stlgph wrote:

dcaproducer wrote:

stlgph wrote:

Just because *YOU* dont know somebody doesn't mean people don't do it.

Show me the stats of where BLV’s passengers are coming from. And I didn’t say no one does it. I said no one I know does it.
Regardless, NK will find its own customer base at STL, some of whom likely wouldn’t travel to BLV.

Even better. I know a group of 8 who drove from Collinsville to Peoria to fly Allegiant to Las Vegas last week because it was a better deal.

You say things of this nature all the time about Belleville vs. STL in a matter of fact nature when it's not matter of fact, at all. But by all means, keep posting just to keep posting.

I say things of this nature all the time? What are you referring to? Specifically. And if I’m wrong, post sources to back up your claim.
I also said of people I know in West County. And yes, of 70+ family members I have in the STL area, none of them would think of crossing the river into Illinois.

I’d be curious to see where BLV’s passengers are coming from.

Jfc, I never realized it was THAT big of a deal to find out who flies in/out of BLV based of personal knowledge of family, friends, etc.

Jshank83 wrote:

pmanni1 wrote:

AA finally bringing back LAX on a 738 in May. With the addition of NK that makes 3 carriers on this route.

Nice. It means we have all our pre covid destinations back on AA.

I wonder if the NK add pushed it up a bit.

Or the massive check that they are getting from the government to keep things alive. No matter what, I am glad to see flights on the rebound as well as new growth.

reednavy wrote:

Jfc, I never realized it was THAT big of a deal to find out who flies in/out of BLV based of personal knowledge of family, friends, etc.

I was about to say I think this argument about if people in St. Chuck drive to BLV has about run its course. Obviously, a majority of BLVs travelers are goin to be from IL/STL City/County but I am sure they draw a decent amount from further out. I know people who drive from out west to BLV. Usually it is for flights to places STL doesn't have like MYR, VPS, SAV, JAX (until this week), etc. They want nonstops over connections and the extra drive saves them time in the long run. Again, small percentage but it is not negligible.

But anyway. I think G4 and NK will both do fine. The biggest thing I noticed is that's NKs prices are too high in my mind. They will get business on name recognition but I thought their prices would be about half of what they are, especially to Florida. G4 and F9 run about half the price of NK a fair amount.

Example STL/BLV-MCO/SFB

July 4th weekend
July 1
G4 - $92
F9 - $138
WN - $158
NK - $221

July 4th (return)
G4 - $74
F9 - $138
WN - $158
NK - $221

Making the drive to BLV save a bunch of money or you are taking WN with a family of 4 and prices like that.


Non holiday weekend

June 17
G4 - $92
F9 - $117
NK - $131
WN - $158

June 20 (return)
June 17
G4 - $93
NK - $131
F9 - $138
WN - $158


So anyway my overall point is G4 prices so much lower to start that I think they will do fine, including also factoring in I think their location helps them by not being at STL. G4 doesn't fly every day so if you really need to fly a day they don't fly, then that obviously hurt them.

I think NK would benefit more by being lower priced. I think I starting price under 100 would help. I think they need to be a fair amount lower than WN or people will just fly WN. But they obviously know what they are doing. If you look at MCI NKs prices are more in the $40-$70 range to MCO/LAX a lot. That is where they are going to have to be here or the legacies and WN can just easily match them if they are going to run prices at $120. That's what they already had been pricing them at half the time anyway.

Jshank83 wrote:

reednavy wrote:

Jfc, I never realized it was THAT big of a deal to find out who flies in/out of BLV based of personal knowledge of family, friends, etc.

I was about to say I think this argument about if people in St. Chuck drive to BLV has about run its course. Obviously, a majority of BLVs travelers are goin to be from IL/STL City/County but I am sure they draw a decent amount from further out. I know people who drive from out west to BLV. Usually it is for flights to places STL doesn't have like MYR, VPS, SAV, JAX (until this week), etc. They want nonstops over connections and the extra drive saves them time in the long run. Again, small percentage but it is not negligible.

But anyway. I think G4 and NK will both do fine. The biggest thing I noticed is that's NKs prices are too high in my mind. They will get business on name recognition but I thought their prices would be about half of what they are, especially to Florida. G4 and F9 run about half the price of NK a fair amount.

Example STL/BLV-MCO/SFB

July 4th weekend
July 1
G4 - $92
F9 - $138
WN - $158
NK - $221

July 4th (return)
G4 - $74
F9 - $138
WN - $158
NK - $221

Making the drive to BLV save a bunch of money or you are taking WN with a family of 4 and prices like that.


Non holiday weekend

June 17
G4 - $92
F9 - $117
NK - $131
WN - $158

June 20 (return)
June 17
G4 - $93
NK - $131
F9 - $138
WN - $158


So anyway my overall point is G4 prices so much lower to start that I think they will do fine, including also factoring in I think their location helps them by not being at STL. G4 doesn't fly every day so if you really need to fly a day they don't fly, then that obviously hurt them.

I think NK would benefit more by being lower priced. I think I starting price under 100 would help. I think they need to be a fair amount lower than WN or people will just fly WN. But they obviously know what they are doing. If you look at MCI NKs prices are more in the $40-$70 range to MCO/LAX a lot. That is where they are going to have to be here or the legacies and WN can just easily match them if they are going to run prices at $120. That's what they already had been pricing them at half the time anyway.

Those prices do seem a tad high. I’m sure they’ve done some research on the market.
I haven’t looked at NK in a long long time. I was curious about fares. I looked at random April long weekends BWI-FLL and they’re $243. WN is $439. Both nonstop, both with flights departing about the same time.

I didn’t mean to debate the airports. My point from the beginning is that I think NK will find a good customer base at STL.

Anecdotal point regarding NK pricing:
I'm looking to fly STL-FLL and back May 27-30. Southwest and Spirit have near identical flight times (though of course WN has two flights a day to NK's one).
Roundtrip pricing:
Spirit is $160
Southwest is $390 (lowest)

UA finally bringing SFO back on May 6th and WN bringing it back May 9th. I know UA has updated their schedule for May not sure if WN has and if it will stick.

pmanni1 wrote:

UA finally bringing SFO back on May 6th and WN bringing it back May 9th. I know UA has updated their schedule for May not sure if WN has and if it will stick.

Neither have updated their May schedule.

Nicknuzzii wrote:

pmanni1 wrote:

UA finally bringing SFO back on May 6th and WN bringing it back May 9th. I know UA has updated their schedule for May not sure if WN has and if it will stick.

Neither have updated their May schedule.

I was going off of the crankyflier website and as of yesterday he's saying they did. But who knows?? https://crankyflier.com/2021/03/15/may- ... o-bulk-up/

pmanni1 wrote:

Nicknuzzii wrote:

pmanni1 wrote:

UA finally bringing SFO back on May 6th and WN bringing it back May 9th. I know UA has updated their schedule for May not sure if WN has and if it will stick.

Neither have updated their May schedule.

I was going off of the crankyflier website and as of yesterday he's saying they did. But who knows?? https://crankyflier.com/2021/03/15/may- ... o-bulk-up/

Yeah definitely just poor word choice on his part, but I can assure you that they do not intend to fly routes like EWR-DCA 13x a day in May, lol.

2nd^. UA just updated April like a week ago. May isn’t updated yet.

We are obviously a long way out and it can change but AA's flight to CUN is on the schedule again starting in December. So hopefully that stays.

It also looks as is F9 is keeping CUN/PUJ for next year also. Those I would guess are a little more firm.

BLV submitted an application for a SCASDP grant for additional low-cost service:


https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -0231-0007

Midwestindy wrote:

BLV submitted an application for a SCASDP grant for additional low-cost service:


https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -0231-0007

BLV is listed as a potential destination on Breeze's wikipedia page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeze_Airways

Midwestindy wrote:

BLV submitted an application for a SCASDP grant for additional low-cost service:


https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -0231-0007

Wow. One heck of a proposal and now the airport's expansion plan comes into full view for what they are wanting to do. 100% Allegiant expansion.

Below is what is proposed from a grant standpoint.

The total project amount in this Small Community Air Service Development (SCASD) Grant Program application is $650,000, of which $300,000 is earmarked for start-up cost offsets for new service and a potential base (refer to chart 11). The other $350,000 is set aside for marketing of each new route. The entire amount will not be used for any single route, but smaller chunks of funding will be used as routes are added.
The Airport will also offer landing fees waivers for each new route for a period of 12 months. The waivers are considered “in-kind” and are not a part of the cash involved in this project. They will also depend on
the aircraft used and the cost of each landing based on the service pattern.

This part has to be Allegiant related

MidAmerica St. Louis Airport seeks to expand low cost airline service in the greater St. Louis
metro area. It will leverage local support and a Small Community Air Service Development
Grant award to provide start-up cost offsets and marketing support for low cost carriers
launching service on new routes to targeted destinations. It also seeks to leverage funding to
secure a carrier’s crew and aircraft base.


Also I see their target markets are OAK, DEN, BWI, EWR, LAX, SNA, SAN

Jshank83 wrote:

This part has to be Allegiant related

MidAmerica St. Louis Airport seeks to expand low cost airline service in the greater St. Louis
metro area. It will leverage local support and a Small Community Air Service Development
Grant award to provide start-up cost offsets and marketing support for low cost carriers
launching service on new routes to targeted destinations. It also seeks to leverage funding to
secure a carrier’s crew and aircraft base.


Also I see their target markets are OAK, DEN, BWI, EWR, LAX, SNA, SAN

One would gather as they had a letter of support within the proposal. Really cool to see BLV growing at levels nobody could have imagined.

TWA302 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

This part has to be Allegiant related

MidAmerica St. Louis Airport seeks to expand low cost airline service in the greater St. Louis
metro area. It will leverage local support and a Small Community Air Service Development
Grant award to provide start-up cost offsets and marketing support for low cost carriers
launching service on new routes to targeted destinations. It also seeks to leverage funding to
secure a carrier’s crew and aircraft base.


Also I see their target markets are OAK, DEN, BWI, EWR, LAX, SNA, SAN

One would gather as they had a letter of support within the proposal. Really cool to see BLV growing at levels nobody could have imagined.

I was pretty sure a base had to be included with the reason for the expansion but wouldn't have guessed those as the 7 markets they are seeking. Hopefully it pans out.

TWA302 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

This part has to be Allegiant related

MidAmerica St. Louis Airport seeks to expand low cost airline service in the greater St. Louis
metro area. It will leverage local support and a Small Community Air Service Development
Grant award to provide start-up cost offsets and marketing support for low cost carriers
launching service on new routes to targeted destinations. It also seeks to leverage funding to
secure a carrier’s crew and aircraft base.


Also I see their target markets are OAK, DEN, BWI, EWR, LAX, SNA, SAN

One would gather as they had a letter of support within the proposal. Really cool to see BLV growing at levels nobody could have imagined.

The letter from Allegiant is very interesting and worth a read. That seems to show they are committed to the airport. It's always why BLV is probably rushing to expand the terminal, which is good.

I also find the filing odd that it calls out COVID related reductions at STL, which will likely bounce back fairly quickly.

I hope it works out for the airport. I think Allegiant can continue to build on their operation.

Jshank83 wrote:

This part has to be Allegiant related

MidAmerica St. Louis Airport seeks to expand low cost airline service in the greater St. Louis
metro area. It will leverage local support and a Small Community Air Service Development
Grant award to provide start-up cost offsets and marketing support for low cost carriers
launching service on new routes to targeted destinations. It also seeks to leverage funding to
secure a carrier’s crew and aircraft base.


Also I see their target markets are OAK, DEN, BWI, EWR, LAX, SNA, SAN

Another line from it in respect to timeline.

"The Airport and its partners have already started discussions with Allegiant about the potential to develop a base at MidAmerica
and about the targeted expansion. Because Allegiant is familiar with the business plan, the Airport anticipates completing an agreement for additional service by the fall of 2021 (refer to chart 13). The Airport is targeting spring of 2022 as a start date for the first new route launch, with more new routes being rolled out over a period of two years."

Jshank83 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

This part has to be Allegiant related

MidAmerica St. Louis Airport seeks to expand low cost airline service in the greater St. Louis
metro area. It will leverage local support and a Small Community Air Service Development
Grant award to provide start-up cost offsets and marketing support for low cost carriers
launching service on new routes to targeted destinations. It also seeks to leverage funding to
secure a carrier’s crew and aircraft base.


Also I see their target markets are OAK, DEN, BWI, EWR, LAX, SNA, SAN

Another line from it in respect to timeline.

"The Airport and its partners have already started discussions with Allegiant about the potential to develop a base at MidAmerica
and about the targeted expansion. Because Allegiant is familiar with the business plan, the Airport anticipates completing an agreement for additional service by the fall of 2021 (refer to chart 13). The Airport is targeting spring of 2022 as a start date for the first new route launch, with more new routes being rolled out over a period of two years."

Is it me, or did BLV just launch a new website site?
https://flymidamerica.com/

This is nice and updated since the last time I was on their site.

dcaproducer wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

This part has to be Allegiant related

MidAmerica St. Louis Airport seeks to expand low cost airline service in the greater St. Louis
metro area. It will leverage local support and a Small Community Air Service Development
Grant award to provide start-up cost offsets and marketing support for low cost carriers
launching service on new routes to targeted destinations. It also seeks to leverage funding to
secure a carrier’s crew and aircraft base.


Also I see their target markets are OAK, DEN, BWI, EWR, LAX, SNA, SAN

Another line from it in respect to timeline.

"The Airport and its partners have already started discussions with Allegiant about the potential to develop a base at MidAmerica
and about the targeted expansion. Because Allegiant is familiar with the business plan, the Airport anticipates completing an agreement for additional service by the fall of 2021 (refer to chart 13). The Airport is targeting spring of 2022 as a start date for the first new route launch, with more new routes being rolled out over a period of two years."

Is it me, or did BLV just launch a new website site?
https://flymidamerica.com/

This is nice and updated since the last time I was on their site.

It is new and a million times better.

Jshank83 wrote:

dcaproducer wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

Another line from it in respect to timeline.

"The Airport and its partners have already started discussions with Allegiant about the potential to develop a base at MidAmerica
and about the targeted expansion. Because Allegiant is familiar with the business plan, the Airport anticipates completing an agreement for additional service by the fall of 2021 (refer to chart 13). The Airport is targeting spring of 2022 as a start date for the first new route launch, with more new routes being rolled out over a period of two years."

Is it me, or did BLV just launch a new website site?
https://flymidamerica.com/

This is nice and updated since the last time I was on their site.

It is new and a million times better.

Agreed! Using those marketing dollars well!

Just booked a WN flight home to STL from LAX for 89!!

Thank you NK!

Midwestindy wrote:

BLV submitted an application for a SCASDP grant for additional low-cost service:


https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -0231-0007

I'm sure the west coast routes will be a success, but I'm intrigued about the other 3.

stl07 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

BLV submitted an application for a SCASDP grant for additional low-cost service:


https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -0231-0007

I'm sure the west coast routes will be a success, but I'm intrigued about the other 3.

I don't really get Denver with all the competition on it already (including F9). I don't get BWI either really. The rest I think would be fine if you are only running them a couple times week.

If they pull this off I'm gonna laugh my ass off. Service to both coasts and almost every vacation destination in the south nonstop from BLV of all place

Upon revisiting this, I feel like this money is going to go to an actual small town wanting service and not BLV

stl07 wrote:

Upon revisiting this, I feel like this money is going to go to an actual small town wanting service and not BLV

Isn't that what EAS is for? What leads you to believe that this? Looks like that this grant for 2021 has about $18M available for this program.

There are a few non-overnight NK connections possible through Fort Lauderdale (like STI and SJU). But that 10:49pm arrival time in FLL is still a problem for cnx.

TWA302 wrote:

stl07 wrote:

Upon revisiting this, I feel like this money is going to go to an actual small town wanting service and not BLV

Isn't that what EAS is for? What leads you to believe that this? Looks like that this grant for 2021 has about $18M available for this program.

I get the feeling this is happening either way but they are just hoping they can get the feds to kick in money. Worth a shot. They have been really good at finding ways to get money from the feds for things.

Jshank83 wrote:

TWA302 wrote:

stl07 wrote:

Upon revisiting this, I feel like this money is going to go to an actual small town wanting service and not BLV

Isn't that what EAS is for? What leads you to believe that this? Looks like that this grant for 2021 has about $18M available for this program.

I get the feeling this is happening either way but they are just hoping they can get the feds to kick in money. Worth a shot. They have been really good at finding ways to get money from the feds for things.

This 100%. It sounds like BLV and Allegiant have a plan. They’re just trying to see if someone else will pay for it. I think BLV is going to play a bigger role in Allegiant’s network, hence why the airport that lost money for a long time, is suddenly doubling the size of the terminal.

Delta updated their May schedule.

3rd daily flight to Salt Lake City added.

ATL 6x
SLC/MSP/DTW 3x
LGA 2x

Stl-MIA starts on WN may 9th. Daily.
PNS goes to 5 days a week. I’m sure NK had a little to do with that.
OAK/SEA/SJC back on the schedule.

Wneast wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

Stl-MIA starts on WN may 9th. Daily.
PNS goes to 5 days a week. I’m sure NK had a little to do with that.

Where did you see this ?

If you plug them in the schedule they just updated May 9-15

Wneast wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

Wneast wrote:

Where did you see this ?

If you plug them in the schedule they just updated May 9-15[/ why is it only updated for that long though ?

They have been doing weird updates. One day they do part then the next day they do the rest of the month. Not sure why. It usually ends up being the same schedule for both though.

Wneast wrote:

Wneast wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

They have been doing weird updates. One day they do part then the next day they do the rest of the month. Not sure why. It usually ends up being the same schedule for both though.

I wonder if it them doing a update to the schedule on Thursday because i think when they added The last two cites they did this on Sunday and Monday night ?

Or doing a full schedule update sometime this week maybe with the new city routes too ?

They are updating things about weekly now but I have no clue when they plan to announce cities for the new ones. MYR would need to be soon

Jshank83 wrote:

Stl-MIA starts on WN may 9th. Daily.
PNS goes to 5 days a week. I’m sure NK had a little to do with that.
OAK/SEA/SJC back on the schedule.

And the 2nd LAX flight got removed for a bit. I know because I just got an email saying I am rebooked via PHX

stl07 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

Stl-MIA starts on WN may 9th. Daily.
PNS goes to 5 days a week. I’m sure NK had a little to do with that.
OAK/SEA/SJC back on the schedule.

And the 2nd LAX flight got removed for a bit. I know because I just got an email saying I am rebooked via PHX

Seems like with the LGB add they are waiting to add the 2nd LAX back.

Jshank83 wrote:

stl07 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

Stl-MIA starts on WN may 9th. Daily.
PNS goes to 5 days a week. I’m sure NK had a little to do with that.
OAK/SEA/SJC back on the schedule.

And the 2nd LAX flight got removed for a bit. I know because I just got an email saying I am rebooked via PHX

Seems like with the LGB add they are waiting to add the 2nd LAX back.

LBG isn't daily anymore either. Upon getting the email I immediately checked flights out of LGB, and there were none. I think by summer it all straightens out

stl07 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

stl07 wrote:

And the 2nd LAX flight got removed for a bit. I know because I just got an email saying I am rebooked via PHX

Seems like with the LGB add they are waiting to add the 2nd LAX back.

LBG isn't daily anymore either. Upon getting the email I immediately checked flights out of LGB, and there were none. I think by summer it all straightens out

Ahh. I see in the update it isn’t running Saturdays. I didn’t realize they only were running it 4 days a week in the April (bleed a week into May) schedule.

Jshank83 wrote:

stl07 wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

Seems like with the LGB add they are waiting to add the 2nd LAX back.

LBG isn't daily anymore either. Upon getting the email I immediately checked flights out of LGB, and there were none. I think by summer it all straightens out

Ahh. I see in the update it isn’t running Saturdays. I didn’t realize they only were running it 4 days a week in the April (bleed a week into May) schedule.

I didn't either. Really took me by surprise!

The twice daily ABX 767-200s have now been replaced by one daily (at night too) Atlas Air 767-300s. Amazon Air recently went through a big schedule update that seems to correspond to this.

Whoever updates the flystl.com website has been asleep at the wheel. NK is not even listed as an airline, LGB is not listed as a destination, BOS,MBJ,PNS,ECP,RDU,JAX,SJC show no carrier. CLT doesn't show WN flies there. DCA & LGA don't show AA flies there. Quite a disservice to be so inaccurate!