Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2021

SQ22 · Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:03 pm

Welcome to the Phoenix Aviation Thread 2021. Please continue to post your news and your discussion here.

Link to previous thread:

Phoenix Aviation Thread - 2020

cathay747 · Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:16 pm

Thank GOD 2020 is over! Happy New Year to all. Let's all pray that 2021 really is better...hard to imagine it couldn't be, but saying "it couldn't get worse" is a dangerous thing to say these days.

MaxTrimm · Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:47 pm

With regards to passenger numbers after Christmas, AZA was one of the best-performing airports in the country over the week of Christmas, with about 72% of last years (2019) passengers over the same week. PHX was at around 55%. Allegiant is clearly doing the best out of the US carriers, with SFB (52%), MYR (73%), and PGD (70%) of last years numbers, and all being pretty good-sized G4 stations. With HOU coming online, Arizona being largely less closed than many other states, and the vaccine getting around, I would not be surprised if AZA reaches 90%+ of 2019 numbers by Spring or Summer.

alasizon · Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:15 am

MaxTrimm wrote:
With regards to passenger numbers after Christmas, AZA was one of the best-performing airports in the country over the week of Christmas, with about 72% of last years (2019) passengers over the same week. PHX was at around 55%. Allegiant is clearly doing the best out of the US carriers, with SFB (52%), MYR (73%), and PGD (70%) of last years numbers, and all being pretty good-sized G4 stations. With HOU coming online, Arizona being largely less closed than many other states, and the vaccine getting around, I would not be surprised if AZA reaches 90%+ of 2019 numbers by Spring or Summer.

I actually think AZA is going to plateau for a while in the 60s-70s. A large portion of G4's travel base isn't flying as much right now and if the pattern continues with the US4 adding more leisure focused flying I think you will see less people choosing packages for vacation instead choosing to go with a la carte offerings for each piece.

910A · Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:36 pm

The Seahawks just arrived on a Delta a339. Think out loud, is this the first time that an 339 has come to PHX?

MaxTrimm · Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:20 am

910A wrote:
The Seahawks just arrived on a Delta a339. Think out loud, is this the first time that an 339 has come to PHX?

I believe the Hawks rode the A339 when they came earlier this season

MO11 · Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:35 am

MaxTrimm wrote:
910A wrote:
The Seahawks just arrived on a Delta a339. Think out loud, is this the first time that an 339 has come to PHX?

I believe the Hawks rode the A339 when they came earlier this season

....with the same airplane.

airzona11 · Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:48 am

[twoid][/twoid]

MO11 wrote:
MaxTrimm wrote:
910A wrote:
The Seahawks just arrived on a Delta a339. Think out loud, is this the first time that an 339 has come to PHX?

I believe the Hawks rode the A339 when they came earlier this season

....with the same airplane.

That was the A359

MaxTrimm · Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:59 am

airzona11 wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
MO11 wrote:
MaxTrimm wrote:
I believe the Hawks rode the A339 when they came earlier this season

....with the same airplane.

That was the A359

Nope. N404DX did SEA-PHX carrying the Seahawks on 10/24.

treebeard787 · Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:39 pm

910A wrote:
The Seahawks just arrived on a Delta a339. Think out loud, is this the first time that an 339 has come to PHX?

This is the second time an 339 has visited PHX, both were Seahawks charters.

JustWingIt · Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:10 am

airzona11 wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
MO11 wrote:
MaxTrimm wrote:
I believe the Hawks rode the A339 when they came earlier this season

....with the same airplane.

That was the A359

The A359 was the Bills from BUF, the Hawks rode the 339, and it was N404DX both times.

On a different note, anyone know why DL is sending a total of 10 763s throughout the course of the day tomorrow from ATL, MSP, and DTW? Is it pax numbers being suddenly high on those routes or is it just a way to utilize them while TATL traffic is way down?

Delta350 · Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:31 am

JustWingIt wrote:
airzona11 wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
MO11 wrote:

....with the same airplane.

That was the A359

The A359 was the Bills from BUF, the Hawks rode the 339, and it was N404DX both times.

On a different note, anyone know why DL is sending a total of 10 763s throughout the course of the day tomorrow from ATL, MSP, and DTW? Is it pax numbers being suddenly high on those routes or is it just a way to utilize them while TATL traffic is way down?

I think it’s for the blocked middle seat.

JustWingIt · Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:50 pm

Delta350 wrote:
JustWingIt wrote:
The A359 was the Bills from BUF, the Hawks rode the 339, and it was N404DX both times.

On a different note, anyone know why DL is sending a total of 10 763s throughout the course of the day tomorrow from ATL, MSP, and DTW? Is it pax numbers being suddenly high on those routes or is it just a way to utilize them while TATL traffic is way down?

I think it’s for the blocked middle seat.

That makes sense. I did not think about that. Thanks

Delta350 · Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:31 pm

JustWingIt wrote:
Delta350 wrote:
JustWingIt wrote:
The A359 was the Bills from BUF, the Hawks rode the 339, and it was N404DX both times.

On a different note, anyone know why DL is sending a total of 10 763s throughout the course of the day tomorrow from ATL, MSP, and DTW? Is it pax numbers being suddenly high on those routes or is it just a way to utilize them while TATL traffic is way down?

I think it’s for the blocked middle seat.

That makes sense. I did not think about that. Thanks

No problem

skyharborshome · Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:07 am

Today at A15 around 1 pm, fire trucks were lined up on one side and police cars on the other. My assumption was fallen soldier or a first responder casket arriving. Was a somber sight.

skyharborshome · Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:16 am

This week I took the AA NS PHX-BNA and back, As a DL platinum, I could not justify connecting in ATL while paying more. The new 738 interior was nicer that I expected. Keep in mind I have not flown AA much at all. I was in first on the return and I think the seats were even more comfortable than DL. If AA keeps this route I may have to reconsider my allegiance. We have been begging for more direct options and this one seems to work well. Great job AA.

910A · Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:49 am

skyharborshome wrote:
Today at A15 around 1 pm, fire trucks were lined up on one side and police cars on the other. My assumption was fallen soldier or a first responder casket arriving. Was a somber sight.

Could it have been this? A sailor that died at Pearl Harbor on 12-7-41 returning home. https://www.abc15.com/news/region-phoen ... ears-later

PhilMcCrackin · Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:02 pm

Just had a 5 ship of Apaches fly over, looked liked they were headed to Gateway. I wonder if we're going to be receiving a visit from the AN124, but I don't see it on the tracker.

JoseSalazar · Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:09 pm

PhilMcCrackin wrote:
Just had a 5 ship of Apaches fly over, looked liked they were headed to Gateway. I wonder if we're going to be receiving a visit from the AN124, but I don't see it on the tracker.

They are “new” E models flying to their new home in the PNW.

F9LASDEN · Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:25 am

F9 is resuming PHX-MCO, 1x daily beginning on 3/11/21. If I’m not mistaking, they last flew PHX-MCO during the winter of 2017-2018.

https://news.flyfrontier.com/frontier-a ... d-phoenix/

PhilMcCrackin · Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:40 pm

KIWA got an AN124 full of F16s from Israel a couple days ago. Looks like they'll be permanent residents of KIWA being owned by Top Aces. A few of them have some impressive pedigrees being apart of the reactor raid and having shot down enemy fighters.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/3 ... tor-strike

Ishrion · Sun Jan 31, 2021 4:06 am

Take this with a massive grain of salt.

According to this person, Allegiant is planning PHX flights, operating out of Terminal 3: https://youtu.be/eurfJyQjuC4

I contacted him through another forum, and he said he knows people who work there. I'm unsure how valid that is.

Has anyone heard anything else on this?

alasizon · Sun Jan 31, 2021 6:05 am

Ishrion wrote:
Take this with a massive grain of salt.

According to this person, Allegiant is planning PHX flights, operating out of Terminal 3: https://youtu.be/eurfJyQjuC4

I contacted him through another forum, and he said he knows people who work there. I'm unsure how valid that is.

Has anyone heard anything else on this?

There was a G4 bird here about two weeks ago but I assumed really nothing of it. Don't really see how it would work gating wise - utilization is down but not enough to make it worth it for G4 to run a split op (in my opinion).

cm642 · Sun Jan 31, 2021 6:22 am

alasizon wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Take this with a massive grain of salt.

According to this person, Allegiant is planning PHX flights, operating out of Terminal 3: https://youtu.be/eurfJyQjuC4

I contacted him through another forum, and he said he knows people who work there. I'm unsure how valid that is.

Has anyone heard anything else on this?

There was a G4 bird here about two weeks ago but I assumed really nothing of it. Don't really see how it would work gating wise - utilization is down but not enough to make it worth it for G4 to run a split op (in my opinion).

I would also expect competition from AA, I know they serve a lot of smaller destinations that American Eagle also serves albeit not from PHX but wouldn't be surprised to see AA compete using American Eagle.

joeblow10 · Sun Jan 31, 2021 6:23 am

I don’t really see what the motivation would be for G4 to operate at PHX. Yes IWA is pretty far east but are customers from the likes of FWA or FSD really concerned about that when they have a nonstop?

Even if they’re just looking at big markets like LAS, SAN, etc, I would have to assume the yields are garbage in comparison to what they (could) get in Mesa with all the competition over there.

alasizon · Sun Jan 31, 2021 8:32 am

joeblow10 wrote:
I don’t really see what the motivation would be for G4 to operate at PHX. Yes IWA is pretty far east but are customers from the likes of FWA or FSD really concerned about that when they have a nonstop?

Even if they’re just looking at big markets like LAS, SAN, etc, I would have to assume the yields are garbage in comparison to what they (could) get in Mesa with all the competition over there.

FSD is probably a bad example as AA runs 2 CR9s per day and a good 45% of the seats are locals happy to come to PHX. Most of the G4 markets from IWA are already served by AA at PHX and it seems like G4 coming to PHX would poke the bear (AA) to add those that aren't like MLI, PIA, ATW, etc.

Leisure demand to the midwest is mostly concentrated in the NW (Surprise/Sun City/Peoria), South Central (South Scottsdale, Tempe and Laveen) and SE (East Mesa, San Tan Valley, and Gilbert) sections of the valley so if G4 is making a play for the NW traffic I could see it but that just doesn't seem to be enough to justify the split ops. High frequency, low yield markets make even less sense given the WN presence.

cathay747 · Mon Feb 01, 2021 3:13 pm

I would have to agree about the illogic of G4 splitting ops and launching at PHX. I see the distance to/from IWA as irrelevant, no matter where in the Valley people may live...look at the distance that large numbers of pax would drive (and in some cases may still do) to fly WN...for example BWI, before WN started ops at IAD and then DCA...people would drive from all over Northern VA as an example to get WN's lower fares at BWI, and we're talking similar if not further distances to drive than here in the Valley, with much worse traffic on inferior freeways/highways w/lower speed limits equating into much longer drive times. I used to live in NoVA outside DC, I know from whence I speak.

BA744PHX · Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:22 pm

Happy Valentine's Day to everyone, AA's recent update last night below, plus new service to IDA, BZN & ACV starting June 3rd

BNA, MSN, MSY & TUL have been extended from seasonal to year around service
LTO will have continued service until mid August, previously no April or May flights
LAP will run until September, however no April or May flights
CID will run until April 1st, then resume June 3rd with flights until end of schedule (assuming year around service from June 3rd)
HNL & OGG both have a 2nd daily frequency until August 17th

ericm2031 · Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:45 pm

Also starting to see more Envoy E175s rotating through PHX on the April schedule.

alasizon · Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:07 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
Happy Valentine's Day to everyone, AA's recent update last night below, plus new service to IDA, BZN & ACV starting June 3rd

BNA, MSN, MSY & TUL have been extended from seasonal to year around service
LTO will have continued service until mid August, previously no April or May flights
LAP will run until September, however no April or May flights
CID will run until April 1st, then resume June 3rd with flights until end of schedule (assuming year around service from June 3rd)
HNL & OGG both have a 2nd daily frequency until August 17th

CID may end up running like MTJ used to, Apr/May and Aug2H/Sept shoulder seasons off but runs the other 9.5 months of the year. In non-COVID times it likely would have stayed daily year round based on higher overall demand.

I personally don't see LAP sticking around through the summer if demand doesn't improve, average LF on the flights isn't great.

LIT was previously announced as going year-round too but was cut for April and doesn't appear to resume at this point.

ericm2031 wrote:
Also starting to see more Envoy E175s rotating through PHX on the April schedule.

9 per day in April, don't see it going much above 12 without better crew and MX supportability. It does make me wonder where the OO E175 fleet is going to be based out of.

mbird139 · Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:40 pm

Checked FR 24 this morning and saw a Silkway IL-76 departing PHX to ORD. ..arrived last night from Montreal. Thought for sure someone would have had a photo on this thread lol

ericm2031 · Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:02 pm

alasizon wrote:
ericm2031 wrote:
Also starting to see more Envoy E175s rotating through PHX on the April schedule.

9 per day in April, don't see it going much above 12 without better crew and MX supportability. It does make me wonder where the OO E175 fleet is going to be based out of.

I'd assume LAX to replace to ex-CP flying, once they decide to bring back the majority of the Eagle flying there.

BA744PHX · Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:05 pm

alasizon wrote:
CID may end up running like MTJ used to, Apr/May and Aug2H/Sept shoulder seasons off but runs the other 9.5 months of the year. In non-COVID times it likely would have stayed daily year round based on higher overall demand.

I personally don't see LAP sticking around through the summer if demand doesn't improve, average LF on the flights isn't great.

LIT was previously announced as going year-round too but was cut for April and doesn't appear to resume at this point.

ericm2031 wrote:
Also starting to see more Envoy E175s rotating through PHX on the April schedule.

9 per day in April, don't see it going much above 12 without better crew and MX supportability. It does make me wonder where the OO E175 fleet is going to be based out of.

I dont recall LIT having any type of announcement, from what I remember when it was first loaded was only a 6 week period that appeared in GDS November 1st for December 16th launch, it keeps getting extended month by month.

alasizon · Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:26 pm

ericm2031 wrote:
alasizon wrote:
ericm2031 wrote:
Also starting to see more Envoy E175s rotating through PHX on the April schedule.

9 per day in April, don't see it going much above 12 without better crew and MX supportability. It does make me wonder where the OO E175 fleet is going to be based out of.

I'd assume LAX to replace to ex-CP flying, once they decide to bring back the majority of the Eagle flying there.

LAX was originally supposed to go to MQ but now most of the LAX flying has been permanently cut so I don't see that coming back much to where it needs a 20 plane base and nothing that actually requires a base. The OO birds were originally slated for DFW/ORD but now I'm thinking that given the way the network has shaped up basing them in PHX with flows over into LAX (just like the CR7 fleet) makes more sense as it allows MQ to focus on DFW and not have to spend the cost of opening another base and it allows the existing PHX flying to be better supported.

BA744PHX wrote:
alasizon wrote:
LIT was previously announced as going year-round too but was cut for April and doesn't appear to resume at this point.

I dont recall LIT having any type of announcement, from what I remember when it was first loaded was only a 6 week period that appeared in GDS November 1st for December 16th launch, it keeps getting extended month by month.

There was no announcement but about a month ago it was loaded year round, as I recall it even made the OAG thread.

I think it is an aircraft availability issue as the existing timings don't have an available aircraft in LIT.

jmc1975 · Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:26 pm

At this rate, I wouldn’t be surprised to eventually see a PHX-XNA route using an Envoy E175.

BA744PHX · Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:28 am

alasizon wrote:
ericm2031 wrote:
alasizon wrote:

9 per day in April, don't see it going much above 12 without better crew and MX supportability. It does make me wonder where the OO E175 fleet is going to be based out of.

I'd assume LAX to replace to ex-CP flying, once they decide to bring back the majority of the Eagle flying there.

LAX was originally supposed to go to MQ but now most of the LAX flying has been permanently cut so I don't see that coming back much to where it needs a 20 plane base and nothing that actually requires a base. The OO birds were originally slated for DFW/ORD but now I'm thinking that given the way the network has shaped up basing them in PHX with flows over into LAX (just like the CR7 fleet) makes more sense as it allows MQ to focus on DFW and not have to spend the cost of opening another base and it allows the existing PHX flying to be better supported.

BA744PHX wrote:
alasizon wrote:
LIT was previously announced as going year-round too but was cut for April and doesn't appear to resume at this point.

I dont recall LIT having any type of announcement, from what I remember when it was first loaded was only a 6 week period that appeared in GDS November 1st for December 16th launch, it keeps getting extended month by month.

There was no announcement but about a month ago it was loaded year round, as I recall it even made the OAG thread.

I think it is an aircraft availability issue as the existing timings don't have an available aircraft in LIT.

I dont recall seeing LIT being extended, its possible.

BA744PHX · Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:36 am

jmc1975 wrote:
At this rate, I wouldn’t be surprised to eventually see a PHX-XNA route using an Envoy E175.

That would be interesting, however COS, RAP, ICT, MSO, FCA, SDF & PIA may come first.

jmc1975 · Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:17 am

BA744PHX wrote:
jmc1975 wrote:
At this rate, I wouldn’t be surprised to eventually see a PHX-XNA route using an Envoy E175.

That would be interesting, however COS, RAP, ICT, MSO, FCA, SDF & PIA may come first.

I didn’t mention COS, RAP & ICT because they all have been adds the past couple years, but I fully agree they would be resumed first. Along with the others you mentioned, I could also see the likes of MFE & SGF. I am really surprised that AMA didn’t work...was it the timing?

Also, just as IDA was added to the network, I could see CPR being added in similar fashion with daily CR7s to PHX and DFW. I could also see PSC, but perhaps with an E175 from DFW instead of a CR7.

alasizon · Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:28 am

jmc1975 wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
jmc1975 wrote:
At this rate, I wouldn’t be surprised to eventually see a PHX-XNA route using an Envoy E175.

That would be interesting, however COS, RAP, ICT, MSO, FCA, SDF & PIA may come first.

I didn’t mention COS, RAP & ICT because they all have been adds the past couple years, but I fully agree they would be resumed first. Along with the others you mentioned, I could also see the likes of MFE & SGF. I am really surprised that AMA didn’t work...was it the timing?

Also, just as IDA was added to the network, I could see CPR being added in similar fashion with daily CR7s to PHX and DFW. I could also see PSC, but perhaps with an E175 from DFW instead of a CR7.

AMA was tried both as a day-turn and as a RON and both ways LFs were abysmal (there were days with less than 5 pax) - for whatever reason the westbound traffic just wasn't choosing AA through PHX.

1337Delta764 · Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:57 am

I never mentioned this, but since November, Amazon has had a second Sortation Center here in the Phoenix area, PHXZ in Tolleson, AZ. I thought it might have been seasonal for the holidays, but it is now February and it is still in operation. Most Amazon Logistics ground shipments now go through this facility. Amazon Air continues to use AZA5 in Phoenix.

jmc1975 · Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:17 pm

Are there any updated statuses or photos of the work being done at:

-T4 S1 concourse
-Skytrain extension
-Apron area of the former T2
-Roadways/parking areas

chrisair · Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:41 pm

jmc1975 wrote:
Are there any updated statuses or photos of the work being done at:

-T4 S1 concourse
-Skytrain extension
-Apron area of the former T2
-Roadways/parking areas

Picked up a family member on Friday night. First time on airport property since October and was amazed at how busy the roadway was. Completely stopped outside T3 and the rental car shuttle line probably had 200+ people in it. I was surprised to see the front part of T2 still standing. I thought that was all gone in 2020.

What are they doing to the bridge that goes to the A gates? Looks like it’s all torn apart or something.

First flight is booked in a few weeks. Looking forward to going inside the terminal for the first time since March 3, 2020!

alasizon · Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:01 pm

chrisair wrote:
jmc1975 wrote:
Are there any updated statuses or photos of the work being done at:

-T4 S1 concourse
-Skytrain extension
-Apron area of the former T2
-Roadways/parking areas

Picked up a family member on Friday night. First time on airport property since October and was amazed at how busy the roadway was. Completely stopped outside T3 and the rental car shuttle line probably had 200+ people in it. I was surprised to see the front part of T2 still standing. I thought that was all gone in 2020.

What are they doing to the bridge that goes to the A gates? Looks like it’s all torn apart or something.

First flight is booked in a few weeks. Looking forward to going inside the terminal for the first time since March 3, 2020!

They are building the bridge between D and A - it didn't exist previously. The chaos on Thur/Fri nights is par for the course now - between lowered shuttle bus capacity from COVID and WN/DL/AA all dumping capacity in around 19:00-20:30 - its a mess each week. This week was the best it has been since they almost doubled the rental car shuttle bus capacity to T4 and the SkyTrain connection to East Economy has reopened (there was emergency repair work going on next to C12)

The front part of T2 is still standing since there is ongoing asbestos remediation in the walls and basement - not sure what their time frame is for completion.

S1 should have the rest of the concourse level glass going up in the next couple weeks.

BA744PHX · Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:00 pm

Spirit will run DTW-PHX for limited time from March 17 - 31 only

alasizon · Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:23 am

BA744PHX wrote:
Spirit will run DTW-PHX for limited time from March 17 - 31 only

That seems like an awfully short period to evaluate a route on.

AntonioMartin · Fri Feb 26, 2021 2:00 am

When's ANA and Emirates coming???

jmc1975 · Fri Feb 26, 2021 7:36 am

AntonioMartin wrote:
When's ANA and Emirates coming???

Being a OneWorld hub, it would more likely be JAL & Qatar.

AntonioMartin · Sat Feb 27, 2021 12:25 am

jmc1975 wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
When's ANA and Emirates coming???

Being a OneWorld hub, it would more likely be JAL & Qatar.

I can dream...

BA744PHX · Sun Mar 14, 2021 2:51 pm

AA PHX-RAP resumes June 3rd for summer only at the moment, this will shut me up for while about this route LOL, still nothing on AA PHX-COS.

NK PHX-DTW was extended until May 3rd, previously only loaded for 2 weeks in March

seabiscuit · Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:33 pm

AntonioMartin wrote:
jmc1975 wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
When's ANA and Emirates coming???

Being a OneWorld hub, it would more likely be JAL & Qatar.

I can dream...

it will happen some day.

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