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marcogr12
Posts: 602
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:36 pm

Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:09 pm

AF has uploaded CDG-CFU and CDG-RHO, starting 7 and 5 July respectively all 4w

FR is adding MXP-JTR,ZTH 2w (i wrote MXP-CFU yesterday) and enhancing frequencies on MXP-HER to 4w
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5869
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:14 pm

Is Fraport giving incentives to fly to those islands? The number of new routes is INSANE.
 
Blerg
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Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:01 am

Brilliant news! Serbia and Greece signed an agreement where all vaccinated Serbs will be allowed to enter Greece starting from 14.05.2021.
Greece will accept all vaccines including the Chinese and Russian ones even though Brussels adopted a different stance.

In 2019 there were 1.1 million tourists from Serbia who visited Greece making them the 9th biggest group. I expect air travel to boom between the two countries now especially since Serbs can't enter the EU with the exception of Bulgaria.

http://www.politika.rs/scc/clanak/47591 ... ivan-test#
 
OlympicATH
Posts: 257
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2001 8:43 am

Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:36 pm

As an update, Aegean got some additional LHR slots as part of the latest allocation. From August onwards the following flights have been loaded:
-3 daily ATH
-Daily HER (new slots)
-3 weekly SKG (new slots)
-3 weekly JTR (new slots)

This is a great development and in particular the SKG flights are a welcome addition.

That being said, the slots are valid August 2nd to October 30th are likely not permanent. The UK’s Secretary of State for Transport recently extend the waiver from the 80:20 slot usage rule to the Summer 2021 season so it looks like this is just the unused slots being redistributed for this season. We'll have to wait for the winter season (and next summer) to see what happens with unused legacy slots.

Looks like SkyExpress got some LHR slots as well but no flights have been loaded as of now.
 
Blerg
Posts: 4813
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:22 pm

OlympicATH wrote:
As an update, Aegean got some additional LHR slots as part of the latest allocation. From August onwards the following flights have been loaded:
-3 daily ATH
-Daily HER (new slots)
-3 weekly SKG (new slots)
-3 weekly JTR (new slots)

This is a great development and in particular the SKG flights are a welcome addition.

That being said, the slots are valid August 2nd to October 30th are likely not permanent. The UK’s Secretary of State for Transport recently extend the waiver from the 80:20 slot usage rule to the Summer 2021 season so it looks like this is just the unused slots being redistributed for this season. We'll have to wait for the winter season (and next summer) to see what happens with unused legacy slots.

Looks like SkyExpress got some LHR slots as well but no flights have been loaded as of now.


HER is definitely impressive. Is there a Cretan diaspora in London or will these be exclusively for tourists?
 
OlympicATH
Posts: 257
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2001 8:43 am

Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:16 pm

Blerg wrote:
HER is definitely impressive. Is there a Cretan diaspora in London or will these be exclusively for tourists?


It's largely about tourists.
HER is Aegean's second largest base in the summer. They have a pretty sizeable operation and it's been like that for a few years. I'm pretty sure they've operated daily flights to London in recent years, but to LGW.
These are the destinations with scheduled Aegean flights from HER this summer: BER, BOD, BES, DOL, DUS, FRA, GVA, LCA, LHR, LYS, MRS, ETZ, MXP, DME, MUC, CDG, PRG, TLV, TLS, VIE, WAW, ZRH.
 
marcogr12
Posts: 602
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:36 pm

Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:54 pm

OlympicATH wrote:
As an update, Aegean got some additional LHR slots as part of the latest allocation. From August onwards the following flights have been loaded:
-3 daily ATH
-Daily HER (new slots)
-3 weekly SKG (new slots)
-3 weekly JTR (new slots)

This is a great development and in particular the SKG flights are a welcome addition.

That being said, the slots are valid August 2nd to October 30th are likely not permanent. The UK’s Secretary of State for Transport recently extend the waiver from the 80:20 slot usage rule to the Summer 2021 season so it looks like this is just the unused slots being redistributed for this season. We'll have to wait for the winter season (and next summer) to see what happens with unused legacy slots.

Looks like SkyExpress got some LHR slots as well but no flights have been loaded as of now.


The new flights to LHR start from May, how are the LHR slots valid from August?
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
Blerg
Posts: 4813
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:05 pm

OlympicATH wrote:
Blerg wrote:
HER is definitely impressive. Is there a Cretan diaspora in London or will these be exclusively for tourists?


It's largely about tourists.
HER is Aegean's second largest base in the summer. They have a pretty sizeable operation and it's been like that for a few years. I'm pretty sure they've operated daily flights to London in recent years, but to LGW.
These are the destinations with scheduled Aegean flights from HER this summer: BER, BOD, BES, DOL, DUS, FRA, GVA, LCA, LHR, LYS, MRS, ETZ, MXP, DME, MUC, CDG, PRG, TLV, TLS, VIE, WAW, ZRH.


From what I remember LCA was operated with the plane that was based in Cyprus. I don't know what's the status of their mini base there now that Wizz Air moved in. Such a shame A3 never managed to make CY work outside Greek and Israeli flights.
 
OlympicATH
Posts: 257
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2001 8:43 am

Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:54 pm

marcogr12 wrote:
The new flights to LHR start from May, how are the LHR slots valid from August?


Apologies, mixed things up.
This is indeed for the entire summer season it seems.
 
OlympicATH
Posts: 257
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Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:11 pm

Blerg wrote:
From what I remember LCA was operated with the plane that was based in Cyprus. I don't know what's the status of their mini base there now that Wizz Air moved in. Such a shame A3 never managed to make CY work outside Greek and Israeli flights.


They still maintain a base in Larnaca for their flights to Greece and TLV. Not sure if it’s one or two aircraft.
The base reached its peak around the middle of the previous decade with four aircraft.
The issue with Cyprus is that it’s a highly seasonal and low yielding market with a strong LCC presence. Aegean tried to make it work but timing was also not great as they also faced the aggressive expansion of Cobalt and to a lesser extent the new Cyprus Airways pretty much simultaneously. They were smart to give up and focus on the stronger and larger Greek market.
On LHR more specifically they’ve said that the main reason was the very high cost associated with leasing the slots (from Virgin, I believe). This, combined with lower than expected yields, didn’t make the route viable. I flew the route a couple of times and it was full but a full flight doesn’t mean a profitable one.
Aegean might give Cyprus another shot in a few years but for now they’re busy in ATH and the smaller bases in Greece (including the recent expansion in SKG).
 
marcogr12
Posts: 602
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:36 pm

Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:58 pm

OlympicATH wrote:
Blerg wrote:
From what I remember LCA was operated with the plane that was based in Cyprus. I don't know what's the status of their mini base there now that Wizz Air moved in. Such a shame A3 never managed to make CY work outside Greek and Israeli flights.


They still maintain a base in Larnaca for their flights to Greece and TLV. Not sure if it’s one or two aircraft.
The base reached its peak around the middle of the previous decade with four aircraft.
The issue with Cyprus is that it’s a highly seasonal and low yielding market with a strong LCC presence. Aegean tried to make it work but timing was also not great as they also faced the aggressive expansion of Cobalt and to a lesser extent the new Cyprus Airways pretty much simultaneously. They were smart to give up and focus on the stronger and larger Greek market.
On LHR more specifically they’ve said that the main reason was the very high cost associated with leasing the slots (from Virgin, I believe). This, combined with lower than expected yields, didn’t make the route viable. I flew the route a couple of times and it was full but a full flight doesn’t mean a profitable one.
Aegean might give Cyprus another shot in a few years but for now they’re busy in ATH and the smaller bases in Greece (including the recent expansion in SKG).


The irony of it all is that after Cobalt collapsed , then Blue Air closed its base, TCX collapsed, CY cut down on flights covid et al ..so basically LHR is left all to BA, U2 has the lion's share from LGW and Jet2 was smart to expand rapidly from all over UK..Then Wizzair came and everything changed..It's a shame that Easyjet never took the opportunity to do what Wizz did, having such a strong brand name in Europe and all the more because of Stelios' origin, and Wizz beat them to it, just like FR beat U2 in setting up bases and expanding in Greece..
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
debonair
Posts: 4208
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Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:03 am

Don't worry, not all is lost yet, ElaAir fka TUS Airways just took delivery of 5B-DDK/msn 2291. Let's hope for the best! :bigthumbsup:
 
Blerg
Posts: 4813
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:10 am

marcogr12 wrote:
OlympicATH wrote:
Blerg wrote:
From what I remember LCA was operated with the plane that was based in Cyprus. I don't know what's the status of their mini base there now that Wizz Air moved in. Such a shame A3 never managed to make CY work outside Greek and Israeli flights.


They still maintain a base in Larnaca for their flights to Greece and TLV. Not sure if it’s one or two aircraft.
The base reached its peak around the middle of the previous decade with four aircraft.
The issue with Cyprus is that it’s a highly seasonal and low yielding market with a strong LCC presence. Aegean tried to make it work but timing was also not great as they also faced the aggressive expansion of Cobalt and to a lesser extent the new Cyprus Airways pretty much simultaneously. They were smart to give up and focus on the stronger and larger Greek market.
On LHR more specifically they’ve said that the main reason was the very high cost associated with leasing the slots (from Virgin, I believe). This, combined with lower than expected yields, didn’t make the route viable. I flew the route a couple of times and it was full but a full flight doesn’t mean a profitable one.
Aegean might give Cyprus another shot in a few years but for now they’re busy in ATH and the smaller bases in Greece (including the recent expansion in SKG).


The irony of it all is that after Cobalt collapsed , then Blue Air closed its base, TCX collapsed, CY cut down on flights covid et al ..so basically LHR is left all to BA, U2 has the lion's share from LGW and Jet2 was smart to expand rapidly from all over UK..Then Wizzair came and everything changed..It's a shame that Easyjet never took the opportunity to do what Wizz did, having such a strong brand name in Europe and all the more because of Stelios' origin, and Wizz beat them to it, just like FR beat U2 in setting up bases and expanding in Greece..


I lived in Cyprus when Aegean was in full swing and actually their stagnation and decline started before Cobalt. I don't think they ever knew what exactly they wanted from the Cypriot market. Sure the market is seasonal but even in winter the airport has an ok number of passengers to make it work. For example if we take 2019 as an indicator, these were the slowest months from LCA:

February 301.000
December 374.000
November 448.000

Even with these modest numbers they could sustain some sort of normal operation. They used to fly to London, Paris, Kiev, as well as Tel Aviv and I think Beirut at the height of their presence in LCA. They used to offer connecting flights between these cities.
One by one these cities were cut. There was very little marketing and many destinations had awkward hours. For example CDG used to arrive to LCA at around 03.20. Their TLV flights would depart late at night and arrive in the middle of the night to TLV. They never tried to enter the charter market in Cyprus despite having an extensive network from other Greek islands.

In the end the market moved on and Aegean became obsolete. They did maintain their presence in Tel Aviv in addition to LCA-ATH/SKG flights, of course.

As for Wizz Air, I guess we will have to wait and see what becomes of them. One of the biggest problems with Cyprus is that most of Europe is far away. Closest non-Greek capital is Sofia which is 01.50 away. London is close to 5 hours, Paris 4 and so on.
 
marcogr12
Posts: 602
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:36 pm

Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:29 am

Blerg wrote:
marcogr12 wrote:
OlympicATH wrote:

They still maintain a base in Larnaca for their flights to Greece and TLV. Not sure if it’s one or two aircraft.
The base reached its peak around the middle of the previous decade with four aircraft.
The issue with Cyprus is that it’s a highly seasonal and low yielding market with a strong LCC presence. Aegean tried to make it work but timing was also not great as they also faced the aggressive expansion of Cobalt and to a lesser extent the new Cyprus Airways pretty much simultaneously. They were smart to give up and focus on the stronger and larger Greek market.
On LHR more specifically they’ve said that the main reason was the very high cost associated with leasing the slots (from Virgin, I believe). This, combined with lower than expected yields, didn’t make the route viable. I flew the route a couple of times and it was full but a full flight doesn’t mean a profitable one.
Aegean might give Cyprus another shot in a few years but for now they’re busy in ATH and the smaller bases in Greece (including the recent expansion in SKG).


The irony of it all is that after Cobalt collapsed , then Blue Air closed its base, TCX collapsed, CY cut down on flights covid et al ..so basically LHR is left all to BA, U2 has the lion's share from LGW and Jet2 was smart to expand rapidly from all over UK..Then Wizzair came and everything changed..It's a shame that Easyjet never took the opportunity to do what Wizz did, having such a strong brand name in Europe and all the more because of Stelios' origin, and Wizz beat them to it, just like FR beat U2 in setting up bases and expanding in Greece..


I lived in Cyprus when Aegean was in full swing and actually their stagnation and decline started before Cobalt. I don't think they ever knew what exactly they wanted from the Cypriot market. Sure the market is seasonal but even in winter the airport has an ok number of passengers to make it work. For example if we take 2019 as an indicator, these were the slowest months from LCA:

February 301.000
December 374.000
November 448.000

Even with these modest numbers they could sustain some sort of normal operation. They used to fly to London, Paris, Kiev, as well as Tel Aviv and I think Beirut at the height of their presence in LCA. They used to offer connecting flights between these cities.
One by one these cities were cut. There was very little marketing and many destinations had awkward hours. For example CDG used to arrive to LCA at around 03.20. Their TLV flights would depart late at night and arrive in the middle of the night to TLV. They never tried to enter the charter market in Cyprus despite having an extensive network from other Greek islands.

In the end the market moved on and Aegean became obsolete. They did maintain their presence in Tel Aviv in addition to LCA-ATH/SKG flights, of course.

As for Wizz Air, I guess we will have to wait and see what becomes of them. One of the biggest problems with Cyprus is that most of Europe is far away. Closest non-Greek capital is Sofia which is 01.50 away. London is close to 5 hours, Paris 4 and so on.


You are right about the distance..Closest are balkan cities and TLV..On the other hand, the Canary islands, inspite of their being 3-5hrs away from most european cities, they have managed to attract dozens of winter flights with the help of LCCs/Charters, sth that Cyprus hasn't done so far..
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
marcogr12
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Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:33 am

Aegean also got LHR slots for JMK-LHR, 3w, starting 19th of June..So JMK will be connected by both A3 and BA to LHR, with U2 to LGW,LTN, Jet2 to STN, BA to LCY..Now only SEN is missing :)
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
Blerg
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Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:45 am

Starting from June Wizz Air will be launching two new routes from Belgrade to Greece. These are Santorini and Heraklion. Both will operate twice per week.

Flights are already in the system.
 
Blerg
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Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:50 am

marcogr12 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
marcogr12 wrote:

The irony of it all is that after Cobalt collapsed , then Blue Air closed its base, TCX collapsed, CY cut down on flights covid et al ..so basically LHR is left all to BA, U2 has the lion's share from LGW and Jet2 was smart to expand rapidly from all over UK..Then Wizzair came and everything changed..It's a shame that Easyjet never took the opportunity to do what Wizz did, having such a strong brand name in Europe and all the more because of Stelios' origin, and Wizz beat them to it, just like FR beat U2 in setting up bases and expanding in Greece..


I lived in Cyprus when Aegean was in full swing and actually their stagnation and decline started before Cobalt. I don't think they ever knew what exactly they wanted from the Cypriot market. Sure the market is seasonal but even in winter the airport has an ok number of passengers to make it work. For example if we take 2019 as an indicator, these were the slowest months from LCA:

February 301.000
December 374.000
November 448.000

Even with these modest numbers they could sustain some sort of normal operation. They used to fly to London, Paris, Kiev, as well as Tel Aviv and I think Beirut at the height of their presence in LCA. They used to offer connecting flights between these cities.
One by one these cities were cut. There was very little marketing and many destinations had awkward hours. For example CDG used to arrive to LCA at around 03.20. Their TLV flights would depart late at night and arrive in the middle of the night to TLV. They never tried to enter the charter market in Cyprus despite having an extensive network from other Greek islands.

In the end the market moved on and Aegean became obsolete. They did maintain their presence in Tel Aviv in addition to LCA-ATH/SKG flights, of course.

As for Wizz Air, I guess we will have to wait and see what becomes of them. One of the biggest problems with Cyprus is that most of Europe is far away. Closest non-Greek capital is Sofia which is 01.50 away. London is close to 5 hours, Paris 4 and so on.


You are right about the distance..Closest are balkan cities and TLV..On the other hand, the Canary islands, inspite of their being 3-5hrs away from most european cities, they have managed to attract dozens of winter flights with the help of LCCs/Charters, sth that Cyprus hasn't done so far..


I know Cyprus has many scheduled flights in winter, especially on LCC. Don't forget that there is also Paphos which is home to a year-round Ryanair base. I guess these airlines handle these passengers once winter comes.
 
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TKflyer
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Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:18 pm

Is Aegean to painting some or all Airbus A320–232 in to the new colours, like the Airbus A320–271 NEO‘s?
especially the younger ones like SX–DGY (msn 6611), SX–DGZ (msn 6643), SX–DNA (msn 6655), SX–DNB (msn 6832), SX–DNC (msn 6961), SX–DND (msn 6989), SX–DNE (msn 7014)
 
marcogr12
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Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:26 pm

Blerg wrote:
Starting from June Wizz Air will be launching two new routes from Belgrade to Greece. These are Santorini and Heraklion. Both will operate twice per week.

Flights are already in the system.


They are launching more flights than just these two..Add VNO-ZTH, SOF-ZTH, TLV-ZTH, TLV-CFU, RIX-JTR
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
Blerg
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Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:34 pm

marcogr12 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Starting from June Wizz Air will be launching two new routes from Belgrade to Greece. These are Santorini and Heraklion. Both will operate twice per week.

Flights are already in the system.


They are launching more flights than just these two..Add VNO-ZTH, SOF-ZTH, TLV-ZTH, TLV-CFU, RIX-JTR


Well I live in Belgrade so those two were relevant for me. :)
 
Sloth2000
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Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:47 pm

Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:51 pm

Speaking of Olympic... Have you seen the Olympic Airways SX-OAD keyrings by Tailfins? The Greek says Olympic Flame which is a nice touch as it was the name of that plane :airplane: :o (hmmm unsure how to embed an image so I've attached it)

https://tailfins.co.uk/edition-6-boeing-747-200-sx-oad/

Fond memories of old Olympic. I loved that retro livery with the rings. They appeared to name all their 747s. I like when airlines name their planes.
 
Blerg
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Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:07 am

I still think it's a shame that once Aegean bought Olympic that they didn't keep the legendary and iconic branding. That livery was stunning and gorgeous.
 
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aerolimani
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Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:27 am

Blerg wrote:
I still think it's a shame that once Aegean bought Olympic that they didn't keep the legendary and iconic branding. That livery was stunning and gorgeous.

It’s not as awesome as on the 747, but the livery and branding live on with the current Olympic Air fleet of eight Q400, two DH8-100, and two ATR-42. Diminished, but not gone.
 
Blerg
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Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:55 am

aerolimani wrote:
Blerg wrote:
I still think it's a shame that once Aegean bought Olympic that they didn't keep the legendary and iconic branding. That livery was stunning and gorgeous.

It’s not as awesome as on the 747, but the livery and branding live on with the current Olympic Air fleet of eight Q400, two DH8-100, and two ATR-42. Diminished, but not gone.


Well, at least that's something. Once upon a time the rings flew on the B747 and the A340 all over the world while now it's restricted to the Q400 flying around the Balkans.
 
OlympicATH
Posts: 257
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Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:39 pm

Blerg wrote:
Once upon a time the rings flew on the B747 and the A340 all over the world


Yes burning millions in taxpayer money in the process.

A part of me also misses Olympic as I used to fly them between Montreal and Athens growing up. That being said, Greece is much better off with Aegean. It's a premium, punctual, customer-oriented airline with a very young fleet and a member of Star Alliance. Not to mention it's privately owned and profitable, paying hundreds of millions in taxes to the Greek state every year. And excluding a handful of loss-making long-haul routes OA used to run, Aegean has a much broader domestic and regional network with more destinations and frequencies than OA ever had. Aegean was the brand to keep and management made a good call.
 
GZM1
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Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:31 pm

OlympicATH wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Once upon a time the rings flew on the B747 and the A340 all over the world


Yes burning millions in taxpayer money in the process.
And excluding a handful of loss-making long-haul routes OA used to run.......

Long haul flights to/from ATH do not make money. Take for example the case of those three American Airlines that cease operations during low season and restart them in the summer. Why, indeed! Nobody can force them. Olympic was the national airline and had to run those schedules regardless of. If those flights could be profitable, Aegean would operate them also and become rich. Aegean is correctly placed as a good regional airline and is better off like that. Not to mention that it completely lacks the infrastructure to support such schedules anyway.
It’s all Greek to me! Aeroplane Basic Category Cycle Dynamic Economics Ecstasy Fantasy Galaxy Geometry Harmony History Horizon Idea Logic Magnetism Music Mystery Nautical Orchestra Organism Phenomenon Political Problem Symphony Technology Telephone Zone
 
Blerg
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Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:52 pm

GZM1 wrote:
OlympicATH wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Once upon a time the rings flew on the B747 and the A340 all over the world


Yes burning millions in taxpayer money in the process.
And excluding a handful of loss-making long-haul routes OA used to run.......

Long haul flights to/from ATH do not make money. Take for example the case of those three American Airlines that cease operations during low season and restart them in the summer. Why, indeed! Nobody can force them. Olympic was the national airline and had to run those schedules regardless of. If those flights could be profitable, Aegean would operate them also and become rich. Aegean is correctly placed as a good regional airline and is better off like that. Not to mention that it completely lacks the infrastructure to support such schedules anyway.


We should also not forget that OA was a product of a different era. Aegean was founded under different circumstances and by people who were more adapted to new realities. I love Aegean and they are most definitely a great airline to fly with but personally I find the overall experience less warm than the one you experienced when flying on OA. Maybe it's just me, maybe it's my memories playing tricks on me... who knows.
 
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OA260
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Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:52 pm

Olympic was a social welfare system employing triple the amount of workforce it needed and everyones relatives getting a job if you knew someone in government. The governments were sucking it dry in the 80’/90’s until its shut down. Its actually one of the most shameful events in modern Greek history that they allowed a once strong well respected brand under Onassis to become the poor state it became .

Still I have great memories of flying in the 80’s/90’s on the B747’s / A300B4’s with great crews and decent hot meals . It could have been around today making money had it been allowed to modernise be independent of the Greek state and free of corruption. The brand was great it was the decision makers who were rotten . Still there were many excellent world class engineers , pilots who worked at OA who sadly saw village idiots running it into the ground .
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:06 pm

If Olympic had thrived, Aegean would not have been able to start and grow like it did. Greece cannot sustain 2 sizeable network airlines with destinations all over Europe (even Spain can't do that !). Furthermore, Olympic would have changed radically by now - flying to Australia is not sustainable against Emirates. Aegean is in a considerably better state than many airlines... trying to draw comparisons between Olympic of the 1980s and Aegean 40 years later is maybe not a case of comparing like for like
 
OlympicATH
Posts: 257
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Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:09 pm

GZM1 wrote:
Long haul flights to/from ATH do not make money. Take for example the case of those three American Airlines that cease operations during low season and restart them in the summer. Why, indeed! Nobody can force them. Olympic was the national airline and had to run those schedules regardless of. If those flights could be profitable, Aegean would operate them also and become rich. Aegean is correctly placed as a good regional airline and is better off like that. Not to mention that it completely lacks the infrastructure to support such schedules anyway.


This is too simplistic.

Long-haul to/from Athens does make money, especially in the summer. Otherwise why would you have so many carriers operating flights, including many additions in recent years?
AA is launching a daily JFK-ATH this summer in the middle of the pandemic. And one of the two DL daily flights on JFK-ATH is being maintained through next winter, not sure if this was mentioned before.

This summer ATH will have:
AA: PHL, ORD, JFK
DL: JFK 2x (one of which is now year-round)
UA: EWR
EK: EWR (year-round)
AC: YYZ, YUL (these are now both daily mainline 77W)
TS: YYZ, YUL
CA: PEK (year-round)

And before the pandemic there was also TR to SIN (year-round) and HO had announced flights to PVG.

All these airlines are not charities.

The issue with OA was not the market but the airline itself. It was extremely badly run and the cost structure was ridiculously high.
As for Aegean, they haven't tried long-haul (yet) because it's a very different business with some execution risk and they are focused on growing their existing successful operation. Long-haul could happen in the future, when a certain scale is achieved.
 
Blerg
Posts: 4813
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:39 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
If Olympic had thrived, Aegean would not have been able to start and grow like it did. Greece cannot sustain 2 sizeable network airlines with destinations all over Europe (even Spain can't do that !). Furthermore, Olympic would have changed radically by now - flying to Australia is not sustainable against Emirates. Aegean is in a considerably better state than many airlines... trying to draw comparisons between Olympic of the 1980s and Aegean 40 years later is maybe not a case of comparing like for like


I still think it's a shame that the Greek government didn't reform OA like Serbia did with JU, Turkey with TK and Poland with LO. Sure, both airlines are not perfect but at the least they placed healthy foundations upon which a new business model could be built. Unfortunately, looking back, I fear OA would have become more like AZ than LO.
 
Blerg
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Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 9:32 am

According to Belgrade airport's website, Aegean plans on introducing 2x weekly BEG-HER and 2x weekly BEG-RHO from June 2020.

https://beg.aero/cir/sezonski
 
OlympicATH
Posts: 257
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Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:29 pm

Blerg wrote:
I still think it's a shame that the Greek government didn't reform OA like Serbia did with JU, Turkey with TK and Poland with LO. Sure, both airlines are not perfect but at the least they placed healthy foundations upon which a new business model could be built. Unfortunately, looking back, I fear OA would have become more like AZ than LO.


The Greek government privatised Olympic Airlines in 2009, which was the right thing to do. The company was taken over by Marfin Investment Group and was renamed Olympic Air. The new shareholder decided to axe long-haul operations as they were bleeding money and chose to focus on rebuilding the brand in the domestic and regional market with new A320 and Dash 8 aircraft. Aegean later acquired Olympic in 2013.

In some ways this is similar to JAT/Air Serbia, which however was only partly privatised. But in that case (and in the case of LOT) the companies are private and there is no way to know if they are actually profitable. I personally doubt it. I really don’t think LOT’s aggressive long-haul expansion (including from places like Krakow, Budapest and Rzeszow!) or Air Serbia’s JFK route with one (!) A330 generate any profit.

TK is a different story. It is a listed company with public filings. It’s very well run and obviously benefits from a huge and fast-growing domestic market and a strategically located hub. You can’t compare OA/A3 with TK, it’s a different ball game altogether.
 
Detroit313
Posts: 660
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Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:53 pm

Glad to see Delta trying year-round JFK - ATH again after so many years. I think the last time was in 2011.
 
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OA260
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Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 6:23 pm

Sad news of the death of Boris Mouzenidis


Boris Mouzenidis, Ellinair Airlines Founder Buried in Thessaloniki

ATHENS -- Boris Mouzenidis, 60, founder of a travel agency that boosted tourism between Greece and Russia and of an airline company, was buried in Nea Efkarpia, Thessaloniki region, on Thursday.

The self-made businessman who led a business group named after him, had been hospitalized in Moscow during a business trip after contracting coronavirus. He died of heart failure after Covid-19 complications on Saturday (March 27), and his body was transported to Greece on a special flight of Ellinair, the airline he founded in 2013.

www.thenationalherald.com/archive_gener ... i-2111057/
 
Blerg
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Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:36 am

OlympicATH wrote:
Blerg wrote:
I still think it's a shame that the Greek government didn't reform OA like Serbia did with JU, Turkey with TK and Poland with LO. Sure, both airlines are not perfect but at the least they placed healthy foundations upon which a new business model could be built. Unfortunately, looking back, I fear OA would have become more like AZ than LO.


The Greek government privatised Olympic Airlines in 2009, which was the right thing to do. The company was taken over by Marfin Investment Group and was renamed Olympic Air. The new shareholder decided to axe long-haul operations as they were bleeding money and chose to focus on rebuilding the brand in the domestic and regional market with new A320 and Dash 8 aircraft. Aegean later acquired Olympic in 2013.

In some ways this is similar to JAT/Air Serbia, which however was only partly privatised. But in that case (and in the case of LOT) the companies are private and there is no way to know if they are actually profitable. I personally doubt it. I really don’t think LOT’s aggressive long-haul expansion (including from places like Krakow, Budapest and Rzeszow!) or Air Serbia’s JFK route with one (!) A330 generate any profit.

TK is a different story. It is a listed company with public filings. It’s very well run and obviously benefits from a huge and fast-growing domestic market and a strategically located hub. You can’t compare OA/A3 with TK, it’s a different ball game altogether.


Air Serbia's JFK flights are profitable from April to the end of October, losses went down from 14 million a year to around 5 million which is easier to manage.
As for Olympic, I remember when it was privatized, I even flew LCA-ATH-BEG on the new OA. Unfortunately I don't think it ever had a chance with Aegean getting stronger and stronger at that time. I don't think Athens could have sustained two such carriers. New OA had a modest international network and I don't think its new investors wanted to spend that much money on making them sustainable in the long run.

I remember they started to struggle relatively fast and many routes and destinations were cut. I think the Greek government should have immediately sold OA to A3... which is something that eventually happened. Unfortunately Aegean was forced to compete with them over those years, it was a nuisance that could have been avoided.
 
GZM1
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Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:01 am

Blerg wrote:
I remember (the new OA) started to struggle relatively fast and many routes and destinations were cut. I think the Greek government should have immediately sold OA to A3... which is something that eventually happened. Unfortunately Aegean was forced to compete with them over those years, it was a nuisance that could have been avoided.

The Greek state could not sell OA to Aegean outright. They had to show they were trying to re-organize the company at first. So they found an agent, Marfin, to arrange all that because after all, “bad Olympic” had her faithful clientele and they had to proceed slowly. So when the package was ready and Aegean was ready to acquire at a price they could afford, the merger took place. These things take time. During a poll back then more than 60% believed that everything was pre-arranged.
It’s all Greek to me! Aeroplane Basic Category Cycle Dynamic Economics Ecstasy Fantasy Galaxy Geometry Harmony History Horizon Idea Logic Magnetism Music Mystery Nautical Orchestra Organism Phenomenon Political Problem Symphony Technology Telephone Zone
 
debonair
Posts: 4208
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:50 pm

Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:47 am

Some sign of life, FlyGR8 SX-DRA moved from BCM to ATH according to skyliner-aviation... Seems they will restart ops soon.
 
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OA260
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Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:14 am

A3 financial results are in . No real surprises .

PRESS RELEASE

Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2020 Financial Results
Second lockdown results in 74% Revenue decline in Q4-20 5,2 mil. passengers and €228 mil. Net Losses in full year 2020

https://en.aegeanair.com/-/media/abouta ... y20_ir.pdf
 
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TKflyer
Posts: 58
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Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon May 03, 2021 12:46 pm

TKflyer wrote:
Is Aegean to painting some or all Airbus A320–232 in to the new colours, like the Airbus A320–271 NEO‘s?
especially the younger ones like SX–DGY (msn 6611), SX–DGZ (msn 6643), SX–DNA (msn 6655), SX–DNB (msn 6832), SX–DNC (msn 6961), SX–DND (msn 6989), SX–DNE (msn 7014)



And finally fresh painted SX–DND is the first Airbus A320ceo in the new livery

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/10145784
 
AIR MALTA
Posts: 1791
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2001 6:45 am

Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon May 03, 2021 7:36 pm

TKflyer wrote:
TKflyer wrote:
Is Aegean to painting some or all Airbus A320–232 in to the new colours, like the Airbus A320–271 NEO‘s?
especially the younger ones like SX–DGY (msn 6611), SX–DGZ (msn 6643), SX–DNA (msn 6655), SX–DNB (msn 6832), SX–DNC (msn 6961), SX–DND (msn 6989), SX–DNE (msn 7014)



And finally fresh painted SX–DND is the first Airbus A320ceo in the new livery

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/10145784

Excellent. So the question now is when are they going to use the new branding for their website, lounges, magazines, check-in desks, etc.
Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
 
OlympicATH
Posts: 257
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2001 8:43 am

Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon May 03, 2021 10:52 pm

AIR MALTA wrote:
TKflyer wrote:
TKflyer wrote:
Is Aegean to painting some or all Airbus A320–232 in to the new colours, like the Airbus A320–271 NEO‘s?
especially the younger ones like SX–DGY (msn 6611), SX–DGZ (msn 6643), SX–DNA (msn 6655), SX–DNB (msn 6832), SX–DNC (msn 6961), SX–DND (msn 6989), SX–DNE (msn 7014)



And finally fresh painted SX–DND is the first Airbus A320ceo in the new livery

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/10145784

Excellent. So the question now is when are they going to use the new branding for their website, lounges, magazines, check-in desks, etc.


I’m assuming when the pandemic is largely over and people start flying again. It probably makes sense to launch the formal rebranding when people actually notice.
 
Blerg
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Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun May 09, 2021 9:38 am

Aegean has removed ATH-ZAG from its booking system for this summer. Flights were supposed to start in June and to operate twice per week. They were already delayed once so I guess Aegean doesn't expect demand to recover. They have already removed ZAG-SPU some time ago.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5869
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun May 09, 2021 10:06 am

Blerg wrote:
Aegean has removed ATH-ZAG from its booking system for this summer. Flights were supposed to start in June and to operate twice per week. They were already delayed once so I guess Aegean doesn't expect demand to recover. They have already removed ZAG-SPU some time ago.


Also ATH-OPO (which was operated at least in 2019) so I reckon there are more routes from ATH affected.
 
NeperQiell
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:22 pm

Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun May 09, 2021 11:27 am

HER-TIA 1x weekly from 22 June. Wizz tried this route last year but was hampered by Covid restrictions. Good to see Aegean giving it a chance
 
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Athan
Posts: 8
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Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed May 12, 2021 6:23 pm

The second A320ceo of AEGEAN receives the new livery with registration SX-DNB.
 
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Athan
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:57 pm

Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 3:44 am

A third A320ceo, bearing registration SX-DNE, has been repainted in the new AEGEAN corporate livery.
 
Blerg
Posts: 4813
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 6:31 am

Are the SX-DN... the latest A320 ceo additions to the fleet?
 
AsoRock
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 4:00 pm

Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 7:25 am

Saudia has resumed its service to Athens, with a Riyadh flight departing to Athens today (Operated by the A320) coinciding with Saudi citizens allowed to travel outside the Kingdom as of 17 May
 
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TKflyer
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:35 am

Re: Greek Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 12:58 pm

Blerg wrote:
Are the SX-DN... the latest A320 ceo additions to the fleet?


TKflyer wrote:
Is Aegean to painting some or all Airbus A320–232 in to the new colours, like the Airbus A320–271 NEO‘s?
especially the younger ones like SX–DGY (msn 6611), SX–DGZ (msn 6643), SX–DNA (msn 6655), SX–DNB (msn 6832), SX–DNC (msn 6961), SX–DND (msn 6989), SX–DNE (msn 7014)


Yes, not only the last SX–DN... Series, also SX–DGY & SX–DGZ.
Those 7 frames are on average 5.5 years old

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