Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
pmanni1 wrote:Amazed that NK brought back PNS for 2022. I'm guessing they're trying to develop that route rather than promptly cancel it like F9 would.
pmanni1 wrote:dcaproducer wrote:Jshank83 wrote:
Welll something I was not expecting to be added back in this late…
HUX/PVR/SJD are back from 2022 on Apple vacations.
All being run on Viva Aerobus 1x a week.
Huatulco - Saturday Feb 12 - Aug 6
Los Cabos - Sundays Feb 13 - Aug 7
Puerto Vallarta - Sundays May 22 - Aug 7
It will be interesting to see if WN grows any flights to Caribbean markets or if they connect passengers through FLL/BWI, etc. I think there are some they could fill seasonally.
Also, looking at Allegiant's interactive route map, it's interesting how they concentrate flights by region. Looking at the flight distances they fly from BLV, I could see them trying AUS & MSY.
The new SJU flights get feed from DEN,DSM,OMA,ICT,MCI,OKC&TUL. It seems like other Caribbean flights could work with that amount of feed.
Jshank83 wrote:SY extended their schedule. MSP back 2x a week for summer. Bleh.
pmanni1 wrote:Jshank83 wrote:SY extended their schedule. MSP back 2x a week for summer. Bleh.
SY is a mess and I don't know who would bother flying them. Their connections in MSP to the most basic locations like MCO,PHX,LAX,SFO,LAS are all overnight 14-16 hours.
stlAV8R wrote:I saw UA is running 737s from ORD-STL and back as of late. Anyone know if this is long-term?
Jshank83 wrote:stlAV8R wrote:I saw UA is running 737s from ORD-STL and back as of late. Anyone know if this is long-term?
I’d guess more of a seasonal thing. It’s back to all RJs in January but I don’t think the January schedule is firmed up yet.
pmanni1 wrote:Looks like WN has responded to AA adding AUS & BOS by adding a 3rd daily to each. Extra frequency on AUS starts Jan 17 and BOS Mar 10 running through the end of the schedule.
stl07 wrote:pmanni1 wrote:Looks like WN has responded to AA adding AUS & BOS by adding a 3rd daily to each. Extra frequency on AUS starts Jan 17 and BOS Mar 10 running through the end of the schedule.
Which is senseless. AA added those routes for business travelers who will not be taking WN anyways and also for greater network connectivity.
Midwestindy wrote:stl07 wrote:pmanni1 wrote:Looks like WN has responded to AA adding AUS & BOS by adding a 3rd daily to each. Extra frequency on AUS starts Jan 17 and BOS Mar 10 running through the end of the schedule.
Which is senseless. AA added those routes for business travelers who will not be taking WN anyways and also for greater network connectivity.
Not sure STL-BOS is a response to AA, WN ran it 3-5 daily pre-covid IIRC. So, this is somewhat just restoring pre-covid frequency,
dcaproducer wrote:Midwestindy wrote:stl07 wrote:Which is senseless. AA added those routes for business travelers who will not be taking WN anyways and also for greater network connectivity.
Not sure STL-BOS is a response to AA, WN ran it 3-5 daily pre-covid IIRC. So, this is somewhat just restoring pre-covid frequency,
Could also be a response to load factors, since AUS and BOS have been performing well for WN.
pmanni1 wrote:dcaproducer wrote:Midwestindy wrote:
Not sure STL-BOS is a response to AA, WN ran it 3-5 daily pre-covid IIRC. So, this is somewhat just restoring pre-covid frequency,
Could also be a response to load factors, since AUS and BOS have been performing well for WN.
WN adding the extra frequency in Jan instead of waiting until the busy season makes me think it's because of AA. But who really knows?
Jshank83 wrote:
pmanni1 wrote:I wonder how accurate the seat availability maps are on Spirit's website. Looking at some of the new flights to TPA,PHX & RSW that start up in a few weeks and they appear amazingly empty. Probably 20 or less occupied seats the first few days.
BangersAndMash wrote:pmanni1 wrote:I wonder how accurate the seat availability maps are on Spirit's website. Looking at some of the new flights to TPA,PHX & RSW that start up in a few weeks and they appear amazingly empty. Probably 20 or less occupied seats the first few days.
A lot of people on Spirit won't pay for seat assignment so probably not that accurate. You'd be better off waiting for actual LF data.
Jshank83 wrote:BangersAndMash wrote:pmanni1 wrote:I wonder how accurate the seat availability maps are on Spirit's website. Looking at some of the new flights to TPA,PHX & RSW that start up in a few weeks and they appear amazingly empty. Probably 20 or less occupied seats the first few days.
A lot of people on Spirit won't pay for seat assignment so probably not that accurate. You'd be better off waiting for actual LF data.
2nd this. Maybe day of it will be closer but until you are 24 hours or less out I wouldn’t expect it to be very accurate.
maps4ltd wrote:Wonder when mainline will come back to PHL on AA. I flew an A319 on the route in 2019. I know it's mostly TATL stuff through Philly (I flew PRG-PHL-STL) but, considering LGA is getting mainline for the first time in a few years, I'd love to see the City of Brotherly Love get some...love.
(Oh, and speaking of LaGuardia, would like to see Delta mainline back on that route as well, like they did in 2019).
TWA302 wrote:
stl07 wrote:TWA302 wrote:
I didn't realize they flew to DEN as well, I just assumed it was ORD which I'm sure nobody is crying about. Loosing DEN is a bummer though
Jshank83 wrote:I really hope the airport is trying to get AA/AS to pick up SFO while WN and UA are screwing around and not running them.
jplatts wrote:Jshank83 wrote:I really hope the airport is trying to get AA/AS to pick up SFO while WN and UA are screwing around and not running them.
One issue that AS would face on STL-SFO is that both UA and WN have bigger FF bases in the San Francisco Bay Area than AS/AA do. UA also still has a much bigger domestic presence at SFO than AS does, even after the suspensions and cuts that UA has made at SFO due to the COVID-19 pandemic.
jplatts wrote:Jshank83 wrote:I really hope the airport is trying to get AA/AS to pick up SFO while WN and UA are screwing around and not running them.
One issue that AS would face on STL-SFO is that both UA and WN have bigger FF bases in the San Francisco Bay Area than AS/AA do. UA also still has a much bigger domestic presence at SFO than AS does, even after the suspensions and cuts that UA has made at SFO due to the COVID-19 pandemic.
Jshank83 wrote:stl07 wrote:TWA302 wrote:
I didn't realize they flew to DEN as well, I just assumed it was ORD which I'm sure nobody is crying about. Loosing DEN is a bummer though
I don't think DEN was around all that long before it got cut due to COVID. UA kept saying it would come back but obviously it isn't.
Jshank83 wrote:
WN
JAX 91%
pmanni1 wrote:How quickly NYC recovered. At or above 90% on all carriers.
Not seeing HHH or MYR on UA's schedule for next summer. A one time experiment or could be added back in a few months.
Jshank83 wrote:pmanni1 wrote:How quickly NYC recovered. At or above 90% on all carriers.
Not seeing HHH or MYR on UA's schedule for next summer. A one time experiment or could be added back in a few months.
NYC also didn’t have much capacity. AA was only running 1 flight a day. Now that in November everyone had to ramp schedules back up closer to normal we will see how it does.
TWA302 wrote:Jshank83 wrote:
WN
JAX 91%
Who said JAX wouldn't work?
Jshank83 wrote:Finally getting around to the rest of the July Loads, seeing August come out on Friday....
I'll get to the rest of WN hopefully tomorrow.
AS
Sea 89.5%
AA
LAX 93.5%
PHL 91%
LGA 90.5%
DCA 90%
PHX 89%
CLT 87.5%
DFW 86.5%
MIA 82.5%
ORD 75.5% - Mainline and envoy only
DL
LGA 89.5%
SLC 87%
DTW 82.5%
ATL 79.5%
MSP 70%
F9 - Seems like NK is eating into MCO/LAS
DEN 87%
MCO 78%
LAS 77%
ORD 22%
NK
LAX 94%
LAS 84.5% (95% outbound)
MCO 80.5%
FLL 74.5%
PNS 31.5% - still rough..
UA
DEN 91.5%
EWR 90%
IAD 86%
ORD 83.5 - Gojet only
IAH 80.5%
MYR 64.5% - getting better
HHH 57%
SY
43%
Jshank83 wrote:Jshank83 wrote:Finally getting around to the rest of the July Loads, seeing August come out on Friday....
I'll get to the rest of WN hopefully tomorrow.
AS
Sea 89.5%
AA
LAX 93.5%
PHL 91%
LGA 90.5%
DCA 90%
PHX 89%
CLT 87.5%
DFW 86.5%
MIA 82.5%
ORD 75.5% - Mainline and envoy only
DL
LGA 89.5%
SLC 87%
DTW 82.5%
ATL 79.5%
MSP 70%
F9 - Seems like NK is eating into MCO/LAS
DEN 87%
MCO 78%
LAS 77%
ORD 22%
NK
LAX 94%
LAS 84.5% (95% outbound)
MCO 80.5%
FLL 74.5%
PNS 31.5% - still rough..
UA
DEN 91.5%
EWR 90%
IAD 86%
ORD 83.5 - Gojet only
IAH 80.5%
MYR 64.5% - getting better
HHH 57%
SY
43%
WN - Lots of 90s
SAN 95.5%
OAK 95%
PDX 95%
SMF 94.5%
LAX 94.5%
LGA 93.5%
PHL 94%
DCA 94%
SJC 93.5%
PIT 93.5%
CLE 93%
LAS 92.5%
RDU 92%
AUS 92%
PHX 92%
BOS 92%
SEA 92%
SLC 91%
BWI 91%
JAX 91%
SNA 91%
MCO 90.5%
TPA 89.5%
DEN 89%
LGB 87.5% - really taking off the last two months
ATL 87%
DAL 87%
OKC 86% (94% inbound)
MCI 86%
OMA 85.5% (91.5% inbound)
RSW 85.5% (91.5% outbound)
ECP 85%
MKE 85%
CHS 85%
BNA 84.5% (91.5% outbound)
HOU 84%
PNS 83%
MYR 82.5% (93% outbound)
MIA 82.5%
ICT 82%
SRQ 82%
SAT 81.5%
MSY 81%
MDW 81%
TUL 80.5%
CLT 80%
LIT 79%
VPS 79% (89% outbound)
FLL 74%
SAV 72.5%
DSM 66%
Hopefully by next summer we see most of our routes restored because we obviously could use more with these loads.
Full spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
May Intl and August domestic come out tomorrow. I'll have at least Intl and new routes up tomorrow hopefully.
Jshank83 wrote:May International Load Factors
WN Cancun 90.5%
F9 Cancun 89%
F9 Punta Cana 79%
WN Montego Bay 58% (70% outbound)
It is going to be interesting to see how Cancun numbers do with four airlines, three of them daily, starting to fly it this month.
TWA302 wrote:Jshank83 wrote:May International Load Factors
WN Cancun 90.5%
F9 Cancun 89%
F9 Punta Cana 79%
WN Montego Bay 58% (70% outbound)
It is going to be interesting to see how Cancun numbers do with four airlines, three of them daily, starting to fly it this month.
I wonder how many of the WN passengers are connections? That is the one upside that they have on the others. MBJ. I haven't been to Jamaica in YEARS. Was never a fan of it. Same with the DR and I hear it has become worse. With other places that are less or equally expensive with a better experience all around. We have found Belize (Ambergris Caye) one of the best in terms of everything most want without all of the tourist trap hoopla. I get the draw to CUN for many too. Just not my cup of tea. Just was at Mayakoba last week and still not impressed.
Jshank83 wrote:May International Load Factors
WN Montego Bay 58% (70% outbound)
It is going to be interesting to see how Cancun numbers do with four airlines, three of them daily, starting to fly it this month.
StlHsvSfoSan wrote:Jshank83 wrote:May International Load Factors
WN Montego Bay 58% (70% outbound)
It is going to be interesting to see how Cancun numbers do with four airlines, three of them daily, starting to fly it this month.
Anyone know why there is such a big difference between inbound and outbound load factors ? Did the flights start at the end of the month ?
Jshank83 wrote:BLV numbers for August
Best August passenger number ever... but loads are rough...
Month
Up 46% vs 2020
Up 13% vs 2019
Year
Up 51% on 2020
Even with 2020 (technically up about 100 passengers)
Loads
PIE 82.5%
JAX 78.5%
LAS 75%
PGD 74%
SFB 70%
VPS 67.5%
MYR 60.5%
SAV 59% (73% inbound, last month of season)
FLL 57%
CHS 56.5%
SRQ 55.5%
