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Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:44 pm

TWA302 wrote:
@jshank83 on your site you have a link to O&D sheet. Is that available? It isn't clickable. https://aviationstl.wixsite.com/website/statistics


Yea I haven’t been good about updating the site. Maybe this will motive me to update it

Here.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... ZM1KyFVO8/
 
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TWA302
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:45 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
TWA302 wrote:
@jshank83 on your site you have a link to O&D sheet. Is that available? It isn't clickable. https://aviationstl.wixsite.com/website/statistics


Yea I haven’t been good about updating the site. Maybe this will motive me to update it

Here.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... ZM1KyFVO8/


HA! Thanks
 
bretonrlong
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:49 pm

jplatts wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
From the Cincy Biz Journal.

When it comes to the rest of Delta’s network at CVG, officials previously projected service to Toronto may return by the fall, with San Francisco, Kansas City, St. Louis and Hartford, Conn., returning in 2022.

I figured STL/MCI/BDL were gone for good, but maybe not?


Here were the PDEW's and average fares of STL-CVG/DSM/LIT/TUL/ICT in 2019:
STL-CVG - PDEW of 45 in 2019, average fare of $252.70
STL-DSM - PDEW of 43 in 2019, average fare of $159.84
STL-LIT - PDEW of 34 in 2019, average fare of $168.15
STL-TUL - PDEW of 38 in 2019, average fare of $200.44
STL-ICT - PDEW of 43 in 2019, average fare of $163.67

Approximately 28.91% of the passengers traveling between STL and CVG were connecting on airlines other than DL in 2019.

It probably makes more sense for WN to add CVG-STL nonstop service than for DL to re-add CVG-STL nonstop service with
(a) WN having connecting feed on the STL in addition to O&D to support CVG-STL nonstop service on WN,
(b) the significant FF base that WN has in the STL market and other markets west of the Mississippi River to support CVG-STL nonstop service,
(c) WN being 5x bigger in the STL market than DL in 2019,
(d) DL not currently serving its BOS, LAX, and SEA hubs nonstop from STL whereas WN serves BOS, LAX, and SEA nonstop from STL,
(e) STL-CVG having higher PDEW's than STL-DSM/LIT/TUL/ICT in 2019, and
(f) WN likely to charge lower fares on STL-CVG nonstop flights than DL would if WN adds STL-CVG nonstop service.


Makes sense why you are using 2019's data as its a lot closer to reality than using 2020's data.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:46 am

TWA302 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
TWA302 wrote:
@jshank83 on your site you have a link to O&D sheet. Is that available? It isn't clickable. https://aviationstl.wixsite.com/website/statistics


Yea I haven’t been good about updating the site. Maybe this will motive me to update it

Here.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... ZM1KyFVO8/


HA! Thanks


Stats page is updated now, or should be.

I need to update destinations but I'll see if any new ones come out tomorrow before I do.
 
pmanni1
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:48 am

Looks like WN is adding SJU on the new extension. That's the only new route I'm seeing so far.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:04 pm

Ind/bdl are gone completely now
 
reednavy
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:23 pm

AA picks up AUS-STL on September 8th, going 2x daily on Oct 7th. No idea on the equipment yet.

https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2021/American-Gives-Customers-More-Choices-with-More-Flights-from-Austin-NET-RTS-06/default.aspx
 
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TWA302
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:43 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
Looks like WN is adding SJU on the new extension. That's the only new route I'm seeing so far.


So you are seeing am SJU flight from STL? That would be great!
 
pmanni1
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:49 pm

TWA302 wrote:
pmanni1 wrote:
Looks like WN is adding SJU on the new extension. That's the only new route I'm seeing so far.


So you are seeing am SJU flight from STL? That would be great!

Yes, Sat only beginning Nov 13. It runs through the end of the extension to Jan 1st. Not sure if it's year round or seasonal.
 
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TWA302
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:10 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
TWA302 wrote:
pmanni1 wrote:
Looks like WN is adding SJU on the new extension. That's the only new route I'm seeing so far.


So you are seeing am SJU flight from STL? That would be great!

Yes, Sat only beginning Nov 13. It runs through the end of the extension to Jan 1st. Not sure if it's year round or seasonal.


Great news! :bouncy:
 
maps4ltd
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:18 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Ind/bdl are gone completely now


Unfortunate. Nice to see the SJU flight though.
All opinions expressed herein are mine and do not represent the views of Cape Air
 
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TWA302
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:46 pm

maps4ltd wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Ind/bdl are gone completely now


Unfortunate. Nice to see the SJU flight though.


I thought BDL was a great route especially for the inbound legs? I guess they know more than we do on a.net :stirthepot:
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:06 pm

TWA302 wrote:
maps4ltd wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Ind/bdl are gone completely now


Unfortunate. Nice to see the SJU flight though.


I thought BDL was a great route especially for the inbound legs? I guess they know more than we do on a.net :stirthepot:


I would guess it comes back next summer. Its PDEW was pretty high precovid but I am sure it needs business to be back in force (same with IND).

Also noticed SEA is gone in this extension (unless it still is around the holidays) that one surprises me. PDX goes to Sunday only. No SFO (unless it also is around holidays). Panhandle all drops off and MYR/SAV.
 
maps4ltd
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:24 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
TWA302 wrote:
maps4ltd wrote:

Unfortunate. Nice to see the SJU flight though.


I thought BDL was a great route especially for the inbound legs? I guess they know more than we do on a.net :stirthepot:


I would guess it comes back next summer. Its PDEW was pretty high precovid but I am sure it needs business to be back in force (same with IND).

Also noticed SEA is gone in this extension (unless it still is around the holidays) that one surprises me. PDX goes to Sunday only. No SFO (unless it also is around holidays). Panhandle all drops off and MYR/SAV.

Yeah. I removed BDL/IND from the Wikipedia page. I also removed PBI (which hasn't been around since 2018) and ORF (which was one of the routes WN trialed for a few weeks last summer and isn't returning).
All opinions expressed herein are mine and do not represent the views of Cape Air
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:49 am

Jshank83 wrote:
TWA302 wrote:
maps4ltd wrote:

Unfortunate. Nice to see the SJU flight though.


I thought BDL was a great route especially for the inbound legs? I guess they know more than we do on a.net :stirthepot:


I would guess it comes back next summer. Its PDEW was pretty high precovid but I am sure it needs business to be back in force (same with IND).

Also noticed SEA is gone in this extension (unless it still is around the holidays) that one surprises me. PDX goes to Sunday only. No SFO (unless it also is around holidays). Panhandle all drops off and MYR/SAV.


SFO/SEA do run around holidays.
 
pmanni1
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:24 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
TWA302 wrote:
maps4ltd wrote:

Unfortunate. Nice to see the SJU flight though.


I thought BDL was a great route especially for the inbound legs? I guess they know more than we do on a.net :stirthepot:


I would guess it comes back next summer. Its PDEW was pretty high precovid but I am sure it needs business to be back in force (same with IND).

Also noticed SEA is gone in this extension (unless it still is around the holidays) that one surprises me. PDX goes to Sunday only. No SFO (unless it also is around holidays). Panhandle all drops off and MYR/SAV.

I'm seeing SEA & PDX running daily until Nov 6 & 7. Both return for a few random dates here and there for the holidays.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:00 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
TWA302 wrote:

I thought BDL was a great route especially for the inbound legs? I guess they know more than we do on a.net :stirthepot:


I would guess it comes back next summer. Its PDEW was pretty high precovid but I am sure it needs business to be back in force (same with IND).

Also noticed SEA is gone in this extension (unless it still is around the holidays) that one surprises me. PDX goes to Sunday only. No SFO (unless it also is around holidays). Panhandle all drops off and MYR/SAV.

I'm seeing SEA & PDX running daily until Nov 6 & 7. Both return for a few random dates here and there for the holidays.


Correct. This extension starts the 7th. Sea goes to just around holidays. Pdx goes to Sunday only (more around holidays.)
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:50 pm

March numbers for BLV

Passengers up 27.98% over March 2020
Year to date down 10.56%

Down 16% year to date vs 2019

March gains pretty much evened out February losses. April numbers should push them positive for the year vs 2020.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:48 pm

Southwest November schedule for non holiday weeks

Flights per day
Fri 90
Sat 64
Sun 94

Scroll to almost the far rights spreadsheet. Ignore all other airlines numbers.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:13 pm

International Loads for December

F9 CUN 73%
WN CUN 70%
AA CUN (NEW) 64% (92.5% outbound, guessing the first inbound was pretty empty to skew numbers)
F9 PUJ 39% (56% outbound, again mostly empty first inbound probably skewed things)
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:12 am

March loads for G4 at BLV

PIE 68.5%
SRQ 65.5%
PGD 65%
LAS 64%
VPS 61%
FLL 57%
AZA 56.5%
SFB 55%

Nothing great, nothing terrible. Passengers were up a bunch though, capacity just was as well. Most had more passengers in March than there were seats in Feb.
 
MAH4546
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:25 am

Jshank83 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:

I think they were able to start RDU on a 757 to build demand to where it is now. They also have some AA feed.

CLT is a huge AA hub


AA has never flown a 757 on Raleigh-London.

North Carolina has strong business demand to London and Missouri does not. Pharmaceutical demand from Raleigh and banking traffic from Charlotte.


From a Biz journal article in 2015.

Almost exactly 21 years ago, a 172-seat Boeing 757 took off on an eight-hour flight for London from Raleigh-Durham International Airport.

It was the debut of American Airlines’ London flight, which started at about $800, round trip.


That article is absolutely incorrect. 757 never flew the route. AA did not even have international configuration 757s until this decade. Route launched with 767-200.
a.
 
bretonrlong
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:48 pm

Great to see San Juan get added, has that been flown since American's hub days?

Curious which would be the most likely add next by WN internationally: My top 3 guesses below, not necessarily the top three I would choose.
- Los Cabos (3)
- Puerto Vallarta (1)
- Cozumel
- Belize City
- Liberia, Costa Rica (2)
- San Jose, Cost Rica
- Grand Cayman
- Aruba
- Nassau, Bahamas
- Turks and Caicos
- Havana
 
Cubsrule
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:53 pm

bretonrlong wrote:
Great to see San Juan get added, has that been flown since American's hub days?


I don’t think anyone has flown it since AA but it’s a good add. WN has dabbled with SJU expansion for a couple of years (e.g., they loaded BNA for summer 2020 but obviously did not start it), and Puerto Rico has an interesting mix of leisure, VFR, and even a little business traffic.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
pmanni1
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:16 pm

New AA to Austin is loaded.
AUS-STL 745am-945am
STL-AUS 1020am-1225pm
AUS-STL 425pm-625pm
STL-AUS 655pm-950pm
 
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TWA302
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:12 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
New AA to Austin is loaded.
AUS-STL 745am-945am
STL-AUS 1020am-1225pm
AUS-STL 425pm-625pm
STL-AUS 655pm-950pm


That first leg from STL is the pits when it comes to business, as it picks back up.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:30 am

bretonrlong wrote:
Great to see San Juan get added, has that been flown since American's hub days?

Curious which would be the most likely add next by WN internationally: My top 3 guesses below, not necessarily the top three I would choose.
- Los Cabos (3)
- Puerto Vallarta (1)
- Cozumel
- Belize City
- Liberia, Costa Rica (2)
- San Jose, Cost Rica
- Grand Cayman
- Aruba
- Nassau, Bahamas
- Turks and Caicos
- Havana


PVR would be my top personal choice followed by PLS. Not sure what I think is actually most likely.

For reference. Apple Vacations ran charters to HUX, PVR and SJD pre covid.
 
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stl07
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:30 am

Cubsrule wrote:
bretonrlong wrote:
Great to see San Juan get added, has that been flown since American's hub days?


I don’t think anyone has flown it since AA but it’s a good add. WN has dabbled with SJU expansion for a couple of years (e.g., they loaded BNA for summer 2020 but obviously did not start it), and Puerto Rico has an interesting mix of leisure, VFR, and even a little business traffic.

SJU is a great place on paper for WN since they can sell flights on both ends, something they struggle with in Mexico (hence the MEX flop)
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
pmanni1
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:15 am

TWA302 wrote:
pmanni1 wrote:
New AA to Austin is loaded.
AUS-STL 745am-945am
STL-AUS 1020am-1225pm
AUS-STL 425pm-625pm
STL-AUS 655pm-950pm


That first leg from STL is the pits when it comes to business, as it picks back up.

WN's AM departure on this same day (11/19) is 11:30AM so neither offer a nonstop for business people that need to be there early.
 
stlgph
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:56 pm

Not all business meetings start at 9 a.m.
Nor is it the mold anymore.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
dcaproducer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:50 pm

stlgph wrote:
Not all business meetings start at 9 a.m.
Nor is it the mold anymore.


100% agree and I thought that morning departure time was good.
 
dcaproducer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:54 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
bretonrlong wrote:
Great to see San Juan get added, has that been flown since American's hub days?

Curious which would be the most likely add next by WN internationally: My top 3 guesses below, not necessarily the top three I would choose.
- Los Cabos (3)
- Puerto Vallarta (1)
- Cozumel
- Belize City
- Liberia, Costa Rica (2)
- San Jose, Cost Rica
- Grand Cayman
- Aruba
- Nassau, Bahamas
- Turks and Caicos
- Havana


PVR would be my top personal choice followed by PLS. Not sure what I think is actually most likely.

For reference. Apple Vacations ran charters to HUX, PVR and SJD pre covid.


I don't see WN ever flying STL-PLS. PLS is a small, specialty Caribbean market compared to NAS, MBJ, PUJ. In fact, WN only flies to PLS from FLL right now, not even BWI. And as someone who flies to PLS every year, even the AA/DL/UA have a few flights to their large eastern hubs. It's not a knock on STL. I just don't see WN adding PLS from BNA, AUS or any of their mid-continent airports.

I see NAS being far more realistic from STL.
 
stlgph
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:13 pm

dcaproducer wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Not all business meetings start at 9 a.m.
Nor is it the mold anymore.


100% agree and I thought that morning departure time was good.


However, perfect time to land go brewery hopping :)
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:19 pm

dcaproducer wrote:

I don't see WN ever flying STL-PLS. PLS is a small, specialty Caribbean market compared to NAS, MBJ, PUJ. In fact, WN only flies to PLS from FLL right now, not even BWI. And as someone who flies to PLS every year, even the AA/DL/UA have a few flights to their large eastern hubs. It's not a knock on STL. I just don't see WN adding PLS from BNA, AUS or any of their mid-continent airports.

I see NAS being far more realistic from STL.


Living in STL I can attest to the fact the many people wouldn't even know where PLS is. When I go to GCM I tell people I'm going to the Cayman Islands, rather than Grand Cayman as they think I'm headed to the Grand Canyon. Around here it's all about LAS, CUN, Florida Panhandle and Lake of the Ozarks. If you say Nassau, they look at you funny but are less confused when you say The Bahamas. Of course that may be true of many parts of the country and Americans aren't really well educated geographically as a whole.
"My soul is in the sky". -Pyramus- A Midsummer Night's Dream
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:19 pm

dcaproducer wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
bretonrlong wrote:
Great to see San Juan get added, has that been flown since American's hub days?

Curious which would be the most likely add next by WN internationally: My top 3 guesses below, not necessarily the top three I would choose.
- Los Cabos (3)
- Puerto Vallarta (1)
- Cozumel
- Belize City
- Liberia, Costa Rica (2)
- San Jose, Cost Rica
- Grand Cayman
- Aruba
- Nassau, Bahamas
- Turks and Caicos
- Havana


PVR would be my top personal choice followed by PLS. Not sure what I think is actually most likely.

For reference. Apple Vacations ran charters to HUX, PVR and SJD pre covid.


I don't see WN ever flying STL-PLS. PLS is a small, specialty Caribbean market compared to NAS, MBJ, PUJ. In fact, WN only flies to PLS from FLL right now, not even BWI. And as someone who flies to PLS every year, even the AA/DL/UA have a few flights to their large eastern hubs. It's not a knock on STL. I just don't see WN adding PLS from BNA, AUS or any of their mid-continent airports.

I see NAS being far more realistic from STL.


Oh I agree about PLS, no way they actually would fly there. That is just my personal preference on route even though it won't ever happen.

NAS and SJD are probably the most likely. PVR next, MAYBE Grand Cayman (even that's a stretch). Then after that I can't see any of the rest anytime soon.

That all said I actually do know a few people who have been to PLS recently from here but like mentioned before if BWI doesn't have it, it isn't coming.
 
dcaproducer
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:51 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:

PVR would be my top personal choice followed by PLS. Not sure what I think is actually most likely.

For reference. Apple Vacations ran charters to HUX, PVR and SJD pre covid.


I don't see WN ever flying STL-PLS. PLS is a small, specialty Caribbean market compared to NAS, MBJ, PUJ. In fact, WN only flies to PLS from FLL right now, not even BWI. And as someone who flies to PLS every year, even the AA/DL/UA have a few flights to their large eastern hubs. It's not a knock on STL. I just don't see WN adding PLS from BNA, AUS or any of their mid-continent airports.

I see NAS being far more realistic from STL.


Oh I agree about PLS, no way they actually would fly there. That is just my personal preference on route even though it won't ever happen.

NAS and SJD are probably the most likely. PVR next, MAYBE Grand Cayman (even that's a stretch). Then after that I can't see any of the rest anytime soon.

That all said I actually do know a few people who have been to PLS recently from here but like mentioned before if BWI doesn't have it, it isn't coming.


WN is actually relatively new to PLS. I think they started service in 2019. NK doesn't even fly to PLS. Great vacation spot, it's just not that well known (in a good way, keeps the crowds down).
I think NAS is a natural and they can probably fill that plane easily. I'm curious to see how SJU does. That's both a business and vacation market and Puerto Rico has a large Pharma market. Plus, no passport required.

I think it will be really interesting to see what else NK brings to the market.
 
Jshank83
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:07 pm

dcaproducer wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:

I don't see WN ever flying STL-PLS. PLS is a small, specialty Caribbean market compared to NAS, MBJ, PUJ. In fact, WN only flies to PLS from FLL right now, not even BWI. And as someone who flies to PLS every year, even the AA/DL/UA have a few flights to their large eastern hubs. It's not a knock on STL. I just don't see WN adding PLS from BNA, AUS or any of their mid-continent airports.

I see NAS being far more realistic from STL.


Oh I agree about PLS, no way they actually would fly there. That is just my personal preference on route even though it won't ever happen.

NAS and SJD are probably the most likely. PVR next, MAYBE Grand Cayman (even that's a stretch). Then after that I can't see any of the rest anytime soon.

That all said I actually do know a few people who have been to PLS recently from here but like mentioned before if BWI doesn't have it, it isn't coming.


WN is actually relatively new to PLS. I think they started service in 2019. NK doesn't even fly to PLS. Great vacation spot, it's just not that well known (in a good way, keeps the crowds down).
I think NAS is a natural and they can probably fill that plane easily. I'm curious to see how SJU does. That's both a business and vacation market and Puerto Rico has a large Pharma market. Plus, no passport required.

I think it will be really interesting to see what else NK brings to the market.


With WN seemingly spread thin at the moment with all the new stations, I am interested to see how NK (and possibly AA) go about things with WN not really able to defend all that well at the moment
 
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stl07
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:40 pm

Speaking of AA, I just want to say how insane it is that we got THREE new destinations within a year. You know, the same AA that had the cornerstone plan of no flying to non-hubs
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
jplatts
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:14 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
With WN seemingly spread thin at the moment with all the new stations, I am interested to see how NK (and possibly AA) go about things with WN not really able to defend all that well at the moment


There are still some more nonstop routes that could be added by NK out of STL such as STL-ATL/BWI/DFW/IAH/MSY/MYR.

I probably would also expect NK to add STL-MSY/MYR nonstop service with
(a) NK already serving both of these destinations nonstop from ORD, CLE, CMH, and DTW in the Midwest,
(b) NK also already serving MYR nonstop from MCI and CAK in the Midwest, and
(c) MSY and MYR both being leisure destinations.

I had previously mentioned the possibility of AA adding STL-JFK nonstop service with JFK being the only AA hub that AA doesn't currently serve nonstop from STL along with STL being the largest U.S. metropolitan area without any nonstop service to JFK. STL-JFK is also the only additional nonstop route apart from the already-announced resumption of AA STL-AUS/BOS nonstop service that I would expect AA to add out of STL.

AA already serves its CLT, ORD, DFW, LAX, MIA, LGA, PHL, PHX, and DCA hubs nonstop from STL, and AA will also be resuming STL-AUS/BOS nonstop service later this year.

In addition to the return of STL-CVG nonstop service, DL adding nonstop service to its LAX and SEA hubs from STL are possibilities with STL being one of the top destinations traveled to from LAX and SEA that DL doesn't currently serve nonstop from LAX and SEA.

DL also still serves LAX and SEA nonstop from some Midwestern cities other than its DTW/MSP hubs with DL currently operating LAX-CVG/IND/MCI nonstop service and SEA-CVG/ORD nonstop service along with DL having plans to resume SEA-IND/MCI/MKE nonstop service.

There are also some connecting opportunities available through SEA on DL to some Alaskan and Chinese destinations that DL doesn't serve nonstop from its SLC or MSP hubs.

While UA already serves its ORD, DEN, IAH, EWR, and IAD hubs nonstop from STL and while UA currently has plans to resume SFO-STL nonstop service, UA adding STL-LAX nonstop service might be a possibility with LAX being the only UA hub other than SFO that UA doesn't currently serve nonstop from STL. STL-LAX is also within the range of E-175 regional jets as UA had operated E-175 regional jets on a few nonstop routes longer than STL-LAX such as ORD-EUG/FAT, LAX-MSN, and SFO-MSN/STL.

UA adding STL-PWM nonstop service might also be a possibility with UA having recently added nonstop service to PWM from CVG, CLE, CMH, IND, MKE, and PIT.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 4446
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:26 pm

jplatts wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
With WN seemingly spread thin at the moment with all the new stations, I am interested to see how NK (and possibly AA) go about things with WN not really able to defend all that well at the moment


There are still some more nonstop routes that could be added by NK out of STL such as STL-ATL/BWI/DFW/IAH/MSY/MYR.

I probably would also expect NK to add STL-MSY/MYR nonstop service with
(a) NK already serving both of these destinations nonstop from ORD, CLE, CMH, and DTW in the Midwest,
(b) NK also already serving MYR nonstop from MCI and CAK in the Midwest, and
(c) MSY and MYR both being leisure destinations.


How many of those already have MYR service on 3 other carries than NK like STL/BLV? Do we think NK wants to be the 4th?

jplatts wrote:
I had previously mentioned the possibility of AA adding STL-JFK nonstop service with JFK being the only AA hub that AA doesn't currently serve nonstop from STL along with STL being the largest U.S. metropolitan area without any nonstop service to JFK. STL-JFK is also the only additional nonstop route apart from the already-announced resumption of AA STL-AUS/BOS nonstop service that I would expect AA to add out of STL.

AA already serves its CLT, ORD, DFW, LAX, MIA, LGA, PHL, PHX, and DCA hubs nonstop from STL, and AA will also be resuming STL-AUS/BOS nonstop service later this year.


Yea, everyone on here already knows what AA serves from here. We have basically been talking about it for the last month with the new adds. There actually are other adds I could see AA make besides JFK.

jplatts wrote:
In addition to the return of STL-CVG nonstop service, DL adding nonstop service to its LAX and SEA hubs from STL are possibilities with STL being one of the top destinations traveled to from LAX and SEA that DL doesn't currently serve nonstop from LAX and SEA.

DL also still serves LAX and SEA nonstop from some Midwestern cities other than its DTW/MSP hubs with DL currently operating LAX-CVG/IND/MCI nonstop service and SEA-CVG/ORD nonstop service along with DL having plans to resume SEA-IND/MCI/MKE nonstop service.

There are also some connecting opportunities available through SEA on DL to some Alaskan and Chinese destinations that DL doesn't serve nonstop from its SLC or MSP hubs.


If DL was going to add any new stations they would have done it way before now. LAX has 3 carriers daily already and with G4 saying they may add it. DL isn't going to be the 4th (or 5th on it).
jplatts wrote:
While UA already serves its ORD, DEN, IAH, EWR, and IAD hubs nonstop from STL and while UA currently has plans to resume SFO-STL nonstop service, UA adding STL-LAX nonstop service might be a possibility with LAX being the only UA hub other than SFO that UA doesn't currently serve nonstop from STL. STL-LAX is also within the range of E-175 regional jets as UA had operated E-175 regional jets on a few nonstop routes longer than STL-LAX such as ORD-EUG/FAT, LAX-MSN, and SFO-MSN/STL.


LOL

You need a better understanding of the STL market before you post these long posts in here. DL/UA are not adding LAX. STL isn't a big enough market to handle another major carrier.
 
jplatts
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:35 am

Jshank83 wrote:
How many of those already have MYR service on 3 other carries than NK like STL/BLV? Do we think NK wants to be the 4th?


There are a few markets such as CHI, NYC, and WAS that have nonstop service to MYR on 4 or more airlines, but CHI, NYC, and WAS are much bigger markets than STL.

Jshank83 wrote:
Yea, everyone on here already knows what AA serves from here. We have basically been talking about it for the last month with the new adds. There actually are other adds I could see AA make besides JFK.


What nonstop routes apart from STL-JFK/AUS/BOS would you expect AA to add out of STL?

Jshank83 wrote:
If DL was going to add any new stations they would have done it way before now. LAX has 3 carriers daily already and with G4 saying they may add it. DL isn't going to be the 4th (or 5th on it).


DL was expanding its SEA hub prior to COVID-19 pandemic, and DL had added nonstop service to SEA from ORD, IND, MCI, and MKE in the Midwest prior to the COVID-19 pandemic. DL has suspended SEA-IND/MCI/MKE nonstop service during the pandemic, but plans on resuming all three of these nonstop routes once demand recovers.

DL had also announced plans to serve SEA nonstop from CMH right before the COVID-19 pandemic hit, but dropped those plans due to the COVID-19 pandemic.

MCI had daily nonstop service to SEA on DL, AS, and WN 2 years ago, but WN has resumed MCI-SEA nonstop service on a Saturday-only basis and DL has not yet resumed MCI-SEA nonstop service.

STL might possibly be able to support nonstop service to SEA on DL in addition to WN and AS once demand recovers with MCI being able to support nonstop service to SEA on 3 airlines prior to the COVID-19 pandemic (at least on a summer seasonal basis) and with STL being located in a bigger metro area than MCI.

There are a few markets similar in size to STL (by metropolitan area population) such as SMF and SAT that have nonstop service to LAX on more than 3 airlines, with AA/DL/UA/WN all having nonstop service to LAX from SAT and SMF.
 
strangeplanes
Posts: 101
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:16 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 15, 2021 4:17 am

jplatts wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
How many of those already have MYR service on 3 other carries than NK like STL/BLV? Do we think NK wants to be the 4th?


There are a few markets such as CHI, NYC, and WAS that have nonstop service to MYR on 4 or more airlines, but CHI, NYC, and WAS are much bigger markets than STL.

Jshank83 wrote:
Yea, everyone on here already knows what AA serves from here. We have basically been talking about it for the last month with the new adds. There actually are other adds I could see AA make besides JFK.


What nonstop routes apart from STL-JFK/AUS/BOS would you expect AA to add out of STL?

Jshank83 wrote:
If DL was going to add any new stations they would have done it way before now. LAX has 3 carriers daily already and with G4 saying they may add it. DL isn't going to be the 4th (or 5th on it).


DL was expanding its SEA hub prior to COVID-19 pandemic, and DL had added nonstop service to SEA from ORD, IND, MCI, and MKE in the Midwest prior to the COVID-19 pandemic. DL has suspended SEA-IND/MCI/MKE nonstop service during the pandemic, but plans on resuming all three of these nonstop routes once demand recovers.

DL had also announced plans to serve SEA nonstop from CMH right before the COVID-19 pandemic hit, but dropped those plans due to the COVID-19 pandemic.

MCI had daily nonstop service to SEA on DL, AS, and WN 2 years ago, but WN has resumed MCI-SEA nonstop service on a Saturday-only basis and DL has not yet resumed MCI-SEA nonstop service.

STL might possibly be able to support nonstop service to SEA on DL in addition to WN and AS once demand recovers with MCI being able to support nonstop service to SEA on 3 airlines prior to the COVID-19 pandemic (at least on a summer seasonal basis) and with STL being located in a bigger metro area than MCI.

There are a few markets similar in size to STL (by metropolitan area population) such as SMF and SAT that have nonstop service to LAX on more than 3 airlines, with AA/DL/UA/WN all having nonstop service to LAX from SAT and SMF.

MCI - SEA has been back on DL for a little bit
 
Jshank83
Posts: 4446
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 15, 2021 4:23 am

jplatts wrote:

What nonstop routes apart from STL-JFK/AUS/BOS would you expect AA to add out of STL?


I could see multiple Florida airports as realistic options. And I don’t “expect” anything.
 
dcaproducer
Posts: 442
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:26 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:26 pm

DL at STL is odd to me. They had the opportunity to really punch AA and take the lead. STL does have mostly DL mainline, so that's a positive. I always thought JFK made a ton of sense as it would feed their international flights and SkyTeam. My guess is they'd rather send that feed through ATL, but JFK gets some flights ATL does not.

I don't see DL adding SEA. The SEA buildup was DL going after Alaska. In fact, they made status super easy for SEA-based fliers for a bit to try and win over some loyalty.

Did DL bring back their MCO flight? I think that's an interesting possibility. I just don't know what else makes sense in their network right now and DL has been super slow to add back routes. (as someone who's flying them every week right now, it's been a pain) You don't want LAX on DL right now until they finish rebuilding T3, their current terminal situation is a complex mess. (was there last week) If DL did add LAX it would be feed for their Hawaii and TPAC flights.

AA is interesting and I think they will be the legacy to watch in STL.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 4446
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:21 pm

dcaproducer wrote:

Did DL bring back their MCO flight? I think that's an interesting possibility.


No and I don't think it was scheduled last year either (precovid). This is a flight I could see AA adding. They run it from other non hubs.

dcaproducer wrote:
AA is interesting and I think they will be the legacy to watch in STL.


With AS in OneWorld now the network really could be pretty good between the two with just a couple more adds especially "IF" we get a LHR flight.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 4446
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 15, 2021 4:22 pm

Looking good.
_______________

More than 18,000 people traveled to and from St. Louis Airport on Sunday.

“That was only about 8% down from 2019 same day, so we’re getting back on certain days to where we were seeing the same numbers in 2019,” said Hamm-Neibruegge.

https://fox2now.com/news/missouri/st-lo ... travelers/
 
Jshank83
Posts: 4446
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:08 pm

Looks like no SFO for UA in September also.

Same amount of flights 21 a day (based off Friday) as August.
Extra EWR to 3x while we lose the MYR/HHH flights.
Denver gets a 737 and I think a A319, if I am reading the codes right.
IAH I think still has a mainline (A319) again if I am reading the codes right.
 
Jshank83
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Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:49 pm

747 coming in at some point today from Chicago.

Atlas Air 8531
 
maps4ltd
Posts: 961
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:17 pm

Interesting perspective:

Tomorrow Frontier is 6 flights out of STL (only on A321s and A320neos) with a total of 1292 departing seats.

United is flying 17 flights out of STL (all on CRJ-550s or E175s) with a total of 1078 departing seats.

So F9 is bigger in terms of seats at STL than UA (at least on most days).
All opinions expressed herein are mine and do not represent the views of Cape Air
 
User avatar
symphonicpoet
Posts: 75
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Re: St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:41 am

I try not to spam this thread too much with my photographs, but since jshank mentioned the 747 . . .
Image

I also thought this little Beech was interesting, since it belongs to Boeing. Not quite sure what they do with it, but they don't let you track it:
Image

This last one isn't particularly special. Just a bog-standard 737. But the contrails lead the eye to it nicely.
Image

Saw the C-5, but I wasn't able to get a particularly good picture and it was just parked when I was there. Didn't see it arrive or depart.
TW AA MU JL KE DL UA LOF GJS SKW WN VN
STL JFK FRA GVA CDG IAD ORD PVG SGN NRT ICN ATL SFO HKG MDW LGA BNA DTW LHR
L1011 MD82 83 88 B737 738 741 744 762 763 772 773 777 A320 330 350 E175 C700

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