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Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:11 pm

Welcome to the Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread 2021. Please continue to post your news and your discussion here.

Link to previous thread:

Raleigh/Durham Aviation Thread - 2020
 
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ERJ170
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:20 pm

Anyone able to do a recap of 2020? It wasn’t the best year for sure but it was an interesting one. From what I can recall:

* Parking: Central Parking and One Park and Ride lot is open
* Runway refurbishment but no movement on new runway
* Terminal 1 4 gates completed but not opened
* Consolidate Rental Center announced
* United Club opened but closed
* AA and Delta clubs fully open
* AC international yet to resume but YYZ and YUL still on the books
* F9 made RDU a focus city then pulled back
* DL focus city put on pause
* B6 stormed forward going to 3 destinations to 12?
* LHR and CDG on pause until Q1/Q2 2021
* MBJ and Punta Cana dropped by F9 and MBJ picked up by B6
* No new airlines (regional or international)
* No new mass transit or transit options
* Shops came and went
* New hangars being built but no announcement as to the owners (unless they are all private)
* Rams Air building torn down for RON parking
* Observation area still closed

What else? What’s your destination desire?
 
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SANFan
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:23 pm

ERJ170 wrote:
What else? What’s your destination desire?

Since you asked, SAN! With any luck and some good numbers, perhaps we'll see a serious (read: a carrier other than F9) attempt at RDU-SAN in 2021!

My first choice of carrier -- most desired as well as most likely -- would be AS, followed by B6, WN and who knows, maybe even DL...? From my end of the route, AS makes the most sense, from the RDU side, prolly B6; at least both cities are served by all 4 mentioned cx. I almost always figure WN as a possibility. (Most other cx also serve both RDU and SAN but I figure the probability of a nonstop at somewhere between 0 and .001% which ironically, is about where I place DL.)

In any case, Happy New Year to you all in the beautiful Raleigh area!

bb
 
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:12 am

I think there is a pretty good chance JetBlue will announce RDU focus city this year. Most of my predictions from 2020 thread already happened, so this will be what I think makes the most sense for them to add in 2021.

LGA, MIA, PHL, PBI, SAN, BDL, BUF, CLE
- Adding LGA will complete the NYC coverage.
- Adding MIA + PBI will complete the Florida coverage
- PHL makes sense given the # of P2P they already offer
- SAN will give them full coverage of California. Currently, the largest unserved market out of RDU I think.
- BDL makes sense in the likely event that DL doesn't restart service this year.
- BUF makes sense given the market size and also their presence in that market.
- CLE because DL has cut this route.

curiously, how much gate space are there available for B6 to expand?
 
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:20 am

tphuang wrote:
I think there is a pretty good chance JetBlue will announce RDU focus city this year. Most of my predictions from 2020 thread already happened, so this will be what I think makes the most sense for them to add in 2021.

LGA, MIA, PHL, PBI, SAN, BDL, BUF, CLE
- Adding LGA will complete the NYC coverage.
- Adding MIA + PBI will complete the Florida coverage
- PHL makes sense given the # of P2P they already offer
- SAN will give them full coverage of California. Currently, the largest unserved market out of RDU I think.
- BDL makes sense in the likely event that DL doesn't restart service this year.
- BUF makes sense given the market size and also their presence in that market.
- CLE because DL has cut this route.

curiously, how much gate space are there available for B6 to expand?

Well that's encouraging! I'll be following Blue at RDU (along with AS at SAN just 'cause that's what I do.)

bb
 
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ERJ170
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:25 am

tphuang wrote:

curiously, how much gate space are there available for B6 to expand?


JetBlue currently have 2 gates in Terminal 2. Concourse D where they are currently located the e a few gates that could be used. I can maybe see them having up to 5 gates in C. I don’t see AA or DL giving up any of their C gates and I don’t see B6 wanting to do a split operation C/D since the D gates would be all the way at the end of D (since the LLC are destined to moved to T2).

Even though RDU is CUTE.. I don’t know if I see DL giving up their gates to give to B6...
 
jbwhite99
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 01, 2021 5:42 am

If you are looking for cities (once business travel comes back), I'd like to see SJC (and no, WN, I don't mean once a week on Sundays!) and PDX as the choices.

The other thing that would be nice to see is serving from RDU instate (and I don't mean Charlotte). Like AVL, OAJ, etc. If you are creating a focus city, Mr. M6, offer service to RDU from cities like this or RIC, TYS, and you can funnel a lot of service one stop to a lot of the country, plus fill up more of the RDU flights. Run a mini-hub, essentially.
 
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SANFan
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 01, 2021 5:21 pm

jbwhite99 wrote:
If you are looking for cities (once business travel comes back), I'd like to see SJC (and no, WN, I don't mean once a week on Sundays!) and PDX as the choices.

I don't think we have to pick a limited number of cities as you suggest ("SJC and PDX as THE choices.") I don't know what you are basing your choice of cities on -- need, pax traffic, desire to just see more nonstops from your cities of choice, other?

But maybe we should check PDEWs on a few of the cities mentioned and see how the cities stack up, traffic wise. These numbers are based on the average of the first 3 quarters of 2019 as posted by the DOT in Tables 1A or 6:
RDU-BUF: ~69 PDEW (lowest count in Q1: 43 PDEW) from Table 6;
RDU-CLE: ~98 PDEW (lowest count in Q1: 85 PDEW) from Table 1A;
RDU-PDX: ~92 PDEW (lowest count in Q1: 62 PDEW) from Table 6;
RDU-SAN: ~175 PDEW (lowest count in Q1: 147 PDEW) from Table 6;
RDU-SJC: ~87 PDEW (lowest count in Q1: 73 PDEW) from Table 1A. Just putting things in perspective as to the likelihood of any of this happening.

Of course carrier, distance & a/c type, seasonality, connecting-beyond opportunities, and yields all have to be factored in.

bb
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:17 pm

tphuang wrote:
I think there is a pretty good chance JetBlue will announce RDU focus city this year. Most of my predictions from 2020 thread already happened, so this will be what I think makes the most sense for them to add in 2021.

LGA, MIA, PHL, PBI, SAN, BDL, BUF, CLE
- Adding LGA will complete the NYC coverage.
- Adding MIA + PBI will complete the Florida coverage
- PHL makes sense given the # of P2P they already offer
- SAN will give them full coverage of California. Currently, the largest unserved market out of RDU I think.
- BDL makes sense in the likely event that DL doesn't restart service this year.
- BUF makes sense given the market size and also their presence in that market.
- CLE because DL has cut this route.

curiously, how much gate space are there available for B6 to expand?


I definitely think B6 has the opportunity to expand in RDU and while I don't think a partnership with American will pan out (which is anyway, focused on the NE, the combination of what each carrier would offer at RDU would be a compelling story). Some fo these routes though, are doubtful and not workable in the post-pandemic world. LGA yes, PHL maybe, SAN would be smart for the reasons you mention, BUF not sure there is that much demand, CLE, highly unlikely, and MIA seems like a losing proposition as AA will likely have the business traffic on both ends of the route. We'll have to see, I guess. If DL dumped these routes, it was quite probably more than just cost-cutting.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:32 pm

DL is adding back RDU-LAS and increasing it from weekend only pre-covid, to daily on a B739
 
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ERJ170
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:39 pm

I think DL has seen that if they want to keep Market share and Business share, they won’t be able to back off... they worked very hard to get their market share and their business contracts and to lose them will be difficult. Good for them. But looks like RDU is gonna be a contested market. Lots of people moved to Raleigh-Durham MSA during Covid.. but let’s see how that plays out.

And more importantly, how is it gonna play out with gate space. B6 is going to need 3-4 gates, DL is gonna want to keep all of theirs. Same with AA and UA. I could see AS moved down to share with AA and that would open 1. All the LCC should be moved to T1 ASAP.

I hope to see WestJet and AM one day in the next 2 years..UA is the only legacy without a TATL at RDU. Could they do FRA with their 321XLR?
 
tphuang
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:04 pm

I think DL's early March RDU trims indicated that it had already made the decision to not be back into business markets for this summer and possibly rest of the year.

JetBlue added all those new routes a couple of days after we saw those cuts. Which would indicate JetBlue's planned those routes before DL's cuts. Which means a combination of:
1) JetBlue wanted to expand into RDU regardless of what DL might do
2) JetBllue sees RDU as low on DL's priority list and wanted to get in there before DL brings back its other hubs/focus cities

As for gate access, as long as the legacy airlines are not meeting their gate usage requirements and JetBlue is eager to add new flights, I don't see how RDAA would not grant them the gates needed to fly those routes. I don't anticipate JetBlue will actually need more than 3 or 4 gates this year. But if they want to actually build a focus city, they'd need more than that. It's hard for me to
 
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:43 pm

Latest is DL brings back AUS and JAX on E75 and LAS on 739.

I wonder if B6 is getting part of the incentives for their new flights?

In other news, RDU leased to a car dealership...
 
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:11 am

RDU reports a 66% drop in passengers for 2020 at 4.9Mil, while 2019 had 14.2Mil. The 2020 number not seen since 1987.

Seems like a long ways to go but I expect RDU to continue to lag a little as most of the flying traffic is leisure traffic and RDU has a relatively interesting nearly 50/50 leisure/business traffic. Business traffic still has a ways to go to recover but, IMO, when it does.. it will bounce back suddenly. A lot of business are still culling business traffic until the international borders reopen without quarantine timelines. But when they open, the gates will flood and not trickle and the airlines will need to be ready.
 
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:50 am

Looks like SY (Sun Country) is starting service to MSP in May. New airline!!!!
 
RDUDDJI
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:36 pm

ERJ170 wrote:

In other news, RDU leased to a car dealership...


That's actually happened in many cites, as dealers need places to park all the new cars they ordered that weren't selling. Airports make a good choice, since they have a plethora of unused parking capacity at the moment.
 
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:47 pm

RDUDDJI wrote:
ERJ170 wrote:

In other news, RDU leased to a car dealership...


That's actually happened in many cites, as dealers need places to park all the new cars they ordered that weren't selling. Airports make a good choice, since they have a plethora of unused parking capacity at the moment.


It's a saleshowroom and everything, if i recall correctly... I can understanding leasing parking spots but the article showed a showroom and everthing.. that sounds permanent
 
Runway765
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:04 pm

Is it true they scaled back the runway reconstruction to 10,000 ft? If so, that is pretty shortsighted if you ask me.

Also, did they put the CONRAC on hold as well?
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 2:36 pm

Came across this, and I thought it might be of some interest:

Image

https://slideplayer.com/slide/14239480/
 
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ERJ170
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:39 am

So, some routes have been announced to RDU and they are covered in other threads. The biggest thing I have noticed, though, is that WN is basically staying status quo at RDU. I mean adding back routes that were cut, but nothing new. That’s kinda surprising considering how they are adding new routes to peer stations. But I don’t think any NEW stations have been added to RDU. That’s sad, no?
 
RDUDDJI
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:28 am

Midwestindy wrote:
Came across this, and I thought it might be of some interest:

Image

https://slideplayer.com/slide/14239480/


Missed this. I’m only slightly surprised to see RDU on the list, but I’m more surprised that SAN is below RDU. Proximity alone would have lead me to guess they’d be higher.

RDU has a pretty good sized Asian/Asian-American population for being easily the smallest market on that list. I’m not expecting any TPAC flights, but maybe some more West Coast connecting service (at least for East bound traffic).
 
Runway765
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:33 am

RDUDDJI wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Came across this, and I thought it might be of some interest:

Image

https://slideplayer.com/slide/14239480/


Missed this. I’m only slightly surprised to see RDU on the list, but I’m more surprised that SAN is below RDU. Proximity alone would have lead me to guess they’d be higher.

RDU has a pretty good sized Asian/Asian-American population for being easily the smallest market on that list. I’m not expecting any TPAC flights, but maybe some more West Coast connecting service (at least for East bound traffic).


Based on this, it’s stupid RDU won’t be allowed to extend the runway length to 11,500 ft when they rebuild 5L/23R. They need the flexibility for potential future flights.
 
jbwhite99
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:54 pm

ERJ170 wrote:
So, some routes have been announced to RDU and they are covered in other threads. The biggest thing I have noticed, though, is that WN is basically staying status quo at RDU. I mean adding back routes that were cut, but nothing new. That’s kinda surprising considering how they are adding new routes to peer stations. But I don’t think any NEW stations have been added to RDU. That’s sad, no?



Question now becomes how much of WN's traffic is business, and how much is leisure (this might explain why no expansion of the network out of RDU). For that matter, what has happened to their future peers in Terminal 1. Are Allegiant, Frontier, and Spirit going to get back to full capacity with their exotic destinations like Buffalo and Portland, ME? Or has their momentum been stolen by JetBlue?
 
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:13 pm

I’m also noticing now Caribbean, Mexico, Bermuda, or other leisure routes coming to RDU. I guess people in NC mainly go to Florida and that’s about it?
 
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:01 pm

Looks like B6 is dropping a significant portion of their recent adds from RDU.

RDU-RSW/JAX/LAS/MBJ/SFO/TPA/AUS/MCO all seem to be out.
 
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:40 pm

Can we get some WestJet, AeroMexico, and some other international love? Good Lawd!
 
USAirALB
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:50 pm

ERJ170 wrote:
Can we get some WestJet, AeroMexico, and some other international love? Good Lawd!

With all due respect to RDU, why would AM serve RDU? AM struggled to make BOS and IAD work which are both larger markets to MEX than RDU.

The only international carrier I can see starting RDU would be Y4. Apparently their CLT-GDL service has been quite successful and they just added another weekly frequency IIRC.
 
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:10 am

ERJ170 wrote:
Can we get some WestJet, AeroMexico, and some other international love? Good Lawd!


In this environment? Not likely. And Aeromexico would be a longshot even in normal times.
 
rajincajun01
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:20 am

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
ERJ170 wrote:
Can we get some WestJet, AeroMexico, and some other international love? Good Lawd!


In this environment? Not likely. And Aeromexico would be a longshot even in normal times.


Mexico was downgraded to Cat 2, so I believe AM cannot add a new destination in the US until they return to Cat 1.
 
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ERJ170
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:04 pm

Ahhhh… what could have been. According to the Triangle Business Journal, RDU was just inches away from getting AMS and FRA service before Covid. AMS I could see KLM on. FRA, I felt like UA opening a club at RDU was part of a bigger picture. It also said the Asia flight was a ways off, mostly due to the runway replacement need.

Very interesting. They don’t expect the AMS or FRA option to come to fruition until at least 2023.

Still several domestic routes that would be nice to return. Also wish DL could set up a mini intra-Carolina service.

Link to story from Triangle Business Service
 
MAH4546
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 11, 2021 6:09 am

ERJ170 wrote:
Ahhhh… what could have been. According to the Triangle Business Journal, RDU was just inches away from getting AMS and FRA service before Covid. AMS I could see KLM on. FRA, I felt like UA opening a club at RDU was part of a bigger picture. It also said the Asia flight was a ways off, mostly due to the runway replacement need.

Very interesting. They don’t expect the AMS or FRA option to come to fruition until at least 2023.

Still several domestic routes that would be nice to return. Also wish DL could set up a mini intra-Carolina service.

Link to story from Triangle Business Service


Raleigh-Asia we are realistically looking at 2045-2055 timeframe. I doubt COVID has changed that.
 
MaxTrimm
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 11, 2021 4:16 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
ERJ170 wrote:
Ahhhh… what could have been. According to the Triangle Business Journal, RDU was just inches away from getting AMS and FRA service before Covid. AMS I could see KLM on. FRA, I felt like UA opening a club at RDU was part of a bigger picture. It also said the Asia flight was a ways off, mostly due to the runway replacement need.

Very interesting. They don’t expect the AMS or FRA option to come to fruition until at least 2023.

Still several domestic routes that would be nice to return. Also wish DL could set up a mini intra-Carolina service.

Link to story from Triangle Business Service


Raleigh-Asia we are realistically looking at 2045-2055 timeframe. I doubt COVID has changed that.

25 years? You really think so? I don’t think it was necessarily close, but RDU-Asia, to me at least, seemed 5-10 years out. 25 years is a really really long time in this industry.
 
MSJYOP28Apilot
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:00 pm

I do wonder about the fragility and profitability of the RDU market internationally. AA and DL have not operated many, if any, cargo charters to Europe. Both have been willing to fly markets internationally during the past 15 months with low passenger counts but with enough freight to make operating worth the costs. It is pretty clear that RDU freight to Europe is not that profitable. AA has started new routes like BOS/SEA to LHR have been started before RDU has been resumed.

I think before anyone starts to think about Asia service, it needs to be seen how much business travel recovers as the pandemic wanes and borders re-open. I dont think RDU can currently support year round LHR/CDG without business travel returning to what it was 15 months ago.
 
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:02 pm

MSJYOP28Apilot wrote:
I do wonder about the fragility and profitability of the RDU market internationally. AA and DL have not operated many, if any, cargo charters to Europe. Both have been willing to fly markets internationally during the past 15 months with low passenger counts but with enough freight to make operating worth the costs. It is pretty clear that RDU freight to Europe is not that profitable.


I can't speak on the profitability of cargo in/out of RDU, but I also suspect it's low compared to many other markets. The RDU area is not a major manufacturing hub, logistics or transit hub. Even the ports in NC (ILM and Morehead City) are quite small compared to say SAV and CHS. When I worked for UA @ RDU almost all their Int'l freight was trucked to IAD and loaded on flights there. Since the merger, I suspect AA probably does the same with CLT.

All that to say, no pax airline is going to waste a widebody with a primary goal to pickup freight to/from RDU.
 
jplatts
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 18, 2021 3:24 am

Here are the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN flights out of RDU in April 2021:
ATL-RDU - 14202 passengers, 17744 seats, 80.04% load factor
BNA-RDU - 16015 passengers, 18504 seats, 86.55% load factor
BWI-RDU - 22945 passengers, 26868 seats, 85.40% load factor
DEN-RDU - 8915 passengers, 9828 seats, 90.71% load factor
FLL-RDU - 5217 passengers, 7216 seats, 72.30% load factor
LAS-RDU - 545 passengers, 636 seats, 85.69% load factor
MCO-RDU - 11913 passengers, 14859 seats, 80.17% load factor
MDW-RDU - 16463 passengers, 18860 seats, 87.29% load factor
PHX-RDU - 6857 passengers, 7984 seats, 85.88% load factor
RDU-STL - 7310 passengers, 8748 seats, 83.56% load factor
RDU-TPA - 956 passengers, 1208 seats, 79.14% load factor
 
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ERJ170
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:17 am

Seems like WN is doing well, but funny how they have not added any new destinations out of RDU with all the new stations and flights added. I mean, I don’t recall seeing any RDU additions in any of their announcements. Oh well.
 
BangersAndMash
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:43 pm

ERJ170 wrote:
Seems like WN is doing well, but funny how they have not added any new destinations out of RDU with all the new stations and flights added. I mean, I don’t recall seeing any RDU additions in any of their announcements. Oh well.


With DL and AA at each other's throat, it's probably wise to watch how that one unfolds for now. If you're WN, you can always pounce later if one of those two gives in and exits to fill the gap. Less painful that way!
 
Delta28L
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:52 pm

ERJ170 wrote:
Seems like WN is doing well, but funny how they have not added any new destinations out of RDU with all the new stations and flights added. I mean, I don’t recall seeing any RDU additions in any of their announcements. Oh well.


If they haven’t added a bunch of new routes and cities elsewhere in the system and they had enough planes and staffing I could’ve seen some new routes. Southwest isn’t like the other airlines. They need to find routes that can support a 737 at the start.
 
jplatts
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 18, 2021 5:04 pm

Delta28L wrote:
ERJ170 wrote:
Seems like WN is doing well, but funny how they have not added any new destinations out of RDU with all the new stations and flights added. I mean, I don’t recall seeing any RDU additions in any of their announcements. Oh well.


If they haven’t added a bunch of new routes and cities elsewhere in the system and they had enough planes and staffing I could’ve seen some new routes. Southwest isn’t like the other airlines. They need to find routes that can support a 737 at the start.


There are a few markets not currently served nonstop from RDU such as SAT and SAN that could probably support nonstop service out of RDU on WN on a 737-700. WN also already has significant market share and established FF bases in both the SAT and SAN markets to support RDU-SAT/SAN nonstop service on WN.

There are also business ties between RDU and SAN to support RDU-SAN nonstop service on WN with San Diego-based Qualcomm having a campus near RDU airport in the Research Triangle. There are also some military ties between North Carolina and San Diego with the military bases that are there in both San Diego and North Carolina along with there being a Navy Operational Support Center in Raleigh, NC.

PDX could probably support nonstop service from RDU on AS with PDX being one of the top remaining markets that isn't currently served nonstop from RDU. AS also would have its FF base in the Pacific Northwest plus AA's FF base in the Research Triangle to support RDU-PDX nonstop service on AS.
 
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ERJ170
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:42 pm

Uuuggghhhhh.. looks like Delta has dropped RDU-JAX/CUN. So sad… but if you counter this with the recent adds…. *crickets*… well, even if DL hasnt added, other airlines have added… *tumbleweed*… Well there was a new airline of…. *stake to heart*…

Ok. In other news, some old projects that were out on hold are moving forward like CONRAC, security gates 12-14, RON space, security gates, PnR 3 expansion, ENvirnmental study for new runway, and preparations for T2 FIS expansion.
 
JettNC
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:51 am

The RDU Newsoom reported that RDU will re-open their Observation Park on Monday August 2, 2021. The park provides views of the airport’s 10,000 foot primary runway 5L/23R. The park will be open 9 AM to sunset every day. Features include free parking, restrooms, an elevated observation platform, communication between pilots and the tower and a picnic area.
 
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ERJ170
Posts: 5965
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:15 am

Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:01 am

Would have been nice if they had added some updates or upgrades like additional seating on the ground level, snack bar, maybe a monitor showing incoming flights or something.. to at least make the time close useful…

Any word on when the T1 gates will open?
 
jbwhite99
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:21 pm

Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Aug 11, 2021 11:40 am

Nothing that hasn't been discussed anymore, but WRAL is reporting about new TSA Checkpoints in Terminal 2.

https://www.wral.com/rdu-airport-to-add ... /19820823/
 
jplatts
Posts: 5573
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 15, 2021 2:31 am

Here are the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN flights out of RDU in May 2021:
ATL-RDU - 16006 passengers, 18429 seats, 86.85% load factor
BNA-RDU - 17880 passengers, 19460 seats, 91.88% load factor
BWI-RDU - 25018 passengers, 28093 seats, 89.05% load factor
DEN-RDU - 13420 passengers, 15142 seats, 88.63% load factor
FLL-RDU - 7378 passengers, 9030 seats, 81.71% load factor
LAS-RDU - 5924 passengers, 6633 seats, 89.31% load factor
MCO-RDU - 11808 passengers, 13476 seats, 87.62% load factor
MDW-RDU - 17228 passengers, 18749 seats, 91.89% load factor
PHX-RDU - 8500 passengers, 9318 seats, 91.22% load factor
RDU-STL - 7916 passengers, 8524 seats, 92.87% load factor
RDU-TPA - 2009 passengers, 2448 seats, 82.07% load factor
 
ScrantonUSC
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:49 pm

Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 16, 2021 1:14 pm

Got an email from BA that my LHR-RDU leg was canceled in in late November. I was curious so I went to AA to check when it's back in the system, and it's not back until March. With the easing of entry to the UK and Europe, I thought this flight would have started back up. I'm guessing transatlantic business travel hasn't recovered like they thought.
 
BangersAndMash
Posts: 637
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:21 pm

Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 16, 2021 7:13 pm

Looks like DL is busy slashing and burning in RDU.

BDL/BNA/BWI/CVG/IND look to be gone for good.
 
jbwhite99
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:21 pm

Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:19 pm

BangersAndMash wrote:
Looks like DL is busy slashing and burning in RDU.

BDL/BNA/BWI/CVG/IND look to be gone for good.



Yeah, but Hartford, Cincinnati, and Indianapolis are definitely business destinations, and Nashville/Baltimore are Southwest strongholds, so none of these 5 are a big shock. To me, it is more of an indictment of how far Cincinnati/Covington has fallen - this is the 2nd Delta hub that RDU has lost service to - Memphis being the other.
 
BangersAndMash
Posts: 637
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:21 pm

Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:57 pm

jbwhite99 wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:
Looks like DL is busy slashing and burning in RDU.

BDL/BNA/BWI/CVG/IND look to be gone for good.


Yeah, but Hartford, Cincinnati, and Indianapolis are definitely business destinations, and Nashville/Baltimore are Southwest strongholds, so none of these 5 are a big shock. To me, it is more of an indictment of how far Cincinnati/Covington has fallen - this is the 2nd Delta hub that RDU has lost service to - Memphis being the other.


To be honest, I'm not that surprised by CVG. As soon as DL announced they'd be downgrading it from a focus city to a spoke, you knew it'd be open season and that competitors would start poking the bear to gauge DL's commitment. I'm expecting DFW and SFO to go next, along with some of the Florida flying (FLL/MCO/TPA/RSW feels like overkill to me).

Considering DL made a point of talking RDU up as one the 2 focus cities they were keeping, you'd think they'd make more of an effort, even if some of these destinations might be a bit more challenging in the short term. AA already serves BNA and WAS via DCA. This is opening the door for more. IND was always a possibility IMO, now they could also dip their toe into CVG. Not sure about BDL or some of the other destinations DL dropped earlier like JAX. That's probably a stretch.
 
jplatts
Posts: 5573
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:58 pm

jbwhite99 wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:
Looks like DL is busy slashing and burning in RDU.

BDL/BNA/BWI/CVG/IND look to be gone for good.


Yeah, but Hartford, Cincinnati, and Indianapolis are definitely business destinations, and Nashville/Baltimore are Southwest strongholds, so none of these 5 are a big shock. To me, it is more of an indictment of how far Cincinnati/Covington has fallen - this is the 2nd Delta hub that RDU has lost service to - Memphis being the other.


DL had completely dehubbed MEM prior to the COVID-19 pandemic, with DL's ATL, DTW, LAX, MSP, and LGA hubs being the only destinations that DL was serving nonstop from MEM at the end of 2019. DL had recently resumed MEM-SLC nonstop service, but SLC is a hub for DL.

I can understand DL permanently dropping RDU-BDL nonstop service with the 1-stop connecting options that are there between RDU and BDL on AA (through DCA/PHL), UA (through IAD), and WN (through BWI) along with F9 currently operating less-than-daily RDU-BDL nonstop service.

I can understand DL permanently dropping RDU-BNA nonstop service with WN still serving BNA nonstop from RDU along with DL still being able to connect passengers to BNA from RDU through its ATL hub.

I can understand DL permanently dropping RDU-BWI nonstop service with WN still serving BWI nonstop from RDU, AA still serving DCA nonstop from RDU, and UA still serving IAD nonstop from RDU.
 
BangersAndMash
Posts: 637
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:21 pm

Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:53 pm

jplatts wrote:
jbwhite99 wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:
Looks like DL is busy slashing and burning in RDU.

BDL/BNA/BWI/CVG/IND look to be gone for good.


Yeah, but Hartford, Cincinnati, and Indianapolis are definitely business destinations, and Nashville/Baltimore are Southwest strongholds, so none of these 5 are a big shock. To me, it is more of an indictment of how far Cincinnati/Covington has fallen - this is the 2nd Delta hub that RDU has lost service to - Memphis being the other.


DL had completely dehubbed MEM prior to the COVID-19 pandemic, with DL's ATL, DTW, LAX, MSP, and LGA hubs being the only destinations that DL was serving nonstop from MEM at the end of 2019. DL had recently resumed MEM-SLC nonstop service, but SLC is a hub for DL.

I can understand DL permanently dropping RDU-BDL nonstop service with the 1-stop connecting options that are there between RDU and BDL on AA (through DCA/PHL), UA (through IAD), and WN (through BWI) along with F9 currently operating less-than-daily RDU-BDL nonstop service.

I can understand DL permanently dropping RDU-BNA nonstop service with WN still serving BNA nonstop from RDU along with DL still being able to connect passengers to BNA from RDU through its ATL hub.

I can understand DL permanently dropping RDU-BWI nonstop service with WN still serving BWI nonstop from RDU, AA still serving DCA nonstop from RDU, and UA still serving IAD nonstop from RDU.


That may be the case if you treat RDU as a spoke. Not if it is one of your focus cities.

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