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ExMilitaryEng
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:51 pm

To HVNandrew:

All you say is correct, particularly for the south shore parts that are closer to Montreal. But even then, crossing those bridges in the mornings (when most flights depart) is brutal most of the time - much worst than any possible border delays. Then if you are a Nexus holder - your travel time to BTV or PBG is more predictable (and often shorter when adding a safe buffer time to cross morning bridges).

Most of Canadian's using BTV / PBG are located on Montreal's south shore. As mentionned a few posts above, they were indeed attracted by relatively cheaper fares from BTV/PBG (however YUL's exorbitant fares have come down a lot in the last couple years, making BTV/PBG less attractive for many destinations).

YUL will become much more accessible with the opening of the REM rapid transit - coupled with much cheaper parking options (at REM's stations) versus driving all the way to YUL, BTV or PBG.

So in all, BTV and PBG will indeed lose many Canadian customers with the opening of the REM.
 
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:45 am

I don't think rapid transit will matter at all for BTV or PBG. You don't see single people or couples doing the drive in masses. Everyone is correct fares have come down enough at YUL the single people are not making the trip, they haven't for years now. The vast majority are families and the savings adds up quickly for them still. They live in suburbia not in the city centers anyway. You are not going to see a mini van park at a train station and load grandma, three kids and all that luggage on a train. Those customers when the border reopens and they want to go to Florida will make the drive. Customers save on taxes and multiply that by say 6 and the ability to walk to the plane at BTV and PBG is not only cheap but super convenient and low stress. The families will continue making the treck for Florida whenever travel comes back,
 
737Jason
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:42 am

Hello, all. I have been flying out of MHT my entire life, and I remember in the peak in 2005, i flew on a 757 to ORD. What happened to UA at MHT, and will they increase ops in the future? Thank you!
 
mjgbtv
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:33 pm

737Jason wrote:
Hello, all. I have been flying out of MHT my entire life, and I remember in the peak in 2005, i flew on a 757 to ORD. What happened to UA at MHT, and will they increase ops in the future? Thank you!


Part of it is probably leaking passengers to BTV. 10 or 15 years ago fares at BTV were high enough that it was an attractive option to drive to MHT from Burlington and fly. Fares at BTV are much more competitive now.
 
deltairlines
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:52 pm

mjgbtv wrote:
737Jason wrote:
Hello, all. I have been flying out of MHT my entire life, and I remember in the peak in 2005, i flew on a 757 to ORD. What happened to UA at MHT, and will they increase ops in the future? Thank you!


Part of it is probably leaking passengers to BTV. 10 or 15 years ago fares at BTV were high enough that it was an attractive option to drive to MHT from Burlington and fly. Fares at BTV are much more competitive now.


BTV is a SMALL part of the MHT equation. It's over 2h30 to go from Burlington to Manchester, and there's not a whole lot in between the two - the Lebanon catchment area is right at 200k passengers and is really the tipping point where someone would reasonably decide between BTV and MHT.

The spike in the heart for United at MHT was BOS becoming much more viable. United at one point was running 3 757s (and a 737/A320 mix for the 4th and occasional 5th frequency) to ORD, filling those planes up with fares that were low (especially compared to BOS), both to Chicago (where WN was running 2-3x/day to MDW) and beyond. Between low fares at MHT (compared to BOS which at the time the only decent LCC presence was AirTran) and getting to BOS being a royal pain from the North Side made it pretty easy to fill up planes.

Around mid-2000s, you had the double whammy of the Big Dig finally being done (no more traffic issues) and JetBlue becoming a big player in the BOS market (now you've actually got LCC competition), with WN following in at the end of the decade. All of a sudden, you've got more flight options at the same (or lower) price in Boston, and the market is naturally going to gravitate towards that.

At the end, I'd expect UA to remain in MHT with some token RJs to IAD now that AA is running MHT-ORD. MHT at the end of the day is in a Bermuda Triangle so to speak; the Merrimack Valley in Massachusetts was a huge draw for MHT and now that traffic has shifted to BOS; if you're on the Seacoast, you've got better options at BOS or PWM (which until recently was the ultimate LCC Avoidance Zone, now you've got WN in there themselves plus Frontier and seasonally JetBlue). As I said, if you're in the Lebanon area for those 200k people, you're already split between MHT (going down) and BTV (going up), so that does siphon a small amount of traffic.

This isn't to diminish the growth that's happened at BTV in the past decade; the market has grown organically during that time, capturing travelers from Quebec as well as Burlington becoming much more of a tourist destination and selling it really well (which is something I'm glad to see, the work they've done in the last decade in Downtown Burlington has been outstanding in making it a great little college town in the mountains).
 
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:37 pm

737Jason wrote:
Hello, all. I have been flying out of MHT my entire life, and I remember in the peak in 2005, i flew on a 757 to ORD.

It felt even more glorious, like an newly discovered treasure, rough on the edges but so cool to find, back in the 90s when you could park literally across the street from the terminal, heave your bag onto a belt and board the plane with no TSA security theater. Then you would board whatever ratty aircraft USAir had kicking around (DC9, 737, F100, whatever) and fly to the great shopping mall in Western Pennsylvania with an airport attached to it, PIT. Many of my flights from there were West Coast so then you'd be likely to hit a 757.

deltairlines wrote:
Around mid-2000s, you had the double whammy of the Big Dig finally being done (no more traffic issues) and JetBlue becoming a big player in the BOS market (now you've actually got LCC competition), with WN following in at the end of the decade. All of a sudden, you've got more flight options at the same (or lower) price in Boston, and the market is naturally going to gravitate towards that.

The triple whammy was the US6 becoming the US3 and those US3 all taking a trip through bankruptcy. In the aftermath there actually was room in places like BOS or PHL for growth, and there was little willingness or ability of the US3 to be competitive at emerging airports such as MHT or PIT.

It sucks for all the airline employees who left the industry or had major career setbacks during that period, and for all the airports that did all the time consuming steps of getting planning permission and financial backing to expand airports based on the old norms (e.g. MHT and PIT and many others), but it's a brutal industry. Now we have a nice but very under-utilized set of facilities sprinkled all around the country, and pressure on the new emerging airports to spend big to upgrade facilities not knowing if there will be yet another swing in the market by the time they can pay off all their spending. They should keep in mind that it's a brutal industry.
 
mjgbtv
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:31 pm

deltairlines wrote:
mjgbtv wrote:
737Jason wrote:
Hello, all. I have been flying out of MHT my entire life, and I remember in the peak in 2005, i flew on a 757 to ORD. What happened to UA at MHT, and will they increase ops in the future? Thank you!


Part of it is probably leaking passengers to BTV. 10 or 15 years ago fares at BTV were high enough that it was an attractive option to drive to MHT from Burlington and fly. Fares at BTV are much more competitive now.


BTV is a SMALL part of the MHT equation. It's over 2h30 to go from Burlington to Manchester, and there's not a whole lot in between the two - the Lebanon catchment area is right at 200k passengers and is really the tipping point where someone would reasonably decide between BTV and MHT.

...

This isn't to diminish the growth that's happened at BTV in the past decade; the market has grown organically during that time, capturing travelers from Quebec as well as Burlington becoming much more of a tourist destination and selling it really well (which is something I'm glad to see, the work they've done in the last decade in Downtown Burlington has been outstanding in making it a great little college town in the mountains).


I won't disagree that BTV is a smaller part of the equation, but I live in Burlington and I have driven to MHT to fly more than once and I know that others have done the same. And I think I'm a pretty reasonable person, so I'm sure this is more than just the Lebanon catchment.
 
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ChrisNH38
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:31 pm

I’m really surprised that Breeze hasn’t been more forthcoming about their plans. I guess in this environment they don’t need to be. A cautious hope that they serve some New England airport not named Logan
 
airlineworker
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:52 pm

Breeze plans to offer point-to-point service between secondary airports, potentially including;

https://airmarketgroup.com/2020/07/13/b ... s-to-2021/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeze_Airways



Austin–Bergstrom International Airport
Blue Grass Airport
Bradley International Airport
Boston Logan International Airport
Fort Worth Meacham International Airport
Gary/Chicago International Airport
Hollywood Burbank Airport
Lehigh Valley International Airport
Jacksonville International Airport
Long Island's Islip Airport and Farmingdale/Republic Airport
Louisville International Airport
McCarran International Airport
MidAmerica St. Louis Airport
Milwaukee Mitchell International Airport
Oakland International Airport
Ontario International Airport
Orlando Sanford International Airport
Phoenix–Mesa Gateway Airport
Tweed New Haven Airport
Providence T.F. Green Airport
Wilkes-Barre International Airport
Sarasota Bradenton International Airport
Seattle-Tacoma Airport
St. Pete–Clearwater International Airport
Stewart International Airport
Trenton Mercer Airport
 
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:30 pm

airlineworker wrote:
Breeze plans to offer point-to-point service between secondary airports, potentially including;

I don't know that I'd call BOS or SEA a secondary airport.
 
RL757PVD
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:55 pm

airlineworker wrote:
Breeze plans to offer point-to-point service between secondary airports, potentially including;

https://airmarketgroup.com/2020/07/13/b ... s-to-2021/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeze_Airways



Austin–Bergstrom International Airport
Blue Grass Airport
Bradley International Airport
Boston Logan International Airport
Fort Worth Meacham International Airport
Gary/Chicago International Airport
Hollywood Burbank Airport
Lehigh Valley International Airport
Jacksonville International Airport
Long Island's Islip Airport and Farmingdale/Republic Airport
Louisville International Airport
McCarran International Airport
MidAmerica St. Louis Airport
Milwaukee Mitchell International Airport
Oakland International Airport
Ontario International Airport
Orlando Sanford International Airport
Phoenix–Mesa Gateway Airport
Tweed New Haven Airport
Providence T.F. Green Airport
Wilkes-Barre International Airport
Sarasota Bradenton International Airport
Seattle-Tacoma Airport
St. Pete–Clearwater International Airport
Stewart International Airport
Trenton Mercer Airport


This is an old list compiled of referenced hypotheticals I think the only somewhat likely is ISP which is references as maintenance base in their DOT filings
 
deltairlines
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:49 pm

ChrisNH38 wrote:
I’m really surprised that Breeze hasn’t been more forthcoming about their plans. I guess in this environment they don’t need to be. A cautious hope that they serve some New England airport not named Logan


Given that Breeze has only recently (since the start of the year) started to post positions for mid-level management commercial positions (such as Revenue Management), I'm thinking that they're only starting to think about actually building a route network (including the where and when each city would launch).
 
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LotsaRunway
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:25 pm

RL757PVD wrote:
airlineworker wrote:
Breeze plans to offer point-to-point service between secondary airports, potentially including;

https://airmarketgroup.com/2020/07/13/b ... s-to-2021/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeze_Airways



Austin–Bergstrom International Airport
Blue Grass Airport
Bradley International Airport
Boston Logan International Airport
Fort Worth Meacham International Airport
Gary/Chicago International Airport
Hollywood Burbank Airport
Lehigh Valley International Airport
Jacksonville International Airport
Long Island's Islip Airport and Farmingdale/Republic Airport
Louisville International Airport
McCarran International Airport
MidAmerica St. Louis Airport
Milwaukee Mitchell International Airport
Oakland International Airport
Ontario International Airport
Orlando Sanford International Airport
Phoenix–Mesa Gateway Airport
Tweed New Haven Airport
Providence T.F. Green Airport
Wilkes-Barre International Airport
Sarasota Bradenton International Airport
Seattle-Tacoma Airport
St. Pete–Clearwater International Airport
Stewart International Airport
Trenton Mercer Airport


This is an old list compiled of referenced hypotheticals I think the only somewhat likely is ISP which is references as maintenance base in their DOT filings

I agree with your assessment. If I were a Breeze planning exec, I wouldn't give out a list of exactly where I'm going to serve before announcing actual flights. I would definitely throw out some locations that take the dogs off the scent to keep the competition from blocking us before we even get started. A number of the potential linkages on this list would put them directly against Allegiant. I'm not sure I would run my first flights directly against anyone.

mjgbtv wrote:
737Jason wrote:
Hello, all. I have been flying out of MHT my entire life, and I remember in the peak in 2005, i flew on a 757 to ORD. What happened to UA at MHT, and will they increase ops in the future? Thank you!


Part of it is probably leaking passengers to BTV. 10 or 15 years ago fares at BTV were high enough that it was an attractive option to drive to MHT from Burlington and fly. Fares at BTV are much more competitive now.

BTV at the time also had a robust collection of UA flights to ORD, largely 727-200s. Some people did drive to MHT in those days to fly WN, but I think CO, UA, NW, and US held their own pretty well at BTV.
 
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ChrisNH38
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:39 pm

LotsaRunway wrote:
Part of it is probably leaking passengers to BTV. 10 or 15 years ago fares at BTV were high enough that it was an attractive option to drive to MHT from Burlington and fly. Fares at BTV are much more competitive now.

BTV at the time also had a robust collection of UA flights to ORD, largely 727-200s. Some people did drive to MHT in those days to fly WN, but I think CO, UA, NW, and US held their own pretty well at BTV.[/quote]

Many times as a MHT passenger my UA flights would land at BTV before heading to ORD. Also, I flew on UA Flight 1230 many times, which coming from ORD in the morning would go to PWM before coming back through MHT. Then nonstop from there back to ORD. These ‘triangular’ routes were not uncommon. Also, BGR-MHT-ORD was in the mix, as well as others. These were usually on a mix of 722s and 733s.
 
mjgbtv
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:36 am

LotsaRunway wrote:
BTV at the time also had a robust collection of UA flights to ORD, largely 727-200s. Some people did drive to MHT in those days to fly WN, but I think CO, UA, NW, and US held their own pretty well at BTV.


It was UA that I drove to MHT to fly twice. The problem was not the service but the price. As I recall UA was about 60% more from BTV for the same route. That's a lot of money for a group of several people.
 
mjgbtv
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:38 am

mjgbtv wrote:
LotsaRunway wrote:
BTV at the time also had a robust collection of UA flights to ORD, largely 727-200s. Some people did drive to MHT in those days to fly WN, but I think CO, UA, NW, and US held their own pretty well at BTV.


It was UA that I drove to MHT to fly twice. The problem was not the service but the price. As I recall UA was about 60% more from BTV for the same route. That's a lot of money for a group of several people.


I recall ORD-BTV-BGR being a fixture for quite a while.
 
B595
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:59 am

I’m with mjgbtv, I think there’s meaningful leakage from BTV to neighboring airports, just based on my own experience. In traveling to Burlington dozens of times over the years I’ve used BOS, ALB, and even YUL as alternates to BTV. Sometimes for better fares, sometimes for the convenience of a nonstop, and in the case of YUL, partly for the foreign flavor. I’ve never ultimately used MHT, but I’ve always checked it during my planning. I would probably have used MHT more over the years if Southwest could get me where I’m going in 1-stop instead of 2, but they rarely can. In my last dozen trips to Burlington I’ve flown into BTV about half the time and into BOS the other half.

BTW, great to see this thread off to a fast start in the new year.
 
EricBTV
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:12 pm

mjgbtv wrote:
LotsaRunway wrote:
BTV at the time also had a robust collection of UA flights to ORD, largely 727-200s. Some people did drive to MHT in those days to fly WN, but I think CO, UA, NW, and US held their own pretty well at BTV.


It was UA that I drove to MHT to fly twice. The problem was not the service but the price. As I recall UA was about 60% more from BTV for the same route. That's a lot of money for a group of several people.

As another BTV local, I completely agree with this. I flew BTV-CLE regularly on UA and CO before that and would look for cheaper fares from MHT or ALB. Along these lines, while probably not a major hit, I wonder what effect UA's de-hubbing of CLE had as I believe there were multiple daily flights to MHT and others in the region. My perception is that at least at BTV these flights were just absorbed to other hubs without adding much capacity, if any.

To the previous point about the time and distance from BTV to MHT, while it is 2h30, it's an easy highway drive between the two airports which is something that can't be said for ALB, for example. That said, the likelihood of finding both favorable times and fares from MHT, including on WN, has decreased significantly in recent years.
 
B595
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:31 am

I connected in CLE several times myself back in the days of Continental Express ERJs on BTV-CLE. I remember it being a pleasant experience, especially with the brand new Terminal D for the Express flights (now closed). That was a really nice facility. Far better than Comair’s terminal in CVG and the 3rd-world Terminal A at EWR. Granted my connections were all in the summer, not the winter when the lake-effect snows make the airport less reliable. But there was definitely something to be said for connecting through the less busy secondary hubs (CLE, CVG, PIT, and even SYR way back when). BTV still has a lot of options for its size, but I miss those secondary hub choices.
 
mjgbtv
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:04 pm

On another topic, it appears from the terms of the B6-AA NEA that B6 will be staying at BTV. I'm not sure how it would apply to PWM. ORH is closed but maybe that was already confirmed.
 
lat41
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:05 pm

mjgbtv wrote:
On another topic, it appears from the terms of the B6-AA NEA that B6 will be staying at BTV. I'm not sure how it would apply to PWM. ORH is closed but maybe that was already confirmed.

Where can the terms or a summary of this NEA be read? I read bits and pieces on what prople think will play out at different cities but no statement. It referred to BTV or other cities specifically?
 
B595
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:51 pm

lat41 wrote:
mjgbtv wrote:
On another topic, it appears from the terms of the B6-AA NEA that B6 will be staying at BTV. I'm not sure how it would apply to PWM. ORH is closed but maybe that was already confirmed.

Where can the terms or a summary of this NEA be read? I read bits and pieces on what prople think will play out at different cities but no statement. It referred to BTV or other cities specifically?

There’s a PDF file at this link:
https://www.transportation.gov/office-policy/aviation-policy/termination-informal-review-americanjetblue-northeast-alliance
 
Cboyle
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:48 pm

Heard in the WN group that G4 is in talks with both HVN and ORH
 
airlineworker
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:34 pm

Cboyle wrote:
Heard in the WN group that G4 is in talks with both HVN and ORH


Hope something comes from this, G4 has been in talks with HVN and if they can operate off EYW and it's 5076 foot runway with a 275 foot displaced threshold at one end, HVN with 5600 feet should work. HVN's displaced threshold is to be removed soon.
 
PVD523
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:18 pm

DL has loaded an updated March schedule. PVD service will resume March 2nd. Appears to be 2x 717s to ATL on most days, 1x on Tues and Wed. Will be a much welcome return. Hoping DTW will return later in the spring.
 
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LotsaRunway
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 07, 2021 3:08 pm

Those in the area of MHT and want to see a rare visitor, UA is sending a 753 military charter. Should be on the ground between 11 and 1 today.
 
tomaheath
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 07, 2021 3:13 pm

LotsaRunway wrote:
Those in the area of MHT and want to see a rare visitor, UA is sending a 753 military charter. Should be on the ground between 11 and 1 today.

Thanks!
 
mjgbtv
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:00 am

LotsaRunway wrote:
Those in the area of MHT and want to see a rare visitor, UA is sending a 753 military charter. Should be on the ground between 11 and 1 today.


Not quite so rare, but BTV had 3 Sun Country 738s today, also for military charters, and then later this afternoon a JetBlue A320 diversion from BOS.
 
deltairlines
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:03 am

airlineworker wrote:
Cboyle wrote:
Heard in the WN group that G4 is in talks with both HVN and ORH


Hope something comes from this, G4 has been in talks with HVN and if they can operate off EYW and it's 5076 foot runway with a 275 foot displaced threshold at one end, HVN with 5600 feet should work. HVN's displaced threshold is to be removed soon.


G4 would be a return to ORH - they had Florida flights 15 years ago (can't believe it's been that long).

I think ORH and HVN would be good markets for Allegiant - you've got a good population base that can support Florida flying and you're a decent ways from the major airports that currently have the service.

Now that Allegiant has the A319, that should be easy enough to get in and out of HVN.
 
Portlander
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:43 pm

Delta has just announced daily non stop service to MSP starting on May 28 utilizing A319 aircraft.
 
RL757PVD
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:47 pm

PVD-MSP has also been added, I think a few other cities in the mix too, clearly targeting SY.
 
sargester
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:20 pm

American is adding MIA-PWM service starting June 5th
 
RL757PVD
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:32 pm

sargester wrote:
American is adding MIA-PWM service starting June 5th


Its actually an extension of the Saturday only E175 that's operating this spring, the difference this is actually new capacity as the current one is in place of a PHL flight. This time it will be a turn from MIA instead meaning it will feed the south America bank as opposed to the morning Caribbean bank
 
miaami
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:22 pm

MIA PWM Sat June 5 10:25 a.m. 1:45 p.m. E175
PWM MIA Sat June 5 2:30 p.m. 5:59 p.m. E175
 
Fex180
Posts: 310
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:52 pm

No indication whether PWM-MSP is seasonal or year round. Anyone know?? An A319 seems like a lot of lift for that route.
 
Cboyle
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Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:32 pm

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:58 pm

Fex180 wrote:
No indication whether PWM-MSP is seasonal or year round. Anyone know?? An A319 seems like a lot of lift for that route.

It is seasonal
 
Cboyle
Posts: 163
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:32 pm

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:34 pm

As part of their huge expansion, G4 is adding PSM-BNA beginning may 27 and BGR-FLL beginning may 28
 
tomaheath
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 10, 2021 1:08 am

New cargo terminal coming to Manchester.

https://www.flymanchester.com/news/mht- ... -facility/
 
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ChrisNH38
Posts: 374
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 10, 2021 2:42 am

MHT surely knows that its struggles on the passenger side won’t end now if they haven’t over the past 16 years (2005 was the high-water mark). So with A-Prime centers sprouting up like mushrooms in southern NH and northern Mass, it’s no surprise that they’d want to use MHT for their planes. The article says ‘multi-tenant,’ but I think it will just be for A-Prime planes only. FedEx and UPS have their own infrastructure in place anyway.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:37 am

BTV has alot of overlap in southern/central vt and New York with ALB. I think BTV competes and loses alot more passengers with ALB and PBG than MHT. Lake Placid is a pretty large traffic generator (in normal times) for example, punches thousands of times above its weight because of all the events and athletes/officials/spectators who go there to train/compete. Theres alot of markets with people and traffic demand where BTV and ALB are the two options.

PBG is pretty much the LCC airport for northern NY and VT. Everyone in the Burlington area looks at PBG if heading to Florida now. No one thinks or considers MHT. MHT and southwest is what they would have done in the olden days. Things have changed. I don't know a single person who has driven to MHT in the last five years. I and pretty much everyone i know has used PBG to head to florida at some point. PBG has replaced MHT as the LCC florida airport. MHT has been replaced by PBG in the Burlington area for the LCC florida airport you consider if BTV is expensive.

MHT is really on a different path its really a southwest dominated airport with a small set of destinations. BTV fares have really come down alot in the last few years. Fares have noticeably become much more competitive. All flights go to a hub, its a legacy carrier airport but has great connections. MHT always seems way higher fares now unless your headed to a Florida southwest city. The network carriers really don't seem interested in MHT and southwest has noticed and adjusted fares accordingly.

Prior to Covid i think BTV had record setting numbers and full flights didnt they? Security lines were getting longer and longer prior to covid. BTV really was rolling prior to covid things were really looking up. 2 airlines were flying to Denver non-stop seasonally which was very exciting and fun! The connector between the two concourses really is a huge improvement! It was so badly needed for multiple reasons. Once this pandemic is over and traffic rebounds i think BTV is in a really good spot to grow.
 
mjgbtv
Posts: 1120
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:18 am

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 10, 2021 1:27 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
BTV has alot of overlap in southern/central vt and New York with ALB. I think BTV competes and loses alot more passengers with ALB and PBG than MHT. Lake Placid is a pretty large traffic generator (in normal times) for example, punches thousands of times above its weight because of all the events and athletes/officials/spectators who go there to train/compete. Theres alot of markets with people and traffic demand where BTV and ALB are the two options.

PBG is pretty much the LCC airport for northern NY and VT. Everyone in the Burlington area looks at PBG if heading to Florida now. No one thinks or considers MHT. MHT and southwest is what they would have done in the olden days. Things have changed. I don't know a single person who has driven to MHT in the last five years. I and pretty much everyone i know has used PBG to head to florida at some point. PBG has replaced MHT as the LCC florida airport. MHT has been replaced by PBG in the Burlington area for the LCC florida airport you consider if BTV is expensive.

MHT is really on a different path its really a southwest dominated airport with a small set of destinations. BTV fares have really come down alot in the last few years. Fares have noticeably become much more competitive. All flights go to a hub, its a legacy carrier airport but has great connections. MHT always seems way higher fares now unless your headed to a Florida southwest city. The network carriers really don't seem interested in MHT and southwest has noticed and adjusted fares accordingly.

Prior to Covid i think BTV had record setting numbers and full flights didnt they? Security lines were getting longer and longer prior to covid. BTV really was rolling prior to covid things were really looking up. 2 airlines were flying to Denver non-stop seasonally which was very exciting and fun! The connector between the two concourses really is a huge improvement! It was so badly needed for multiple reasons. Once this pandemic is over and traffic rebounds i think BTV is in a really good spot to grow.


Yes, BTV had a record or near-record year in 2019 and I think traffic should rebound fairly well. It looks like they are moving forward with the security consolidation project.

As for LCCs, what about F9? They are flying BTV-MCO now, at least seasonally.
 
mjgbtv
Posts: 1120
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:18 am

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 10, 2021 1:35 pm

Speaking of cargo, I have noticed that Wiggins is no longer flying to BTV. It appears that a Legacy Airways Saab is now the UPS feeder. Does anyone know why the change? It looks like Wiggins is still flying other routes from MHT.
 
tomaheath
Posts: 702
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:58 pm

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 10, 2021 3:02 pm

mjgbtv wrote:
Speaking of cargo, I have noticed that Wiggins is no longer flying to BTV. It appears that a Legacy Airways Saab is now the UPS feeder. Does anyone know why the change? It looks like Wiggins is still flying other routes from MHT.

I can tell you that they’ve parked a few aircraft on the ramp some missing engines.
 
MO11
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Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 10, 2021 3:32 pm

tomaheath wrote:
mjgbtv wrote:
Speaking of cargo, I have noticed that Wiggins is no longer flying to BTV. It appears that a Legacy Airways Saab is now the UPS feeder. Does anyone know why the change? It looks like Wiggins is still flying other routes from MHT.

I can tell you that they’ve parked a few aircraft on the ramp some missing engines.


Most of the Bandeirantes have been removed from service. Last summer/fall, Freight Runners took over three of the runs from Manchester.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 26580
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 10, 2021 3:49 pm

tomaheath wrote:
New cargo terminal coming to Manchester.

https://www.flymanchester.com/news/mht- ... -facility/

Thanks for the post! Exciting news for an airplane nerd like me!

ChrisNH38 wrote:
MHT surely knows that its struggles on the passenger side won’t end now if they haven’t over the past 16 years (2005 was the high-water mark). So with A-Prime centers sprouting up like mushrooms in southern NH and northern Mass, it’s no surprise that they’d want to use MHT for their planes. The article says ‘multi-tenant,’ but I think it will just be for A-Prime planes only. FedEx and UPS have their own infrastructure in place anyway.

Indeed, we've all pondered the future of MHT for quite a while now.

Seems the trend towards e-commerce has only grown during the covid pandemic. The location is very good for road traffic with I-93, Rt 3, Rt 101 and I-89 all nearby. Seems like MHT is making lemonade out of lemons. If it helps pay down the debt via ground lease payments, landing fees etc then it's a win for other users of the airport. It's also good for local employment.

I just compared the picture in the article to a Google Map top down view and then a street-level view going along the S-curve on Green Drive ( ref: https://goo.gl/maps/heFCqHqev4VWwNYC9 ). Seems the only stuff in that area is an unmarked hangar building and some parking which looks like employee/contractor parking. I guess these will get ripped up then replaced?
 
tomaheath
Posts: 702
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:58 pm

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 10, 2021 5:41 pm

Revelation wrote:
tomaheath wrote:
New cargo terminal coming to Manchester.

https://www.flymanchester.com/news/mht- ... -facility/

Thanks for the post! Exciting news for an airplane nerd like me!

ChrisNH38 wrote:
MHT surely knows that its struggles on the passenger side won’t end now if they haven’t over the past 16 years (2005 was the high-water mark). So with A-Prime centers sprouting up like mushrooms in southern NH and northern Mass, it’s no surprise that they’d want to use MHT for their planes. The article says ‘multi-tenant,’ but I think it will just be for A-Prime planes only. FedEx and UPS have their own infrastructure in place anyway.

Indeed, we've all pondered the future of MHT for quite a while now.

Seems the trend towards e-commerce has only grown during the covid pandemic. The location is very good for road traffic with I-93, Rt 3, Rt 101 and I-89 all nearby. Seems like MHT is making lemonade out of lemons. If it helps pay down the debt via ground lease payments, landing fees etc then it's a win for other users of the airport. It's also good for local employment.

I just compared the picture in the article to a Google Map top down view and then a street-level view going along the S-curve on Green Drive ( ref: https://goo.gl/maps/heFCqHqev4VWwNYC9 ). Seems the only stuff in that area is an unmarked hangar building and some parking which looks like employee/contractor parking. I guess these will get ripped up then replaced?

I read a comment from the airport on Facebook and they said they were removing two unused hangers and a unused long term parking lot. I know many years ago that area was to be used from a terminal expansion I wonder if that could pose a problem in the very long term.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 26580
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:20 pm

tomaheath wrote:
I read a comment from the airport on Facebook and they said they were removing two unused hangers and a unused long term parking lot.

Yes, all of these are visible from Street View if you just click further down Green Drive. The hangars looked quite underutilized and the parking lot seemed empty (presuming we are talking about Long Term Parking Lot D) at the time the photos were taken. There seems to be a small parking lot between the hangars (employee parking?) that presumably will be relocated.

I know many years ago that area was to be used from a terminal expansion I wonder if that could pose a problem in the very long term.

I guess that's why they are leasing the land. I wonder how long the lease runs for?
 
737tanker
Posts: 400
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:47 am

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:39 pm

tomaheath wrote:
Revelation wrote:
tomaheath wrote:
New cargo terminal coming to Manchester.

https://www.flymanchester.com/news/mht- ... -facility/

Thanks for the post! Exciting news for an airplane nerd like me!

ChrisNH38 wrote:
MHT surely knows that its struggles on the passenger side won’t end now if they haven’t over the past 16 years (2005 was the high-water mark). So with A-Prime centers sprouting up like mushrooms in southern NH and northern Mass, it’s no surprise that they’d want to use MHT for their planes. The article says ‘multi-tenant,’ but I think it will just be for A-Prime planes only. FedEx and UPS have their own infrastructure in place anyway.

Indeed, we've all pondered the future of MHT for quite a while now.

Seems the trend towards e-commerce has only grown during the covid pandemic. The location is very good for road traffic with I-93, Rt 3, Rt 101 and I-89 all nearby. Seems like MHT is making lemonade out of lemons. If it helps pay down the debt via ground lease payments, landing fees etc then it's a win for other users of the airport. It's also good for local employment.

I just compared the picture in the article to a Google Map top down view and then a street-level view going along the S-curve on Green Drive ( ref: https://goo.gl/maps/heFCqHqev4VWwNYC9 ). Seems the only stuff in that area is an unmarked hangar building and some parking which looks like employee/contractor parking. I guess these will get ripped up then replaced?

I read a comment from the airport on Facebook and they said they were removing two unused hangers and a unused long term parking lot. I know many years ago that area was to be used from a terminal expansion I wonder if that could pose a problem in the very long term.

With the amount of available gates and the passenger traffic decreasing an expansion of the terminal is a long way off, if it ever happens.
 
User avatar
LotsaRunway
Posts: 466
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:23 pm

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:57 pm

Revelation wrote:
tomaheath wrote:
New cargo terminal coming to Manchester.

https://www.flymanchester.com/news/mht- ... -facility/

Thanks for the post! Exciting news for an airplane nerd like me!

ChrisNH38 wrote:
MHT surely knows that its struggles on the passenger side won’t end now if they haven’t over the past 16 years (2005 was the high-water mark). So with A-Prime centers sprouting up like mushrooms in southern NH and northern Mass, it’s no surprise that they’d want to use MHT for their planes. The article says ‘multi-tenant,’ but I think it will just be for A-Prime planes only. FedEx and UPS have their own infrastructure in place anyway.

Indeed, we've all pondered the future of MHT for quite a while now.

Seems the trend towards e-commerce has only grown during the covid pandemic. The location is very good for road traffic with I-93, Rt 3, Rt 101 and I-89 all nearby. Seems like MHT is making lemonade out of lemons. If it helps pay down the debt via ground lease payments, landing fees etc then it's a win for other users of the airport. It's also good for local employment.

I just compared the picture in the article to a Google Map top down view and then a street-level view going along the S-curve on Green Drive ( ref: https://goo.gl/maps/heFCqHqev4VWwNYC9 ). Seems the only stuff in that area is an unmarked hangar building and some parking which looks like employee/contractor parking. I guess these will get ripped up then replaced?

This has Amazon written all over it, but the press release suggests that they are only trying to lure more cargo. Really??? This is a huge investment risk if you don't have more than we would hope that somebody will come and fill this cavernous space. They must have everything but a final written agreement from Amazon. I don't see FedEx moving as they have plenty of space for expansion if they wanted. UPS might be a bit tight where they are, but I think there is room that could be used there to expand at a lower cost. Didn't the master plan propose a cargo ramp over near there anyway?

It's been a while since I've seen it, but isn't this space getting close to the old terminal building? Isn't there also some type of antiquated customs facility there too? The new plan also seems to wipe out any terminal expansion in that direction that I think is in the master plan, although that seems pretty far from being needed for quite a while. I still think MHT needs to get moving on a customs facility integrated with their current terminal. They don't have to staff it, but have it there as a carrot. The market will return for international traffic in smaller planes and Logan's Terminal E is already a busy place.
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