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Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:13 pm

Welcome to the Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread 2021. Please continue to post your news and your discussion here.

Link to previous thread:

Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2020
 
Iggy500
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Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:12 pm

Happy New Year, everyone!

Here's the new/resuming service SMF has gotten so far:

AA: SJD
AS: SAN
B6: CUN
DL: DTW
F9: ONT, PHX

There might be more, so feel free to add on to the list!
 
smflyer
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Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:30 am

woohoo, what are everyone's route predictions for the year? This year is going to be weird so probably some more weird route additions. My predictions:
SMF-MCO
SMF-FLL
SMF-MIA
SMF-PVR
SMF-KOA
SMF-LIH
SMF-LAX on B6
SMF-SNA on NK
 
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MichaelR
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Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:42 am

You're continuing to get the A220-300s from SLC. I'd say that's pretty cool.
 
smflyer
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Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:52 am

MichaelR wrote:
You're continuing to get the A220-300s from SLC. I'd say that's pretty cool.


nice to see A221 to SEA and A223 to SLC daily. Rode on the A223 last month and it was definitely a very comfortable ride and the thing takes off like a rocket ship.

In other news HA is running A332 service to HNL as of today for at least the next few days according to FlightAware.
 
jplatts
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Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:51 am

smflyer wrote:
woohoo, what are everyone's route predictions for the year? This year is going to be weird so probably some more weird route additions. My predictions:
SMF-MCO
SMF-KOA
SMF-LIH


I agree that WN re-adding SMF-MCO nonstop service and adding SMF-KOA/LIH nonstop service are possibilities once demand recovers.

There are also some other adds that could be made out of SMF on WN once demand recovers such as the return of SMF-MCI/BNA nonstop service and the addition of SMF-ATL/SAT nonstop service.
 
smflyer
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Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:57 am

jplatts wrote:
smflyer wrote:
woohoo, what are everyone's route predictions for the year? This year is going to be weird so probably some more weird route additions. My predictions:
SMF-MCO
SMF-KOA
SMF-LIH


I agree that WN re-adding SMF-MCO nonstop service and adding SMF-KOA/LIH nonstop service are possibilities once demand recovers.

There are also some other adds that could be made out of SMF on WN once demand recovers such as the return of SMF-MCI/BNA nonstop service and the addition of SMF-ATL/SAT nonstop service.


Completely agree with you on the ones you mentioned, but I feel like those will start service in 2022 when the business travel market starts to recover. I think 2021 is shaping up to be a VFR and leisure heavy destination adds.

I can't wait to get my vaccine.
 
jplatts
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Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:01 am

smflyer wrote:
SMF-FLL
SMF-LAX on B6


I agree that B6 adding SMF-FLL/LAX nonstop service are possibilities with B6 already serving both FLL and LAX nonstop from other West Coast cities.
 
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bluefltspecial
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Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:06 am

Iggy500 wrote:
Happy New Year, everyone!

Here's the new/resuming service SMF has gotten so far:

AA: SJD
AS: SAN
B6: CUN
DL: DTW
F9: ONT, PHX

There might be more, so feel free to add on to the list!


Does Terminal A have FIS? I thought it was only B
Save a horse, ride a Fly-boy....
 
dolphinflyer
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Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:15 am

All international arriving flights must arrival at Terminal B for CBP/FIS clearance. The only exception is precleared flights, such as AC's YVR-SMF flights that arrive at Terminal A. International flights can depart from terminal A.
 
smflyer
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Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:42 am

bluefltspecial wrote:
Iggy500 wrote:
Happy New Year, everyone!

Here's the new/resuming service SMF has gotten so far:

AA: SJD
AS: SAN
B6: CUN
DL: DTW
F9: ONT, PHX

There might be more, so feel free to add on to the list!


Does Terminal A have FIS? I thought it was only B


Just to add to what dolphin-flyer was saying about FIS, AA currently has its SMF-SJD flight departing out of terminal A, but the SJD-SMF flight arrives in terminal B. Seems like the only issue with that would be passengers having to notify their pick up parties to go to B arrivals instead of A arrivals, but im sure at least some segment of people will inevitably get confused as the signs at the airport for AA lead to terminal A.

Now with AA and AS "partnered" up and AA operating international flights, I think its time to move AA back to terminal B!
 
dfwjim1
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Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:30 pm

jplatts wrote:
smflyer wrote:
SMF-FLL
SMF-LAX on B6


I agree that B6 adding SMF-FLL/LAX nonstop service are possibilities with B6 already serving both FLL and LAX nonstop from other West Coast cities.

SMF - FLL would be a good route once cruises get back up to speed.
 
smflyer
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Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:51 pm

United will be starting 737-9 MAX flights out of SMF in February on SMF-DEN service.

https://twitter.com/ByERussell/status/1 ... 8010654720
 
dolphinflyer
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Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:51 pm

Spirit announces daily nonstop service linking SMF and SNA beginning March 1. Schedules are as follows:
SMF-SNA 0800-0925
SNA-SNA 1805-1930
Flights are now bookable at spirit.com
 
smflyer
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Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:03 pm

dolphinflyer wrote:
Spirit announces daily nonstop service linking SMF and SNA beginning March 1. Schedules are as follows:
SMF-SNA 0800-0925
SNA-SNA 1805-1930
Flights are now bookable at spirit.com


woohoo! one of my predictions for the year came true. My bets were on F9, but looks like NK pulled through. I welcome giving WN some competition on routes they are the only carrier.
 
jplatts
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Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:21 pm

NK adding SMF-DTW nonstop service is a possibility with
(a) NK already serving DTW nonstop from other West Coast cities,
(b) NK being able to capture some of the leisure traffic going to Napa Valley, the Sierra Nevadas, Lake Tahoe, and Yosemite National Park from DTW if it adds SMF-DTW nonstop service,
(c) SMF-DTW currently lacking nonstop competition whereas most of the other US3/AS/HA nonstop routes out of SMF have nonstop competition, and
(d) the connections that NK would be able to offer to the Northeast from SMF through DTW if SMF-DTW nonstop service is added by NK.

NK adding SMF-DFW nonstop service is also a possibility with NK already serving other Western U.S. destinations nonstop from DFW.
 
LASVegan
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Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:52 pm

jplatts wrote:
NK adding SMF-DTW nonstop service is a possibility with
(a) NK already serving DTW nonstop from other West Coast cities,
(b) NK being able to capture some of the leisure traffic going to Napa Valley, the Sierra Nevadas, Lake Tahoe, and Yosemite National Park from DTW if it adds SMF-DTW nonstop service,
(c) SMF-DTW currently lacking nonstop competition whereas most of the other US3/AS/HA nonstop routes out of SMF have nonstop competition, and
(d) the connections that NK would be able to offer to the Northeast from SMF through DTW if SMF-DTW nonstop service is added by NK.

NK adding SMF-DFW nonstop service is also a possibility with NK already serving other Western U.S. destinations nonstop from DFW.


I do see some SMF expansion with NK. I know precovid they were doing quite well and the rumor was LAS going 4x daily. Hopefully travel can quickly rebound to that point. I think IAH would happen before DFW. DFW really isn't what it once was for Spirit while IAH has performed quite well. Via IAH, NK could capture pretty much all of the eastern opportunities that they have from DFW and they could connect to more latin destinations as well.

More likely I think we will more connecting the dots out west from SMF. Spirit has made several attempts to connect their western cities with not always loads of success. In the past we've seen LAX-PHX, LAX-PHX, LAS-AZA, SEA-LAX, PDX-SAN. I believe SEA-PHX, and SEA-BUR are slated to return at some point, and OAK-LAX and OAK-SNA are still operating.

I'm thinking SEA, PHX, SAN, LAX, BUR, and perhaps PDX are all possibilities from SMF.
 
dolphinflyer
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Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:48 pm

During December 2020, SMF handled 426,138 passengers, marking a 63.4% decline YoY on a 41.9% seat capacity decrease.

During CY2020, SMF handled 5,582,925 total passengers, marking a 57.6% decline YoY versus CY2019 on a 36.2% seat capacity decrease YoY.
 
smflyer
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Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:20 pm

dolphinflyer wrote:
During December 2020, SMF handled 426,138 passengers, marking a 63.4% decline YoY on a 41.9% seat capacity decrease.

During CY2020, SMF handled 5,582,925 total passengers, marking a 57.6% decline YoY versus CY2019 on a 36.2% seat capacity decrease YoY.


glad 2020 is finally over. Looks like we fared a bit better than some other cali airports percentage wise which is revealing that SMF's travel demand is a mix of business and leisure vs other airports that had greater declines such as SJC.

In other news, looks like B6 updated their march schedules to reflect the routing of their new SMF-CUN service. SMF-CUN and SMF-JFK will be running 3x weekly each and the same-plane routing will be: JFK-SMF-CUN-SMF-JFK with a RON of the aircraft at SMF after the JFK-SMF arrival.
 
NZ321
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Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:40 am

dolphinflyer wrote:
Spirit announces daily nonstop service linking SMF and SNA beginning March 1. Schedules are as follows:
SMF-SNA 0800-0925
SNA-SNA 1805-1930
Flights are now bookable at spirit.com


With all due respect the above is rather confusing; is it meant to be two a day SMF-SNA with the returns not listed, or one in each direction ?:)
Plane mad!
 
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SANFan
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Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:42 pm

NZ321 wrote:
dolphinflyer wrote:
Spirit announces daily nonstop service linking SMF and SNA beginning March 1. Schedules are as follows:
SMF-SNA 0800-0925
SNA-SNA 1805-1930
Flights are now bookable at spirit.com


With all due respect the above is rather confusing; is it meant to be two a day SMF-SNA with the returns not listed, or one in each direction ?:)

Respectfully, it's not confusing at all. I suspect NK is simply adding a r/t between SNA and SMF prolly to park the plane overnight in SMF rather than at SNA. The plane will start its day in SMF, fly down to SNA and begin a day of flying. It, or another plane, arrives in SNA ~ 5-something-pm and swings up to SMF for its RON. That would be my guess.

bb
 
classicjets
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Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:51 am

It's confusing because it says they're planning a SNA-SNA flight. That said, I agree that SANFan's explanation makes sense

Sent from my ELE-L29 using Tapatalk
 
williaminsd
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Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:39 pm

Hello all,

Nice to be back from probation. Lots to talk about, most of it brutal, but with a light at the end of the runway.

As far as our predictions/wish lists for 2020… COVID made them all moot. Real tragedy too as January and February 2020 were up at most airports and the year appeared on track for record numbers.

As noted above, SMF finished the year at just over 5.8 million pax. The last time the count was below that total was… 1993!

Good news is flights and traffic are inching back up across the board. Not just for SMF, but for the country in general. As shown by the Flightradar weekly look ahead, SMF will see over 600 flights next week and remains, as it has through the pandemic, the 4th busiest airport in California.

Here are the Flightradar numbers as of today…

Today – Mid-September/August/July/June

LAX – 3090 (2660) (2839) (2712) (1831)
PHX – 2498 (2191) (2249)
LAS – 1781 (1879) (2227) (2096) (1224)
SFO – 1520 (1656) (1729) (1715) (1073)
SAN – 794 (798) (1050) (1011) (583)
SMF – 611* (582) (640) (670) (502) *Down from 710+ in December 2020.
SJC – 538 (497) (575) (675) (507)
OAK – 525 (518) (558) (644) (412)
SNA – 489 (410) (498) (499) (339)
PSP – 332
ONT – 296 (281) (312) (311) (271)
RNO – 285 (259) (298) (238) (158)
BUR – 182 (245) (269) (295) (194)
FAT – 168 (143) (145) (106)
LGB – 150 (139) (93) (128) (77)
SBA – 87 (82) (81) (67) (48)
MRY – 46 (60) (57) (46) (42)
BFL – 42 (37) (40) (42) (28)

All signs suggest we’ll bottom-out on flight counts this month as the vaccine gets further distributed and positive results begin to build. Combined with the traditional low traffic in January and February, March/April should see some significant gains.

So far, we’ve seen some positive trends at SMF as flights return and new flights start or are announced.

Of particular note is surprisingly strong service to Mexico with Volaris being the darling of SMF’s international travel with service to four Mexican airports and new service to Mexico City flights starting in November. All together five airlines now offer service to Mexico from SMF with some days boasting eight flights as recently as early this month. Most I see for the coming months is six, but that’s still impressive all things considered.

Volaris, with its additional flights, is at nearly 70% of 2019’s record totals. While Mexico traffic is relatively robust, the return of Air Canada to Vancouver remains problematic with Canada’s severe COVID protocols remaining in place and no clear word on any type of easing. You may recall AC had scheduled an additional roundtrip last summer, so the hit to international traffic counts at SMF was significant. My best-case return for Air Canada is May 2021, but it could easily be April… of 2022!

Overall, international traffic was down nearly 50% in 2020.

As noted, domestic traffic was off nearly 58% in the CY, not as bad as many, but still devastating.

Some rays of light include JetBlue reinstating flights to JFK in October and still running 2x/week through the end of March. Starting March 28, B6 shows 2x/day to JFK with a redeye 4x/week and a daily afternoon flight. Boston returns 4/28. And of course the big news is Cancun, which as noted above starts 3x/week in March. I can’t imagine anyone saw that coming...

Speaking of New York, United still shows its redeye to EWR returning March 4, as well as its morning flight to Washington-Dulles that same day. Houston (IAH) is 2x/day, all mainline.

While I don’t know when we’ll see the pre-COVID Hawaii service return, it has come back strong with 4 flights most days; two each to Honolulu and Maui on Hawaiian and Southwest.

Delta has Atlanta back at 3x/day most days, including a redeye, all 757 service.

American DFW is 4x or 5x day.

Southwest remains strong with better than 80 flights a day expected by summer.

Both the ULCCs are expanding, with Spirit to SNA and Frontier adding Phoenix and Ontario.

Alaska is slowly ramping back up and has resumed daily BOI service. They’re also vigorously protecting their home turf and go to 8/x day to SEA this summer. And of particular note to me, SMF-SAN resumes April 4 @ 3x/day and go to 4x/day in June. The times are perfect for business too with departures at 8:00, 11:00, 2:00 and 6:00.

And yes, I am on the first flight out of SAN that Sunday morning just to celebrate.

Late night is no longer a ghost town with often 5 flights or more leaving after 10:00. At the worst, nothing was leaving after 7:00. I still don’t understand the Boutique Air schedule with a daily midnight arrival and 6am departure. It has an afternoon rotation too, but there must be some sort of requirement for their service that forces it to RON.

Cargo remained strong all through the pandemic and continues with nearly 22% growth in 2020. (Mather, the regional hub for UPS, was up 7.5%)

What could be in store for 2021?

I think American moving to Terminal B makes perfect sense with the increasingly strong relationship with Alaska. We’ve talked about it before, but the logistics are even more manageable with the downturn in traffic. And with Alaska showing 8/x day this summer to Seattle, where American is creating an international gateway, I’m surprised it hasn’t already been announced. They can’t be counting on all O&D for that capacity.

Despite the recently announced additional restrictions for travel to/from Mexico, I think PVR is in the cards for 2021. Spirit to DTW is a good call. Spirit is exploring many options system-wide and this seems like a natural. I know some have seen DL retuning to SMF-DTW this year, but I don’t see it loaded yet.

I don’t see B6 to FLL until it gets more A220s in service. Maybe announced this year with service starting in 2022.

Does SY return? I don't see it, at least not this year…

I think on the optimistic side, we can look for SMF to get in the 8-9 million range in 2021 with a couple more route announcements completely unexpected. The bounce-back is going to be a bit more sluggish than I would have hoped, but YOY growth will be significant, especially for SMF.

On a side note, many of you know I stopped playing the COVID fear game in May and, with the exception of December 2020, have flown regularly every month since.

My first flight this year was last week to Phoenix on American, and I’m taking a quick trip to SJC this Friday on Alaska. From May through November of 2020, I flew 13 roundtrips and 19 segments. I never experienced so much as a sniffle.

Just lucky I guess…
In the land of lies, telling the truth is a crime...
 
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SANFan
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Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:33 pm

classicjets wrote:
It's confusing because it says they're planning a SNA-SNA flight. That said, I agree that SANFan's explanation makes sense.

I'm sorry classic'; I didn't notice that the post said "SNA-SNA" -- I saw it as "SNA-SMF". I'd bet a buck that it was just a typo. The confusion now makes sense!

bb
 
sprxUSA
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Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:45 pm

I doubt WN will have anywhere near 80 flights/day in summer. Have to wait until they put in the realistic sched as opposed to the optimistic sched they have in the system now.
Gem State Airlines..."we have a gem of an airline"
 
smflyer
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Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:13 am

I think AA and AS co-locating into the same terminal would be beneficial for the reasons you mentioned, but unlikely to happen in the near term for a few reasons. AA could move over to B, but this would mean some of the B carriers would have to move over to A (NK, HA, B6) to make room for 3 gates. Problem with A is that it doesn't have that much check in counter space like B does and having 3 new airlines move into A would make for a horrible check in experience. Additionally, HA does still operate A332 on occasion and I'm not sure if any of the A gates there can handle such an aircraft. I know A3-5 can handle the 767, but im not sure if they are wide enough for the A332 without re-paint. However, having NK HA and B6 over at A would decrease traffic during peak security screening time during 5-7AM as none of those carriers have their RON flight leaving first thing in the morning. This would help smooth out peak security line waits.

Another idea would be to simply move just NK and B6 over to terminal A and HA remain as is. AA could utilize the two international gates during the daytime as those gates are largely unutilized until the Mexican flights arrive in the late evening. This would mean AA can have up to 4 gates in the morning while AS maintains their current 3. However this would mean AA would be short 2 gates in the evening and during pre-pandemic times, they did operate daily red-eyes to DFW and CLT. This could result in issues with several inbound AA aircraft waiting for gate space while red-eyes are loading. This could be alleviated by moving some of the AS aircraft to RON spaces as AS largely didn't have departures past 8:30ish PM pre-covid. This scenario can work well, but may seem to be a sort of a logistical headache to whomever has to play airplane musical chairs.

The most likely scenario I think will be AS and AA will maintain status quo for the time being until the airport adds the 3 additional gates on the east end of terminal B once passenger traffic recovers to a sufficient level that this project would be necessary. This would mean AA gets 3 unencumbered gates while also allowing UA and DL over at terminal A to have room to expand as needed. AA/AS would be able to expand to additional gates as one or two of the B tenants needs to expand to more gates and terminal A may be a better option for them.

I dont see AS moving to terminal A due to lack of space and inefficient use of gate space if Q400s were moved over. Currently 2 Q400s can fit into gate B5 since it is so wide.
 
Wingtips56
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Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:47 am

I remember the future plan for Terminal A back when it opened was it was designed to fairly easily extend the ticketing area to the East, beyond the then Southwest counter, as well as the short then HP/DL/HA concourse. Is it time? Is that more likely or cheaper than extending the new B concourse?
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

Home airport : CEC
 
CATIIIevery5yrs
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Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:43 pm

Is the NK SMF SNA service done before it ever began?
 
dolphinflyer
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Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:08 pm

CATIIIevery5yrs wrote:
Is the NK SMF SNA service done before it ever began?


No, the launch date is deferred one month to comply with SNA slot passenger volume limits. Daily flights begin April 1.
 
CATIIIevery5yrs
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Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:10 pm

dolphinflyer wrote:
CATIIIevery5yrs wrote:
Is the NK SMF SNA service done before it ever began?


No, the launch date is deferred one month to comply with SNA slot passenger volume limits. Daily flights begin April 1.


Makes sense. Thanks!
 
smflyer
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Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:20 am

Wingtips56 wrote:
I remember the future plan for Terminal A back when it opened was it was designed to fairly easily extend the ticketing area to the East, beyond the then Southwest counter, as well as the short then HP/DL/HA concourse. Is it time? Is that more likely or cheaper than extending the new B concourse?


You are correct that terminal A was designed to be eventually expanded as traffic grew. However, after 9/11, the amount of space and time required for security screening for passengers dramatically increased. The security checkpoint at the original configuration did not have enough throughput per hour post 9/11 to keep up with the growth the airport has been undergoing over the past few years. The airport has had to expand the security checkpoint by encroaching into one of the retail spaces in terminal A as the exit point out of the terminal to make space for more security lanes. Additionally more floor space was created before security to hold long queue of passengers that would often back up to the parking garage in the morning. These little fixes have helped alleviate the congestion at terminal A's current configuration of 13 gates. Adding additional gates at this point would intensify that issue. This is the reason why the airport chose to create the new terminal B as big as it is because they couldn't add more gates to terminal A. Also it wouldn't really make sense to expand ticketing area in terminal A when terminal B ticketing area is largely underutilized. This would mean keeping airlines with a fairly large presence at terminal A while keeping all other smaller airlines over at B so counter space is preserved at A. This unfortunately means it would be hard to move AA over to B for the reason they would have to move multiple airlines over to A which doesn't have the counter space to accommodate that many airlines. My best bet would be that the airport remains status quo as far as location of AS and AA for now. I don't see AA moving to terminal B until terminal B's east wing is expanded by 3 gates. By the time that happens, at least one of the other terminal B tenants will be large enough to take over AA's former terminal A footprint. NK or F9 grows to need 2-3 gates? My guess is that the eastern portion of terminal B expansion would be earmarked when the airport achieves 14mil pass/year for completion by 16mil pass/yr time frame. So I dont see this really happening until at least 2025 or beyond.
 
kfinger
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Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 08, 2021 4:31 am

What's the likelihood that smaller CA stations like ACV, SBA, SBP, PSP, BFL get service to SMF again this year?
 
ericm2031
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Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:20 am

kfinger wrote:
What's the likelihood that smaller CA stations like ACV, SBA, SBP, PSP, BFL get service to SMF again this year?


I would give SBA and PSP better chances as they had service to SMF pre-COVID by LF. Although I wouldn’t be surprised if WN jumped on one or both of those.
 
Wingtips56
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Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:02 am

Just thinking out loud, LF would be the most likely to make a go of these with the right size aircraft. Anything WN flies would be too big. An E170 (AA*/DL*), Q400 or OO-operated CR2 (for whomever) might work for PSP or SBA, but I still think too big. The Q400 was too big when QX tried SMF-SBA and probably still is. Very likely too big for ACV (please, add a tag to CEC!), BFL and SBP, so LF seems the most realistic if they can come back from EAS-only flying post-Covid-19.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

Home airport : CEC
 
kfinger
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:03 pm

Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:38 pm

I called Contour last night and they said they don't have any immediate plans to resume service out of SMF.
 
Wingtips56
Posts: 1354
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:26 am

Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:49 pm

kfinger wrote:
I called Contour last night and they said they don't have any immediate plans to resume service out of SMF.

Too bad, but not surprising. I'm sure they want to wait out Covid before resuming unsubsidized/mandated flying.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

Home airport : CEC
 
Jetcentric
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:46 am

Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:30 pm

Howdy!
Do any SMF’ers know what the purpose of the sub-gate that you can see on Google Maps at Gate B6?

I would assume that’s for a small prop operator, but I know Boutique parks at B8.

Thanks!
 
williaminsd
Posts: 399
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:52 pm

Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 10, 2021 2:43 pm

Quick note... 737Max returns to SMF starting this Friday, February 12 as United Flight #440, the early morning departure for DEN that leaves at 5:30. This has been operating as a 737-900.

Same aircraft (N47517) returns to SMF from DEN that night as #248 @ 9:20. UA 248 is also the first SMF MAX9 arrival on 2/11, originating in Ft Myers, FL (RSW) as UA #410.
In the land of lies, telling the truth is a crime...
 
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terence757
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:54 pm

Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 10, 2021 7:15 pm

Looks like a Southwest MAX 8 flew up from LAX this morning. I'm assuming this is a training flight.
 
williaminsd
Posts: 399
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:52 pm

Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 10, 2021 7:32 pm

terence757 wrote:
Looks like a Southwest MAX 8 flew up from LAX this morning. I'm assuming this is a training flight.


You're right! WN #8501... up from LAX, then off to PHX @ 9:16. Now scheduled to depart PHX @ 12:30 for a return to LAX.

I think flight #s in the 8000 designate training, charter or otherwise special flights, but don't know for sure. I don't see another WN Max coming in before tomorrow, nor is there another #8501, so your assumption could be spot on.
In the land of lies, telling the truth is a crime...
 
smflyer
Posts: 303
Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 4:44 pm

Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:50 am

Jetcentric wrote:
Howdy!
Do any SMF’ers know what the purpose of the sub-gate that you can see on Google Maps at Gate B6?

I would assume that’s for a small prop operator, but I know Boutique parks at B8.

Thanks!


Looking at google maps historical imagery, it appears that little sub-gate you are talking about was painted sometime between 2014-2015. This lines up with the time when SeaPort airlines operated service out of SMF to VIS (Visalia, CA) as I found a press release from the airport in 2015 regarding their service: https://sacramento.aero/scas/about/news ... sacramento. I believe that they operated Cessna Caravans. I don't think Contour or Boutique had started service yet at the time, so SeaPort appears to be the most likely airline that would've operated out of that gate configuration. If I remember correctly, they also operated once a day around noon right in between JetBlues morning and afternoon service to LGB.
 
smflyer
Posts: 303
Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 4:44 pm

Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:53 am

williaminsd wrote:
terence757 wrote:
Looks like a Southwest MAX 8 flew up from LAX this morning. I'm assuming this is a training flight.


You're right! WN #8501... up from LAX, then off to PHX @ 9:16. Now scheduled to depart PHX @ 12:30 for a return to LAX.

I think flight #s in the 8000 designate training, charter or otherwise special flights, but don't know for sure. I don't see another WN Max coming in before tomorrow, nor is there another #8501, so your assumption could be spot on.


I do agree this does appear to be training flighting. Maybe they are doing training flights to airports that will see a lot of MAX service such as those that will be serving Hawaii. I guess this helps to re-train the ground staff for the airport since the plane has been absent for nearly 2 years now.
 
Jetcentric
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:46 am

Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:24 am

smflyer wrote:
Jetcentric wrote:
Howdy!
Do any SMF’ers know what the purpose of the sub-gate that you can see on Google Maps at Gate B6?

I would assume that’s for a small prop operator, but I know Boutique parks at B8.

Thanks!


Looking at google maps historical imagery, it appears that little sub-gate you are talking about was painted sometime between 2014-2015. This lines up with the time when SeaPort airlines operated service out of SMF to VIS (Visalia, CA) as I found a press release from the airport in 2015 regarding their service: https://sacramento.aero/scas/about/news ... sacramento. I believe that they operated Cessna Caravans. I don't think Contour or Boutique had started service yet at the time, so SeaPort appears to be the most likely airline that would've operated out of that gate configuration. If I remember correctly, they also operated once a day around noon right in between JetBlues morning and afternoon service to LGB.




Thanks for the great info, I remember seeing it a few years back.

I love those little gates for small prop operators
 
smflyer
Posts: 303
Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 4:44 pm

Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:35 am

AA1930 operating PHX-SMF tonight appears to be an A321neo. First time I've seen AA send a Neo to SMF. Will RON overnight to operate SMF-PHX tomorrow AM.
 
smflyer
Posts: 303
Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 4:44 pm

Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:35 pm

Looks like AA1930 for this evening is scheduled with A321neo again and also scheduled for tomorrow. Looks like we will be having AA A321neo service on the regular! That makes AA and HA regular A321neo operators out of SMF with NK and F9 randomly scheduling A320neos on their flights.

In other new plane news, looks like UA is scheduled to have regularly scheduled 737-9 max back in service out of SMF on the SMF-DEN service. First flight will be arriving tonight at 9:20PM, RON overnight and head back to DEN at 5:30AM tomorrow.
 
irishpower
Posts: 413
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 2:18 am

Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:22 pm

I realize this is still probably years away (if at all) but will SMF ever see direct service to Asia/Europe? If so where and which airline is most likely?

I know the proximity to OAK,SFO and SJC hinder the chances but what are the chances? Will SMF have to extend a runway to make it happen?

Thoughts?
 
dolphinflyer
Posts: 337
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 9:57 pm

Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:38 pm

Boeing 763ERs, 787-8/-9s and Airbus A330/A350s are able to operate nonstop to/from closer points in Europe and Asia (LHR/CDG/FRA/NRT/ICN/PVG) using SMF's existing dual 8,600 ft runways - especially considering the area is flat and there are no obstructions at either ends of the runways. While it would be nice to extend one of the runways to 10,000 ft for added safe measure, it is not an operational necessity. SMF is an ideal gateway airport to NorCal and provides convenient, easy access to Wine Country (Napa/Sonoma/Amador/El Dorado), Lake Tahoe and even Yosemite (3-hour drive south). Eventually there will be nonstop flights to Europe and Asia, but this Covid pandemic and subsequent traffic retrenchment has pushed back that effort by a good 3-5 years.
 
smflyer
Posts: 303
Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 4:44 pm

Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 12, 2021 1:47 am

irishpower wrote:
I realize this is still probably years away (if at all) but will SMF ever see direct service to Asia/Europe? If so where and which airline is most likely?

I know the proximity to OAK,SFO and SJC hinder the chances but what are the chances? Will SMF have to extend a runway to make it happen?

Thoughts?


The proximity of SF Bay Area is definitely a hinderance to seeing transatlantic or transpacific service, but other major hinderances to consider is the lack of multinational companies with a large presence in Sacramento (other than Intel?), and the lack of SMF being seen as tourist destination. Large international airlines like British, Air France, Lufthansa chase yield more than market demand. So even though SMF may have enough demand to fill up the economy section of a 777 to Europe daily, it may not have enough demand to fill the business class section of wide body aircraft that typically fill up more than half of the available square footage of aircraft. The other downside of SMF is that the market has very little international draw as a destination. Others may point to Napa/Tahoe/Yosemite as draws to the region, but those places are already serviceable from the SFO market and SMF has no advantage over that regard other than maybe less traffic to your destination. But if you are coming to Northern California on vacation, why wouldn't you want to start your trip in world class San Francisco and then move outwards? Additionally, SFO is also well served with international carriers meaning prices are generally competitive in economy class so having a full fare to SMF vs discounted SFO ticket available would make more travelers drawn to SFO.

I think SMF will get trans-at/pac flights in the future, but I dont see it happening anytime in the near future, I would predict sometime later in this decade.
 
smflyer
Posts: 303
Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 4:44 pm

Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:10 am

Whats up with AS operating 5x daily 739s to SEA? Isn't that their normal non-COVID frequency and capacity on this route? Are they dumping seats on this route to keep WN and DL at bay? Or is demand to SEA suddenly surging? (doubt that)
 
flyfresno
Posts: 1297
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Sacramento (SMF) Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:57 am

smflyer wrote:
irishpower wrote:
I realize this is still probably years away (if at all) but will SMF ever see direct service to Asia/Europe? If so where and which airline is most likely?

I know the proximity to OAK,SFO and SJC hinder the chances but what are the chances? Will SMF have to extend a runway to make it happen?

Thoughts?


The proximity of SF Bay Area is definitely a hinderance to seeing transatlantic or transpacific service, but other major hinderances to consider is the lack of multinational companies with a large presence in Sacramento (other than Intel?), and the lack of SMF being seen as tourist destination. Large international airlines like British, Air France, Lufthansa chase yield more than market demand. So even though SMF may have enough demand to fill up the economy section of a 777 to Europe daily, it may not have enough demand to fill the business class section of wide body aircraft that typically fill up more than half of the available square footage of aircraft. The other downside of SMF is that the market has very little international draw as a destination. Others may point to Napa/Tahoe/Yosemite as draws to the region, but those places are already serviceable from the SFO market and SMF has no advantage over that regard other than maybe less traffic to your destination. But if you are coming to Northern California on vacation, why wouldn't you want to start your trip in world class San Francisco and then move outwards? Additionally, SFO is also well served with international carriers meaning prices are generally competitive in economy class so having a full fare to SMF vs discounted SFO ticket available would make more travelers drawn to SFO.

I think SMF will get trans-at/pac flights in the future, but I dont see it happening anytime in the near future, I would predict sometime later in this decade.


I think the best chance SMF has is the sort of service we've seen in places like OAK & SWF and/or STL & CLE: ULC carriers like Norwegian and WOW (and carriers like that will be back eventually) that serve mostly leisure passengers and are looking for mid-major cities that don't have transoceanic flights (like STL and CLE) and/or reliever airports to a region.

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