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N292UX
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:46 pm

flyiguy wrote:
WN is resuming MDW - IAD service to compliment to ATL & DEN flights.

FLY

IAD's a bit of an oddball station for WN. They used to also fly to FLL/MCO from IAD. The station's completely dwarfed by both BWI & DCA, especially BWI. I think there's certainly routes WN can add from IAD that wouldn't have much of an effect on BWI/DCA. IAD-LAS/PHX doesn't seem like a terrible idea considering UA is the only one on that route (F9 dropped IAD-LAS recently), and they can't add it from DCA due to perimeter restrictions. IAD-HOU doesn't seem like a terrible move either considering how much the HOU station has grown recently. Outside of that I really don't see a ton of potential for WN growth out of IAD. Most new routes will be from BWI/DCA.
 
N292UX
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:53 pm

Speaking of ULCCs, IAD has next to no ULCC service. Only current service is F9 to AUS/MCO. One would imagine there's room for some more ULCC competition considering how many routes UA has a monopoly on. Wouldn't blow me away to see NK possibly try IAD at some point (They've served DCA before, but I do not believe they've ever served IAD). One would think NK could make IAD-FLL/MCO/LAS/DFW/TPA and maybe RSW/ORD too. May be a bit far fetched but there certainly seems to be room for more ULCC competition at IAD.
 
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deltacto
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:57 pm

IADCA wrote:
washingtonflyer wrote:
The only thing that I wonder about with respect to DCA is the fact that the Terminal A area used to have two piers - the banjo and a traditional pier to the east of the banjo which had (what appears to be) room for at least 7 gates via jetbridges.

If you go onto Google maps you can see the outline of that removed pier.

So: #1 why was that pier removed and #2 could that space be rebuilt as a new pier to add gates to the Terminal A area?


I don't actually know the answer to the questions, but one possible input is that that pier made C/D at Dulles look like HKG. It was a real hole, and that was from my impressions as a child.


That pier was originally for American and Allegheny:
AA was on the upper level with gates 9, 10, 11, 12, and 14. All gates had jetways.
AL was on the lower level with gates 15, 16, and 17. Gate 15 had a jetway. Gates 16 and 17 had multiple parking positions and used ground level boarding


http://www.departedflights.com/DCA042582.html

http://www.departedflights.com/DCA89.html
 
USAirALB
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:10 pm

Original Dulles schedule was 7x MDW, 2x MCO, 1x LAS, and 2x TPA. They also did IAD-SAN at one point.

I don’t see them expanding Dulles anytime soon. I think B6 returning and restarting transcon service is more likely IMO.
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ahj2000
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:21 pm

N292UX wrote:
Speaking of ULCCs, IAD has next to no ULCC service. Only current service is F9 to AUS/MCO. One would imagine there's room for some more ULCC competition considering how many routes UA has a monopoly on. Wouldn't blow me away to see NK possibly try IAD at some point (They've served DCA before, but I do not believe they've ever served IAD). One would think NK could make IAD-FLL/MCO/LAS/DFW/TPA and maybe RSW/ORD too. May be a bit far fetched but there certainly seems to be room for more ULCC competition at IAD.

There used to be a focus city of sorts for F9 at IAD in 2014. I remember almost booking CLT-IAD.
Not to say it wouldn’t work, as F9 is a better carrier now for the job and NK has really gotten great at their market, but it did fail before.
An article from way back when:
https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/br ... ashington/
-Andrés Juánez
 
blockski
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:58 pm

Some other news - AA might begin operations at the new concourse at DCA as soon as April:

https://airlineweekly.com/covid-speeds- ... l-airport/

The combination of the pandemic and reduced traffic has both allowed for accelerated construction and a simplified operation plan with the transition (e.g. not trying to squeeze max passenger levels into the old checkpoint).

The security checkpoints are behind schedule and won't be open in "late 2021."
 
capitalflyer
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:04 pm

washingtonflyer wrote:
blockski wrote:
washingtonflyer wrote:
The only thing that I wonder about with respect to DCA is the fact that the Terminal A area used to have two piers - the banjo and a traditional pier to the east of the banjo which had (what appears to be) room for at least 7 gates via jetbridges.

If you go onto Google maps you can see the outline of that removed pier.

So: #1 why was that pier removed and #2 could that space be rebuilt as a new pier to add gates to the Terminal A area?


That pier was removed when the new Terminal B/C opened. The scope for B/C was to be big enough to replace it. That's also a reason there's less pressure to redevelop the A banjo today - there's just less stuff crammed into that old portion of the terminal.

Going forward, I'm sure that's exactly the location where a new Terminal A would go - they'd keep the Banjo operating during construction, etc. I don't think they'd go for a net expansion in gates absent a change in the law. DCA has a legal cap on the number of gates. MWAA isn't eager to expand DCA beyond that, nor does it really make sense given the slot controls that will always be in place given the airfield constraints. Where things get a little trickier is ensuring airline access and facilities if one obtains slots, and that's where DCA is packed to the gills.


I think you can expand the terminal size without expanding the number of slots. They're connected but not totally dependent upon each other. In IRROPS situations, I've seen a lot of aircraft have to hold down by the GA facility or over by Commuter World while waiting for a gate to free up. I'm sure a new pier could be added such that aircraft don't have to wait 30 or 45 minutes for a gate to open up. As it is, airlines might like a new terminal as they have to be towed away each night for RON parking.


You can build as much building as you want, but you can't build more gates.

Will the old numbering continue (35a, 35b, etc.) or will they just go ahead and give each gate its own number? Perhaps they could leave Gate 35 and create Concourse 45 with A-O gate letters. Will there be alterations to the C gate layout to use up the old bus space to park planes more straight in to the concourse?

And how's this for an A concourse. Make the historic building the main entrance and use the lobby for ticketing, departures, etc. Duplicate the B pier (15-22) and put it where the previous one was. Make the lower level of the historic lobby post security for access on foot to B. Bump out gates 10-14 to expand those hold areas and add amenities. Also, convert walkway from A to B to secure hallway since this will be post security in B. Then use the banjo as a large event hall. Imagine having a wedding in there!

But yes, none of this would happen cause its easier to keep things as they are.
 
USAirALB
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:07 pm

blockski wrote:
Some other news - AA might begin operations at the new concourse at DCA as soon as April:

https://airlineweekly.com/covid-speeds- ... l-airport/

The combination of the pandemic and reduced traffic has both allowed for accelerated construction and a simplified operation plan with the transition (e.g. not trying to squeeze max passenger levels into the old checkpoint).

The security checkpoints are behind schedule and won't be open in "late 2021."

Strange because I thought the security checkpoints were ahead of schedule as well (according to the last thing I read from MWAA) but they don't necessarily have the best track-record, so...
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washingtonflyer
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:55 pm

capitalflyer wrote:
washingtonflyer wrote:
blockski wrote:

That pier was removed when the new Terminal B/C opened. The scope for B/C was to be big enough to replace it. That's also a reason there's less pressure to redevelop the A banjo today - there's just less stuff crammed into that old portion of the terminal.

Going forward, I'm sure that's exactly the location where a new Terminal A would go - they'd keep the Banjo operating during construction, etc. I don't think they'd go for a net expansion in gates absent a change in the law. DCA has a legal cap on the number of gates. MWAA isn't eager to expand DCA beyond that, nor does it really make sense given the slot controls that will always be in place given the airfield constraints. Where things get a little trickier is ensuring airline access and facilities if one obtains slots, and that's where DCA is packed to the gills.


I think you can expand the terminal size without expanding the number of slots. They're connected but not totally dependent upon each other. In IRROPS situations, I've seen a lot of aircraft have to hold down by the GA facility or over by Commuter World while waiting for a gate to free up. I'm sure a new pier could be added such that aircraft don't have to wait 30 or 45 minutes for a gate to open up. As it is, airlines might like a new terminal as they have to be towed away each night for RON parking.


You can build as much building as you want, but you can't build more gates.

Will the old numbering continue (35a, 35b, etc.) or will they just go ahead and give each gate its own number? Perhaps they could leave Gate 35 and create Concourse 45 with A-O gate letters. Will there be alterations to the C gate layout to use up the old bus space to park planes more straight in to the concourse?

And how's this for an A concourse. Make the historic building the main entrance and use the lobby for ticketing, departures, etc. Duplicate the B pier (15-22) and put it where the previous one was. Make the lower level of the historic lobby post security for access on foot to B. Bump out gates 10-14 to expand those hold areas and add amenities. Also, convert walkway from A to B to secure hallway since this will be post security in B. Then use the banjo as a large event hall. Imagine having a wedding in there!

But yes, none of this would happen cause its easier to keep things as they are.


There are images of the new concourse in the video put out by MWAA clearly showing artists renderings of the holding areas and with the gate numberings in the 50 range. Up to gate 58 or 59..
 
blockski
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:34 pm

USAirALB wrote:
blockski wrote:
Some other news - AA might begin operations at the new concourse at DCA as soon as April:

https://airlineweekly.com/covid-speeds- ... l-airport/

The combination of the pandemic and reduced traffic has both allowed for accelerated construction and a simplified operation plan with the transition (e.g. not trying to squeeze max passenger levels into the old checkpoint).

The security checkpoints are behind schedule and won't be open in "late 2021."

Strange because I thought the security checkpoints were ahead of schedule as well (according to the last thing I read from MWAA) but they don't necessarily have the best track-record, so...


No the checkpoints are behind schedule. IIRC, that delay was baked in early in the project - as they were digging foundations, they discovered some unmarked utilities in and around the arrivals roadway so they had to stop and relocate a bunch of stuff, and that set them back.

I drove through the airport a few weeks ago and they still had a lot of scaffolding up for the roofing of the portion with the arched windows; they've still got some work to do to get the structures all buttoned up and watertight. The new concourse, however, looks good to go.
 
capitalflyer
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:07 pm

blockski wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
blockski wrote:
Some other news - AA might begin operations at the new concourse at DCA as soon as April:

https://airlineweekly.com/covid-speeds- ... l-airport/

The combination of the pandemic and reduced traffic has both allowed for accelerated construction and a simplified operation plan with the transition (e.g. not trying to squeeze max passenger levels into the old checkpoint).

The security checkpoints are behind schedule and won't be open in "late 2021."

Strange because I thought the security checkpoints were ahead of schedule as well (according to the last thing I read from MWAA) but they don't necessarily have the best track-record, so...


No the checkpoints are behind schedule. IIRC, that delay was baked in early in the project - as they were digging foundations, they discovered some unmarked utilities in and around the arrivals roadway so they had to stop and relocate a bunch of stuff, and that set them back.

I drove through the airport a few weeks ago and they still had a lot of scaffolding up for the roofing of the portion with the arched windows; they've still got some work to do to get the structures all buttoned up and watertight. The new concourse, however, looks good to go.


Adding link to WP article suggesting the same, AA regional operations will move to new concourse in April sometime.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/transpor ... concourse/
 
blockski
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:27 pm

Some pictures of the progress from the architecture firm that designed the new concourse:

https://twitter.com/PGALdesign/status/1 ... 8822370306
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 25, 2021 8:08 am

Not gonna happen, but I wish DCA would get an immigration facility and we could have nonstops to the Caribbean, LHR, and CDG. Heck, I would like more nonstops to LAX, SFO, and one to SJC.
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys. Citizenship/Residence::: Washington DC, US; Vaud, CH; Providenciales, TCI (hence my avi)
 
bigb
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 25, 2021 9:01 am

Pellegrine wrote:
Not gonna happen, but I wish DCA would get an immigration facility and we could have nonstops to the Caribbean, LHR, and CDG. Heck, I would like more nonstops to LAX, SFO, and one to SJC.

Yeah, won’t happen. Runways are too short for TATL flights.
 
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 25, 2021 9:19 am

bigb wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
Not gonna happen, but I wish DCA would get an immigration facility and we could have nonstops to the Caribbean, LHR, and CDG. Heck, I would like more nonstops to LAX, SFO, and one to SJC.

Yeah, won’t happen. Runways are too short for TATL flights.


For A321XLR?
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys. Citizenship/Residence::: Washington DC, US; Vaud, CH; Providenciales, TCI (hence my avi)
 
USAirALB
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 25, 2021 12:24 pm

There's no way Congress would allow beyond-permitter slots currently used to fly to/from their constituencies to be used for international flights. DCA does not have a designated FIS-area, and building one would require a huge change of the terminal's architecture.

Air Canada has been wanting to fly DCA-YVR for years, and when they attempted to apply for it when slots became available, their application was turned down fairly quickly IIRC under the guise of "why should those in Vancouver get priority over those in the Western US".

Maybe, just maybe, if LHR ever got pre-clearance, I could see AA doing DCA-LHR on a A321XLR with one of their interchangeable beyond-perimeter slots. I cannot find the figures for the runway length needed at MTOW but hypothetically I don't see why it couldn't make it.
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blockski
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:18 pm

bigb wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
Not gonna happen, but I wish DCA would get an immigration facility and we could have nonstops to the Caribbean, LHR, and CDG. Heck, I would like more nonstops to LAX, SFO, and one to SJC.

Yeah, won’t happen. Runways are too short for TATL flights.


I mean, it won't happen, but that's not the reason.

The DC region already built an immigration facility for DCA. It's at Dulles.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:01 pm

blockski wrote:
bigb wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
Not gonna happen, but I wish DCA would get an immigration facility and we could have nonstops to the Caribbean, LHR, and CDG. Heck, I would like more nonstops to LAX, SFO, and one to SJC.

Yeah, won’t happen. Runways are too short for TATL flights.


I mean, it won't happen, but that's not the reason.

The DC region already built an immigration facility for DCA. It's at Dulles.

:checkmark:

The fact that politically it will never happen and logistically it would be complicated, it would be limited to US carriers. There is an exactly zero percent chance of foreign flagged carriers being permitted to fly within the DC FRZ. You can't get to DCA without flying through the FRZ.
 
bigb
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:07 pm

blockski wrote:
bigb wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
Not gonna happen, but I wish DCA would get an immigration facility and we could have nonstops to the Caribbean, LHR, and CDG. Heck, I would like more nonstops to LAX, SFO, and one to SJC.

Yeah, won’t happen. Runways are too short for TATL flights.


I mean, it won't happen, but that's not the reason.

The DC region already built an immigration facility for DCA. It's at Dulles.


Yes, I am aware. But before the introduction of the A321XLR, DCA runways are too short for any trans-Atlantic flights regardless FIS or not other wise you are looking at load restrictions on widebody flights.

It’s not going to happen due to the perimeter rule anyways.
 
bigb
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:12 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
blockski wrote:
bigb wrote:
Yeah, won’t happen. Runways are too short for TATL flights.


I mean, it won't happen, but that's not the reason.

The DC region already built an immigration facility for DCA. It's at Dulles.

:checkmark:

The fact that politically it will never happen and logistically it would be complicated, it would be limited to US carriers. There is an exactly zero percent chance of foreign flagged carriers being permitted to fly within the DC FRZ. You can't get to DCA without flying through the FRZ.


Agreed, dead smack in the middle of the FRZ.
 
blockski
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:16 pm

bigb wrote:
blockski wrote:
bigb wrote:
Yeah, won’t happen. Runways are too short for TATL flights.


I mean, it won't happen, but that's not the reason.

The DC region already built an immigration facility for DCA. It's at Dulles.


Yes, I am aware. But before the introduction of the A321XLR, DCA runways are too short for any trans-Atlantic flights regardless FIS or not other wise you are looking at load restrictions on widebody flights.

It’s not going to happen due to the perimeter rule anyways.


Leaving TATL flights aside, there are plenty of shorter-haul international destinations that are beyond the current perimeter but within range of narrowbody aircraft. The policy decision is quite clear - they're not going to serve international flights at DCA, period. And the critical thing is that nobody wants to add international flights at DCA. MWAA doesn't want it, Congress doesn't want it, the airlines don't want it.
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:18 pm

Couple of things: DCA has had international flights (and has them now).....just to airports with Preclearance (BDA, NAS, YYZ, YUL, and the like). The was some discussion as to if AA could make a go of DCA-LHR / DCA-LCY similar to BA001 given that the LHR-DCA leg would involve a technical stop in SNN. Discussions did not go very far....
 
bigb
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:32 pm

blockski wrote:
bigb wrote:
blockski wrote:

I mean, it won't happen, but that's not the reason.

The DC region already built an immigration facility for DCA. It's at Dulles.


Yes, I am aware. But before the introduction of the A321XLR, DCA runways are too short for any trans-Atlantic flights regardless FIS or not other wise you are looking at load restrictions on widebody flights.

It’s not going to happen due to the perimeter rule anyways.


Leaving TATL flights aside, there are plenty of shorter-haul international destinations that are beyond the current perimeter but within range of narrowbody aircraft. The policy decision is quite clear - they're not going to serve international flights at DCA, period. And the critical thing is that nobody wants to add international flights at DCA. MWAA doesn't want it, Congress doesn't want it, the airlines don't want it.


There’s actually quite a few of international flights in and out of DCA, considering I’ve operated Toronto turns out of there (but Toronto is pre-cleared).

I am just highlighting that runway length being one of the many limitations of operating a long-haul flight out of DCA aside from politics.
 
USAirALB
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 25, 2021 7:29 pm

https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -0029-6145

This was a supplement added to AC’s DCA-YVR application. Politics essentially made the application void upon arrival.

Unrelated, but didn’t AC do year-round IAD-YVR at one point?
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USAirALB
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Fri Mar 05, 2021 10:07 pm

Just landed at DCA from LAX on AA.

While walking to the Metro from my gate (25) I noticed that the overhead signage in the National Hall had been updated with a new, more modern font. I also noticed that there was no mention of Terminal C anywhere in the terminal, just signs pointing to Terminal A, and I remember seeing Blue Terminal C signs at one point that were no longer there, so I am somewhat confident MWAA may be retiring Terminal C.

The signage on the concourse, the walkway to the Metro/parking, as well as on the curb (from what I saw) remained the same and was not updated.
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zippyjet
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Re: DC Airports Thread - 2021

Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:59 am

BWIAirport wrote:
Regarding BWI, is there any update on Southwest's maintenance hangar? I thought it was supposed to be nearing completion by now but I don't even think it's been started yet.
The Concourse A six-gate extension looks to be in the final stages. I think the next step after that is to temporarily close A1-A5 to work on the baggage sorting facility.


Not sure on the maintenance hanger. Regarding A Extended (A12-A16) it's nearly finished. I believe we will be operational in those new gates sometime in the Spring. Yes, the "Bubble" A1-A5 is scheduled to be closed for extreme terminal makeover which focusses on the new bag belts/systems. From what I've heard, the food court level will be extended into the bubble adding more food and retail outlets and accessible rest room facilities. This will be a long range on going endeavor.
I'm Zippyjet & I approve this message!
 
lawair
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Re: DC Airports Thread - 2021

Sat Mar 06, 2021 3:04 pm

zippyjet wrote:
BWIAirport wrote:
Regarding BWI, is there any update on Southwest's maintenance hangar? I thought it was supposed to be nearing completion by now but I don't even think it's been started yet.
The Concourse A six-gate extension looks to be in the final stages. I think the next step after that is to temporarily close A1-A5 to work on the baggage sorting facility.


Not sure on the maintenance hanger. Regarding A Extended (A12-A16) it's nearly finished. I believe we will be operational in those new gates sometime in the Spring. Yes, the "Bubble" A1-A5 is scheduled to be closed for extreme terminal makeover which focusses on the new bag belts/systems. From what I've heard, the food court level will be extended into the bubble adding more food and retail outlets and accessible rest room facilities. This will be a long range on going endeavor.


Some recent media articles indicated that both the "bubble" you're referring to and the maintenance hangar could break ground this summer.
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:27 pm

No Metro to Dulles until early 2022 now:

https://dcist.com/story/21/03/05/metro- ... ntil-2022/
 
phllax
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:07 pm

blockski wrote:
Some pictures of the progress from the architecture firm that designed the new concourse:

https://twitter.com/PGALdesign/status/1 ... 8822370306


Could they just not have re-built the Interim terminal since the footprint was still there with regards to underground fueling and utilities?
 
blockski
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:12 pm

phllax wrote:
blockski wrote:
Some pictures of the progress from the architecture firm that designed the new concourse:

https://twitter.com/PGALdesign/status/1 ... 8822370306


Could they just not have re-built the Interim terminal since the footprint was still there with regards to underground fueling and utilities?


They looked at something like that, but the alternative didn't meet their design need (14 RJ gates with full jetbridge access - and enough space to expand to 737/A320 size if needed)

https://www.mwaa.com/sites/default/file ... 0216v2.pdf
 
USAirALB
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:15 pm

washingtonflyer wrote:
No Metro to Dulles until early 2022 now:

https://dcist.com/story/21/03/05/metro- ... ntil-2022/

Honestly, is anyone surprised?

The stations have literally been complete for almost 3 years now, and IIRC, I read somewhere that there are components on Phase II that are actually about to be out of warranty and MWAA/WMATA is essentially going to have to fork over money to the contractor if they want to have the warranties removed. I am honestly so flabbergasted as I thought the reasoning for shutting down the entire Silver Line last summer as it would speed along the project, and Wiedefeld literally just said either in January or February that the extension was on track for a Fall 2021 opening.

Honestly at this point I don't see the extension opening before November 2022. I guarantee you WMATA is going to find something they aren't happy with on the extension upon accepting it and starting testing, and will drag their feet with MWAA and the contractors in rectifying the issue.

What a joke.
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phllax
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:37 pm

blockski wrote:
phllax wrote:
blockski wrote:
Some pictures of the progress from the architecture firm that designed the new concourse:

https://twitter.com/PGALdesign/status/1 ... 8822370306


Could they just not have re-built the Interim terminal since the footprint was still there with regards to underground fueling and utilities?


They looked at something like that, but the alternative didn't meet their design need (14 RJ gates with full jetbridge access - and enough space to expand to 737/A320 size if needed)

https://www.mwaa.com/sites/default/file ... 0216v2.pdf


That's a shame. The Interim footprint could have worked. I remember H6 and/or H7 could take the 757, as well as all 3 DL gates at the same time. I also remember H2 was mostly used for the F28 hourly service to Boston before it was integrated into Shuttle. Everything else could fit up to the 400.
 
blockski
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:18 pm

phllax wrote:
blockski wrote:
phllax wrote:

Could they just not have re-built the Interim terminal since the footprint was still there with regards to underground fueling and utilities?


They looked at something like that, but the alternative didn't meet their design need (14 RJ gates with full jetbridge access - and enough space to expand to 737/A320 size if needed)

https://www.mwaa.com/sites/default/file ... 0216v2.pdf


That's a shame. The Interim footprint could have worked. I remember H6 and/or H7 could take the 757, as well as all 3 DL gates at the same time. I also remember H2 was mostly used for the F28 hourly service to Boston before it was integrated into Shuttle. Everything else could fit up to the 400.


No, I don't think it could've worked. Just eyeballing the aerial photos, there were 8 concrete pads there. 35x serves 14 RJ positions, and they wanted all 14 to be contact gates. That's simply not enough room to make that happen.

And even if it were, it's not actually useful. Sometimes you spend more money on a renovation than you would to just tear down and rebuild. And you certainly wouldn't be able to incorporate all of the modern concourse elements you'd want and need. It's also not as if the old interim terminal had any particular architectural or historical value. It was a hangar.

Furthermore, the hangars were filling the 'terminal' role for check-in, baggage claim, etc while a temporary structure (long since demolished) housed the gates. And this project doesn't need any additional terminal space - what it needs is gate space. The part of the interim terminal that remained was the wrong half of the facility.
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:58 am

Some old photos of the interim terminal at DCA...

https://ggwash.org/view/62960/building- ... al-airport
 
USAirALB
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:40 pm

As part of their AUS expansion, AA is launching a twice daily IAD-AUS service this August. Equipment will be A319s.

There was a public statement from an AA exec (that looks like it was removed) that essentially said something like "we would rather fly this out of DCA, but can't because of lack of perimeter slots".

This announcement is interesting to me because I believe it is likely the first time AA has shown a willingness to fly routes out of IAD that would not be possible out of DCA. Obviously AA knows the market quite well, and they have a considerable number of frequent flyers in the area. Given their recent partnership with AS, I wonder if AA would be willing to launch say IAD-SFO/SEA/SAN. I have status on AA, and would prefer to keep my loyalties to them, just for simplicity sake. I am often split between choosing AA out of DCA (and making a connection) or venturing out to IAD and fly a nonstop on UA, where I don't have any status. AA launching beyond-perimeter flights out of Dulles would be a life-saver for me, and I am sure I am not the only one.

Granted, I feel like most of this is a pipe dream, as AA hasn't announced a resumption of IAD-LAX, and given that every other route seems to have a resumption date, I am worried it's not coming back.
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blockski
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Thu Mar 11, 2021 4:05 pm

I mean, all the airlines are just throwing darts at the map right now, right? IAD-AUS seems opportunistic and more about AUS than DCA/IAD, but it's interesting.
 
blockski
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Fri Mar 12, 2021 2:46 pm

USAirALB wrote:
washingtonflyer wrote:
No Metro to Dulles until early 2022 now:

https://dcist.com/story/21/03/05/metro- ... ntil-2022/

Honestly, is anyone surprised?

The stations have literally been complete for almost 3 years now, and IIRC, I read somewhere that there are components on Phase II that are actually about to be out of warranty and MWAA/WMATA is essentially going to have to fork over money to the contractor if they want to have the warranties removed. I am honestly so flabbergasted as I thought the reasoning for shutting down the entire Silver Line last summer as it would speed along the project, and Wiedefeld literally just said either in January or February that the extension was on track for a Fall 2021 opening.


I wanted to come back to this and note some of the things that have changed:

1. It's not a good look for MWAA, given all the problems that Phase 2 has had. I'm not sure what happened, but they've been systemic.

The initial delays were due to a systemic design change related to new stormwater regulations. OK, fine. Then they fell behind on construction (it happens), and then the shoddy workmanship came to light. I don't know if it's because the MWAA project management is different, or because the political interests in Virginia demanded they not use a Project Labor Agreement, or just because the contractors are different or what... but it's a mess.

MWAA can obviously deliver other large capital projects just fine. I'm not sure if the issues here are just a matter of sunlight, and we're only privy to them because of the handoff between MWAA and WMATA, or what.

2. WMATA is feeling their oats and scrutinizing every last detail. Given the feedback loop with the increased scrutiny as well as an agency-wide focus on repair (remember that when Phase 1 opened, that was before SafeTrack and before Metro's dedicated capital funding).

They've also had a list of issues now that they've owned and operated Phase 1 for six years, giving them a lot of clues about what to look for.

3. The Pandemic: normally, there would be immense pressure (public and financial) to get the thing open as fast as possible. But with the pandemic, WMATA has the opposite pressure. They want to delay the start-up operating costs as long as they can and have support in that from their funders (e.g. local jurisdictions). The public pressure from riders is greatly diminished. MWAA wants to be done, but they have very little leverage to speed things up.

Honestly at this point I don't see the extension opening before November 2022. I guarantee you WMATA is going to find something they aren't happy with on the extension upon accepting it and starting testing, and will drag their feet with MWAA and the contractors in rectifying the issue.

What a joke


Metro is saying February 2022: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/tr ... story.html

And given that they're the ones in control of that timeline and not MWAA, there's no reason to doubt that date. It's also an announcement that's clearly linked to the passage of the new Rescue bill in congress, which removes a ton of uncertainty from WMATA's budget projections.

As a practical matter, I'm sure they'd like to open the new line with the virus under control and have a chance to make a great first impression with ridership, too.
 
iadbudd
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Re: DC Airports Thread - 2021

Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:24 pm

N292UX wrote:
UA announced IAD-BGI today, beginning in December 2021. I'm pretty sure this is the first time anyone has tried IAD-BGI.

UA also added seasonal MYR/ECP out of IAD. WN will also be starting Saturday-only DCA-ECP alongside DCA-JAX/PNS on top of their BWI service.

Meanwhile the UA transatlantic schedule from IAD in March currently includes LHR, BRU, ZRH, FRA, and MUC. The April schedule is yet to be released but I doubt much will change. I think there's a decent chance CDG/AMS may come back over the summer but we will have to see.


IAD-BGI was flown for a bit in the late 90's when BWIA flew to Dulles. They had different routes out of IAD, mainly IAD-POS, they had IAD-BGI as well as IAD-POS-TAB. I think the IAD-BGI was only when they were using their MD-83. BWIA service out of Dulles started with a 737-700 then went to the MD-83 and then to the 737-800 when they got 6 brand new ones of those.
 
iadbudd
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Re: DC Airports Thread - 2021

Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:35 pm

smokeybandit wrote:
BWI's baggage sorting facility can come none too soon.

I flew threw there over Christmas. Took well over a half hour for our bags to arrive on the carousel (which has been our typical experience from when we lived there). Compare that to DEN, our bags were already on the carousel when we got there.


Baggage sorting facilities don't effect inbound bag delivery times. The benefits of the sortation improvements are mainly sorting connecting bags and decreasing the amount of missed connecting bags. Also TSA screening of outbound bags checked at the counter. Waiting for your bags at the carousel has more to do with manpower and time to physically unload each bag out of the bin and put into the cart as well as distance driven from the gate to the belt area. Some passengers gates are close to the terminal and can get to the carousel pretty quickly and then have to wait quite a bit. That is one reason people try to maximize their carry on ability instead of checking a bag.
 
iadbudd
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Re: DC Airports Thread - 2021

Sat Mar 13, 2021 2:51 pm

DCA350 wrote:
Just flew out of IAD on early Wednesday morning, 1:30am.. Noticed a BA A350K overnighting at the gate. Is this normal? I don't recall the European carriers overnighting at IAD in the past.



Just a way for BA to stretch out and better manage their A350 fleet during COVID flying. The inbound BA flight arrives at 2030 and leaves at 2235 so normally that is plenty of time to turn the same aircraft back. By offloading it and closing it up to sit for 26 hours and use the one that came in the previous night for the departure, they can store a spare A350 at Dulles which has plenty of space compared to LHR or elsewhere.
 
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msp747
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:22 pm

USAirALB wrote:
As part of their AUS expansion, AA is launching a twice daily IAD-AUS service this August. Equipment will be A319s.

There was a public statement from an AA exec (that looks like it was removed) that essentially said something like "we would rather fly this out of DCA, but can't because of lack of perimeter slots".

This announcement is interesting to me because I believe it is likely the first time AA has shown a willingness to fly routes out of IAD that would not be possible out of DCA. Obviously AA knows the market quite well, and they have a considerable number of frequent flyers in the area. Given their recent partnership with AS, I wonder if AA would be willing to launch say IAD-SFO/SEA/SAN. I have status on AA, and would prefer to keep my loyalties to them, just for simplicity sake. I am often split between choosing AA out of DCA (and making a connection) or venturing out to IAD and fly a nonstop on UA, where I don't have any status. AA launching beyond-perimeter flights out of Dulles would be a life-saver for me, and I am sure I am not the only one.

Granted, I feel like most of this is a pipe dream, as AA hasn't announced a resumption of IAD-LAX, and given that every other route seems to have a resumption date, I am worried it's not coming back.

Those are routes that AS flew pre-pandemic. Not sure if LAX/SFO are coming back, but if they did, wouldn't your status with AA be good on AS?
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Sun Mar 14, 2021 1:15 am

AS has tried a number of things at DCA: DAL-DCA etc.
 
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BWIAirport
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Sun Mar 14, 2021 9:10 pm

washingtonflyer wrote:
AS has tried a number of things at DCA: DAL-DCA etc.

That was inherited from the Virgin America merger. Not an explicit route choice by AS and certainly one they never intended to fly long-term.
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MohawkWeekend
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:19 pm

A kinda out in the wild thought - today there is a neat picture taken from the cockpit of a 737 landing at SDU Rio's city airport by Jan Mogren on the first page of this website. (Couldn't figure out how to link picture but its a close in parallel runway on a very small piece of real estate)

Wouldn't a similar set up at DCA make it safer and more efficient? (Sorry if this has been discussed before). SFO has about the same but way more land than these 2 airports.
    300 319 320 321 707 717 720 727 72S 737 73S 734 735 73G 738 739 747 757 762 ARJ B11 C212 CRJ CR2 CR7 CR9 CV5 D8S DC9 D9S D94 D95 D10 DH8 DTO EMB EM2 E135 E145 E190 FH7 F28 F100 FTRIMTR HRN L10 L15 M80 M90 SF3 SWM YS11
     
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    Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

    Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:10 pm

    MohawkWeekend wrote:
    A kinda out in the wild thought - today there is a neat picture taken from the cockpit of a 737 landing at SDU Rio's city airport by Jan Mogren on the first page of this website. (Couldn't figure out how to link picture but its a close in parallel runway on a very small piece of real estate)

    Wouldn't a similar set up at DCA make it safer and more efficient? (Sorry if this has been discussed before). SFO has about the same but way more land than these 2 airports.

    To post a photo use the photoid tags around the photographs database ID

    [photoid]379202[/photoid]



    You can also use the twoid and threeid tags to post two or three photographs together:

    [twoid]2658343,1276491[/twoid]
    [threeid]6041615,4549391,2553635[/threeid]




    I’ll defer to someone more familiar with DCA to asvuse how realistic such a set-up would be, but my immediate thought is a combination of lack of land space and airspace procedures around DC would mean a parallel runway wouldn’t be practical.

    V/F
    It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
     
    blockski
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    Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

    Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:38 pm

    Some MWAA Board Meeting documents are up for their March meeting:

    https://www.mwaa.com/sites/default/file ... ourney.pdf

    This includes some updates on the opening of the New North Concourse, including some diagrams for how they'll make it work with the existing security checkpoint. They're adding a small temporary wall that will divert departing passengers a bit, but allow people to walk into the new connector from the existing checkpoint.

    There are also some nice photos of the installation of glass in the lightwells that were previously open air from the baggage claim level up to National Hall, which will still allow for light to seep in (and for passengers post-security to look down into the bag claim)

    From the pictures of the concourse itself, it sure looks like they've got a lot of stuff left to do, but they think they can get it to AA in April for their fit-out...

    MWAA is also working on a design for re-doing the taxiways on the north end of the airport to re-align taxiways and hold bays to reduce the chance of runway incursions. https://www.mwaa.com/sites/default/file ... irport.pdf

    Which kinda gets at the suggestion for a closely spaced parallel runway at DCA - it wouldn't provide much operational benefit (basically, you could use one runway for arrivals and one for departures, but that doesn't really add much airfield capacity. That's not the limitation at DCA).
     
    MohawkWeekend
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    Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

    Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:07 pm

    I was thinking more on the lines of reducing incursions (safety) and that delay while the landing aircraft must clear the runway. T/O aircraft must sit for a bit, burning fuel along with the savings by speeding up take-offs?

    Does anyone have the number of go-arounds that occur because the take off aircraft hasn't cleared the runway and the landing aircraft doesn't like what he/she sees? From an observers standpoint, the pucker factor is there a lot. Perhaps they can reduce landing separation distances if no one was using the landing runway for departures. (anyone here from ATC?)

    Wonder if this would work at LGA when they are using just one runway due to winds. I've waited in that line a couple of times. And think about if a runway needs plowing or must be taken out of service for a bit. Justify it by saying it saves on CO2 emissions and adds to safety.

    Read they are looking at a $4 trillion dollar infrastructure bill. About a billion for this runway.
      300 319 320 321 707 717 720 727 72S 737 73S 734 735 73G 738 739 747 757 762 ARJ B11 C212 CRJ CR2 CR7 CR9 CV5 D8S DC9 D9S D94 D95 D10 DH8 DTO EMB EM2 E135 E145 E190 FH7 F28 F100 FTRIMTR HRN L10 L15 M80 M90 SF3 SWM YS11
       
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      Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

      Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:13 pm

      VirginFlyer wrote:
      MohawkWeekend wrote:
      A kinda out in the wild thought - today there is a neat picture taken from the cockpit of a 737 landing at SDU Rio's city airport by Jan Mogren on the first page of this website. (Couldn't figure out how to link picture but its a close in parallel runway on a very small piece of real estate)

      Wouldn't a similar set up at DCA make it safer and more efficient? (Sorry if this has been discussed before). SFO has about the same but way more land than these 2 airports.

      To post a photo use the photoid tags around the photographs database ID

      [photoid]379202[/photoid]



      You can also use the twoid and threeid tags to post two or three photographs together:

      [twoid]2658343,1276491[/twoid]
      [threeid]6041615,4549391,2553635[/threeid]




      I’ll defer to someone more familiar with DCA to asvuse how realistic such a set-up would be, but my immediate thought is a combination of lack of land space and airspace procedures around DC would mean a parallel runway wouldn’t be practical.

      V/F


      What's the goal? Simultaneous operations with one used for T/O and one for landing? If so, the chief obstacle there would be that you'd need a ton of landfill to get a usable outer runway for landing. Even the 750 foot separation (SFO) would require a lot of fill for taxiways, overruns, etc., and even more if you wanted one as long as 1/19.

      They'd be so close together that I don't see why the airspace procedures would be different, but you'd just be creating a traffic jam on the ground. It would be heaven for ground controllers who like to say "hold short."
       
      MohawkWeekend
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      Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

      Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:31 pm

      Wouldnt it be "cross 19R, cleared for t/o 19L" ? No more "taxi in position and hold RWY 19" and then "cleared for t/o RWY 19 w/o delay" ?

      Plus looking at the aerial view of DCA, it appears that the runway could be built with limited fill if the separation was similar to Rio's. Not sure what US rules are.
        300 319 320 321 707 717 720 727 72S 737 73S 734 735 73G 738 739 747 757 762 ARJ B11 C212 CRJ CR2 CR7 CR9 CV5 D8S DC9 D9S D94 D95 D10 DH8 DTO EMB EM2 E135 E145 E190 FH7 F28 F100 FTRIMTR HRN L10 L15 M80 M90 SF3 SWM YS11
         
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        Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

        Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:03 pm

        MohawkWeekend wrote:
        Wouldnt it be "cross 19R, cleared for t/o 19L" ? No more "taxi in position and hold RWY 19" and then "cleared for t/o RWY 19 w/o delay" ?

        Plus looking at the aerial view of DCA, it appears that the runway could be built with limited fill if the separation was similar to Rio's. Not sure what US rules are.

        There's a 0% of another runway being built at DCA. Let me preface this by saying I'm not a tower/TRACON guy, but I know just enough about it and DCA to get myself into trouble.

        Even if building a parallel runway closer than 4500ft apart (the minimum for simultaneous independent ops) were possible, which it isn't for a multitude of reasons, it would still be so procedurally inefficient as to be a total waste of a billion dollars.

        Runways that close together are treated as one runway, which means the go-around on the arriving aircraft needs to be protected. Given the prohibited airspace, there's really only one way for airplanes to fly, so it lacks the general airspace flexibility that most towers enjoy. There might be a very modest increase in the arrival rate under visual conditions (I would venture a guess that it would be less than five more per hour), but it would do absolutely nothing to increase the rate in IFR conditions. If visual separation doesn't exist or isn't possible, then there is nothing to be gained.

        All of that aside, there's no political will, the mere idea of building into the Potomac is a complete non-starter, and the fact that IAD has four runways and room for growth means the idea would never get off the ground. The procedural challenges alone just make it an impossible idea. DCA is effectively a one runway airport, and that's how it operates most efficiently. It is intended to be the "premium" airport, and under times of normal traffic, it operates at its maximum (if I'm being honest, it's beyond its maximum). Another runway won't provide a meaningful increase in rates, and it defeats the purpose of having IAD and BWI. That billion dollars is better spent elsewhere — I'll offer the C/D concourse at IAD as tribute.

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