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gdavis003
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Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:59 am

Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:32 pm

Spacepope wrote:
CoThG wrote:
DHL near disaster in Leipzig. http://avherald.com/h?article=4e2fd449&opt=0



Yikes! Glad to read nobody was injured but I REALLY want to see some photos of the aftermath. Based on the writeup it sounds like the cargo door might be near that coal plant and no longer attached to the aircraft.


Incredible. Aircraft is still in tact, and the door is STILL ON! How crazy is that. This one is a Precision conversion, kudos to the folks at Precision for some remarkable engineering that kept this bird in tact and the door still on. https://twitter.com/breakingavnews/stat ... 08001?s=20
 
Qantas744er
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:33 pm

Spacepope wrote:
CoThG wrote:
DHL near disaster in Leipzig. http://avherald.com/h?article=4e2fd449&opt=0



Yikes! Glad to read nobody was injured but I REALLY want to see some photos of the aftermath. Based on the writeup it sounds like the cargo door might be near that coal plant and no longer attached to the aircraft.


Ask and you shall receive: https://twitter.com/breakingavnews/stat ... 08001?s=21

The door remained attached! Looks like only some of the door cladding/insulation said bye bye.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:40 pm

Qantas744er wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
CoThG wrote:
DHL near disaster in Leipzig. http://avherald.com/h?article=4e2fd449&opt=0



Yikes! Glad to read nobody was injured but I REALLY want to see some photos of the aftermath. Based on the writeup it sounds like the cargo door might be near that coal plant and no longer attached to the aircraft.


Ask and you shall receive: https://twitter.com/breakingavnews/stat ... 08001?s=21

The door remained attached! Looks like only some of the door cladding/insulation said bye bye.


Outstanding! I'm truly surprised how well it held together (i mean, after the not holding closed part)

If I were onboard that brown smear on the side of the fuselage would have been much larger though.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
wjcandee
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:49 pm

Spacepope wrote:
CoThG wrote:
DHL near disaster in Leipzig. http://avherald.com/h?article=4e2fd449&opt=0



Yikes! Glad to read nobody was injured but I REALLY want to see some photos of the aftermath. Based on the writeup it sounds like the cargo door might be near that coal plant and no longer attached to the aircraft.


Cargo door is still attached. Possibly pieces of it came off, but it's still attached in the photo posted on AvHerald. The real concern is that it can change the handling characteristics of the aircraft when open. (Viz. Logair 931 [Evergreen on a military flight].)
 
twincommander
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:17 pm

That looks like a PC door. If so, it will have fail safes that should have prevented this from happening.

The door in the picture is FULL open, so im going to suspect a fault in the control box. The box is right next to the L1 door.
 
wjcandee
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:39 pm

twincommander wrote:
That looks like a PC door. If so, it will have fail safes that should have prevented this from happening.

The door in the picture is FULL open, so im going to suspect a fault in the control box. The box is right next to the L1 door.


Correct. This is a PCF.

The fact that it's full-open in the photo while the a/c is being pulled by a tug doesn't necessarily indicate its in-flight position. That said, chances are that you are correct, or it was pulled full-open (as in the Evergreen accident) by airflow as the aircraft maneuvered. I'm assuming that the airline and regulators realize that this is way bad and needs to be figured out and future-proofed in a jiffy.
 
twincommander
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:56 pm

wjcandee wrote:
twincommander wrote:
That looks like a PC door. If so, it will have fail safes that should have prevented this from happening.

The door in the picture is FULL open, so im going to suspect a fault in the control box. The box is right next to the L1 door.


Correct. This is a PCF.

The fact that it's full-open in the photo while the a/c is being pulled by a tug doesn't necessarily indicate its in-flight position. That said, chances are that you are correct, or it was pulled full-open (as in the Evergreen accident) by airflow as the aircraft maneuvered. I'm assuming that the airline and regulators realize that this is way bad and needs to be figured out and future-proofed in a jiffy.


Something else i just thought of...

The earlier doors had issues with the "through pins" (as i call them) that locked the latches and made contact with the lock switches. I had a door that kept having this issue and we found these pins were not to spec (too short). The mfg seemed to have corrected this with an improved part. Its been a few years since I have played with a PCF, but my thinking isnt toward the control box anymore...
 
CoThG
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:57 pm

wjcandee wrote:
twincommander wrote:
That looks like a PC door. If so, it will have fail safes that should have prevented this from happening.

The door in the picture is FULL open, so im going to suspect a fault in the control box. The box is right next to the L1 door.


Correct. This is a PCF.

The fact that it's full-open in the photo while the a/c is being pulled by a tug doesn't necessarily indicate its in-flight position. That said, chances are that you are correct, or it was pulled full-open (as in the Evergreen accident) by airflow as the aircraft maneuvered. I'm assuming that the airline and regulators realize that this is way bad and needs to be figured out and future-proofed in a jiffy.



Don't be surprised by the FAA issuing an emergency AD, grounding US registered 757Fs, both factory and converted models until they get the bottom of what happened.
 
bigbird
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:40 pm

This happened on a converted Convair 880 in MIA a number of years ago. It landed safely also.
bigbird from georgia
 
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Spacepope
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:44 pm

bigbird wrote:
This happened on a converted Convair 880 in MIA a number of years ago. It landed safely also.


And a DC-8 as well.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
wjcandee
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 14, 2021 12:41 am

CoThG wrote:
Don't be surprised by the FAA issuing an emergency AD, grounding US registered 757Fs, both factory and converted models until they get the bottom of what happened.


Certainly the industry would push back hard against that, FedEx and UPS being major operators of the type. Fortunately, everyone lived, unlike the Evergreen (Logair* 931) accident, and hopefully an (honest) crew interview and look at the switch hardware can pick up a likely cause pretty quickly. (In Evergreen, it was a combination of hinky switches, an FO that didn't hold the handle in position long enough, and mis-aligned arrows pointing to what the fully-closed position was, plus the fact that in looking at the cargo door from the passenger doorway, you couldn't tell that it was slightly-open the way you could from the ground.)

(*At the time, a callsign for US Military domestic cargo flights, specifically the former US Air Force Logistics Command's transportation component. No longer used. Logair, among other things, hauled around parts for strategic missiles when needed ricky-tick for maintenance and repair. Presumably, that was the kind of mission the Evergreen DC9F was involved in that day.)
 
A380MSN004
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:50 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Presumably the one going to PTY is N344AN, currently at QPG since 9/22/20. I do recall someone saying that the ones in QPG were being delayed due to Covid, but I guess not.

The next one for DHL likely won't be done in MEX until late-April. The next one out of QPG likely late-June. And then one more from MEX in like July.


A380MSN004 wrote:
Do you have an idea what DHL will do with the -200F in Bahrain? Do they have enough remaining life for another operator or will they scrap them ?

The six 767-200s at DHX are all former ABX aircraft, and all leased from CAM. So if they come back to CAM from DHL/DHX, it would be up to CAM to decide what to do with them. Five were leased to DHX in 2017-2018, when they were all in the low-40,000 cycle range. One was leased in late 2015, but should presently have similar cycles to the others. All have GE engines. If you figure 600-700 cycles per year, all would have 4-to-5 years of service left before their LOV. If DHX flies them a little-harder, and they get 1000 cycles a year out of them, then they would be closer to their LOV by mid-2022-2023.

I don't know the terms of the DHX leases, whether replacing them slowly with 767-300s over the next 12-18 months would be early terminations requiring DHL to put them somewhere else, or what. Hard to believe they weren't leased for at least 5 years, but one never knows. I know that at least two CAM 767-200s are expected to go to Raya, but I assumed that those would be N745AX and N747AX, which are recent West Atlantic lease returns. So the short answer, I guess, is that if they're at moderate use, they likely have more than enough cycles left before their LOV to faithfully-serve another lessee for 4-5 years, if somebody wants to fly them. If DHX is flying them harder, and getting 1000-1100 cycles per year out of them, they'll only have 1-2 years left before their LOV. A little like where N752AX was when CAM appears to have retired her rather than C-check her.


Amazing wjcandee, thanks. If 4-5 years left before their LOV, they might be interesting for exotic carriers such as Raya / Astral or another one.
Apparently Astral is more looking at 757s at the moment according to Astral CEO itw you posted last week.
Wait and see but definitely would be great to see those frames flying until their LOV.

BTW : I assume it's not cheap but what an aircraft owner have to do with the authorities to fly a frame above the LOV ?
 
jeffrey0032j
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:29 pm

CoThG wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
twincommander wrote:
That looks like a PC door. If so, it will have fail safes that should have prevented this from happening.

The door in the picture is FULL open, so im going to suspect a fault in the control box. The box is right next to the L1 door.


Correct. This is a PCF.

The fact that it's full-open in the photo while the a/c is being pulled by a tug doesn't necessarily indicate its in-flight position. That said, chances are that you are correct, or it was pulled full-open (as in the Evergreen accident) by airflow as the aircraft maneuvered. I'm assuming that the airline and regulators realize that this is way bad and needs to be figured out and future-proofed in a jiffy.



Don't be surprised by the FAA issuing an emergency AD, grounding US registered 757Fs, both factory and converted models until they get the bottom of what happened.

Why would they ground all 757Fs? Note that this is a third party STC conversion by Precision. The Boeing SF conversion and factory freighters are separately engineered from the Precision program.
 
N27UADIESEL8
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:04 am

wjcandee wrote:
Presumably the one going to PTY is N344AN, currently at QPG since 9/22/20. I do recall someone saying that the ones in QPG were being delayed due to Covid, but I guess not.

The next one for DHL likely won't be done in MEX until late-April. The next one out of QPG likely late-June. And then one more from MEX in like July.


A380MSN004 wrote:
Do you have an idea what DHL will do with the -200F in Bahrain? Do they have enough remaining life for another operator or will they scrap them ?

The six 767-200s at DHX are all former ABX aircraft, and all leased from CAM. So if they come back to CAM from DHL/DHX, it would be up to CAM to decide what to do with them. Five were leased to DHX in 2017-2018, when they were all in the low-40,000 cycle range. One was leased in late 2015, but should presently have similar cycles to the others. All have GE engines. If you figure 600-700 cycles per year, all would have 4-to-5 years of service left before their LOV. If DHX flies them a little-harder, and they get 1000 cycles a year out of them, then they would be closer to their LOV by mid-2022-2023.

I don't know the terms of the DHX leases, whether replacing them slowly with 767-300s over the next 12-18 months would be early terminations requiring DHL to put them somewhere else, or what. Hard to believe they weren't leased for at least 5 years, but one never knows. I know that at least two CAM 767-200s are expected to go to Raya, but I assumed that those would be N745AX and N747AX, which are recent West Atlantic lease returns. So the short answer, I guess, is that if they're at moderate use, they likely have more than enough cycles left before their LOV to faithfully-serve another lessee for 4-5 years, if somebody wants to fly them. If DHX is flying them harder, and getting 1000-1100 cycles per year out of them, they'll only have 1-2 years left before their LOV. A little like where N752AX was when CAM appears to have retired her rather than C-check her.



Wjcandee, I think you are correct. I wrote somewhere the N registration for the HP3410 but cant find it now.

The issue with QPG was that they were not allowing an airline rep due to COVID.

Also you are correct, the -200F are CAM aircraft so most likely will go back to them. Don't know the lease details of the DHX leases but I believe they will be replaced 1 to 1.
Fine Air flight 101 never again..............
 
wjcandee
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:12 am

N27UADIESEL8 wrote:
The issue with QPG was that they were not allowing an airline rep due to COVID.

Also you are correct, the -200F are CAM aircraft so most likely will go back to them. Don't know the lease details of the DHX leases but I believe they will be replaced 1 to 1.


Makes sense! It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
 
QF744ER
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:02 am

Saw a photo yesterday of N344AN airborne out of QPG, wearing full DHL livery with rego taped on alongside what I can only presume is the national flag of Panama, but it looks to of been applied back-to-front.
 
wjcandee
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:27 am

QF744ER wrote:
Saw a photo yesterday of N344AN airborne out of QPG, wearing full DHL livery with rego taped on alongside what I can only presume is the national flag of Panama, but it looks to of been applied back-to-front.


And it's now at PTY, after passing through the US at Opa Locka.
 
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Harvestman
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:11 am

N744CK is now wearing a giant blue mask on its nose cone. Something to look out for.
 
avi8
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:35 am

I have a question: Does anyone see DHL Guatemala growing its fleet or being eliminated and replaced by Aeroexpreso? I wonder how efficient it is to have just one aircraft at DHL Guatemala.
avi8
 
MrBryan86
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:16 am

Anyone has any idea when will N343AN leave Roswell to be sent for freighter conversion? And which facility will be used? I presume QPG seeing that N344AN was delivered recently?
 
darloscott
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:58 pm

Interesting news from DHL in Europe in that the A321P2F will be joining the fleet - the two aircraft will be operated by Smartlynx Malta. From my lists they currently have two aircraft in conversion - units 891 and 1017, to be leased from Vallair. 891 is at Sanford being done by Precision and 1017 is in Guangzhou performed by ST Engineering.

https://www.dhl.com/global-en/home/pres ... ation.html

Also mentioned elsewhere is the fact Mesa will operate a 3rd B734F for DHL from May 2021.
 
wjcandee
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:13 pm

darloscott wrote:
Interesting news from DHL in Europe in that the A321P2F will be joining the fleet ... .]

https://www.dhl.com/global-en/home/pres ... ation.html.


What a weird, treacly, self-congratulatory, over-the-top press release. (Shudder.) You would think they were describing Atlas, when in fact the whole group has a limited number of aircraft.

However, kudos to them for doing what Sun Country did, which was to take their experience operating a passenger version of a type, and offer their services to a new freight customer.

Now we know where the prototype 321 Precision Conversions aircraft will go once certified. It also suggests that while the uptake of the type may be a tad slow in the US, Green-conscious DHL may well put it in a lot of places around the world, for precisely the reasons mentioned in the press release. The 738 has a head start, but I really do think this will be a winner for EFW and ATSG/Precision. ATSG recently announced that 321 Precision Conversions was going to use PEMCO in TPA for the touch work (with maybe some foreign partners down the road), and that's great for a lot of reasons.

On another note, I think that Mesa will surprise people with the job it does on the 734 operations for DHL. But we'll see. It bid way senior, according to posts on APC.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:42 pm

Condor Germany through the end of May will operate 4 767s on behalf of DHL.

https://www.dhl.com/global-en/home/pres ... press.html
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
wjcandee
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 25, 2021 6:38 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Condor Germany through the end of May will operate 4 767s on behalf of DHL.

https://www.dhl.com/global-en/home/pres ... press.html


Next joke please. I mean, if DHL had converted aircraft available for Condor to fly, super. Welcome to the DHL Dance.

But this is more inefficient "carry it into the cabin" stuff. Condor calls this "converting" its aircraft to "pure cargo", which is nonsense.
 
oldJoe
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 25, 2021 7:53 pm

wccandee wrote :
What a weird, treacly, self-congratulatory, over-the-top press release. (Shudder.) You would think they were describing Atlas, when in fact the whole group has a limited number of aircraft.


Weird for me is only your comparison !
It`s far fetched to compare Atlas Air Worldwide Holdings with a fleet of 118 A/C and ~ 3600 employees vs. DHL Worldwide Express with 186 A/C and ~380000 employees.
 
wjcandee
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 25, 2021 8:55 pm

oldJoe wrote:
wccandee wrote :
What a weird, treacly, self-congratulatory, over-the-top press release. (Shudder.) You would think they were describing Atlas, when in fact the whole group has a limited number of aircraft.


Weird for me is only your comparison !
It`s far fetched to compare Atlas Air Worldwide Holdings with a fleet of 118 A/C and ~ 3600 employees vs. DHL Worldwide Express with 186 A/C and ~380000 employees.


No, Dude, I was saying you would think SmartLynx's fleet (at its several affiliated airlines) was the size of Atlas's from reading that release.

COMPARISON: SmartLynx to Atlas.

The entire SmartLynx group of airlines appears to have something like 14 narrowbodies, of which only a single aircraft currently appears to be flying. The Press Release makes them sound like a dominant operator and world leader in A320 operation.

Also, CLUE: DHL's quantum of employees includes hundreds of thousands who aren't connected to their air operation.
 
oldJoe
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:20 pm

wjcandee wrote:
oldJoe wrote:
wccandee wrote :
What a weird, treacly, self-congratulatory, over-the-top press release. (Shudder.) You would think they were describing Atlas, when in fact the whole group has a limited number of aircraft.


Weird for me is only your comparison !
It`s far fetched to compare Atlas Air Worldwide Holdings with a fleet of 118 A/C and ~ 3600 employees vs. DHL Worldwide Express with 186 A/C and ~380000 employees.


No, Dude, I was saying you would think SmartLynx's fleet (at its several affiliated airlines) was the size of Atlas's from reading that release.

COMPARISON: SmartLynx to Atlas.

The entire SmartLynx group of airlines appears to have something like 14 narrowbodies, of which only a single aircraft currently appears to be flying. The Press Release makes them sound like a dominant operator and world leader in A320 operation.

Also, CLUE: DHL's quantum of employees includes hundreds of thousands who aren't connected to their air operation.


Defently you was comparing Atlas and DHL and not only SmartLynx !
So , the tiny Atlas Air is out of range compared to DHL
 
wjcandee
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:10 am

oldJoe wrote:
Defently you was comparing Atlas and DHL and not only SmartLynx !
So , the tiny Atlas Air is out of range compared to DHL


Okay, so you know what I was thinking and intended to say. SET /ignore=ON.
 
bwvilla
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:03 pm

wjcandee wrote:
darloscott wrote:
Interesting news from DHL in Europe in that the A321P2F will be joining the fleet ... .]

https://www.dhl.com/global-en/home/pres ... ation.html.


What a weird, treacly, self-congratulatory, over-the-top press release. (Shudder.)


Not particularly OTT/etc - just a standard PR announcement including a bit of spin - that's what PR do
lhr-utc-lhr-sin-bru-cgn-sin
 
oldJoe
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:13 pm

bwvilla wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
darloscott wrote:
Interesting news from DHL in Europe in that the A321P2F will be joining the fleet ... .]

https://www.dhl.com/global-en/home/pres ... ation.html.


What a weird, treacly, self-congratulatory, over-the-top press release. (Shudder.)


Not particularly OTT/etc - just a standard PR announcement including a bit of spin - that's what PR do


:checkmark: nothing more and less and some fanboays here , ....... without a comment
 
darloscott
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:30 pm

Here’s an interesting one that I have only just picked up on, but appears to have been going a week or so now.
Condor are currently running 3x B767-300 for DHL out of Leipzig, flying to Milan MXP, Shannon and Cologne carrying parcels in the belly only. Currently D-ABUA, ABUF and ABUI are flying these contracts.
 
wjcandee
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:34 pm

darloscott wrote:
Here’s an interesting one that I have only just picked up on, but appears to have been going a week or so now.
Condor are currently running 3x B767-300 for DHL out of Leipzig, flying to Milan MXP, Shannon and Cologne carrying parcels in the belly only. Currently D-ABUA, ABUF and ABUI are flying these contracts.


I saw some photos of that operation, where they're actually putting some stuff in the seats in the rear as well.
 
MO11
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:17 pm

N349AN sold to DHL yesterday.
 
wjcandee
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:22 pm

MO11 wrote:
N349AN sold to DHL yesterday.


Awesome! Last one of the 8 that weren't optioned by ATSG. And there's only one of the ATSG-Optioned Twenty left! From 28 to 1 pretty-dang fast. Great payback for Jetran, I'm sure, and a great deal for ATSG. Hopefully, Jetran was able to hold DHL up for a little more cheddar on those 8 it sold them.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:30 pm

DHL adding 17 weekly Asia-Pacific frequencies using AeroLogic and Kalitta 777s

https://aircargoworld.com/news/express/ ... operations
https://www.aircargonews.net/sectors/ex ... nd-europe/
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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mercure1
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:24 am

DHL Express will increase its Bahrain based Middle East and North Africa regional fleet capacity with seven Boeing 767-300Fs

https://www.logisticsmiddleeast.com/tra ... -767-300fs
mercure f-wtcc
 
flyguy1
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:36 pm

mercure1 wrote:
DHL Express will increase its Bahrain based Middle East and North Africa regional fleet capacity with seven Boeing 767-300Fs

https://www.logisticsmiddleeast.com/tra ... -767-300fs


Wonder if these will be for growth, or to replace those ancient 767's?
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
bmibaby737
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Tue May 11, 2021 9:28 am

N652GT B767-200 ferried as CSB9652 (21 Air) CWF-OPF on 09 May 2021*, this aircraft was previously flying in full DHL livery operated by Atlas Air. Anyone know if this is joining the 21 Air fleet and still flying for DHL in their scheme?

* Source: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/CSB ... /KCWF/KOPF https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n652gt

Additionally, N653GT B767-200 ferried to Miami on 01 May 2021, has this now gone to AmeriJet?

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n653gt
 
wjcandee
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Tue May 11, 2021 3:35 pm

bmibaby737 wrote:
N652GT B767-200 ferried as CSB9652 (21 Air) CWF-OPF on 09 May 2021, this aircraft was previously flying in full DHL livery operated by Atlas Air. Anyone know if this is joining the 21 Air fleet and still flying for DHL in their scheme? Additionally, N653GT B767-200 ferried to Miami on 01 May 2021, has this now gone to AmeriJet?


Quick background, very oversimplified: After DHL shot itself in the head consolidating its acquisition of Airborne Express, resulting in billions of dollars of losses and the loss of much domestic volume, DHL shut down its brief foray into intra-US operations. When it acquired Airborne, one of the contracts allowed ABX Air (essentially a renaming of Airborne's airline) to force DHL to buy certain assets in the event that DHL shut down the intra-US domestic operations. Smart lawyering! Among those assets that DHL could be forced to buy were 9 767-200 aircraft.

When DHL pulled out, ABX made DHL buy the 9 aircraft. DHL ended up putting all 9 with Atlas to operate for DHL under CMI agreements, and Atlas renumbered them from their xxxAX tail numbers. For some time, Airborne continued to maintain them for Atlas at ILN.

But DHL owns them.

There are 5 ex-TWA PW-powered ones (JT9D-7R4D), and 4 GE-powered ones. [Nerd note: 4 of the PWs were originally-delivered to TWA, with 2-digit line numbers, and one was originally delivered to Braathens, but wound its way eventually to TWA (N655GT, l/n 101), all per Planespotters.net.]

DHL is now slowly moving them from Atlas.

The 4 GE-powered ones are operated by Amerijet for DHL now (656GT, 657GT, 658GT, 659GT).

That leaves 5.

2 are still operated by Atlas (651GT, 655GT).

One just went to OPF (652GT) after a stay at CWF, as you point out, flying under a CSB flight number, so presumably it's gonna be operated by 21Air for DHL.

One is at MIA (653GT), which presumably means it is in conformity for Amerijet, consistent with rumors that Amerijet is getting 2 of them to operate for DHL in addition to its already-4. OTOH, Atlas has a substantial operation at MIA, so it's not certain.

One has been at MLB for about a week (650GT), presumably in conformity for somebody at STS. https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=441452437052334 Maybe Amerijet.
 
toga998
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 8:09 pm

Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Tue May 11, 2021 6:28 pm

What is DHL’s gateway airport for the LA basin/metro area? ONT serves the two major cargo carriers, but DHL seems like a rarity.
 
bwvilla
Posts: 55
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed May 12, 2021 3:48 pm

wjcandee wrote:
bmibaby737 wrote:
N652GT B767-200 ferried as CSB9652 (21 Air) CWF-OPF on 09 May 2021, this aircraft was previously flying in full DHL livery operated by Atlas Air. Anyone know if this is joining the 21 Air fleet and still flying for DHL in their scheme? Additionally, N653GT B767-200 ferried to Miami on 01 May 2021, has this now gone to AmeriJet?


Quick background, very oversimplified: After DHL shot itself in the head consolidating its acquisition of Airborne Express, resulting in billions of dollars of losses and the loss of much domestic volume, DHL shut down its brief foray into intra-US operations. When it acquired Airborne, one of the contracts allowed ABX Air (essentially a renaming of Airborne's airline) to force DHL to buy certain assets in the event that DHL shut down the intra-US domestic operations. Smart lawyering! Among those assets that DHL could be forced to buy were 9 767-200 aircraft.

When DHL pulled out, ABX made DHL buy the 9 aircraft. DHL ended up putting all 9 with Atlas to operate for DHL under CMI agreements, and Atlas renumbered them from their xxxAX tail numbers. For some time, Airborne continued to maintain them for Atlas at ILN.

But DHL owns them.

There are 5 ex-TWA PW-powered ones (JT9D-7R4D), and 4 GE-powered ones. [Nerd note: 4 of the PWs were originally-delivered to TWA, with 2-digit line numbers, and one was originally delivered to Braathens, but wound its way eventually to TWA (N655GT, l/n 101), all per Planespotters.net.]

DHL is now slowly moving them from Atlas.

The 4 GE-powered ones are operated by Amerijet for DHL now (656GT, 657GT, 658GT, 659GT).

That leaves 5.

2 are still operated by Atlas (651GT, 655GT).

One just went to OPF (652GT) after a stay at CWF, as you point out, flying under a CSB flight number, so presumably it's gonna be operated by 21Air for DHL.

One is at MIA (653GT), which presumably means it is in conformity for Amerijet, consistent with rumors that Amerijet is getting 2 of them to operate for DHL in addition to its already-4. OTOH, Atlas has a substantial operation at MIA, so it's not certain.

One has been at MLB for about a week (650GT), presumably in conformity for somebody at STS. https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=441452437052334 Maybe Amerijet.


Yes, very oversimplified.

Most of your other posts are largely accurate and informative.

Do you have some specific personal history/'beef' with DHL?
lhr-utc-lhr-sin-bru-cgn-sin
 
wjcandee
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed May 12, 2021 4:51 pm

Now that's funny. Tell me which part isn't factual. The put agreement with Airborne? The fact that over airborne's objections DHL initiated, in a single weekend, a transfer of all business to ILN at the same time that they changed destination codes at the same time that they fired up an automatic sort system that hadn't been adequately tested under load, leading to a meltdown that it took them conservatively three and more like six months to dig out from, during which time many high-volume longtime customers fled. That's the truth. That's what happened. Until then, DHL was doing a good job of expanding the existing domestic Airborne business. No personal beef at all. Just a willingness to call a dumb decision a dumb decision. Actually a disastrous decision.
 
bwvilla
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:27 pm

Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed May 12, 2021 5:05 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Now that's funny. Tell me which part isn't factual. The put agreement with Airborne? The fact that over airborne's objections DHL initiated, in a single weekend, a transfer of all business to ILN at the same time that they changed destination codes at the same time that they fired up an automatic sort system that hadn't been adequately tested under load, leading to a meltdown that it took them conservatively three and more like six months to dig out from, during which time many high-volume longtime customers fled. That's the truth. That's what happened. Until then, DHL was doing a good job of expanding the existing domestic Airborne business. No personal beef at all. Just a willingness to call a dumb decision a dumb decision. Actually a disastrous decision.


The only question was about the beef. Because digging this stuff out again 15 years later is a little bizarre seeing as they've clearly more than rebounded - so accurate or not, it's all old and irrelevant news anyhow.
lhr-utc-lhr-sin-bru-cgn-sin
 
wjcandee
Posts: 10473
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed May 12, 2021 5:55 pm

Airborne never rebounded. ILN never rebounded. Dhl's volume is nothing like what it was when it was doing domestic as well. ABX's Fleet is a fraction of what it once was. Those 9 planes went to Atlas for a reason, and I think the whole story of them is somewhat relevant. You don't have to agree, but it doesn't mean that I have a beef. I firmly believe that those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it, so I like to see things in context. If others don't, then they don't.
 
FX1816
Posts: 493
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:02 am

Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed May 12, 2021 6:28 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Airborne never rebounded. ILN never rebounded. Dhl's volume is nothing like what it was when it was doing domestic as well. ABX's Fleet is a fraction of what it once was. Those 9 planes went to Atlas for a reason, and I think the whole story of them is somewhat relevant. You don't have to agree, but it doesn't mean that I have a beef. I firmly believe that those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it, so I like to see things in context. If others don't, then they don't.


Absolutely agree with you on this and I can attest to EVERYTHING you said about DHL US. I was an FSS at ONT from March 2005 to February 2008 with a stopover at JIO (March Hub) from October 2006 to December 2007. They totally fouled that up and honestly have never fully recovered, Domestic with DHL is still basically non-existent. They also absolutely screwed over the people at ILN. Oh and that overnight switch to ILN in September of 2005 was a total nightmare. On the Friday night we sent out DHL200 (B722) and ABX412 (B762) both to ILN after years of DHL200 going ONT-CVG. That next morning, Saturday, the ABX812, ILN-ONT, did not arrive until about 2 PM and even then it hardly had any freight on it. At least at ONT we did not see things settle down until after the new year, around February/March 2006. This is all completely relevant, even if it is almost 16 years old, it explains much of how DHL is in the US now.
 
wjcandee
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed May 12, 2021 7:10 pm

bwvilla: Let me say that my response probably reads more-aggressively than I meant it to, looking at it now. That's the problem with the written word -- can't hear the tone of voice. I deeply appreciate your kind comments before asking your question, and the balanced way you phrased your inquiry, rather than the way many things are phrased on a.net. I understand the idea of always looking forward. Especially in a crisis, that's the only way to get through it. And I can see how I might seem to be dredging up something unnecessarily, but I think it interesting that these 9 ex-ABX aircraft are actually owned by DHL, rather than leased from the carrier as many aircraft serving DHL in the US typically are (although that is changing with some new aircraft). Originally, you had DHL Air in the US, period. And you had Airborne being Airborne, with a large fleet. Then, post-acquisition, you had AStar and ABX Air, primarily. Post-breakup, DHL significantly-diversified its carriers, and an early part of that was ABX putting these 9 aircraft to DHL, which then hired Atlas to operate them. And lots of happy little DC9 freighters headed to the desert, never to return.
 
User avatar
Spacepope
Posts: 5301
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Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed May 12, 2021 7:23 pm

FX1816 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Airborne never rebounded. ILN never rebounded. Dhl's volume is nothing like what it was when it was doing domestic as well. ABX's Fleet is a fraction of what it once was. Those 9 planes went to Atlas for a reason, and I think the whole story of them is somewhat relevant. You don't have to agree, but it doesn't mean that I have a beef. I firmly believe that those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it, so I like to see things in context. If others don't, then they don't.


Absolutely agree with you on this and I can attest to EVERYTHING you said about DHL US. I was an FSS at ONT from March 2005 to February 2008 with a stopover at JIO (March Hub) from October 2006 to December 2007. They totally fouled that up and honestly have never fully recovered, Domestic with DHL is still basically non-existent. They also absolutely screwed over the people at ILN. Oh and that overnight switch to ILN in September of 2005 was a total nightmare. On the Friday night we sent out DHL200 (B722) and ABX412 (B762) both to ILN after years of DHL200 going ONT-CVG. That next morning, Saturday, the ABX812, ILN-ONT, did not arrive until about 2 PM and even then it hardly had any freight on it. At least at ONT we did not see things settle down until after the new year, around February/March 2006. This is all completely relevant, even if it is almost 16 years old, it explains much of how DHL is in the US now.


It sunk domestically the second it switched over. I earned a lot of overtime in the few weeks after that happened sitting on my dock waiting for the suddenly "former" ABX daily pickup to either super late or never arrive. When shipping out perishable diagnostic tests that switch caught our eyes real quick, and within about 2 weeks the company formerly known as Airborne was completely removed from our options.

And this wasn't onsie-twosie packages, we were talking 1/3 of an Econoline full of stuff every day. Our normal drivers were all swapped around but no one either though of or was allowed to just make the normal daily stop on the pickup route. It was like everyone got massive brain damage overnight.

UPS was more than happy to take on more volume back then from us, and we never looked back. But like I said, the overtime pay for doing basically nothing was nice.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
MO11
Posts: 1787
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed May 12, 2021 8:59 pm

bmibaby737 wrote:
Additionally, N653GT B767-200 ferried to Miami on 01 May 2021, has this now gone to AmeriJet?


Ferried today to Roswell with Atlas callsign.
 
UA444
Posts: 3092
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 am

Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed May 12, 2021 9:11 pm

What’s up with their 757s? Particularly N531UA?
 
wjcandee
Posts: 10473
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: DHL Network And Fleet Thread - 2021

Wed May 12, 2021 9:19 pm

UA444 wrote:
What’s up with their 757s? Particularly N531UA?


N605DL, N620DL, N531UA and N557CM are apparently retired, per ATSG, which owned them through CAM.

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