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blockski
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:14 pm

KMCOFlyer wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:

MWAA has yet to publish terminal maps that show the new flow. The video has been out for months, but doesn’t clearly show the entire passenger flow. For those of us who regularly have to check bags for work it’s unclear once you cross the bridge from parking where you’ll go upstairs. Currently you do this from National Hall. And the Delta agents have told me they don’t expect to have their lower level bag drop after the renovations are complete. So again, I’m going off of the confusion multiple ticket counter agents have told me.

It will be interesting to see how it all works once it’s done.


This pdf docket has a floor plan. (https://www.mwaa.com/sites/default/file ... rogram.pdf). I’m not sure why the DL agent said they won’t be getting their Level 2 Metro bridge bag drop counter back. The floor plan shows space for 2 mini check in desk at both the north and south checkpoint and they are slated to be in roughly the same area they were in pre-construction.
Image


Those specific plans and diagrams are from the EA, and the specific design has changed a bit, but the basic concept and circulation pattern is essentially the same.
 
KMCOFlyer
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:51 pm

blockski wrote:
KMCOFlyer wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:

MWAA has yet to publish terminal maps that show the new flow. The video has been out for months, but doesn’t clearly show the entire passenger flow. For those of us who regularly have to check bags for work it’s unclear once you cross the bridge from parking where you’ll go upstairs. Currently you do this from National Hall. And the Delta agents have told me they don’t expect to have their lower level bag drop after the renovations are complete. So again, I’m going off of the confusion multiple ticket counter agents have told me.

It will be interesting to see how it all works once it’s done.


This pdf docket has a floor plan. (https://www.mwaa.com/sites/default/file ... rogram.pdf). I’m not sure why the DL agent said they won’t be getting their Level 2 Metro bridge bag drop counter back. The floor plan shows space for 2 mini check in desk at both the north and south checkpoint and they are slated to be in roughly the same area they were in pre-construction.
Image


Those specific plans and diagrams are from the EA, and the specific design has changed a bit, but the basic concept and circulation pattern is essentially the same.


Will the new design still have room for the DL 2nd floor/Metro level bag drop counter at the south checkpoint?
 
dcaproducer
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:33 pm

KMCOFlyer wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:

MWAA has yet to publish terminal maps that show the new flow. The video has been out for months, but doesn’t clearly show the entire passenger flow. For those of us who regularly have to check bags for work it’s unclear once you cross the bridge from parking where you’ll go upstairs. Currently you do this from National Hall. And the Delta agents have told me they don’t expect to have their lower level bag drop after the renovations are complete. So again, I’m going off of the confusion multiple ticket counter agents have told me.

It will be interesting to see how it all works once it’s done.


This pdf docket has a floor plan. (https://www.mwaa.com/sites/default/file ... rogram.pdf). I’m not sure why the DL agent said they won’t be getting their Level 2 Metro bridge bag drop counter back. The floor plan shows space for 2 mini check in desk at both the north and south checkpoint and they are slated to be in roughly the same area they were in pre-construction.
Image


Thanks for finding this. If this floor plan is what they build, this will work out well. The DL agents aren’t always the most well informed and they were under the impression the lower level bag check wouldn’t be staying. They also thought the security checkpoint would be farther away, but this map indicates it will be pretty close to the present location. This makes so much more sense.
 
graham697
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:45 pm

dcaproducer wrote:
KMCOFlyer wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:

MWAA has yet to publish terminal maps that show the new flow. The video has been out for months, but doesn’t clearly show the entire passenger flow. For those of us who regularly have to check bags for work it’s unclear once you cross the bridge from parking where you’ll go upstairs. Currently you do this from National Hall. And the Delta agents have told me they don’t expect to have their lower level bag drop after the renovations are complete. So again, I’m going off of the confusion multiple ticket counter agents have told me.

It will be interesting to see how it all works once it’s done.


This pdf docket has a floor plan. (https://www.mwaa.com/sites/default/file ... rogram.pdf). I’m not sure why the DL agent said they won’t be getting their Level 2 Metro bridge bag drop counter back. The floor plan shows space for 2 mini check in desk at both the north and south checkpoint and they are slated to be in roughly the same area they were in pre-construction.
Image


Thanks for finding this. If this floor plan is what they build, this will work out well. The DL agents aren’t always the most well informed and they were under the impression the lower level bag check wouldn’t be staying. They also thought the security checkpoint would be farther away, but this map indicates it will be pretty close to the present location. This makes so much more sense.


In my other home airport, TPA - they outsource bag check at the Rental Car facility to a third party which supported all airlines. Maybe it would make sense for them to do that?
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:34 am

Forgive me if I missed it, but any updates on the new Polaris Lounge at IAD? Just curious if work was slowed or halted due to covid. I think it was originally supposed to open sometime early next year, wasn't it?
 
capitalflyer
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:45 pm

The action has begun. Winds have picked up considerably. IAD using 30 for arrivals. Just watched a Brickyard with a rough landing at DCA using 1. Should have used 33!

ANA 9652 went around. This is an odd flight number, what would this be? FR24 states it is 789. Also, Emirates 2543 from CPH landed and went to B. Someone stated previously this was a cargo flight. Is that the same for the ANA? Are they doing these special cargo flights to position for pax return flights assuming reduced schedules? Perhaps better than leaving a plane sit for 3 days waiting for next departure.
 
capitalflyer
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:26 pm

Antonov 124 just landed on RWY 30! Wonder what she is carrying? A Globemaster (C-17) landed about 30 minutes or so ago as well.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:53 pm

capitalflyer wrote:
The action has begun. Winds have picked up considerably. IAD using 30 for arrivals. Just watched a Brickyard with a rough landing at DCA using 1. Should have used 33!

ANA 9652 went around. This is an odd flight number, what would this be? FR24 states it is 789. Also, Emirates 2543 from CPH landed and went to B. Someone stated previously this was a cargo flight. Is that the same for the ANA? Are they doing these special cargo flights to position for pax return flights assuming reduced schedules? Perhaps better than leaving a plane sit for 3 days waiting for next departure.

Yes, they're both cargo flights. I doubt it was ever intended to carry passengers. Even DL is running cargo only 752 routes on random domestic flights, mostly out of CLT and PHL it seems. Clearly there's still a massive cargo demand out there.

Looks like today was a good day to not be working though. It isn't too often that ops are restricted to 30, but when it is, it is an absolute mess. Hopefully they'll get a parallel crosswind sometime before I retire.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Sat May 01, 2021 3:02 am

capitalflyer wrote:
Antonov 124 just landed on RWY 30! Wonder what she is carrying? A Globemaster (C-17) landed about 30 minutes or so ago as well.

If you're talking about IAD, they see some real interesting metal fly in. I flew AMS-IAD and on final I spotted Gambias IL62 hanging out on the ramp. It was a great sight!
 
avi8
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Sat May 01, 2021 3:08 am

capitalflyer wrote:
The action has begun. Winds have picked up considerably. IAD using 30 for arrivals. Just watched a Brickyard with a rough landing at DCA using 1. Should have used 33!

ANA 9652 went around. This is an odd flight number, what would this be? FR24 states it is 789. Also, Emirates 2543 from CPH landed and went to B. Someone stated previously this was a cargo flight. Is that the same for the ANA? Are they doing these special cargo flights to position for pax return flights assuming reduced schedules? Perhaps better than leaving a plane sit for 3 days waiting for next departure.



I flew through IAD today and it was very windy. Inbound came late because of wind as well and then an extra hour delay due to congestion at the airport when we were departing.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Sat May 01, 2021 1:33 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
capitalflyer wrote:
Antonov 124 just landed on RWY 30! Wonder what she is carrying? A Globemaster (C-17) landed about 30 minutes or so ago as well.

If you're talking about IAD, they see some real interesting metal fly in. I flew AMS-IAD and on final I spotted Gambias IL62 hanging out on the ramp. It was a great sight!

I had that An124 rumble out right over my house at about 10:30 last night. It's probably the second or third time I've had it fly over since I moved back here, and it's always such a unique sound.

IAD definitely does get some interesting stuff, usually along the lines of foreign government aircraft. Nothing quite as cool as an IL-62 — I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to issue that thing a "descend via".
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Sat May 01, 2021 3:02 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
capitalflyer wrote:
Antonov 124 just landed on RWY 30! Wonder what she is carrying? A Globemaster (C-17) landed about 30 minutes or so ago as well.

If you're talking about IAD, they see some real interesting metal fly in. I flew AMS-IAD and on final I spotted Gambias IL62 hanging out on the ramp. It was a great sight!

I had that An124 rumble out right over my house at about 10:30 last night. It's probably the second or third time I've had it fly over since I moved back here, and it's always such a unique sound.

IAD definitely does get some interesting stuff, usually along the lines of foreign government aircraft. Nothing quite as cool as an IL-62 — I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to issue that thing a "descend via".

Growing up under 27 in IAH, 124s we're not uncommon. And they are very unique in sound. Same with the AN12, very unique sound (can drown out middle schoolers playing football) and more smokey than a Frenchman!
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Mon May 03, 2021 2:58 am

There was a massive number of missed approaches at DCA the other day and unstable approaches. All sorts of heavy aircraft landing on 33.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Mon May 03, 2021 9:34 pm

washingtonflyer wrote:
There was a massive number of missed approaches at DCA the other day and unstable approaches. All sorts of heavy aircraft landing on 33.

I think you mean large aircraft — DCA doesn't see any heavies! capitalflyer started a thread on it a couple of days ago viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1460395

Obviously it was one heck of a windy day. 55kt+ gusts recorded at IAD and DCA. IAD was restricted to Runway 30 for departures and arrivals for a while during the afternoon bank, which I can tell you from experience creates an absolute mess of a situation. Windy days like that usually lead to diversions down to RIC or ORF. Fortunately it doesn't tend to happen more than a couple of times each year. Those gusts are about as high as I've seen in quite a while though.
 
USAirALB
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Tue May 04, 2021 2:25 pm

I flew into DCA on Sunday night and I noticed a couple of things:

1) You now exit security from Gates 35-45 by way of the connector to the new concourse. It looks like the moving walkways aren't quite open, and the whole facility had that fresh paint/new building smell.

2) There were automated exit lanes being installed at the baggage claim level of the terminal. There was a sign on the system saying something akin to "new one-way exit lanes allowing you to directly exit to the baggage claim level from your gate". Very confused on how the arrival passenger flow will look like once the new security checkpoints open. Will exiting onto the baggage claim level now be the only way to exit the secure area of the terminal?
 
blockski
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Tue May 04, 2021 5:02 pm

USAirALB wrote:
2) There were automated exit lanes being installed at the baggage claim level of the terminal. There was a sign on the system saying something akin to "new one-way exit lanes allowing you to directly exit to the baggage claim level from your gate". Very confused on how the arrival passenger flow will look like once the new security checkpoints open. Will exiting onto the baggage claim level now be the only way to exit the secure area of the terminal?


No. You'll be able to exit directly to the Metro bridge on level 2 (the concourse/gates level) as shown in the diagrams posted earlier in this thread.

Exiting on level 2 will involve passing through a staffed exit, since you'll make that exit near the security checkpoint.

If you're heading to baggage claim or the arrivals level, you'll first go down the stairs/escalator, and then pass the threshold (via the automated exit lanes) into the non-secure portion of the airport. My understanding is that they did this to help save space.

Even if you take the wrong exit, there will be plenty of vertical circulation on the non-secure side to get passengers back up to the Metro bridge/security checkpoint (level 2) or to ticketing (level 3) if needed.
 
USAirALB
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 2:55 am

In an interesting (yet sad) change, it looks like IAD is losing DFW mainline service for the summer. The service is currently running as 2x 738 and was scheduled to increase back up to 3x 738 daily. Looks like it will instead run as 2x E175, which is a huge capacity reduction.

Planned resumption of mainline service to CLT will not occur either, with the route remaining with 5x CR7/CR9 for the summer.

Mainline service to CLT (1x A320) along with increased CR9 flights, along with the resumption of 3x 738 DFW service is supposed to resume on 17 August, but we will see if that sticks, or if mainline returns. 17 August is also the date IAD-AUS is scheduled to start.

I flew IAD-DFW last Thursday on my way to PSP and struck up a conversation with the friendly agent who checked my bags regarding IAD-LAX. She said "I'm optimistic but it isn't in the schedule and I fear it won't come back, especially now with Alaska over there in oneworld."

I somewhat wonder why AA even bothers with IAD at this point. It's sad-AA (well Piedmont) has some incredibly friendly and caring customer service agents there.
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 1:48 pm

IAD agents are DCA agents who are taking the assignment to staff IAD - or thats how it used to work.
 
USAirALB
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 8:18 pm

I assumed that everything at IAD was handled by Piedmont at this point. The gate agent the other day was wearing a safety vest with the Piedmont logo on it as were the rest of the ground staff. The Piedmont route map (https://piedmont-airlines.com/about/routes-locations/) seems to confirm this.
 
jplatts
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 11:45 pm

USAirALB wrote:
I somewhat wonder why AA even bothers with IAD at this point. It's sad-AA (well Piedmont) has some incredibly friendly and caring customer service agents there.


WN adding IAD-DAL nonstop service might be a possibility with
(a) DFW having significant demand from IAD prior to the COVID-19 pandemic,
(b) WN having a significant FF base in both the WAS and DFW/DAL markets to support IAD-DAL nonstop service on WN, and
(c) there is a significant amount of population on the west side of the Washington Metropolitan Area (including in Loudoun County, Prince William County, Manassas, Manassas Park, and western Fairfax County).

One reason why AA still maintains a presence at IAD is due to the significant amount of population on the west side of the Washington Metropolitan Area. AA also had over 50% market share on O&D on both IAD-CLT and IAD-DFW through at least Q4 2020.

AA's oneworld partners BA, IB, QR, and AT serve IAD, but there is the AA FF base in DC, the BA/IB FF base in Europe, the QR FF base in the Middle East, and the AT FF base in Africa to support BA/IB/QR/AT service out of IAD.

While AA doesn't serve ORD, LAX, MIA, LGA, JFK, PHL, or PHX nonstop from IAD, AA still serves its ORD, LAX, MIA, LGA, JFK, PHL, and PHX hubs nonstop from its DCA hub.

There is less of a need for AA to serve PHL nonstop from IAD with
(a) the majority of the traffic on AA PHL-DCA nonstop flights and UA PHL-IAD nonstop flights being connecting traffic,
(b) AA already serving most of its Northeastern destinations nonstop from DCA, and
(c) AA's partners BA and IB being able to connect passengers to other European destinations from IAD through European hubs.

AA is also carrying some connecting traffic to the Northeastern U.S., Eastern Canada, and Europe from DCA through PHL along with some connecting traffic to the Southeastern U.S. from PHL through DCA.

AA could re-add IAD-ORD/MIA nonstop service and add IAD-PHX nonstop service once demand recovers in order to be more competitive in the WAS market, and AA has a FF base in the WAS market (due to the AA DCA hub and former US BWI hub) to support IAD-ORD/MIA/PHX nonstop service on AA.

HP and US both previously served PHX nonstop from IAD, but US dropped IAD-PHX nonstop service prior to the AA-US merger and back when US and UA were both in Star Alliance. The situation has changed since US dropped IAD-PHX nonstop service with the AA-US merger, the discontinuation of the US-UA partnership, the post-merger AA remaining in the oneworld alliance, and the significant FF bases that AA gained in both markets as a result of the AA-US merger.

WN adding IAD-PHX nonstop service might be a possibility with (a) the FF base that WN has in both PHX and WAS markets, (b) PHX being outside of the DCA perimeter, (c) IAD being far enough from BWI with IAD being almost 60 miles from BWI, and (d) connecting opportunities available to LAS and Southern California through PHX on WN.
 
rhysflies
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Thu May 06, 2021 7:18 am

atcsundevil wrote:
Forgive me if I missed it, but any updates on the new Polaris Lounge at IAD? Just curious if work was slowed or halted due to covid. I think it was originally supposed to open sometime early next year, wasn't it?

It was paused in May last year, but at the time called 'almost finished' or "reached substantial completion of construction." as an official called it...

Although with international flights still not there yet, they may wait to re-open. Hopefully a UK-US travel corridor will bring things back up to speed.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Thu May 06, 2021 4:20 pm

rhysflies wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
Forgive me if I missed it, but any updates on the new Polaris Lounge at IAD? Just curious if work was slowed or halted due to covid. I think it was originally supposed to open sometime early next year, wasn't it?

It was paused in May last year, but at the time called 'almost finished' or "reached substantial completion of construction." as an official called it...

Although with international flights still not there yet, they may wait to re-open. Hopefully a UK-US travel corridor will bring things back up to speed.

I see, so maybe it was originally supposed to open early this year then, but now it'll end up being sometime next year. I saw that United is starting to reopen more clubs (including one at IAD), but all of the Polaris lounges are still closed. I guess there's not much point in working on the IAD lounge if the rest of them aren't even open yet.
 
USAirALB
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Sat May 08, 2021 8:43 pm

Any reason why UA's evening flight to LHR would be using the B-Gates and a couple of United Express E-Jet flights would be using the Z-Gates tonight?
 
iadbudd
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Sun May 09, 2021 10:29 am

USAirALB wrote:
Any reason why UA's evening flight to LHR would be using the B-Gates and a couple of United Express E-Jet flights would be using the Z-Gates tonight?



UA has been using A32 for a few weeks now for the LHR flight since VS has not resumed service yet and that gate is available during the 5-6 pm UA bank which has a lot of departures and open gates are scarce, that's also why the Z gates are used as well during that bank.
 
iadbudd
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Sun May 09, 2021 10:37 am

capitalflyer wrote:
The action has begun. Winds have picked up considerably. IAD using 30 for arrivals. Just watched a Brickyard with a rough landing at DCA using 1. Should have used 33!

ANA 9652 went around. This is an odd flight number, what would this be? FR24 states it is 789. Also, Emirates 2543 from CPH landed and went to B. Someone stated previously this was a cargo flight. Is that the same for the ANA? Are they doing these special cargo flights to position for pax return flights assuming reduced schedules? Perhaps better than leaving a plane sit for 3 days waiting for next departure.


ANA has 10 flights a week. NH 9652 is the piggy back flight of NH 102 and comes in an hour or two after that leaves on three days. Only 3 of those NH 102 flights carry passengers. The rest are just 3 pilots and a belly full of cargo. Nothing else. Asian passenger demand is non existent practically. The pax flight barely has 50 pax per flight. Cargo demand has always been lucrative and this utilizes planes that would normally be parked and keeps the cargo customers happy as well as revenue. Emirates has been doing the same with those extra flights that stop in CPH for fuel. I'ts cheaper to stop halfway than gas up for the 14 hour flight in DXB. Cargo does not mind a two hour pit stop.
 
iadbudd
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Sun May 09, 2021 10:41 am

USAirALB wrote:
I assumed that everything at IAD was handled by Piedmont at this point. The gate agent the other day was wearing a safety vest with the Piedmont logo on it as were the rest of the ground staff. The Piedmont route map (https://piedmont-airlines.com/about/routes-locations/) seems to confirm this.


Yes below the wing at IAD is Piedmont for a few years now. They had two other ground handlers since AA stopped their own ground handling at IAD many years ago. I thought the passenger service side was still AA but might have switched to Piedmont as well.
 
iadbudd
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Sun May 09, 2021 10:43 am

capitalflyer wrote:
Antonov 124 just landed on RWY 30! Wonder what she is carrying? A Globemaster (C-17) landed about 30 minutes or so ago as well.


I believe that might have been a Indian Covid relief supply flight last week. A National 747 was here as well. The Antonov returned last night (May 8)
 
midex07
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Thu May 13, 2021 3:26 pm

So is there a gate limit at DCA or not?
 
graham697
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Fri May 14, 2021 12:29 pm

I don’t believe there is a codified gate limit like DAL.
 
jplatts
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Fri May 14, 2021 1:29 pm

graham697 wrote:
I don’t believe there is a codified gate limit like DAL.


Gates are not a limiting factor for WN at DCA as WN would probably be able to operate at least 70 daily departures out of 7 gates at DCA if the slot restrictions at DCA weren't there.

There are also a few more within-DCA perimeter destinations such as BOS, CHS, and MIA that might be able to support nonstop service out of DCA on WN once demand recovers with BOS, CHS, and MIA being top within-DCA perimeter destinations traveled to from the WAS market (including both BWI and DCA) that WN doesn't currently serve nonstop from DCA.

WN is down to 24 daily departures out of DCA in June 2021 from the 45 daily departures that it was operating out of DCA prior to the COVID-19 pandemic.

Here is the current breakdown of WN service out of DCA in June 2021:
2x ATL, 1x AUS, 4x MDW, 2x DAL, 1x FLL, 2x HOU, 1x JAX, 1x MKE, 4x BNA, 1x OMA, 2x MCO, 1x STL, 2x TPA
WN DCA-OKC Sunday-only
WN DCA-CMH/MCI/MSY/PVD nonstop service still suspended

There are also a few beyond-perimeter destinations that WN could serve nonstop from DCA such as DEN, LAS, and PHX if Congress changes the law to allow WN to convert a few of its existing within-perimeter slots to beyond-perimeter slot exemptions. DCA-LAS/PHX also currently lacks nonstop competition, whereas F9 and UA currently serve DEN nonstop from DCA.

DEN, LAS, and PHX are also the biggest WN hubs outside of the DCA perimeter, and WN also has a significant FF base in the DEN, LAS, PHX, and WAS markets to support DCA-DEN/LAS/PHX nonstop service if additional beyond-perimeter slot exemptions at DCA become available.

It probably makes sense for Congress to change the law to allow WN to convert a few of its within-perimeter slots at DCA to beyond-perimeter slot exemptions if the slots would otherwise go unused.

Will WN get back up to 45 daily departures out of DCA anytime soon?
 
blockski
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Fri May 14, 2021 3:52 pm

graham697 wrote:
I don’t believe there is a codified gate limit like DAL.


I think this is right; there's no codified gate limit.

The codified limit is instead slots; I don't think there has ever been an issue where an airline had slots but was unable to get gate space.

IIRC, a couple of the regional operators hold some slots themselves, but operate for other carriers. Otherwise, the smallest slot holder is Frontier, with just three slot pairs. They share several gates in terminal A for those few flights.
 
blockski
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Fri May 14, 2021 3:56 pm

jplatts wrote:
It probably makes sense for Congress to change the law to allow WN to convert a few of its within-perimeter slots at DCA to beyond-perimeter slot exemptions if the slots would otherwise go unused.


Makes sense for who? Congress has considered (and rejected) this quite recently; MWAA and other airlines are adamantly opposed.

There's also no particular pressure right now to use slots or exemptions - DCA and the other slot controlled airports won't face 'use it or lose it' pressure from the FAA through at least the fall.

I supposed the FAA (not Congress) could temporarily not enforce the perimeter rule, but that a) doesn't seem to be a particular constraint on travel right now, and b) it's not clear what an airline would gain from starting service on a flight that they'll have to stop by law as soon as enforcement starts up again.
 
jplatts
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Fri May 14, 2021 4:42 pm

blockski wrote:
Makes sense for who? Congress has considered (and rejected) this quite recently; MWAA and other airlines are adamantly opposed.


The situation is different than was the case prior to the COVID-19 pandemic due to slots that are currently unused at DCA.

Allowing WN to convert a few within-perimeter slots that would otherwise go unused to beyond-perimeter slot exemptions might make sense for both WN and for the customer as it would allow WN to hold onto slots at DCA that WN might stand to lose to another airline.
 
blockski
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Fri May 14, 2021 4:46 pm

jplatts wrote:
blockski wrote:
Makes sense for who? Congress has considered (and rejected) this quite recently; MWAA and other airlines are adamantly opposed.


The situation is different than was the case prior to the COVID-19 pandemic due to slots that are currently unused at DCA.


Yes, the situation is different. That's not a reason to change the perimeter rule.
 
EssentialBusDC
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Fri May 14, 2021 5:15 pm

jplatts wrote:
blockski wrote:
Makes sense for who? Congress has considered (and rejected) this quite recently; MWAA and other airlines are adamantly opposed.


The situation is different than was the case prior to the COVID-19 pandemic due to slots that are currently unused at DCA.

Allowing WN to convert a few within-perimeter slots that would otherwise go unused to beyond-perimeter slot exemptions might make sense for both WN and for the customer as it would allow WN to hold onto slots at DCA that WN might stand to lose to another airline.



Just for SWA?

Not going to happen. The only way would be for all airlines to be allowed to covert in perimeter slots for outside. And even that is doubtful.
 
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VCVSpotter
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Fri May 14, 2021 5:18 pm

IAD Spotters:
Y’all are getting a rare/unique visitor today, Ceiba Intercontinental 777-200LR CS-TQX filed VCV-IAD 10AM - 5:58PM for return to service. She was at VCV for maintenance at the Boeing hangar, not sure if anything else was done (such as paint) in the one month she’s been at VCV.
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Fri May 14, 2021 6:55 pm

jplatts wrote:
blockski wrote:
Makes sense for who? Congress has considered (and rejected) this quite recently; MWAA and other airlines are adamantly opposed.


The situation is different than was the case prior to the COVID-19 pandemic due to slots that are currently unused at DCA.

Allowing WN to convert a few within-perimeter slots that would otherwise go unused to beyond-perimeter slot exemptions might make sense for both WN and for the customer as it would allow WN to hold onto slots at DCA that WN might stand to lose to another airline.


Why would only WN be allowed to convert some within-perimeter slots to beyond-perimeter slots. I can guarantee you that UA/AA/DL/JB/AS would have a thing or two to say about that.
 
jplatts
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Sat May 15, 2021 1:01 am

washingtonflyer wrote:
Why would only WN be allowed to convert some within-perimeter slots to beyond-perimeter slots. I can guarantee you that UA/AA/DL/JB/AS would have a thing or two to say about that.


EssentialBusDC wrote:
Just for SWA?

Not going to happen. The only way would be for all airlines to be allowed to covert in perimeter slots for outside. And even that is doubtful.


I agree that WN would not be the only airline who would want to convert some within-perimeter slots to beyond-perimeter slots if Congress changes the law to allow airlines to convert a few within-perimeter DCA slots to beyond-perimeter slot exemptions.

DL would probably want to add DCA-SEA nonstop service if DL acquires additional beyond-perimeter slot exemptions at DCA (or is allowed to convert within-perimeter DCA slots to beyond-perimeter slot exemptions) with DL now having a hub at SEA.

UA might possibly want to add DCA-LAX nonstop service if UA acquires beyond-perimeter slot exemptions at DCA (or is allowed to convert within-perimeter DCA slots to beyond-perimeter slot exemptions) with UA having a LAX hub, even though UA already serves LAX nonstop from its IAD hub and LAX already has nonstop service from DCA on AA, AS, and DL.

I am unsure if AA would want to convert any within-perimeter slots to beyond-perimeter slot exemptions if Congress enacts legislation allowing AA to do so with AA having a hub at DCA and AA possibly wanting to hold onto the slots for within-perimeter routes that would be able to support nonstop service to DCA on AA once demand recovers. AA and its partner AS also already have a significant amount of nonstop service to the West Coast from DCA with the beyond-perimeter slot exemptions that both AA and AS already hold at DCA, whereas DL, WN, and UA do not currently have as many beyond-perimeter slot exemptions.
 
USAirALB
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Sat May 15, 2021 1:16 am

jplatts wrote:
washingtonflyer wrote:
Why would only WN be allowed to convert some within-perimeter slots to beyond-perimeter slots. I can guarantee you that UA/AA/DL/JB/AS would have a thing or two to say about that.


EssentialBusDC wrote:
Just for SWA?

Not going to happen. The only way would be for all airlines to be allowed to covert in perimeter slots for outside. And even that is doubtful.


I agree that WN would not be the only airline who would want to convert some within-perimeter slots to beyond-perimeter slots if Congress changes the law to allow airlines to convert a few within-perimeter DCA slots to beyond-perimeter slot exemptions.

DL would probably want to add DCA-SEA nonstop service if DL acquires additional beyond-perimeter slot exemptions at DCA (or is allowed to convert within-perimeter DCA slots to beyond-perimeter slot exemptions) with DL now having a hub at SEA.

UA might possibly want to add DCA-LAX nonstop service if UA acquires beyond-perimeter slot exemptions at DCA (or is allowed to convert within-perimeter DCA slots to beyond-perimeter slot exemptions) with UA having a LAX hub, even though UA already serves LAX nonstop from its IAD hub and LAX already has nonstop service from DCA on AA, AS, and DL.

I am unsure if AA would want to convert any within-perimeter slots to beyond-perimeter slot exemptions if Congress enacts legislation allowing AA to do so with AA having a hub at DCA and AA possibly wanting to hold onto the slots for within-perimeter routes that would be able to support nonstop service to DCA on AA once demand recovers. AA and its partner AS also already have a significant amount of nonstop service to the West Coast from DCA with the beyond-perimeter slot exemptions that both AA and AS already hold at DCA, whereas DL, WN, and UA do not currently have as many beyond-perimeter slot exemptions.

What's with all the talk about converting slots or gaining additional beyond-permitter slots? MWAA doesn't want this and there is little to no talk in congress about this.
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Sat May 15, 2021 2:07 am

UALFAson wrote:
capitalflyer wrote:
Interesting note from TPG article

"American’s managing director of DCA operations, Radney Robertson, told TPG that along with the new concourse, the carrier will upgauge all regional flying to two-cabin aircraft, such as the 65 seat CRJ-700, and 76-seat CRJ-900 and Embraer E175."

This means the end of the E45 and CR2 at DCA for AA. Further confirmation of what I think had been announced previously.


YES! I was pleasantly surprised by that! "Pleasantly" because I am not a fan of the CR2 period, let alone for longer flights like BNA, which is pushing 90 minutes westbound. But "surprised" because I find it hard to believe that some smaller cities in places like the Carolinas and NY State and New England can support 65-seat aircraft, especially right now. Oh well, better rides for everybody!


A few times I flew DCA-SRQ in an E75, the FA told me that the plane came from PWM in the morning! :boggled:
 
EssentialBusDC
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Sat May 15, 2021 12:10 pm

USAirALB wrote:
jplatts wrote:
washingtonflyer wrote:
Why would only WN be allowed to convert some within-perimeter slots to beyond-perimeter slots. I can guarantee you that UA/AA/DL/JB/AS would have a thing or two to say about that.


EssentialBusDC wrote:
Just for SWA?

Not going to happen. The only way would be for all airlines to be allowed to covert in perimeter slots for outside. And even that is doubtful.


I agree that WN would not be the only airline who would want to convert some within-perimeter slots to beyond-perimeter slots if Congress changes the law to allow airlines to convert a few within-perimeter DCA slots to beyond-perimeter slot exemptions.

DL would probably want to add DCA-SEA nonstop service if DL acquires additional beyond-perimeter slot exemptions at DCA (or is allowed to convert within-perimeter DCA slots to beyond-perimeter slot exemptions) with DL now having a hub at SEA.

UA might possibly want to add DCA-LAX nonstop service if UA acquires beyond-perimeter slot exemptions at DCA (or is allowed to convert within-perimeter DCA slots to beyond-perimeter slot exemptions) with UA having a LAX hub, even though UA already serves LAX nonstop from its IAD hub and LAX already has nonstop service from DCA on AA, AS, and DL.

I am unsure if AA would want to convert any within-perimeter slots to beyond-perimeter slot exemptions if Congress enacts legislation allowing AA to do so with AA having a hub at DCA and AA possibly wanting to hold onto the slots for within-perimeter routes that would be able to support nonstop service to DCA on AA once demand recovers. AA and its partner AS also already have a significant amount of nonstop service to the West Coast from DCA with the beyond-perimeter slot exemptions that both AA and AS already hold at DCA, whereas DL, WN, and UA do not currently have as many beyond-perimeter slot exemptions.

What's with all the talk about converting slots or gaining additional beyond-permitter slots? MWAA doesn't want this and there is little to no talk in congress about this.

It one poster theorizing. But only for the good of SWA it seems.
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Sat May 15, 2021 1:01 pm

jplatts wrote:
I am unsure if AA would want to convert any within-perimeter slots to beyond-perimeter slot exemptions if Congress enacts legislation allowing AA to do so with AA having a hub at DCA and AA possibly wanting to hold onto the slots for within-perimeter routes that would be able to support nonstop service to DCA on AA once demand recovers. AA and its partner AS also already have a significant amount of nonstop service to the West Coast from DCA with the beyond-perimeter slot exemptions that both AA and AS already hold at DCA, whereas DL, WN, and UA do not currently have as many beyond-perimeter slot exemptions.


Oh I can think of any number of places that AA would like to fly to out of DCA: SAN being at the top of that list. SFO, AUS, SAT, SJC, SEA, DEN, or additional frequencies to LAS/PHX/LAX.
 
FlyPNS1
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Sat May 15, 2021 1:04 pm

As mentioned on the United thread, UAL added back a third bank of flights at IAD at 10pm. Good to see some life getting breathed back into IAD.
 
graham697
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Sat May 15, 2021 2:50 pm

[*]
FlyPNS1 wrote:
As mentioned on the United thread, UAL added back a third bank of flights at IAD at 10pm. Good to see some life getting breathed back into IAD.


Same thing at DCA. Week if May 3rd, DCA was moderately busier than it’s been during COVID. Following week (post full schedule change though), it’s almost like the good old’ days. Luckily, the old “our gate is occupied” hasn’t returned, yet…
 
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msp747
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Sat May 15, 2021 3:32 pm

washingtonflyer wrote:
jplatts wrote:
I am unsure if AA would want to convert any within-perimeter slots to beyond-perimeter slot exemptions if Congress enacts legislation allowing AA to do so with AA having a hub at DCA and AA possibly wanting to hold onto the slots for within-perimeter routes that would be able to support nonstop service to DCA on AA once demand recovers. AA and its partner AS also already have a significant amount of nonstop service to the West Coast from DCA with the beyond-perimeter slot exemptions that both AA and AS already hold at DCA, whereas DL, WN, and UA do not currently have as many beyond-perimeter slot exemptions.


Oh I can think of any number of places that AA would like to fly to out of DCA: SAN being at the top of that list. SFO, AUS, SAT, SJC, SEA, DEN, or additional frequencies to LAS/PHX/LAX.

Didn't AA used to have DCA-SAN? I thought they moved the slot to LAX for an extra flight there.
 
N737ER
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Sat May 15, 2021 3:50 pm

msp747 wrote:
Didn't AA used to have DCA-SAN? I thought they moved the slot to LAX for an extra flight there.


US flew DCA-LAS and DCA-SAN both between 2012-2014. I'm not sure of other time periods those routes operated, but during those years I do remember seeing those flights as non-rev options to get back east.

National to San Diego started in June 2012: https://www.arlnow.com/2012/03/22/us-ai ... san-diego/
National to Las Vegas was probably a carryover from America West
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Sat May 15, 2021 4:14 pm

N737ER wrote:
msp747 wrote:
Didn't AA used to have DCA-SAN? I thought they moved the slot to LAX for an extra flight there.


US flew DCA-LAS and DCA-SAN both between 2012-2014. I'm not sure of other time periods those routes operated, but during those years I do remember seeing those flights as non-rev options to get back east.


AA flies 1x daily DCA-LAS and its a very popular flight. I can bet that AA would happily add a second. US flew DCA-SAN for a number of years and that flight was a very full flight. When AA and US merged, AA switched it to a second LAX flight to help with feed to LAX. But I can safely say that if AA had the option of converting or adding a beyond-perimeter slot, SAN would be at the top of the list. I believe that SAN is the largest stand-alone MSA that is unserved by non-stop service from DCA.
 
blockski
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 1:35 pm

USAirALB wrote:
jplatts wrote:
washingtonflyer wrote:
Why would only WN be allowed to convert some within-perimeter slots to beyond-perimeter slots. I can guarantee you that UA/AA/DL/JB/AS would have a thing or two to say about that.


EssentialBusDC wrote:
Just for SWA?

Not going to happen. The only way would be for all airlines to be allowed to covert in perimeter slots for outside. And even that is doubtful.


I agree that WN would not be the only airline who would want to convert some within-perimeter slots to beyond-perimeter slots if Congress changes the law to allow airlines to convert a few within-perimeter DCA slots to beyond-perimeter slot exemptions.

DL would probably want to add DCA-SEA nonstop service if DL acquires additional beyond-perimeter slot exemptions at DCA (or is allowed to convert within-perimeter DCA slots to beyond-perimeter slot exemptions) with DL now having a hub at SEA.

UA might possibly want to add DCA-LAX nonstop service if UA acquires beyond-perimeter slot exemptions at DCA (or is allowed to convert within-perimeter DCA slots to beyond-perimeter slot exemptions) with UA having a LAX hub, even though UA already serves LAX nonstop from its IAD hub and LAX already has nonstop service from DCA on AA, AS, and DL.

I am unsure if AA would want to convert any within-perimeter slots to beyond-perimeter slot exemptions if Congress enacts legislation allowing AA to do so with AA having a hub at DCA and AA possibly wanting to hold onto the slots for within-perimeter routes that would be able to support nonstop service to DCA on AA once demand recovers. AA and its partner AS also already have a significant amount of nonstop service to the West Coast from DCA with the beyond-perimeter slot exemptions that both AA and AS already hold at DCA, whereas DL, WN, and UA do not currently have as many beyond-perimeter slot exemptions.

What's with all the talk about converting slots or gaining additional beyond-permitter slots? MWAA doesn't want this and there is little to no talk in congress about this.


Yes - and any talk there is in Congress is just idle speculation or wish-casting. MWAA has worked to get the various Senators and Representatives in the region on board with the idea of blocking expansion to the perimeter.

The VA delegation likes that, as it helps boost Dulles. Same with the MD delegation and boosting BWI. And the DC delegation is also fine with it, as the current exemptions to the perimeter are basically fine - plus the DC folks are more likely to deal with noise complaints and the like.

---

I did just fly out of DCA this weekend for the first time in a long time (thanks to COVID) and my flight was out of the new concourse. It's still a work in progress - none of the restaurants are open yet. The only food is via the one grab-n-go store and a small Peets Coffee cart. However, the overall space is both reminiscent of the rest of the DCA terminal while also feeling more spacious. The connector walkway is extremely wide and open. The moving walkways aren't yet available, and I have a feeling they might eventually add some seating or something next to the windows once things are settled down and COVID is behind us, but it's easy enough to walk over to the next pier for food and beverage.

When arriving at the airport, there's still a lot of work to go on the new security checkpoints. They haven't yet started on the major reconfiguration of the vertical circulation from Ticketing down to the checkpoint. However, the majority of the screening wall on the ticketing level (separating National Hall from the unsecure ticketing level) is mostly finished and the result is far less obtrusive than I feared it would be.

You can also get a sense of the overall need for this project when arriving on an AA flight into the new concourse - with AA's ops now spread over three piers.
 
USAirALB
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 1:45 pm

blockski wrote:
the result is far less obtrusive than I feared it would be.

This was my observation, too.

I really think they did a great job with the glass panels and then the wire mesh above the panels. You still very much can feel connected to the National Hall at the ticketing level and it doesn't feel as sterile as I thought it would.
 
jplatts
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 10:15 pm

blockski wrote:
Yes - and any talk there is in Congress is just idle speculation or wish-casting. MWAA has worked to get the various Senators and Representatives in the region on board with the idea of blocking expansion to the perimeter.

The VA delegation likes that, as it helps boost Dulles. Same with the MD delegation and boosting BWI. And the DC delegation is also fine with it, as the current exemptions to the perimeter are basically fine - plus the DC folks are more likely to deal with noise complaints and the like.


There are some WN FF's in DC, Northern Virginia, Montgomery County, and Prince George's County who are willing to fly out of BWI to destinations in the Northeast, Carolinas, and the Western U.S., even if they live closer to DCA or IAD.

UA doesn't serve its LAX hub nonstop from DCA due to the DCA perimeter rule, but UA already has multiple daily nonstops to LAX from its IAD hub and many of the UA FF's in both markets who are traveling between LAX and WAS are willing to fly on UA's LAX-IAD nonstop flights.

There are some top beyond-perimeter markets such as AUS, DEN, SMF, SLC, SAT, and SAN that AA cannot currently serve nonstop from DCA due to the DCA perimeter rule, but there are multiple 1-stop connecting options to these markets from DCA on AA.

While AA doesn't serve PDX, SFO, SJU, or SEA nonstop from DCA, AA's partner AS serves PDX, SFO, and SEA nonstop from DCA (with beyond-perimeter slot exemptions held by AS) and AA's partner B6 serves SJU nonstop from DCA (with beyond-perimeter slot exemptions held by B6).

There are some more top within-perimeter destinations not currently served nonstop from DCA on AA that AA could add nonstop service to from DCA such as IAH, LEX, MSN, MKE, OMA, and TUL. TUL is also the largest within-DCA perimeter market in the U.S. (by metropolitan area population) that doesn't currently have any nonstop service to DCA.

DL doesn't serve its SEA hub nonstop from DCA, but (a) DL acquired its DCA beyond-perimeter slot exemptions prior to DL having a hub at SEA, (b) there are 1-stop connecting options to DCA from SEA through SLC, MSP, and DTW on DL, and (c) DL serves SEA nonstop from IAD in the WAS market.
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