The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2021

PVD523 · Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:37 pm

SCHATC422 wrote:
Cboyle wrote:
SCHATC422 wrote:
I was informed yesterday by an undisclosed source that BDL is getting ready for another new airline announcement. When I asked who, I was informed they currently have a NDA and when it will be announced, I was told “should be very soon to be honest”. My guess is Breeze….

Thoughts?

Yeah breeze. Looks like they are hiring at BDL and PVD...

Source?

Seconded. Source, please.

Cboyle · Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:07 pm

PVD523 wrote:
SCHATC422 wrote:
Cboyle wrote:
Yeah breeze. Looks like they are hiring at BDL and PVD...

Source?

Seconded. Source, please.

https://recruiting.adp.com/srccar/publi ... CareerSite

PVD757 · Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:49 pm

They are looking to hire 1 ramp agent at PVD. This must be for JetBlue. Unless I’m missing something, this may be just fake news.

pwm2txlhopper · Sun May 02, 2021 12:15 am

RL757PVD wrote:
Portlander wrote:
Other than a utopia for golfers, not sure what would lure Mainers to the Myrtle Beach area in the summer. Maybe it's about getting South Carolinians up to Maine though Charleston might be a better draw. PVD and PWM have been getting a lot of love recently!

After seeing what happened in Miami first hand this spring when airlines added all the capacity... if I lived in Maine, id plan to escape somewhere else this summer too! I hope the likely one-time massive influx doesn't grind things to a halt there this summer and ruin what makes it special and attractive.

I went to Myrtle Beach out of PSM a couple years ago because I’d never been and it was a cheap quick getaway. Going somewhere where you can swim in the ocean during summer without getting near hypothermia is always a drawing point. And it stays warm at night, unlike Maine, which can still get cool even in summer. Especially nights.

RL757PVD wrote:
Portlander wrote:
Other than a utopia for golfers, not sure what would lure Mainers to the Myrtle Beach area in the summer. Maybe it's about getting South Carolinians up to Maine though Charleston might be a better draw. PVD and PWM have been getting a lot of love recently!

After seeing what happened in Miami first hand this spring when airlines added all the capacity... if I lived in Maine, id plan to escape somewhere else this summer too! I hope the likely one-time massive influx doesn't grind things to a halt there this summer and ruin what makes it special and attractive.

All the out of staters, or people “from away” as we say in Maine, all coming here only three months per year and never any other time has ruined our quick summers for us natives for decades! LOL tourist season sucks in Maine when you live here. Part of what makes it special and attractive is the slow paced life and not a lot of people. That changes in summer when it seems like half of Boston and NYC is here. Often with attitudes, always hurried and piss poor aggressive driving. We’re polite drivers here. Albeit a bit slow and overly courteous.

ChrisNH38 · Sun May 02, 2021 2:15 am

pwm2txlhopper wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:
Portlander wrote:
Other than a utopia for golfers, not sure what would lure Mainers to the Myrtle Beach area in the summer. Maybe it's about getting South Carolinians up to Maine though Charleston might be a better draw. PVD and PWM have been getting a lot of love recently!

After seeing what happened in Miami first hand this spring when airlines added all the capacity... if I lived in Maine, id plan to escape somewhere else this summer too! I hope the likely one-time massive influx doesn't grind things to a halt there this summer and ruin what makes it special and attractive.

I went to Myrtle Beach out of PSM a couple years ago because I’d never been and it was a cheap quick getaway. Going somewhere where you can swim in the ocean during summer without getting near hypothermia is always a drawing point. And it stays warm at night, unlike Maine, which can still get cool even in summer. Especially nights.

RL757PVD wrote:
Portlander wrote:
Other than a utopia for golfers, not sure what would lure Mainers to the Myrtle Beach area in the summer. Maybe it's about getting South Carolinians up to Maine though Charleston might be a better draw. PVD and PWM have been getting a lot of love recently!

After seeing what happened in Miami first hand this spring when airlines added all the capacity... if I lived in Maine, id plan to escape somewhere else this summer too! I hope the likely one-time massive influx doesn't grind things to a halt there this summer and ruin what makes it special and attractive.

All the out of staters, or people “from away” as we say in Maine, all coming here only three months per year and never any other time has ruined our quick summers for us natives for decades! LOL tourist season sucks in Maine when you live here. Part of what makes it special and attractive is the slow paced life and not a lot of people. That changes in summer when it seems like half of Boston and NYC is here. Often with attitudes, always hurried and piss poor aggressive driving. We’re polite drivers here. Albeit a bit slow and overly courteous.

Once we sell our NH house and complete construction of the new one near Charleston, we still have a house shared by my sisters and me in K’Port. And I agree with you. My favorite months there are September and October. It would be great to have a PWM-CHS non-stop down the road.

tomaheath · Sun May 02, 2021 10:51 am

pwm2txlhopper wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:
Portlander wrote:
Other than a utopia for golfers, not sure what would lure Mainers to the Myrtle Beach area in the summer. Maybe it's about getting South Carolinians up to Maine though Charleston might be a better draw. PVD and PWM have been getting a lot of love recently!

After seeing what happened in Miami first hand this spring when airlines added all the capacity... if I lived in Maine, id plan to escape somewhere else this summer too! I hope the likely one-time massive influx doesn't grind things to a halt there this summer and ruin what makes it special and attractive.

I went to Myrtle Beach out of PSM a couple years ago because I’d never been and it was a cheap quick getaway. Going somewhere where you can swim in the ocean during summer without getting near hypothermia is always a drawing point. And it stays warm at night, unlike Maine, which can still get cool even in summer. Especially nights.

RL757PVD wrote:
Portlander wrote:
Other than a utopia for golfers, not sure what would lure Mainers to the Myrtle Beach area in the summer. Maybe it's about getting South Carolinians up to Maine though Charleston might be a better draw. PVD and PWM have been getting a lot of love recently!

After seeing what happened in Miami first hand this spring when airlines added all the capacity... if I lived in Maine, id plan to escape somewhere else this summer too! I hope the likely one-time massive influx doesn't grind things to a halt there this summer and ruin what makes it special and attractive.

All the out of staters, or people “from away” as we say in Maine, all coming here only three months per year and never any other time has ruined our quick summers for us natives for decades! LOL tourist season sucks in Maine when you live here. Part of what makes it special and attractive is the slow paced life and not a lot of people. That changes in summer when it seems like half of Boston and NYC is here. Often with attitudes, always hurried and piss poor aggressive driving. We’re polite drivers here. Albeit a bit slow and overly courteous.

I agree with your comments about people “from away” while I’m all for a strong tourist economy last summer was absolutely awful in the white mountains all the people literally trashed anyplace where you could pull over and swim in a river. I’ll be curious to see how this year will be. I wish all the routes luck but not at the expense of our national resources.

airlineworker · Sun May 02, 2021 6:55 pm

Cboyle wrote:
SCHATC422 wrote:
I was informed yesterday by an undisclosed source that BDL is getting ready for another new airline announcement. When I asked who, I was informed they currently have a NDA and when it will be announced, I was told “should be very soon to be honest”. My guess is Breeze….

Thoughts?

Yeah breeze. Looks like they are hiring at BDL and PVD...

Why BDL and not HVN? Apart from AA, HVN means no other LCC's to fight against.

CairnterriAIR · Mon May 03, 2021 2:35 am

airlineworker wrote:
Cboyle wrote:
SCHATC422 wrote:
I was informed yesterday by an undisclosed source that BDL is getting ready for another new airline announcement. When I asked who, I was informed they currently have a NDA and when it will be announced, I was told “should be very soon to be honest”. My guess is Breeze….

Thoughts?

Yeah breeze. Looks like they are hiring at BDL and PVD...

Why BDL and not HVN? Apart from AA, HVN means no other LCC's to fight against.

I’m thinking they will end up serving both cities. No reason why they can’t. AA and predecessors have done so for years. As for why BDL....probably the E190 is not 100% suited for HVN’s runway....and they are waiting for the A220. That and I’m thinking west coast for BDL and southern leisure for HVN.

CairnterriAIR · Mon May 03, 2021 12:37 pm

CairnterriAIR wrote:
airlineworker wrote:
Cboyle wrote:
Yeah breeze. Looks like they are hiring at BDL and PVD...

Why BDL and not HVN? Apart from AA, HVN means no other LCC's to fight against.

I’m thinking they will end up serving both cities. No reason why they can’t. AA and predecessors have done so for years. As for why BDL....probably the E190 is not 100% suited for HVN’s runway....and they are waiting for the A220. That and I’m thinking west coast for BDL and southern leisure for HVN. But what Needs to be done in New Haven first and fourth most is for them to at least start making progress on infrastructure improvements. Runway is doable but they need to improve the terminal and access in HVN.

CairnterriAIR · Mon May 03, 2021 12:42 pm

CairnterriAIR wrote:
CairnterriAIR wrote:
airlineworker wrote:

Why BDL and not HVN? Apart from AA, HVN means no other LCC's to fight against.

I’m thinking they will end up serving both cities. No reason why they can’t. AA and predecessors have done so for years. As for why BDL..range on the E190 won’t take a hit off the long runway so more as it may in New Haven....Once they get some A220’s then they will have the ability to serve HVN without a payload restriction...runway lengthening is still a bit far off. That and I’m thinking west coast for BDL and southern leisure for HVN. But what Needs to be done in New Haven first and fourth most is for them to at least start making progress on infrastructure improvements. Runway is doable but they need to improve the terminal and access in HVN.

CairnterriAIR · Mon May 03, 2021 12:44 pm

Duplicated post

BTVB6Flyer · Mon May 03, 2021 1:15 pm

BTV isn't known to be open about numbers and figures and pretty quiet on social, but does anyone know how the first week of BTV-BOS on Boutique went/is going?

mjgbtv · Mon May 03, 2021 1:38 pm

BTVB6Flyer wrote:
BTV isn't known to be open about numbers and figures and pretty quiet on social, but does anyone know how the first week of BTV-BOS on Boutique went/is going?

This news piece has some positive-sounding quotes with numbers: https://www.mynbc5.com/article/from-bur ... sUioaV7IA#

I'm impressed with the speed of the PC-12. The flight from BTV-BOS yesterday took 5 minutes less than the Cape Air T-2012 from RUT-BOS even though that was only 2/3 of the distance.

airbazar · Mon May 03, 2021 1:39 pm

tomaheath wrote:
I agree with your comments about people “from away” while I’m all for a strong tourist economy last summer was absolutely awful in the white mountains all the people literally trashed anyplace where you could pull over and swim in a river. I’ll be curious to see how this year will be. I wish all the routes luck but not at the expense of our national resources.

As an avid outdoor recreation person who continued to use the outdoors throughout the worst days of the Pandemic there were multiple factors that contributed to that "trashing" in NH. I know that nothing should be an excuse for littering but there was a significant number of first timers last year. And while that is generally good for business, the "closing" of the WMNF by the feds including some parking lots and ALL restroom facilities and trash bins, certainly didn't help matters.
Outdoor recreation was one of the activities that was "allowed" during the stay at home order so guess what? People went out for a hike. Then they found out that if they needed to use the bathroom or throw away trash, they couldn't. In my experience most people you run into on a hike are well behaved but like everywhere else in society there will always be a small number that aren't. I hope that with opened facilities and knowledge acquired from last year, that things will be significantly better this year.

pwm2txlhopper wrote:
All the out of staters, or people “from away” as we say in Maine, all coming here only three months per year and never any other time has ruined our quick summers for us natives for decades! LOL tourist season sucks in Maine when you live here. Part of what makes it special and attractive is the slow paced life and not a lot of people. That changes in summer when it seems like half of Boston and NYC is here. Often with attitudes, always hurried and piss poor aggressive driving. We’re polite drivers here. Albeit a bit slow and overly courteous.

You live in a state that calls itself "Vacationland" but complain about people vacationing there. That's like buying a house next to an airport and complaining about airplane noise

BTVB6Flyer · Mon May 03, 2021 1:49 pm

mjgbtv wrote:
BTVB6Flyer wrote:
BTV isn't known to be open about numbers and figures and pretty quiet on social, but does anyone know how the first week of BTV-BOS on Boutique went/is going?

This news piece has some positive-sounding quotes with numbers: https://www.mynbc5.com/article/from-bur ... sUioaV7IA#

I'm impressed with the speed of the PC-12. The flight from BTV-BOS yesterday took 5 minutes less than the Cape Air T-2012 from RUT-BOS even though that was only 2/3 of the distance.

Good little article. I hope the service continues to do well.

Not super familiar with Boutique, I wonder where else the could fly that would make sense from BTV?

slcdeltarumd11 · Mon May 03, 2021 2:30 pm

Boutique isn't going to add any other cities, this is it. This is the route the airport wanted. It provides the ability to do connections in boston. Absolute best case scenario they go 2x daily on the route.

The pc-12 is an excellent cabin experience for passengers. I will take this flight at some point this summer

pwm2txlhopper · Mon May 03, 2021 11:58 pm

You live in a state that calls itself "Vacationland" but complain about people vacationing there. That's like buying a house next to an airport and complaining about airplane noise

I don’t call it Vacationland. I call it dark, cold and miserable most of the year and more likely to be overcast or raining then sunny, economically depressed with little job opportunity and the oldest average population. And am amused when all these people say how much they love it, but only want to be here three months per year during our 2.5 months summer. And like a lot of people here, wish the tourists would just stay home instead of invading every summer with their hurried Boston and NYC attitude, My livelihood doesn’t depend on tourist money.

When I think of vacation locations, I think of warm sun, nice beaches with non freezing water, and things to do like nightlife. Everything’s closed in Maine by 10 pm. If it’s vscstionland, all these people should be coming in January, just like they do in July. No takers, though. Literally, the roads clear just like that the day after Labor Day and nobody comes back until June other than old people on leaf peeping tours for a few weeks in October.

Right now, it’s May and spring in most of the country, but is 46F at my house. Not a single leaf has bloomed on the trees outside yet and the ocean is probably about 50 degrees? Lovely. Especially when you still have to wear a sweater at night during summer months.

If it was truly vacationland, all these new flights wouldn’t be seasonal service only.

Blueknows · Tue May 04, 2021 12:48 am

Boutique air flights are a joke. BTV wastes time trying to drum up 8 seat service to Boston. BTV needs to act like a real airport. Spend money fixing the terminal, and adding concessions for customers. The parking is over priced, and facilities are lack luster. I’ve seen more attractive trailer parks.

YQBexYHZBGM · Tue May 04, 2021 1:33 am

Blueknows wrote:
Boutique air flights are a joke. BTV wastes time trying to drum up 8 seat service to Boston. BTV needs to act like a real airport. Spend money fixing the terminal, and adding concessions for customers. The parking is over priced, and facilities are lack luster. I’ve seen more attractive trailer parks.

deltaslcrumd11 wrote:
Boutique isn't going to add any other cities, this is it. This is the route the airport wanted. It provides the ability to do connections in boston. Absolute best case scenario they go 2x daily on the route. The pc-12 is an excellent cabin experience for passengers. I will take this flight at some point this summer

I haven't followed developments at BTV in some time, and I'm really surprised. I figured BTV-BOS was still being operated with RJs, given that the route had mainline jet service from DL (and previously Northeast) for many years. While those times are long gone, I'm still surprised that an operator wasn't found to provide service with something more substantial than a Pilatus; PenAir operated SF34s PBG-BOS in recent years, and PBG isn't even within Boston's New England-wide sphere of influence, despite it being just across the lake from BTV.

mjgbtv · Tue May 04, 2021 1:36 am

Welcome back.

ssteve · Tue May 04, 2021 2:31 am

Blueknows wrote:
Boutique air flights are a joke. BTV wastes time trying to drum up 8 seat service to Boston. BTV needs to act like a real airport. Spend money fixing the terminal, and adding concessions for customers. The parking is over priced, and facilities are lack luster. I’ve seen more attractive trailer parks.

Given the criticism, I'm sure you've pored over the plans to have a shared security area and figure there are too few amenities? Also... expensive parking? It's like $8/day in a garage.

That said, I pretty much agree with the "8 seat service to BOS is a joke" sentiment.

Prior to this, I'd noticed that if you stuck crazy routes like BTV-BHB into kayak, Boutique Air came up... so, who knows, maybe if they drop the scheduled service, they've gotten the advertising.

slcdeltarumd11 · Tue May 04, 2021 3:28 am

BTV airport parking is great with walk to plane access. Theres always spots and it's covered. It's one of the real benefits of using the airport imho. Super easy and fast. Right now it's a 15 gate airport with three restaurants, three stores seems pretty great facilities to me? The walkway between the gates was a huge move in the right direction. BTV is def moving in the right direction

B595 · Tue May 04, 2021 8:25 am

YQBexYHZBGM wrote:
I haven't followed developments at BTV in some time, and I'm really surprised. I figured BTV-BOS was still being operated with RJs, given that the route had mainline jet service from DL (and previously Northeast) for many years. While those times are long gone, I'm still surprised that an operator wasn't found to provide service with something more substantial than a Pilatus; PenAir operated SF34s PBG-BOS in recent years, and PBG isn't even within Boston's New England-wide sphere of influence, despite it being just across the lake from BTV.

Like the Empire icon. I remember seeing their F28s in person at BTV. And later in Piedmont colors.

Re PenAir, that was an EAS route, if I’m not mistaken. So not really a fair comparison.

Aside from that Delta and Northeast service that you mention, BTV-BOS over the last 3-4 decades has mostly been on small props (Beech 99s and 1900s, Dornier 228s, SF34s, F27s), with only the occasional short-lived RJ (BizEx Avro, Dornier 328Jet). And we all know what has happened to small-prop service across the entire U.S. , and to most of the small-prop manufacturers. It may be that the PC-12 (and Cape Air’s Partenavia) are the only aircraft properly sized for the market and with the right economics at the moment.

Not to say I’m happy about that. Like most people here, I miss the great variety of prop-liners

Blueknows · Tue May 04, 2021 12:14 pm

So the daily rate to park at BTV is 12.00. They have one restaurant it’s the Skinney pancake. The airport had the chance to get southwest years ago, and that fell through. They should be spending more time energy on routes. The fact BTV doesn’t have direct seasonal /year round RSW/FLL is just crazy. Shows airport doesn’t have a clue what they are doing

slcdeltarumd11 · Tue May 04, 2021 7:35 pm

BTV has three restaurants and bars (normal times). They are all the skinny pancake but they still have three, one in each wing and one before security. Its the smallest airport I've ever seen which is open 24 hours, has a restaurant and store pre security. I think btv punches well above its weight!

pwm2txlhopper · Wed May 05, 2021 1:29 am

If anybody wants to see some interesting airlines ops at PWM off the secondary runway, RWY11/29 is closed to traffic until May 6th at 5am. Due to paving and runway repairs. All traffic today and tomorrow will be using 18/36.

I’m 12 miles northwest and was noticing a lot of Airbuses and Boeing’s that I don’t usually see at low altitude, turning 12 final to RWY 18 over my backyard all day, so I checked the NOTAMS. Not often that you’ll see this much traffic using 18/36.

Right now the evening bank is arriving.

Also, the 737-MAX with Southwest came in this morning and is due tonight, again. JetBlue had their A220 at PWM Monday, again from BOS. It did two, hour and fifteen minute flights, doing full stop landings and taxi back and departures. I had time to watch a couple circuits around the pattern. It then went back to BOS and flew a revenue flight to TPA.

Portlander · Wed May 05, 2021 1:41 am

I live within a half mile of the airport and it has been interesting watching the take offs and landings from a total different perspective. The large X at the end of runway 9 looks out of place and I guess that mainline aircraft are having no issues with 18/36's 6100 foot length. I think the displacement is even less (5600') for landings?

pwm2txlhopper · Wed May 05, 2021 1:50 am

Portlander wrote:
I live within a half mile of the airport and it has been interesting watching the take offs and landings from a total different perspective. The large X at the end of runway 9 looks out of place and I guess that the mainline aircraft are having no issues with 11/29's 6100 foot length. I think the displacement is even less (5600') for landings?

The last time I can remember the secondary becoming the primary, handling all traffic, was back when they reconstructed and improved the primary runway 11/29 in summer 2004. Although, over the last couple years since they extended 18/36, I have noticed it used significantly more for airline traffic. Used to be quite rare unless winds were exceptionally strong and due North/South. I’ve still never used it in 40 years of taking airline flights out of there. Only in GA aircraft.

Portlander · Wed May 05, 2021 2:02 am

Have never been on a flight that used 18/36 either and I have noticed a little more frequency in the last couple of years since the extension. I was out for a walk with my girlfriend around 6:30 this evening and a Frontier A320 took off to the south and it startled the both of us!

SCHATC422 · Thu May 06, 2021 11:52 am

HVN to announce major expansion, sign deal with AvPorts to take over operations; Avelo to park 3 737’s HVN and make first major east coast base.

https://www.wtnh.com/news/connecticut/n ... mY88WChUtk

PVD523 · Thu May 06, 2021 3:19 pm

Congratulations to HVN and Avelo. A much needed win for HVN. I'll be following the developments of this very closely.

Portlander · Thu May 06, 2021 8:02 pm

Great news for the New Haven/Bridgeport area and I hope that Avelo follows through with their commitment.

lat41 · Fri May 07, 2021 1:07 am

Incedently, "straight line" distance to Orlando is 1001 miles. Remember that HVN has 4 seasons of weather with the winds, foul weather and runway contamination that come with that. Also, right now there is ILS in one direction only. Comparisons, rather than similarities to Key West or Orange County CA are interesting to note. Good for New Haven. There is certainly a large population base nearby to support Tweed and future improvements to it

CairnterriAIR · Fri May 07, 2021 2:24 am

SCHATC422 wrote:
HVN to announce major expansion, sign deal with AvPorts to take over operations; Avelo to park 3 737’s HVN and make first major east coast base.

https://www.wtnh.com/news/connecticut/n ... mY88WChUtk

More service out of Southern New England is always welcome. Glad to see the airport will finally be getting a new terminal....just as important as the runway expansion....which the lack of both for years has been the stumbling block. No doubt the airline...if managed properly...will pretty much print money out of New Haven. BDL is its own market...HVN can keep passengers in state who would have otherwise flown out of New York. The CT shore is a big market.

slcdeltarumd11 · Fri May 07, 2021 2:28 am

Yeah HVN is really an option for people driving to LGA/HPN. Easier parking and more predictable traffic. I think they have a real shot at success.

Jetport · Fri May 07, 2021 7:54 am

Portlander wrote:
Have never been on a flight that used 18/36 either and I have noticed a little more frequency in the last couple of years since the extension. I was out for a walk with my girlfriend around 6:30 this evening and a Frontier A320 took off to the south and it startled the both of us!

I don't remember ever taking off on 18/36, but I do remember landing on it at least 3 times, once on a B1900D and the other 2 times on 737's. I think every time there were very strong winds out of the north.

mjgbtv · Sat May 08, 2021 4:02 pm

For those who are interested in these sorts of things, one of the Patriots' 767s is currently at BTV. It arrived last night (5/7) as Eastern 7506 and is currently on the FBO ramp.

EricBTV · Sun May 09, 2021 12:34 am

I tend to agree with this. The facilities at BTV are pretty good for that small of an airport, and the food is a popular local restaurant which is a big deal here. The new TSA checkpoint will be a major improvement, and today I saw that work is happening on the ramp south of the terminal so perhaps they are already getting started on that project. Aside from the previously mentioned wasted space potentially from both terminal expansions, I don't often complain about the airport itself.

What I do complain about, however, are routes. BTV has been on the short end of the all the recent major airline mergers losing flights to CVG, PIT, and CLE, and it doesn't feel like the legacies have made up for that with flights to their other hubs. We have lost a handful of other routes and carriers like MCO on B6 & G4, BWI on FL (Unrelated to the WN merger), and YTZ on PD. Then there's the pandemic related cutbacks. While I appreciate the efforts with F9, and legacy flights to DEN and DFW, it's hard to get super excited for a once or twice weekly flight. I fully understand this would not make good business sense, but purely from a passenger perspective, I'd be asking Southwest to name their terms and make it happen. I understand the desire for Florida flights, but I would even be happy with regular service into WN's network.

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
BTV has three restaurants and bars (normal times). They are all the skinny pancake but they still have three, one in each wing and one before security. Its the smallest airport I've ever seen which is open 24 hours, has a restaurant and store pre security. I think btv punches well above its weight!

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
BTV airport parking is great with walk to plane access. Theres always spots and it's covered. It's one of the real benefits of using the airport imho. Super easy and fast. Right now it's a 15 gate airport with three restaurants, three stores seems pretty great facilities to me? The walkway between the gates was a huge move in the right direction. BTV is def moving in the right direction

Thanks for the heads up! I don't have the hardware for an A.net quality photo, but I was able to get some good views from the top of the parking garage.

mjgbtv wrote:
For those who are interested in these sorts of things, one of the Patriots' 767s is currently at BTV. It arrived last night (5/7) as Eastern 7506 and is currently on the FBO ramp.

slcdeltarumd11 · Sun May 09, 2021 7:18 am

BTV lost CLE, PIT and CVG but the o&d to those cities was basically zero. Every airline lost those cities really. The airlines have more then made up for those loses. They just don't fly empty 737s around anymore.

Pre covid we had the best offering of flights and prices BTV has ever seen. Security was struggling to keep up hence why the connector was so needed for balance. Vermont travel restrictions and being near to nyc early epicenter caused airlines to cancel flights hard at BTV. They will be back just wait.

Look at summer den is back, clt is 2x cr9 and new dfw those add way more value then pit, cle or cvg ever did. Places people actually want to go and unique connections. Den,clt and dfw connection a ton of smaller cities. BTV def will have more one stop connection possibilities (post covid) then at anytime in its history which is huge.

B595 · Sun May 09, 2021 9:30 am

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Den,clt and dfw connection a ton of smaller cities. BTV def will have more one stop connection possibilities (post covid) then at anytime in its history which is huge.

Interesting point.

DFW probably brings some new connection possibilities to Mexico/Latin America that weren’t available previously through ATL on DL, since my impression is AA is bigger than DL in that part of the world.

DFW should also bring a good number of small cities in Texas and the southern plains into the 1-stop connection fold that weren’t available previously. (I wouldn’t put these as anywhere near the importance of the Mexico/Latin America connections, but hey, they’re still technically new connections.).

DEN, meanwhile, should open many of the small cities in the intermountain west to 1-stop connections.

EricBTV · Tue May 11, 2021 12:39 am

I respect what you're saying about BTV.

I agree that 2019 was a very strong year and that airlines are going to make their decisions purely on demand. I wouldn't expect them to fly half-empty mainline planes just because. I have noticed that the summer schedule brings a big boost and after you mentioned it, I looked again and saw that DEN on UA is now 2x weekly so that's growth there. Very seriously, I hope that I'm wrong and that my cynicism is unfounded. I know it won't happen overnight, but I hope the 1-2x weekly and 8-seat services grow into much more. I just want to see BTV grow and succeed, and to have flights that perpetuate that growth.

I also fully realize that the airline consolidation hurt just about everyone. BTV-CLE is personal to me as I flew it regularly to visit family. I know I should be over that as it last flew in 2014, but it's still a sore spot (even though I think just about everyone saw the CLE dehubbing coming).

mjgbtv · Tue May 11, 2021 1:25 am

EricBTV wrote:
I respect what you're saying about BTV.

I agree that 2019 was a very strong year and that airlines are going to make their decisions purely on demand. I wouldn't expect them to fly half-empty mainline planes just because. I have noticed that the summer schedule brings a big boost and after you mentioned it, I looked again and saw that DEN on UA is now 2x weekly so that's growth there. Very seriously, I hope that I'm wrong and that my cynicism is unfounded. I know it won't happen overnight, but I hope the 1-2x weekly and 8-seat services grow into much more. I just want to see BTV grow and succeed, and to have flights that perpetuate that growth.

I also fully realize that the airline consolidation hurt just about everyone. BTV-CLE is personal to me as I flew it regularly to visit family. I know I should be over that as it last flew in 2014, but it's still a sore spot (even though I think just about everyone saw the CLE dehubbing coming).

Realistically I think the only options for new routes from BTV are either less than daily or very small aircraft like BOS. I just don't see any other destinations with the numbers to support daily RJ or larger flights. And if less than daily is what it takes I'm all for that. Places like DEN and MCO are heavy on leisure and people can often plan their trips around the available flights, and in any case DEN is 4 days a week most of the time with UA and F9 combined, and F9 has gone to as many as 4 days a week at peak times.

I do find the one flight per week to DFW a bit lame. Maybe DFW adds something as a hub, but once per week seems too inflexible for planning a trip. Maybe it will grow, but for now I don't see the point unless it is mainly a way for AA to use a plane that would otherwise sit idle on a weekend.

B595 · Tue May 11, 2021 2:34 am

mjgbtv wrote:
Realistically I think the only options for new routes from BTV are either less than daily or very small aircraft like BOS. I just don't see any other destinations with the numbers to support daily RJ or larger flights. And if less than daily is what it takes I'm all for that. Places like DEN and MCO are heavy on leisure and people can often plan their trips around the available flights, and in any case DEN is 4 days a week most of the time with UA and F9 combined, and F9 has gone to as many as 4 days a week at peak times.

I think you’re spot on. I’d like to see Southwest come to BTV, but if they ever do, it won’t be daily. Maybe sometime in the future when the border is easier to cross, but not under today’s realities.

mjgbtv wrote:
I do find the one flight per week to DFW a bit lame. Maybe DFW adds something as a hub, but once per week seems too inflexible for planning a trip. Maybe it will grow, but for now I don't see the point unless it is mainly a way for AA to use a plane that would otherwise sit idle on a weekend.

Planning around 1x/week is not ideal, but that wouldn’t stop me. I think what would dissuade me is the risk of missing that 1x/week connection, and all of the hassle that could bring.

Fex180 · Thu May 13, 2021 2:53 pm

Has DL permanently pulled out of MHT? They don't seem to have any bookable flights for the next 3-4 months at least.

It also seems like UA's only presence at MHT is 2x daily to IAD throughout the summer

RL757PVD · Thu May 13, 2021 3:03 pm

Fex180 wrote:
Has DL permanently pulled out of MHT? They don't seem to have any bookable flights for the next 3-4 months at least.

It also seems like UA's only presence at MHT is 2x daily to IAD throughout the summer

I believe it was "permanent" when they did it, I do think they will ultimately be back within the next couple years, even if its just a few RJs to DTW.

LotsaRunway · Thu May 13, 2021 5:17 pm

I think they will both ride the tides and as long as nobody else is investing in MHT, they won't either. Nothing driving them to be competitive so they stay focused on BOS. For New England, UA's strategic approach is focused on BOS, BDL, BTV and PWM. Others get just enough to offer something to their local FF's to keep them loyal. DL is pretty much the same, but I add PVD to their local strategy because I think their FF base (and corporate base) there is pretty strong. Since MHT doesn't have any ULCCs there is nothing stirring the status quo, also keeping reductions to operating costs on a slow timeline. Add some ULCC service (more than a few token flights per week) and the math could change pretty quickly. That could drive UA and DL into upping their games at MHT. Just my 2 cents.

airbazar · Thu May 13, 2021 7:43 pm

LotsaRunway wrote:
I think they will both ride the tides and as long as nobody else is investing in MHT, they won't either. Nothing driving them to be competitive so they stay focused on BOS. For New England, UA's strategic approach is focused on BOS, BDL, BTV and PWM. Others get just enough to offer something to their local FF's to keep them loyal. DL is pretty much the same, but I add PVD to their local strategy because I think their FF base (and corporate base) there is pretty strong. Since MHT doesn't have any ULCCs there is nothing stirring the status quo, also keeping reductions to operating costs on a slow timeline. Add some ULCC service (more than a few token flights per week) and the math could change pretty quickly. That could drive UA and DL into upping their games at MHT. Just my 2 cents.

Maybe so some time in the future but not near term. In the current environment the legacies seem to be adding routes from major cities to leisure destinations. Manchester is neither a major city not a leisure destination.

slcdeltarumd11 · Thu May 13, 2021 8:46 pm

I don't think MHT is positioned well for growth right now. With WN so dominant I don't see it as a good opportunity for a new LCC. The legacies won't be interested as stated it's not a leisure destination which is the domestic demand.

WN is nice to have for florida and volume but it really reduces competition at such a small airport and dominates. MHT is a cautionary tale of what happens when a small airport is dominated by one powerful airline. MHT has unreasonable airfares to all the cities not served N/S by southwest often because it lacks competition and they know it in their pricing.

airbazar · Thu May 13, 2021 9:30 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
I don't think MHT is positioned well for growth right now. With WN so dominant I don't see it as a good opportunity for a new LCC. The legacies won't be interested as stated it's not a leisure destination which is the domestic demand.

WN is nice to have for florida and volume but it really reduces competition at such a small airport and dominates. MHT is a cautionary tale of what happens when a small airport is dominated by one powerful airline. MHT has unreasonable airfares to all the cities not served N/S by southwest often because it lacks competition and they know it in their pricing.

Even the WN destinations are more expensive than WN from BOS. Last Thanksgiving we went to Chicago and I would have loved to fly MHT-MDW but it was 3x more expensive than BOS-MDW. So we drove to BOS. $50 each way was hard to say no to.

jplatts · Thu May 13, 2021 10:44 pm

airbazar wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
WN is nice to have for florida and volume but it really reduces competition at such a small airport and dominates. MHT is a cautionary tale of what happens when a small airport is dominated by one powerful airline. MHT has unreasonable airfares to all the cities not served N/S by southwest often because it lacks competition and they know it in their pricing.

Even the WN destinations are more expensive than WN from BOS. Last Thanksgiving we went to Chicago and I would have loved to fly MHT-MDW but it was 3x more expensive than BOS-MDW. So we drove to BOS. $50 each way was hard to say no to.

One big difference between MHT and BOS is that WN BOS-MDW nonstop service was in competition with NK BOS-ORD nonstop service (at least prior to the COVID-19 pandemic), whereas no ULCC's currently serve MHT. MHT is also far enough from BOS to justify WN charging a price premium.

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