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Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:40 pm

Welcome to the Norwegian News and Discussion Thread 2021. Please continue to post your news and your discussion here.

Link to previous thread:

Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020
 
Ryga
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:07 am

Norwegian Air is “fighting for survival” after passenger numbers tumbled by 94% year-on-year in December due to continued Covid-19 travel restrictions across Europe.

https://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles ... HMN3-Qwr3E
AA AM BA BM BY DP DY EK MH PG RJ TK U2 VS Y2 ZB Z2 5J 9W

738 752 762ER/3ER 77W 788/9
A319/20/21 A332/3
E190
ATR 72-600
Jetstream 32
CRJ200ER
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:42 pm

To me, there doesn't seem to be any opportunity for Norwegian to avoid shutting down and liquidating. The future of leisure travel, specifically one that involves crossing borders, will be complex, fragmented, and a lot less accessible than it was until 2019. Norwegian's tangled web of legal entities and complex labor policies that go with it will make it very difficult for them to maintain in the new normal from an operational standpoint. The other issue is the tremendous slack that exists in global aviation at the moment, with so many parked planes and dormant routes. It will not be the flip of a switch for all this to come back and it can't and Norwegian need that in order to stay afloat. The best this company can hope for is an asset sale to bidders and it will likely be all sold at a discount. The fact that Norwegian hasn't folded yet is actually astounding.
 
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cirrusdragoon
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:30 pm

It is always sad to see this occur. https://www.aerotime.aero/26878-Norwegi ... on-airport

Norwegian Air started moving some of its planes to SNN airport following the Irish High Court decision to grant the airline creditor protection which gave Norwegian Air time to continue on the restructuring of its debts. Since mid-December 2020, Norwegian Air has been moving aircraft to Shannon Airport (SNN) with an aim to prepare the aircraft for returning them back to its Irish lessors that supply the majority of the fleet. The ongoing plane relocation comes as a part of Norwegian Air's restructuring process. The airline has unpaid debt liabilities to lessors reaching up to €4 billion.

Not the whole Norwegian Air fleet is going. The airline is likely to move 72 planes that were leased by the Ireland-registered lessors and take part in the airline examinership process. Another part of the fleet, consisting of 124 planes, is held by other entities that are not involved in the examinership.
 
LASVegan
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:22 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
To me, there doesn't seem to be any opportunity for Norwegian to avoid shutting down and liquidating. The future of leisure travel, specifically one that involves crossing borders, will be complex, fragmented, and a lot less accessible than it was until 2019. Norwegian's tangled web of legal entities and complex labor policies that go with it will make it very difficult for them to maintain in the new normal from an operational standpoint. The other issue is the tremendous slack that exists in global aviation at the moment, with so many parked planes and dormant routes. It will not be the flip of a switch for all this to come back and it can't and Norwegian need that in order to stay afloat. The best this company can hope for is an asset sale to bidders and it will likely be all sold at a discount. The fact that Norwegian hasn't folded yet is actually astounding.


I guess this is the consequence of spinning an intricate web made to eschew labor laws, and other business norms, agreements, and laws. No one government or group will have your back, financially or otherwise, when things go south. As a union employee, I can’t say I’ll be too sad to see them go. At the same time, it was nice that my home airport (DEN) had the status of having 3 additional links to Europe (Rome, LGW, and Paris) that it likely won’t see again for quite some time if ever.
 
Capricorn
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:32 pm

cirrusdragoon wrote:
It is always sad to see this occur. https://www.aerotime.aero/26878-Norwegi ... on-airport

Norwegian Air started moving some of its planes to SNN airport following the Irish High Court decision to grant the airline creditor protection which gave Norwegian Air time to continue on the restructuring of its debts. Since mid-December 2020, Norwegian Air has been moving aircraft to Shannon Airport (SNN) with an aim to prepare the aircraft for returning them back to its Irish lessors that supply the majority of the fleet. The ongoing plane relocation comes as a part of Norwegian Air's restructuring process. The airline has unpaid debt liabilities to lessors reaching up to €4 billion.

Not the whole Norwegian Air fleet is going. The airline is likely to move 72 planes that were leased by the Ireland-registered lessors and take part in the airline examinership process. Another part of the fleet, consisting of 124 planes, is held by other entities that are not involved in the examinership.


Did Norwegian Air still have this many AC (72 + 124) in the fleet? I was unaware. Per Planespotters (https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Norwegian) there are only 124 AC in total and Wiki has it not much more. And per Irish times there are also only 140 AC in total.

The Irish-registered companies going through this process hold 72 of Norwegian’s total fleet, the remaining 68 are held by entities not included in the examinership.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/ret ... -1.4450975

But I am guessing NAS is trying to either drastically scale down or get out of its WB ops.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:24 pm

LASVegan wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
To me, there doesn't seem to be any opportunity for Norwegian to avoid shutting down and liquidating. The future of leisure travel, specifically one that involves crossing borders, will be complex, fragmented, and a lot less accessible than it was until 2019. Norwegian's tangled web of legal entities and complex labor policies that go with it will make it very difficult for them to maintain in the new normal from an operational standpoint. The other issue is the tremendous slack that exists in global aviation at the moment, with so many parked planes and dormant routes. It will not be the flip of a switch for all this to come back and it can't and Norwegian need that in order to stay afloat. The best this company can hope for is an asset sale to bidders and it will likely be all sold at a discount. The fact that Norwegian hasn't folded yet is actually astounding.


I guess this is the consequence of spinning an intricate web made to eschew labor laws, and other business norms, agreements, and laws. No one government or group will have your back, financially or otherwise, when things go south. As a union employee, I can’t say I’ll be too sad to see them go. At the same time, it was nice that my home airport (DEN) had the status of having 3 additional links to Europe (Rome, LGW, and Paris) that it likely won’t see again for quite some time if ever.


Totally agree with you. I flew Norwegian a bunch of times, within Europe and to/from the US, and found the experience generally pleasant, on par with what you get on a legacy network airline, albeit with sparkling new planes, cheerful crew, and in my experience with them, most flights were on time and when there was a delay, things were well explained, but in the end, the price was the same if you weren't careful with add ons (or needed them). In the end, DY and its labyrinth of corporate entities didn't need to exist, didn't do much to change the landscape, and belongs firmly in an era of travel that is gone for some time. It sure was nice to have choices, and nonstops to places of interest from one's doorstep, but from the perspective of longevity, they were on shaky ground from day 1.
 
airsmiles
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:37 am

ContinentalEWR wrote:
LASVegan wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
To me, there doesn't seem to be any opportunity for Norwegian to avoid shutting down and liquidating. The future of leisure travel, specifically one that involves crossing borders, will be complex, fragmented, and a lot less accessible than it was until 2019. Norwegian's tangled web of legal entities and complex labor policies that go with it will make it very difficult for them to maintain in the new normal from an operational standpoint. The other issue is the tremendous slack that exists in global aviation at the moment, with so many parked planes and dormant routes. It will not be the flip of a switch for all this to come back and it can't and Norwegian need that in order to stay afloat. The best this company can hope for is an asset sale to bidders and it will likely be all sold at a discount. The fact that Norwegian hasn't folded yet is actually astounding.


I guess this is the consequence of spinning an intricate web made to eschew labor laws, and other business norms, agreements, and laws. No one government or group will have your back, financially or otherwise, when things go south. As a union employee, I can’t say I’ll be too sad to see them go. At the same time, it was nice that my home airport (DEN) had the status of having 3 additional links to Europe (Rome, LGW, and Paris) that it likely won’t see again for quite some time if ever.


Totally agree with you. I flew Norwegian a bunch of times, within Europe and to/from the US, and found the experience generally pleasant, on par with what you get on a legacy network airline, albeit with sparkling new planes, cheerful crew, and in my experience with them, most flights were on time and when there was a delay, things were well explained, but in the end, the price was the same if you weren't careful with add ons (or needed them). In the end, DY and its labyrinth of corporate entities didn't need to exist, didn't do much to change the landscape, and belongs firmly in an era of travel that is gone for some time. It sure was nice to have choices, and nonstops to places of interest from one's doorstep, but from the perspective of longevity, they were on shaky ground from day 1.


This sums up my feelings exactly. I’ve always been critical of Norwegian as it followed exactly the same path to failure that Air Europe did in the late 1980’s and early 1990’s. Nothing has been learnt at all since then, but yet another bunch of investors have lost a fortune to allow passengers to fly at unrealistically low prices. In the meantime, more established and viable airlines have been damaged trying to cope with it. That race to the bottom has meant watered down employment contracts or loss of jobs in the name of efficiency, together with long-term damage to the wider industry.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:32 pm

airsmiles wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
LASVegan wrote:

I guess this is the consequence of spinning an intricate web made to eschew labor laws, and other business norms, agreements, and laws. No one government or group will have your back, financially or otherwise, when things go south. As a union employee, I can’t say I’ll be too sad to see them go. At the same time, it was nice that my home airport (DEN) had the status of having 3 additional links to Europe (Rome, LGW, and Paris) that it likely won’t see again for quite some time if ever.


Totally agree with you. I flew Norwegian a bunch of times, within Europe and to/from the US, and found the experience generally pleasant, on par with what you get on a legacy network airline, albeit with sparkling new planes, cheerful crew, and in my experience with them, most flights were on time and when there was a delay, things were well explained, but in the end, the price was the same if you weren't careful with add ons (or needed them). In the end, DY and its labyrinth of corporate entities didn't need to exist, didn't do much to change the landscape, and belongs firmly in an era of travel that is gone for some time. It sure was nice to have choices, and nonstops to places of interest from one's doorstep, but from the perspective of longevity, they were on shaky ground from day 1.


This sums up my feelings exactly. I’ve always been critical of Norwegian as it followed exactly the same path to failure that Air Europe did in the late 1980’s and early 1990’s. Nothing has been learnt at all since then, but yet another bunch of investors have lost a fortune to allow passengers to fly at unrealistically low prices. In the meantime, more established and viable airlines have been damaged trying to cope with it. That race to the bottom has meant watered down employment contracts or loss of jobs in the name of efficiency, together with long-term damage to the wider industry.


Agreed. Sometimes I feel like it is airlines like Norwegian that do more damage to the industry and take it further and further from profitability and sustainability than the established network carriers themselves, because the intensified competition, which is extreme, makes the experience of travel that much more unbearable.
 
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cirrusdragoon
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:16 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
airsmiles wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:

Totally agree with you. I flew Norwegian a bunch of times, within Europe and to/from the US, and found the experience generally pleasant, on par with what you get on a legacy network airline, albeit with sparkling new planes, cheerful crew, and in my experience with them, most flights were on time and when there was a delay, things were well explained, but in the end, the price was the same if you weren't careful with add ons (or needed them). In the end, DY and its labyrinth of corporate entities didn't need to exist, didn't do much to change the landscape, and belongs firmly in an era of travel that is gone for some time. It sure was nice to have choices, and nonstops to places of interest from one's doorstep, but from the perspective of longevity, they were on shaky ground from day 1.


This sums up my feelings exactly. I’ve always been critical of Norwegian as it followed exactly the same path to failure that Air Europe did in the late 1980’s and early 1990’s. Nothing has been learnt at all since then, but yet another bunch of investors have lost a fortune to allow passengers to fly at unrealistically low prices. In the meantime, more established and viable airlines have been damaged trying to cope with it. That race to the bottom has meant watered down employment contracts or loss of jobs in the name of efficiency, together with long-term damage to the wider industry.


Agreed. Sometimes I feel like it is airlines like Norwegian that do more damage to the industry and take it further and further from profitability and sustainability than the established network carriers themselves, because the intensified competition, which is extreme, makes the experience of travel that much more unbearable.


Absolutely. The race to the bottom of
the barrel in standards.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:16 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
To me, there doesn't seem to be any opportunity for Norwegian to avoid shutting down and liquidating. The future of leisure travel, specifically one that involves crossing borders, will be complex, fragmented, and a lot less accessible than it was until 2019. Norwegian's tangled web of legal entities and complex labor policies that go with it will make it very difficult for them to maintain in the new normal from an operational standpoint. The other issue is the tremendous slack that exists in global aviation at the moment, with so many parked planes and dormant routes. It will not be the flip of a switch for all this to come back and it can't and Norwegian need that in order to stay afloat. The best this company can hope for is an asset sale to bidders and it will likely be all sold at a discount. The fact that Norwegian hasn't folded yet is actually astounding.


Agreed as well. Expanding by just throwing darts at the wall, especially on long-haul, is a bad strategy. I have to wonder how many of Norwegian's long-haul services were profitable prior to COVID-19. What I see as of value right now to sell or lease would be the 73H/7M8 fleet, especially the now-ungrounded 7M8s, and the 32Q order book which had numbered 30 aircraft orders. As for the slots at LGW held as collateral...I have to wonder why an airline like jetBlue isn't busy contacting Norwegian's creditors about leasing those slots pending sale.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:37 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
To me, there doesn't seem to be any opportunity for Norwegian to avoid shutting down and liquidating. The future of leisure travel, specifically one that involves crossing borders, will be complex, fragmented, and a lot less accessible than it was until 2019. Norwegian's tangled web of legal entities and complex labor policies that go with it will make it very difficult for them to maintain in the new normal from an operational standpoint. The other issue is the tremendous slack that exists in global aviation at the moment, with so many parked planes and dormant routes. It will not be the flip of a switch for all this to come back and it can't and Norwegian need that in order to stay afloat. The best this company can hope for is an asset sale to bidders and it will likely be all sold at a discount. The fact that Norwegian hasn't folded yet is actually astounding.


Agreed as well. Expanding by just throwing darts at the wall, especially on long-haul, is a bad strategy. I have to wonder how many of Norwegian's long-haul services were profitable prior to COVID-19. What I see as of value right now to sell or lease would be the 73H/7M8 fleet, especially the now-ungrounded 7M8s, and the 32Q order book which had numbered 30 aircraft orders. As for the slots at LGW held as collateral...I have to wonder why an airline like jetBlue isn't busy contacting Norwegian's creditors about leasing those slots pending sale.


Yep, makes a lot of sense. On the LGW slots, is the airport slot restricted (meaning, does B6 or any other airline for that matter) required to apply for them? I can see B6 filing DY's void on a higher frequency JFK-LGW (and presumably adding a rotation to BOS as well) as the solution to their planned TATL expansion, though to be honest, any and all of that would seem poorly timed now, given the pandemic's most recent developments and B6's in place LON plans announced previously. With the frequency levels BA, UA, AA, DL, VS are operating in the NYC area market right, not sure what immediate access for B6 really accomplishes, but it is a valid point you raise.
 
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Polot
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:36 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
To me, there doesn't seem to be any opportunity for Norwegian to avoid shutting down and liquidating. The future of leisure travel, specifically one that involves crossing borders, will be complex, fragmented, and a lot less accessible than it was until 2019. Norwegian's tangled web of legal entities and complex labor policies that go with it will make it very difficult for them to maintain in the new normal from an operational standpoint. The other issue is the tremendous slack that exists in global aviation at the moment, with so many parked planes and dormant routes. It will not be the flip of a switch for all this to come back and it can't and Norwegian need that in order to stay afloat. The best this company can hope for is an asset sale to bidders and it will likely be all sold at a discount. The fact that Norwegian hasn't folded yet is actually astounding.


Agreed as well. Expanding by just throwing darts at the wall, especially on long-haul, is a bad strategy. I have to wonder how many of Norwegian's long-haul services were profitable prior to COVID-19. What I see as of value right now to sell or lease would be the 73H/7M8 fleet, especially the now-ungrounded 7M8s, and the 32Q order book which had numbered 30 aircraft orders. As for the slots at LGW held as collateral...I have to wonder why an airline like jetBlue isn't busy contacting Norwegian's creditors about leasing those slots pending sale.

The A32X orderbook has limited value. Norwegian can’t sell the production slots (they are Airbus’s slots, not DYs) and to sell A32Xs on delivery to someone else DY has to have the cash to survive as a going concern until delivery which is looking increasingly risky. Anything DY does with them would just be alleviating their commitment to them rather than really getting them extra cash. New aircraft are not in demand and nobody is going to want more than the price DY no doubt committed to for those planes at this time.

At this point I’m both Airbus and Boeing have zero confidence that DY’s direct orders will be fulfilled though. The direct orders are in complete conflict with the interests of the leasing companies that primarily own the company now.
 
marcogr12
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:15 pm

Why isn't Avinor-Oslo showing Norwegian's summer flights to Greece, Italy ,Spain, Belgrade, while Norwegian's site seems to be selling them without any problem?
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
Someone83
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:47 am

According to the new share overview, 64% of the Norwegian shares are now held by Scandinavian investors (majority Norwegian, but a significant amount of Swedes as well), and 80% of the shares are owned by European investors
 
prebennorholm
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:33 am

Someone83 wrote:
According to the new share overview, 64% of the Norwegian shares are now held by Scandinavian investors (majority Norwegian, but a significant amount of Swedes as well), and 80% of the shares are owned by European investors

There was an extraordinary shareholder meeting on 17 December. On the agenda was further change of debt to new shares, and also exchange of "old" shares giving one new share for every 100 old ones.

In addition there are rumors about physical mass return of stored planes to lessors, mainly to Shannon, Ireland.

Does somebody know in more detail what is going on? It seems like the leasing companies, which pretty much took over control in May last year, are now taking back their assets and running away.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
tphuang
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:42 am

If leasing companies are gone, what else can possibly keep DY affloat?
 
Someone83
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:01 am

tphuang wrote:
If leasing companies are gone, what else can possibly keep DY affloat?


The leasing companies never planned staying as long term shareholders in Norwegian

Neither have they provided any fresh cash, it is just that Norwegian has kept paying their debt issuing shares. Which the creditors then gradually sells
 
Someone83
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:45 am

Norwegian will present their new business plan today. From what I understand they will cease all long distance flying and dump their 787s. The plan is to have 50 aircraft in operation towards the end of 2021, focusing on the Nordics.

More info will follow
 
dcajet
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:59 am

https://media.uk.norwegian.com/pressrel ... rk-3064682

Will focus on short haul., Sheds all long haul flying, saying it is not viable in the current environment, calls insolvency practitioners to liquidate US, UK, Italy & France franchises.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
Ishrion
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:00 am

Someone83 wrote:
Norwegian will present their new business plan today. From what I understand they will cease all long distance flying and dump their 787s. The plan is to have 50 aircraft in operation towards the end of 2021, focusing on the Nordics.

More info will follow


Press release: https://media.uk.norwegian.com/pressrel ... rk-3064682

- 50 narrow body aircraft in 2021
- 70 narrow body aircraft in 2022
- Long-haul flying is done
 
HANSABEL84
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:12 am

wonder if they will dump the 737MAX and 321NEO as well.
 
jbs2886
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:16 am

Ishrion wrote:
Someone83 wrote:
Norwegian will present their new business plan today. From what I understand they will cease all long distance flying and dump their 787s. The plan is to have 50 aircraft in operation towards the end of 2021, focusing on the Nordics.

More info will follow


Press release: https://media.uk.norwegian.com/pressrel ... rk-3064682

- 50 narrow body aircraft in 2021
- 70 narrow body aircraft in 2022
- Long-haul flying is done


Wow, that is 35+ 787s on the market now.
 
Someone83
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:21 am

jbs2886 wrote:

Wow, that is 35+ 787s on the market now.


At at least half has engines that works :stirthepot:
 
Capricorn
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:17 am

Ishrion wrote:
Someone83 wrote:
Norwegian will present their new business plan today. From what I understand they will cease all long distance flying and dump their 787s. The plan is to have 50 aircraft in operation towards the end of 2021, focusing on the Nordics.

More info will follow


Press release: https://media.uk.norwegian.com/pressrel ... rk-3064682

- 50 narrow body aircraft in 2021
- 70 narrow body aircraft in 2022
- Long-haul flying is done


If the aviation market bounces back strong and creditors show some more patience IMO that plan might just work. But I am still pessimistic about DY. Quitting long-haul was necessary as it just did not work for them in the best aviation market prior to C19, therefore I could not see them being successful with that after the pandemic.
 
a350lover
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:23 am

If only they had done this way before.... Norwegian was doing financially fine until they set up the long haul dream in 2013.

Planning to operate 50 B737s in Europe (they say focused in Norway and Spain) is quite optimistic. I wonder how big was the total Norwegian network (in planes) before covid? How big was OSL base? There are rumors they might be looking at 12-15 planes in Spain divided into BCN, ALC and AGP.

They might try to operate intra-Scandinavian sectors via Spanish crews in lower wages. That's how it all started in AGP and ALC when they first stepped into the Spanish market.

All the best luck to them. They are a truly nice competitor hopefully for Europe we don't see them falling down.
 
concordeforever
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:46 am

Maybe they see an opportunity in Spain if the Air Europa/IAG buyout goes through and they have to give up some European slots?
 
filipinoavgeek
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:47 am

Probably a bit too early to tell but how likely is it that at least some 787s will be unable to find new homes and will have to be scrapped? Or is it more likely that all of them will find a new airline eventually? I still have memories from the A380 mess where retired frames appear almost certain to be scrapped instead of flying again.
RIP 9V-SKA
2007 - 2019
 
Someone83
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:56 am

a350lover wrote:

Planning to operate 50 B737s in Europe (they say focused in Norway and Spain) is quite optimistic. I wonder how big was the total Norwegian network (in planes) before covid? How big was OSL base? There are rumors they might be looking at 12-15 planes in Spain divided into BCN, ALC and AGP.


Focus is both on Norway and the Nordic markets

Their pre-covid planned Nordic base 737 ops was like this:

OSL/BGO/TRD/SVG:41
ARN: 14
CPH:12
HEL:7


Total 73 aircraft. So it is rather close to the planned 70 aircraft in 2022
 
Ronaldo747
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:03 am

filipinoavgeek wrote:
Probably a bit too early to tell but how likely is it that at least some 787s will be unable to find new homes and will have to be scrapped? Or is it more likely that all of them will find a new airline eventually? I still have memories from the A380 mess where retired frames appear almost certain to be scrapped instead of flying again.


They may be stored for a while until things are getting better, but a lot of airlines could take them. All airlines who flying 767s, 777-200s, A340s, older A330s could replace their fleets with them for a very good price. Others like BA, AA, ANA could add them to their existing fleet.

For example, this may be a possibility for Lufthansa and Swiss to replace their A340s, for Austrian to replace the 767s and 777s and for Brussels, even Eurowings in a very quick manner and they have a homogeneous fleet.

Hell, there are a lot of possibilities for using them. Exciting times ahead!
 
sevenair
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:08 am

Where do things stand with LGW shorthaul?
 
VSMUT
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:15 am

filipinoavgeek wrote:
Probably a bit too early to tell but how likely is it that at least some 787s will be unable to find new homes and will have to be scrapped? Or is it more likely that all of them will find a new airline eventually? I still have memories from the A380 mess where retired frames appear almost certain to be scrapped instead of flying again.


I personally doubt that will be the case, but they do have some semi-early 787-8s. The oldest they have is line number 102. Those would be the most risky.

But more likely they will contribute to the early retirement of some A330s or 777-200s or the remaining passenger 767s still left in service. The various ACMI 767 and 777 operators in the US could also be likely candidates (think Omni or iAero).
 
B777LRF
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:17 am

sevenair wrote:
Where do things stand with LGW shorthaul?


Presser says they will concentrate on the Nordic market, so it's probably safe to assume bases outside of the Nordics will be closed. LGW will, I assume, continue being served out of the Nordics (ARN, BGO, CPH, HEL, OSL).
Signature. You just read one.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:40 am

B777LRF wrote:
sevenair wrote:
Where do things stand with LGW shorthaul?


Presser says they will concentrate on the Nordic market, so it's probably safe to assume bases outside of the Nordics will be closed. LGW will, I assume, continue being served out of the Nordics (ARN, BGO, CPH, HEL, OSL).


That's what I expect as well. The base will be closed, it'll remain as a destination only. They'll keep the amount of slots they need for that and do away with the rest.

On the other hand, if they can get enough money for their Gatwick slots they might sell them all and move their London operations to elsewhere. Long ago, before Norwegian flew to Gatwick, they used Stansted. They could just move their London operations back to Stansted, who knows?
 
cityshuttle
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:06 am

Would this be the chance for B6 to take up more LGW slots and cancel STN ?
 
RalXWB
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:07 am

So 37 787s will hit the used widebody market?
 
RexBanner
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:14 am

a350lover wrote:
They might try to operate intra-Scandinavian sectors via Spanish crews in lower wages. That's how it all started in AGP and ALC when they first stepped into the Spanish market.

All the best luck to them. They are a truly nice competitor hopefully for Europe we don't see them falling down.


Undercutting established operator via the use of social dumping. Yeah what a truly nice competitor :roll:
 
MCTSET
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:22 am

Yes weak Norwegian sells there valuable LGW slots to go set up shop next to the most fierce competitor in Europe at STN.
 
jonas12345
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:40 am

MCTSET wrote:
Yes weak Norwegian sells there valuable LGW slots to go set up shop next to the most fierce competitor in Europe at STN.


i thought that the slots were secured against a loan?
 
jfk777
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:06 pm

Sorry to see Norwegian and their Red Nosed 787 leave Gatwick. Norwegian became a large airline in the UK to USA market plus many routes from the USA to CDG, FCO, AMS and BCN. They even flew from Gatwick to EZE & GRU. Too bad it ended the way it did.
 
Someone83
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:15 pm

jonas12345 wrote:
MCTSET wrote:
Yes weak Norwegian sells there valuable LGW slots to go set up shop next to the most fierce competitor in Europe at STN.


i thought that the slots were secured against a loan?


Was, might be a key word here. Remember that during their bankruptcy restructuring the debt will afterwards probably look very different
 
JeremyXWB
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:06 pm

Forgive my ignorance, but does this mean that their UK subsidiary will be shut down since DI operates a 787-only fleet (as far as I remember)?
 
af773atmsp
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:11 pm

I wish I had gotten photos and videos of their 787s when I was in Oslo in 2015 and 2018, especially the latter year when it seemed like times were booming for them but it was actually a giant bubble.
DC10-40,MD88,A319,A320,A332,717,722,733,737,738,752,ATR-72,736,788,74M
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Someone83
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:43 pm

JeremyXWB wrote:
Forgive my ignorance, but does this mean that their UK subsidiary will be shut down since DI operates a 787-only fleet (as far as I remember)?


It will most likely be liquidated
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:11 pm

Its a sad, but inevitable day for Norwegian. They make no mention of future fleet types, one would imagine it will be built around the 737-800. Is there nay information on when Norway and EASA might clear the MAX for service?

MCTSET wrote:
Yes weak Norwegian sells there valuable LGW slots to go set up shop next to the most fierce competitor in Europe at STN.


Are the LGW slots even worth much anymore? There should be many temporary slots available at LGW for 2021. Wizz are about the only airline that I can see being interested in large numbers and a fair number of smaller European airlines have move or consolidated their London services at Heathrow. My understanding is that slots will be grandfathered to 2022 if they are not proposed to be used by the end of February 2021. Any slots proposed to be used beyond that date must be used for 40% of the IATA 2021 summer season season to be retained for summer 2022, so Norwegian should retain them as long as they remain an operational airline in some form.
 
kxngb
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:13 pm

BrianDromey wrote:
Its a sad, but inevitable day for Norwegian. They make no mention of future fleet types, one would imagine it will be built around the 737-800. Is there nay information on when Norway and EASA might clear the MAX for service?

MCTSET wrote:
Yes weak Norwegian sells there valuable LGW slots to go set up shop next to the most fierce competitor in Europe at STN.


Are the LGW slots even worth much anymore? There should be many temporary slots available at LGW for 2021. Wizz are about the only airline that I can see being interested in large numbers and a fair number of smaller European airlines have move or consolidated their London services at Heathrow. My understanding is that slots will be grandfathered to 2022 if they are not proposed to be used by the end of February 2021. Any slots proposed to be used beyond that date must be used for 40% of the IATA 2021 summer season season to be retained for summer 2022, so Norwegian should retain them as long as they remain an operational airline in some form.


I would say Gatwick is probably the most affected international airport so far. It has lost a lot of its chunk of services, Norwegian, BA short haul and some long haul, reduction in Easyjet Flying, Cathay pulling out.
 
MCTSET
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:29 pm

kxngb wrote:
BrianDromey wrote:
Its a sad, but inevitable day for Norwegian. They make no mention of future fleet types, one would imagine it will be built around the 737-800. Is there nay information on when Norway and EASA might clear the MAX for service?

MCTSET wrote:
Yes weak Norwegian sells there valuable LGW slots to go set up shop next to the most fierce competitor in Europe at STN.


Are the LGW slots even worth much anymore? There should be many temporary slots available at LGW for 2021. Wizz are about the only airline that I can see being interested in large numbers and a fair number of smaller European airlines have move or consolidated their London services at Heathrow. My understanding is that slots will be grandfathered to 2022 if they are not proposed to be used by the end of February 2021. Any slots proposed to be used beyond that date must be used for 40% of the IATA 2021 summer season season to be retained for summer 2022, so Norwegian should retain them as long as they remain an operational airline in some form.


I would say Gatwick is probably the most affected international airport so far. It has lost a lot of its chunk of services, Norwegian, BA short haul and some long haul, reduction in Easyjet Flying, Cathay pulling out.



I thought easy secured extra slots and placing 3 more aircraft.
 
debonair
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:32 pm

Someone83 wrote:
JeremyXWB wrote:
Forgive my ignorance, but does this mean that their UK subsidiary will be shut down since DI operates a 787-only fleet (as far as I remember)?


It will most likely be liquidated


Will this be the end for NORWEGIAN LONG HAUL AS, IATA-code DU, as well? Without any aircraft left, there is no need for an own, independent AOC, right!?
 
dcajet
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:33 am

jfk777 wrote:
Sorry to see Norwegian and their Red Nosed 787 leave Gatwick. Norwegian became a large airline in the UK to USA market plus many routes from the USA to CDG, FCO, AMS and BCN. They even flew from Gatwick to EZE & GRU. Too bad it ended the way it did.


GIG, not GRU. Norwegian flew to EZE for around 20 months, daily, and to GIG just for a few months before the onset of the pandemic, 3-4x w.

Incidentally there are 3 738 ex Norwegian Argentina still stored at EZE. DN sold its routes and operations in Argentina to JetSmart but the 737s were not part of the transaction..
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
a350lover
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:47 pm

From internal source at Norwegian when management was asked "Do we know at this point where are the aircrafts going to be based"?

"With the decision now made on the number of aircraft we will operate this summer (50), the relevant departments are now reviewing the schedule scenarios to confirm the most efficient base network across the countries which we will operate. We will continue to have based operations across both Norway and Spain".

Although they said their focus will remain in the Nordics, that statement makes me think they may not be looking at re-opening bases out of Norway other than those they previously had in Spain. This may mean lower labor costs for them. Hard to predict any realistic scenario in covid times, even harder when it comes to this airline.

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