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juanchito
Posts: 1313
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2000 2:35 am

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Sep 03, 2021 3:55 pm

New routes for United to Central America

https://liveandletsfly.com/united-airli ... in-routes/

ORD-GUA - 1 weekly saturdays only
DEN-RTB - 1 weekly saturdays only
 
skybird77
Posts: 178
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:15 pm

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:36 pm

juanchito wrote:
New routes for United to Central America

https://liveandletsfly.com/united-airli ... in-routes/

ORD-GUA - 1 weekly saturdays only
DEN-RTB - 1 weekly saturdays only


Wow! I never imagined DEN-RTB. I’ve always wondered why no weekly EWR-RTB (even seasonal).
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 3236
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:45 pm

UA DEN-RTB would be the first time ever linking these points by means of scheduled flights.
UA DEN-RTB 1x weekly is due to start on December 18th.
Frontier had already announced F9 DEN-BZE 1x weekly and F9 DEN-LIR 1x weekly, by the end of 2021 as well.
UA would launch this brand new route, preventing the possible incursion of any F9 DEN-RTB.
Notice how many new segments has United announced in 2021: UA LAX-SAP, UA ORD-GUA, UA DEN-RTB, UA LAX-SJO, UA LAX-LIR and so on. They're also increasing the weekly frequencies, in thier consolidated routes in the isthmus.
 
avi8
Posts: 1407
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:36 am

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:37 pm

SJOtoLIR wrote:
UA DEN-RTB would be the first time ever linking these points by means of scheduled flights.
UA DEN-RTB 1x weekly is due to start on December 18th.
Frontier had already announced F9 DEN-BZE 1x weekly and F9 DEN-LIR 1x weekly, by the end of 2021 as well.
UA would launch this brand new route, preventing the possible incursion of any F9 DEN-RTB.
Notice how many new segments has United announced in 2021: UA LAX-SAP, UA ORD-GUA, UA DEN-RTB, UA LAX-SJO, UA LAX-LIR and so on. They're also increasing the weekly frequencies, in thier consolidated routes in the isthmus.


Which routes are they increasing. UA really did steal market share in the pandemic. And for the long run. They have hubs in the most dense VFR routes to the region.
 
SJOtoLIR
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Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:42 pm

REDHL wrote:
Volaris El Salvador has officially received its AOC. It will begin operations on September 15, on the SAL-MEX route.
Subsequently, it will be launching services to CUN and SAP from October 15 and 31, respectively.

Under the Volaris Costa Rica brand, they're actually flying on Q6 SAL-IAD, Q6 SAL-LAX, Q6 SAL-SJO and Q6 SAL-GUA.
Let's pay attention on how they'd operate these existing routes later.
Q6 SAL-CUN was operated in 2017.

Regards.
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 3236
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:12 pm

avi8 wrote:
Which routes are they increasing

They're getting a robust presence at this time, in some selected routes originated especially from its Houston hub.
That equates almost their former weekly frequencies, prior to March 2020:

UA IAH-GUA: 21x weekly
UA IAH-SAL: 21x weekly
UA IAH-SAP: 14x weekly
UA IAH-BZE: 11x weekly
UA IAH-SJO: 18x weekly
UA EWR-SJO 13x weekly.

Given the recent order of 200 more 737 MAX jets, it's a good sight for a huge presence of the airline regionally.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/united-airlines-orders-200-more-boeing-737-max-jets-301321605.html

Regards.
 
LightChop2Chop
Posts: 229
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:33 pm

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:40 am

IMHO DEN RTB is just UA recognizing that it’s a similar (albeit smaller) market to DEN BZE that UA started in the pandemic and that will be daily by next March. WN also flies DEN BZE in addition to the mentioned F9. DEN RTB is probable an extension of that thinking. It should do well. Roatan is all about diving and Colorado is full of divers.
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 3236
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:19 pm

LightChop2Chop wrote:
IMHO DEN RTB is just UA recognizing that it’s a similar (albeit smaller) market to DEN BZE

It's a good point.
Denver is becoming in the new US gateway for Central America, supplying non-stop flights to Belize City [December 11], Panama City [November 17], Roatan [December 18], Liberia and San Jose.
DEN-BZE, DEN-RTB and DEN-LIR are exclusively oriented for leisure travelers.
The island of Roatan unfortunately lost the connectivity on AV SAL-RTB 7x weekly on ATR turbo-props.




.
UA is leading the supremacy as the US carrier having more flights to Central America by now.
Almost all the Central American countries have UA services at this time.
Watching the route map of the airline, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Denver, Houston, Chicago, Washington and New York/Newark are connecting the United States and Central America. A very well served market.
Even from March till August 2020, UA never stopped their services offering rescue flights from Houston to some Central American cities.

Regards.
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 3236
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:22 pm

SJOtoLIR wrote:
status of the non Star Alliance code-share partners on Copa Airlines: GOL, KLM, Air France, Air Europa, Azul and Emirates.
AeroMexico is not listed anymore:


Update:

Image
 
2travel2know2
Posts: 3056
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:01 pm

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:11 pm

Given UA expansion in Central America with niche routes, it'd be worth knowing if among those routes US has been studying are:
IAH - FRS Flores/Tikal. Once upon a time flown by Continental. Distance is within UA EMB145/CRJ range.
IAH - LCE La Ceiba. LCE had flights to USA before RTB became a leisure destination. More likely distance still within UA EMB145/CRJ range. However, LCE may not be that attractive being too close to SAP.
IAH - XPL Soto Cano Palmerola Comayagua. Is UA going to move from TGU to XPL ? Operating to XPL would allow UA to offer evening IAH-XPL
IAH - DAV David. DAV has never had scheduled non-stop flights to USA, IMHO, even if the market demand might shift towards MIA, perhaps UA beats CM linking DAV with USA? Distance between DAV and IAH most likely within UA EMB170/175 range, perhaps even of some of UA regional CRJ.
IAH - RIH Río Hato. This one depends a lot if the surrounding hotels and attractions prove to be strong enough to woo UA operating there, as the airport is about 2h30m by car (that's with no/little traffic) from PTY. I'd dare to say that there are times of the day, when people living west of The Panama Canal could get faster to/from RIH than PTY.
EMB170/175 and CRJ might not have the range, B737-700/A319 probably more suitable for that route.

IAH FRS 158° (S) 156° (SE) 964 mi
IAH LCE 149° (SE) 147° (SE) 1,119 mi
IAH XPL 154° (SE) 152° (SE) 1,181 mi
IAH DAV 148° (SE) 146° (SE) 1,705 mi
IAH RIH 143° (SE) 141° (SE) 1,783 mi
(distances from http://www.gcmap.com)
 
Chele737
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed May 16, 2012 4:37 pm

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:13 pm

skybird77 wrote:
juanchito wrote:
New routes for United to Central America

https://liveandletsfly.com/united-airli ... in-routes/

ORD-GUA - 1 weekly saturdays only
DEN-RTB - 1 weekly saturdays only


Wow! I never imagined DEN-RTB. I’ve always wondered why no weekly EWR-RTB (even seasonal).


Huge diver's market out of DEN area (maybe time for some cnx), flight will arrive RTB at 3pm LT
 
Chele737
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed May 16, 2012 4:37 pm

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:13 pm

skybird77 wrote:
juanchito wrote:
New routes for United to Central America

https://liveandletsfly.com/united-airli ... in-routes/

ORD-GUA - 1 weekly saturdays only
DEN-RTB - 1 weekly saturdays only


Wow! I never imagined DEN-RTB. I’ve always wondered why no weekly EWR-RTB (even seasonal).


Huge diver's market out of DEN area (maybe time for some cnx), flight will arrive RTB at 3pm LT
 
skybird77
Posts: 178
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:15 pm

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:48 pm

Chele737 wrote:
skybird77 wrote:
juanchito wrote:
New routes for United to Central America

https://liveandletsfly.com/united-airli ... in-routes/

ORD-GUA - 1 weekly saturdays only
DEN-RTB - 1 weekly saturdays only


Wow! I never imagined DEN-RTB. I’ve always wondered why no weekly EWR-RTB (even seasonal).


Huge diver's market out of DEN area (maybe time for some cnx), flight will arrive RTB at 3pm LT


Interesting, I had no idea. It’s good news for Roatan tourism. With that, RTB will have direct service from MIA (albeit a E-175), IAH, DFW, and ATL. Does anyone know If the Canadians be back for the winter (Toronto and Montreal)?
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 3236
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Sep 06, 2021 2:44 am

skybird77 wrote:
RTB will have direct service from MIA (albeit a E-175), IAH, DFW, and ATL.

AA DFW-RTB is not operating now.
I ignore if WS YYZ-RTB, TS YYZ-RTB and TS YUL-RTB would be back later.

Regards.
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 3236
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Sep 06, 2021 3:53 am

Spirit announces new flights from Miami to Central America:

October 06: NK MIA-GUA. 4x weekly 320
October 07: NK MIA-SAL. 3x weekly. 320
November 17: NK MIA-SAP 7x weekly. 320 Neo
November 17: NK MIA-SJO. 4x weekly 320 Neo

https://www.nlarenas.com/2021/07/spirit-vuelos-desde-miami-hacia-latinoamerica/
 
dfw88
Posts: 187
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:25 pm

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Sep 06, 2021 4:01 am

SJOtoLIR wrote:
skybird77 wrote:
RTB will have direct service from MIA (albeit a E-175), IAH, DFW, and ATL.

AA DFW-RTB is not operating now.
I ignore if WS YYZ-RTB, TS YYZ-RTB and TS YUL-RTB would be back later.

Regards.


DFW-RTB is scheduled to come back in November, so while it's true that it's not operating now, it will be during peak season this winter and spring.
 
LightChop2Chop
Posts: 229
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:33 pm

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Sep 06, 2021 1:32 pm

SJOtoLIR wrote:
Spirit announces new flights from Miami to Central America:

October 06: NK MIA-GUA. 4x weekly 320
October 07: NK MIA-SAL. 3x weekly. 320
November 17: NK MIA-SAP 7x weekly. 320 Neo
November 17: NK MIA-SJO. 4x weekly 320 Neo

https://www.nlarenas.com/2021/07/spirit-vuelos-desde-miami-hacia-latinoamerica/



NK have really entrenched themselves in SAP. Not sure where it stands now but IIRC they have service to FLL, IAH, MSY, MCO and now MIA from SAP.
 
SJOtoLIR
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Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:05 pm

San Pedro Sula is becoming into a low cost airport, given the upcoming operations announced for this sort of airlines:

October 31: N3 SAL-SAP
November 17: NK MIA-SAP
December: B6 JFK-SAP

This statement is being reinforced by the current flights supplied for Spirit there:

NK IAH-SAP
NK MSY-SAP
NK MCO-SAP
NK FLL-SAP

None of the Central American airports are getting the amount of different US stations as NK does in San Pedro Sula as pointing out before.
 
LightChop2Chop
Posts: 229
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:33 pm

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:22 pm

Does NK still have a credit card relationship with a bank in Honduras (IIRC Atlantida?). If so, this has to help their visibility there.
 
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juanchito
Posts: 1313
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2000 2:35 am

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:24 pm

New flights that Avianca announced weeks ago will start flying in December

Costa Rica flights
https://www.avianca.com/cr/es/descubre- ... omociones/

Guatemala flights
https://www.avianca.com/gt/es/descubre- ... omociones/
 
skybird77
Posts: 178
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:15 pm

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Sep 07, 2021 3:56 pm

LightChop2Chop wrote:
Does NK still have a credit card relationship with a bank in Honduras (IIRC Atlantida?). If so, this has to help their visibility there.

I believe it’s Banco Promerica
 
N292UX
Posts: 739
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:08 pm

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:18 pm

2travel2know2 wrote:
Given UA expansion in Central America with niche routes, it'd be worth knowing if among those routes US has been studying are:
IAH - FRS Flores/Tikal. Once upon a time flown by Continental. Distance is within UA EMB145/CRJ range.
IAH - LCE La Ceiba. LCE had flights to USA before RTB became a leisure destination. More likely distance still within UA EMB145/CRJ range. However, LCE may not be that attractive being too close to SAP.
IAH - XPL Soto Cano Palmerola Comayagua. Is UA going to move from TGU to XPL ? Operating to XPL would allow UA to offer evening IAH-XPL
IAH - DAV David. DAV has never had scheduled non-stop flights to USA, IMHO, even if the market demand might shift towards MIA, perhaps UA beats CM linking DAV with USA? Distance between DAV and IAH most likely within UA EMB170/175 range, perhaps even of some of UA regional CRJ.
IAH - RIH Río Hato. This one depends a lot if the surrounding hotels and attractions prove to be strong enough to woo UA operating there, as the airport is about 2h30m by car (that's with no/little traffic) from PTY. I'd dare to say that there are times of the day, when people living west of The Panama Canal could get faster to/from RIH than PTY.
EMB170/175 and CRJ might not have the range, B737-700/A319 probably more suitable for that route.

IAH FRS 158° (S) 156° (SE) 964 mi
IAH LCE 149° (SE) 147° (SE) 1,119 mi
IAH XPL 154° (SE) 152° (SE) 1,181 mi
IAH DAV 148° (SE) 146° (SE) 1,705 mi
IAH RIH 143° (SE) 141° (SE) 1,783 mi
(distances from http://www.gcmap.com)

Some of those certainly seem plausible, DAV/XPL both seem like decent possibilities.

Some other routes I could see the US3 adding could be:
DL MSP-SJO
AA PHL-SJO
AA DFW-PTY
DL LAX-PTY
DL ATL-MGA
AA CLT-PTY
 
N292UX
Posts: 739
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:08 pm

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:21 pm

I also think we could see B6 add PTY/SAL, NK add routes like MCO-MGA, MSY-SAL, and maybe TPA-SAL/GUA
 
MGASJO
Posts: 364
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:37 am

Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:30 pm

N292UX wrote:
I also think we could see B6 add PTY/SAL, NK add routes like MCO-MGA, MSY-SAL, and maybe TPA-SAL/GUA

No US airline will return to service into MGA unless they somehow ease the COVID requirements for crewmembers


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rjbesikof
Posts: 378
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Sep 07, 2021 9:34 pm

Does DL still serve MSP-LIR?
 
SJOtoLIR
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:00 pm

N292UX wrote:
DL MSP-SJO
AA PHL-SJO
AA DFW-PTY
DL LAX-PTY
DL ATL-MGA
AA CLT-PTY


DL MSP-SJO. It might be. DL and SY flies MSP-LIR seasonally.
AA PHL-SJO. It was in service seasonally, before March 2020.
AA DFW-PTY. It was barely in service as 1x weekly for their last days.
DL LAX-PTY. They will face CM PTY-LAX 14x weekly.
DL ATL-MGA. Already commented.
AA CLT-PTY. No comment.
B6 JFK-PTY. It will face CM PTY-JFK 31x weekly.
B6 JFK-SAL. It will face AV SAL-JFK 14x weekly, DL JFK-SAL 7x weekly and N3 SAL-JFK [Volaris El Salvador] soon.
NK MCO-MGA. Already commented.
NK MSY-SAL. The O&D traffic New Orleans - Central America is located in Honduras.
NK TPA-SAL. No comment.
NK TPA-GUA. No comment.

Regards.
Last edited by SJOtoLIR on Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 3236
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:04 pm

rjbesikof wrote:
Does DL still serve MSP-LIR?

Prior to March 2020, it was in service from December till March, on a weekly basis.
I remember the Northwest brand serving MSP-LIR, so long ago.

Regards.
 
2travel2know2
Posts: 3056
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:01 pm

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:04 pm

N292UX wrote:
2travel2know2 wrote:
Given UA expansion in Central America with niche routes, it'd be worth knowing if among those routes US has been studying are:
IAH - FRS Flores/Tikal. Once upon a time flown by Continental. Distance is within UA EMB145/CRJ range.
IAH - LCE La Ceiba. LCE had flights to USA before RTB became a leisure destination. More likely distance still within UA EMB145/CRJ range. However, LCE may not be that attractive being too close to SAP.
IAH - XPL Soto Cano Palmerola Comayagua. Is UA going to move from TGU to XPL ? Operating to XPL would allow UA to offer evening IAH-XPL
IAH - DAV David. DAV has never had scheduled non-stop flights to USA, IMHO, even if the market demand might shift towards MIA, perhaps UA beats CM linking DAV with USA? Distance between DAV and IAH most likely within UA EMB170/175 range, perhaps even of some of UA regional CRJ.
IAH - RIH Río Hato. This one depends a lot if the surrounding hotels and attractions prove to be strong enough to woo UA operating there, as the airport is about 2h30m by car (that's with no/little traffic) from PTY. I'd dare to say that there are times of the day, when people living west of The Panama Canal could get faster to/from RIH than PTY.
EMB170/175 and CRJ might not have the range, B737-700/A319 probably more suitable for that route.

IAH FRS 158° (S) 156° (SE) 964 mi
IAH LCE 149° (SE) 147° (SE) 1,119 mi
IAH XPL 154° (SE) 152° (SE) 1,181 mi
IAH DAV 148° (SE) 146° (SE) 1,705 mi
IAH RIH 143° (SE) 141° (SE) 1,783 mi
(distances from http://www.gcmap.com)

Some of those certainly seem plausible, DAV/XPL both seem like decent possibilities.

Some other routes I could see the US3 adding could be:
DL MSP-SJO
AA PHL-SJO
AA DFW-PTY
This one looks like only CM would make it work. AA has failed several times, my guess (among other issues) is that DFW-PTY-DFW wasn't timed to allow immediate connections to/from AA NRT and other Asian flights.
DL LAX-PTY
If DL wants to do something different in PTY, bring back the evening ATL-PTY and early morning PTY-ATL, at least several days per week. Not really sure if SLC-PTY or DTW-PTY, might work.. maybe November-January only?
DL ATL-MGA
AA CLT-PTY
Does any of AA regional jets E170/5 have the range for CLT-PTY? We'd see that happening after AA adds another MIA-PTY (dally or not, RJ or not)..
IMHO, the key for CLT-PTY success might be what kind of connections and how fast the transfers @ CLT. Also, chances it may work, will be higher November to January.. or U.S. summer time months.. Definitely, thrice or twice weekly may be more than enough.
 
MGASJO
Posts: 364
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:37 am

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:32 pm

2travel2know2 wrote:
N292UX wrote:
2travel2know2 wrote:
Given UA expansion in Central America with niche routes, it'd be worth knowing if among those routes US has been studying are:
IAH - FRS Flores/Tikal. Once upon a time flown by Continental. Distance is within UA EMB145/CRJ range.
IAH - LCE La Ceiba. LCE had flights to USA before RTB became a leisure destination. More likely distance still within UA EMB145/CRJ range. However, LCE may not be that attractive being too close to SAP.
IAH - XPL Soto Cano Palmerola Comayagua. Is UA going to move from TGU to XPL ? Operating to XPL would allow UA to offer evening IAH-XPL
IAH - DAV David. DAV has never had scheduled non-stop flights to USA, IMHO, even if the market demand might shift towards MIA, perhaps UA beats CM linking DAV with USA? Distance between DAV and IAH most likely within UA EMB170/175 range, perhaps even of some of UA regional CRJ.
IAH - RIH Río Hato. This one depends a lot if the surrounding hotels and attractions prove to be strong enough to woo UA operating there, as the airport is about 2h30m by car (that's with no/little traffic) from PTY. I'd dare to say that there are times of the day, when people living west of The Panama Canal could get faster to/from RIH than PTY.
EMB170/175 and CRJ might not have the range, B737-700/A319 probably more suitable for that route.

IAH FRS 158° (S) 156° (SE) 964 mi
IAH LCE 149° (SE) 147° (SE) 1,119 mi
IAH XPL 154° (SE) 152° (SE) 1,181 mi
IAH DAV 148° (SE) 146° (SE) 1,705 mi
IAH RIH 143° (SE) 141° (SE) 1,783 mi
(distances from http://www.gcmap.com)

Some of those certainly seem plausible, DAV/XPL both seem like decent possibilities.

Some other routes I could see the US3 adding could be:
DL MSP-SJO
AA PHL-SJO
AA DFW-PTY
This one looks like only CM would make it work. AA has failed several times, my guess (among other issues) is that DFW-PTY-DFW wasn't timed to allow immediate connections to/from AA NRT and other Asian flights.
DL LAX-PTY
If DL wants to do something different in PTY, bring back the evening ATL-PTY and early morning PTY-ATL, at least several days per week. Not really sure if SLC-PTY or DTW-PTY, might work.. maybe November-January only?
DL ATL-MGA
AA CLT-PTY
Does any of AA regional jets E170/5 have the range for CLT-PTY? We'd see that happening after AA adds another MIA-PTY (dally or not, RJ or not)..
IMHO, the key for CLT-PTY success might be what kind of connections and how fast the transfers @ CLT. Also, chances it may work, will be higher November to January.. or U.S. summer time months.. Definitely, thrice or twice weekly may be more than enough.

170/175 can do the 1566nm journey. I think only republic has overwater equipped airplanes for the mission


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 3236
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:20 pm

The opening of new US destinations heading to Central America may start with limited weekly frequencies.
For instance, UA ORD-LIR, UA ORD-SJO, UA SFO-LIR and DL ATL-RTB are barely operating on a weekly basis.
The current demand of passengers doesn't need more seats in such routes by now.
 
N292UX
Posts: 739
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:08 pm

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:26 pm

MGASJO wrote:
2travel2know2 wrote:
N292UX wrote:
Some of those certainly seem plausible, DAV/XPL both seem like decent possibilities.

Some other routes I could see the US3 adding could be:
DL MSP-SJO
AA PHL-SJO
AA DFW-PTY
This one looks like only CM would make it work. AA has failed several times, my guess (among other issues) is that DFW-PTY-DFW wasn't timed to allow immediate connections to/from AA NRT and other Asian flights.
DL LAX-PTY
If DL wants to do something different in PTY, bring back the evening ATL-PTY and early morning PTY-ATL, at least several days per week. Not really sure if SLC-PTY or DTW-PTY, might work.. maybe November-January only?
DL ATL-MGA
AA CLT-PTY
Does any of AA regional jets E170/5 have the range for CLT-PTY? We'd see that happening after AA adds another MIA-PTY (dally or not, RJ or not)..
IMHO, the key for CLT-PTY success might be what kind of connections and how fast the transfers @ CLT. Also, chances it may work, will be higher November to January.. or U.S. summer time months.. Definitely, thrice or twice weekly may be more than enough.

170/175 can do the 1566nm journey. I think only republic has overwater equipped airplanes for the mission


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The E175s can make that route, it'd be right up there with longest US3 E175 flights. Don't think it would be the longest though. Pretty sure UA has some longer ones out of ORD and SFO. Though I think AA operates E175 flights from MIA to Colombia, so it wouldn't be unheard of.
 
MGASJO
Posts: 364
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:37 am

Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:20 pm

N292UX wrote:
MGASJO wrote:
2travel2know2 wrote:
This one looks like only CM would make it work. AA has failed several times, my guess (among other issues) is that DFW-PTY-DFW wasn't timed to allow immediate connections to/from AA NRT and other Asian flights.If DL wants to do something different in PTY, bring back the evening ATL-PTY and early morning PTY-ATL, at least several days per week. Not really sure if SLC-PTY or DTW-PTY, might work.. maybe November-January only?Does any of AA regional jets E170/5 have the range for CLT-PTY? We'd see that happening after AA adds another MIA-PTY (dally or not, RJ or not)..
IMHO, the key for CLT-PTY success might be what kind of connections and how fast the transfers @ CLT. Also, chances it may work, will be higher November to January.. or U.S. summer time months.. Definitely, thrice or twice weekly may be more than enough.

170/175 can do the 1566nm journey. I think only republic has overwater equipped airplanes for the mission


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The E175s can make that route, it'd be right up there with longest US3 E175 flights. Don't think it would be the longest though. Pretty sure UA has some longer ones out of ORD and SFO. Though I think AA operates E175 flights from MIA to Colombia, so it wouldn't be unheard of.

SFO-STL
SEA-MKE
SFO-MSP
Not quite as long, but the longer international route will have different alternate requirements


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SJOtoLIR
Posts: 3236
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:41 pm

I haven't found accurate sources, in order to justify my next point: as far as I remember, from August till November 2020 or so, some [US - Central America] routes having low demand of passengers in those days were briefly operatad with Embraer 170/175 jets. Thus, they could be fully overwater equipped.
I repeat: I'm not sure about it.
 
LightChop2Chop
Posts: 229
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 08, 2021 11:44 pm

Im not even sure the 170/175 needed to be over water equipped if the flew from Mia down past Cuba and down the coast of Central America. You can see land the entire way.
 
MGASJO
Posts: 364
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 09, 2021 2:50 am

LightChop2Chop wrote:
Im not even sure the 170/175 needed to be over water equipped if the flew from Mia down past Cuba and down the coast of Central America. You can see land the entire way.

It’s not what you can see, if not overwater equipped (life rafts and survival equipment) the flight cannot fly more than 50 nautical miles from the shore .


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SJOtoLIR
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 09, 2021 3:42 am

I suggest to check the last inputs as American Eagle on behalf of American Airlines is flying the following routes from Miami with Embraer 170/175 jets.
They're mostly operated over the sea.
Miami - Providenciales: 503nm.
Miami - Merida: 593nm.

Image

Here are some evidences about the E170/175 in these stations:


Nassau


Nassau
 
MGASJO
Posts: 364
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:31 am

SJOtoLIR wrote:
I suggest to check the last inputs as American Eagle on behalf of American Airlines is flying the following routes from Miami with Embraer 170/175 jets.
They're mostly operated over the sea.
Miami - Providenciales: 503nm.
Miami - Merida: 593nm.

Image

Here are some evidences about the E170/175 in these stations:


Nassau


Nassau

Seems envoy has a couple of overwater equipped airplanes based in MIA.
MIA-NAS does not need to be overwater, you’re always at least 50nm from a shore


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avi8
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 09, 2021 12:12 pm

AA also operates MIA-RTB with an E175 and operated one of the PTY flights not too long ago.
 
SJOtoLIR
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:43 pm

I found this source elaborated by European Aviation Safety Agency, in 2007.
They did a comparision between the Embraer 170/175/190/195 series.

Image

The Embraer 190 had been utilized for Copa Airlines in overwater operations, like CM PTY-KIN, CM PTY-MBJ, CM PTY-SJU, CM PTY-SXM, CM PTY-SDQ, CM PTY-PUJ and so on.
I cannot understand why the E90 can do it, but on the contrary, the E 170/75 could get constraints taking into account AA MIA-RTB, AA MIA-PTY and AA MIA-LIR for a while.

Full report: https://www.easa.europa.eu/sites/defaul ... Report.pdf
 
2travel2know2
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 09, 2021 2:18 pm

Which flight paths (air-corridors) do AA use when flying MIA-PTY/BAQ with E175?
So in an event that AA would dare (?) flying CLT-PTY E175, the detour might make the route non-viable because of E175 range?
IMHO, PTY O/D might fill a CLT bound E175 as long as AA is to fly CLT-PTY evenings and PTY-CLT mornings.. a few days per week, seasonal of course..
 
avi8
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 09, 2021 3:59 pm

CLT isn’t really a Latin American gateway with the exception of a few Caribbean destinations and LIR/SJO.

If anything AA would restart DFW-PTY.
 
SJOtoLIR
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:15 pm

The [Charlotte - Central America] service is seasonal.
It's not working at this time.
Their weekly flights to the region are limited.

Image

Edited on September 09, 2021.
 
MGASJO
Posts: 364
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:03 pm

SJOtoLIR wrote:
I found this source elaborated by European Aviation Safety Agency, in 2007.
They did a comparision between the Embraer 170/175/190/195 series.

Image

The Embraer 190 had been utilized for Copa Airlines in overwater operations, like CM PTY-KIN, CM PTY-MBJ, CM PTY-SJU, CM PTY-SXM, CM PTY-SDQ, CM PTY-PUJ and so on.
I cannot understand why the E90 can do it, but on the contrary, the E 170/75 could get constraints taking into account AA MIA-RTB, AA MIA-PTY and AA MIA-LIR for a while.

Full report: https://www.easa.europa.eu/sites/defaul ... Report.pdf

Being overwater equipped is an operator decision complying with regulations. Republic and envoy have some 170s and 175s equipped. As for CM 190s they complied with local regulations for overwater flights, very different from US ones (ie the didn’t carry life rafts)


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many321
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:27 am

Was looking over Avianca's flight schedule for the end of the year, and their upgauging their SAL-ONT route with an A320 and going from 3x a week to 6x a week starting in Dec 17 and ending in Mid January, going back to 3x a week.
 
many321
Posts: 330
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:07 pm

ONT just posted their August metrics including Avianca's. Take a look.

https://www.flyontario.com/sites/defaul ... g_2021.pdf
 
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REDHL
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:43 pm

Copa Airlines will be launching flights between PTY and ATL starting December 12, subject to government approval. The flights will be operated 4x weekly (Tuesday, Wednesday, Saturday and Sunday) with 737-800 equipment. According to the airline's reservation page, the itinerary is as follows:

CM880: PTY 09:26 - 13:28 ATL - B738
CM881: ATL 16:04 - 20:18 PTY - B738

In my opinion, the new flight could be interpreted as a response to Delta's move to operate flights between JFK and PTY on December 19, but at the same time as an opportunity to break Delta's monopoly on the ATL-PTY route and give travelers more options to choose from.

And in other news, after almost 6 years of its launch, Copa will not resume its flights to MSY due to relatively low seat load factors.
 
LightChop2Chop
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:34 pm

ATL for CM is a surprise. There are so many other US cities that have a much bigger latin market than ATL. Dallas, Houston, Austin, PHL, PHX etc. IMHO, DL needs the full strength of its Network to fill its ATL PTY flights and even those have struggled. I just don't see this flight working, but I am sure CM has better insight into the market than I do. Perhaps CM's business contracts demand it.

Huge carriers like QR and BA struggle in ATL against DL.

Heck, I probably would have done PTY BNA before I did ATL.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:20 pm

LightChop2Chop wrote:
ATL for CM is a surprise. There are so many other US cities that have a much bigger latin market than ATL. Dallas, Houston, Austin, PHL, PHX etc. IMHO, DL needs the full strength of its Network to fill its ATL PTY flights and even those have struggled. I just don't see this flight working, but I am sure CM has better insight into the market than I do. Perhaps CM's business contracts demand it.

Huge carriers like QR and BA struggle in ATL against DL.

Heck, I probably would have done PTY BNA before I did ATL.


Austin definitely does not have a bigger Latin American market than Atlanta. Nor is PHX bigger market to Latin America outside of Western Mexico.

Houston is by far the largest of the ones youve listed but UA and CM have a gentleman's agreement of sorts not to fly to EWR or IAH.
 
2travel2know2
Posts: 3056
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:26 pm

LightChop2Chop wrote:
ATL for CM is a surprise. There are so many other US cities that have a much bigger latin market than ATL. Dallas, Houston, Austin, PHL, PHX etc. IMHO, DL needs the full strength of its Network to fill its ATL PTY flights and even those have struggled. I just don't see this flight working, but I am sure CM has better insight into the market than I do. Perhaps CM's business contracts demand it.
There has been a rise in Venezuela - Atlanta traffic recently, albeit, surely that's not the main reason why CM is to start ATL.
Another possible reason is that DL changed its schedule and now it's a day-time rotation; Europe-ATL-PTY connections gone.
What's true is that CM will be getting a lot of DL connecting traffic.
Huge carriers like QR and BA struggle in ATL against DL.
Those airlines have to fill wide-bodies.. and fly daily.. CM doesn't have that pressure.
Heck, I probably would have done PTY BNA before I did ATL.
CM might do well in DFW, HOU, AUS, PHL and PHX. IMHO, PTY-RDU or PTY-STL do have more potential than PTY-BNA.
REDHL wrote:
And in other news, after almost 6 years of its launch, Copa will not resume its flights to MSY due to relatively low seat load factors.
Sad to see MSY out of CM network.. That's one of CM getting rid of E190 victims.. and CM evening PTY-MSY, morning MSY-PTY didn't help either.. IMHO, PTY-MSY daytime rotations only Mondays and Fridays could work.
 
SJOtoLIR
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Re: Central American Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:27 pm

REDHL wrote:
Copa will not resume its flights to MSY due to relatively low seat load factors.

Regarding the US landscape, CM hasn't resumed New Orleans, Denver, San Francisco and Las Vegas.
Tampa and Boston are not working on a daily basis yet.

Regards.
Last edited by SJOtoLIR on Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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