myki wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

Looking at this from an advertisement perspective, EY will be just beat up if they retire the type. Best from a sales perspective to just late it fade away.

Being that there is also that Middle Eastern pride thing where they would rather waste billions of dollars to save face rather than admitting to a failure, just letting things fade away until they are forgotten is common practice in that part of the world.

Highlight the positives. Ignore and forget the negatives.

I agree there is a cultural as well as business reason to keep quiet.

Lightsaber

Blerg wrote:

veeseeten wrote:

Virtual737 wrote:

Wasn't a large part of the start of their downfall the investments into Air Seychelles, Jet Airways, Alitalia, Air Berlin etc? I remember in the years where I was flying them regularly those "lesser" brands were forever pushed to me on the IFE screens before takeoff and with almost every announcement.

That path was very much Hogan.

Exactly. There were plenty of systemic things from the Hogan days that aren’t quickly or easily changed - difficult backdrop against which to implement a consistent new strategic direction.

My whole point is that maybe Hogan's strategy did not produce the needed results but once he was gone new management simply did not know what do to and how to reform the airline. Remember how they cut meals on long-haul flights or reduced perks in business class? All that while still charging the same price. At the same time airlines such as Turkish Airlines, Qatar and Emirates kept the pressure on them in key markets. EY even failed in some important markets like IKA.

I follow you, but the key thing is that Hogan’s strategy didn’t produce financial results - the ‘profits’ made by 2015 or so (can’t remember the year) were a function of clever accounting, at best.

The result of that was, that Hogan left, they had a brand image that was vastly out of kilter with their ability to cover costs. Ultimately, the need to drive efficiencies in the short term was greater than the need to realign the brand to the new, reduced offering - so that disparity widened - unfortunate for the customer, but not surprising at all.

That’s what I mean about Hogan creating systemic problems. New team is basically having to break a few eggs to make the omelette.

veeseeten wrote:

Blerg wrote:

veeseeten wrote:

Exactly. There were plenty of systemic things from the Hogan days that aren’t quickly or easily changed - difficult backdrop against which to implement a consistent new strategic direction.

My whole point is that maybe Hogan's strategy did not produce the needed results but once he was gone new management simply did not know what do to and how to reform the airline. Remember how they cut meals on long-haul flights or reduced perks in business class? All that while still charging the same price. At the same time airlines such as Turkish Airlines, Qatar and Emirates kept the pressure on them in key markets. EY even failed in some important markets like IKA.

I follow you, but the key thing is that Hogan’s strategy didn’t produce financial results - the ‘profits’ made by 2015 or so (can’t remember the year) were a function of clever accounting, at best.

The result of that was, that Hogan left, they had a brand image that was vastly out of kilter with their ability to cover costs. Ultimately, the need to drive efficiencies in the short term was greater than the need to realign the brand to the new, reduced offering - so that disparity widened - unfortunate for the customer, but not surprising at all.

That’s what I mean about Hogan creating systemic problems. New team is basically having to break a few eggs to make the omelette.

Indeed, he created an unsustainable mess but what came after produced an even bigger one. I honestly don't know what they are trying to do now especially with Air Arabia.

This is the problem with senior airline execs. They come, destroy the airline and then leave. They don't face any consequences for their poor choices or bear the lossses in any way. Infact, they would have earned their fat pay checks all the while they were ruining the airline. Hogan was one such.

Now I understand, why a certain airline in India- GoAir- fires their CEO, and other seniors, almost every six to nine months. They keep shuffling and going through new CEO's- most of these have been western expats. Their owner clearly doesn't trust such execs, and they are booted out when they aren't performing to expected standards. Their latest hire is Ben Baldanza of Sprit fame, wonder how long he'll stick around.

Looks like they are close to shedding their stake in Air Seychelles:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... artnership

Air Seychelles and Etihad Airways are in talks to dissolve their partnership, a final remnant of the Abu Dhabi carrier’s equity alliance strategy that led to billions in losses.

The Seychelles government is set to become the sole owner of the airline, Air Seychelles Chief Executive Officer Remco Althuis said Wednesday at an online event hosted by industry group CAPA. The talks “are being formalized as we speak,” he said. Etihad Airways declined to comment.

Would I be right in saying that their only remaining shareholding (in an active airline) will be Air Serbia?

Breathe wrote:

Would I be right in saying that their only remaining shareholding (in an active airline) will be Air Serbia?

Even that is on shaky ground: https://simpleflying.com/etihad-makes-m ... ir-serbia/

JU stopped serving AUH out of BEG a while back, and EY stopped the same route due to Covid-19 (potentially due to no feed from Australia?). As of last week 5W have since announced they will throw their hat in the ring on this route: https://www.exyuaviation.com/2021/04/wi ... dhabi.html

Blerg wrote:

avier wrote:

EY needs to scale down and become like another Gulf Air. Have a small mixed fleet of NB & WB and serve important markets, targetting mainly O&D traffic, with connecting feed being the bonus.

Yeah but O&D is also handled by Wizz Air and I doubt they can compete with them.

Two different market segments

A380 A6-APG ferried to Teruel Spain today.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/A6APG

avier wrote:

Now I understand, why a certain airline in India- GoAir- fires their CEO, and other seniors, almost every six to nine months. They keep shuffling and going through new CEO's- most of these have been western expats. Their owner clearly doesn't trust such execs, and they are booted out when they aren't performing to expected standards. Their latest hire is Ben Baldanza of Sprit fame, wonder how long he'll stick around.

Baldanza has been on the GoAir board since 2018. He is vice-chair of the board, not a day-to-day executive manager like a CEO.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos- ... 021-04-22/

big news coming out of Etihad. They plan to stop 77W operations this year,

fleet will based around 787 and 350-1000

too early to comment on 777-9

Etihad Airways to stop operating Boeing 777-300ER jets this year:

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos- ... 021-04-22/

Wow, what a huge reduction in capacity by phasing out the A380 and 77W? Has EY officially said they will phase the A380 out as in selling them and not just temporarily decommissioning them? Am I glad I saw their A380 in LHR in 2019. I'm glad I saw all the A380s in LHR in 2019 (summer). Who would have thought that would be the last summer the A380 would be operated for most A380 operators.

A388

[twoid][/twoid]

Opus99 wrote:

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/etihad-airways-stop-operating-boeing-777-300er-jets-this-year-2021-04-22/

big news coming out of Etihad. They plan to stop 77W operations this year,

fleet will based around 787 and 350-1000

too early to comment on 777-9

I actually don’t agree on this one as the 777 and 787 could be one common pilot pool. That said, the 77WS should only be in a 330-seat format. Then again, they have to make something of their A350 decision, either flying them or leasing them to QR, which actually has an A350 fleet of scale.

I agree with phasing out the A380. There is no future for that model.

Makes sense they were already replacing 77W routes with 787-10.
77W still has resale value so better get rid of it ASAP, 350-1000 will do the job of the routes where 787-10 is just not enough.

Common pool of pilots doesn't justify on its own to keep the fleet, 787-10 already has 330 seats. They should instead keep the high density config for the Manila and Bangkok in their network but again A350-1000 will do just fine there for them.
Smart of them that they didn't repaint them all too

And what about the remaining Etihad 777F's, one (A6-DDB) already parked since April 10th and sold to Lufthansa Cargo ?, four (4) remaining.

Interesting that the CEO said the fleet would be heavily built around the A350-1000 (and 787, but we already knew that). Are the 20 still confirmed on order, and is there any speculation on if they'll be introduced sooner?

MrHMSH wrote:

Interesting that the CEO said the fleet would be heavily built around the A350-1000 (and 787, but we already knew that). Are the 20 still confirmed on order, and is there any speculation on if they'll be introduced sooner?

CEO says they’ll take 12

I think it would be good for them to only operate 3 aircraft families. A321neo, A350 and B787.
This would help them reduce their overall operating costs.

I always said that B777 have no more place with Etihad for some months now.

Also grounded A-380's indefinitely.
https://www.flightglobal.com/fleets/eti ... 19.article

A350-1000 will replace the 77W and eventually when EY need to replace the A380 capacity the 77X will join the party . Etihad will have a very efficient fleet I hope it works for them . I was just wondering if the 787-8 has a place in EY network in order to streamline the fleet , they could convert the remaining A321neo order in some sort of agreement with Airbus in favor of the A350's . On the other hand EY can negotiate with Boeing the conversion of the order of 787-9/10 to some -8 units to be delivered later on . Then you will have axed one more family making the fleet even more flexible , what are your thoughts?

MatheusLPV wrote:

A350-1000 will replace the 77W and eventually when EY need to replace the A380 capacity the 77X will join the party . Etihad will have a very efficient fleet I hope it works for them . I was just wondering if the 787-8 has a place in EY network in order to streamline the fleet , they could convert the remaining A321neo order in some sort of agreement with Airbus in favor of the A350's . On the other hand EY can negotiate with Boeing the conversion of the order of 787-9/10 to some -8 units to be delivered later on . Then you will have axed one more family making the fleet even more flexible , what are your thoughts?

The A321 neos keep EY competitive in the African and Middle East Market. That being said, more A350s are still needed to fly long haul routes.

Etihad and Abu Dhabi needs to work together to find a niche market. Compete with Emirates and Qatar will never succeed. Whichever aircrafts Etihad would have in future, it needs to look into:
1, Trunk transit routes that could be profitable; and
2, Medium cost holiday and leisure O&D routes, this needs to build Abu Dhabi as a leisure and family holiday destination for European/Asia middle class. The argument here is that a strong leisure demand for Abu Dhabi for its sun, sea and sands could keep Etihad busy to a certain extend that could build a base for steady cash flow.

So instead of fly passengers from Paris to Bangkok for €400 return, Etihad should aim for a market where people would pay €800 for a trip from Europe to Bali, or a £500 London to Abu Dhabi. Basically, bring Spain and Thailand to Abu Dhabi, people will come to visit, and Etihad can switch more to O&D and survive with A350 and B787.

ILNFlyer wrote:

Also grounded A-380's indefinitely.
https://www.flightglobal.com/fleets/eti ... 19.article

Not surprising. Still sad. EYs livery did look best on the mighty A380.

firemansparky wrote:

Etihad Airways to stop operating Boeing 777-300ER jets this year:

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos- ... 021-04-22/

Many, if not most of these 19 77Ws will be finished for good once they leave EYs fleet as there is a huge surplus on the market. This will bring secondhand prices down by a few million I suppose. Still there are very few secondhand buyers for such a big plane for the foreseeable future, and retirements are much, much more faster than any freighter conversion program, and in a much bigger scale than the freight market needs. And for potential buyers which might be interested in used 77Ws in 2, 3, 4 years time there'll be plenty fresh lease returns by then.

One question, does EY own the 77Ws, or are there also some combination of mortgaged (encumbered) and leased units in the fleet?

With the retire of the A380 and now the B77W from Etihad fleet do they also plan to drop First class? Taking both A/C types out of the fleet they are left with 5 x B789 with First. Do they announced when they expect to introduce the A35K into the fleet?

Would anyone be able to guesstimate the current market value of these 77W's? I wonder if this is a ripe time for new or smaller and growing airlines to pick up such aircraft for extremely attractive prices. There are new airlines like Flypop and another from Korea which are acquiring WB's like A333's. Wonder how a cheap 77W would work for such category of airlines.

The 777 have old product, as opposed to the new version of Business Class, so were (not exclusively) predominently flown to destinations where price mattered more than product e.g. the likes of YYZ and MNL

Must admit, I never thought I'd see the A350s in EY service. Excellent news.

DUSZRH wrote:

IFor you as a customer, the party is somewhat over (someone else footing (part of) the bill).

Very accurate comment.

For some perspective, between approximately 2010 - 2015 (I can't remember the exact time period, but pretty close), you could buy J class round trips from UK > MNL or UK > BKK for as low as £1500, with ~£1800 being available most of the time. With their double / triple miles promotions you could often attain (and almost always retain) their top tier FF status (Gold Elite which changed to Platinum).with 5 such round trips, for a total spend of less than £10k per year.

I was spending in the region of £12k per year, which is still not a small amount of cash, but would almost always be upgraded from J to F on the A346 / 77W and literally every single time on the A380. That included a chauffer for the 100 mile UK trip from home to airport (on both departure and arrival) and the most amazing service you could ask for. On one occasion, towards the end of a FF year period, I received an email saying... don't lost your Gold Elite status, book a flight and receive triple miles. I booked a Y class fare (my first ever with them) for something like £600 and was double upgraded from Y to F on both legs that I didn't also pay the ~£400 upgrade fee on. For some reason, my tickets were often tagged as "CVIP", which makes quite the difference when arriving at MNL.

That top tier status and a ticket in F (regardless if it was an upgrade or not) also came with a 70kg baggage allowance. On one occasion I used it to transfer a HUGE electric piano from UK to Asia, free of charge.

No chance in hell they were not losing money on the above, but the party was wonderful while it lasted. Out of interest, I was always a fan of the BBC series "Airport", and you would almost always be greeted by one or both of the 2 staff that Etihad employed who were often featured on the show in their previous roles.

Good candidates for the Pax to F program

myki wrote:

The 777 have old product,

...and even within that single fleet the product was not consistent. My experience is a few years old now but most of the 2 class had the older "blueish" J product and the 3 class had the newer "golden" J. Quite a difference between the 2. Plus of course the odd balls from Jet Airways.

Hopefully EY's 77W's could provide feed stock for the new 77W freighter
conversion program that was recently launched.

Etihad seems to have resumed regular Nairobi operations.

EY641 is currently crossing in to Somalia operating a B787-9 A6-BLU.

MileHFL400 wrote:

Etihad seems to have resumed regular Nairobi operations.

EY641 is currently crossing in to Somalia operating a B787-9 A6-BLU.

They resumed NBO OPS from 04-May - 2 x weekly Day 2 & 4

Etihad Airways is set to receive its first A350-1000 on 22MAY21.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They’ve contractually been delivered in 2019, stored as per Etihad’s recovery plan. No interiors have been fitted, so they’ll be of to Abu Dhabi to have that done.

Seems to be confirmed, the first two A350-1000 are out of storage in Bordeaux and prepared to be flown to Abu Dahbi. A6-XWB on 22-May, A6-XWA will follow expected soon.
In German:
https://www.aerotelegraph.com/etihad-holt-erste-airbus-a350-aus-winterschlaf-in-bordeaux
In French, the original source: with several pictures
https://actu-aero.fr/2021/05/18/etihad-destockage-dun-premier-a350-1000-depuis-bordeaux-samedi/
Please note: The Airbus world is Gemany and France (+ Spain, Canada/Montreal). And yes, there is also UK, but they do not build the planes, they build the wings. So learn to use the implemented Google Translator for Airbus related news.

It seems that Etihad will be dropping LAX! LAX is not available for reservations after May 2022.

xwb777 wrote:

It seems that Etihad will be dropping LAX! LAX is not available for reservations after May 2022.

No LAX means no real need for 777X.
Everything else can be reached with A350, 789, 781.

A330Inter wrote:

xwb777 wrote:

It seems that Etihad will be dropping LAX! LAX is not available for reservations after May 2022.

No LAX means no real need for 777X.
Everything else can be reached with A350, 789, 781.

777-9 was not for LAX.

777-8 maybe. But they only ordered 8. And it’s becoming obvious that has way more interest in a freighter version.

35K could do LAX though, comfortably. As can 789

xwb777 wrote:

It seems that Etihad will be dropping LAX! LAX is not available for reservations after May 2022.

With Etihad and AA now back to normal term again, it MIGHT be more feasible for Etihad to funnel passengers in JFK/ORD to LAX via AA.

Opus99 wrote:

A330Inter wrote:

xwb777 wrote:

It seems that Etihad will be dropping LAX! LAX is not available for reservations after May 2022.

No LAX means no real need for 777X.
Everything else can be reached with A350, 789, 781.

777-9 was not for LAX.

777-8 maybe. But they only ordered 8. And it’s becoming obvious that has way more interest in a freighter version.

35K could do LAX though, comfortably. As can 789

-8 was for LAX indeed and only for it, SFO and GRU if that was ever in the cards again. But now it's clear, no need.
I don't see the point of 777-9 with the 35K on property, one was ferried to AUH last week I think that's a sign they're taking them.

I know the 789 has a significant payload restriction on LAX route that doesn't make it viable, can 35K operate the route with full payload?

A330Inter wrote:

Opus99 wrote:

A330Inter wrote:

No LAX means no real need for 777X.
Everything else can be reached with A350, 789, 781.

777-9 was not for LAX.

777-8 maybe. But they only ordered 8. And it’s becoming obvious that has way more interest in a freighter version.

35K could do LAX though, comfortably. As can 789

-8 was for LAX indeed and only for it, SFO and GRU if that was ever in the cards again. But now it's clear, no need.
I don't see the point of 777-9 with the 35K on property, one was ferried to AUH last week I think that's a sign they're taking them.

I know the 789 has a significant payload restriction on LAX route that doesn't make it viable, can 35K operate the route with full payload?

Well EY does. Though only 6 for high capacity, high premium routes such as LHR,CDG etc.

350 still expected to enter service in 2023. Apparently they still do not have pilots trained to operate the aircraft.

Another A380 - A6-APH moved to Teruel


https://simpleflying.com/wp-content/upl ... A6-APH.png

Etihad Second A350-1000 has arrived AUH

Very bad news coming from Midfield, the EY’s hub in Abū Dhabi.

DUBAI, July 5 (Reuters) - Abu Dhabi's state-owned airport operator has cancelled a contract with a consortium which was building a 10.8 billion dirham ($2.94 billion) terminal at the emirate's main airport, four sources familiar with the matter told Reuters.

The group, which comprises United Arab Emirates-based Arabtec, Turkey's TAV Insaat and Athens-based Consolidated Contractors Company (CCC), were awarded the contract in 2012 to build the Midfield Terminal Building at Abu Dhabi International Airport.

One of the sources said state-owned Abu Dhabi Airports cancelled the contract after the group over ran project costs.

Abu Dhabi Airports and TAV Insaat declined comment. Arabtec, which filed for liquidation in January, and CCC representatives could not be reached for comment.

The terminal, which is still under construction and was once scheduled to open in 2017, has been plagued by years of delays. Abu Dhabi Airports in 2019 said that construction of the new terminal was 97.6% complete.

Two sources said Abu Dhabi-headquartered Trojan had been awarded the contract to finish the terminal's construction.

Trojan did not respond to a request for comment.

The new 700,000 square metre terminal was supposed to support the growth of Abu Dhabi's Etihad Airways. When the project was launched, the state-owned airline was seeking to build a major transit hub in the UAE capital, but it has restructured and scaled back its ambitions since then.

The contract cancellation also comes amid a deep pandemic-driven recession in the travel industry that is forecast to take years to recover.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-ea ... 021-07-05/

Etihad reports an operating loss of $0.4b in H1 2021.

One Million pax carried & a load factor of only 24.9%

Slow recovery & strong cargo ops

Source: https://www.arabianaerospace.aero/etiha ... iness.html

July was Etihad’s best month since a year and a half

https://www-thenationalnews-com.cdn.amp ... utType=amp

Etihad’s fifth A350-1000 has arrived into Abu Dhabi for cabin refurbishment and storage.