PHX-BUR has been loaded in the schedule

LAXintl wrote:

Per media release will announce service at Burbank on Thursday.

Now showing up on their bookings.

BUR-DEN
BUR-PHX (more Avelo competition)
BUR-LAS

Ishrion wrote:

LAXintl wrote:

Per media release will announce service at Burbank on Thursday.

Now showing up on their bookings.

BUR-DEN
BUR-PHX (more Avelo competition)
BUR-LAS

DEN expected, especially after UA cut down to only 1x, but more LAS and PHX? Would loved to have seen ABQ, RNO, SAT or somewhere unserved.

RNO would have been a better market imho. Better to be the only flight to a smaller city then one of many to las. Especially for the off days of the week

Burbank effective July 15 to DEN, LAX and PHX

Also adding ONT-ATL for summer.

I like the additions. BUR has seen a sharp decline in service by the other airlines so great opportunity by F9 to take advantage. Also I think it might be a slight jab at Avelo as well, going into their only base to compete with them.

Frontier Group Holdings reported 1Q 2021 numbers. Total operating revenues down 50% to US$271 million, with net loss of $91 million.

https://ir.flyfrontier.com/news-release ... arter-2021

Any news on how the Central America flights are doing? I wonder if they will ever increase to more than 3 weekly.

For a airline their size and "network", there is much to be desired with these Q1 results. Now that they are public is shows they aren't immune to market whims like people thought before they went public. Unlike many other carriers, they don't really have a sizeable enough station with as many flights to really be a market leader, most of their stations they are bottom tier which means they rarely if any have much pricing power if any at all throughout their network. ORD,DFW,LAS,EWR all were attempted to be started up then quickly pulled down as soon as competition heated up. Now they are chomping at the bit at MIA which now WN and B6 came in and already pretty much surpassed them in flights. MCO and DEN are the only ones they have a decent market share but they are still not a market leader or control any pricing power in those markets especially DEN with UA and WN grabbing up market share more than before. I still think now they have gone public, they have a pricetag. B6 supposedly approached F9 a couple years ago, but the price wasn't worth it for them, and that was a when the market was good pre covid. It may be different now.

LAXintl wrote:

Frontier Group Holdings reported 1Q 2021 numbers. Total operating revenues down 50% to US$271 million, with net loss of $91 million.

https://ir.flyfrontier.com/news-release ... arter-2021

Abeam79 wrote:

For a airline their size and "network", there is much to be desired with these Q1 results. Now that they are public is shows they aren't immune to market whims like people thought before they went public. Unlike many other carriers, they don't really have a sizeable enough station with as many flights to really be a market leader, most of their stations they are bottom tier which means they rarely if any have much pricing power if any at all throughout their network. ORD,DFW,LAS,EWR all were attempted to be started up then quickly pulled down as soon as competition heated up. Now they are chomping at the bit at MIA which now WN and B6 came in and already pretty much surpassed them in flights. MCO and DEN are the only ones they have a decent market share but they are still not a market leader or control any pricing power in those markets especially DEN with UA and WN grabbing up market share more than before. I still think now they have gone public, they have a pricetag. B6 supposedly approached F9 a couple years ago, but the price wasn't worth it for them, and that was a when the market was good pre covid. It may be different now.

Meanwhile, over at Southwest, the industry's "model" of a well run, financially sound airline...

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 74465.html

First quarter 2021 total operating expenses decreased 57.3 percent, year-over-year, to $1.9 billion. Excluding special items, first quarter 2021 operating expenses decreased 23.5 percent, year-over-year, to $3.3 billion. Total operating expenses per ASM (CASM, or unit costs) decreased 34.9 percent, compared with first quarter 2020. Excluding special items, first quarter 2021 CASM increased 16.7 percent, year-over-year.

And over at Spirit, Frontier's ULCC airbus-flying competitor....

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 74189.html

Total operating revenues for the first quarter 2021 were $461.3 million, a decrease of 40.2 percent

The first quarter of 2021 is tough for everybody, post-COVID

Remember, Q1 2020 was the last "pre-COVID" quarter or at least the last quarter that had some remnants of normal travel. Then the world ended March 2020.

B350pilot wrote:

LAXintl wrote:

Frontier Group Holdings reported 1Q 2021 numbers. Total operating revenues down 50% to US$271 million, with net loss of $91 million.

https://ir.flyfrontier.com/news-release ... arter-2021

Abeam79 wrote:

For a airline their size and "network", there is much to be desired with these Q1 results. Now that they are public is shows they aren't immune to market whims like people thought before they went public. Unlike many other carriers, they don't really have a sizeable enough station with as many flights to really be a market leader, most of their stations they are bottom tier which means they rarely if any have much pricing power if any at all throughout their network. ORD,DFW,LAS,EWR all were attempted to be started up then quickly pulled down as soon as competition heated up. Now they are chomping at the bit at MIA which now WN and B6 came in and already pretty much surpassed them in flights. MCO and DEN are the only ones they have a decent market share but they are still not a market leader or control any pricing power in those markets especially DEN with UA and WN grabbing up market share more than before. I still think now they have gone public, they have a pricetag. B6 supposedly approached F9 a couple years ago, but the price wasn't worth it for them, and that was a when the market was good pre covid. It may be different now.

Meanwhile, over at Southwest, the industry's "model" of a well run, financially sound airline...

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 74465.html

First quarter 2021 total operating expenses decreased 57.3 percent, year-over-year, to $1.9 billion. Excluding special items, first quarter 2021 operating expenses decreased 23.5 percent, year-over-year, to $3.3 billion. Total operating expenses per ASM (CASM, or unit costs) decreased 34.9 percent, compared with first quarter 2020. Excluding special items, first quarter 2021 CASM increased 16.7 percent, year-over-year.

And over at Spirit, Frontier's ULCC airbus-flying competitor....

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 74189.html

Total operating revenues for the first quarter 2021 were $461.3 million, a decrease of 40.2 percent

The first quarter of 2021 is tough for everybody, post-COVID

Remember, Q1 2020 was the last "pre-COVID" quarter or at least the last quarter that had some remnants of normal travel. Then the world ended March 2020.

Of course Southwest’s revenues would be down more significantly than Spirit or Frontier by percentage. That’s a given considering the fare premiums they could afford charging over the ULCC’s. Despite having to lower fares to rock bottom prices to compete with the ULCCs during the economic downturn, they still managed a profit for Q1. Most ULCC carriers didn’t post a profit despite their lower costs. Sun Country was the only ULCC to post a profit for Q1, but that was also largely due to their Amazon freight contract (which is really what has helped keep them going during Covid).

airplaneboy wrote:

Sun Country was the only ULCC to post a profit for Q1, but that was also largely due to their Amazon freight contract (which is really what has helped keep them going during Covid).

Allegiant also posted a profit for Q1.

In sum, basically every 121 airline has had a bad Q1 2021.

We also know that business travel, and international travel, has been slow to return, while domestic leisure and "pent up demand travel" is coming back.

Of the legacy Big-3's, Delta is often considered to be the most well run, here are their results:

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 69805.html

Adjusted pre-tax loss of $2.9 billion excludes $1.2 billion of benefit related to the first payroll support program extension (PSP2), which is partially offset among other items by the debt extinguishment charges incurred when prepaying our $1.5 billion slots, gates and routes term loan
Adjusted operating revenue of $3.6 billion declined 65 percent on 55 percent lower sellable capacity (see Note A) versus March quarter 2019

the leisure customer is the bread and butter of the ULCC's.

staying positive for the industry...

all of 2021 will be recovery, for everybody. 2021 is already half-over, basically.

This year everybody will be happy to get off the bottom of the quicksand swamp and will be swimming to shore. 2022 and forward will be a better yardstick on "who is doing better" than the other guy.

my opinion

Does Frontier still plan to open the flight attendant base in Newark? Thanks.

av8tiongeek wrote:

Does Frontier still plan to open the flight attendant base in Newark? Thanks.

They swear yes but still cut back flights every so often. Very frustrating for passengers. Some employees at the airport said the other day that the flights were filling up regularly, even the ones they now suspended.

Interesting. Thank you.

ULCC watchers may be interested in this May 25 investor presentation, attended by Frontier, Spirit, Sun Country, Allegiant:

https://ir.flyfrontier.com/news-and-events/events

Based off this photo from today's F9 crew base announcement, looks like TPA-BOI is coming:

https://twitter.com/FlyFrontier/status/ ... 73/photo/1

BTVB6Flyer wrote:

Based off this photo from today's F9 crew base announcement, looks like TPA-BOI is coming:

https://twitter.com/FlyFrontier/status/ ... 73/photo/1

I’m assume would shall see announcement form the soon if they literally put it on the route map, should be interesting there’s a lot demand to MCO from BOI this route is out of left field for sure

AC4500 wrote:

BTVB6Flyer wrote:

Based off this photo from today's F9 crew base announcement, looks like TPA-BOI is coming:

https://twitter.com/FlyFrontier/status/ ... 73/photo/1

What a strange route. I'd think MCO-BOI would have came first.

That’s what I would have thought to especially with the passengers going MCO-BOI is way more it could also be though they were opening the pilot base in tampa so there could be more routes coming, I would imagine we see a few more routes even it’s not from TPA

TPA said that was a error but I don’t see how that just happen, I think it’s because TPA can’t confirm the route

Wneast wrote:

TPA said that was a error but I don’t see how that just happen, I think it’s because TPA can’t confirm the route

"Just an error"

2 days later: "TPA-BOI confirmed!"

Wneast wrote:

TPA said that was a error but I don’t see how that just happens

A very obvious "error"

WNflyer1523 wrote:

Wneast wrote:

TPA said that was a error but I don’t see how that just happen, I think it’s because TPA can’t confirm the route

"Just an error"

2 days later: "TPA-BOI confirmed!"

That’s what I’m thinking and I just tweeted frontier and the said starting June 9th but then I look and there no non stop could you not book from TPA to BOI before it has to be happening they leaked it

Wneast wrote:

WNflyer1523 wrote:

Wneast wrote:

TPA said that was a error but I don’t see how that just happen, I think it’s because TPA can’t confirm the route

"Just an error"

2 days later: "TPA-BOI confirmed!"

That’s what I’m thinking and I just tweeted frontier and the said starting June 9th but then I look and there no non stop could you not book from TPA to BOI before it has to be happening they leaked it

That is when 'flights' start, but as a overnight connection via DEN

BTVB6Flyer wrote:

Wneast wrote:

WNflyer1523 wrote:

"Just an error"

2 days later: "TPA-BOI confirmed!"

That’s what I’m thinking and I just tweeted frontier and the said starting June 9th but then I look and there no non stop could you not book from TPA to BOI before it has to be happening they leaked it

That is when 'flights' start, but as a overnight connection via DEN

So are you thinking they are going to load in a non stop ?

Lol, yeah they can't even get DEN done right from BOI. Can't imagine them even trying anything else from there.

sprxUSA wrote:

Lol, yeah they can't even get DEN done right from BOI. Can't imagine them even trying anything else from there.

It amazes me that Provo, Utah (via PIE) and Boise, Idaho (presumably) have a non-stop to Tampa, but Portland doesn't?

flyoregon wrote:

sprxUSA wrote:

Lol, yeah they can't even get DEN done right from BOI. Can't imagine them even trying anything else from there.

It amazes me that Provo, Utah (via PIE) and Boise, Idaho (presumably) have a non-stop to Tampa, but Portland doesn't?

These and ONT-ATL are what, at least four hour flights, no? Hey great that they’re in the market offering people what they want. I’d rather shove bamboo under my fingernails than try to endure that amount of time in F9/NK/G4.

luckyone wrote:

flyoregon wrote:

sprxUSA wrote:

Lol, yeah they can't even get DEN done right from BOI. Can't imagine them even trying anything else from there.

It amazes me that Provo, Utah (via PIE) and Boise, Idaho (presumably) have a non-stop to Tampa, but Portland doesn't?

These and ONT-ATL are what, at least four hour flights, no? Hey great that they’re in the market offering people what they want. I’d rather shove bamboo under my fingernails than try to endure that amount of time in F9/NK/G4.

With you. I’m not sitting on a plastic lawn chair for any 4+ hour flight.

flyoregon wrote:

It amazes me that Provo, Utah (via PIE) and Boise, Idaho (presumably) have a non-stop to Tampa, but Portland doesn't?

AS has added PDX-TPA nonstop service, which is already being discussed at viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1461657.

alohashirts wrote:

luckyone wrote:

flyoregon wrote:

It amazes me that Provo, Utah (via PIE) and Boise, Idaho (presumably) have a non-stop to Tampa, but Portland doesn't?

These and ONT-ATL are what, at least four hour flights, no? Hey great that they’re in the market offering people what they want. I’d rather shove bamboo under my fingernails than try to endure that amount of time in F9/NK/G4.

With you. I’m not sitting on a plastic lawn chair for any 4+ hour flight.

And yet these airlines generate cash. As noted, they offer what people want (low price). I don't understand, I used to sit on concrete at football games and survived, the seats cannot be as bad as that.

I suspect the ULCC of no hotels prevent Portland to Tampa. It might run past 11 hours of crew duty too often. Although I would have predicted some of those routes are too far. Those crews will bill the hours.

Lightsaber

lightsaber wrote:

alohashirts wrote:

luckyone wrote:

These and ONT-ATL are what, at least four hour flights, no? Hey great that they’re in the market offering people what they want. I’d rather shove bamboo under my fingernails than try to endure that amount of time in F9/NK/G4.

With you. I’m not sitting on a plastic lawn chair for any 4+ hour flight.

And yet these airlines generate cash. As noted, they offer what people want (low price). I don't understand, I used to sit on concrete at football games and survived, the seats cannot be as bad as that.

I suspect the ULCC of no hotels prevent Portland to Tampa. It might run past 11 hours of crew duty too often. Although I would have predicted some of those routes are too far. Those crews will bill the hours.

Lightsaber

You also probably stood up quite a bit more during a football game.

Lots of talk that EWR build up is coming next year. Anyone have anything on this?

Well, a quick check finds that for 10/14, they show flt 374 BOI-DEN 1412-1603 then flt 290, on 10/15 DEN-TPA 0740-1318. Nice 15+ hour layover, all for only $380 LOL.
Return is better, just under 12 hour layover and $5 less.....

sprxUSA wrote:

Well, a quick check finds that for 10/14, they show flt 374 BOI-DEN 1412-1603 then flt 290, on 10/15 DEN-TPA 0740-1318. Nice 15+ hour layover, all for only $380 LOL.
Return is better, just under 12 hour layover and $5 less.....

I think a non stop is coming they just put it on there route map before they announced it. You wouldn’t have a thing showing that if it wasn’t a non stop from there

Any news on potential new routes from Trenton? A few years ago they were trying routes left and right from TTN.

Pretty much just Florida and the Carolinas these days.

NJFlyer27 wrote:

Any news on potential new routes from Trenton? A few years ago they were trying routes left and right from TTN.

Pretty much just Florida and the Carolinas these days.

The flights that they do have are filling though. Happy they are bringing the second MCO back. What are they down to now, just TTN-ATL/CLT/CHS/MCO/MIA/SRQ/ORD/TPA/PBI?
SAV/MSY/BNA/DTW/DFW(if in range)/JAX/CLE all make sense to bring back or start. I hope they get the ball rolling soon!

The ultra low-cost carrier is adding six routes in early September to Baltimore; Chicago; Detroit; Houston, New Orleans and St. Louis.

Denver-based Frontier also plans in November to add flights to West Palm Beach; Cancun, Mexico; and Montego Bay, Jamaica.

STL-ATL is 3x weekly Starting Sept 9. Didn't check the others.

https://www.ajc.com/news/business/front ... 6LM2DSV5U/

Hmm... IIRC, DL and NK had (even before Covid) pushed WN off DTW-ATL. Good luck, F9.

Nice. Lets see if they can make at least most of these new ATL adds stick, because some of their other cities didn't have as much luck (*cough* Austin *cough*).

I do wonder when we will see them expand at TPA given it’s also a crew base. They have been rather silent.

How long till delta retaliates?

Delta28L wrote:

How long till delta retaliates?

It’s interesting that DL largely ignores NK pricing in ATL and DTW… a few notable exceptions, but I’ll be interested whether they go to bat or just don’t care. The interview with the F9 exec suggests “doubling” their ATL presence in the coming years - honestly, with their current state, I would think that wouldn’t even begin to concern Delta.

There is a possibility that F9 could add ATL-BOS next. It’s just DL and B6 on that route as of now. (I think we need to see a full recovery of business travel in order for that to happen, though.)

I recently noticed that F9 is at 12x weekly on ATL-PHL, with some flights on the 321.

Puts DL, NK, WN, and now F9 on BWI-ATL