BangersAndMash wrote:
You're just showing your ignorance here.
Clearly you don't know that the main business airport for Milan is LIN, not MXP.
I've flown into both airports. If you factor in LIN, there is still twice the amount of flight on ULCC as Alitalia.
And BCN-AGP, a business route?
Sure!
Most business markets in Spain are well served by HSR. It's hard to find another market that's not well served by HSR and have some business demand in Spain.
As for Dublin-London, the main traffic driver is VFR. There is a massive Irish community in London due to historical connections and the fact that the Irish can come and go (and work) pretty much as they please between the 2 countries. Trust me, you won't see many business types on those FR flights from STN. Not when LHR and LCY are far more practical for business travellers.
lol, like there is no business travelers around STN. You don't need 8 flights a day during COVID time just for VFR traffic.
If you need more examples for business markets in the UK
London-GLA
https://www.google.com/travel/flights/s ... FAAUgBmAECLondon-BFS
https://www.google.com/travel/flights/s ... FAAUgBmAECplenty of U2 presence in these markets
And of course, London-Paris
https://www.google.com/travel/flights/s ... UABSAGYAQILondon-BCN
https://www.google.com/travel/flights/s ... FAAUgBmAECPlenty of ULCC presence also.
I'm not going to talk about Asia as it's not a market I know well. But I expect you can draw similar conclusions. Size tells you very little without knowing the underlying traffic drivers. Oh, and AK and JQ and its affiliates are LCCs not ULCCs, so not in scope, since we're talking NK, not WN.
AK and JQ are definitely ULCCs. You would know this if you have ever flown on one.
If WN is struggling with attracting business travellers (they've admitted themselves they'd love to see more on their planes), what makes you think these travellers will hit the floor and fly NK? This is just complete and utter nonsense.
WN carries a lot of business travelers. Go check out the people that line up on those intra-California flights and tell me what kind of travelers they look like. WN has always captured a lot of the short haul business travelers. The same type NK will attract if they can offer better schedules out of MCO.
Thanks for telling us you based your decision on convenience, not price. Which was precisely my point. There are plenty of other parameters non price sensitive travellers will take into account, from departure/arrival airport, schedule, product, and more. On most of these, most of the time, a legacy will do better than a ULCC.
The issue is NK has not achieved network or frequency level out of MCO. That will happen once they double or triple their size at MCO. And then, they will be the most convenient airline for a lot of people.
You are simply ignoring this point.
That does not mean all of those travelers will fly on NK. But some of those will.
The US market IS different from other markets in that regard. ULCC penetration is lower than in Europe. And it will most likely remain that way. European network carriers underestimated ULCCs and allowed them to grow unchecked for too long (there were other reasons, but this was a major one). This has not happened in the US, where legacies recognised and countered the threat earlier. ULCC growth in the future will have its limits as a result.
The pandemic is an opportunity for everybody. You just have to go out and take it. Other carriers aren't going to sit back and cheer while ULCCs eat their lunch. And actually, most carriers have seized the moment, irrespective of business model (apart maybe from DL, which seems to be following a more classic playbook).
The legacies are all weakened significantly and will be smaller than 2019 for a couple of years. NK is already at pre-COVID size and will probably double in size in 5 years.
There are certain markets that are protected like NYC and LAX due to slot/gate constraints. That does not apply to MCO or LAS.
You completely misunderstand the rationale for these weekend flights. The legacies are not competing with LCCs/ULCCs on these routes. And how could they with the low frequency. Legacies are serving a captive audience. For these travellers, the fact that NK flies every day of the week, however many times, simply does not matter.
And what would more NK flying do to the yield for legacies? Probably not a lot. And anyway, it's not about yields. It's about network strength in origin cities. As long as it makes strategic sense in these places, and the flights are not heavily loss-making, they will continue. And given the way they are targeted, I would be ready to guess they're probably making more money than you think.
The Saturday only flight are utilization plays.
These flights are very low yielding. Florida in general are very low yielding markets for legacy carriers. They help legacies fill seats on other part of their network. But over time, those one-stop itineraries are going to become more and more lower and lower yielding.
its already built into the price without the ability to deselect it. Just like when you pull into a gas station and they give you a price discount for using cash. Regardless of whether you pay with a credit card 99% of the places you go the credit card fee is already built into the price.
