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KLMatSJC
Posts: 863
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:16 am

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 10, 2021 1:59 am

iflykpdx wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
Possible. I do think FAT will gain another route to east of the Rockies soon. But I wonder if AA would decide to start FAT-CLT before DL starts FAT-ATL. I believe Fresno is the largest or second largest US airport not served by DL from ATL. AA still has a number of larger airports not served from CLT.


Yeah, I would be pretty surprised to see CLT. AA has tried CLT-SJC a couple of times over the past decade - even during the boom years it didn't last too long. I know it's not apples-to-apples, but if a market that size can't work, I'd be hard pressed to see FAT make it.

That was a really interesting route. Started off as a seasonal A319 (only operated June-September). Over the years, they added months and seats. In the summer of 2018, it was April-November with an A321, before it was abruptly cancelled. Apparently the evening CLT-SJC flights were packed every single night, while the SJC-CLT red-eyes were always empty. A few weird mix which probably led to its downfall. If positive that if it were a morning or afternoon departure from SJC, it would have been fine.
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Long Live the Tulip, Cactus, and Redwood
 
flyfresno
Posts: 1336
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 10, 2021 7:13 pm

KLMatSJC wrote:
iflykpdx wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
Possible. I do think FAT will gain another route to east of the Rockies soon. But I wonder if AA would decide to start FAT-CLT before DL starts FAT-ATL. I believe Fresno is the largest or second largest US airport not served by DL from ATL. AA still has a number of larger airports not served from CLT.


Yeah, I would be pretty surprised to see CLT. AA has tried CLT-SJC a couple of times over the past decade - even during the boom years it didn't last too long. I know it's not apples-to-apples, but if a market that size can't work, I'd be hard pressed to see FAT make it.

That was a really interesting route. Started off as a seasonal A319 (only operated June-September). Over the years, they added months and seats. In the summer of 2018, it was April-November with an A321, before it was abruptly cancelled. Apparently the evening CLT-SJC flights were packed every single night, while the SJC-CLT red-eyes were always empty. A few weird mix which probably led to its downfall. If positive that if it were a morning or afternoon departure from SJC, it would have been fine.


I am actually extremely surprised that there is no SJC-CLT service on American, especially since they would have a monopoly on the route, and CLT is quickly becoming their version of ATL (although, unlike over at DL, AA has a major hub in Texas too). With the continued adds in CLT, I would not be surprised to see it return (along with other West Coast cities like SNA, ONT, and perhaps ABQ and TUS). As for FAT, how many people would have guessed that RNO-CLT would have been added?
 
pmanni1
Posts: 364
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:17 am

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:03 pm

flyfresno wrote:
KLMatSJC wrote:
iflykpdx wrote:

Yeah, I would be pretty surprised to see CLT. AA has tried CLT-SJC a couple of times over the past decade - even during the boom years it didn't last too long. I know it's not apples-to-apples, but if a market that size can't work, I'd be hard pressed to see FAT make it.

That was a really interesting route. Started off as a seasonal A319 (only operated June-September). Over the years, they added months and seats. In the summer of 2018, it was April-November with an A321, before it was abruptly cancelled. Apparently the evening CLT-SJC flights were packed every single night, while the SJC-CLT red-eyes were always empty. A few weird mix which probably led to its downfall. If positive that if it were a morning or afternoon departure from SJC, it would have been fine.


I am actually extremely surprised that there is no SJC-CLT service on American, especially since they would have a monopoly on the route, and CLT is quickly becoming their version of ATL (although, unlike over at DL, AA has a major hub in Texas too). With the continued adds in CLT, I would not be surprised to see it return (along with other West Coast cities like SNA, ONT, and perhaps ABQ and TUS). As for FAT, how many people would have guessed that RNO-CLT would have been added?

I don't see CLT-SJC being added back anytime soon. That would be flying over 2 hubs - PHX & DFW. CLT takes east coast passengers down to Florida and the Carribean while DFW & PHX focus on a lot of Mexican and west coast connections.
 
whatusaid
Posts: 692
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:11 pm

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 6:39 am

G4 extended their schedule tonight and will add a 3rd to LAS on Thursday’s and Sunday’s starting in October. So much for G4 backing down with WN’s arrival. Six a day between the two.
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 5262
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:37 pm

whatusaid wrote:
G4 extended their schedule tonight and will add a 3rd to LAS on Thursday’s and Sunday’s starting in October. So much for G4 backing down with WN’s arrival. Six a day between the two.


It also says something about both FAT and the route if Allegiant thinks they can support additional capacity above their pre-WN, pre-COVID schedule. They aren't just standing their ground but attempting to grow the route.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
flyfresno
Posts: 1336
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:02 pm

FATFlyer wrote:
whatusaid wrote:
G4 extended their schedule tonight and will add a 3rd to LAS on Thursday’s and Sunday’s starting in October. So much for G4 backing down with WN’s arrival. Six a day between the two.


It also says something about both FAT and the route if Allegiant thinks they can support additional capacity above their pre-WN, pre-COVID schedule. They aren't just standing their ground but attempting to grow the route.


It's likely that domestic "leisure" travel will continue to be strong around the US and international leisure will be slower to recover. It's not like there is a ton of international leisure from Fresno, but Vegas has been an extremely strong market (with a faster recovery than many cities) and will probably only continue to grow. Can FAT support 6 per day though, even only on peak days? We will see...

MCO (+SFB) is another strong market...could FAT be part of a future G4 transcon expansion (if it happens)?
 
Wneast
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:14 am

Where could southwest add from Fresno Hawaii less then daily ?
 
flyfresno
Posts: 1336
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:28 pm

Wneast wrote:
Where could southwest add from Fresno Hawaii less then daily ?


FAT-HNL would be the most logical...HNL has the most O&D (although Maui is basically tied with it), and WN offers connecting flights too from there. Something like Mo Th Fr Su service would probably do pretty well...once people start traveling again.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2448
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:32 pm

flyfresno wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Where could southwest add from Fresno Hawaii less then daily ?


FAT-HNL would be the most logical...HNL has the most O&D (although Maui is basically tied with it), and WN offers connecting flights too from there. Something like Mo Th Fr Su service would probably do pretty well...once people start traveling again.

There's a lot of talk about WN doing some Saturday only HNL to west coast flying. FAT has been mentioned as a possible Saturday only market. Most people going on a Hawaiian vacations usually stay Saturday to Saturday.
I can see a HNL-FAT 09:00-17:30. FAT-HNL 18:45-21:45.
While WN tends to run the same Inter island schedule 7 days a week to feed it's SATURDAY only flying they could easily adjust the times earlier into HNL and last flights out of HNL to feed these flights.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
Wneast
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:41 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Where could southwest add from Fresno Hawaii less then daily ?


FAT-HNL would be the most logical...HNL has the most O&D (although Maui is basically tied with it), and WN offers connecting flights too from there. Something like Mo Th Fr Su service would probably do pretty well...once people start traveling again.

There's a lot of talk about WN doing some Saturday only HNL to west coast flying. FAT has been mentioned as a possible Saturday only market. Most people going on a Hawaiian vacations usually stay Saturday to Saturday.
I can see a HNL-FAT 09:00-17:30. FAT-HNL 18:45-21:45.
While WN tends to run the same Inter island schedule 7 days a week to feed it's SATURDAY only flying they could easily adjust the times earlier into HNL and last flights out of HNL to feed these flights.

Flyguy

Where do you think are some other places you could see a Saturday only flight ?
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 5262
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:00 pm

According to Hawaii state visitor arrival statistics, in 2019 (the last normal year) Fresno County sent:
11,666 tourists to Oahu
10,367 tourists to Maui
4,219 tourists to the Big Island
3,606 tourists to Kauai

That does not include the surrounding MSAs such as Visalia/Tulare; Hanford/Lemoore; Merced; etc.

There are of course monthly variations and a summer peak season. Then the market stimulation from a non-stop flight would have to modeled to determine overall impacts.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
flyfresno
Posts: 1336
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:00 pm

Wneast wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
flyfresno wrote:

FAT-HNL would be the most logical...HNL has the most O&D (although Maui is basically tied with it), and WN offers connecting flights too from there. Something like Mo Th Fr Su service would probably do pretty well...once people start traveling again.

There's a lot of talk about WN doing some Saturday only HNL to west coast flying. FAT has been mentioned as a possible Saturday only market. Most people going on a Hawaiian vacations usually stay Saturday to Saturday.
I can see a HNL-FAT 09:00-17:30. FAT-HNL 18:45-21:45.
While WN tends to run the same Inter island schedule 7 days a week to feed it's SATURDAY only flying they could easily adjust the times earlier into HNL and last flights out of HNL to feed these flights.

Flyguy

Where do you think are some other places you could see a Saturday only flight ?


SJD
PVR (less likely but also better than SJD IMHO)
MCO
 
bd777
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:03 pm

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:14 pm

AA will fly to ORD in the late spring and summer, per the linked tweet from @xJonNYC on Twitter. Great add for FAT.

https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1365029234855526413
 
flyfresno
Posts: 1336
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:50 pm

bd777 wrote:
AA will fly to ORD in the late spring and summer, per the linked tweet from @xJonNYC on Twitter. Great add for FAT.

https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1365029234855526413


Wowza, what an add. Also, fulfills FATFlyer's prophecy (are you sure your future self didn't fly a Delorean back with an airline timetable that's allowing you to be so accurate with all your predictions?!). I struck out with CLT, but any service east is good. The next major add that direction almost has to be IAH/HOU, ATL, or MSP. Great news!
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 5262
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 25, 2021 11:21 pm

flyfresno wrote:
bd777 wrote:
AA will fly to ORD in the late spring and summer, per the linked tweet from @xJonNYC on Twitter. Great add for FAT.

https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1365029234855526413


Wowza, what an add. Also, fulfills FATFlyer's prophecy (are you sure your future self didn't fly a Delorean back with an airline timetable that's allowing you to be so accurate with all your predictions?!). I struck out with CLT, but any service east is good. The next major add that direction almost has to be IAH/HOU, ATL, or MSP. Great news!


LOL, I was just coming over to comment about AA to ORD.

Besides increased frequency or equipment upgauges on current routes, keep an eye out for possibly one more new route announcement in March, April, or May. I am hearing different rumors but not sure which it will be or if it will actually happen. I am hearing rumors of something else to the east but also rumors are heating up about something to the west.

FAT is running somewhere in the 60% to 70% of normal passenger counts right now. Much higher percentage of normal than almost every other California airport. I think that is getting noticed along with the idea that WN saw something here.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
flyfresno
Posts: 1336
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:24 am

FATFlyer wrote:
I am hearing rumors of something else to the east but also rumors are heating up about something to the west.


But who? WN, AS, orrrrr....HA?
 
Wneast
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:27 am

flyfresno wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
I am hearing rumors of something else to the east but also rumors are heating up about something to the west.


But who? WN, AS, orrrrr....HA?

Hawaii on a airline and something on southwest?
 
whatusaid
Posts: 692
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:11 pm

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:38 am

Nice AA! Any thoughts on a 175 vs 319? Maybe UA will restart their ORD-FAT and ORD-SBA now?

DL seems to be the quiet carrier as compared to aggressive moves elsewhere to tap into leisure markets. One can hope that a 220 shows up to ATL this summer, but time is running out.

Any rumors on how WN bookings are? G4 is still cheap on most days, but WN is getting pricey to LAS on Thu and Friday. DEN is still a bargain. Given AA isn’t building back capacity to PHX, I’d think PHX remains an option for the next round of WN’s presence here.

As to Hawaii, my bet is on AS. I am well aware that Fresno is lobbing WN big time on Hawaii. First one wins?
 
Wneast
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:57 am

whatusaid wrote:
Nice AA! Any thoughts on a 175 vs 319? Maybe UA will restart their ORD-FAT and ORD-SBA now?

DL seems to be the quiet carrier as compared to aggressive moves elsewhere to tap into leisure markets. One can hope that a 220 shows up to ATL this summer, but time is running out.

Any rumors on how WN bookings are? G4 is still cheap on most days, but WN is getting pricey to LAS on Thu and Friday. DEN is still a bargain. Given AA isn’t building back capacity to PHX, I’d think PHX remains an option for the next round of WN’s presence here.

As to Hawaii, my bet is on AS. I am well aware that Fresno is lobbing WN big time on Hawaii. First one wins?
we shall who makes it to the Hawaii market first
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 5262
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 26, 2021 2:23 am

whatusaid wrote:
Nice AA! Any thoughts on a 175 vs 319? Maybe UA will restart their ORD-FAT and ORD-SBA now?

DL seems to be the quiet carrier as compared to aggressive moves elsewhere to tap into leisure markets. One can hope that a 220 shows up to ATL this summer, but time is running out.

Any rumors on how WN bookings are? G4 is still cheap on most days, but WN is getting pricey to LAS on Thu and Friday. DEN is still a bargain. Given AA isn’t building back capacity to PHX, I’d think PHX remains an option for the next round of WN’s presence here.

As to Hawaii, my bet is on AS. I am well aware that Fresno is lobbing WN big time on Hawaii. First one wins?


My first thought for AA to ORD was to expect a 175. If it is mainline I will be pleasantly surprised.

I would think UA has to take a closer look at a number of things. Besides restarting FAT-ORD they need to reconsider the other 3 routes being CR2s. I used to pick on DL about the CR2s but now it is UA that needs the push to upgauge.

I'm not sure if DL would run a 220 on FAT-ATL this year. Do they need those for other routes that are currently downsized?

The priciest LAS fares on WN I am seeing are on the LAS-FAT leg on Sundays.

I don't know if Hawaii will happen this summer for sure or not. I do see it as a first mover situation, I can't see 2 carriers on it. Either WN or AS are the likely carrier. My preference would be AS since I try to sit upfront on longer flights. But I can also see that others would prefer WN even just due to the 2 free bags.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
Wneast
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 26, 2021 2:30 am

FATFlyer wrote:
whatusaid wrote:
Nice AA! Any thoughts on a 175 vs 319? Maybe UA will restart their ORD-FAT and ORD-SBA now?

DL seems to be the quiet carrier as compared to aggressive moves elsewhere to tap into leisure markets. One can hope that a 220 shows up to ATL this summer, but time is running out.

Any rumors on how WN bookings are? G4 is still cheap on most days, but WN is getting pricey to LAS on Thu and Friday. DEN is still a bargain. Given AA isn’t building back capacity to PHX, I’d think PHX remains an option for the next round of WN’s presence here.

As to Hawaii, my bet is on AS. I am well aware that Fresno is lobbing WN big time on Hawaii. First one wins?


My first thought for AA to ORD was to expect a 175. If it is mainline I will be pleasantly surprised.

I would think UA has to take a closer look at a number of things. Besides restarting FAT-ORD they need to reconsider the other 3 routes being CR2s. I used to pick on DL about the CR2s but now it is UA that needs the push to upgauge.

I'm not sure if DL would run a 220 on FAT-ATL this year. Do they need those for other routes that are currently downsized?

The priciest LAS fares on WN I am seeing are on the LAS-FAT leg on Sundays.

I don't know if Hawaii will happen this summer for sure or not. I do see it as a first mover situation, I can't see 2 carriers on it. Either WN or AS are the likely carrier. My preference would be AS since I try to sit upfront on longer flights. But I can also see that others would prefer WN even just due to the 2 free bags.

Is there any other adds form Southwest besides maybe Hawaii ?
 
flyfresno
Posts: 1336
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 26, 2021 2:33 am

FATFlyer wrote:
I'm not sure if DL would run a 220 on FAT-ATL this year. Do they need those for other routes that are currently downsized?


A 175 to MSP seems like the safer bet, but DL also does not seem to use the 175 for longer routes nearly as much as AA and UA do.
 
flyfresno
Posts: 1336
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 26, 2021 2:35 am

Wneast wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
whatusaid wrote:
Nice AA! Any thoughts on a 175 vs 319? Maybe UA will restart their ORD-FAT and ORD-SBA now?

DL seems to be the quiet carrier as compared to aggressive moves elsewhere to tap into leisure markets. One can hope that a 220 shows up to ATL this summer, but time is running out.

Any rumors on how WN bookings are? G4 is still cheap on most days, but WN is getting pricey to LAS on Thu and Friday. DEN is still a bargain. Given AA isn’t building back capacity to PHX, I’d think PHX remains an option for the next round of WN’s presence here.

As to Hawaii, my bet is on AS. I am well aware that Fresno is lobbing WN big time on Hawaii. First one wins?


My first thought for AA to ORD was to expect a 175. If it is mainline I will be pleasantly surprised.

I would think UA has to take a closer look at a number of things. Besides restarting FAT-ORD they need to reconsider the other 3 routes being CR2s. I used to pick on DL about the CR2s but now it is UA that needs the push to upgauge.

I'm not sure if DL would run a 220 on FAT-ATL this year. Do they need those for other routes that are currently downsized?

The priciest LAS fares on WN I am seeing are on the LAS-FAT leg on Sundays.

I don't know if Hawaii will happen this summer for sure or not. I do see it as a first mover situation, I can't see 2 carriers on it. Either WN or AS are the likely carrier. My preference would be AS since I try to sit upfront on longer flights. But I can also see that others would prefer WN even just due to the 2 free bags.

Is there any other adds form Southwest besides maybe Hawaii ?


I think the top priority would be another DEN. Aside from that, PHX, OAK, SAN, HOU all seem like possibilities...
 
Wneast
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 26, 2021 2:39 am

flyfresno wrote:
Wneast wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:

My first thought for AA to ORD was to expect a 175. If it is mainline I will be pleasantly surprised.

I would think UA has to take a closer look at a number of things. Besides restarting FAT-ORD they need to reconsider the other 3 routes being CR2s. I used to pick on DL about the CR2s but now it is UA that needs the push to upgauge.

I'm not sure if DL would run a 220 on FAT-ATL this year. Do they need those for other routes that are currently downsized?

The priciest LAS fares on WN I am seeing are on the LAS-FAT leg on Sundays.

I don't know if Hawaii will happen this summer for sure or not. I do see it as a first mover situation, I can't see 2 carriers on it. Either WN or AS are the likely carrier. My preference would be AS since I try to sit upfront on longer flights. But I can also see that others would prefer WN even just due to the 2 free bags.

Is there any other adds form Southwest besides maybe Hawaii ?


I think the top priority would be another DEN. Aside from that, PHX, OAK, SAN, HOU all seem like possibilities...
if they added those and a Hawaii flight that would be pretty big
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3637
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:36 pm

whatusaid wrote:
Nice AA! Any thoughts on a 175 vs 319?


AA's ORD-FAT is a daily seasonal A319: https://www.fresnobee.com/news/business ... 48248.html
Leaving the forums. You may know where to find me.
 
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ArcticSEA
Posts: 371
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:04 pm

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:41 pm

flyfresno wrote:
Something like Mo Th Fr Su service would probably do pretty well...once people start traveling again.

Over a million people are traveling per day.
Build it and they will come.
PNW-based private pilot and engineer. #fatpnw
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 5262
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:48 pm

AA's schedule starting June 3 on an A319:
FAT-ORD
dep 6:35am arr 12:32pm
ORD-FAT
dep 8:20pm arr 10:47pm

UA restarts FAT-ORD on April 1 on an A319 with a similar schedule:
FAT-ORD
dep 7:20am arr 1:20pm
ORD-FAT
dep 7:45pm arr 10:27pm
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
flyfresno
Posts: 1336
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:08 pm

FATFlyer wrote:
AA's schedule starting June 3 on an A319:
FAT-ORD
dep 6:35am arr 12:32pm
ORD-FAT
dep 8:20pm arr 10:47pm

UA restarts FAT-ORD on April 1 on an A319 with a similar schedule:
FAT-ORD
dep 7:20am arr 1:20pm
ORD-FAT
dep 7:45pm arr 10:27pm


Interesting that AA didn't go with a different time (as in a redeye or a mid-day departure going and then a late morning flight coming back...could even have had the plane go ORD-FAT-PHX in the morning, then had another aircraft do PHX-FAT-ORD in the evening as a redeye). Also, interesting that UA's ORD-FAT is planned 15 minutes longer. Wonder if that's due to 7:45 not being as busy as 7:20 in ORD, the flight being planned faster, or just inexperience with the route...
 
dfwjim1
Posts: 2561
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:46 pm

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:48 am

flyfresno wrote:
Wneast wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:

My first thought for AA to ORD was to expect a 175. If it is mainline I will be pleasantly surprised.

I would think UA has to take a closer look at a number of things. Besides restarting FAT-ORD they need to reconsider the other 3 routes being CR2s. I used to pick on DL about the CR2s but now it is UA that needs the push to upgauge.

I'm not sure if DL would run a 220 on FAT-ATL this year. Do they need those for other routes that are currently downsized?

The priciest LAS fares on WN I am seeing are on the LAS-FAT leg on Sundays.

I don't know if Hawaii will happen this summer for sure or not. I do see it as a first mover situation, I can't see 2 carriers on it. Either WN or AS are the likely carrier. My preference would be AS since I try to sit upfront on longer flights. But I can also see that others would prefer WN even just due to the 2 free bags.

Is there any other adds form Southwest besides maybe Hawaii ?


I think the top priority would be another DEN. Aside from that, PHX, OAK, SAN, HOU all seem like possibilities...


How about FAT to/from DAL?
 
Wneast
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:11 am

dfwjim1 wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Is there any other adds form Southwest besides maybe Hawaii ?


I think the top priority would be another DEN. Aside from that, PHX, OAK, SAN, HOU all seem like possibilities...


How about FAT to/from DAL?

There or Houston I feel like ?
 
flyfresno
Posts: 1336
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:57 pm

Wneast wrote:
dfwjim1 wrote:
flyfresno wrote:

I think the top priority would be another DEN. Aside from that, PHX, OAK, SAN, HOU all seem like possibilities...


How about FAT to/from DAL?

There or Houston I feel like ?


HOU seems like a better bet for two reasons:

1) There is currently no service to the greater Houston area, while American has up to 4X per day to DFW. I am pretty sure Houston is in the top 5 (or just outside of it) of domestic cities for O&D that are not served non-stop.
2) There are major incentives for service to HOU/IAH, including up to $300K in marketing help and waived landing fees for 2 years. DAL would qualify for lesser incentives.

Ironically, HOU service might also attract oil traffic headed to Bakersfield. I say ironically because UA used to fly CR7s to IAH from BFL and people used to drive from Fresno to take those flights.
 
WN732
Posts: 996
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:27 am

Wneast wrote:
dfwjim1 wrote:
flyfresno wrote:

I think the top priority would be another DEN. Aside from that, PHX, OAK, SAN, HOU all seem like possibilities...


How about FAT to/from DAL?

There or Houston I feel like ?


That would allow every southeast Texas city and the South to have a one stop connection through HOU. Anything northwest of AUS can go through LAS or DEN. As it stands now only AA can provide that kind of connectivity from the southern states. Before that happens though, I'd guess another short haul like PHX, or LAX/SAN would be added.
 
Wneast
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:38 am

WN732 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
dfwjim1 wrote:

How about FAT to/from DAL?

There or Houston I feel like ?


That would allow every southeast Texas city and the South to have a one stop connection through HOU. Anything northwest of AUS can go through LAS or DEN. As it stands now only AA can provide that kind of connectivity from the southern states. Before that happens though, I'd guess another short haul like PHX, or LAX/SAN would be added.

Would a bwi flight ever be in the cards ?
 
flyfresno
Posts: 1336
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:03 pm

Wneast wrote:
WN732 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
There or Houston I feel like ?


That would allow every southeast Texas city and the South to have a one stop connection through HOU. Anything northwest of AUS can go through LAS or DEN. As it stands now only AA can provide that kind of connectivity from the southern states. Before that happens though, I'd guess another short haul like PHX, or LAX/SAN would be added.

Would a bwi flight ever be in the cards ?


Despite Washington being a fairly high O&D market from FAT, it's still not high enough for a flight by itself, so I would be super surprised to see BWI any time soon. I feel like BWI flights would need to be a large % O&D to be justifiable since they don't add a ton of connecting markets that can't be reached from DEN (and MDW, which is more likely to be added first). I just can't see WN prioritizing BWI when there are so many other focus cities in the mountain/central part of the country that would offer more connecting opportunities. If anyone were to offer service to Washington, it would probably be UA to IAD, and being as SMF can barely hold on to a flight 9 months of the year as the capital, I don't think that's anywhere near being a possibility either. The only NE city I see happening in the next 10 years is JFK on JetBlue, and I'm not holding my breath for that.
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 5262
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:41 am

The Boyd Group's Monday Insight blog was posted this afternoon.

Boyd predicts FAT passenger counts will grow this year by 20% over 2019. In other words Fresno will see both a full recovery plus large new growth this year.

FAT's predicted growth (if it occurs) is the 9th largest forecast percentage growth in the US this year. It is also the largest forecast percentage growth by Boyd of any California airport in 2021 including at the other new WN airports in the state of PSP and SBA.

https://www.aviationplanning.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Top-25-Fastest.png
https://www.aviationplanning.com/monday-flash-2-2-2/
Last edited by FATFlyer on Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
Wneast
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:47 am

Southwest is updating there schedule on April 22 hopefully that means a Hawaii flight from them or more flights elsewhere
 
Wneast
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:52 am

To Fresno
 
flyfresno
Posts: 1336
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:44 pm

FATFlyer wrote:
The Boyd Group's Monday Insight blog was posted this afternoon.

Boyd predicts FAT passenger counts will grow this year by 20% over 2019. In other words Fresno will see both a full recovery plus large new growth this year.

FAT's predicted growth (if it occurs) is the 9th largest forecast percentage growth in the US this year. It is also the largest forecast percentage growth by Boyd of any California airport in 2021 including at the other new WN airports in the state of PSP and SBA.

https://www.aviationplanning.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Top-25-Fastest.png
https://www.aviationplanning.com/monday-flash-2-2-2/


Thanks for posting.

The predicted 1.1 million enplanements in 2021 is above the 2031 forecast and close to "PAL-2" in the master plan. That would mean that the airport should be building the entire new concourse (including a third gate) in the upcoming expansion.
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 5262
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:37 pm

flyfresno wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
The Boyd Group's Monday Insight blog was posted this afternoon.

Boyd predicts FAT passenger counts will grow this year by 20% over 2019. In other words Fresno will see both a full recovery plus large new growth this year.

FAT's predicted growth (if it occurs) is the 9th largest forecast percentage growth in the US this year. It is also the largest forecast percentage growth by Boyd of any California airport in 2021 including at the other new WN airports in the state of PSP and SBA.

https://www.aviationplanning.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Top-25-Fastest.png
https://www.aviationplanning.com/monday-flash-2-2-2/


Thanks for posting.

The predicted 1.1 million enplanements in 2021 is above the 2031 forecast and close to "PAL-2" in the master plan. That would mean that the airport should be building the entire new concourse (including a third gate) in the upcoming expansion.


Boyd predicts 1.19 million in 2021. The Passenger Activity Level 2 marker for facilities construction in the 2018 Master Plan is 1.24 million. Boyd is forecasting just under that mark by only 50,000-some enplanements.

Interesting about PAL2 in the Master Plan. The baseline forecast called for hitting PAL2's 1.24 million enplanement mark in 2036, so growth is much faster than that. The Master Plan also had a high growth scenario that if it occurred would have the 1.24 million enplanements in 2021. Looks like the airport is currently on that high growth scenario curve.

I doubt the new concourse project can be reworked for an additional new gate. I still believe a quick capacity increase could be done by giving the "B" gates their own boarding bridges. Instead of 14B and 15B being primarily RON spots sharing boarding bridges with other gates, adding bridges would make those spots more useful during peak daytime periods.

Then the high growth passenger counts also mean another look at rental car storage space, concessions, parking, etc. Several projects may need to be considered on an accelerated timeline in the next few years.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
flyfresno
Posts: 1336
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:05 pm

FATFlyer wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
The Boyd Group's Monday Insight blog was posted this afternoon.

Boyd predicts FAT passenger counts will grow this year by 20% over 2019. In other words Fresno will see both a full recovery plus large new growth this year.

FAT's predicted growth (if it occurs) is the 9th largest forecast percentage growth in the US this year. It is also the largest forecast percentage growth by Boyd of any California airport in 2021 including at the other new WN airports in the state of PSP and SBA.

https://www.aviationplanning.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Top-25-Fastest.png
https://www.aviationplanning.com/monday-flash-2-2-2/


Thanks for posting.

The predicted 1.1 million enplanements in 2021 is above the 2031 forecast and close to "PAL-2" in the master plan. That would mean that the airport should be building the entire new concourse (including a third gate) in the upcoming expansion.


Boyd predicts 1.19 million in 2021. The Passenger Activity Level 2 marker for facilities construction in the 2018 Master Plan is 1.24 million. Boyd is forecasting just under that mark by only 50,000-some enplanements.

Interesting about PAL2 in the Master Plan. The baseline forecast called for hitting PAL2's 1.24 million enplanement mark in 2036, so growth is much faster than that. The Master Plan also had a high growth scenario that if it occurred would have the 1.24 million enplanements in 2021. Looks like the airport is currently on that high growth scenario curve.

I doubt the new concourse project can be reworked for an additional new gate. I still believe a quick capacity increase could be done by giving the "B" gates their own boarding bridges. Instead of 14B and 15B being primarily RON spots sharing boarding bridges with other gates, adding bridges would make those spots more useful during peak daytime periods.

Then the high growth passenger counts also mean another look at rental car storage space, concessions, parking, etc. Several projects may need to be considered on an accelerated timeline in the next few years.


Those numbers put FAT in the range of Pensacola (10 jetways), Madison (11 jetways), and Knoxville (12 jetways). FAT currently has 7 jetways, of course, and the expansion will bring that to 9.

I'm curious about 14B and 15B...is the terminal designed for jetways in those locations? 15B appears "marked" as a parking spot with the entire envelope painted, but 14B only has a line (actually two lines). Is there infrastructure in the terminal to accommodate jetways (I've never noticed)? Adding those two gates would bring FAT to 11, which would appear to be enough to meet the numbers predicted in this report...but even that might not be enough by the time the planned expansion opens if record growth continues.

Rental car and baggage claim space will be interesting. I wonder if the counters and parking would ever be moved to a future garage expansion (as is standard in many airports these days) and baggage claim expanded that direction?
 
williaminsd
Posts: 399
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:52 pm

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:18 pm

FATFlyer wrote:
The Boyd Group's Monday Insight blog was posted this afternoon.

Boyd predicts FAT passenger counts will grow this year by 20% over 2019. In other words Fresno will see both a full recovery plus large new growth this year.

FAT's predicted growth (if it occurs) is the 9th largest forecast percentage growth in the US this year. It is also the largest forecast percentage growth by Boyd of any California airport in 2021 including at the other new WN airports in the state of PSP and SBA.

https://www.aviationplanning.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Top-25-Fastest.png
https://www.aviationplanning.com/monday-flash-2-2-2/


This doesn't surprise me in the least. As you may recall, I had thought, pre-covid, that 2020 was going to be a huge year for FAT. This spectacular, projected growth rate is not merely a result of covid baselines, but also because FAT was already positioned to take its place among California's fastest growing airports.

And because covid has forced airlines to break from traditional new-service models, that growth may enjoy even greater acceleration.

If the economy stays strong and energy costs remain low, look for the next two years to be among the most exciting in FAT history...
In the land of lies, telling the truth is a crime...
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 5262
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:44 pm

flyfresno wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
flyfresno wrote:

Thanks for posting.

The predicted 1.1 million enplanements in 2021 is above the 2031 forecast and close to "PAL-2" in the master plan. That would mean that the airport should be building the entire new concourse (including a third gate) in the upcoming expansion.


Boyd predicts 1.19 million in 2021. The Passenger Activity Level 2 marker for facilities construction in the 2018 Master Plan is 1.24 million. Boyd is forecasting just under that mark by only 50,000-some enplanements.

Interesting about PAL2 in the Master Plan. The baseline forecast called for hitting PAL2's 1.24 million enplanement mark in 2036, so growth is much faster than that. The Master Plan also had a high growth scenario that if it occurred would have the 1.24 million enplanements in 2021. Looks like the airport is currently on that high growth scenario curve.

I doubt the new concourse project can be reworked for an additional new gate. I still believe a quick capacity increase could be done by giving the "B" gates their own boarding bridges. Instead of 14B and 15B being primarily RON spots sharing boarding bridges with other gates, adding bridges would make those spots more useful during peak daytime periods.

Then the high growth passenger counts also mean another look at rental car storage space, concessions, parking, etc. Several projects may need to be considered on an accelerated timeline in the next few years.


Those numbers put FAT in the range of Pensacola (10 jetways), Madison (11 jetways), and Knoxville (12 jetways). FAT currently has 7 jetways, of course, and the expansion will bring that to 9.

I'm curious about 14B and 15B...is the terminal designed for jetways in those locations? 15B appears "marked" as a parking spot with the entire envelope painted, but 14B only has a line (actually two lines). Is there infrastructure in the terminal to accommodate jetways (I've never noticed)? Adding those two gates would bring FAT to 11, which would appear to be enough to meet the numbers predicted in this report...but even that might not be enough by the time the planned expansion opens if record growth continues.

Rental car and baggage claim space will be interesting. I wonder if the counters and parking would ever be moved to a future garage expansion (as is standard in many airports these days) and baggage claim expanded that direction?


15B is currently a RON spot but I have seen the 17 jetway swung over for shared use at 15B.

I've tried to visualize how 15B could be set up inside the terminal. I think it can be done although it would create a tight passenger movement/seating area in that corner. But I don't think the boarding doors close together would be as bad as what I've seen elsewhere such as EWR. Not a great situation but better than ground boarding down the interior terminal stairs or sharing a bridge with gate 17 in order to use 15B for more than for RON. I guess adding a simple door to an exterior walkway ramp weaving back and forth down to 15B for ground boarding is another option besides stair use but not as passenger friendly as figuring out how to add a bridge.

I've noticed the 14B markings also. Horizon used to ground board at 14B though. On the ramp the one potential issue for 14B I consider is a possible conflict since Taxiway A, B5, and B6 all converge with the terminal ramp in that location. That area is in the master plan for a redesign/rebuild of the taxiways. I don't know how the current ramp/taxiway configuration limits the use of 14B but it is considered a potential RON spot now.

Long term talk was for rental car counters to some day move to the new parking garage along with the ready lot. That frees up space in baggage claim as well as allows for an additional concourse wing where the current rental ready lot sits. But giving up part of that new garage capacity probably means a 2nd garage would need to be built first. Should have taken this garage up another level or two to allow future rental car use.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2448
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:59 pm

Anyone know what gate WN will be using at FAT?

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 5262
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:56 am

wnflyguy wrote:
Anyone know what gate WN will be using at FAT?

Flyguy


I do not know for sure. I have heard rumor of either gate 15 or gate 17.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
flyfresno
Posts: 1336
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 02, 2021 7:40 pm

flyfresno wrote:
Wneast wrote:
WN732 wrote:

That would allow every southeast Texas city and the South to have a one stop connection through HOU. Anything northwest of AUS can go through LAS or DEN. As it stands now only AA can provide that kind of connectivity from the southern states. Before that happens though, I'd guess another short haul like PHX, or LAX/SAN would be added.

Would a bwi flight ever be in the cards ?


Despite Washington being a fairly high O&D market from FAT, it's still not high enough for a flight by itself, so I would be super surprised to see BWI any time soon. I feel like BWI flights would need to be a large % O&D to be justifiable since they don't add a ton of connecting markets that can't be reached from DEN (and MDW, which is more likely to be added first). I just can't see WN prioritizing BWI when there are so many other focus cities in the mountain/central part of the country that would offer more connecting opportunities. If anyone were to offer service to Washington, it would probably be UA to IAD, and being as SMF can barely hold on to a flight 9 months of the year as the capital, I don't think that's anywhere near being a possibility either. The only NE city I see happening in the next 10 years is JFK on JetBlue, and I'm not holding my breath for that.


Speaking of FAT's chances of B6 flying to JFK...

Just announced BOI-JFK will be operated seasonally this summer, 4X per week.

BOI had approx 2 million enplanements in 2019, FAT had 984K (including int'l).

In 2021, BOI was predicted to grow to 2.2 million enplanements according to the report listed above, FAT is predicted to grow to 1.2 million.

RNO gained JFK service (in 2015) at around the 1.8 million enplanement level (although there's arguably more of a tourist draw to RNO).

About 5 years of the same level of growth after 2021 (20% YoY) would bring FAT to the same level as BOI's 2021 predicted level (actually a little above it). 4 years would bring it above RNO's 2015 level.

However, that level of growth YoY seems a bit unrealistic. If FAT can keep up 15-20% growth for that period, we could see B6 before 2028. 10 years, a bit after 2030, might be a bit more realistic though, we will see...
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 5262
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:41 am

FAT posted the December and full year 2020 passenger totals:
https://flyfresno.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/December-2020.pdf

2020 Enplanements vs 2019
Domestic - 2020 = 415,234 vs 2019 = 853,287 -51.34%
International - 2020 = 80,266 vs 2019 = 131,652 -39.03%
TOTAL ENPLANEMENTS: 2020 = 495,500 vs 2019 = 984,939 -49.69%

2020 Deplanements vs 2019
Domestic - 2020 = 413,029 vs 2019 = 849,728 -51.39%
International - 2020 = 82,098 vs 2019 = 129,822 -36.76%
TOTAL DEPLANEMENTS: 2020 = 495,127 vs 2019 = 979,550 -49.45%

Fresno was down about -49.57% in total O&D for the year.

That was overall better (whatever that means for last year) than other California airports in 2020.

SFO was -71.4%; LGB was -71%; SJC was -69.9%; LAX was -67.3%; OAK was -65.5%; SNA was -64.4%; SAN -63.4%; STS was -60%; SMF was -57.6%; ONT was -54.5%
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
Wneast
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:44 am

FATFlyer wrote:
FAT posted the December and full year 2020 passenger totals:
https://flyfresno.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/December-2020.pdf

2020 Enplanements vs 2019
Domestic - 2020 = 415,234 vs 2019 = 853,287 -51.34%
International - 2020 = 80,266 vs 2019 = 131,652 -39.03%
TOTAL ENPLANEMENTS: 2020 = 495,500 vs 2019 = 984,939 -49.69%

2020 Deplanements vs 2019
Domestic - 2020 = 413,029 vs 2019 = 849,728 -51.39%
International - 2020 = 82,098 vs 2019 = 129,822 -36.76%
TOTAL DEPLANEMENTS: 2020 = 495,127 vs 2019 = 979,550 -49.45%

Fresno was down about -49.57% in total O&D for the year.

That was overall better (whatever that means for last year) than other California airports in 2020.

SFO was -71.4%; LGB was -71%; SJC was -69.9%; LAX was -67.3%; OAK was -65.5%; SNA was -64.4%; SAN -63.4%; STS was -60%; SMF was -57.6%; ONT was -54.5%

I can’t wait for this year to be a ground breaking year for new routes
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 5262
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 08, 2021 6:39 pm

FAT's growth has a good mention at the SF Chronicle's sfgate.com travel section today. Includes an explanation from the Boyd Group about their growth forecast.

While airports in big cities are seeing cutbacks, some smaller California airports are welcoming new airlines and routes.

These airports are located near national parks, beaches and open space, but the surrounding communities have also turned into viable places to live for big city expats who are now working remotely.

“The airlines have been in the mode of regrouping, figuring out how to capture back market share, and redeploying resources into places where they can really grow,” said Kevin Meikle, the airport director at Fresno-Yosemite International Airport. “I think we are seeing that.”

Delta Air Lines, Alaska Airlines, Mexico’s low-cost carrier Volaris, and American Airlines have all added routes out of Fresno in the past six months, but the pièce de résistance for Meikle is new flights from Southwest Airlines, which will launch non-stops to Denver and Las Vegas in April.

“We knew it would eventually happen,” he said. “They pulled the trigger."

Southwest’s April expansion also includes new flights to Santa Barbara. It began operating flights to Palm Springs in November as part of the airline’s overall drive to break into California’s smaller airports and boost its presence in the state.

Boyd’s forecast for Fresno shows the airport recovering to 20 percent above its pre-pandemic passenger count by the end of 2021. Palm Springs could see a growth rate of 5.4 percent.

“We have a migration of business that’s dribs and drabs to secondary cities and there’s also going to be more demand for service to vacation destinations,” Boyd said.
https://www.sfgate.com/travel/article/California-airports-vacation-destinations-SFO-16006333.php

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
AirBrian
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 6:08 pm

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:04 pm

Hey guys. First of all let me say as a 42 year lifelong native of Fresno and huge lover of aviation, you guys make this thread awesome. My question is, we know Southwest is coming and they released the initial schedule. Last night my mom says oh Southwest is adding Chicago also. I looked all over and don't see this. I'm thinking she is confusing the new american ord service. Anyone else hear anything about Southwest from FAT to ORD? Also any other rumors of new cities or airlines we might be hearing soon? Thanks for keeping this thread awesome guys!
 
timberwolf24
Posts: 543
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2001 8:38 am

Re: Fresno Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:36 pm

AirBrian wrote:
Hey guys. First of all let me say as a 42 year lifelong native of Fresno and huge lover of aviation, you guys make this thread awesome. My question is, we know Southwest is coming and they released the initial schedule. Last night my mom says oh Southwest is adding Chicago also. I looked all over and don't see this. I'm thinking she is confusing the new american ord service. Anyone else hear anything about Southwest from FAT to ORD? Also any other rumors of new cities or airlines we might be hearing soon? Thanks for keeping this thread awesome guys!


I haven't heard or seen anything with WN adding Fresno to Chicago. If they were to add it, it would be a FAT-MDW, not ORD.
Living in LA, ORD/MDW will always be home!
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