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San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:32 pm

Welcome to the San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread 2021. Please continue to post your news and your discussion here.

Link to previous thread:

San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2020
 
Jshank83
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 04, 2021 6:27 pm

I doubt this is new since flights start tomorrow but I'll bring it up since they are getting ready to start.

Frontier flying OAK-DEN/LAS/PHX

https://www.portofoakland.com/press-rel ... l-airport/
 
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intotheair
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:08 am

Jshank83 wrote:
I doubt this is new since flights start tomorrow but I'll bring it up since they are getting ready to start.

Frontier flying OAK-DEN/LAS/PHX

https://www.portofoakland.com/press-rel ... l-airport/


OAK-DEN started today (Thursday). The rest start tomorrow. The routes were announced in November.

Can anyone recall when F9 served OAK before? I believe they started OAK-DEN in 2002 (I know I flew it a few times), but I'm not sure when they stopped or if they ever served any other destination.
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ucdtim17
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:17 pm

DL is bringing back OAK-LAX after dropping it in 2018. Route commences 4/12 and looks like generally 3x daily on E175s. Nice to see a non-ULCC add something at OAK.
 
ucdtim17
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Feb 09, 2021 5:43 pm

Also returning is the oft-started-and-stopped OAK-ATL route. Daily redeye eastbound on a 739, starting 4/12, late evening return.
 
Qantas59
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:41 pm

At SFO, Terminal 1 I was recently looking at the yet to be opened new gates and noticed that gate B11 has a jetway extending from an upper level area (also not yet completed). Could this have been envisioned for an A380?
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SFOA380
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:05 am

Qantas59 wrote:
At SFO, Terminal 1 I was recently looking at the yet to be opened new gates and noticed that gate B11 has a jetway extending from an upper level area (also not yet completed). Could this have been envisioned for an A380?


Yes there are two or three new swing gates that will be A380 capable. Not sure they’ll ever see the A380 but prior to the pandemic gate space in the International terminal was severely constrained.
 
airplaneboy
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:34 am

intotheair wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
I doubt this is new since flights start tomorrow but I'll bring it up since they are getting ready to start.

Frontier flying OAK-DEN/LAS/PHX

https://www.portofoakland.com/press-rel ... l-airport/


OAK-DEN started today (Thursday). The rest start tomorrow. The routes were announced in November.

Can anyone recall when F9 served OAK before? I believe they started OAK-DEN in 2002 (I know I flew it a few times), but I'm not sure when they stopped or if they ever served any other destination.


The service was flown using Mesa CRJ-200s marketed as Frontier JetExpress. I don’t think the service lasted very long. The agreement with Mesa ended around 2004 when F9 contracted with Horizon, which flew CRJ-700s under the JetExpress banner until ~2006/2007. I think OAK was discontinued while Mesa was still flying for F9.
 
ucdtim17
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:22 pm

DL drops SJC-JFK. B6 red eye remains as the sole NYC link (assuming it returns this summer). https://thepointsguy.com/news/delta-dro ... ty-update/
 
ucdtim17
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:04 pm

ucdtim17 wrote:
Also returning is the oft-started-and-stopped OAK-ATL route. Daily redeye eastbound on a 739, starting 4/12, late evening return.


OAK-ATL stopped again.

***

:zzz: Crickets on this thread. This board will do 10 pages of LGB (2019 traffic 3.5 mil) discussion before we fill up a single page of Bay Area (2019 traffic ~85 mil) discussion. FAT (1.9 mil) thread is on its 4th page for 2021 already. :confused:
 
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intotheair
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:24 pm

I'm under the impression things are starting to pick up again. I've gone back to flying SFO-DEN about once every month or so again. Terminal 3 was empty earlier in the year, but there was a little more activity there last week. Hopefully SFO can recover.
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BrodieBruce
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:35 pm

intotheair wrote:
I'm under the impression things are starting to pick up again. I've gone back to flying SFO-DEN about once every month or so again. Terminal 3 was empty earlier in the year, but there was a little more activity there last week. Hopefully SFO can recover.

The City is coming back to life and is the liveliest I've seen it since last year. Im sure air traffic will pick up, but probably wont reach its pre pandemic peaks given how business travel has shifted.
 
ChasChandler
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:34 pm

I had a question about the bay itself. I've seen countless photos and videos of SFO and the surrounding bay, but I never see any kind of boating activity. Is that part of the bay surrounding the airport restricted from boating or am I looking at the wrong pictures?
 
ucdtim17
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:36 pm

ChasChandler wrote:
I had a question about the bay itself. I've seen countless photos and videos of SFO and the surrounding bay, but I never see any kind of boating activity. Is that part of the bay surrounding the airport restricted from boating or am I looking at the wrong pictures?


I'm sure there are some restrictions around the airports, but it's also that the stretch of bay between OAK and SFO is a lot less scenic that the part between the Bay Bridge, the Golden Gate Bridge and Angel Island.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:16 pm

ucdtim17 wrote:
ChasChandler wrote:
I had a question about the bay itself. I've seen countless photos and videos of SFO and the surrounding bay, but I never see any kind of boating activity. Is that part of the bay surrounding the airport restricted from boating or am I looking at the wrong pictures?


I'm sure there are some restrictions around the airports, but it's also that the stretch of bay between OAK and SFO is a lot less scenic that the part between the Bay Bridge, the Golden Gate Bridge and Angel Island.


That section of the bay is also extremely shallow, if I recall. That might be part of it too. There is a marina at Coyote Point, so there has to be some boat traffic past SFO.
 
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NOLAWildcat
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:19 pm

ChasChandler wrote:
I had a question about the bay itself. I've seen countless photos and videos of SFO and the surrounding bay, but I never see any kind of boating activity. Is that part of the bay surrounding the airport restricted from boating or am I looking at the wrong pictures?


While I’d guess that the Alameda and San Mateo Sheriff’s Office (or possibly the Coast Guard) keeps the water immediately around the airports clear of pleasure craft as there’s a security zone around each of SFO and OAK, the Bay is shallow enough in these areas that the marked channels out of the marinas in San Leandro (south of OAK) and Foster City (south of SFO) dredged for boat traffic extend a good ways out into the Bay. That far south I’d guess you’d run a decent chance of running aground close to either airport depending on tides, particularly if you’re in a sailboat with a deep keel.

I’m not a mariner, but the nautical charts show depths consistently under 10 feet more than a mile from OAK. It’s a little deeper near SFO, but even then, it shows water less than 10 feet deep more than a mile from the runways at several locations.

Most of the pleasure craft cruise around farther north where the Bay is deeper, the winds stronger, and there’s more room to maneuver (plus the views are nicer).
 
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intotheair
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:02 am

The San Francisco Bay Ferry plans to start service to Redwood City after a study found that it's possible. The farthest south they currently have a terminal on the peninsula is in South San Francisco, just a little north of SFO. I've never taken it as it's timed mostly for commuters, but I think it's convenient for Genentech employees. Not sure how good the planespotting is.

https://sanfranciscobayferry.com/redwoo ... lease-2021
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Newark727
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:06 am

NOLAWildcat wrote:
ChasChandler wrote:
I had a question about the bay itself. I've seen countless photos and videos of SFO and the surrounding bay, but I never see any kind of boating activity. Is that part of the bay surrounding the airport restricted from boating or am I looking at the wrong pictures?


While I’d guess that the Alameda and San Mateo Sheriff’s Office (or possibly the Coast Guard) keeps the water immediately around the airports clear of pleasure craft as there’s a security zone around each of SFO and OAK, the Bay is shallow enough in these areas that the marked channels out of the marinas in San Leandro (south of OAK) and Foster City (south of SFO) dredged for boat traffic extend a good ways out into the Bay. That far south I’d guess you’d run a decent chance of running aground close to either airport depending on tides, particularly if you’re in a sailboat with a deep keel.

I’m not a mariner, but the nautical charts show depths consistently under 10 feet more than a mile from OAK. It’s a little deeper near SFO, but even then, it shows water less than 10 feet deep more than a mile from the runways at several locations.

Most of the pleasure craft cruise around farther north where the Bay is deeper, the winds stronger, and there’s more room to maneuver (plus the views are nicer).


I always wondered what kind of SFO plane photography I could do if I rented a kayak.
 
jplatts
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:05 am

BrodieBruce wrote:
intotheair wrote:
I'm under the impression things are starting to pick up again. I've gone back to flying SFO-DEN about once every month or so again. Terminal 3 was empty earlier in the year, but there was a little more activity there last week. Hopefully SFO can recover.

The City is coming back to life and is the liveliest I've seen it since last year. Im sure air traffic will pick up, but probably wont reach its pre pandemic peaks given how business travel has shifted.


There are still more domestic adds that could be made by UA out of SFO such as SFO-CLT/CVG/ELP/BDL/MKE/TUL once demand recovers with CLT, CVG, ELP, BDL, MKE, and TUL being top domestic destinations traveled to from the San Francisco Bay Area that UA doesn't currently serve nonstop from SFO.
 
flyfresno
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:12 am

ucdtim17 wrote:
FAT (1.9 mil) thread is on its 4th page for 2021 already. :confused:


The CLE, STL, and, of course, DTW threads all have double or more the number of posts in 2021 that FAT does. :scratchchin:
 
ucdtim17
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:06 pm

SFO is pulling up the rear amongst the top 50 airports as far as lost traffic from pre-pandemic, with reduced local business demand and almost nonexistent transpac demand. SFO down 60% from 2/1/2020, SJC down 57% and OAK down 28%. OAK presumably doing a bit better with ~zero international exposure and its place as a more important connecting point for WN than SJC is for either WN or AS. https://www.sfchronicle.com/local/artic ... 131017.php
 
AAflyguy
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:55 pm

ucdtim17 wrote:
SFO is pulling up the rear amongst the top 50 airports as far as lost traffic from pre-pandemic, with reduced local business demand and almost nonexistent transpac demand. SFO down 60% from 2/1/2020, SJC down 57% and OAK down 28%. OAK presumably doing a bit better with ~zero international exposure and its place as a more important connecting point for WN than SJC is for either WN or AS. https://www.sfchronicle.com/local/artic ... 131017.php


SFO generally has a fair amount of connecting traffic, much of which is currently non-existent due to the anemic international network. The domestic feed is on life support because it strongly relies on the international access. So, it is a double-whammy for them. It'll be quite some time before SFO is back. OAK does not have much connecting traffic, even now. It is about 15-20% during the pandemic due to how WN has built its schedule to link markets which previously had nonstop service. Historically connecting traffic has been more along the lines of 10% there. OAK is faring far better than either SFO or SJC in traffic resurgence. It is now consistently seeing 60%+ of 2019 levels, when Norwegian had a large presence, so it is more than respectable taking that into account. Both AA & B6 were in the market at the time as well. In March OAK had 490K total passengers vs 360K for SJC. HUGE gap @ 35%+. If capacity further increases for the summer, as expected, OAK traffic is likely to hit 75% of 2019. Not too shabby, especially when looking back at Summer 2020.

AAflyguy
 
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DocLightning
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:06 pm

NOLAWildcat wrote:
I’m not a mariner, but the nautical charts show depths consistently under 10 feet more than a mile from OAK. It’s a little deeper near SFO, but even then, it shows water less than 10 feet deep more than a mile from the runways at several locations.


I'm an open water swimmer and you'd be amazed at how shallow most of the Bay is. Aside from the obvious spots (like out in the middle near Alcatraz) and the dredged spots, you can usually touch bottom without too much effort (and often you can even stand).
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
AAflyguy
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Re: San Francisco Bay Area Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:37 pm

DocLightning wrote:
NOLAWildcat wrote:
I’m not a mariner, but the nautical charts show depths consistently under 10 feet more than a mile from OAK. It’s a little deeper near SFO, but even then, it shows water less than 10 feet deep more than a mile from the runways at several locations.


I'm an open water swimmer and you'd be amazed at how shallow most of the Bay is. Aside from the obvious spots (like out in the middle near Alcatraz) and the dredged spots, you can usually touch bottom without too much effort (and often you can even stand).


WOW!! Not what I expected to hear.

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