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dcaproducer
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 10:52 pm

jplatts wrote:
blockski wrote:
Yes - and any talk there is in Congress is just idle speculation or wish-casting. MWAA has worked to get the various Senators and Representatives in the region on board with the idea of blocking expansion to the perimeter.

The VA delegation likes that, as it helps boost Dulles. Same with the MD delegation and boosting BWI. And the DC delegation is also fine with it, as the current exemptions to the perimeter are basically fine - plus the DC folks are more likely to deal with noise complaints and the like.


There are some WN FF's in DC, Northern Virginia, Montgomery County, and Prince George's County who are willing to fly out of BWI to destinations in the Northeast, Carolinas, and the Western U.S., even if they live closer to DCA or IAD.

UA doesn't serve its LAX hub nonstop from DCA due to the DCA perimeter rule, but UA already has multiple daily nonstops to LAX from its IAD hub and many of the UA FF's in both markets who are traveling between LAX and WAS are willing to fly on UA's LAX-IAD nonstop flights.

There are some top beyond-perimeter markets such as AUS, DEN, SMF, SLC, SAT, and SAN that AA cannot currently serve nonstop from DCA due to the DCA perimeter rule, but there are multiple 1-stop connecting options to these markets from DCA on AA.

While AA doesn't serve PDX, SFO, SJU, or SEA nonstop from DCA, AA's partner AS serves PDX, SFO, and SEA nonstop from DCA (with beyond-perimeter slot exemptions held by AS) and AA's partner B6 serves SJU nonstop from DCA (with beyond-perimeter slot exemptions held by B6).

There are some more top within-perimeter destinations not currently served nonstop from DCA on AA that AA could add nonstop service to from DCA such as IAH, LEX, MSN, MKE, OMA, and TUL. TUL is also the largest within-DCA perimeter market in the U.S. (by metropolitan area population) that doesn't currently have any nonstop service to DCA.

DL doesn't serve its SEA hub nonstop from DCA, but (a) DL acquired its DCA beyond-perimeter slot exemptions prior to DL having a hub at SEA, (b) there are 1-stop connecting options to DCA from SEA through SLC, MSP, and DTW on DL, and (c) DL serves SEA nonstop from IAD in the WAS market.


DL used to use two of their perimeter exemptions for SLC, one am and one pm flight. They took one of those slots for LAX and added a D1 equipped 75S.
AS and AA also fly nonstop to LAX.

DCA is always going to be the airport to connect higher fare passengers to key markets. With that said, I’ve seen fares between BWI, IAD and DCA get a lot closer over the past few years.
 
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Tue May 18, 2021 12:06 am

While both UA and WN have hubs and significant frequent flyer bases in both the WAS and IAH/HOU markets (with UA hubs at IAD/IAH and WN hubs at BWI/HOU), AA adding DCA-IAH nonstop service might be a possibility (even with UA and WN already serving HOU nonstop from DCA) with
(a) Houston being the largest U.S. metropolitan area without AA nonstop service from DCA,
(b) the connecting opportunities that would be there onto AA DCA-IAH flights from some Northeastern destinations if AA adds DCA-IAH nonstop service,
(c) there being some AA FF's in the WAS market who would avoid other airlines such as UA or WN whenever possible, even with the UA IAD hub and WN BWI hub, and
(d) IAH being the #2 within-DCA perimeter domestic destination (after FLL) by PDEW's that AA doesn't currently serve nonstop from DCA, but AA already serves its MIA hub in the MIA/FLL market nonstop from DCA.

AA also probably needs to add DCA-IAH nonstop service if AA has unused slots available at DCA to remain relevant to its FF base and its corporate contracts in the WAS market with Houston being an important within-perimeter market.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Tue May 18, 2021 12:01 pm

jplatts wrote:

AA also probably needs to add DCA-IAH nonstop service if AA has unused slots available at DCA to remain relevant to its FF base and its corporate contracts in the WAS market with Houston being an important within-perimeter market.


AA will be relevant to it's FF base with or without DCA-IAH/HOU service.
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blockski
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Tue May 18, 2021 1:27 pm

jplatts wrote:
blockski wrote:
Yes - and any talk there is in Congress is just idle speculation or wish-casting. MWAA has worked to get the various Senators and Representatives in the region on board with the idea of blocking expansion to the perimeter.

The VA delegation likes that, as it helps boost Dulles. Same with the MD delegation and boosting BWI. And the DC delegation is also fine with it, as the current exemptions to the perimeter are basically fine - plus the DC folks are more likely to deal with noise complaints and the like.


There are some WN FF's in DC, Northern Virginia, Montgomery County, and Prince George's County who are willing to fly out of BWI to destinations in the Northeast, Carolinas, and the Western U.S., even if they live closer to DCA or IAD.

UA doesn't serve its LAX hub nonstop from DCA due to the DCA perimeter rule, but UA already has multiple daily nonstops to LAX from its IAD hub and many of the UA FF's in both markets who are traveling between LAX and WAS are willing to fly on UA's LAX-IAD nonstop flights.

There are some top beyond-perimeter markets such as AUS, DEN, SMF, SLC, SAT, and SAN that AA cannot currently serve nonstop from DCA due to the DCA perimeter rule, but there are multiple 1-stop connecting options to these markets from DCA on AA.

While AA doesn't serve PDX, SFO, SJU, or SEA nonstop from DCA, AA's partner AS serves PDX, SFO, and SEA nonstop from DCA (with beyond-perimeter slot exemptions held by AS) and AA's partner B6 serves SJU nonstop from DCA (with beyond-perimeter slot exemptions held by B6).

There are some more top within-perimeter destinations not currently served nonstop from DCA on AA that AA could add nonstop service to from DCA such as IAH, LEX, MSN, MKE, OMA, and TUL. TUL is also the largest within-DCA perimeter market in the U.S. (by metropolitan area population) that doesn't currently have any nonstop service to DCA.

DL doesn't serve its SEA hub nonstop from DCA, but (a) DL acquired its DCA beyond-perimeter slot exemptions prior to DL having a hub at SEA, (b) there are 1-stop connecting options to DCA from SEA through SLC, MSP, and DTW on DL, and (c) DL serves SEA nonstop from IAD in the WAS market.


Yes, most of this is true - but so what? This isn't a good enough reason for MWAA to want to change the perimeter rule.

There's nothing (nothing!) stopping AA from starting service to MSN or MKE or OMA or TUL. Eliminating the perimeter rule would decrease the likelihood of AA serving those destinations, because the number of slots is a fixed commodity. It's not going to change. If AA could offer more transcon flights, they would - but the slots have to come from somewhere.

Could United use their slots for high value flights to LAX, DEN, and SFO? Sure - but eliminating the rule would also devalue their hub at IAD, which is why United is opposed to the change.

American would obviously have the most to gain since they hold the most slots, but the consequences would likely be a) MWAA using the escape clause in the lease to increase DCA's costs and divert more money to IAD (because MWAA's mandate from the Feds is to operate the two airports as a system), and b) AA getting a lot of political flak from various Senators representing small markets that would lose their flights, since DCA's slots aren't going away.

The larger point remains: MWAA doesn't want the perimeter rule to go away. And they've aligned their major tenant airlines (particularly UA and AA) behind this as well as the key members of Congress.
 
USAirALB
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Tue May 18, 2021 1:58 pm

blockski wrote:
jplatts wrote:
blockski wrote:
Yes - and any talk there is in Congress is just idle speculation or wish-casting. MWAA has worked to get the various Senators and Representatives in the region on board with the idea of blocking expansion to the perimeter.

The VA delegation likes that, as it helps boost Dulles. Same with the MD delegation and boosting BWI. And the DC delegation is also fine with it, as the current exemptions to the perimeter are basically fine - plus the DC folks are more likely to deal with noise complaints and the like.


There are some WN FF's in DC, Northern Virginia, Montgomery County, and Prince George's County who are willing to fly out of BWI to destinations in the Northeast, Carolinas, and the Western U.S., even if they live closer to DCA or IAD.

UA doesn't serve its LAX hub nonstop from DCA due to the DCA perimeter rule, but UA already has multiple daily nonstops to LAX from its IAD hub and many of the UA FF's in both markets who are traveling between LAX and WAS are willing to fly on UA's LAX-IAD nonstop flights.

There are some top beyond-perimeter markets such as AUS, DEN, SMF, SLC, SAT, and SAN that AA cannot currently serve nonstop from DCA due to the DCA perimeter rule, but there are multiple 1-stop connecting options to these markets from DCA on AA.

While AA doesn't serve PDX, SFO, SJU, or SEA nonstop from DCA, AA's partner AS serves PDX, SFO, and SEA nonstop from DCA (with beyond-perimeter slot exemptions held by AS) and AA's partner B6 serves SJU nonstop from DCA (with beyond-perimeter slot exemptions held by B6).

There are some more top within-perimeter destinations not currently served nonstop from DCA on AA that AA could add nonstop service to from DCA such as IAH, LEX, MSN, MKE, OMA, and TUL. TUL is also the largest within-DCA perimeter market in the U.S. (by metropolitan area population) that doesn't currently have any nonstop service to DCA.

DL doesn't serve its SEA hub nonstop from DCA, but (a) DL acquired its DCA beyond-perimeter slot exemptions prior to DL having a hub at SEA, (b) there are 1-stop connecting options to DCA from SEA through SLC, MSP, and DTW on DL, and (c) DL serves SEA nonstop from IAD in the WAS market.


Yes, most of this is true - but so what? This isn't a good enough reason for MWAA to want to change the perimeter rule.

There's nothing (nothing!) stopping AA from starting service to MSN or MKE or OMA or TUL. Eliminating the perimeter rule would decrease the likelihood of AA serving those destinations, because the number of slots is a fixed commodity. It's not going to change. If AA could offer more transcon flights, they would - but the slots have to come from somewhere.

Could United use their slots for high value flights to LAX, DEN, and SFO? Sure - but eliminating the rule would also devalue their hub at IAD, which is why United is opposed to the change.

American would obviously have the most to gain since they hold the most slots, but the consequences would likely be a) MWAA using the escape clause in the lease to increase DCA's costs and divert more money to IAD (because MWAA's mandate from the Feds is to operate the two airports as a system), and b) AA getting a lot of political flak from various Senators representing small markets that would lose their flights, since DCA's slots aren't going away.

The larger point remains: MWAA doesn't want the perimeter rule to go away. And they've aligned their major tenant airlines (particularly UA and AA) behind this as well as the key members of Congress.

Exactly. There is little impetus for change amongst all DCA stakeholders-the Feds, the DC government, VA government, airlines, and area residents.

I also have noticed that for the most part, DC residents (along with those in Arlington/Alexandria) have accepted the fact that if one wants to get on a beyond-perimeter nonstop, they likely have to go out to Dulles or up to BWI. This contrasts with friends who live in NYC and complain about having to go to EWR or JFK to access a nonstop flight.

AA doesn't "need" to add flights from DCA to every single possible city in the perimeter to remain relevant to its FF base in the region. Their coverage from DCA/IAD/BWI serves virtually every single relevant market on the East Coast nonstop, plus a good number of destinations in the Central/Midwestern portion of the country, in addition to LAS/PHX/LAX. A DCA-IAH flight would be in direct competition to UA/WN, both of which have hubs on the other end and are arguable much stronger on the WAS-ZHU market. A twice daily E75 service (what AA would use on a theoretical service most likely) would not be able to compete against UA/WN's service. I think UA had seven or eight flights a day pre-pandemic on DCA-IAH. No way would AA want to compete against that.

DL serves DCA-LEX/MSN/OMA nonstop, and I believe such flights are tied to specific slots so DL just can't drop said cities. Given that DL just can't drop service to any of those cities, AA would have more to lose if they started DCA-MSN tomorrow, for example.

I'm confused why UA would fly LAX-DCA. UA has multiple daily flights on IAD-LAX (with scheduled wide-body service), in addition to the long-standing daily flight on BWI-LAX, which is the only UA transcon service outside of JFK/BOS/MCO from LAX.

I don't have any solid data, but my anecdotal evidence would say that the WAS area probably has a larger proportion of "free agent " frequent-flyers relative to other metro areas due to the dichotomy of AA-DCA and UA-IAD. I know several people who would probably qualify for Elite status on AA or UA, but don't, as there domestic travel is on AA ex DCA and their international on UA (or a different carrier) ex IAD, but they don't have enough spending on either carrier to qualify for status. This contrasts with NYC where DL and UA flyers can pick one program and still access a range of domestic and international destinations nonstop, same with ORD with AA and UA. That's why the UA/US alliance was so good for WAS area flyers-I know several people who would qualify for US's Preferred Program just by flying UA internationally ex IAD.
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blockski
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Tue May 18, 2021 3:15 pm

USAirALB wrote:
Exactly. There is little impetus for change amongst all DCA stakeholders-the Feds, the DC government, VA government, airlines, and area residents.

I also have noticed that for the most part, DC residents (along with those in Arlington/Alexandria) have accepted the fact that if one wants to get on a beyond-perimeter nonstop, they likely have to go out to Dulles or up to BWI. This contrasts with friends who live in NYC and complain about having to go to EWR or JFK to access a nonstop flight.


Yes - and a big reason for the difference is that the beyond-perimeter flights do exist! You don't have to schlep out to IAD or BWI.

There are 20 daily round-trips (pre-COVID) beyond the perimeter. That's a lot!

DL serves DCA-LEX/MSN/OMA nonstop, and I believe such flights are tied to specific slots so DL just can't drop said cities. Given that DL just can't drop service to any of those cities, AA would have more to lose if they started DCA-MSN tomorrow, for example.


Yes, those smaller cities are also slot exemptions and are tied to the specific destination.

It's worth remembering that, because those specific within-perimeter slot exemptions were part of the various Congressional deal-making to add the beyond-perimeter exemptions. Sen. McCain was a big proponent to help out America West - so you do a little log-rolling to get support from Senators in Wisconsin, Nebraska, and Kentucky on board with a plan that clearly benefits you and your home state airline.
 
USAirALB
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Tue May 18, 2021 3:59 pm

blockski wrote:
Yes - and a big reason for the difference is that the beyond-perimeter flights do exist! You don't have to schlep out to IAD or BWI.

There are 20 daily round-trips (pre-COVID) beyond the perimeter. That's a lot!

I can really only speak for myself personally, but I still find myself going out to Dulles to catch a beyond-perimeter nonstop maybe 50-60% percent of the time, not just because of the cost of the flights, but rather the timing.

Take DCA-SFO. Pre-COVID, UA and AS served the route once daily. Now AS has temporarily suspended the route but it looks like it is due to return in late-Summer. Upon examining the schedules, both the AS and UA departures are in the early evening, with no morning flight available. At Dulles, UA offers its multiple hub-hub flights daily, and AS has both an AM and PM departure. At BWI, UA also has an AM and PM departure to SFO. Granted, I know that airlines are limited in frequencies at DCA and a PM departure probably makes the most business-sense on the specific route.
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blockski
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Tue May 18, 2021 4:09 pm

USAirALB wrote:
blockski wrote:
Yes - and a big reason for the difference is that the beyond-perimeter flights do exist! You don't have to schlep out to IAD or BWI.

There are 20 daily round-trips (pre-COVID) beyond the perimeter. That's a lot!

I can really only speak for myself personally, but I still find myself going out to Dulles to catch a beyond-perimeter nonstop maybe 50-60% percent of the time, not just because of the cost of the flights, but rather the timing.

Take DCA-SFO. Pre-COVID, UA and AS served the route once daily. Now AS has temporarily suspended the route but it looks like it is due to return in late-Summer. Upon examining the schedules, both the AS and UA departures are in the early evening, with no morning flight available. At Dulles, UA offers its multiple hub-hub flights daily, and AS has both an AM and PM departure. At BWI, UA also has an AM and PM departure to SFO. Granted, I know that airlines are limited in frequencies at DCA and a PM departure probably makes the most business-sense on the specific route.


Yeah, that would describe me, as well.

I'm just saying: if you're going to IAD or BWI 60% of the time, that means you're looking at DCA 40% of the time.

As opposed to the folks complaining about LGA, where the flights are available basically 0% of the time. They literally have no choice.

Congress has added beyond-perimeter exemptions at DCA in 2000, 2003, and 2012. There's a huge difference in the political will to change the perimeter rule when there are zero flights vs. 20 daily flights. Now that the itch has been scratched, there's far less momentum to scratch it again.

At the same time, the hand of MWAA (wanting to preserve the rule) has been strengthened, because they've been able to show the deleterious effects on IAD and how Congress's mandates have contradictory effects.
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Wed May 26, 2021 9:41 pm

Its a wacky day at DCA. They were using Rwy 22 for departures - I've not seen that in a long, long time. Wind was 230 @ 8 and there was a significant cell due south of the field.
 
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Thu May 27, 2021 4:25 am

DCA and BWI saw significant diversions owing to two major lines of thunderstorms - some of which left golfball-sized hail in Prince William County (about 10 miles SW of IAD).

DCA diversions include at least 3 to IAD, at least 2 to RIC, at least 1 to PHF, at least 4 to ORF, and at least 1 to RDU.
 
doulasc
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Mon May 31, 2021 6:19 pm

will Jetblue ever reconsider IAD again,
 
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Mon May 31, 2021 6:36 pm

doulasc wrote:
will Jetblue ever reconsider IAD again,


I mean, never say never in this industry, but for now at least, what would be the point? After the significant partnership deal they've worked out with AA, they're better off building operations at airports where they can realize synergies from that. IAD doesn't fit that bill. Also, planes they would use for IAD service are planes that aren't being used on more competitive routes out of BOS, JFK, FLL, or even EWR, among others.

Could they some day restart token service? Maybe. But they won't attempt another East Coast mini-hub/focus city like they tried in the past.
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BWIAirport
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:30 pm

UA resumes LAX-BWI today on A320s (was 737s before). The inbound arrives a little after 7am, and the return departs at 6:30am. So different aircraft used for each leg.
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:12 pm

BWIAirport wrote:
UA resumes LAX-BWI today on A320s (was 737s before). The inbound arrives a little after 7am, and the return departs at 6:30am. So different aircraft used for each leg.


Pre COVID Alaska and Delta also flew this route or just Alaska?
 
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:43 pm

DCA350 wrote:
BWIAirport wrote:
UA resumes LAX-BWI today on A320s (was 737s before). The inbound arrives a little after 7am, and the return departs at 6:30am. So different aircraft used for each leg.


Pre COVID Alaska and Delta also flew this route or just Alaska?

At its peak, BWI-LAX saw Southwest, United, Alaska, and Spirit. Alaska cut the route pre-pandemic I believe; the other three airlines that were flying the route in early March 2020 have now resumed.
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:53 pm

I’m surprised that UA is still on the route given that they have cut most LAX-East Coast non-hub transcons over the years. PHL was dropped and BOS is down to one or two flights a day.
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Sat Jun 05, 2021 2:03 am

USAirALB wrote:
I’m surprised that UA is still on the route given that they have cut most LAX-East Coast non-hub transcons over the years. PHL was dropped and BOS is down to one or two flights a day.

Wouldn’t surprise me if it was to support the UA loyalists on the MD side of the District.
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:57 pm

IAD is getting an Air Senegal tag to/from JFK to serve Dakar. https://www.mwaa.com/about/air-senegal- ... al-airport

Nice seeing a new carrier, wish it was nonstop.
 
capitalflyer
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:00 pm

In other IAD-Africa news, UA is adding a 6x/week flight to ACC on 787.

https://www.mwaa.com/about/dulles-inter ... ccra-ghana

Good news for DC's huge African diaspora with both Dakar and Senegal options. Another option perhaps as well for those going to ADD rather than going through DUB for a tech stop.
 
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:44 pm

capitalflyer wrote:
In other IAD-Africa news, UA is adding a 6x/week flight to ACC on 787.

https://www.mwaa.com/about/dulles-inter ... ccra-ghana

Good news for DC's huge African diaspora with both Dakar and Senegal options. Another option perhaps as well for those going to ADD rather than going through DUB for a tech stop.

The flight was announced a couple of months back in September , but what’s odd is that UA announced IAD-LOS at the same time but looks like they dropped their plans to fly the route.
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:55 pm

BWIAirport wrote:
UA resumes LAX-BWI today on A320s (was 737s before). The inbound arrives a little after 7am, and the return departs at 6:30am. So different aircraft used for each leg.

I had completely forgotten UA ever flew LAX-BWI.
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:27 am

Anybody catch the Il-76 that left IAD yesterday for Prestwick?
 
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:09 am

USAirALB wrote:
capitalflyer wrote:
In other IAD-Africa news, UA is adding a 6x/week flight to ACC on 787.

https://www.mwaa.com/about/dulles-inter ... ccra-ghana

Good news for DC's huge African diaspora with both Dakar and Senegal options. Another option perhaps as well for those going to ADD rather than going through DUB for a tech stop.

The flight was announced a couple of months back in September , but what’s odd is that UA announced IAD-LOS at the same time but looks like they dropped their plans to fly the route.

Still waiting on government approvals for LOS?
 
blockski
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:34 pm

Update from the WMATA Board Meeting - the issues with the Silver Line Phase 2 seem to be on track to resolution, and service is set to start in February or March of 2022:

https://twitter.com/justingeorge/status ... 2339535873

Additionally, WMATA is looking at some substantial fare changes today which could make the long ride out to Dulles more attractive, including a flat weekend fare. The Board is also moving towards a de-emphasis on rush hour commuting and instead focusing on all-day frequent service, which is a real positive - offering frequent service longer into the evening and during mid-day:

https://www.wmata.com/about/board/meeti ... d-0608.pdf
 
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:50 pm

A poster in a Maryland Aviation Facebook group posted a potential rumor of new UA widebody service to BWI. The exact text of his post was:
"Anyone hear any squabbling of new United wide body service from BWI? Rumors in the GSE world that a new loader(s) and dollys and other equipment bring brought in."
Personally, given IAD's proximity, I'd be shocked if there's any UA widebody aircraft that operates regularly-scheduled service to BWI. I think the largest UA aircraft to serve BWI recently was a 753 service to ORD a couple years ago. Another poster commented they could sub out a B39M DEN rotation with a 763 or 788. To me, this would only be realistic if they were anticipating drastic summer long-haul cuts and had a lot of spare domestic capacity. It seems more likely to me that they're bringing in new equipment to replace old, or trying to be better equipped to handle widebody diversions. Or perhaps the poster misheard and it's actually for United Parcel Service, who frequently sends 763s and A300s.
What does this most sound like?
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:28 pm

BWIAirport wrote:
A poster in a Maryland Aviation Facebook group posted a potential rumor of new UA widebody service to BWI. The exact text of his post was:
"Anyone hear any squabbling of new United wide body service from BWI? Rumors in the GSE world that a new loader(s) and dollys and other equipment bring brought in."
Personally, given IAD's proximity, I'd be shocked if there's any UA widebody aircraft that operates regularly-scheduled service to BWI. I think the largest UA aircraft to serve BWI recently was a 753 service to ORD a couple years ago. Another poster commented they could sub out a B39M DEN rotation with a 763 or 788. To me, this would only be realistic if they were anticipating drastic summer long-haul cuts and had a lot of spare domestic capacity. It seems more likely to me that they're bringing in new equipment to replace old, or trying to be better equipped to handle widebody diversions. Or perhaps the poster misheard and it's actually for United Parcel Service, who frequently sends 763s and A300s.
What does this most sound like?


I’m going to guess it’s for their military charters out of BWI
 
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:30 pm

EFA2014 wrote:
BWIAirport wrote:
A poster in a Maryland Aviation Facebook group posted a potential rumor of new UA widebody service to BWI. The exact text of his post was:
"Anyone hear any squabbling of new United wide body service from BWI? Rumors in the GSE world that a new loader(s) and dollys and other equipment bring brought in."
Personally, given IAD's proximity, I'd be shocked if there's any UA widebody aircraft that operates regularly-scheduled service to BWI. I think the largest UA aircraft to serve BWI recently was a 753 service to ORD a couple years ago. Another poster commented they could sub out a B39M DEN rotation with a 763 or 788. To me, this would only be realistic if they were anticipating drastic summer long-haul cuts and had a lot of spare domestic capacity. It seems more likely to me that they're bringing in new equipment to replace old, or trying to be better equipped to handle widebody diversions. Or perhaps the poster misheard and it's actually for United Parcel Service, who frequently sends 763s and A300s.
What does this most sound like?


I’m going to guess it’s for their military charters out of BWI

Those are mostly on Atlas Air right? I don't know if I've seen a lot of UA military charters recently
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:26 pm

Anyone have any insight as to why UA basically took over the Z Concourse at IAD, in addition to using the B Concourse for departures as well? It looks like their evening LHR service almost always departs from B44, as does the ZRH flight sometimes. Both flights always arrive into C/D. FWIW, I saw an A319 flight departing from B44 the other day as well.
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:34 am

BWIAirport wrote:
EFA2014 wrote:
BWIAirport wrote:
A poster in a Maryland Aviation Facebook group posted a potential rumor of new UA widebody service to BWI. The exact text of his post was:
"Anyone hear any squabbling of new United wide body service from BWI? Rumors in the GSE world that a new loader(s) and dollys and other equipment bring brought in."
Personally, given IAD's proximity, I'd be shocked if there's any UA widebody aircraft that operates regularly-scheduled service to BWI. I think the largest UA aircraft to serve BWI recently was a 753 service to ORD a couple years ago. Another poster commented they could sub out a B39M DEN rotation with a 763 or 788. To me, this would only be realistic if they were anticipating drastic summer long-haul cuts and had a lot of spare domestic capacity. It seems more likely to me that they're bringing in new equipment to replace old, or trying to be better equipped to handle widebody diversions. Or perhaps the poster misheard and it's actually for United Parcel Service, who frequently sends 763s and A300s.
What does this most sound like?


I’m going to guess it’s for their military charters out of BWI

Those are mostly on Atlas Air right? I don't know if I've seen a lot of UA military charters recently


As recently as a couple years ago I recall seeing United 744s (with a modified livery) handling some of the military charters.

I can't imagine this is a return to the early 2000s when United flew DC10s and 763s into BWI for routes like BWI-ORD. (Back then Delta was also operating 763s on BWI-ATL.)
 
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:23 am

Fun two minute time lapse video of the new concourse construction here:

https://twitter.com/reagan_airport/stat ... 31270?s=21
 
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:39 pm

EFA2014 wrote:
BWIAirport wrote:
A poster in a Maryland Aviation Facebook group posted a potential rumor of new UA widebody service to BWI. The exact text of his post was:
"Anyone hear any squabbling of new United wide body service from BWI? Rumors in the GSE world that a new loader(s) and dollys and other equipment bring brought in."
Personally, given IAD's proximity, I'd be shocked if there's any UA widebody aircraft that operates regularly-scheduled service to BWI. I think the largest UA aircraft to serve BWI recently was a 753 service to ORD a couple years ago. Another poster commented they could sub out a B39M DEN rotation with a 763 or 788. To me, this would only be realistic if they were anticipating drastic summer long-haul cuts and had a lot of spare domestic capacity. It seems more likely to me that they're bringing in new equipment to replace old, or trying to be better equipped to handle widebody diversions. Or perhaps the poster misheard and it's actually for United Parcel Service, who frequently sends 763s and A300s.
What does this most sound like?


I’m going to guess it’s for their military charters out of BWI

Agreed. UA frequently runs military charters from BWI. It wouldn't be for diversions — I've never once seen BWI listed as a diversion for UA narrowbodies or widebodies. EWR arrivals on the PHLBO almost always file IAD as their alternate, IAD arrivals almost always file RIC/ORF/RDU. I can't see UA adding scheduled widebody service at the detriment of IAD. So, enhancing logistics for military charters is the only thing that makes sense to me.
 
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:13 am

USAirALB wrote:
Anyone have any insight as to why UA basically took over the Z Concourse at IAD, in addition to using the B Concourse for departures as well? It looks like their evening LHR service almost always departs from B44, as does the ZRH flight sometimes. Both flights always arrive into C/D. FWIW, I saw an A319 flight departing from B44 the other day as well.


They simply need the gates as the 6pm bank doesn't have enough. Frontier left Z for B and AC left with their suspension of service although now they are back and put a CR9 overnight on Z. As for the B since VS has not returned and BA doesn't have their earlier flight yet they are using those gates. They tow over a empty plane for the European departure. The narrow bodies are turns with pax deplaning into B. In september when UA returns to 4 banks maybe this will clear up.
 
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:00 pm

EFA2014 wrote:
BWIAirport wrote:
A poster in a Maryland Aviation Facebook group posted a potential rumor of new UA widebody service to BWI. The exact text of his post was:
"Anyone hear any squabbling of new United wide body service from BWI? Rumors in the GSE world that a new loader(s) and dollys and other equipment bring brought in."
Personally, given IAD's proximity, I'd be shocked if there's any UA widebody aircraft that operates regularly-scheduled service to BWI. I think the largest UA aircraft to serve BWI recently was a 753 service to ORD a couple years ago. Another poster commented they could sub out a B39M DEN rotation with a 763 or 788. To me, this would only be realistic if they were anticipating drastic summer long-haul cuts and had a lot of spare domestic capacity. It seems more likely to me that they're bringing in new equipment to replace old, or trying to be better equipped to handle widebody diversions. Or perhaps the poster misheard and it's actually for United Parcel Service, who frequently sends 763s and A300s.
What does this most sound like?


I’m going to guess it’s for their military charters out of BWI


As others have stated, I don't think it's as frequent as several years ago, but there may still be some UA military charters. Another potential use for this equipment is for UA sports charters. The Ravens have flown Atlas the past two seasons, but UA usually charters around 12 teams including a couple of AFC opponents
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:21 pm

As the EU reopens to Americans - do we think LO and IB will actually start service to IAD in the next couple of years? I am secretly hoping for a surprise announcement for this summer, but I'm realistic.
 
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:55 pm

Obviously a lot can change between now and then, but BA has tentatively re-added A380 service to their IAD schedule. Service is scheduled to resume on 12 November on their late evening departure.
graham697 wrote:
As the EU reopens to Americans - do we think LO and IB will actually start service to IAD in the next couple of years? I am secretly hoping for a surprise announcement for this summer, but I'm realistic.

I would say both are fairly likely, with LO probably being more likely to start service than IB. I don't, however, see LX announced a relaunch as they had planned to, given their plans to dramatically reduce the size of their fleet.

Not COVID related, but wasn't BR supposed to launch IAD-TPE a couple of years back and never did? With CX gone for the foreseeable future they would be a great option for travel to Southeast Asia.
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:56 pm

USAirALB wrote:
Obviously a lot can change between now and then, but BA has tentatively re-added A380 service to their IAD schedule. Service is scheduled to resume on 12 November on their late evening departure.
graham697 wrote:
As the EU reopens to Americans - do we think LO and IB will actually start service to IAD in the next couple of years? I am secretly hoping for a surprise announcement for this summer, but I'm realistic.

I would say both are fairly likely, with LO probably being more likely to start service than IB. I don't, however, see LX announced a relaunch as they had planned to, given their plans to dramatically reduce the size of their fleet.

Not COVID related, but wasn't BR supposed to launch IAD-TPE a couple of years back and never did? With CX gone for the foreseeable future they would be a great option for travel to Southeast Asia.


Yeah, LX isn't even listed on their 'returning airlines' page. Sad to see that option potentially go by the wayside. I concur that I think LO will join, but as a AAdvantage member I'd really love for IB to join the roster. Fuel surcharges on BA pretty much make them useless.
 
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:13 pm

DL895 today ATL-BWI is being operated by a 763, N178DZ. This is typically a 739. First domestic scheduled widebody in who knows how long. It looks like it'll be using gate D29.
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:54 pm

BWIAirport wrote:
DL895 today ATL-BWI is being operated by a 763, N178DZ. This is typically a 739. First domestic scheduled widebody in who knows how long. It looks like it'll be using gate D29.


This is also the first DL 763 with PS seats installed.
 
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:06 pm

graham697 wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
Obviously a lot can change between now and then, but BA has tentatively re-added A380 service to their IAD schedule. Service is scheduled to resume on 12 November on their late evening departure.
graham697 wrote:
As the EU reopens to Americans - do we think LO and IB will actually start service to IAD in the next couple of years? I am secretly hoping for a surprise announcement for this summer, but I'm realistic.

I would say both are fairly likely, with LO probably being more likely to start service than IB. I don't, however, see LX announced a relaunch as they had planned to, given their plans to dramatically reduce the size of their fleet.

Not COVID related, but wasn't BR supposed to launch IAD-TPE a couple of years back and never did? With CX gone for the foreseeable future they would be a great option for travel to Southeast Asia.


Yeah, LX isn't even listed on their 'returning airlines' page. Sad to see that option potentially go by the wayside. I concur that I think LO will join, but as a AAdvantage member I'd really love for IB to join the roster. Fuel surcharges on BA pretty much make them useless.

That site isn't that accurate. For example, it says CA is to resume IAD service on 31 October despite no CA flights scheduled into IAD for the foreseeable future. Ditto for SU.
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:15 pm

New service for IAD

https://www.mwaa.com/about/allegiant-ai ... 1624986565

2x weekly to JAX and SRQ. Dipping their toes into the IAD water. I don't think these flights will replace BWI but compliment them to try to get NOVA travelers. Are they destined for the Z gates? at less than daily I would think so. By then, UA probably will have another bank added back so they won't need the Z gates as overflow as much.

Or perhaps Allegiant could become the anchor tenant for new C/D concourse! :duck:
 
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 29, 2021 11:43 pm

WILL DL ever fly the 757 back to DCA-ATL?
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 29, 2021 11:45 pm

BWIAirport wrote:
DL895 today ATL-BWI is being operated by a 763, N178DZ. This is typically a 739. First domestic scheduled widebody in who knows how long. It looks like it'll be using gate D29.


DL has used that aircraft before on that route 767 BWI - ATL I have flown on it.. It :D is not unusual...
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:45 pm

Video was just posted of a flight from Syracuse to DCA, it’s a recent video as he/she arrived at the new concourse.

https://youtu.be/GrRqIhUGjio

Near the end there was a shot of a van that said “Express Catering”. The font and coloring of the sign makes it look like a former US Airways Express van.

So here is my question.... with this van still wearing the former logos, how many other items at DCA and other old US Airways hubs will have the old logos?
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winstonavgeek
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:59 am

Found this document showcasing the preliminary workings of a plan to tear down the Concourse A regional gates and develop a portion of the new concourse (Tier II), where the current Aerotrain station is. Based on the current drawings, it looks like it can handle several widebodies or fourteen narrowbody aircraft, in addition to two hardstands. The document gives a proposed timeline of the start of construction in October 2023 and completion in 2025. Thoughts?

Link to Document: https://public.deq.virginia.gov/OEIR/FA ... mpiled.pdf
 
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:38 pm

winstonavgeek wrote:
Found this document showcasing the preliminary workings of a plan to tear down the Concourse A regional gates and develop a portion of the new concourse (Tier II), where the current Aerotrain station is. Based on the current drawings, it looks like it can handle several widebodies or fourteen narrowbody aircraft, in addition to two hardstands. The document gives a proposed timeline of the start of construction in October 2023 and completion in 2025. Thoughts?

Link to Document: https://public.deq.virginia.gov/OEIR/FA ... mpiled.pdf


Interesting, how does this work with a proposal to build a replacement concourse for C/D.
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cooley21
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:40 pm

Great find. I wonder if this is the first domino towards the ultimiate building of the permanent C/D gates.
 
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:07 pm

Say what now!

The document is somewhat confusing IMO as it doesn't give mention to Tier II or a future buildout of the concourse. Furthermore, there are several points in the document that this expansion is being driven by UA, with the document stating The existing connection between the Concourse A regional aircraft gates and Concourse C/D requires bussing or difficult pedestrian movements with numerous level changes, resulting in a poor level of service for passengers. I can't imagine MWAA would care how UA connecting pax move throughout the airport. I'm not really sure how this project improves passenger flow as one will still have to use the "temporary" underground walkway if connecting to the new gates...I guess it just cuts out the need for a ride on the APM for UA connecting pax.

The document says the new facility will have 14 narrow body gates. I believe the Tier II C/D replacement pier called for 44 gates in total IIRC.

I guess I am confused on where this leaves the future of C/D, especially considering UA is still moving forward with the Polaris lounge.
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:42 pm

USAirALB wrote:
Say what now!

The document is somewhat confusing IMO as it doesn't give mention to Tier II or a future buildout of the concourse. Furthermore, there are several points in the document that this expansion is being driven by UA, with the document stating The existing connection between the Concourse A regional aircraft gates and Concourse C/D requires bussing or difficult pedestrian movements with numerous level changes, resulting in a poor level of service for passengers. I can't imagine MWAA would care how UA connecting pax move throughout the airport. I'm not really sure how this project improves passenger flow as one will still have to use the "temporary" underground walkway if connecting to the new gates...I guess it just cuts out the need for a ride on the APM for UA connecting pax.

The document says the new facility will have 14 narrow body gates. I believe the Tier II C/D replacement pier called for 44 gates in total IIRC.

I guess I am confused on where this leaves the future of C/D, especially considering UA is still moving forward with the Polaris lounge.


IMO, what this means is that United sees that Concourse A's regional gates would see low utilization, due to the retirement of most of its CRJ200/E145 fleet. Also, with United's upgauging scheme with United Next, United probably needs more narrowbody gates to facilitate its operation during its banks. During the COVID-19 pandemic, United utilized two of the widebody gates in Concourse A/B for the 5/6 P.M. bank (though they might not need them anymore when they start adding more banks back). Even pre-pandemic, United started using the Z gates for a small portion of its regional operation. As for Tier II, United is probably pushing it back until 2030+ based on this and it looks like it's perfectly content with the C/D Concourse. Chances are, United doesn't want to risk pushing the CPE too high, with a full buildout of Tier II, especially since the Concourse C/D facilities are somewhat "usable." Sounds like they are kind of kicking the can down the road, but I guess this is a step in the right direction nonetheless.
 
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:43 pm

Going to the DC area for the first time ever. Flying in/out of BWI. Anything of note I should check out at the airport while I am there?
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capitalflyer
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Re: Washington, D.C. Airports (BWI, DCA, IAD) Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:03 pm

winstonavgeek wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
Say what now!

The document is somewhat confusing IMO as it doesn't give mention to Tier II or a future buildout of the concourse. Furthermore, there are several points in the document that this expansion is being driven by UA, with the document stating The existing connection between the Concourse A regional aircraft gates and Concourse C/D requires bussing or difficult pedestrian movements with numerous level changes, resulting in a poor level of service for passengers. I can't imagine MWAA would care how UA connecting pax move throughout the airport. I'm not really sure how this project improves passenger flow as one will still have to use the "temporary" underground walkway if connecting to the new gates...I guess it just cuts out the need for a ride on the APM for UA connecting pax.

The document says the new facility will have 14 narrow body gates. I believe the Tier II C/D replacement pier called for 44 gates in total IIRC.

I guess I am confused on where this leaves the future of C/D, especially considering UA is still moving forward with the Polaris lounge.


IMO, what this means is that United sees that Concourse A's regional gates would see low utilization, due to the retirement of most of its CRJ200/E145 fleet. Also, with United's upgauging scheme with United Next, United probably needs more narrowbody gates to facilitate its operation during its banks. During the COVID-19 pandemic, United utilized two of the widebody gates in Concourse A/B for the 5/6 P.M. bank (though they might not need them anymore when they start adding more banks back). Even pre-pandemic, United started using the Z gates for a small portion of its regional operation. As for Tier II, United is probably pushing it back until 2030+ based on this and it looks like it's perfectly content with the C/D Concourse. Chances are, United doesn't want to risk pushing the CPE too high, with a full buildout of Tier II, especially since the Concourse C/D facilities are somewhat "usable." Sounds like they are kind of kicking the can down the road, but I guess this is a step in the right direction nonetheless.


Amazing. Great news. The trek between A and C/D never made any sense. This is a logical first step made possible by elimination of 50 seat fleet. This is definitely step one towards new C/D concourse. Instead of 2050 perhaps we will see a new concourse by 2040!!

The proposed concourse footprint is interesting. You would think a simple rectangle would be enough. But it is all artsy curvy. Even though it is sold in the document as a regional concourse, this curve enables its near term use by widebodies given the schematic. Narrowbodies would fit no problem between Echo and the concourse. But looks like widebodies would have tail encroaching the taxiway. Perhaps better to think of it for now as a spill over concourse rather than a true regional concourse, even if that is what it is primarily used for.

Or maybe this is the new concourse for Allegiant!
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