I don’t think it’s an active gate, just a parking spot.

Isn’t DFW technically all non-exclusive? (i.e. if there is an open gate and AA needs to be accommodated they will)

If I'm not mistaken they've flown out of E for sometime, as US Airways used to fly out of it and then flew into it during the merger/post-merger. Not sure if at some point they consolidated to another terminal.

CarlosSi wrote:

If I'm not mistaken they've flown out of E for sometime, as US Airways used to fly out of it and then flew into it during the merger/post-merger. Not sure if at some point they consolidated to another terminal.

I'm just talking about mainline. Eagle has been in E since the merger I believe.

LongLayover wrote:

CarlosSi wrote:

If I'm not mistaken they've flown out of E for sometime, as US Airways used to fly out of it and then flew into it during the merger/post-merger. Not sure if at some point they consolidated to another terminal.

I'm just talking about mainline. Eagle has been in E since the merger I believe.

Mainline has operated flights out of E after the merger as well, more prominent during peak r\times prior to COVID

The issue is that AA is still operating fewer banks than typical at DFW but the remaining banks are bigger to maximize connectivity. This actually makes AA need more gates not fewer so they will take any common-use gate they can get their hands on during peak times. It's not that big of a deal since AA already operates out of every terminal.

Hello. I was hoping someone could answer a question for me.

I know that when DFW Airport first opened, terminals 2E, 3E and 3E (Now A, C and E) were not the entire half-circles that they are today. I believe the Braniff terminal, 2W (now B) was the only terminal that opened as a full half-circle building.

I have tried to determine when those terminals were extended to their current length but have been unable to do. Does anyone on here know when this happened?

departedflights wrote:

I know that when DFW Airport first opened, terminals 2E, 3E and 3E (Now A, C and E) were not the entire half-circles that they are today. I believe the Braniff terminal, 2W (now B) was the only terminal that opened as a full half-circle building.

Interesting question. What is the date and source for your diagram? Ah, it all was so much simpler then. I made three trips to DFW the Sunday it opened in 1974 to let off and pick up a FA friend and remember how easy it was to get in and out of. I've made regular trips since but don't remember when the extensions were done.

hivue wrote:

What is the date and source for your diagram?

It is from a May 1975 Metroflight Airlines timetable.

I don't know the answer - but if anyone is curious about Davis Airlines like I was after seeing the map in the OP -- I found some great info and pics in the link below.

https://utd-ir.tdl.org/handle/10735.1/4987

If this is "the" departedflights owner (of departedflights.com) then I think they'll be able to provide some great resources to verify.

All I know is that work on the south end of 2E was pretty well underway in Summer, 1982. You have one of my original slides of an AA 727-123 (dated July '82) that shows 2E in the background.

I commuted to DFW for 4 1/2 years starting in January 1989. I think it was somewhere shortly after that for the extension of the high numbered gates in 3E, now C. By then, 2E and 3E were connected, with gates all the way to high 2E. And I think the DL satellite at 4E was standing.
2E's parking garage hadn't been built yet when I started.
I did a walking self-tour of 2W early on, finding the gate lounges were not connected, so you had to keep going out and entering the next section through Security again. That worked only with the original curbside-to-gate design, and not working once connecting hubs and partnerships grew. The B extension(s) were much later.

Hey Greg. The piecemeal expansion of the original four DFW terminals is not very well documented, but here's how I remember it playing out:

Terminal 2W
- opened fully built out with the airport in 1974 and basically didn't change for almost 25 years
- American took over 2W-A in 1998, building an infield parking structure there as well as the four-gate 'stinger' that is now the connector between Terminal B and D. Northwest and Continental moved into 4E with Delta, who was starting to pull down the hub.
- United moved from 2W-A to 2W-C; the "gap" between 2W-B and C was filled in with a new baggage claim area for United that opened in 1998

Terminal 2E
- 2E-A and 2E-B opened with the airport in 1974, but each was only half-built, with just two landside entries each
- I believe 2E-C opened in late 1982 or very early 1983; the connector building opened a bit later (buses connected the secure areas for a short while after opening.) 2E-B was doubled in size at the same time.
- In 1990-91, once the last of the "cats and dogs" moved over to 2W, American did a big renovation on 2E. The landside "gaps" between 2E-A, B and C were filled in to create one continuous terminal frontage (the gap buildings had new baggage claim areas) and infield parking structures opened at 2E-A and 2E-B. This is also when the upper-level sterile corridor and international arrivals facility at 2E was built, as well as the airside TRAAM system.

Terminal 3E
- 3E-A and 3E-B opened with the airport in 1974
- the airside concourse was doubled in width in 1984-85 to add departure lounges at each gate, replacing the two central lounges from the original design
- 3E-C opened in 1988; it was just a small module with a single landside entrance, built behind the original airside concourse. It also included an infield parking structure.
- The "trailer park" extension off of 3E-C opened in 1990; it had no landside facilities, only airside
- The TRAAM stations opened in 1991 in the "gaps" between 3E-A/B and 3E-B/C
- Infield parking garages opened at 3E-A in 1993 and 3E-B in 1995.

Terminal 4E
- 4E-A and 4E-B opened with the airport in 1974
- 4E-C (which had an international arrivals facility) and its infield parking structure opened in 1987-88, along with the satellite building (there were plans for a matching satellite between 4E-A and B, but this was never built)
- two more gates were added to 4E-C in 1994
- infield parking structures opened at 4E-A in 1995 and 4E-B in 1996

jsnww81 wrote:

The piecemeal expansion of the original four DFW terminals is not very well documented, but here's how I remember it playing out:

jsnww81, Thank you! That is exactly the information I was looking for!

Fascinating seeing that old terminal map with Braniff "owning" 2W and AA's footprint being sharing 3E with EA! Wow, how time have changed.

But I have a question that's never hit me till just now...why were the terminals numbered starting with 2 and not 1???

cathay747 wrote:

But I have a question that's never hit me till just now...why were the terminals numbered starting with 2 and not 1???

So they wouldn’t have to change the numbering when/if the proposed future 1E/W was built around/across from the north remote parking in the old terminal map.

When they renamed everything to the letters they effectively admitted it is unlikely they would ever build those out though.

The original plan was that the first pair of terminals was actually going to be the 'Terminal 0' pair, extending all the way down to 6E (only the east side, no complimentary west side terminal,) giving 13 terminals in total.

Not sure why they would have started with 0, unless the terminal 0 pair was scrapped before the terminals were finally numbered.

With the Small Community Air Service Development Program, DFW Airport could soon see a handful of new destinations. These airports are requesting AA service to DFW:

- Appleton (ATW)
- Charleston, WV (CRW) (Alternate request)
- Green Bay (GRB)
- Great Falls (GTF)
- Jacksonville, NC (OAJ)
- Medford (MFR)
- Redmond (RDM)
- Toledo (TOL)
- Topeka (FOE)



Generated with GCMap: http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=dfw-rdm/oa ... tw/crw/mfr

GSP psgr wrote:

Basic question, but is doing TRIP to C really all that much cheaper than just building a Terminal F? Especially since the original DFW layout has basically been hacked into being hubbable and a brand new terminal would likely bring efficiency gains.

It is, but it doesn't address the long term deficiency of the terminals at DFW compared to its peers (ATL, DEN and ORD when they rebuild T2). Terminal F ought to revive the 1989 proposal to build a single linear concourse on the west side and gradually replace the semicircular terminals with it as funding allows.

GRB and TOL were once served by AAEagle
To DFW in the mid to late 00’s with E145s. (2005/2006) if I recall. Would be interesting to see if they get added back. With the size of the hub it is today and more CR7/CR9/E70 in the fleet I’m sure they would be successful routes. RST was also flown during that time.

Runway765 wrote:

GSP psgr wrote:

Basic question, but is doing TRIP to C really all that much cheaper than just building a Terminal F? Especially since the original DFW layout has basically been hacked into being hubbable and a brand new terminal would likely bring efficiency gains.

It is, but it doesn't address the long term deficiency of the terminals at DFW compared to its peers (ATL, DEN and ORD when they rebuild T2). Terminal F ought to revive the 1989 proposal to build a single linear concourse on the west side and gradually replace the semicircular terminals with it as funding allows.

How much the deficiencies of the DFW terminal design matters is debatable. Yes, AA has indicated that it prefers a new design because the existing one impedes efficient operations, but that has not prevented DFW from being a mega connecting hub for AA. DIA’s design is easier for passengers, and is also better geographically for a lot of domestic connections. None of this has impeded AA from growing at DFW.

I don’t see ATL has an apt comparison to DFW due to geographic differences. ORD is another matter, but that’s arguably a case of AA competing against itself since it sends a lot of connecting traffic through DFW that time wise might be better to go through ORD. In addition to the T2 rebuild, the ORD21 plan also calls for T1 and 3 to be renovated. But their existing layouts will remain as is for probably another 15 to 20 years. I see passenger integration issues between new T2 and the other main terminals at least based on the limited designs released to the public to date. I think this will be worse for AA’s operations in T3, but still problematical for UA particularly in the A concourse.

So the conclusion of the DFW management to stick with the basic layout approach and keep costs under control makes a lot of sense to me.

AAplat4life wrote:

Runway765 wrote:

GSP psgr wrote:

Basic question, but is doing TRIP to C really all that much cheaper than just building a Terminal F? Especially since the original DFW layout has basically been hacked into being hubbable and a brand new terminal would likely bring efficiency gains.

It is, but it doesn't address the long term deficiency of the terminals at DFW compared to its peers (ATL, DEN and ORD when they rebuild T2). Terminal F ought to revive the 1989 proposal to build a single linear concourse on the west side and gradually replace the semicircular terminals with it as funding allows.

How much the deficiencies of the DFW terminal design matters is debatable. Yes, AA has indicated that it prefers a new design because the existing one impedes efficient operations, but that has not prevented DFW from being a mega connecting hub for AA. DIA’s design is easier for passengers, and is also better geographically for a lot of domestic connections. None of this has impeded AA from growing at DFW.

I don’t see ATL has an apt comparison to DFW due to geographic differences. ORD is another matter, but that’s arguably a case of AA competing against itself since it sends a lot of connecting traffic through DFW that time wise might be better to go through ORD. In addition to the T2 rebuild, the ORD21 plan also calls for T1 and 3 to be renovated. But their existing layouts will remain as is for probably another 15 to 20 years. I see passenger integration issues between new T2 and the other main terminals at least based on the limited designs released to the public to date. I think this will be worse for AA’s operations in T3, but still problematical for UA particularly in the A concourse.

So the conclusion of the DFW management to stick with the basic layout approach and keep costs under control makes a lot of sense to me.

Now if they really want to think about changing the layout, I'd do it LAX-ish, and in long-term phases. Terminal F could have a U-shape, terminal C would be demolished (being from the era "when dinosaurs existed") and rebuilt U-shaped as well. Or T-shaped so they could all be connected easier at the joints between terminals.

It's current design really hasn't brought it down very much and it would be costly to rebuild all of DFW.

It seems that Terminal F, when built, will most likely follow the standard 'horseshoe' layout. If you look at the extension at the low end of Terminal D that is being built now, that will certainly link to a newly built F. The area where F would go, currently a parking lot, has already been sort of left alone as that footprint is where it will be built. Even the Skylink rails are built for the horseshoe design, although it would be easy enough in the overall scheme of things to redo the tracks. I just don't see the way DFW is set up that F would be vastly different from the other 5. Sure, a long DTW or even several ATL style terminals might be better, but its too late now.

Related - let's finally get Terminal C renovated. I did notice the 'temporary' extension gates from the late 80s have been razed. That's a start.

As many times I have been to the "temporary" gates, never noticed any difference between it and the rest of C.(3E).

I am not sure if this has already been discussed in the other threads, but just posting it here.

I just noticed yesterday, the Qatar is operating twice daily to DFW. Its interesting to see that the new service arrives at DFW in the morning and wont depart until late evening.

Trying to understand, what markets it intend to serve with these time slots?

audian wrote:

I am not sure if this has already been discussed in the other threads, but just posting it here.

I just noticed yesterday, the Qatar is operating twice daily to DFW. Its interesting to see that the new service arrives at DFW in the morning and wont depart until late evening.

Trying to understand, what markets it intend to serve with these time slots?

I'm not sure what market it's trying to serve, but from my recollection, this 2nd service is 3 times a week (10 weekly).

I just booked QR yesterday for next February: DFW-DOH-CPT.

gdg9 wrote:

It seems that Terminal F, when built, will most likely follow the standard 'horseshoe' layout. If you look at the extension at the low end of Terminal D that is being built now, that will certainly link to a newly built F. The area where F would go, currently a parking lot, has already been sort of left alone as that footprint is where it will be built. Even the Skylink rails are built for the horseshoe design, although it would be easy enough in the overall scheme of things to redo the tracks. I just don't see the way DFW is set up that F would be vastly different from the other 5. Sure, a long DTW or even several ATL style terminals might be better, but its too late now.

Related - let's finally get Terminal C renovated. I did notice the 'temporary' extension gates from the late 80s have been razed. That's a start.

An ATL layout couldn't be done, but a long DTW style in the way they were proposing in 1989 could theoretically still be done. Nonetheless, you are correct that it's most likely too late now.

Terminal C badly needs to be renovated. That needs to be the priority even before F.

Runway765 wrote:

gdg9 wrote:

Terminal C badly needs to be renovated. That needs to be the priority even before F.

Truer words have rarely been spoken.

TXRoadMan wrote:

I still can't find any additional meaningful information, but I did notice a reference somewhere to this new building holding 5 gates, instead of the current 4. Occam's Razor would suggest that somebody just forgot that there is no C38, and just did the math between C35-39. On the other hand, this would be a good opportunity to move the gatehouse of C33 from the Skylink bump-out to the new building. That corner can get hectic in busy times.

Quoting myself from the 2020 version of this thread...

I was right. They are going to move C33 out of the corner of the Skylink bump-out and down the corridor a bit into the new-High-C building. That should help the congestion in that area.

I found that information in the Environmental Assessment of the new High-C gates. I didn't find really anything else intriguing about the new building, other than what we all should have assumed: that it certainly appears to be a proper end of the terminal, some ~33 years after the modular trailers went in. (Though the new building is described as "prefabricated modular," so perhaps not a perfectly proper end of the terminal.)

What *is* intriguing, however, is that the document contains a fairly comprehensive history of the entire C building, with a great deal of pictures and timelines of additions. Check it out here: (The history starts at page 85.) https://downloads.ctfassets.net/m2p70vm ... ressed.pdf

TXRoadMan wrote:

TXRoadMan wrote:

I still can't find any additional meaningful information, but I did notice a reference somewhere to this new building holding 5 gates, instead of the current 4. Occam's Razor would suggest that somebody just forgot that there is no C38, and just did the math between C35-39. On the other hand, this would be a good opportunity to move the gatehouse of C33 from the Skylink bump-out to the new building. That corner can get hectic in busy times.

Quoting myself from the 2020 version of this thread...

I was right. They are going to move C33 out of the corner of the Skylink bump-out and down the corridor a bit into the new-High-C building. That should help the congestion in that area.

I found that information in the Environmental Assessment of the new High-C gates. I didn't find really anything else intriguing about the new building, other than what we all should have assumed: that it certainly appears to be a proper end of the terminal, some ~33 years after the modular trailers went in.

What *is* intriguing, however, is that the document contains a fairly comprehensive history of the entire C building, with a great deal of pictures and timelines of additions. Check it out here: (The history starts at page 85.) https://downloads.ctfassets.net/m2p70vm ... ressed.pdf

Will the reconstruction of the high C gates coincide with the terminal renovation?

Runway765 wrote:

Will the reconstruction of the high C gates coincide with the terminal renovation?

Not exactly. They are separate projects. The High-C construction should be done by the end of next year (2022.) The TRIP of the rest of C* won't start until October 2021 and runs through November 2026.

*Something else that I thought was interesting I forgot to mention earlier: The South Skylink bumpout near High-C won't be TRIP'd. The TRIP project stops at C26.

One other thing... There is indeed asbestos in C. Was it more or less than other terminals, or even a factor in the delay? I don't know. But there is some there.

Some updates for DFW:

- Frontier is adding DFW-ATL/ORD/BNA/ONT/SLC

- Aeromexico resumes MEX-DFW in July with a daily E190

- Sunclass Airlines will be operating three A330 charters from Europe to DFW in April/May: https://twitter.com/theaeronetwork/stat ... 2804153345

- American Airlines is adding DFW to Bangor, Maine and Burlington, Vermont. DFW now has service to 46 states with the addition of Vermont. Currently missing Rhode Island, Delaware, West Virginia, and New Hampshire.

DFW to Providence and Charleston could cover Rhode Island and West Virginia respectively. DFW to Wilmington in Delaware and Manchester in New Hampshire seem doubtful.

And 36L/18R reopened today.

Looks like an Aer Lingus Airbus 330-300 will pay you a visit next Saturday 17th.
Arriving around 8pm and staying till Sunday afternoon.
Probably a cargo charter so parking at a cargo ramp for the stay.

Eitilt wrote:

Looks like an Aer Lingus Airbus 330-300 will pay you a visit next Saturday 17th.
Arriving around 8pm and staying till Sunday afternoon.
Probably a cargo charter so parking at a cargo ramp for the stay.

Thanks for the info.
Will probably have to go see this rare event.
Curious if anyone here knows if this is the first time EI metal has ever visited DFW?
My only recollection of EI metal in this part of the world was at DAL in the 80's when Southwest had leased an EI 737-200.

IAG cargo says Aer lingus leaves at 19:15 tomorrow

Eitilt wrote:

Looks like an Aer Lingus Airbus 330-300 will pay you a visit next Saturday 17th.
Arriving around 8pm and staying till Sunday afternoon.
Probably a cargo charter so parking at a cargo ramp for the stay.

On IAG cargo it says it will depart at 19:15

Sooner787 wrote:

Anyone know when the rebuild of runway 18R/36L is supposed to be completed?

Courtesy: Airways Magazine

Dallas/Fort Worth Airport Reopens Runway 18R/36L

https://airwaysmag.com/airports/dfw-opens-refurbished-18r-36l/

The before and after photos are quite amazing.

DAL to close runway 13R/31L starting April 27th for approximately 10 months for reconstruction. This is DAL's primary runway.
https://www.dallas-lovefield.com/Home/Components/News/News/206/90

KarlB737 wrote:

Sooner787 wrote:

Anyone know when the rebuild of runway 18R/36L is supposed to be completed?

Courtesy: Airways Magazine

Dallas/Fort Worth Airport Reopens Runway 18R/36L

https://airwaysmag.com/airports/dfw-opens-refurbished-18r-36l/

The before and after photos are quite amazing.

So that's now both of the primary landing (17C/35C and 18R/36L) runways resurfaced. I assume one of the inner runways 17R/35L or 18L/36R is next?

KarlB737 wrote:

Dallas/Fort Worth Airport Reopens Runway 18R/36L

The before and after photos are quite amazing.

That's not 'before and after,' but rather a 'during and after' pic. I didn't think that it could have gotten in *that* bad of condition, even though that particular piece of WR would only get used a handful of times a year. But then I noticed that the hold short lights had already been ripped out (and the porta-john.)

Yesterday afternoon both Sun Class A330’s were parked side by side close to terminal F. One came from Amsterdam and one from Stockholm.

Brandon757 wrote:

DAL to close runway 13R/31L starting April 27th for approximately 10 months for reconstruction. This is DAL's primary runway.
https://www.dallas-lovefield.com/Home/Components/News/News/206/90

FYI for any spotters wanting to take advantage of the great runway views of 13L/31R
from George Coker Cir, the City of Dallas has made all the parking spots paid parking.
you'll now notice signs on the fence inviting you to download some parking app
so you can pay them to spot....ugh

gdg9 wrote:

It seems that Terminal F, when built, will most likely follow the standard 'horseshoe' layout.

F should be a clone of D, updated for any code changes and either reserving the CBP areas for future growth, or repurposing them. Presumably American wants the domestic C gates taken care of first.

Sooner787 wrote:

Brandon757 wrote:

DAL to close runway 13R/31L starting April 27th for approximately 10 months for reconstruction. This is DAL's primary runway.
https://www.dallas-lovefield.com/Home/Components/News/News/206/90

FYI for any spotters wanting to take advantage of the great runway views of 13L/31R
from George Coker Cir, the City of Dallas has made all the parking spots paid parking.
you'll now notice signs on the fence inviting you to download some parking app
so you can pay them to spot....ugh

I've never spotted at DAL before so I looked up this location and WOW those are some great views. Is this area meant as a viewing location? As in are you left alone if you park there and watch?

Brandon757 wrote:

Sooner787 wrote:

Brandon757 wrote:

DAL to close runway 13R/31L starting April 27th for approximately 10 months for reconstruction. This is DAL's primary runway.
https://www.dallas-lovefield.com/Home/Components/News/News/206/90

FYI for any spotters wanting to take advantage of the great runway views of 13L/31R
from George Coker Cir, the City of Dallas has made all the parking spots paid parking.
you'll now notice signs on the fence inviting you to download some parking app
so you can pay them to spot....ugh

I've never spotted at DAL before so I looked up this location and WOW those are some great views. Is this area meant as a viewing location? As in are you left alone if you park there and watch?

Yes it's a great spotting place. Once photographed SAM29000 landing on 13L
and got full frame shot with 50mm lense , but that was back in the 90's.
Secret Service shuts off that area now when the POTUS comes to town.
I guess as long as you play along and pay their online parking meters,
no one will bother you

It looks like VivaAerobus is seriously ramping up DFW.

They returned to DFW in November with sub-daily flights to Monterrey and sub-daily flights to Mexico City the following month.

In May, it looks like they'll operate 14x weekly flights to Monterrey and 18x weekly flights to Mexico City. 32x total weekly flights, that's an amazing increase.

glbltrvlr wrote:

gdg9 wrote:

It seems that Terminal F, when built, will most likely follow the standard 'horseshoe' layout.

F should be a clone of D, updated for any code changes and either reserving the CBP areas for future growth, or repurposing them. Presumably American wants the domestic C gates taken care of first.

Terminal C needs some TLC so badly! It's a hot, nasty mess and so brutalist.

Was flipping through the DFW Airport's Procurement Page and ran across this:

Request for Qualifications for Expansion of Central Terminal Area - Terminal C and A Piers and Renovations.
Based on the presentation, it looks like DFW is planning to add piers to the north third of Terminal A near current gate A15 and on the south third of Terminal C near gate C29.
In addition, another bid has been released for the Construction Firm to renovate terminal C (excluding the portion where the future pier will go) to bring Terminal C up to where the other Terminals are now after TRIP.

C/A Pier Presentation (jump to slide 43): https://sites.dfwairport.com/cs/groups/public/documents/webasset/p3_325720.pdf
C Renovation Presentation (jump to slide 50): https://sites.dfwairport.com/cs/groups/public/documents/webasset/p3_325241.pdf

Some questions that jumped into my mind are:
Could these piers signal a gradual departure from the horseshoe design for DFW? Will these projects mean that Terminal F is now further pushed back?

I think it would be safe to assume when Terminal F construction gets
the green light, it might have those pier extensions baked into the final design.