After the stinger was built on B, I wondered if the same concept could be applied to A and C as well. And now...it appears it will be.

Gee, I wonder who they are trying to make some space for? When is this project’s completion date supposed to be?

Nice, I like the horn-look. Both practical and aesthetic.

Increases the gate density.

Great find. This answers some questions I had around the previous reveal of the C renovation, like why they weren't going to TRIP the South Skylink station, and whether they were going to renovate the C club at the same time. (It looks like they are.)

But it also brings up more questions, such as: are they going to leave the 'C South Processor' as the only split-level design? (I can't see in the plans where they are doing the same to A North, at least not right now.) That will cause mass confusion, at least until the O&D crowd figures out that if you're picking up someone with bags at C South, you have to go downstairs. It's also odd that they're apparently not going to renumber the gates in A. I guess they don't want to spend the money on signage? And more modular construction.

stevend08 wrote:

Will these projects mean that Terminal F is now further pushed back?

That would be my guess. It's clear (to me, at least) that this is a rather recent development. Timing being somewhere between the construction of the A TRIP and the design for the C TRIP. (Yes, that's 3 to 4 years, but still quick for a quasi-governmental entity.) I think this opens them up to more possibilities. AA can get some incremental growth potential (DFW1000, anyone?) in the uncertain post-COViD environment, allowing F to be pushed out. And does that mean that F becomes the 'other airline' terminal, giving AA E? Instead, does AA take F in 10-15 years, leaving E as-is? Or, do they restructure F to be more of a linear terminal, that could -theoretically- incorporate some remaining portions of a TRIP'd D, and eventually doing something similar with B, leaving the linear West Concourse concept from decades ago?

OzarkD9S wrote:

After the stinger was built on B, I wondered if the same concept could be applied to A and C as well. And now...it appears it will be.

Somewhere, I think in a Master Plan document, there are airport-released concept drawings that showed -IIRC- a total of 6 stingers on A, B, and C (2 each, near the Skylink stations, as we see here.) I'm not certain, but I remember them being more like the B stinger, longer and skinnier, though that is for RJs and not ML equipment.

It does seem like an expensive way to add only 4 gates to "C" and and 5 gates to "A".

The Stingers are cheaper for AA than Terminal F. Isn't the southern part of Terminal C being rebuilt? This fits right in that plan.

Sooner787 wrote:

I think it would be safe to assume when Terminal F construction gets
the green light, it might have those pier extensions baked into the final design.

Im not convinced.

There is a lot of assumptions that F will be squared like D, which is what Id expect.

On an unrelated not, I was examining D1-3. I was very impressed. I have high hopes for these renovations.

alfa164 wrote:

It does seem like an expensive way to add only 4 gates to "C" and and 5 gates to "A".

I was thinking the same thing. I think it will improve passenger traffic flow also though, so maybe worth it. I do worry about aircraft flow. Seems like the B stinger and opening the E satellite have made it harder to move planes around those area's.

If you look closely at the graphic on slide 43, it looks like something is being done with the old TrAAm stations.

If you look closely at the graphic on slide 43, it looks like something is being done with the old TrAAm stations.

The south end of terminal D is also getting a few more gates. This expansion appears to be a connector to F once it is built. Also, the SkyLink is rounded where F will go, maybe it will be another horseshoe instead of squared like D.

Chuska wrote:

The south end of terminal D is also getting a few more gates. This expansion appears to be a connector to F once it is built. Also, the SkyLink is rounded where F will go, maybe it will be another horseshoe instead of squared like D.

Even though D is "squared", the train still follows a horseshoe route over the top of the terminal.

Interesting what they're doing with the gate numbering for the A stinger (see slide 50 of the first presentation).

There's gate A16A, A16B, A16C, all the way through to G, and then A16X.

maps4ltd wrote:

Interesting what they're doing with the gate numbering for the A stinger (see slide 50 of the first presentation).

There's gate A16A, A16B, A16C, all the way through to G, and then A16X.

There's at least two different gate numberings on the sheets, so this may not be how it shakes out in the end, but I don't see an A16X, I see A16BX* and A17X. The X isn't notating a separate or additional gate, it's notating a different lead-in line for WB aircraft. So, there will be two WB-capable gates on the A stinger, A16B and A17.


*Can SABRE accommodate 5-digit gate numbers?

TXRoadMan wrote:

Somewhere, I think in a Master Plan document, there are airport-released concept drawings that showed -IIRC- a total of 6 stingers on A, B, and C (2 each, near the Skylink stations, as we see here.) I'm not certain, but I remember them being more like the B stinger, longer and skinnier, though that is for RJs and not ML equipment.

From the 2014 Master Plan

Thanks for that! I had indeed misremembered the stinger configurations.

Some interesting things in there that they haven't done, at least not yet, and for some of them, not for awhile, if ever. (E infill, FIS extension for B, High-C extension looks more beefy than what is actually going in.)

I hope someone is thinking about coordinating these construction projects with the expansion of either the Orange Line or Tex Rail / Silver Line south from the current A/B terminal through the rest of the terminal complex - potentially even linking up with the Tri-Rail service at Centreport.

TXRoadMan wrote:

*Can SABRE accommodate 5-digit gate numbers?

Sabre cannot, nor can Shares or Amadeus for that matter. Sabre would require a substand assignment once you get over 4 letters.

I think it is too short-sighted and they should start considering replacement of all 4 terminals like this
https://www.airporthistory.org/dfw-rebuild-1.html

The construction cost is 1.65 billion in 1989, which is equal to 4 billion in 2021

chunhimlai wrote:

I think it is too short-sighted and they should start considering replacement of all 4 terminals like this
https://www.airporthistory.org/dfw-rebuild-1.html
The construction cost is 1.65 billion in 1989, which is equal to 4 billion in 2021

It won't happen, for two reasons:

1). The airlines - and in particular, AA, who would be footing the brunt of the bill (which are paid by user fees) - are in no financial position to build such an expensive facility; and

2). The advent of the "Skylink" ( the overhead train between terminals) pretty much ameliorates the connectivity problems that the original design caused. Connecting between terminals at DFW is arguably now as easy at as it is at any other airport of its size.

chunhimlai wrote:

I think it is too short-sighted and they should start considering replacement of all 4 terminals like this
https://www.airporthistory.org/dfw-rebuild-1.html

The construction cost is 1.65 billion in 1989, which is equal to 4 billion in 2021

Really cool article on DFW. Thanks for sharing!

How much work would it be to rebuild the airport to a ATL layout? In the long run you would have room for more gates and more flights.

Delta28L wrote:

How much work would it be to rebuild the airport to a ATL layout? In the long run you would have room for more gates and more flights.

Too much work..... DFW missed the window for that.

AmericanHeavy wrote:

From the 2014 Master Plan

Strange that the D stinger does not show a connection to the new F terminal.

glbltrvlr wrote:

Strange that the D stinger does not show a connection to the new F terminal.

I don't think that there's any question that it will, though. (At least as long as there's a piece of F there to connect to.)

In the internal documents, DFW hasn't even been calling it the 'D stinger,' it's been 'Terminal F, Phase 1.' That project also incorporated a lot of enabling projects for the rest of F, like site utilities.

glbltrvlr wrote:

If you look closely at the graphic on slide 43, it looks like something is being done with the old TrAAm stations.

From the presentations, it looks like both C baggage claims are being moved down to the ramp/Level 0. D was built with bags on the lower level, but A,B and E have everything upstairs. I always wondered why this wasn't done to the others during TRIP.

AmericanHeavy wrote:

TXRoadMan wrote:

Somewhere, I think in a Master Plan document, there are airport-released concept drawings that showed -IIRC- a total of 6 stingers on A, B, and C (2 each, near the Skylink stations, as we see here.) I'm not certain, but I remember them being more like the B stinger, longer and skinnier, though that is for RJs and not ML equipment.

From the 2014 Master Plan

If that E concourse gets built one day who would it be built for? AA, non-AA airlines currently in E?

SWADawg wrote:

Gee, I wonder who they are trying to make some space for? When is this project’s completion date supposed to be?

WN will be able to serve DFW in addition to DAL without having to give up any gates at DAL starting in 2025, and there was a discussion regarding WN's plans in the Dallas/Fort Worth market post-2024 at viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1452713.

While WN had insisted on getting the Wright Amendment repealed instead of entering DFW 15 years ago, the circumstances have changed with the Wright Amendment already having been repealed and with WN now serving airports that it previously stayed out of such as ORD and MIA.

If WN does add service to DFW, WN would probably want to operate some nonstop international flights out of DFW with the WARA and 5-party agreement restricting nonstop service out of DAL to the 50 states and the District of Columbia.

Some updates for DFW:

- Finally receiving a new airline with Turkish Airlines launching flights some time later.

- Qatar is increasing DOH-DFW from 10x to 12x weekly in mid-July. The afternoon A350-1000 flight swaps to the 777-300ER from mid-July to the end of July.

- Lufthansa resumed DFW in May with a 3x weekly flight. Already increased to 5x weekly this month.

- Delta announced BOS-DFW, going against AA/B6

Which foreign carriers still have not scheduled resumption of service to DFW?
Also - that's a lot of Qatar capacity. Which other of their US stations are currently more than daily?

AAtakeMeAway wrote:

Which foreign carriers still have not scheduled resumption of service to DFW?
Also - that's a lot of Qatar capacity. Which other of their US stations are currently more than daily?

The remaining three foreign carriers that currently do not fly to DFW have a scheduled resumption but they're highly subject to change.

Air France - March 2022
Qantas - December 2021
Air Canada - September 2021

Aeromexico returns next week.

Qatar's DOH-LAX/IAD/JFK/ORD will be 2x daily from July. DFW is the only one more than daily but less than 2x daily.

Ishrion, is JAL planning to keep both the NRT and HND routes permanently?

Brandon757 wrote:

Ishrion, is JAL planning to keep both the NRT and HND routes permanently?

As of now, it's still temporary. The 4x weekly NRT ends on September 29 and HND goes from 3x weekly to daily on October 1.

Ishrion wrote:

Brandon757 wrote:

Ishrion, is JAL planning to keep both the NRT and HND routes permanently?

As of now, it's still temporary. The 4x weekly NRT ends on September 29 and HND goes from 3x weekly to daily on October 1.

Ah, gotcha. Appreciate it.

justplanenutz wrote:

glbltrvlr wrote:

If you look closely at the graphic on slide 43, it looks like something is being done with the old TrAAm stations.

From the presentations, it looks like both C baggage claims are being moved down to the ramp/Level 0. D was built with bags on the lower level, but A,B and E have everything upstairs. I always wondered why this wasn't done to the others during TRIP.

Why? Arrivals is on the top level and Departures are on the bottom. (Though I think it should be switched).

Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN flights out of DAL in April 2021:
ABQ-DAL - 20714 passengers, 27308 seats, 75.85% load factor
AMA-DAL - 13978 passengers, 17768 seats, 78.67% load factor
ATL-DAL - 29621 passengers, 34338 seats, 86.26% load factor
AUS-DAL - 33055 passengers, 44833 seats, 73.73% load factor
BHM-DAL - 13224 passengers, 15640 seats, 84.55% load factor
BNA-DAL - 27546 passengers, 35943 seats, 76.64% load factor
BUR-DAL - 2319 passengers, 3210 seats, 72.24% load factor
BWI-DAL - 29215 passengers, 34131 seats, 85.60% load factor
CHS-DAL - 7186 passengers, 8885 seats, 80.88% load factor
CLT-DAL - 7283 passengers, 9316 seats, 78.18% load factor
CMH-DAL - 5209 passengers, 6518 seats, 79.92% load factor
COS-DAL - 11380 passengers, 25518 seats, 44.60% load factor
DAL-DCA - 9827 passengers, 17273 seats, 56.89% load factor
DAL-DEN - 51436 passengers, 68292 seats, 75.32% load factor
DAL-ECP - 13215 passengers, 16208 seats, 81.53% load factor
DAL-ELP - 22545 passengers, 25067 seats, 89.94% load factor
DAL-FLL - 20869 passengers, 27837 seats, 74.97% load factor
DAL-HDN - 169 passengers, 572 seats, 29.55% load factor
DAL-HOU - 55801 passengers, 75562 seats, 73.85% load factor
DAL-HRL - 2395 passengers, 2574 seats, 93.05% load factor
DAL-IAH - 7395 passengers, 25597 seats, 28.89% load factor
DAL-IND - 6178 passengers, 7103 seats, 86.98% load factor
DAL-JAX - 615 passengers, 715 seats, 86.01% load factor
DAL-LAS - 46233 passengers, 51734 seats, 89.37% load factor
DAL-LAX - 28977 passengers, 31356 seats, 92.41% load factor
DAL-LBB - 21859 passengers, 24903 seats, 87.78% load factor
DAL-LGA - 15200 passengers, 17256 seats, 88.09% load factor
DAL-LGB - 6935 passengers, 8693 seats, 79.78% load factor
DAL-LIT - 12341 passengers, 16752 seats, 73.67% load factor
DAL-MAF - 13516 passengers, 21759 seats, 62.12% load factor
DAL-MCI - 23673 passengers, 27993 seats, 84.57% load factor
DAL-MCO - 40746 passengers, 46800 seats, 87.06% load factor
DAL-MDW - 43173 passengers, 53753 seats, 80.32% load factor
DAL-MEM - 8152 passengers, 9762 seats, 83.51% load factor
DAL-MIA - 6687 passengers, 8294 seats, 80.62% load factor
DAL-MSY - 32263 passengers, 38060 seats, 84.77% load factor
DAL-MTJ - 183 passengers, 572 seats, 31.99% load factor
DAL-OAK - 10198 passengers, 11698 seats, 87.18% load factor
DAL-OMA - 5448 passengers, 6072 seats, 89.72% load factor
DAL-ONT - 6969 passengers, 9412 seats, 74.04% load factor
DAL-ORD - 15790 passengers, 25486 seats, 61.96% load factor
DAL-PDX - 1149 passengers, 1304 seats, 88.11% load factor
DAL-PHX - 52902 passengers, 61458 seats, 86.08% load factor
DAL-PNS - 13130 passengers, 18009 seats, 72.91% load factor
DAL-RNO - 4795 passengers, 8915 seats, 53.79% load factor
DAL-RSW - 6733 passengers, 9062 seats, 74.30% load factor
DAL-SAN - 16861 passengers, 19695 seats, 85.61% load factor
DAL-SAT - 36316 passengers, 45225 seats, 80.30% load factor
DAL-SAV - 5578 passengers, 8644 seats, 64.53% load factor
DAL-SJC - 9634 passengers, 15010 seats, 64.18% load factor
DAL-SLC - 10697 passengers, 14637 seats, 73.08% load factor
DAL-SMF - 3043 passengers, 3498 seats, 86.99% load factor
DAL-SNA - 6393 passengers, 8821 seats, 72.47% load factor
DAL-STL - 27128 passengers, 34057 seats, 79.65% load factor
DAL-TPA - 23809 passengers, 28424 seats, 83.76% load factor
DAL-TUL - 16275 passengers, 23831 seats, 68.29% load factor

Wow, 93% LF for HRL in April which is lighter for that airport and WN still can't make it work year-round.

It appears that ATW's application for a SCASD grant was approved for service between DFW and ATW.

Does anybody know if or when AA typically makes new service announcements following this sort of award?

https://fox11online.com/news/local/with ... -to-dallas

HCLF wrote:

It appears that ATW's application for a SCASD grant was approved for service between DFW and ATW.

Does anybody know if or when AA typically makes new service announcements following this sort of award?

https://fox11online.com/news/local/with ... -to-dallas

AA is under no obligation to start this service. At some point, probably soon, they'll have some negotiations with the airport and see if they can work out a deal of some sort. If so then they'll announce it, if not they won't. If they decide to start the service we'll hear about it sometime, if not then no announcement is typically made.

So far this summer Ive seen Sunclass Airlines an A330-200 and A330-300 parked together where the new terminal is going to be, A Vietnam airlines 787, think it was a 900, 2 Korean airlines 787's parked together where the new terminal is going to be along with 2 JAL 787's parked a few times. Also seen Qatar and Emirates passenger planes used as cargo flights coming in from LUX. Have seen as many as 3 Qatar planes on the ground at the same time here. One usually at the cargo hangers and the other 2 parked by the International terminal. been an interesting summer here at DFW. Nice to see unusual airlines here.

Super88 wrote:

So far this summer Ive seen Sunclass Airlines an A330-200 and A330-300 parked together where the new terminal is going to be, A Vietnam airlines 787, think it was a 900, 2 Korean airlines 787's parked together where the new terminal is going to be along with 2 JAL 787's parked a few times. Also seen Qatar and Emirates passenger planes used as cargo flights coming in from LUX. Have seen as many as 3 Qatar planes on the ground at the same time here. One usually at the cargo hangers and the other 2 parked by the International terminal. been an interesting summer here at DFW. Nice to see unusual airlines here.

Well Korean, Japan, Qatar, and Emirates are regulars here.

Super88 wrote:

So far this summer Ive seen Sunclass Airlines an A330-200 and A330-300 parked together where the new terminal is going to be, A Vietnam airlines 787, think it was a 900, 2 Korean airlines 787's parked together where the new terminal is going to be along with 2 JAL 787's parked a few times. Also seen Qatar and Emirates passenger planes used as cargo flights coming in from LUX. Have seen as many as 3 Qatar planes on the ground at the same time here. One usually at the cargo hangers and the other 2 parked by the International terminal. been an interesting summer here at DFW. Nice to see unusual airlines here.

There was also the very rare sight back in April of an Aer Lingus A333 operating a cargo charter which parked close to D.
Here it is arriving from DUB https://www.airliners.net/photo/Aer-Lin ... 02/6404333

TK flights to DFW will begin September 24, 2021.

TK191 IST 14:10- 18:55 DFW
TK 192 DFW 20:25 - 15:50+1 IST

Will be operated 4x weekly by 787-9.

DFWandOMA wrote:

TK flights to DFW will begin September 24, 2021.

TK191 IST 14:10- 18:55 DFW
TK 192 DFW 20:25 - 15:50+1 IST

Will be operated 4x weekly by 787-9.

Where were you able to find that info, I have been trying to find it?

DEN1895 wrote:

DFWandOMA wrote:

TK flights to DFW will begin September 24, 2021.

TK191 IST 14:10- 18:55 DFW
TK 192 DFW 20:25 - 15:50+1 IST

Will be operated 4x weekly by 787-9.

Where were you able to find that info, I have been trying to find it?

This is the link in the other thread.
https://www.airporthaber.com/havacilik-haberleri/thy-ucus-agina-yeni-bir-nokta-ekleyecek.html

What was interesting to see was multiple planes on the ground for JAL, Korean, Qatar and Emirates, usually only see one of each except Qatar sometimes there is one cargo and one passenger plane on the ground.... would love to have seen Aer Lingus....I remember ages ago seeing Air New Zealand back when they served DFW

Super88 wrote:

What was interesting to see was multiple planes on the ground for JAL, Korean, Qatar and Emirates, usually only see one of each except Qatar sometimes there is one cargo and one passenger plane on the ground.... would love to have seen Aer Lingus....I remember ages ago seeing Air New Zealand back when they served DFW

And also THAI. I flew them from BKK to DFW with stops in NRT and SEA back in the 80s. Actually saw 2 Thai planes in SEA, one heading to DFW, one coming from YYZ heading back to NRT.

Well, appears new stingers were approved at DFW for Terminals A and C today.

https://www.fox4news.com/news/dfw-airpo ... terminal-c

Sooner787 wrote:

Well, appears new stingers were approved at DFW for Terminals A and C today.

https://www.fox4news.com/news/dfw-airpo ... terminal-c

So how does that split out work? Seems like a lot of expense and effort for 4-5 gates in each terminal…

Not sure but I'll bet they'll use the same construction technique now in progress for the new high C gates.
Building sections of the new terminal on the airport grounds , then moving each piece over and hoisting them
into position like big Lego blocks.