My bad. Noticed it was A2 instead of B1. I believe A2 is common use.

ATLgaUSA wrote:

My bad. Noticed it was A2 instead of B1. I believe A2 is common use.

It is indeed common use these days, but UA seems to be the one using it at the moment. They usually have 2 morning departures to IAH, and one of them parks at A2, while the other IAH, ORD, and DEN morning departures utilize the 3 even C gates. Definitely somewhat far from their other gates, but that’s what seems to be available.

gdavis003 wrote:

ATLgaUSA wrote:

My bad. Noticed it was A2 instead of B1. I believe A2 is common use.

It is indeed common use these days, but UA seems to be the one using it at the moment. They usually have 2 morning departures to IAH, and one of them parks at A2, while the other IAH, ORD, and DEN morning departures utilize the 3 even C gates. Definitely somewhat far from their other gates, but that’s what seems to be available.

It seems like there should be room for more gates at the end of C than are installed. Guess no reason to buy jetways just to accommodate RONs.

ATLgaUSA wrote:

gdavis003 wrote:

ATLgaUSA wrote:

My bad. Noticed it was A2 instead of B1. I believe A2 is common use.

It is indeed common use these days, but UA seems to be the one using it at the moment. They usually have 2 morning departures to IAH, and one of them parks at A2, while the other IAH, ORD, and DEN morning departures utilize the 3 even C gates. Definitely somewhat far from their other gates, but that’s what seems to be available.

It seems like there should be room for more gates at the end of C than are installed. Guess no reason to buy jetways just to accommodate RONs.

I believe that they have paint markings for C7-9 and C11 at the end of the terminal. I know that WN usually parks one RON at C7 and moves it to C1, C3 or C5 once an early departure leaves when they have more than 3 RONs. I don’t see why UA couldn’t use C8 to do the same. I think there’s also a door from the terminal with stairs that leads out onto the tarmac where C8 is. I know the Airport Authority has had issues with ground boarding in the past, but I definitely feel like UA could add a small C8 gate counter by the door and utilize ground boarding there, if the authorities allowed it.

gdavis003 wrote:

ATLgaUSA wrote:

It seems like there should be room for more gates at the end of C than are installed. Guess no reason to buy jetways just to accommodate RONs.

I believe that they have paint markings for C7-9 and C11 at the end of the terminal. I know that WN usually parks one RON at C7 and moves it to C1, C3 or C5 once an early departure leaves when they have more than 3 RONs. I don’t see why UA couldn’t use C8 to do the same. I think there’s also a door from the terminal with stairs that leads out onto the tarmac where C8 is. I know the Airport Authority has had issues with ground boarding in the past, but I definitely feel like UA could add a small C8 gate counter by the door and utilize ground boarding there, if the authorities allowed it.

Yes, there are lines marked for C7-9 and C11. It's pretty much the same configuration as A4 and A6-8. It might be a little tight on the interior of the concourse, but would be ripe for additional expansion if ever needed.

Scoots71 wrote:

gdavis003 wrote:

ATLgaUSA wrote:

It seems like there should be room for more gates at the end of C than are installed. Guess no reason to buy jetways just to accommodate RONs.

I believe that they have paint markings for C7-9 and C11 at the end of the terminal. I know that WN usually parks one RON at C7 and moves it to C1, C3 or C5 once an early departure leaves when they have more than 3 RONs. I don’t see why UA couldn’t use C8 to do the same. I think there’s also a door from the terminal with stairs that leads out onto the tarmac where C8 is. I know the Airport Authority has had issues with ground boarding in the past, but I definitely feel like UA could add a small C8 gate counter by the door and utilize ground boarding there, if the authorities allowed it.

Yes, there are lines marked for C7-9 and C11. It's pretty much the same configuration as A4 and A6-8. It might be a little tight on the interior of the concourse, but would be ripe for additional expansion if ever needed.

It's odd that they didn't go ahead an install jetways for C7-9 and C11 when they rebuilt the airport, especially since SW was regularly overnighting 4 planes prior to COVID.

ATLgaUSA wrote:

Scoots71 wrote:

gdavis003 wrote:

I believe that they have paint markings for C7-9 and C11 at the end of the terminal. I know that WN usually parks one RON at C7 and moves it to C1, C3 or C5 once an early departure leaves when they have more than 3 RONs. I don’t see why UA couldn’t use C8 to do the same. I think there’s also a door from the terminal with stairs that leads out onto the tarmac where C8 is. I know the Airport Authority has had issues with ground boarding in the past, but I definitely feel like UA could add a small C8 gate counter by the door and utilize ground boarding there, if the authorities allowed it.

Yes, there are lines marked for C7-9 and C11. It's pretty much the same configuration as A4 and A6-8. It might be a little tight on the interior of the concourse, but would be ripe for additional expansion if ever needed.

It's odd that they didn't go ahead an install jetways for C7-9 and C11 when they rebuilt the airport, especially since SW was regularly overnighting 4 planes prior to COVID.

The new C concourse opened in 2013 right when WN cut a bunch of flights from 2011-2013, including cutting ONT, BNA, PHX, JAX, SDF and MSY. That likely greatly contributed to not installing the jetways although leaving the parking lines.


On a separate note, hopefully the BHM leadership is focused on growing airlines and destinations again after COVID, especially after dropping the ball on the Breeze launch, and the latest Allegiant adds...

Scoots71 wrote:

ATLgaUSA wrote:

Scoots71 wrote:

Yes, there are lines marked for C7-9 and C11. It's pretty much the same configuration as A4 and A6-8. It might be a little tight on the interior of the concourse, but would be ripe for additional expansion if ever needed.

It's odd that they didn't go ahead an install jetways for C7-9 and C11 when they rebuilt the airport, especially since SW was regularly overnighting 4 planes prior to COVID.

The new C concourse opened in 2013 right when WN cut a bunch of flights from 2011-2013, including cutting ONT, BNA, PHX, JAX, SDF and MSY. That likely greatly contributed to not installing the jetways although leaving the parking lines.


On a separate note, hopefully the BHM leadership is focused on growing airlines and destinations again after COVID, especially after dropping the ball on the Breeze launch, and the latest Allegiant adds...

Also missed the ball on the pretty significant expansion Spirit has made recently.

ATLgaUSA wrote:

Scoots71 wrote:

ATLgaUSA wrote:

It's odd that they didn't go ahead an install jetways for C7-9 and C11 when they rebuilt the airport, especially since SW was regularly overnighting 4 planes prior to COVID.

The new C concourse opened in 2013 right when WN cut a bunch of flights from 2011-2013, including cutting ONT, BNA, PHX, JAX, SDF and MSY. That likely greatly contributed to not installing the jetways although leaving the parking lines.


On a separate note, hopefully the BHM leadership is focused on growing airlines and destinations again after COVID, especially after dropping the ball on the Breeze launch, and the latest Allegiant adds...

Also missed the ball on the pretty significant expansion Spirit has made recently.

This is all infuriating. I get that they were trying to make sure that the existing airlines returned to all of their routes pre-COVID, but this is also the prime time to take advantage of all of the rebound growth in the industry.

Interesting article in the Birmingham Business Journal about BHM.

https://www.bizjournals.com/birmingham/ ... s-are.html

The fact that they think CMH and IND are the two markets that need nonstop service solidifies to me that they aren’t even seriously recruiting new airlines or flights. There are many markets with higher PDEW numbers that we don’t have nonstop flights to.

ATLgaUSA wrote:

The fact that they think CMH and IND are the two markets that need nonstop service solidifies to me that they aren’t even seriously recruiting new airlines or flights. There are many markets with higher PDEW numbers that we don’t have nonstop flights to.

I agree! The PDEW is close to nonexistent on those. They mentioned business traffic, I get that angle but what airline would do it nonstop? There’s no one. Southwest can’t fill a 737 on it and a Breeze type flight likely wouldn’t provide a business traveler friendly schedule. Trying to go after Indy and Columbus is a waste of time imo unless there’s businesses willing to pony up big money to the airlines to essentially revenue guarantee the flight.

FLYKTPA wrote:

ATLgaUSA wrote:

The fact that they think CMH and IND are the two markets that need nonstop service solidifies to me that they aren’t even seriously recruiting new airlines or flights. There are many markets with higher PDEW numbers that we don’t have nonstop flights to.

I agree! The PDEW is close to nonexistent on those. They mentioned business traffic, I get that angle but what airline would do it nonstop? There’s no one. Southwest can’t fill a 737 on it and a Breeze type flight likely wouldn’t provide a business traveler friendly schedule. Trying to go after Indy and Columbus is a waste of time imo unless there’s businesses willing to pony up big money to the airlines to essentially revenue guarantee the flight.

While I agree that IND or CMH are unlikely to see nonstop service from BHM (at least on US3 carriers or LCC's), WN re-adding BHM-STL nonstop service might be a possibility with the connecting opportunities that are there to other destinations in the Midwest and West through STL on WN. WN also has a much bigger presence at STL than at IND or CMH, and STL is also located in a bigger metro area than IND or CMH.

There are some ties between BHM and CMH due to Honda plants in Lincoln, AL and Marysville, OH, but most of the Honda business travelers going between Alabama and CMH are willing to either (a) connect to CMH from BHM through ATL or DTW on DL or (b) fly nonstop to CMH from ATL. The drive to the Honda plant in Lincoln, AL is approximately 40 minutes from BHM and approximately 1 hr. 40 mins. from ATL.

It is also usually quicker to drive to Lincoln, AL from the ATL airport than to connect to BHM through ATL and then drive to Lincoln, AL from the BHM airport due to layovers in ATL. The fares are also usually cheaper on CMH-ATL nonstop flights than on CMH-ATL-BHM connections, and CMH also has nonstop service from ATL on both DL and WN.

The travel time of ATL-CMH nonstop flights is approximately 1 hr. 30 mins., whereas the total travel time of BHM-ATL-CMH on DL is approximately 3 hr. 15 mins.

jplatts wrote:

FLYKTPA wrote:

ATLgaUSA wrote:

The fact that they think CMH and IND are the two markets that need nonstop service solidifies to me that they aren’t even seriously recruiting new airlines or flights. There are many markets with higher PDEW numbers that we don’t have nonstop flights to.

I agree! The PDEW is close to nonexistent on those. They mentioned business traffic, I get that angle but what airline would do it nonstop? There’s no one. Southwest can’t fill a 737 on it and a Breeze type flight likely wouldn’t provide a business traveler friendly schedule. Trying to go after Indy and Columbus is a waste of time imo unless there’s businesses willing to pony up big money to the airlines to essentially revenue guarantee the flight.

While I agree that IND or CMH are unlikely to see nonstop service from BHM (at least on US3 carriers or LCC's), WN re-adding BHM-STL nonstop service might be a possibility with the connecting opportunities that are there to other destinations in the Midwest and West through STL on WN. WN also has a much bigger presence at STL than at IND or CMH, and STL is also located in a bigger metro area than IND or CMH.

There are some ties between BHM and CMH due to Honda plants in Lincoln, AL and Marysville, OH, but most of the Honda business travelers going between Alabama and CMH are willing to either (a) connect to CMH from BHM through ATL or DTW on DL or (b) fly nonstop to CMH from ATL. The drive to the Honda plant in Lincoln, AL is approximately 40 minutes from BHM and approximately 1 hr. 40 mins. from ATL.

It is also usually quicker to drive to Lincoln, AL from the ATL airport than to connect to BHM through ATL and then drive to Lincoln, AL from the BHM airport due to layovers in ATL. The fares are also usually cheaper on CMH-ATL nonstop flights than on CMH-ATL-BHM connections, and CMH also has nonstop service from ATL on both DL and WN.

The travel time of ATL-CMH nonstop flights is approximately 1 hr. 30 mins., whereas the total travel time of BHM-ATL-CMH on DL is approximately 3 hr. 15 mins.

They are very out of touch with reality.

Reality is that DL doesn't really care about serving BHM, other than the token flight to DTW and LGA and shuttling as many people as possible to ATL. The only potential growth for DL in BHM is adding SLC and MSP, but why use MSP when you have DTW, and why stretch an RJ to SLC when you can load up a A320 or 737 in ATL? UA doesn't care about BHM anyway, and AA really only has remaining growth to PHX and LAX, but why overfly DFW when you can load up a bigger plane there? The Big 3 only care about loading up their hubs from BHM (other than the occasional DL or AA one-off to MCO).

WN also only serves their "hubs" (even though they hate the term) from BHM, with the only remaining growth also being PHX and STL, as they are reluctant to use BNA from BHM post Wright.

The only way BHM can grow is to go with some of these ULCCs now. If they want CMH or IND, it would have to be on Spirit or Allegiant, and they would be best served getting on board with one of the new ULCCs while they are getting established and can be a focus. ViaAir had the right network and groundwork that someone like Breeze could model BHM service on (minus all of the administrative mismanagement and reliability issues that Via had). Or they could try to get on with Avelo as they expand to east of the Mississippi.

Scoots71 wrote:

jplatts wrote:

FLYKTPA wrote:

I agree! The PDEW is close to nonexistent on those. They mentioned business traffic, I get that angle but what airline would do it nonstop? There’s no one. Southwest can’t fill a 737 on it and a Breeze type flight likely wouldn’t provide a business traveler friendly schedule. Trying to go after Indy and Columbus is a waste of time imo unless there’s businesses willing to pony up big money to the airlines to essentially revenue guarantee the flight.

While I agree that IND or CMH are unlikely to see nonstop service from BHM (at least on US3 carriers or LCC's), WN re-adding BHM-STL nonstop service might be a possibility with the connecting opportunities that are there to other destinations in the Midwest and West through STL on WN. WN also has a much bigger presence at STL than at IND or CMH, and STL is also located in a bigger metro area than IND or CMH.

There are some ties between BHM and CMH due to Honda plants in Lincoln, AL and Marysville, OH, but most of the Honda business travelers going between Alabama and CMH are willing to either (a) connect to CMH from BHM through ATL or DTW on DL or (b) fly nonstop to CMH from ATL. The drive to the Honda plant in Lincoln, AL is approximately 40 minutes from BHM and approximately 1 hr. 40 mins. from ATL.

It is also usually quicker to drive to Lincoln, AL from the ATL airport than to connect to BHM through ATL and then drive to Lincoln, AL from the BHM airport due to layovers in ATL. The fares are also usually cheaper on CMH-ATL nonstop flights than on CMH-ATL-BHM connections, and CMH also has nonstop service from ATL on both DL and WN.

The travel time of ATL-CMH nonstop flights is approximately 1 hr. 30 mins., whereas the total travel time of BHM-ATL-CMH on DL is approximately 3 hr. 15 mins.

They are very out of touch with reality.

Reality is that DL doesn't really care about serving BHM, other than the token flight to DTW and LGA and shuttling as many people as possible to ATL. The only potential growth for DL in BHM is adding SLC and MSP, but why use MSP when you have DTW, and why stretch an RJ to SLC when you can load up a A320 or 737 in ATL? UA doesn't care about BHM anyway, and AA really only has remaining growth to PHX and LAX, but why overfly DFW when you can load up a bigger plane there? The Big 3 only care about loading up their hubs from BHM (other than the occasional DL or AA one-off to MCO).

WN also only serves their "hubs" (even though they hate the term) from BHM, with the only remaining growth also being PHX and STL, as they are reluctant to use BNA from BHM post Wright.

The only way BHM can grow is to go with some of these ULCCs now. If they want CMH or IND, it would have to be on Spirit or Allegiant, and they would be best served getting on board with one of the new ULCCs while they are getting established and can be a focus. ViaAir had the right network and groundwork that someone like Breeze could model BHM service on (minus all of the administrative mismanagement and reliability issues that Via had). Or they could try to get on with Avelo as they expand to east of the Mississippi.

Avelo won’t work for BHM from New Haven. BHM is a prime market for Spirit, Allegiant, and Breeze. I wouldn’t revenue guarantee Allegiant but I would Spirit or Breeze. Unfortunately, the authority seems uninterested in recruiting additional service.

Latest passenger totals: 213,511 in June. Up 263.2% over 2020 (obviously) and up to 77% of 2019. Compared to May which was 68% of the 2019 number.

Market share: AA 33%, DL 30%, WN 25%, UA still at 12%.

https://www.bizjournals.com/birmingham/ ... loser.html

Today marks the beginning of Breeze’s service to HSV. Looks like Neeleman is at the airport to celebrate. They’ll be beginning MSY-HSV today. Hopefully, BHM is added in the near future!

gdavis003 wrote:

Today marks the beginning of Breeze’s service to HSV. Looks like Neeleman is at the airport to celebrate. They’ll be beginning MSY-HSV today. Hopefully, BHM is added in the near future!

Looks like everyone on the inaugural HSV flights got there for free due to delays coming in from CHS.

https://www.al.com/news/huntsville/2021 ... nefit.html

Scoots71 wrote:

Looks like everyone on the inaugural HSV flights got there for free due to delays coming in from CHS.

https://www.al.com/news/huntsville/2021 ... nefit.html

There was a delay coming in from CHS, and the delay got longer in HSV:

Incoming flight this a.m. from Charleston was 1:45 late getting here. There was an additional mechanical delay at HSV and the flight to New Orleans left about 3:47 late.

The flight back from New Orleans to HSV also 3:47 late, and final flight of day from HSV back to Charleston also late by that amount.

(BTW I pulled those numbers from the Breeze flight status pages.)

diverdave wrote:

Scoots71 wrote:

Looks like everyone on the inaugural HSV flights got there for free due to delays coming in from CHS.

https://www.al.com/news/huntsville/2021 ... nefit.html

There was a delay coming in from CHS, and the delay got longer in HSV:

Incoming flight this a.m. from Charleston was 1:45 late getting here. There was an additional mechanical delay at HSV and the flight to New Orleans left about 3:47 late.

The flight back from New Orleans to HSV also 3:47 late, and final flight of day from HSV back to Charleston also late by that amount.

(BTW I pulled those numbers from the Breeze flight status pages.)

Anyone have any idea how the loads were?

Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN flights out of BHM in April 2021:
BHM-DAL - 13224 passengers, 15640 seats, 84.55% load factor
BHM-DEN - 5655 passengers, 9222 seats, 61.32% load factor
BHM-LAS - 5453 passengers, 7344 seats, 74.25% load factor
BHM-MCO - 11520 passengers, 15563 seats, 74.02% load factor
BHM-MDW - 8824 passengers, 10206 seats, 86.46% load factor
BHM-TPA - 7287 passengers, 9314 seats, 78.24% load factor

jplatts wrote:

Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN flights out of BHM in April 2021:
BHM-DAL - 13224 passengers, 15640 seats, 84.55% load factor
BHM-DEN - 5655 passengers, 9222 seats, 61.32% load factor
BHM-LAS - 5453 passengers, 7344 seats, 74.25% load factor
BHM-MCO - 11520 passengers, 15563 seats, 74.02% load factor
BHM-MDW - 8824 passengers, 10206 seats, 86.46% load factor
BHM-TPA - 7287 passengers, 9314 seats, 78.24% load factor

I’m surprised at the DEN loads. I haven’t been following them on a month by month basis. What were the loads in the winter?

ATLgaUSA wrote:

jplatts wrote:

Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN flights out of BHM in April 2021:
BHM-DEN - 5655 passengers, 9222 seats, 61.32% load factor

I’m surprised at the DEN loads. I haven’t been following them on a month by month basis. What were the loads in the winter?

Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN BHM-DEN in the 1/2021 - 3/2021 period:
1/2021 - 4230 passengers, 7722 seats, 54.78% load factor
2/2021 - 4591 passengers, 6896 seats, 66.57% load factor
3/2021 - 4823 passengers, 7579 seats, 63.64% load factor

WN is moving up the start date for BWI and HOU service from BHM. HOU will resume on 9/7 with 4 times a week service. BWI will resume on 9/12 with Sunday only service, moving to 4 times a week in October. These routes were originally set to resume in November.

https://www.flybirmingham.com/southwest ... september/

Breeze has also downgraded all HSV flights to 2x/week.

Maybe BHM management isn't that stupid after all

BangersAndMash wrote:

Maybe BHM management isn't that stupid after all

I think BHM would have supported the flights to MSY better than HSV. I am not sure BHM could support 4x/week to CHS but I also don't know the PDEW in that market. I do not think Breeze would have been successful on BHM-TPA because of WN's presence on that route. I do, however, believe BHM could support 3x-4x/weekly to SAT.

ATLgaUSA wrote:

BangersAndMash wrote:

Maybe BHM management isn't that stupid after all

I think BHM would have supported the flights to MSY better than HSV. I am not sure BHM could support 4x/week to CHS but I also don't know the PDEW in that market. I do not think Breeze would have been successful on BHM-TPA because of WN's presence on that route. I do, however, believe BHM could support 3x-4x/weekly to SAT.

I meant more generally, rather than specific routes. A lot of posters argued BHM missed the boat with Breeze. I think there's nothing wrong with being prudent rather than chasing every new airline under the sun. Look at HSV, a month in and everything has already been cut in half.

BangersAndMash wrote:

ATLgaUSA wrote:

BangersAndMash wrote:

Maybe BHM management isn't that stupid after all

I think BHM would have supported the flights to MSY better than HSV. I am not sure BHM could support 4x/week to CHS but I also don't know the PDEW in that market. I do not think Breeze would have been successful on BHM-TPA because of WN's presence on that route. I do, however, believe BHM could support 3x-4x/weekly to SAT.

I meant more generally, rather than specific routes. A lot of posters argued BHM missed the boat with Breeze. I think there's nothing wrong with being prudent rather than chasing every new airline under the sun. Look at HSV, a month in and everything has already been cut in half.

They’re also two relatively different markets. I don’t think that the adjustments to Breeze are necessarily indicative of what would happen at BHM

gdavis003 wrote:

BangersAndMash wrote:

ATLgaUSA wrote:

I think BHM would have supported the flights to MSY better than HSV. I am not sure BHM could support 4x/week to CHS but I also don't know the PDEW in that market. I do not think Breeze would have been successful on BHM-TPA because of WN's presence on that route. I do, however, believe BHM could support 3x-4x/weekly to SAT.

I meant more generally, rather than specific routes. A lot of posters argued BHM missed the boat with Breeze. I think there's nothing wrong with being prudent rather than chasing every new airline under the sun. Look at HSV, a month in and everything has already been cut in half.

They’re also two relatively different markets. I don’t think that the adjustments to Breeze are necessarily indicative of what would happen at BHM

That may well be the case. And anyway, nothing prevents BHM from pursuing Breeze in the future. When MX have sorted out their operation and done their network planning a bit better.

Does anyone have a list of PDEW on BHM's top 10 markets without nonstop service?

BangersAndMash wrote:

ATLgaUSA wrote:

BangersAndMash wrote:

Maybe BHM management isn't that stupid after all

I think BHM would have supported the flights to MSY better than HSV. I am not sure BHM could support 4x/week to CHS but I also don't know the PDEW in that market. I do not think Breeze would have been successful on BHM-TPA because of WN's presence on that route. I do, however, believe BHM could support 3x-4x/weekly to SAT.

I meant more generally, rather than specific routes. A lot of posters argued BHM missed the boat with Breeze. I think there's nothing wrong with being prudent rather than chasing every new airline under the sun. Look at HSV, a month in and everything has already been cut in half.

Breeze cut a lot of routes other than just out of HSV.

(sorry for the extra post, too late to edit the previous one.)

I frankly admit I do not expect Breeze to survive in HSV, and I also expect Breeze round two (with Airbus A220s) to serve Birmingham.

Much of Huntsville's leisure traffic bleeds to BNA, BHM, and ATL and that is hard for a carrier such as Breeze to overcome. Allegiant's fiasco here many years ago ruined the image of LCCs here for many. It got a LOT of play, even though Allegiant recovered nicely by bringing in another aircraft later in the day. https://www.al.com/breaking/2008/03/tra ... eir_b.html

Yet somehow Frontier hangs on here with their three day a week service to Orlando - that must be doing reasonably well, as we know that Frontier will pack up and leave in a heartbeat.

And there is also Silver serving Orlando, but perhaps it gets by on folks continuing to the Caribbean or the Bahamas.

In the meantime, BHM can enjoy the high level of services from the four largest domestic carriers.

Mobile is in for a million dollar grant for service to IAD:

"The funding will be used for a revenue guarantee, marketing program and start-up cost offsets for new nonstop service to Washington-Dulles International Airport (IAD), using United Airlines. The community states that its existing service has been drastically reduced due to the pandemic, making it difficult for passengers to find availability. The community believes that service to IAD will add needed capacity. The community will provide significant local funding for the proposal and the airport has committed support for the new route after the grant ends."

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1454827&start=50#p22891395

diverdave wrote:

Mobile is in for a million dollar grant for service to IAD:

"The funding will be used for a revenue guarantee, marketing program and start-up cost offsets for new nonstop service to Washington-Dulles International Airport (IAD), using United Airlines. The community states that its existing service has been drastically reduced due to the pandemic, making it difficult for passengers to find availability. The community believes that service to IAD will add needed capacity. The community will provide significant local funding for the proposal and the airport has committed support for the new route after the grant ends."

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1454827&start=50#p22891395

Here is more information on this with quotes.

https://www.bizjournals.com/birmingham/ ... grant.html

https://bhamnow.com/2021/08/04/united-a ... ut-of-bhm/

Looks like United will be adding flights out of BHM for college football season. Two flights up to State College on an ERJ-175 (which is what the article says but online seat map looks like an AW CRJ200) for the Auburn-PSU game, and an A319 flight to CLL for the Alabama-Texas A&M game.

The article also mentions a flight from BTR to BHM for the Alabama-LSU game for LSU fans, but I’m not seeing that being bookable on United’s website yet. Regardless, it will be nice to see a United mainline jet parked at a gate here at BHM.

Looks like the Delta 752 that came into BHM for storage prior to a mx check today landed on Runway 36. I guess there were no passengers on board, but I can’t remember the last time I saw a mainline jet landing on 36, been a while

ATLgaUSA wrote:

Does anyone have a list of PDEW on BHM's top 10 markets without nonstop service?

Circling back on this. I'm not sure how one would pull that data. Do any of you have it?

ATLgaUSA wrote:

ATLgaUSA wrote:

Does anyone have a list of PDEW on BHM's top 10 markets without nonstop service?

Circling back on this. I'm not sure how one would pull that data. Do any of you have it?

I don't know what it has been over the past couple of years, but I know about 5 years ago, it included IND, BOS, and SFO. BAA has the data, but don't know how anyone would find it without a public records request.

Depending on how accurate transportation.gov is this year, below is the 2021 numbers:

1. Dallas - 230; 2. Orlando - 206; 3. Denver - 138; 4. Miami - 132; 5. Houston - 120; 6. Chicago - 119; 7. Washington, DC - 100; 8. Los Angeles - 88; 9. Tampa - 86; 10. Las Vegas - 74
11. NYC - 68; 12. Sat Lake City - 63; 13. Phoenix - 54; 14. Charlotte - 51; 15. Detroit - 48; 16. San Francisco - 42; 17. San Antonio - 41; 18. Austin - 38; 19. Boston - 37; 20. Philadelphia - 34
21. Raleigh/Durham - 29; 22. Seattle - 28; 23. Jacksonville - 27; 24. Bozeman, MT - 25; 25. Cleveland - 24; 26. Kansas City - 23; 27. Pittsburgh - 23; 28. San Diego - 21; 29. Minneapolis - 21

ATLgaUSA wrote:

ATLgaUSA wrote:

Does anyone have a list of PDEW on BHM's top 10 markets without nonstop service?

Circling back on this. I'm not sure how one would pull that data. Do any of you have it?

Here is the 2019 numbers that I could find. Again, not sure if I'm pulling this information correctly or if transportation.gov is a reliable source, so if not, feel free to disregard.

Los Angeles - 230
Boston - 170
San Francisco - 163
Seattle - 115
Phoenix - 102
Raleigh Durham - 99
Austin - 98
San Antonio - 88
Minneapolis - 80
San Diego - 79
Jacksonville - 69
Pittsburgh - 66
Columbus - 52

Scoots71 wrote:

ATLgaUSA wrote:

ATLgaUSA wrote:

Does anyone have a list of PDEW on BHM's top 10 markets without nonstop service?

Circling back on this. I'm not sure how one would pull that data. Do any of you have it?

Here is the 2019 numbers that I could find. Again, not sure if I'm pulling this information correctly or if transportation.gov is a reliable source, so if not, feel free to disregard.

Los Angeles - 230
Boston - 170
San Francisco - 163
Seattle - 115
Phoenix - 102
Raleigh Durham - 99
Austin - 98
San Antonio - 88
Minneapolis - 80
San Diego - 79
Jacksonville - 69
Pittsburgh - 66
Columbus - 52

Based on that, LAX, BOS, PHX, SFO, RDU, AUS, MSP, and JAX seem like realistic targets on a mix of mainline for west coast cities and regionals for east coast cities. Crazy that the BHM authority is looking for airlines for fly to CMH and IND when there is such low hanging fruit to these cities.

ATLgaUSA wrote:

Based on that, LAX, BOS, PHX, SFO, RDU, AUS, MSP, and JAX seem like realistic targets on a mix of mainline for west coast cities and regionals for east coast cities. Crazy that the BHM authority is looking for airlines for fly to CMH and IND when there is such low hanging fruit to these cities.

There was a BBJ article in 2019 talking about the BHM business community (including board member Bill Smith) saying the top desired surveyed locations for non-stop were LAX, BOS, SFO, and RDU, and that the business community desired JetBlue as a new carrier.

I know Southwest used to serve PHX and JAX directly from BHM prior to the Wright Amendment expiring, and they had a run at ONT as well. Got to figure now the mentality among WN, AA, and UA is that they just shuttle everyone through their Texas hubs and can get more leakage to other markets from there.

Obviously, BHM tried to get RDU and AUS with the ViaAir experiment.

It still feels like DL is missing an opportunity to capture more westbound traffic by not at least serving SLC.

Scoots71 wrote:

ATLgaUSA wrote:

Based on that, LAX, BOS, PHX, SFO, RDU, AUS, MSP, and JAX seem like realistic targets on a mix of mainline for west coast cities and regionals for east coast cities. Crazy that the BHM authority is looking for airlines for fly to CMH and IND when there is such low hanging fruit to these cities.

There was a BBJ article in 2019 talking about the BHM business community (including board member Bill Smith) saying the top desired surveyed locations for non-stop were LAX, BOS, SFO, and RDU, and that the business community desired JetBlue as a new carrier.

I know Southwest used to serve PHX and JAX directly from BHM prior to the Wright Amendment expiring, and they had a run at ONT as well. Got to figure now the mentality among WN, AA, and UA is that they just shuttle everyone through their Texas hubs and can get more leakage to other markets from there.

Obviously, BHM tried to get RDU and AUS with the ViaAir experiment.

It still feels like DL is missing an opportunity to capture more westbound traffic by not at least serving SLC.

I would hope that AA also considers a 2x weekly or so E175 flight to AUS now with their buildup there. The MCO flight is likely ending soon, as it was supposed to be a summer, seasonal flight. I also noticed that mainline to CLT has recently ended, presumably seasonal as well. Still 2 mainline flights a day to DFW, at the moment

gdavis003 wrote:

Scoots71 wrote:

ATLgaUSA wrote:

Based on that, LAX, BOS, PHX, SFO, RDU, AUS, MSP, and JAX seem like realistic targets on a mix of mainline for west coast cities and regionals for east coast cities. Crazy that the BHM authority is looking for airlines for fly to CMH and IND when there is such low hanging fruit to these cities.

There was a BBJ article in 2019 talking about the BHM business community (including board member Bill Smith) saying the top desired surveyed locations for non-stop were LAX, BOS, SFO, and RDU, and that the business community desired JetBlue as a new carrier.

I know Southwest used to serve PHX and JAX directly from BHM prior to the Wright Amendment expiring, and they had a run at ONT as well. Got to figure now the mentality among WN, AA, and UA is that they just shuttle everyone through their Texas hubs and can get more leakage to other markets from there.

Obviously, BHM tried to get RDU and AUS with the ViaAir experiment.

It still feels like DL is missing an opportunity to capture more westbound traffic by not at least serving SLC.

I would hope that AA also considers a 2x weekly or so E175 flight to AUS now with their buildup there. The MCO flight is likely ending soon, as it was supposed to be a summer, seasonal flight. I also noticed that mainline to CLT has recently ended, presumably seasonal as well. Still 2 mainline flights a day to DFW, at the moment

Austin is a business market. 2x/week wouldn’t work. A daily E170 or E145 would. I was on the mainline flight to Charlotte at the end of July. They were offering vouchers to folks to take the next flight. Maybe the extra seats depressed yields, but in my one experience, it was completely full.

Also, when did WN fly BHM-ONT? That seems like a very weird transcontinental route to try.

ATLgaUSA wrote:

Also, when did WN fly BHM-ONT? That seems like a very weird transcontinental route to try.

I remember seeing it there around 2013.

Any chance MGM might see a United flight to Houston? We're stuck with either CLT, DFW, ATL or DCA.

IFlyMGN wrote:

Any chance MGM might see a United flight to Houston? We're stuck with either CLT, DFW, ATL or DCA.

I highly doubt it. MGM was an airport devastated by the consolidation around the recession. It would require UA to first enter MGM, and I don't think UA has ever served MGM, at least never in the last 30 years. UA certainly has shown no interest in minor SE destinations.

At it's peak in the mid 2000's, we only ever saw AA to DFW and ORD, US to CLT, DL to ATL and DTW, NW to MEM, and CO to IAH. And the DCA was never a destination until the last few years.

July passenger data for BHM is out:

229,467 passengers, up 180% from last year for obvious reasons. 83% of the July 2019 passenger total. Also up by about 16k passengers from June. Also the best month since December 2019.

Scoots71 wrote:

IFlyMGN wrote:

Any chance MGM might see a United flight to Houston? We're stuck with either CLT, DFW, ATL or DCA.

I highly doubt it. MGM was an airport devastated by the consolidation around the recession. It would require UA to first enter MGM, and I don't think UA has ever served MGM, at least never in the last 30 years. UA certainly has shown no interest in minor SE destinations.

At it's peak in the mid 2000's, we only ever saw AA to DFW and ORD, US to CLT, DL to ATL and DTW, NW to MEM, and CO to IAH. And the DCA was never a destination until the last few years.

I'd echo this, and UA is generally cutting in the region rather than increasing: they're ending IAH-CHA, for example.