jetskipper wrote:

SkyVoice wrote:

Do any of you see a return of limited airline service to Terre Haute (Hulman Field, HUF)?

I would be highly suspect. When the Great Lakes HUF-LAF-ORD service ended in 1998 the boarding sat HUF were 5-6 pax at most. The majority of the hoardings were at LAF. IND is only an hour drive.

Yea unlike LAF and the surrounding area, Terre Haute's population has been stagnant for decades (not to mention half the size of the LAF area)

Driving I-70 to IND from HUF is easier than I-65 & I-465 from LAF.

Don't get me wrong though, it would be cool to see HUF with service.

SBN's final numbers for the year 2020 are in. Because of the Pandemic traffic was off 49% from 2019. https://flysbn.com/wp-content/uploads/2 ... c-2020.pdf

freakyrat wrote:

SBN's final numbers for the year 2020 are in. Because of the Pandemic traffic was off 49% from 2019. https://flysbn.com/wp-content/uploads/2 ... c-2020.pdf

These numbers are skewed a bit because Delta and United have not returned to a normal schedule yet and G4 did not get back to a normal schedule till mid year or so.

freakyrat wrote:

freakyrat wrote:

SBN's final numbers for the year 2020 are in. Because of the Pandemic traffic was off 49% from 2019. https://flysbn.com/wp-content/uploads/2 ... c-2020.pdf

These numbers are skewed a bit because Delta and United have not returned to a normal schedule yet and G4 did not get back to a normal schedule till mid year or so.

How does the % change in passengers compare to the change in seats from SBN?

Here are some changes for FWA and SBN.
G4 FWA-LAS SEP 0>0.3[0] OCT 0>0.3[0]
G4 FWA-PGD NOV 0>0.3[0.5]
G4 FWA-PIE NOV 0>0.3[0.4]
G4 FWA-SFB OCT 0>0.4[0.5]
G4 FWA-SRQ OCT 0>0.2[0.3
G4 SBN-SRQ OCT 0>0.2[0]

DL DTW-FWA MAY 3>2.0[1.0]

G4 is banking on increased leisure traffic by starting seasonal SRQ flights in October instead of November. DL is showing a slight increase in DTW flights. Depending on how well we control the Panademic and our vaccination rate SBN flights on Delta will propbably change in the September and October time frame especially on home football weekends in they allow a full stadium at Notre Dame.

Boiler905 wrote:

freakyrat wrote:

freakyrat wrote:

SBN's final numbers for the year 2020 are in. Because of the Pandemic traffic was off 49% from 2019. https://flysbn.com/wp-content/uploads/2 ... c-2020.pdf

These numbers are skewed a bit because Delta and United have not returned to a normal schedule yet and G4 did not get back to a normal schedule till mid year or so.

How does the % change in passengers compare to the change in seats from SBN?

Delta normaly had 4 daily flights to ATL 4 to DTW and 2 to MSP. They are currently operating 2 or 3 to ATL which takes out 100 seats out of the schedule. MSP flights have not returned and that is another 100 seats. DTW is operating at 3 daily flights and that's 50 seats out of the schedule.

AA only dropped one daily flight to CLT and that was 76 seats taken out of the schedule but that flight returned quickly so we cannot ignore them.

UA had plan to offer 10 daily flights to ORD with one flight a 76 seat E175. That is 526 seats daily. They normaly operated 6 50-seaters which is 300 seats. They are operating 4 daily 50 seaters on every day except Tuesday and Saturday where they operate 3 50-seaters. The reason pre-pandemic that United was really going to increase seats is because of the decrease in bus service to ORD from SBN. When the pandemic is over I would suspect they will return to theoir original plans fro 10 daily flights to ORD and may add DEN and IAD. Seasonal EWR will most likely return this fall if Notre Dame allows full fans in the stadium and business traffic returns.

In 2019 before the pandemic SBN enplaned and deplaned a total 0f 821,000 passengers which was a record.

More good news for SBN on an update. Delta just started offering a 76 seat CRJ900 operated by Endeavor Air for the 12:23 PM flight to ATL. It runs for March and April for now. I would bet this is the start of Delta's original pre-pandemic plan to phase out CRJ200's for the SBN-ATL flights.

freakyrat wrote:

More good news for SBN on an update. Delta just started offering a 76 seat CRJ900 operated by Endeavor Air for the 12:23 PM flight to ATL. It runs for March and April for now. I would bet this is the start of Delta's original pre-pandemic plan to phase out CRJ200's for the SBN-ATL flights.

Just checked All DL SBN-ATL flying has now gone to Endeavor CRJ900 76 passenger jets leaving a row of aisle seats empty for temporary social distancing. Delta Pre-Pandemic had planned to phase out CRJ200 jets for all of the Atlanta flights and looks like that has come to fruition.

freakyrat wrote:

freakyrat wrote:

More good news for SBN on an update. Delta just started offering a 76 seat CRJ900 operated by Endeavor Air for the 12:23 PM flight to ATL. It runs for March and April for now. I would bet this is the start of Delta's original pre-pandemic plan to phase out CRJ200's for the SBN-ATL flights.

Just checked All DL SBN-ATL flying has now gone to Endeavor CRJ900 76 passenger jets leaving a row of aisle seats empty for temporary social distancing. Delta Pre-Pandemic had planned to phase out CRJ200 jets for all of the Atlanta flights and looks like that has come to fruition.

FWA-ATL as well?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It looks like FWA and SBN are all CRJ-900. EVV is a mix of CRJ-200 and -900s. Which is surprising because pre-pandemic EVV was the only one of the three that had Delta mainline service.

[photoid][/photoid]

jetskipper wrote:

It looks like FWA and SBN are all CRJ-900. EVV is a mix of CRJ-200 and -900s. Which is surprising because pre-pandemic EVV was the only one of the three that had Delta mainline service.

One of the SBN morning flights to ATL Pre-pandemic was planeed for a mainline 717. In order to start that full time Delta wanted the ramp to be rebuilt and better jetbridges, The Ramp is also marked out for the 717 and A220's and SBN Delta ground ops has all the GSE Equipment for both aircraft.

freakyrat wrote:

[photoid][/photoid]

jetskipper wrote:

It looks like FWA and SBN are all CRJ-900. EVV is a mix of CRJ-200 and -900s. Which is surprising because pre-pandemic EVV was the only one of the three that had Delta mainline service.

One of the SBN morning flights to ATL Pre-pandemic was planeed for a mainline 717. In order to start that full time Delta wanted the ramp to be rebuilt and better jetbridges, The Ramp is also marked out for the 717 and A220's and SBN Delta ground ops has all the GSE Equipment for both aircraft.

Again, just because SBN has ramp equipment for it doesn't mean anything, due to the proximity to ORD and their ability to handle diversions. If they wanted to bring the 717 in, but needed the ramp and jetbridges, they were YEARS from getting that done. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the best thing DL could do at both FWA & SBN, is to get rid of the DGS operation and bring something else in, as they're terrible.

DiamondFlyer wrote:

freakyrat wrote:

[photoid][/photoid]

jetskipper wrote:

It looks like FWA and SBN are all CRJ-900. EVV is a mix of CRJ-200 and -900s. Which is surprising because pre-pandemic EVV was the only one of the three that had Delta mainline service.

One of the SBN morning flights to ATL Pre-pandemic was planeed for a mainline 717. In order to start that full time Delta wanted the ramp to be rebuilt and better jetbridges, The Ramp is also marked out for the 717 and A220's and SBN Delta ground ops has all the GSE Equipment for both aircraft.

Again, just because SBN has ramp equipment for it doesn't mean anything, due to the proximity to ORD and their ability to handle diversions. If they wanted to bring the 717 in, but needed the ramp and jetbridges, they were YEARS from getting that done. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the best thing DL could do at both FWA & SBN, is to get rid of the DGS operation and bring something else in, as they're terrible.

South Bend is in the process of a realigning and rebuilding of the main Taxiway, Taxiway Bravo which includes a ramp rebuild. The construction equipment is in place awaiting the better spring weather. Delta wanted the ramp to be rebuilt with the slopes taken out and they wanted the jetbridges replaced with the one like Allegiant has on Gate 9 as a stipulation for operating mainline ATL flights. The Delta GSE Equipment and ramp markings for the 717/737/A220/A319/A320 aircraft are there for Notre Dame Football Weekends when Delta operates mainliine jets. The Equipment that DGS brought in for the A319/320 was brought in to ground handle F9 flights to DEN long before Delta started using thoise jets in SBN for Notre Dame Weekends.

Diversions come secondary. In fact the only diversions I've ever seen at SBN from ORD are from UA.

Pre-Pamdemic Delta had planned to replace the 6:00 am and 8 am CRJ flights to Atlanta with a single B717 flight. The other two flights would be CRJ900's operated by Endeavor. They are presently operating all ATL flights from both SBN and FWA with CRJ900's. SBN presently has 3 daily flights to ATL an increase of 28 seats (pre-Covid) over the 4 flights with CRJ200's. Once they get back to 4 daily flights to ATL they will have an increase of 104 daily seats to ATL.

FWAERJ wrote:

WN at SBN or FWA? Maybe both?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

WN like other airlines has been working some quirky leisure routes into their schedule to plan for things post-Covid. In Ref to SBN in 2019 the airport handled over 800,000 passengers. It may be a few years down the road and even if they do not offer connections per se I have a sneaky suspicion that WN has approached South Bend officials about service to DEN and BNA after all why would the airport put out a survey on their Facebook page to guage interest for flights to BNA. As far as DEN goes, DEN is already a known popular destination from SBN. It is just trying to find the right carrier that could fly the route profitably with the right West Coast connections. It's not that F9 service wasn't profitable, It was. They just changed their business model to an ULCC over a connecting carrier and that type of model did not fit the type of service out of SBN. F9 flew and average of 118 passengers per flight out of SBN on a 133 seat A319. WN can do better than that. After all passengers flock to WN like vultures on roadkill. They know that they could offer 2 daily flights to DEN and a daily BNA would be thrown in to connect people to points in the south and southeast.

The only other carrier I could think of that may have asked the airport to guage interest in flights to BNA would be G4.

freakyrat wrote:

FWAERJ wrote:

WN at SBN or FWA? Maybe both?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

WN like other airlines has been working some quirky leisure routes into their schedule to plan for things post-Covid. In Ref to SBN in 2019 the airport handled over 800,000 passengers. It may be a few years down the road and even if they do not offer connections per se I have a sneaky suspicion that WN has approached South Bend officials about service to DEN and BNA after all why would the airport put out a survey on their Facebook page to guage interest for flights to BNA. As far as DEN goes, DEN is already a known popular destination from SBN. It is just trying to find the right carrier that could fly the route profitably with the right West Coast connections. It's not that F9 service wasn't profitable, It was. They just changed their business model to an ULCC over a connecting carrier and that type of model did not fit the type of service out of SBN. F9 flew and average of 118 passengers per flight out of SBN on a 133 seat A319. WN can do better than that. After all passengers flock to WN like vultures on roadkill. They know that they could offer 2 daily flights to DEN and a daily BNA would be thrown in to connect people to points in the south and southeast.

The only other carrier I could think of that may have asked the airport to guage interest in flights to BNA would be G4.

Actually I forgot Breeze.

FWAERJ wrote:

freakyrat wrote:

freakyrat wrote:

More good news for SBN on an update. Delta just started offering a 76 seat CRJ900 operated by Endeavor Air for the 12:23 PM flight to ATL. It runs for March and April for now. I would bet this is the start of Delta's original pre-pandemic plan to phase out CRJ200's for the SBN-ATL flights.

Just checked All DL SBN-ATL flying has now gone to Endeavor CRJ900 76 passenger jets leaving a row of aisle seats empty for temporary social distancing. Delta Pre-Pandemic had planned to phase out CRJ200 jets for all of the Atlanta flights and looks like that has come to fruition.

FWA-ATL as well?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Delta still would like to do a morning mainline flight to ATL when traffic returns. Probably out of both airports. At SBN they were negotiating with them for a morning B717 flight to ATL. Delta is smart. Now they are trying to compete with AA's better Regional jet offerings. Flying on their own wholly owned subsidiary metal and offering three class service jets is going to eventually stimulate the traffic when it returns post-covid and make them good profits. A flight to ATL is to far a distance to be crammed into a pukey CRJ200.

I’m trying to make sense of the GYY UPS routings. The MSP-GYY-PHL 757 routing makes sense. The CAE-GYY-SDF A306 routing doesn’t make sense to me, is there a reason for the CAE-GYY leg?

jetskipper wrote:

SkyVoice wrote:

Do any of you see a return of limited airline service to Terre Haute (Hulman Field, HUF)?

I would be highly suspect. When the Great Lakes HUF-LAF-ORD service ended in 1998 the boarding sat HUF were 5-6 pax at most. The majority of the hoardings were at LAF. IND is only an hour drive.

To be fair, the Great Mistakes service was not reliable. The FREQUENT delays meant that the afternoon trip would sometimes sit for hours in Lafayette, only to be canceled there due to the ORD delay programs. It got so bad that GL put up a large sign at the counter saying that delays to Chicago were frequent, to plan accordingly, and that GL staff could not help pax with misconnections other than United. Do that just one time, and the 90 minute drive to IND didn’t seem so bad.

I have often said that DTW was the better option, in conjunction with HUF. I know Lafayette has discussed subsidizing service, if they could get together with HUF, I am sure that Skywest would be willing to take the money.

FlyingElvii wrote:

jetskipper wrote:

SkyVoice wrote:

Do any of you see a return of limited airline service to Terre Haute (Hulman Field, HUF)?

I would be highly suspect. When the Great Lakes HUF-LAF-ORD service ended in 1998 the boarding sat HUF were 5-6 pax at most. The majority of the hoardings were at LAF. IND is only an hour drive.

To be fair, the Great Mistakes service was not reliable. The FREQUENT delays meant that the afternoon trip would sometimes sit for hours in Lafayette, only to be canceled there due to the ORD delay programs. It got so bad that GL put up a large sign at the counter saying that delays to Chicago were frequent, to plan accordingly, and that GL staff could not help pax with misconnections other than United. Do that just one time, and the 90 minute drive to IND didn’t seem so bad.

I have often said that DTW was the better option, in conjunction with HUF. I know Lafayette has discussed subsidizing service, if they could get together with HUF, I am sure that Skywest would be willing to take the money.

With what airplanes? Delta has made it clear the 50 seaters are dead for their operation.

DiamondFlyer wrote:

With what airplanes? Delta has made it clear the 50 seaters are dead for their operation.

With Delta going to 76-seaters now on SBN-ATL as they had planned to pre-pandemic and with Delta phasing out 50-seaters do you think that they would also offer the 76-seaters for the 4 DTW flights?

freakyrat wrote:

DiamondFlyer wrote:

With what airplanes? Delta has made it clear the 50 seaters are dead for their operation.

With Delta going to 76-seaters now on SBN-ATL as they had planned to pre-pandemic and with Delta phasing out 50-seaters do you think that they would also offer the 76-seaters for the 4 DTW flights?

DTW-FWA isn't a Delta CPA flight, it's Skywest at-risk, and to my knowledge, they don't do 76 seat at-risk, I'd imagine it will go away.

DiamondFlyer wrote:

freakyrat wrote:

DiamondFlyer wrote:

With what airplanes? Delta has made it clear the 50 seaters are dead for their operation.

With Delta going to 76-seaters now on SBN-ATL as they had planned to pre-pandemic and with Delta phasing out 50-seaters do you think that they would also offer the 76-seaters for the 4 DTW flights?

DTW-FWA isn't a Delta CPA flight, it's Skywest at-risk, and to my knowledge, they don't do 76 seat at-risk, I'd imagine it will go away.

DTW isn’t all that bad of a drive from Fort Wayne anyway. US 24 to I-75 to the DTW west entrance will get you to the McNamara Terminal in 2.5 hours, the same time it takes to get to IND from Fort Wayne. North Terminal? Add another 5 minutes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

DiamondFlyer wrote:

freakyrat wrote:

DiamondFlyer wrote:

With what airplanes? Delta has made it clear the 50 seaters are dead for their operation.

With Delta going to 76-seaters now on SBN-ATL as they had planned to pre-pandemic and with Delta phasing out 50-seaters do you think that they would also offer the 76-seaters for the 4 DTW flights?

DTW-FWA isn't a Delta CPA flight, it's Skywest at-risk, and to my knowledge, they don't do 76 seat at-risk, I'd imagine it will go away.

SBN-DTW is used for lot of connections with the Noon flight making connections to the International bank when it comes back. At one time Delta did do a 76-seater on that flight because I flew on it and it was full with a large group connecting to AMS.

Definitely happy they are running the larger jets to ATL getting a jump on things when traffic returns.

FWAERJ wrote:

DiamondFlyer wrote:

freakyrat wrote:

With Delta going to 76-seaters now on SBN-ATL as they had planned to pre-pandemic and with Delta phasing out 50-seaters do you think that they would also offer the 76-seaters for the 4 DTW flights?

DTW-FWA isn't a Delta CPA flight, it's Skywest at-risk, and to my knowledge, they don't do 76 seat at-risk, I'd imagine it will go away.

DTW isn’t all that bad of a drive from Fort Wayne anyway. US 24 to I-75 to the DTW west entrance will get you to the McNamara Terminal in 2.5 hours, the same time it takes to get to IND from Fort Wayne. North Terminal? Add another 5 minutes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly, it just doesn't make sense to fly FWA-DTW-xxx. Especially if you live anywhere on the north side of Fort Wayne. The time to get to the airport + check in time + block time, rarely comes out ahead of just driving to DTW.

LAF's Small Community Air Service Development Program application is out. Aiming for Allegiant 2x weekly flights to two Florida destinations.

https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -0231-0076

Was expecting something along the lines of DFW/ORD/CLT, but I guess not.

Ishrion wrote:

LAF's Small Community Air Service Development Program application is out. Aiming for Allegiant 2x weekly flights to two Florida destinations.

https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -0231-0076

Was expecting something along the lines of DFW/ORD/CLT, but I guess not.

Read again:

"The second objective of our Air Service Development plan is to recruit a legacy network carrier to provide service to one or more hubs"

"Because of the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on business travel and our need to drive change to behaviors to support a new entrant carrier at LAF, we believe ultra-low-cost-service is the right first step on this long-term journey."

G4 to Florida will be popular, college students could even theoretically walk to the airport. Nice to finally put numbers to how much demand there is from LAF

DiamondFlyer wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

Tan Flyr wrote:

The interesting stats to see would be the general traffic flows of folks from the Lafayette area Zip codes when they do fly out of IND or ORD/ MDW.Then the actual counts of those flows..naturally somebody, probably even Mitch, has access to those. The question is how much (percentage) of the "leakage" can you convert to using LAF.
Deals on parking, etc, help a bit. but the fares have to be in line with IND/ORD, and a solid case for organic growth of the market. Simply shifting x pax per day from IND or CHI area airports to LAF does little, if anything to the bottom lines of carriers.

I don’t necessarily agree on the fare element here.

The fares don’t need to be in line with ORD or IND, to an extent. A premium would most certainly be charged for passengers flying in/out of LAF, but that premium in air fare would be at least somewhat offset by savings in gas, parking, and drive time.

Not to mention AA or UA wouldnt necessarily only be shifting pax from IND to LAF, but also capturing new passengers who may have chosen DL, WN, G4, etc and converting them to AA or UA given it is much more convenient for them now.

DiamondFlyer wrote:

I think you all are forgetting the biggest issue. 50 seat jets are done, they'll be gone in 5-8 years for the most part. I just don't see LAF getting any kind of service, heck, the state will be lucky if SBN/EVV/FWA get back to the flying they had pre-covid.

Not sure why SBN, EVV, or FWA matter here. LAF is the fastest growing metro in the state of Indiana, and service at those airports don’t impact LAF at all.

Growth or not, LAF will not get airline service.

"The University is currently in final contract negotiations to retain the services of a firm to assist in planning efforts for this passenger terminal. Additionally, the University has had discussions with Allegiant about the potential new facility, and Allegiant has agreed to participate in an advisory role on the planning and design of the new facility. We currently expect the terminal to be completed in the first half of 2022."

"Since Allegiant’s initial receptiveness to the University’s business case for scheduled service, there have been multiple meetings between the University, PRF, the IEDC, and the local community to discuss this air service development project"

Not a guarantee, but LAF is in good shape for air service in the near future.

Midwestindy wrote:

Ishrion wrote:

LAF's Small Community Air Service Development Program application is out. Aiming for Allegiant 2x weekly flights to two Florida destinations.

https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -0231-0076

Was expecting something along the lines of DFW/ORD/CLT, but I guess not.

Read again:

"The second objective of our Air Service Development plan is to recruit a legacy network carrier to provide service to one or more hubs"

"Because of the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on business travel and our need to drive change to behaviors to support a new entrant carrier at LAF, we believe ultra-low-cost-service is the right first step on this long-term journey."

G4 to Florida will be popular, college students could even theoretically walk to the airport. Nice to finally put numbers to how much demand there is from LAF

Ah, thanks. I completely missed that part.

Don't forget that G4 is already a known quantity in Lafayette. They've served IND for years, and will have instant brand recognition as a result.

I've long thought that G4 would be a good fit for LAF, even before they served IND (though there was the MD-80 runway issue before the all-Airbus fleet of today).

It appears that SBN traffic loads are getting back to Pre-Covid levels with AA selling out flights to DFW on some days. DL using larger jets even on a few flights to DTW. MSP returning in May with larger CRJ900 jets.

FWA-MSP is returning from its COViD-19 era hiatus.

Starting today UA is adding a daily EMB-175 to the SBN-ORD route.

The Taxiway Bravo realighnment and rebuild project including the main ramp rebuild is getting started at SBN. First Phase is from the end of Rwy 9R past the Fedex Ramp to the west side of the terminal ramp. The taxiway will be completely rebuilt and will now be 100 ft wide with 25ft paved shoulders. The Southeast bend where it crosses Rwy 18/36 will be removed and the taxiway will now run fully parallel to Rwy 9R/27L. New wider turnoff Taxiways will be built on the West side and the old turnoffs removed. It will also include few new hold aprons in the vicinity of Rwy 18/36 and wide entrance taxiways into the main ramp. The Main Terminal Ramp will also be extended West to just East of the parallel taxiway to Rwy 18/36. This will probably be for overnight parking and diversions and in the future a new West Concourse with 4 or 5 new gates. After the South Shore rail gets moved to the West side of the terminal then the airport can think of extending Rwy 27L another 1500 ft East and include a new set of Approach Lights and lower Bendix Drive. From the taxiway rebuild plans it appears they are doing this so FedEx has the ability with a wider taxiway and wider turnoffs to use B777, A300, or MD11 aircraft at SBN. Besides freight and with the Gate 9 jetbridge able to fully extend out to 150 feet the wider taxiways will allow large International charters with aircraft up to the 777/A330/A350 size to use the airport. Should be an interesting project

With the 15 Million dollars set aside in the new state budget for air service what should the smaller airports target?

United to DEN from FWA and SBN is my 1st choice.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

ibthebigd wrote:

With the 15 Million dollars set aside in the new state budget for air service what should the smaller airports target?

United to DEN from FWA and SBN is my 1st choice.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Local United folks at SBN said that they have enough traffic going to the West Coast that they could operate 2 daily E170 flights to DEN. They informed me that they connect a lot of Asian Americans out of SBN to Asia at ORD and would like to offer them an alternate of DEN for their connections.

Three leisure markets are being targeted out of SBN. G4 seasonal to CUN and MYR. Also flights to the Bahamas.

freakyrat wrote:

ibthebigd wrote:

With the 15 Million dollars set aside in the new state budget for air service what should the smaller airports target?

United to DEN from FWA and SBN is my 1st choice.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Local United folks at SBN said that they have enough traffic going to the West Coast that they could operate 2 daily E170 flights to DEN. They informed me that they connect a lot of Asian Americans out of SBN to Asia at ORD and would like to offer them an alternate of DEN for their connections.

Three leisure markets are being targeted out of SBN. G4 seasonal to CUN and MYR. Also flights to the Bahamas.

Right now Denver doesn’t have any Asian service. United will most likely resume DEN-NRT/HND service however that means that if you want to go anywhere other than Tokyo in Asia it will be two connections as opposed to the multitude of nonstops that ORD has to primary and secondary Asian cities. I think DEN will happen, but very little be accounted for with Asian connections.

ibthebigd wrote:

With the 15 Million dollars set aside in the new state budget for air service what should the smaller airports target?

I have no idea how to look into O&D numbers; but if I were a betting man, I would say EVV's next holes to fill would be DEN or NYC.

DL restart's SBN-MSP tomorrow. Although technically MSP-SBN starts tonight with the RON. In June MSP goes 2x daily on the 900 operated by Skywest. The mid day ATL turn has been downgraded to a 200.

Starting June 5th the morning SBN-DTW is slated to be run by an Endeavor CRJ-900

rampantfox wrote:

Starting June 5th the morning SBN-DTW is slated to be run by an Endeavor CRJ-900

Great. I didn't think they woul run the DTW flight with the 900. Looks like the phaseout of the 200's at SBN is real.

[photoid][/photoid]

rampantfox wrote:

DL restart's SBN-MSP tomorrow. Although technically MSP-SBN starts tonight with the RON. In June MSP goes 2x daily on the 900 operated by Skywest. The mid day ATL turn has been downgraded to a 200.

I think Delta is trying to figure out how to move all the 200's out of SBN. They are also seeing what cities most of their passengers are connecting to and where would be the best place to connect them.

Delta's ground servicing company has been using Gate 6 for all CRJ900 flights so they do not have to use a pushback tug.

I'm surprised that they are going to use a CRJ900 for a DTW flight, although they have used one before. as that was never in the original plans for SBN due to the short range nature of the flight. Maybe it's to build traffic so they can overnight an A220 in SBN and use it in the future and shift the 900 to some other city. Maybe it is to see how many connections they are getting to NYC and BOS as they were prior to the pandemic so they can launch the SBN-JFK or SBN-LGA flight and get a jump on American in case they want to start SBN-PHL.

It's just going to be a crazy summer all around.

Both Endeavor and Skywest in the past have head FA staffing issues so Delta has been jockeying crews and airplanes around at cities like SBN and FWA.

freakyrat wrote:

[photoid][/photoid]

rampantfox wrote:

DL restart's SBN-MSP tomorrow. Although technically MSP-SBN starts tonight with the RON. In June MSP goes 2x daily on the 900 operated by Skywest. The mid day ATL turn has been downgraded to a 200.

I think Delta is trying to figure out how to move all the 200's out of SBN. They are also seeing what cities most of their passengers are connecting to and where would be the best place to connect them.

Delta's ground servicing company has been using Gate 6 for all CRJ900 flights so they do not have to use a pushback tug.

I'm surprised that they are going to use a CRJ900 for a DTW flight, although they have used one before. as that was never in the original plans for SBN due to the short range nature of the flight. Maybe it's to build traffic so they can overnight an A220 in SBN and use it in the future and shift the 900 to some other city. Maybe it is to see how many connections they are getting to NYC and BOS as they were prior to the pandemic so they can launch the SBN-JFK or SBN-LGA flight and get a jump on American in case they want to start SBN-PHL.

It's just going to be a crazy summer all around.

The second daily MSP flight has been pushed back until July. They had been toying around with the idea to get rid of all the -200s from SBN but it may take longer as in the near future the noon ATL turn goes to a -200 unfortunately. The morning flights will be all -900s in June. Skywest will operate the MSP and DTW -900 flights and Endeavor has the ATL flight. I believe Delta is waiting to see what Notre Dame does for football weekends before they decide to bring in mainline like they have done in the past but that decision can be made at the last minute.

If you want to get technical Gates 5 and 6A have been used for DTW and ATL. Right now however the plan is for DTW to park at gate 6 for the morning. ATL will use gate 5 and MSP will land and park at 7 and in theory get towed to the hangar at night and be brought back over to gate 6A in the morning. This morning it was DTW at gate 7, ATL at gate 6A and MSP at gate 5. Gates 5, 6 and 7 all would require a pushback tug of which DGS has 2 available. The plan is to jockey them around between gates in the am in order to push out the 3 planes.

Taxiway B is now officially closed from 36/18 to just east of the FEDEX ramp. They have the concrete all torn up. Delta wants to bring mainline equipment into SBN but they don't want to do it with the way the ramp is now and how is slopes towards the building by 5 and 6.

Hey rampantfox the SBN Taxiway B construction is part of the whole plan to rebuild the ramp and take out all the slopes. United uses Gates 7 and 8. I see that United recently has been using Gate 8 so maybe Delta will also use 7. I know DGS has the tugs including the large one they used for Frontier. The CRJ900's are more comfortable and I know that Delta's passengers liked them.
It would also be nice if Delta could get the upgraded jetbridges on Gates 5 and 6 similar to the Allegiant Bridge on 9. I'm sure Ameribridge would cut the airport a sweetheart deal on 2 of them like they did on that one. The Allegiant Bridge can stretch out to 150 feet and actually can handle door sill heights of A330/B777 aircraft although the airport doesn't advertise it as such. I heard that Delta does want to operate a few mainline aircraft at SBN when the ramp is rebuilt and also include the possiblility of the computerized jetbridges like Allegiants. It's all in negotiation with the airport. I'm quite happy that they are addressing the pavement issues with the ramp and taxiway something they should have included with the Concourse construction. That ramp sloped like that in the 60's when all boarding with United, North Central and Lake Central was off the ground. Leveling everything out and rebuilding the ramp will probably gain Delta and United enough door sill height for Airbus A319/320 aircraft and if they can get the same bridges on the gates like the one on 9 it would definitely guaranty ADA legal sill height slopes. It's going to be a fun year but next year the airport will probably resume the growth they had in 2019 which would definitely require a few Delta mainline flights.

The Taxiway B reconstruction is going to be nice. They are going to take out the bends and run it parrallel to the Runway. Looks like it will be widened with paved shoulders and the turnoffs west of 18/36 will also be widened as will the taxiways into the FedEx Ramp and new ones built into the main Ramp. This will make it easier for FedEx to use A300 aircraft if they so desire just like UPS did and for other airlines large charter aircraft. Anyway thanks for chiming in.

rampantfox wrote:

The second daily MSP flight has been pushed back until July. They had been toying around with the idea to get rid of all the -200s from SBN but it may take longer as in the near future the noon ATL turn goes to a -200 unfortunately. The morning flights will be all -900s in June. Skywest will operate the MSP and DTW -900 flights and Endeavor has the ATL flight. I believe Delta is waiting to see what Notre Dame does for football weekends before they decide to bring in mainline like they have done in the past but that decision can be made at the last minute.

If you want to get technical Gates 5 and 6A have been used for DTW and ATL. Right now however the plan is for DTW to park at gate 6 for the morning. ATL will use gate 5 and MSP will land and park at 7 and in theory get towed to the hangar at night and be brought back over to gate 6A in the morning. This morning it was DTW at gate 7, ATL at gate 6A and MSP at gate 5. Gates 5, 6 and 7 all would require a pushback tug of which DGS has 2 available. The plan is to jockey them around between gates in the am in order to push out the 3 planes.

Taxiway B is now officially closed from 36/18 to just east of the FEDEX ramp. They have the concrete all torn up. Delta wants to bring mainline equipment into SBN but they don't want to do it with the way the ramp is now and how is slopes towards the building by 5 and 6.

I just saw that Delta using Gates 5, 6 and 7 for tonight's arrivals. Moving United over to Gate 8. Maybe the Airport needs to purchase another jetbridge and reactivate Gate 4. When American decides to start a PHL flight or Delta starts a JFK flight they will probably do it.

freakyrat wrote:

rampantfox wrote:

The second daily MSP flight has been pushed back until July. They had been toying around with the idea to get rid of all the -200s from SBN but it may take longer as in the near future the noon ATL turn goes to a -200 unfortunately. The morning flights will be all -900s in June. Skywest will operate the MSP and DTW -900 flights and Endeavor has the ATL flight. I believe Delta is waiting to see what Notre Dame does for football weekends before they decide to bring in mainline like they have done in the past but that decision can be made at the last minute.

If you want to get technical Gates 5 and 6A have been used for DTW and ATL. Right now however the plan is for DTW to park at gate 6 for the morning. ATL will use gate 5 and MSP will land and park at 7 and in theory get towed to the hangar at night and be brought back over to gate 6A in the morning. This morning it was DTW at gate 7, ATL at gate 6A and MSP at gate 5. Gates 5, 6 and 7 all would require a pushback tug of which DGS has 2 available. The plan is to jockey them around between gates in the am in order to push out the 3 planes.

Taxiway B is now officially closed from 36/18 to just east of the FEDEX ramp. They have the concrete all torn up. Delta wants to bring mainline equipment into SBN but they don't want to do it with the way the ramp is now and how is slopes towards the building by 5 and 6.

I just saw that Delta using Gates 5, 6 and 7 for tonight's arrivals. Moving United over to Gate 8. Maybe the Airport needs to purchase another jetbridge and reactivate Gate 4. When American decides to start a PHL flight or Delta starts a JFK flight they will probably do it.

The odds of Delta starting a JFK flight in the next decade are zero. I'm not sure why you keep pushing that idea, but the fact that the 200's are done in 3 years is the final nail in that coffin. SBN will be lucky to maintain a substantial number of DTW flights, when it's all said and done. SBN won't see a 220, for anything other than football weekends either...

DiamondFlyer wrote:

freakyrat wrote:

rampantfox wrote:

The odds of Delta starting a JFK flight in the next decade are zero. I'm not sure why you keep pushing that idea, but the fact that the 200's are done in 3 years is the final nail in that coffin. SBN will be lucky to maintain a substantial number of DTW flights, when it's all said and done. SBN won't see a 220, for anything other than football weekends either...

Delta put out a contractual request to the local DGS folks a few years ago for ground servicing for a flight to JFK and they rersponded so who knows what the future holds. We will just have to see when business trafic rebounds. Pre-pandemic the number one business destination out of the airport according to airport management was the NYC area followed by the DFW area. Pre-pandemic Delta and the airport were working on some mainline to ATL which is dependent on the ramp rebuild and some new jetbridges. Those flights were suppose to be on B717's which are also going away. The pandemic has thrown a monkeywrench into a lot of things and has accelerated the phaseout of older jets and fleet simplification at Delta and other carriers. However It's nice to see mostly everything on Delta going to CRJ900's out of SBN and FWA as Delta phases out the 200's. Passengers and the local Delta folks like them as they give the passengers a choice of seating options. The airport handled over 821 ,000 passengers in 2019 which was a record. It may take awhile to return to that level but when they do they will probably exceed that so why not plan for it now.

The airport may see the 220 on the football weekends but with the traffic generated on those weekends most likely they will see the normal A319/320 aircraft. The advantage the A220 has over the larger aircraft is it can utilize the half height gates 5-8.

Until passenger traffic returns the projected growth at the airport is in freight. This is why the airport is rebuilding Taxiway B to make it wider with paved shoulders and make it truly parallel to Rwy 9R/27L, widen the turnoffs the Rwy and comply with the FAA's request to separate the taxiway from the Ramp. There are also plans to build a new wide parallel taxiway on the West side of 18/36. Once the airport gets the South Shore moved to the West side of the terminal they can go ahead and work on lowering Bendix Drive so they can add another extension on to Rwy 9R/27L if they want to and install a new High Intensity Approach Light System as they do have approval for a CATII Approach to 27L, again primarily all for freight. They also have a open contract to mill and repave the center 125ft of 9R/27L which will allow them to install the centerline and touchdown zone lighting at the same time as required for the CATII Approach.

There has been zero talk of a SBN-NYC flight for DL. The only time one generally comes in is on a one off for a Notre Dame football game. The station manager wants to get a SLC flight but nothing on that either. I think COVID-19 put a stop to quite a few plans. DL is back up to 3 morning departures. Still down from the 5 that they had pre-Covid. DL is hoping between gates 5,6,7 and 5, 6A and 6 for the morning departures. The airport has given them 30 days to use 7 and then reevaluate from there. It works now because UA’s first departure isn’t until 8am and DL’s last morning flight is scheduled to leave at 7am

Talk in SBN is that Gate 9 is getting paved here rather soon. Jetbridge and A320s are sinking into the concrete and creating a hazard. Same issue is also happening at Gate 5 with Delta. The weight of the aircraft is creating divots in the concrete. Allegiant will take gates 2 and 3 and American will utilize gate 7 until the project is completed.

Removal and realignment of taxiway Bravo is underway.

rampantfox wrote:

Talk in SBN is that Gate 9 is getting paved here rather soon. Jetbridge and A320s are sinking into the concrete and creating a hazard. Same issue is also happening at Gate 5 with Delta. The weight of the aircraft is creating divots in the concrete. Allegiant will take gates 2 and 3 and American will utilize gate 7 until the project is completed.

Removal and realignment of taxiway Bravo is underway.

The whole Ramp needs a rebuild. Delta had to move their Gate 5 jets over to the former Gate 4 area because the concrete is thicker.

When they built the new terminal they should have rebuilt the whole parking ramp with heavy reinforced concrete. That was Shalliol's fault. Musical gates because of the cheapass asphalt. I do not think it even met FAA Specs to be honest. Gates 2 thru 4 area have the thicker concrete which was part of the original concrete when the old terminal was here.

The plan is for a complete ramp rebuild taking out all the slopes. Cost 3.5 Million Dollars. It ceases to amaze me how that SBN can have a nice building but crappy pavement and FWA can have a ho hum building with pristine pavement. A couple of us who would like to see things better have been on management's ass for years to get this done.

The Delta RFP for SBN-JFK was over 5 years ago when Business traffic was going to New York. With Business Traffic down and International non existent and Business Travel shifting towards Texas no reason to start that flight any more. SLC though would be highly desired for better West Coast connections and to beat UA at the DEN game. Would also be good during ski season and during that time period an A220 could work for hauling all the skis and luggage. Delta want's the pavement fixed first and then they will talk about mainline.

Taxiway Bravo is going to be nice concrete with paved shoulders. From the drawings it looks like it will be 100ft wide with a de-ice ramp which should make it nice for A300 freight dogs.

Just my thoughts here.

rampantfox wrote:

There has been zero talk of a SBN-NYC flight for DL. The only time one generally comes in is on a one off for a Notre Dame football game. The station manager wants to get a SLC flight but nothing on that either. I think COVID-19 put a stop to quite a few plans. DL is back up to 3 morning departures. Still down from the 5 that they had pre-Covid. DL is hoping between gates 5,6,7 and 5, 6A and 6 for the morning departures. The airport has given them 30 days to use 7 and then reevaluate from there. It works now because UA’s first departure isn’t until 8am and DL’s last morning flight is scheduled to leave at 7am

They just do not have enough gate space at certain times. The DL station manager had all the data from the time they ground handled F9 which shows that they could profitably operate a SLC flight with the proper aircraft.

TaxiwayB rebuild and realignment was for the Freight operators and to satisfy the FAA by separating the taxiway from the ramp. While Covid had traffic down last year iI personally if I was in management would have started on Gate 9 and completely rebuilt the ramp from there one Gate at a time. They could have had Gate 8 and 9 done in no time. Now as traffic is returning and the ramp is falling apart under the weight of the aircraft they have to be rushed to do it.