Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
panam330
Posts: 2208
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:58 am

Re: Upstate New York Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:26 am

SYRAVGEEK wrote:
The FL-WN merger was 6 years ago, a lots changed since 2014. SYR has been going through TREMENDOUS growth. We're getting 2 new amazon facilities, we have a world renowned university, and we reacieve passengers from as far as Canada and Scranton. I will say that Rochester does have a bigger market, but SYR has been catching up. It's also important to note that BOTH SW & FL served SYR with good load factors (FL was in the late 90's and SW was Mid-2000's). SYR proved that they have a large market for Low Cost Airlines that fly to Vacation destinations with G4 and F9 jumping in.


The WN/FL merger was announced in 2010 and closed on May 2, 2011 - almost 10 years ago. ROC service switched from FL to WN on April 14, 2012 as FL was slowly merged into WN for the following 2 years.
Secondly, if by SW you mean WN, they have never served SYR. And neither had FL. ValuJet/J7 did, however, but had left
Syracuse before being folded into AirTran in 1999.
 
BUFJACK10
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:09 pm

Re: Upstate New York Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:18 am

panam330 wrote:
SYRAVGEEK wrote:
The FL-WN merger was 6 years ago, a lots changed since 2014. SYR has been going through TREMENDOUS growth. We're getting 2 new amazon facilities, we have a world renowned university, and we reacieve passengers from as far as Canada and Scranton. I will say that Rochester does have a bigger market, but SYR has been catching up. It's also important to note that BOTH SW & FL served SYR with good load factors (FL was in the late 90's and SW was Mid-2000's). SYR proved that they have a large market for Low Cost Airlines that fly to Vacation destinations with G4 and F9 jumping in.


The WN/FL merger was announced in 2010 and closed on May 2, 2011 - almost 10 years ago. ROC service switched from FL to WN on April 14, 2012 as FL was slowly merged into WN for the following 2 years.
Secondly, if by SW you mean WN, they have never served SYR. And neither had FL. ValuJet/J7 did, however, but had left
Syracuse before being folded into AirTran in 1999.


Valujet never served SYR or any other upstate NY airport. AirTran, however did as far back as 1995 with leisure flights to Orlando prior to merging with Valujet. Checking departed flights, I couldn’t find anything indicating Valujet had any presence in Upstate. AirTran and Valujet merged with AirTran focusing on ATL, MCO and to some extent BWI.
AA AK AL AQ AS B6 CO DL EA FL F9 HP KN NY MO NW PA PE PI RC QX TW UA UR US WN AF AN AO CS IB OA TR VS
A300 A319 A320 BAE146 BAC111 DC8 DC9 DC10 MD80 707 717 727 737 747 757 767 777 787 L10 F27 F28 F100 ERJ CRJ SE-210 SSC B1900 ATR42 ATR72 DH8 E120 SWM
 
User avatar
cosyr
Posts: 1610
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:23 pm

Re: Upstate New York Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:34 pm

BUFJACK10 wrote:
panam330 wrote:
SYRAVGEEK wrote:
The FL-WN merger was 6 years ago, a lots changed since 2014. SYR has been going through TREMENDOUS growth. We're getting 2 new amazon facilities, we have a world renowned university, and we reacieve passengers from as far as Canada and Scranton. I will say that Rochester does have a bigger market, but SYR has been catching up. It's also important to note that BOTH SW & FL served SYR with good load factors (FL was in the late 90's and SW was Mid-2000's). SYR proved that they have a large market for Low Cost Airlines that fly to Vacation destinations with G4 and F9 jumping in.


The WN/FL merger was announced in 2010 and closed on May 2, 2011 - almost 10 years ago. ROC service switched from FL to WN on April 14, 2012 as FL was slowly merged into WN for the following 2 years.
Secondly, if by SW you mean WN, they have never served SYR. And neither had FL. ValuJet/J7 did, however, but had left
Syracuse before being folded into AirTran in 1999.


Valujet never served SYR or any other upstate NY airport. AirTran, however did as far back as 1995 with leisure flights to Orlando prior to merging with Valujet. Checking departed flights, I couldn’t find anything indicating Valujet had any presence in Upstate. AirTran and Valujet merged with AirTran focusing on ATL, MCO and to some extent BWI.

Valujet never served upstate. The confusion is over the old AirTran that flew 732's to SYR and a few other upstate cities, which Valujet merged with. There were two arms of that airline. AirTran Airways (732's) and AirTran Airlines (former Valujet). Airways dropped SYR when the two merged completely. Airlines had started service to BUF and ROC, which stayed. Once they finally merged, even though it was AirTran Airlines (former Valujet) that was the surviving airline, they adopted the AirTran Airways name (and maybe operating certificate?), but all the 732's were dropped. The MCO hub remained, but without SYR.

WN never served SYR.
 
Roots1
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 7:38 am

Re: Upstate New York Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:08 am

In seeing the news American is adding/extending Saturday MIA-ROC, I'm surprised they haven't added DFW to ROC/SYR/ALB yet, given the domestic growth both pre and post-Covid at DFW. I know ROC and SYR were tried previously with CRJ700's, before the days of E-175's in the Eagle fleet. Seems like all three would be perfect Envoy E175 routes.
 
User avatar
cosyr
Posts: 1610
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:23 pm

Re: Upstate New York Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:04 pm

Roots1 wrote:
In seeing the news American is adding/extending Saturday MIA-ROC, I'm surprised they haven't added DFW to ROC/SYR/ALB yet, given the domestic growth both pre and post-Covid at DFW. I know ROC and SYR were tried previously with CRJ700's, before the days of E-175's in the Eagle fleet. Seems like all three would be perfect Envoy E175 routes.

Certainly better than the M80's that couldn't make them work in the 90/00's.
 
SYRAVGEEK
Posts: 232
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:08 pm

Re: Upstate New York Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:52 pm

Roots1 wrote:
In seeing the news American is adding/extending Saturday MIA-ROC, I'm surprised they haven't added DFW to ROC/SYR/ALB yet, given the domestic growth both pre and post-Covid at DFW. I know ROC and SYR were tried previously with CRJ700's, before the days of E-175's in the Eagle fleet. Seems like all three would be perfect Envoy E175 routes.

DFW/DAL service is something I’d love to see, I’d also love to see if AA is gonna bring back SYR-MIA year round, from what I’ve seen the flight was full on an A321 so an E175 would do just fine. Iirc there was some speculation about AA possibly adding DFW-ALB, however due to COVID I believe the plans were scrapped. We should definitely keep a close eye on Breeze and Avelo and this new reincarnation of ViaAir, Upstate New York is definitely in their sights and if everyone plays their cards right maybe one of these routes will become a reality!
IG: @315_aviation
Vitamin C is Spanish for Vitamin Yes
 
jplatts
Posts: 4525
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Upstate New York Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:21 am

SYRAVGEEK wrote:
Roots1 wrote:
In seeing the news American is adding/extending Saturday MIA-ROC, I'm surprised they haven't added DFW to ROC/SYR/ALB yet, given the domestic growth both pre and post-Covid at DFW. I know ROC and SYR were tried previously with CRJ700's, before the days of E-175's in the Eagle fleet. Seems like all three would be perfect Envoy E175 routes.

DFW/DAL service is something I’d love to see, I’d also love to see if AA is gonna bring back SYR-MIA year round, from what I’ve seen the flight was full on an A321 so an E175 would do just fine. Iirc there was some speculation about AA possibly adding DFW-ALB, however due to COVID I believe the plans were scrapped.


I probably do not ever expect WN to ever add nonstop service to DAL from ROC, SYR, or ALB anytime soon, even if AA adds DFW-ROC/SYR/ALB nonstop service, since
(a) there are other markets already served by WN that are not currently served nonstop from DAL and that have stronger demand to the DFW/DAL market than ROC, SYR, or ALB,
(b) there wasn't a significant amount of passengers connecting to DAL from ROC or ALB on WN, even after repeal of the Wright Amendment but prior to the COVID-19 pandemic, and
(c) WN still offering 1-stop connecting options to ROC and ALB from DAL.

WN also does not need to serve DAL from markets in the Northeast that do not have any nonstop service to DFW to remain competitive, especially with WN still offering 1-stop connecting service or nonstop service to DAL from almost all of the contiguous U.S. airports that are served by WN.

AA also would not face any competition from WN on the DFW-SYR route with WN not currently serving SYR, but that would change if WN enters the SYR market as WN would be offering 1-stop connecting service to DAL from SYR (but unlikely to add SYR-DAL nonstop service anytime soon) if WN adds service to SYR.
 
ROCDLFAN
Posts: 276
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 2:43 am

Re: Upstate New York Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:11 am

SYRAVGEEK wrote:
Roots1 wrote:
In seeing the news American is adding/extending Saturday MIA-ROC, I'm surprised they haven't added DFW to ROC/SYR/ALB yet, given the domestic growth both pre and post-Covid at DFW. I know ROC and SYR were tried previously with CRJ700's, before the days of E-175's in the Eagle fleet. Seems like all three would be perfect Envoy E175 routes.

DFW/DAL service is something I’d love to see, I’d also love to see if AA is gonna bring back SYR-MIA year round, from what I’ve seen the flight was full on an A321 so an E175 would do just fine. Iirc there was some speculation about AA possibly adding DFW-ALB, however due to COVID I believe the plans were scrapped. We should definitely keep a close eye on Breeze and Avelo and this new reincarnation of ViaAir, Upstate New York is definitely in their sights and if everyone plays their cards right maybe one of these routes will become a reality!


Keep in mind, with SYR-MIA, that was a one off flight for February break that was heavily promoted by SYR. The Saturday outbound was full, the inbound the following Saturday was completely full, but the flights in opposite directions that weren’t carrying vacationers traveling for break were completely empty. I’d say ROC received the extension because they’ve consistently supported the MIA flight since it was launched in November.
"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee."
 
ROCDLFAN
Posts: 276
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 2:43 am

Re: Upstate New York Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:13 am

UA pushed out their June schedule yesterday, and it looks like ROC and BUF are getting mainline back with a morning Airbus to ORD, and SYR is getting their DEN flight back as well.
"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee."
 
User avatar
albspotter
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:13 am

Re: Upstate New York Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:26 am

So United is once again showing 2x CRJ-550 to ALB-ORD. This is giving me little hope ALB will ever get United mainline again.
 
SYRAVGEEK
Posts: 232
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:08 pm

Re: Upstate New York Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:46 am

ROCDLFAN wrote:
UA pushed out their June schedule yesterday, and it looks like ROC and BUF are getting mainline back with a morning Airbus to ORD, and SYR is getting their DEN flight back as well.

Hope this doesn’t get pushed back… Again
IG: @315_aviation
Vitamin C is Spanish for Vitamin Yes
 
ROCDLFAN
Posts: 276
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 2:43 am

Re: Upstate New York Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:13 am

AA has pushed out their June schedule, and by far they are the closest carrier to be inching back towards pre-COVID levels in BUF/ROC/SYR. Here’s where things stand for a mid-week day in June:

BUF:
2X Daily DFW (319, E75)
2X Daily DCA (2X E75)
3X Daily CLT (319, 320, E75)
4X Daily PHL (2X ER4, 2X E75)
4X Daily ORD (3X E75, ER4)
Total flights per day (average) 15
Total seats per day (average) 1,240

ROC
1X Daily DCA (E75)
3X Daily BOS (ER4) *route resumption
3X Daily ORD (2X CR7, ER4)
3X Daily PHL (CR9, CR7, ER4)
4X Daily CLT (2X CR9, E75, ER4)
1X Weekly MIA (E75)
Total flights per day (average) 14 (+1 Saturday)
Total seats per day (average) 954

SYR
1X Daily BOS (ER4) *route resumption
2X Daily DCA (E75)
3X Daily ORD (2X E75, ER4)
4X Daily PHL (3X ER4, CR9)
4X Daily CLT (2X 319, 738, CR9)
Total flights per day (average) 14
Total seats per day (average) 1,046
"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee."
 
SYRAVGEEK
Posts: 232
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:08 pm

Re: Upstate New York Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:18 pm

ROCDLFAN wrote:
SYRAVGEEK wrote:
Roots1 wrote:
In seeing the news American is adding/extending Saturday MIA-ROC, I'm surprised they haven't added DFW to ROC/SYR/ALB yet, given the domestic growth both pre and post-Covid at DFW. I know ROC and SYR were tried previously with CRJ700's, before the days of E-175's in the Eagle fleet. Seems like all three would be perfect Envoy E175 routes.

DFW/DAL service is something I’d love to see, I’d also love to see if AA is gonna bring back SYR-MIA year round, from what I’ve seen the flight was full on an A321 so an E175 would do just fine. Iirc there was some speculation about AA possibly adding DFW-ALB, however due to COVID I believe the plans were scrapped. We should definitely keep a close eye on Breeze and Avelo and this new reincarnation of ViaAir, Upstate New York is definitely in their sights and if everyone plays their cards right maybe one of these routes will become a reality!


Keep in mind, with SYR-MIA, that was a one off flight for February break that was heavily promoted by SYR. The Saturday outbound was full, the inbound the following Saturday was completely full, but the flights in opposite directions that weren’t carrying vacationers traveling for break were completely empty. I’d say ROC received the extension because they’ve consistently supported the MIA flight since it was launched in November.

I believe they were empty because they were non-rev repos, could be wrong though.
IG: @315_aviation
Vitamin C is Spanish for Vitamin Yes
 
ROCDLFAN
Posts: 276
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 2:43 am

Re: Upstate New York Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:21 pm

SYRAVGEEK wrote:
ROCDLFAN wrote:
SYRAVGEEK wrote:
DFW/DAL service is something I’d love to see, I’d also love to see if AA is gonna bring back SYR-MIA year round, from what I’ve seen the flight was full on an A321 so an E175 would do just fine. Iirc there was some speculation about AA possibly adding DFW-ALB, however due to COVID I believe the plans were scrapped. We should definitely keep a close eye on Breeze and Avelo and this new reincarnation of ViaAir, Upstate New York is definitely in their sights and if everyone plays their cards right maybe one of these routes will become a reality!


Keep in mind, with SYR-MIA, that was a one off flight for February break that was heavily promoted by SYR. The Saturday outbound was full, the inbound the following Saturday was completely full, but the flights in opposite directions that weren’t carrying vacationers traveling for break were completely empty. I’d say ROC received the extension because they’ve consistently supported the MIA flight since it was launched in November.

I believe they were empty because they were non-rev repos, could be wrong though.


They were revenue flights - I have the screenshots from AA.com somewhere on my hard drive
"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee."
 
BatonOps
Posts: 731
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:00 am

Re: Upstate New York Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:54 pm

UA resumes ITH service on June 3rd with two daily CRJ-200 to IAD
 
User avatar
albspotter
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:13 am

Re: Upstate New York Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:17 am

ROCDLFAN wrote:
AA has pushed out their June schedule, and by far they are the closest carrier to be inching back towards pre-COVID levels in BUF/ROC/SYR. Here’s where things stand for a mid-week day in June:

BUF:
2X Daily DFW (319, E75)
2X Daily DCA (2X E75)
3X Daily CLT (319, 320, E75)
4X Daily PHL (2X ER4, 2X E75)
4X Daily ORD (3X E75, ER4)
Total flights per day (average) 15
Total seats per day (average) 1,240

ROC
1X Daily DCA (E75)
3X Daily BOS (ER4) *route resumption
3X Daily ORD (2X CR7, ER4)
3X Daily PHL (CR9, CR7, ER4)
4X Daily CLT (2X CR9, E75, ER4)
1X Weekly MIA (E75)
Total flights per day (average) 14 (+1 Saturday)
Total seats per day (average) 954

SYR
1X Daily BOS (ER4) *route resumption
2X Daily DCA (E75)
3X Daily ORD (2X E75, ER4)
4X Daily PHL (3X ER4, CR9)
4X Daily CLT (2X 319, 738, CR9)
Total flights per day (average) 14
Total seats per day (average) 1,046


Can you add ALB to this list please?
 
User avatar
albspotter
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:13 am

ALB routes/news updates - 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:40 pm

I have setup a forum for route news and updates for Albany International airport in Albany, New York. Please add your comments down below.
 
User avatar
cosyr
Posts: 1610
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:23 pm

Re: ALB routes/news updates - 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:00 pm

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1456175 Already exists. I think it would be helpful to those of us in Upstate to keep discussion in one place.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2593
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: ALB routes/news updates - 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:29 pm

cosyr wrote:
https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1456175 Already exists. I think it would be helpful to those of us in Upstate to keep discussion in one place.

Agreed-however that thread seems to be very much focused on Western Tier airports (SYR/ROC/BUF) rather than ALB (or any other upstate airport for that matter).
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744ER, 752, 753, 762, 763ER, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
User avatar
FiscAutTecGarte
Posts: 355
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:40 pm

Re: Upstate New York Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:57 pm

What is the status of RME (Rome)? They were scheduled to get a new terminal a few years back, that even had Customs/Immigration facilities...
UCA (Utica) hasn't had scheduled air service for many years. Always odd that Oneida County was operating so many somewhat large airports for small communities. All goes back to the time when NY State was a smoke stack industry powerhouse....

ITH (Ithaca) is another fascinating airport with scheduled service from American, Delta and United. Their catchment would be finger lakes, cornell, etc...
learning never stops...

FischAutoTechGarten is the full handle and it reflects my interest. It's abbreviated to fit A.net short usernames.
 
User avatar
FiscAutTecGarte
Posts: 355
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:40 pm

Re: Upstate New York Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:01 pm

Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
dekema2 wrote:
maximairways wrote:
Buffalo airport posted some pictures of their construction progress on instagram https://www.instagram.com/p/CJeY34lBefd/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link.

It looks like they are installing automated glass exit lanes.


I want to see a pier/wing added to the southeast, parallel to the current east wing.


I dont see that happening anytime soon due to covid.


I flew into and out of Buffalo last week on business (Mon/Wed). When I departed on Wednesday (4/21 2pm..and yes it was snowing), there were just 7 scheduled flights remaining for the day.... for 26 gates. I suspect Covid and Niagara Falls off season are primary reasons for the low numbers?
learning never stops...

FischAutoTechGarten is the full handle and it reflects my interest. It's abbreviated to fit A.net short usernames.
 
User avatar
albspotter
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:13 am

Re: ALB routes/news updates - 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:55 pm

cosyr wrote:
https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1456175 Already exists. I think it would be helpful to those of us in Upstate to keep discussion in one place.


I agree with you there. But 90% of the conversations they have are about SYR/ROC/BUF. Whenever I try to say something about ALB they ignore me. That's why I started one for ALB myself.
 
ROCDLFAN
Posts: 276
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 2:43 am

Re: Upstate New York Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:18 pm

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
dekema2 wrote:

I want to see a pier/wing added to the southeast, parallel to the current east wing.


I dont see that happening anytime soon due to covid.


I flew into and out of Buffalo last week on business (Mon/Wed). When I departed on Wednesday (4/21 2pm..and yes it was snowing), there were just 7 scheduled flights remaining for the day.... for 26 gates. I suspect Covid and Niagara Falls off season are primary reasons for the low numbers?


1 word: Canada. Until the border opens back up, BUF will continue to lag behind in recovery compared to other NY airports due to their dependence on Canadians.
"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee."
 
User avatar
FiscAutTecGarte
Posts: 355
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:40 pm

Re: ALB routes/news updates - 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:18 pm

I asked a few questions about Rome, Utica, Ithaca, Lake Placid, Saranac Lake (Adirondack) today. Maybe the conversations will expand beyond Syracuse, Rochester and Buffalo.
learning never stops...

FischAutoTechGarten is the full handle and it reflects my interest. It's abbreviated to fit A.net short usernames.
 
User avatar
FiscAutTecGarte
Posts: 355
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:40 pm

Re: Upstate New York Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:26 pm

As a younger man when I lived in Upstate NY, I shared a camp north of Schroon Lake (North Hudson/Blue Ridge Falls). Was always surprised there was no real air service to any Adirondack regions. Lake Placid (LKP) is just GenAv.

However, I learned that Saranac Lake (SLK - Adirondack Regional Airport) actually has scheduled service to Boston by Cape Air. I wonder if that is the tie-in between the hospital located in Saranc Lake (instrumental in researching Tuberculosis) and those in Boston. It's still an important life-line for the entire Adirondack Region. Back to Aviation.... they are serviced by Cape Air.... Any chance we'd see the Tecname P2012 Traveller operating on that route?
learning never stops...

FischAutoTechGarten is the full handle and it reflects my interest. It's abbreviated to fit A.net short usernames.
 
User avatar
cosyr
Posts: 1610
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:23 pm

Re: Upstate New York Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:11 pm

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
As a younger man when I lived in Upstate NY, I shared a camp north of Schroon Lake (North Hudson/Blue Ridge Falls). Was always surprised there was no real air service to any Adirondack regions. Lake Placid (LKP) is just GenAv.

However, I learned that Saranac Lake (SLK - Adirondack Regional Airport) actually has scheduled service to Boston by Cape Air. I wonder if that is the tie-in between the hospital located in Saranc Lake (instrumental in researching Tuberculosis) and those in Boston. It's still an important life-line for the entire Adirondack Region. Back to Aviation.... they are serviced by Cape Air.... Any chance we'd see the Tecname P2012 Traveller operating on that route?

There's a lot of holes in the network nationwide that I think would be served well by going back in time. It seems strange to me that in the 80's there was service to tiny airports from local airports like ALB/SYR, etc. on Beech 99's, Fairchild Merlins and others, but now that major airlines have so many passengers that they're even debating the usefulness of planes under 70 seats, that some kind of air taxi service on 10-19 seat aircraft couldn't return to fill that gap.

I would love to see a Cape Air type airline bring back what made up airlines like Mohawk, Empire or the original CommutAir ALB service. With the Cessna SkyCourier, and the Tecnam P2012, we can't blame the lack of aircraft anymore. It would not only help some Adirondack service, but could also connect ALB to BUF/BGM/ELM, and cities like SYR/ROC/BUF to have more connections to NYC or BOS.
 
SyracuseAvGeek
Posts: 754
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:37 pm

Re: Upstate New York Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:25 pm

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
As a younger man when I lived in Upstate NY, I shared a camp north of Schroon Lake (North Hudson/Blue Ridge Falls). Was always surprised there was no real air service to any Adirondack regions. Lake Placid (LKP) is just GenAv.

However, I learned that Saranac Lake (SLK - Adirondack Regional Airport) actually has scheduled service to Boston by Cape Air. I wonder if that is the tie-in between the hospital located in Saranc Lake (instrumental in researching Tuberculosis) and those in Boston. It's still an important life-line for the entire Adirondack Region. Back to Aviation.... they are serviced by Cape Air.... Any chance we'd see the Tecname P2012 Traveller operating on that route?



They will bring it to that route eventually. SLK is part of the Essential Air Service program.
"I haven't been everywhere yet, but it's on my list."
 
MO11
Posts: 1776
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Upstate New York Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:31 pm

cosyr wrote:

I would love to see a Cape Air type airline bring back what made up airlines like Mohawk, Empire or the original CommutAir ALB service. With the Cessna SkyCourier, and the Tecnam P2012, we can't blame the lack of aircraft anymore.


You might love to see it, but those days are long over. And the SkyCourier will be way too expensive to operate as a 9-seat airplane.
 
User avatar
YQBexYHZBGM
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 3:11 pm

Re: Upstate New York Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:24 pm

I spotted this tidbit in the PIT Update Discussion - 2021 thread (which I usually don't follow closely).
https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1456177&f=3#p22758221

Since it involves JHW, I figured it would be worthwhile to cross-pollinate it here to generate some discussion from the Upstate NY crowd.

flyPIT wrote:
Boutique Air's EAS application to restore service to JHW has been declined. I'm kinda surprised by this considering how much money the local Jamestown business community put up to support the service:
https://www.post-journal.com/news/page- ... overnment/


My opinion:
Routes like JHW-PIT (or even JHW-CLE) worked when PIT and CLE were hubs. Now that they no longer are, I'm not certain how viable the route would be. Similarly, I should think IAD would be a better option than BWI; while WN has a strong presence at BWI, I think access to UA's network via their IAD hub would be a bigger draw. Reality is, without access to onward connections via one or more of the major carriers' regional hubs -- which, based on JHW's geography, could also include DTW, PHL, EWR -- I'd be concerned about the ability to attract passengers. I think AA/Eagle's ART-PHL route (previously ORD) offers a good comparison of what JHW could expect.
 
dolphinflyer
Posts: 341
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 9:57 pm

Re: ALB routes/news updates - 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:56 pm

Bravo for giving ALB its own stage!
 
UPNYGuy
Posts: 341
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:14 pm

Re: ALB routes/news updates - 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:25 pm

I am hoping for more ULCC action.
 
TucsonDave
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:54 pm

Re: ALB routes/news updates - 2021

Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:51 pm

USAirALB wrote:
cosyr wrote:
https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1456175 Already exists. I think it would be helpful to those of us in Upstate to keep discussion in one place.

Sorry to nitpick, but SYR is not in Western NY. It is proudly in Central NY. That said, I've always enjoyed flying in and out of ALB and I do see your point.
 
User avatar
cosyr
Posts: 1610
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:23 pm

Re: ALB routes/news updates - 2021

Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:27 am

albspotter wrote:
cosyr wrote:
https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1456175 Already exists. I think it would be helpful to those of us in Upstate to keep discussion in one place.


I agree with you there. But 90% of the conversations they have are about SYR/ROC/BUF. Whenever I try to say something about ALB they ignore me. That's why I started one for ALB myself.

I would hope you would contribute about ALB to that other thread, because ALB is part of upstate, and living in the Utica area, I am as interested in ALB news, as I am SYR, and more so than ROC/BUF. I find it helpful that all these airports are in one thread, because even with all airports included (and that means BGM, ELM, ITH, PBG, OGS, MSS as well) there's still only activity on that discussion once every few weeks. I would hope when there's talk about what WN is doing in ROC, it also relates to what WN is doing in ALB.
 
User avatar
SQ22
Moderator
Posts: 2289
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:29 am

Re: ALB routes/news updates - 2021

Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:21 pm

albspotter wrote:
I have setup a forum for route news and updates for Albany International airport in Albany, New York. Please add your comments down below.


I have merged the thread into the Upstate New York Aviation Thread. I hope you can continue your discussion about Albany here. Please give it some time and of course some effort is required to gain the attention of other (interested) users.

In case you get the impression a separate thread is justified, please write a mail to [email protected] and we can have a look at it.
 
User avatar
YQBexYHZBGM
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 3:11 pm

Re: ALB routes/news updates - 2021

Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:34 pm

cosyr wrote:
...
even with all airports included (and that means BGM, ELM, ITH, PBG, OGS, MSS as well) there's still only activity on that discussion once every few weeks. ...

Show some love for PBG and ART too ;) and condolences to UCA (Oneida County Airport, not the city) :tombstone:

Respect to all Upstate, from a former resident of the Southern Tier hinterland between BGM and ELM.
 
Elliott777
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2019 3:26 am

Re: ALB routes/news updates - 2021

Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:40 pm

cosyr wrote:
albspotter wrote:
cosyr wrote:
https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1456175 Already exists. I think it would be helpful to those of us in Upstate to keep discussion in one place.


I agree with you there. But 90% of the conversations they have are about SYR/ROC/BUF. Whenever I try to say something about ALB they ignore me. That's why I started one for ALB myself.

I would hope you would contribute about ALB to that other thread, because ALB is part of upstate, and living in the Utica area, I am as interested in ALB news, as I am SYR, and more so than ROC/BUF. I find it helpful that all these airports are in one thread, because even with all airports included (and that means BGM, ELM, ITH, PBG, OGS, MSS as well) there's still only activity on that discussion once every few weeks. I would hope when there's talk about what WN is doing in ROC, it also relates to what WN is doing in ALB.


sorry, but that's just not true, ROC currently only has a couple flights a day on WN to BWI while ALB currently has about 6-8 flights a day to BWI, MDW, TPA, and MCO, and it would be nice if more upstate airports were talked about because I only see stuff about ROC/BUF/SYR which is only about 30% of the upstate airports, so if it's gonna be an upstate airports thread at least include all if not most of the actual upstate airports.
 
SyracuseAvGeek
Posts: 754
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:37 pm

Re: ALB routes/news updates - 2021

Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:56 pm

Elliott777 wrote:
cosyr wrote:
albspotter wrote:

I agree with you there. But 90% of the conversations they have are about SYR/ROC/BUF. Whenever I try to say something about ALB they ignore me. That's why I started one for ALB myself.

I would hope you would contribute about ALB to that other thread, because ALB is part of upstate, and living in the Utica area, I am as interested in ALB news, as I am SYR, and more so than ROC/BUF. I find it helpful that all these airports are in one thread, because even with all airports included (and that means BGM, ELM, ITH, PBG, OGS, MSS as well) there's still only activity on that discussion once every few weeks. I would hope when there's talk about what WN is doing in ROC, it also relates to what WN is doing in ALB.


sorry, but that's just not true, ROC currently only has a couple flights a day on WN to BWI while ALB currently has about 6-8 flights a day to BWI, MDW, TPA, and MCO, and it would be nice if more upstate airports were talked about because I only see stuff about ROC/BUF/SYR which is only about 30% of the upstate airports, so if it's gonna be an upstate airports thread at least include all if not most of the actual upstate airports.


I think all of this arguing is pointless, yes we talk about a few airports more than others. But that’s because they have more news to report on. When Norwegian diverted a plane to Albany a couple years ago and they mentioned Albany as a possible Max destination, that’s all people talked about for a while.

Smaller airports don’t have as much news as air service doesn’t change that often in the southern tier and EAS airports in north country. But it’s pointless to say that Albany needs a separate chat because it’s not talked about enough.

We all support upstate NY and can agree on one thing... SWF is not in Upstate NY :lol:
"I haven't been everywhere yet, but it's on my list."
 
Buffalomatt1027
Posts: 454
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:02 am

Re: Upstate New York Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:15 pm

ROCDLFAN wrote:
FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
Buffalomatt1027 wrote:

I dont see that happening anytime soon due to covid.


I flew into and out of Buffalo last week on business (Mon/Wed). When I departed on Wednesday (4/21 2pm..and yes it was snowing), there were just 7 scheduled flights remaining for the day.... for 26 gates. I suspect Covid and Niagara Falls off season are primary reasons for the low numbers?


1 word: Canada. Until the border opens back up, BUF will continue to lag behind in recovery compared to other NY airports due to their dependence on Canadians.



While I 100% with you about the boarder / canadians coming back to the Buffalo Airport. A buffalo news or some news article said that Canadians are flying to NYC or other American cities just to fly back into Buffalo and do what ever. So I found that interesting.

https://www.wivb.com/news/local-news/er ... -loophole/
 
mjgbtv
Posts: 1106
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:18 am

Re: Upstate New York Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:59 pm

Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
ROCDLFAN wrote:
FiscAutTecGarte wrote:

I flew into and out of Buffalo last week on business (Mon/Wed). When I departed on Wednesday (4/21 2pm..and yes it was snowing), there were just 7 scheduled flights remaining for the day.... for 26 gates. I suspect Covid and Niagara Falls off season are primary reasons for the low numbers?


1 word: Canada. Until the border opens back up, BUF will continue to lag behind in recovery compared to other NY airports due to their dependence on Canadians.



While I 100% with you about the boarder / canadians coming back to the Buffalo Airport. A buffalo news or some news article said that Canadians are flying to NYC or other American cities just to fly back into Buffalo and do what ever. So I found that interesting.

https://www.wivb.com/news/local-news/er ... -loophole/


They are not flying into the US to go to Buffalo. It's people who were in the US, like spending the winter in Florida. Instead of flying back into Canada they are flying to Buffalo and driving into Canada.
 
SYRAVGEEK
Posts: 232
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:08 pm

Re: Upstate New York Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:49 pm

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
What is the status of RME (Rome)? They were scheduled to get a new terminal a few years back, that even had Customs/Immigration facilities...
UCA (Utica) hasn't had scheduled air service for many years. Always odd that Oneida County was operating so many somewhat large airports for small communities. All goes back to the time when NY State was a smoke stack industry powerhouse....

ITH (Ithaca) is another fascinating airport with scheduled service from American, Delta and United. Their catchment would be finger lakes, cornell, etc...

RME did get a new terminal, albeit a VERY small one. RME is also a mx facility for several airlines so it's not uncommon to see airliners there. ITH has AA and DL service, UA suspended their service back when COVID started. Oddly enough AA flies ITH-CLT which replaced ITH-PHL, considering how much of an impact ITH-PHL had on their airport, it would at least make sense to have a daily ITH-CLT and a daily ITH-PHL flight.
IG: @315_aviation
Vitamin C is Spanish for Vitamin Yes
 
SYRAVGEEK
Posts: 232
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:08 pm

Re: Upstate New York Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:51 pm

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
As a younger man when I lived in Upstate NY, I shared a camp north of Schroon Lake (North Hudson/Blue Ridge Falls). Was always surprised there was no real air service to any Adirondack regions. Lake Placid (LKP) is just GenAv.

However, I learned that Saranac Lake (SLK - Adirondack Regional Airport) actually has scheduled service to Boston by Cape Air. I wonder if that is the tie-in between the hospital located in Saranc Lake (instrumental in researching Tuberculosis) and those in Boston. It's still an important life-line for the entire Adirondack Region. Back to Aviation.... they are serviced by Cape Air.... Any chance we'd see the Tecname P2012 Traveller operating on that route?

SLK-BOS is an EAS route, I did see a P212 at the airport when they were just rolling them out, prob just a tour or demo flight
IG: @315_aviation
Vitamin C is Spanish for Vitamin Yes
 
SYRAVGEEK
Posts: 232
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:08 pm

Re: Upstate New York Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:57 pm

https://flybgm.com/bgmairshow.html
Binghamton Airshow is back on for 2021! Good to see BGM getting something other than CRJs & GenAv
IG: @315_aviation
Vitamin C is Spanish for Vitamin Yes
 
SyracuseAvGeek
Posts: 754
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:37 pm

Re: Upstate New York Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:57 pm

Ogdensburg is an EAS city, they used to have nonstops to both IAD and ORD but lost, ORD on April 1 when the new contract went into effect. Now it’s just IAD....

https://youtu.be/M7vrOJmRQvA

A video was posted of someone doing IAD-OGS-ORD. Only 3 people on the ORD flight so it makes sense that it was scrapped.
"I haven't been everywhere yet, but it's on my list."
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 6111
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Upstate New York Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:53 pm

ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
User avatar
cosyr
Posts: 1610
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:23 pm

Re: Upstate New York Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 29, 2021 3:26 pm

Midwestindy wrote:


Awesome news! Now Bring on UA to IAH, or at least bring back DEN (it is still on schedules later this year).

It is good to see AA (not the former US side) expanding in upstate NY. Before the merger, the world's largest airline had completely left ALB! Such a strange world.
 
User avatar
glideslope
Posts: 1627
Joined: Sun May 30, 2004 8:06 pm

Re: Upstate New York Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 29, 2021 3:33 pm

cosyr wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:


Awesome news! Now Bring on UA to IAH, or at least bring back DEN (it is still on schedules later this year).

It is good to see AA (not the former US side) expanding in upstate NY. Before the merger, the world's largest airline had completely left ALB! Such a strange world.


Indeed. Very good news to see AA expanding out of Hancock. I'm stoked.
"To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
MO11
Posts: 1776
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Upstate New York Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:08 pm

SYRAVGEEK wrote:
RME did get a new terminal, albeit a VERY small one. RME is also a mx facility for several airlines so it's not uncommon to see airliners there.


The MRO at Griffiss (Premier Aviation) closed its doors in 2018. It still operates at YRQ.
 
ROCDLFAN
Posts: 276
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 2:43 am

Re: ALB routes/news updates - 2021

Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:05 pm

SyracuseAvGeek wrote:
Elliott777 wrote:
cosyr wrote:
I would hope you would contribute about ALB to that other thread, because ALB is part of upstate, and living in the Utica area, I am as interested in ALB news, as I am SYR, and more so than ROC/BUF. I find it helpful that all these airports are in one thread, because even with all airports included (and that means BGM, ELM, ITH, PBG, OGS, MSS as well) there's still only activity on that discussion once every few weeks. I would hope when there's talk about what WN is doing in ROC, it also relates to what WN is doing in ALB.


sorry, but that's just not true, ROC currently only has a couple flights a day on WN to BWI while ALB currently has about 6-8 flights a day to BWI, MDW, TPA, and MCO, and it would be nice if more upstate airports were talked about because I only see stuff about ROC/BUF/SYR which is only about 30% of the upstate airports, so if it's gonna be an upstate airports thread at least include all if not most of the actual upstate airports.


I think all of this arguing is pointless, yes we talk about a few airports more than others. But that’s because they have more news to report on. When Norwegian diverted a plane to Albany a couple years ago and they mentioned Albany as a possible Max destination, that’s all people talked about for a while.

Smaller airports don’t have as much news as air service doesn’t change that often in the southern tier and EAS airports in north country. But it’s pointless to say that Albany needs a separate chat because it’s not talked about enough.

We all support upstate NY and can agree on one thing... SWF is not in Upstate NY :lol:


Agreed. The arguing is becoming hysterical. Those who follow SYR, report on SYR. Those that follow ROC, report on ROC. Those that follow BUF, report on BUF. Those that follow ALB, report on ALB. Discussion on one particular airport is not just going to happen - you have to bring something to the table. But personally, me following ROC, I’m not going to know everything that’s happening in ALB. If you’re going to complain saying a city isn’t talked about enough, give the thread something to work with.

Also, FWIW, MCO and TPA are back for ROC weekends only as of 3 weeks ago.

And no, SWF is *NOT* upstate ;)
"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee."
 
ROCDLFAN
Posts: 276
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 2:43 am

Re: Upstate New York Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:13 pm

[twoid][/twoid]
cosyr wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:


Awesome news! Now Bring on UA to IAH, or at least bring back DEN (it is still on schedules later this year).

It is good to see AA (not the former US side) expanding in upstate NY. Before the merger, the world's largest airline had completely left ALB! Such a strange world.


Excellent news for SYR. Especially with DL axing MSP for all Upstate airports, any opportunity for westbound connectivity needs to be embraced.
"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee."
 
User avatar
FiscAutTecGarte
Posts: 355
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:40 pm

Re: Upstate New York Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:51 pm

SYRAVGEEK wrote:
RME did get a new terminal, albeit a VERY small one. RME is also a mx facility for several airlines so it's not uncommon to see airliners there.


My searching skills need work.. I haven't been able to find any photos of this new terminal... how many gates it has, etc... The Oneida county webpage for it is lacking information.
learning never stops...

FischAutoTechGarten is the full handle and it reflects my interest. It's abbreviated to fit A.net short usernames.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos