St. Louis Aviation Thread - 2021

stl07 · Thu May 27, 2021 6:53 am

And TPA just tweeted a pic of Breeze and Spirit

pmanni1 · Thu May 27, 2021 9:58 am

stl07 wrote:
PHX as well
Edit:TPA too

I'm not sure where you are seeing this. I don't show any of these on Spirit's website.

stl07 · Thu May 27, 2021 10:02 am

pmanni1 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
PHX as well
Edit:TPA too

I'm not sure where you are seeing this. I don't show any of these on Spirit's website.

Wait for a few hours

dcaproducer · Thu May 27, 2021 2:38 pm

So watching the FB live stream from the airport.. Spirit showed a route map with Los Angeles!? Was that one of the original route announcement? (edit: yes it was, I just overlooked it)

NK rep said loads out today 85-90%. "Phenomenal" Her quote.
RSW and TPA also added.

STLflyer · Thu May 27, 2021 2:41 pm

dcaproducer wrote:
So watching the FB live stream from the airport.. Spirit showed a route map with Los Angeles!? Was that one of the original route announcement? (maybe I missed that)

NK rep said loads out today 85-90%. "Phenomenal" Her quote.
RSW and TPA also added.

Yes, LAX was one of the original Spirit destinatinos.

NK1157 STL-LAX leaves in a bit over an hour.

dcaproducer · Thu May 27, 2021 2:44 pm

STLflyer wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:
So watching the FB live stream from the airport.. Spirit showed a route map with Los Angeles!? Was that one of the original route announcement? (maybe I missed that)

NK rep said loads out today 85-90%. "Phenomenal" Her quote.
RSW and TPA also added.

Yes, LAX was one of the original Spirit destinatinos.

NK1157 STL-LAX leaves in a bit over an hour.

Yup. Answered my own question. I saw LAS, but overlooked LAX.

So NK will have a pretty impressive list of routes from STL. It will be interesting to see how they do against WN and F9.

Jshank83 · Thu May 27, 2021 2:49 pm

Happy for the new routes. The CUN add is blah to me. We already have 3 airlines on it. The other 3 are good. I would have liked to have seen some non leisure though.

Wneast · Thu May 27, 2021 2:50 pm

I’m sure WN will love this

Jshank83 · Thu May 27, 2021 2:52 pm

Wneast wrote:
I’m sure WN will love this

It was time for someone to push them a bit. Frontier should have been the one but they just sat around for years.

pmanni1 · Thu May 27, 2021 3:01 pm

Looks like they will need another gate. The CUN & MCO departure times are both 7am. RSW is 6am and that's early for leisure.

Nicknuzzii · Thu May 27, 2021 3:08 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
Looks like they will need another gate. The CUN & MCO departure times are both 7am. RSW is 6am and that's early for leisure.

That’s perfect for leisure

atrude777 · Thu May 27, 2021 3:11 pm

Wneast wrote:
I’m sure WN will love this

Love Southwest, used to work for them.

Other airlines need to keep Southwest in check, both in prices and routes.

Competition is good and healthy, Southwest even said it themselves awhile back.

I warmly welcome Spirit and their increased routes to STL.

Congrats to STL and Spirit!

Alex

pmanni1 · Thu May 27, 2021 3:21 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
pmanni1 wrote:
Looks like they will need another gate. The CUN & MCO departure times are both 7am. RSW is 6am and that's early for leisure.

That’s perfect for leisure

My own preference is later in the morning. 6am gets you there by 9am and then it's a full 6 hours before you can check into your hotel.

Jshank83 · Thu May 27, 2021 3:46 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
Looks like they will need another gate. The CUN & MCO departure times are both 7am. RSW is 6am and that's early for leisure.

I think the airport is making C29/30/21 all available to them if they want them. And Contours C27 is about to open up.

Curious if this means Sun stays on RSW or just retreats entirely.

All new flights seem to be daily which means everything but PNS will be daily over winter

dcaproducer · Thu May 27, 2021 3:54 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
pmanni1 wrote:
Looks like they will need another gate. The CUN & MCO departure times are both 7am. RSW is 6am and that's early for leisure.

I think the airport is making C29/30/21 all available to them if they want them. And Contours C27 is about to open up.

Curious if this means Sun stays on RSW or just retreats entirely.

All new flights seem to be daily which means everything but PNS will be daily over winter

NK is a better airline for STL than Sun and their on-again-off-again service.
NK is definitely going after leisure, but will be interesting to see if they eventually add some other routes. C is about to get a whole lot busier, which is good.

Jshank83 · Thu May 27, 2021 3:54 pm

In explaining the rapid growth in an interview with TPG, John Kirby, vice president of network planning, said that the new routes being announced on Thursday were in the works for a while, but the market is already outperforming expectations. “The response in the advance bookings we’re seeing in both markets makes us wonder if we maybe we should even add a little bit more,” he said.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/spirit-ai ... expansion/

tphuang · Thu May 27, 2021 4:10 pm

This just shows me again that NK is WN's biggest threat. WN doesn't know how to deal with NK. NK knows that the WN dominated markets are the easiest ones for them to expand in.

stlgph · Thu May 27, 2021 4:35 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
pmanni1 wrote:
Looks like they will need another gate. The CUN & MCO departure times are both 7am. RSW is 6am and that's early for leisure.

That’s perfect for leisure

My own preference is later in the morning. 6am gets you there by 9am and then it's a full 6 hours before you can check into your hotel.

For those who like their hotels, yes, but leisure flights going out early in the morning always seem to work for a number of people. I remember ATA out of Indianapolis sent most of their flights out 6am-7am.
You arrive mid to late morning, by the time you get to your rental car, you can go to the beach, grab lunch or whatever for a few hours then do your hotel. For many, this feels like they have a "full day" of activity at their destination, especially since many will be leaving that next week in the morning around 8am from their hotel or whatever to head to the airport.

Then there is the age of Air BNB - people can just show up and check in at various times instead of having to wait until 3 p.m. or what have you.

Then there is the time share crowd.

And the people who own their own condo crowd.

It all works.

CATIIIevery5yrs · Thu May 27, 2021 4:44 pm

tphuang wrote:
This just shows me again that NK is WN's biggest threat. WN doesn't know how to deal with NK. NK knows that the WN dominated markets are the easiest ones for them to expand in.

Exactly. I’ve been holding back this comment for years, but there’s clearly now enough data to support that statement. In the last 10 years NK has gone into, done well, and grown into areas of strong SWA ops like LAS, MCO, BWI, LAX, AUS, MSY, and apparently now STL.

pmanni1 · Thu May 27, 2021 4:53 pm

Interesting Spirit article from Zach. He had all the info before it was released to the public https://thepointsguy.com/news/spirit-ai ... expansion/

STLflyer · Thu May 27, 2021 4:55 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
pmanni1 wrote:
Looks like they will need another gate. The CUN & MCO departure times are both 7am. RSW is 6am and that's early for leisure.

That’s perfect for leisure

My own preference is later in the morning. 6am gets you there by 9am and then it's a full 6 hours before you can check into your hotel.

My idea of a leisure trip is somewhere far, far away on another continent, so I don't know what it's like in Florida or whatever, but I've never stayed at a hotel that didn't let me store my bags if I arrived before check in so I could go explore the city. Hell, half the time they're able to let me check in early anyways.

stlgph · Thu May 27, 2021 5:18 pm

CATIIIevery5yrs wrote:
tphuang wrote:
This just shows me again that NK is WN's biggest threat. WN doesn't know how to deal with NK. NK knows that the WN dominated markets are the easiest ones for them to expand in.

Exactly. I’ve been holding back this comment for years, but there’s clearly now enough data to support that statement. In the last 10 years NK has gone into, done well, and grown into areas of strong SWA ops like LAS, MCO, BWI, LAX, AUS, MSY, and apparently now STL.

For sure - I've been saying for a while that Spirit is no longer the trashy UULLCCCC of 5-10 years ago. It's a major player that consumers and airline competitors are both taking seriously.

Although, admittedly, I do miss their raunchy ad campaigns.

stl07 · Thu May 27, 2021 6:14 pm

you snooze, you loose. All of these domestic routes were originally offered on F9 and SY and should have been their's to keep. Good to see the musical chairs end with an airline that provides daily reliable service. I agree with STLGPH, NK is a real airline know.

STLflyer · Thu May 27, 2021 6:28 pm

stlgph wrote:
CATIIIevery5yrs wrote:
tphuang wrote:
This just shows me again that NK is WN's biggest threat. WN doesn't know how to deal with NK. NK knows that the WN dominated markets are the easiest ones for them to expand in.

Exactly. I’ve been holding back this comment for years, but there’s clearly now enough data to support that statement. In the last 10 years NK has gone into, done well, and grown into areas of strong SWA ops like LAS, MCO, BWI, LAX, AUS, MSY, and apparently now STL.

For sure - I've been saying for a while that Spirit is no longer the trashy UULLCCCC of 5-10 years ago. It's a major player that consumers and airline competitors are both taking seriously.

Although, admittedly, I do miss their raunchy ad campaigns.

Ah yes, the MILF sale and Muff Diving sale. Those were the days.

airplaneboy · Thu May 27, 2021 6:35 pm

CATIIIevery5yrs wrote:
tphuang wrote:
This just shows me again that NK is WN's biggest threat. WN doesn't know how to deal with NK. NK knows that the WN dominated markets are the easiest ones for them to expand in.

Exactly. I’ve been holding back this comment for years, but there’s clearly now enough data to support that statement. In the last 10 years NK has gone into, done well, and grown into areas of strong SWA ops like LAS, MCO, BWI, LAX, AUS, MSY, and apparently now STL.

All true. There is room for both carriers, however. I can’t think of many (or any) markets that WN has ceded to NK. There is a finite demand for NK - the ULCC does not appeal to everyone. Heck, even WN’s better product doesn’t appeal to everyone. There are very few markets where NK has multiple daily frequencies and their target customer is mostly the leisure traveler. WN has more breadth and can capture both leisure and business segments. If you look at NK’s ops in BWI and LAS, which are well established, there hasn’t been very much growth despite gates and facilities being available. They’ll do well in these WN entrenched leisure markets with 1-2 daily frequencies, but I don’t see them going in with 5 daily flights in markets like STL-ORD/MDW or LAX-OAK.

stl07 · Thu May 27, 2021 6:40 pm

Also, for anyone interested, I was able to see these routes last night around 1 or 2 am on the website. I held back on posting about CUN because I didn't believe it and didn't want to sound like a rumor mill.

STLflyer · Thu May 27, 2021 7:18 pm

I'm surprised they held for this long without diverting

Guess they really wanted to get that inaugural flight here.

dcaproducer · Thu May 27, 2021 7:20 pm

WN has a big network, and a lot of connecting traffic, at STL. The really interesting question will be if NK makes a dent in Allegiant's operation at BLV or if the two can coexist with slightly different markets. They will overlap on several routes, although Spirit to the main airports and Allegiant to the secondary airports (mostly).

Jshank83 · Thu May 27, 2021 7:20 pm

STLflyer wrote:
I'm surprised they held for this long without diverting

Guess they really wanted to get that inaugural flight here.

Needs to make to Vegas and back to STL still today. No time for diversions.

TWA302 · Thu May 27, 2021 7:42 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
STLflyer wrote:
I'm surprised they held for this long without diverting

Guess they really wanted to get that inaugural flight here.

Needs to make to Vegas and back to STL still today. No time for diversions.

I am sure that was a fun 1st ride in for NK :-)

Jshank83 · Thu May 27, 2021 8:20 pm

TWA302 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
STLflyer wrote:
I'm surprised they held for this long without diverting

Guess they really wanted to get that inaugural flight here.

Needs to make to Vegas and back to STL still today. No time for diversions.

I am sure that was a fun 1st ride in for NK

I guess its good the morning flight in didn't have any weather issues for the press event. haha.

Jshank83 · Thu May 27, 2021 8:22 pm

April numbers are out.

Up 1200% from 2020
Down 45% from 2019

Now down 25% on the year.

Cargo up 40% on the month
29% on the year

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... 135958.pdf

stl07 · Thu May 27, 2021 11:12 pm

Who recalls the "more BANG for you BUCK" sale NK had when starting service to Colombia

Or the "fares for Canadians so low you will think we are on crack"

or the best one after Anthony Weiner "the Weiner Sale: With fares too hard to resist"

stl07 · Thu May 27, 2021 11:16 pm

dcaproducer wrote:
WN has a big network, and a lot of connecting traffic, at STL. The really interesting question will be if NK makes a dent in Allegiant's operation at BLV or if the two can coexist with slightly different markets. They will overlap on several routes, although Spirit to the main airports and Allegiant to the secondary airports (mostly).

I'm done with G4 after this. They hit every destination apart from the southern beaches strip (SC,GA,JAX) and they fly from the real airports. I was looking for a trip to RSW and was really dreading the drive to BLV and the even longer drive from Punta Gorda

TWA302 · Fri May 28, 2021 2:21 am

Jshank83 wrote:
April numbers are out.

Up 1200% from 2020
Down 45% from 2019

Now down 25% on the year.

Cargo up 40% on the month
29% on the year

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... 135958.pdf

Gonna have a hard time ever shattering that 1200% number.......EVER.

stl07 · Fri May 28, 2021 6:37 am

Just watched the airport press conference, some of the gems were NK's digs at F9 and SY ("we intend to stay in these markets long-term") along with the mayor talking about how great it was the the airport is publicly owned

Jshank83 · Fri May 28, 2021 1:07 pm

UA MYR
G4 CHS

Both start up today. Sounds like the load on MYR is pretty good.

Jshank83 · Fri May 28, 2021 5:21 pm

Had someone tell me this.

Today I actually checked people in for MYR and most of the people are connecting to ORF/IAD/EWR.

So I looked into it and next weekend it is cheaper to connect thru MYR then fly nonstop to EWR. EWR nonstop prices are nuts for the next couple months. Maybe UA needs to put more then 100 seats on it. Crazy.

TWA302 · Fri May 28, 2021 6:09 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Had someone tell me this.

Today I actually checked people in for MYR and most of the people are connecting to ORF/IAD/EWR.

So I looked into it and next weekend it is cheaper to connect thru MYR then fly nonstop to EWR. EWR nonstop prices are nuts for the next couple months. Maybe UA needs to put more then 100 seats on it. Crazy.

Wow, that is nuts.

Jshank83 · Sat May 29, 2021 3:59 pm

For STL. June will have 78% of the seats it did in 2019.
With as full as planes have been I wouldn’t be surprised to see it over 80% based on passengers.

BLV will be over 2019, by quite a bit.
2019- 32 flights a week
2021 - 46 flights a week. Potential to be best month ever.

stl07 · Sat May 29, 2021 7:46 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Had someone tell me this.

Today I actually checked people in for MYR and most of the people are connecting to ORF/IAD/EWR.

So I looked into it and next weekend it is cheaper to connect thru MYR then fly nonstop to EWR. EWR nonstop prices are nuts for the next couple months. Maybe UA needs to put more then 100 seats on it. Crazy.

How do you connect from MYR to ORF?

Nicknuzzii · Sat May 29, 2021 9:26 pm

stl07 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Had someone tell me this.

Today I actually checked people in for MYR and most of the people are connecting to ORF/IAD/EWR.

So I looked into it and next weekend it is cheaper to connect thru MYR then fly nonstop to EWR. EWR nonstop prices are nuts for the next couple months. Maybe UA needs to put more then 100 seats on it. Crazy.

How do you connect from MYR to ORF?

I’m assuming he meant ORD LOL.

Jshank83 · Sat May 29, 2021 9:59 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Had someone tell me this.

Today I actually checked people in for MYR and most of the people are connecting to ORF/IAD/EWR.

So I looked into it and next weekend it is cheaper to connect thru MYR then fly nonstop to EWR. EWR nonstop prices are nuts for the next couple months. Maybe UA needs to put more then 100 seats on it. Crazy.

How do you connect from MYR to ORF?

I’m assuming he meant ORD LOL.

I was told ORF and didn’t pay attention to if they had an HHH flight but it turns out it was CLE.

Today it was 45 of 50. No connections.

stl07 · Sun May 30, 2021 8:12 am

Just wanted to mention something. Apart from the INTL/single destination/EAS carriers, every single airline apart from DL is adding new destinations. Crazy!

stl07 · Sun May 30, 2021 8:55 am

dcaproducer wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
October stats for BLV are out.

October was UP 10 passengers over last year.
Now down 26% on the year.

I am impressed they are actually up over last year for a month.

It only took 20 years, but I think BLV has a good operation with Allegiant. I'm sure they'd like a second carrier for some extra safety, but I don't think that's realistic.
It will be interesting to see what happens as travel rebounds even more and as BLV completes their expansion of the terminal.

I think that UA had flirted with a flight to IAH with them for a bit, but talk were stalled after the NGA went to north city

stl07 · Sun May 30, 2021 9:32 am

stl07 wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
October stats for BLV are out.

October was UP 10 passengers over last year.
Now down 26% on the year.

I am impressed they are actually up over last year for a month.

It only took 20 years, but I think BLV has a good operation with Allegiant. I'm sure they'd like a second carrier for some extra safety, but I don't think that's realistic.
It will be interesting to see what happens as travel rebounds even more and as BLV completes their expansion of the terminal.

I think that UA had flirted with a flight to IAH with them for a bit, but talk were stalled after the NGA went to north city

IAD

dcaproducer · Sun May 30, 2021 1:25 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
For STL. June will have 78% of the seats it did in 2019.
With as full as planes have been I wouldn’t be surprised to see it over 80% based on passengers.

BLV will be over 2019, by quite a bit.
2019- 32 flights a week
2021 - 46 flights a week. Potential to be best month ever.

BLV is going to be busy in June. The airport and Allegiant have a good thing going, and what’s more impressive is that Allegiant is a stable, profitable airline.
They’ve also done a good job to bounce back towards 2019 numbers.
https://ir.allegiantair.com/news-releas ... 21-traffic

stl07 · Mon May 31, 2021 2:36 am

dcaproducer wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
For STL. June will have 78% of the seats it did in 2019.
With as full as planes have been I wouldn’t be surprised to see it over 80% based on passengers.

BLV will be over 2019, by quite a bit.
2019- 32 flights a week
2021 - 46 flights a week. Potential to be best month ever.

BLV is going to be busy in June. The airport and Allegiant have a good thing going, and what’s more impressive is that Allegiant is a stable, profitable airline.
They’ve also done a good job to bounce back towards 2019 numbers.
https://ir.allegiantair.com/news-releas ... 21-traffic

Spirit is going to be a new thorn in their skin though with the competitive advantage of flying to the real cities on both ends (apart for the one city, PIE, where the g4 airport is closer to the beach than TPA) and daily service

stlgph · Mon May 31, 2021 3:06 pm

"Real cities" ???
Not sure what we're going for here...

stlgph · Mon May 31, 2021 3:07 pm

dcaproducer wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
For STL. June will have 78% of the seats it did in 2019.
With as full as planes have been I wouldn’t be surprised to see it over 80% based on passengers.

BLV will be over 2019, by quite a bit.
2019- 32 flights a week
2021 - 46 flights a week. Potential to be best month ever.

BLV is going to be busy in June. The airport and Allegiant have a good thing going, and what’s more impressive is that Allegiant is a stable, profitable airline.
They’ve also done a good job to bounce back towards 2019 numbers.
https://ir.allegiantair.com/news-releas ... 21-traffic

An interesting evolution here, indeed.
Considering it was once 2 flights per week - then four - then NONE for a stretch of time.
And now, here we are.

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