Upstate New York Aviation Thread - 2021

YQBexYHZBGM · Mon May 10, 2021 9:21 pm

SYRAVGEEK wrote:
I guess IAD-SYR is doing well, UA is doing some mainline flights on IAD-SYR this week. Albeit it for two days. I wonder why, E-145XR to A320/737 is a bit of a jump for a route that’s only flown once or twice a day.

Cargo capacity, perhaps?

aeroc · Thu May 13, 2021 1:35 am

DCA-ROCguy wrote:

In 1973, a DC-10 would not have used a jetway at ROC, as the first jetway was installed (by American!) in January 1977 after scheduled DC-10 services ended. So the widebody presumably used airstairs. I very barely remember seeing the one that went off the runway in I think the winter of 1972-1973, after it had been taken to the terminal. We went down to near the south end of 4-22 where it had gone off, and it had already been (perhaps towed?) to the terminal.

Jim

Very true. I forgot that the DC10 service and jetbridge dates never met each other. I wasn't around yet to witness passenger DC10 service in ROC only Fedex. I wish I could have seen it! What was the story behind the one that went off the runway? Was it Wx related or mechanical?

Did 707 and DC10 service ever overlap? Or even 707/DC10/BAC 111-400

*Edit* Although I can't find it....according to departedflights the 707 was around during the '69 and '74 schedules so it looks like the 707/DC10 could have been at the airport at the same time. The BAC was withdrawn from service in '72 and probably replaced with 727. So no go with DC10/BAC at the same time.

MO11 · Thu May 13, 2021 2:03 am

aeroc wrote:
DCA-ROCguy wrote:

In 1973, a DC-10 would not have used a jetway at ROC, as the first jetway was installed (by American!) in January 1977 after scheduled DC-10 services ended. So the widebody presumably used airstairs. I very barely remember seeing the one that went off the runway in I think the winter of 1972-1973, after it had been taken to the terminal. We went down to near the south end of 4-22 where it had gone off, and it had already been (perhaps towed?) to the terminal.

Jim

Very true. I forgot that the DC10 service and jetbridge dates never met each other. I wasn't around yet to witness passenger DC10 service in ROC only Fedex. I wish I could have seen it! What was the story behind the one that went off the runway? Was it Wx related or mechanical?

Did 707 and DC10 service ever overlap? Or even 707/DC10/BAC 111-400

*Edit* Although I can't find it....according to departedflights the 707 was around during the '69 and '74 schedules so it looks like the 707/DC10 could have been at the airport at the same time. The BAC was withdrawn from service in '72 and probably replaced with 727. So no go with DC10/BAC at the same time.

I left Rochester in 1974; AA definitely had a Jetway on Gate 3, if not Gates 2 & 3 by then. They could not go high enough for the DC-10. When it first came in to Rochester it parked nose-in to Gate 1 (it was a several hour morning layover). There were more flights later; I think Gate 3 was used with stairs.

DCA-ROCguy · Thu May 13, 2021 4:38 pm

An article from the Times-Union from Jan. 7, 1977 shows the first jetway being installed, at Gate 2, in 1977.

American's July 1, 1973 timetable shows four daily DC-10 departures: one each to ORD, CLE, LGA, and SYR. I was five years old. How I wish I could have flown on a DC-10 from my home airport! But the family travels at that time didn't allow it.

I think the DC-10 runway excursion was weather-related. The plane slid off at an angle. I have Gannett newspaper photos of the incident but I don't think they'd like me posting them.

My understanding is that DC-10 service at ROC ended in 1973 with the oil crisis.

Jim

cosyr · Thu May 13, 2021 5:21 pm

DCA-ROCguy wrote:
An article from the Times-Union from Jan. 7, 1977 shows the first jetway being installed, at Gate 2, in 1977.

American's July 1, 1973 timetable shows four daily DC-10 departures: one each to ORD, CLE, LGA, and SYR. I was five years old. How I wish I could have flown on a DC-10 from my home airport! But the family travels at that time didn't allow it.

I think the DC-10 runway excursion was weather-related. The plane slid off at an angle. I have Gannett newspaper photos of the incident but I don't think they'd like me posting them.

My understanding is that DC-10 service at ROC ended in 1973 with the oil crisis.

Jim

Man, would it have been fun to fly from ROC-SYR on a DC-10!

Buffalomatt1027 · Thu May 13, 2021 5:40 pm

Things are getting back to normal at BNIA in Buffalo

Jetblue - BUF - LA fight is back
American mainline is back for Charlotte
Frontier using mostly A321s flying to florida

Still not back to 100% but getting there.

SYRAVGEEK · Thu May 13, 2021 7:04 pm

Something to look for in the next month or two is the new Amazon facility in Syracuse (The BIG one). Since its supposed to be the 2nd largest in the world I would image air cargo would be affected. I know that they paved a new ramp at the cargo area (is hard to notice from afar) and I think that's where Amazon Air would go. I also know UPS does some stuff for Amazon, so possibly a UPS expansion?

Buffalomatt1027 · Mon May 17, 2021 6:18 pm

MO11 wrote:
I don't know the scope of the runway work. If either antenna had to be relocated and/or touchdown zone moved, then the ILS has to be recommissioned. The NOTAM says the approach lights, PAPI, VASI, and RVR will also be out until September 28. Maybe all of the ILS work will take place after the runway construction is complete.

https://syrairport.org/10-28-rehabilita ... %2C%202021.

ROCDLFAN · Thu May 20, 2021 1:31 am

F9 launches MCO tomorrow from ROC and I can confirm that it’s booked just about completely full. Not for a launch of a new station, eager to see what routes will follow. Fingers crossed and thinking optimistically for a DEN flight finally.

teneriffe77 · Thu May 20, 2021 3:28 am

Does anybody know why a Frontier A321 was on the ground in SYR for over 36 hours earlier this week

MikeMidd2001 · Thu May 20, 2021 8:02 pm

USAirALB wrote:
I highly doubt that people from the Capital Region will drive all the way to SYR just to get on a once daily nonstop to DFW that departs at 7AM. The distance from Downtown Albany to SYR is roughly the same distance as Downtown Albany to EWR (both roughly 2h25m, you can make it to SYR in about 2h10m). BOS is only ten minutes further than EWR (2h35m).

Growing up in ALB, people (my family included) would drive to BOS/EWR/YSWF (SWF specifically as it had South Florida nonstops on FL/B6 before ALB did) all the time, but I've never heard of anyone driving to SYR. I have known people to fly to YUL as well to catch nonstops to Europe.

ALB traffic has always fascinated me, not just because I am originally from there, but its service is somewhat of an anomaly. It's wealth and per capita income are the highest of any metro area outside of NYC, and it is the closest airport to the vacation spots in the Adirondacks and Saratoga Springs, where there is a lot of wealth in particular. The Capital District just passed the Rochester CSA as the third largest metro area in the state, and I believe the Capital District will likely pass Buffalo CSA in terms of population within the next 10-15 years. Then again, I suppose Saratoga Springs serves a particular market that isn't likely to fly in to visit (NYC) and the Adirondacks for some reason are almost unheard of outside of the Northeast, which I have found somewhat bizarre given the plethora of awesome activities and ski resorts that rival their West Coast rivals (Whiteface in particular).

Of course, Buffalo will always have more service due to its location on the Canadian border.

I'm not saying I am surprised ALB isn't a much larger airport, but I am somewhat surprised there isn't service to DFW for example at this point. I know years ago ALB-LAS was once WN's most profitable routes over 2000 miles (there was an old thread from about 2010 or so that had the data) but I find it interesting now WN can't seem to make ALB-West of the Mississippi routes work. DEN seems to come and go with seasonality.

We'll never know for sure, but I suppose that its proximity to NYC/BOS/BDL play a part. SYR/ROC/BUF don't really have a domestic hub airport within such close proximity. When I was a kid, whenever we would travel to the West Coast or internationally, we would nearly always drive down to NYC/BOS to fly a nonstop. Even with the 2.5 hour drive, driving to say EWR was always faster than flying somewhere from ALB and connecting.

Late to the party on this, but a fellow Capital Region native so wanted to jump in with some Albany chat.

In general, the Albany aviation market has been smaller than one might expect for a while. It wasn't even that long ago that American was absent from the market altogether. Some of that is probably because a big chunk of traffic at Rochester and Syracuse is to JFK, Newark and LaGuardia, while you can only get to Newark from Albany. And because Albany is closely connected to New York City in many ways (economic, cultural, political), I suspect there's a real comfort level with getting on a train or bus to fly from Newark or JFK, particularly for longer trips. Plus leakage to SWF and Bradley, as you said. And also because Albany (arguably) has historically not been as big a private sector city as Rochester, probably less business travel than similar sized markets.

On the flipside, inbound travel to Albany across all modes of transport will involve a fair amount of state government-related travel (so probably less likely to fly than drive/train), business travel from New York City (train/drive/bus), tourism to the Adirondacks (drive from New York City area/northern New Jersey), etc. All of that depresses air travel.

As for the Adirondacks, I've spent my entire life going there in the summer. I'm okay if it remains somewhat undiscovered! One of my favorite childhood memories would be the A-10 Warthogs from Hancock that used to fly over our lake in the Adirondacks.

SYRAVGEEK · Thu May 20, 2021 11:58 pm

teneriffe77 wrote:
Does anybody know why a Frontier A321 was on the ground in SYR for over 36 hours earlier this week

Weather Maybe?

DCA-ROCguy · Fri May 21, 2021 2:05 pm

ROCDLFAN wrote:
F9 launches MCO tomorrow from ROC and I can confirm that it’s booked just about completely full. Not for a launch of a new station, eager to see what routes will follow. Fingers crossed and thinking optimistically for a DEN flight finally.

Did anybody get pictures? Surprisingly, I didn't find any media coverage.

I'm hoping for a DEN flight too.

Jim

jplatts · Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:23 pm

Senator Chuck Schumer is pitching WN to start service out of SYR, according to news releases that can be found at https://www.syracuse.com/politics/2021/06/schumer-optimistic-after-pitching-southwest-airlines-to-start-flying-out-of-syracuse.html and https://www.syracuse.com/politics/2021/06/schumer-optimistic-after-pitching-southwest-airlines-to-start-flying-out-of-syracuse.html.

Wneast · Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:24 pm

jplatts wrote:
Senator Chuck Schumer is pitching WN to start service out of SYR, according to news releases that can be found at https://www.syracuse.com/politics/2021/06/schumer-optimistic-after-pitching-southwest-airlines-to-start-flying-out-of-syracuse.html and https://www.syracuse.com/politics/2021/06/schumer-optimistic-after-pitching-southwest-airlines-to-start-flying-out-of-syracuse.html.

Him saying soon sound like it could be announced with the schedule next week

SYRAVGEEK · Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:52 pm

jplatts wrote:
Senator Chuck Schumer is pitching WN to start service out of SYR, according to news releases that can be found at https://www.syracuse.com/politics/2021/06/schumer-optimistic-after-pitching-southwest-airlines-to-start-flying-out-of-syracuse.html and https://www.syracuse.com/politics/2021/06/schumer-optimistic-after-pitching-southwest-airlines-to-start-flying-out-of-syracuse.html.

He says that out of the many times during the 20+ years of negotiation with WN he feels the most conifdent now. WN said they wanted to add 50 new destinations for their 50th anniversary, if this meeting says anything it say SYR will be one of them

rocANDtpa · Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:19 pm

Looks like WN added SYR. 3x daily to BWI and 1x weekly to MCO. Many people’s wishes have been answered.

cosyr · Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:38 pm

rocANDtpa wrote:
Looks like WN added SYR. 3x daily to BWI and 1x weekly to MCO. Many people’s wishes have been answered.

I can't find any articles announcing service. Do you have something you can share?

Wneast · Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:44 pm

cosyr wrote:
rocANDtpa wrote:
Looks like WN added SYR. 3x daily to BWI and 1x weekly to MCO. Many people’s wishes have been answered.

I can't find any articles announcing service. Do you have something you can share?

It’s bookable on their website

USAirALB · Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:45 pm

cosyr wrote:
rocANDtpa wrote:
Looks like WN added SYR. 3x daily to BWI and 1x weekly to MCO. Many people’s wishes have been answered.

I can't find any articles announcing service. Do you have something you can share?

It shows up on their route map as nonstop service to MCO and BWI.

WN is also starting nonstop service from BUF to SJU.

SyracuseAvGeek · Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:39 pm

USAirALB wrote:
cosyr wrote:
rocANDtpa wrote:
Looks like WN added SYR. 3x daily to BWI and 1x weekly to MCO. Many people’s wishes have been answered.

I can't find any articles announcing service. Do you have something you can share?

It shows up on their route map as nonstop service to MCO and BWI.

WN is also starting nonstop service from BUF to SJU.

Really? Where did you see the Puerto Rico thing, and when do the flights start?

cosyr · Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:47 pm

Wneast wrote:
cosyr wrote:
rocANDtpa wrote:
Looks like WN added SYR. 3x daily to BWI and 1x weekly to MCO. Many people’s wishes have been answered.

I can't find any articles announcing service. Do you have something you can share?

It’s bookable on their website

That is exciting news, so I'm surprised SYR isn't shouting it from the rooftops. I just searched for the flights that I have to DEN at Christmans, and WN's flights are exactly half the price of UA!
Edit: Spoke too soon: https://cnycentral.com/news/local/south ... se-airport

United_fan · Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:53 pm

Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
Things are getting back to normal at BNIA in Buffalo

Jetblue - BUF - LA fight is back
American mainline is back for Charlotte
Frontier using mostly A321s flying to florida

Still not back to 100% but getting there.

BUF-PHX and LAS are gone.

panam330 · Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:00 pm

cosyr wrote:
Wneast wrote:
cosyr wrote:
I can't find any articles announcing service. Do you have something you can share?

It’s bookable on their website

That is exciting news, so I'm surprised SYR isn't shouting it from the rooftops. I just searched for the flights that I have to DEN at Christmans, and WN's flights are exactly half the price of UA!
Edit: Spoke too soon: https://cnycentral.com/news/local/south ... se-airport

Lol, talk about anti-climactic. I wonder what Chuckie bribed WN with to add SYR, because it sure doesn’t sound like they want to - no press release or even an announcement. A couple flights a day to BWI and Saturday only MCO. I don’t think I’ve ever seen WN launch a city with so little.

Wneast · Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:01 pm

panam330 wrote:
cosyr wrote:
Wneast wrote:
It’s bookable on their website

That is exciting news, so I'm surprised SYR isn't shouting it from the rooftops. I just searched for the flights that I have to DEN at Christmans, and WN's flights are exactly half the price of UA!
Edit: Spoke too soon: https://cnycentral.com/news/local/south ... se-airport

Lol, talk about anti-climactic. I wonder what Chuckie bribed WN with to add SYR, because it sure doesn’t sound like they want to - no press release or even an announcement.

I think it’s JFK slots they want so maybe this is how they get those

Buffalomatt1027 · Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:06 pm

BREAKING NEWS !!

Southwest Airlines is adding seasonal service to Puerto Rico starting November 13th!!!

And SYR gets Southwest service to BWI!

Buffalomatt1027 · Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:21 pm

United_fan wrote:
Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
Things are getting back to normal at BNIA in Buffalo

Jetblue - BUF - LA fight is back
American mainline is back for Charlotte
Frontier using mostly A321s flying to florida

Still not back to 100% but getting there.

BUF-PHX and LAS are gone.

ouch i didn't realize that till you mentioned it. Vegas Buffalo always seemed like it did really well.

So I guess BNIA isnt completely back. Also the boarder needs to open up

It still shows Vegas, Phoenix and Minneapolis on the where we fly to map. No Puerto Rico. If they do add PR and leave those other cities on, i think they expect those flights to return.

Roots1 · Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:00 pm

panam330 wrote:
cosyr wrote:
Wneast wrote:
It’s bookable on their website

That is exciting news, so I'm surprised SYR isn't shouting it from the rooftops. I just searched for the flights that I have to DEN at Christmans, and WN's flights are exactly half the price of UA!
Edit: Spoke too soon: https://cnycentral.com/news/local/south ... se-airport

Lol, talk about anti-climactic. I wonder what Chuckie bribed WN with to add SYR, because it sure doesn’t sound like they want to - no press release or even an announcement. A couple flights a day to BWI and Saturday only MCO. I don’t think I’ve ever seen WN launch a city with so little.

That basically is WN’s Rochester operation, so its totally reasonable.

panam330 · Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:10 pm

Roots1 wrote:
panam330 wrote:
cosyr wrote:
That is exciting news, so I'm surprised SYR isn't shouting it from the rooftops. I just searched for the flights that I have to DEN at Christmans, and WN's flights are exactly half the price of UA!
Edit: Spoke too soon: https://cnycentral.com/news/local/south ... se-airport

Lol, talk about anti-climactic. I wonder what Chuckie bribed WN with to add SYR, because it sure doesn’t sound like they want to - no press release or even an announcement. A couple flights a day to BWI and Saturday only MCO. I don’t think I’ve ever seen WN launch a city with so little.

That basically is WN’s Rochester operation, so its totally reasonable.

Wow, you’re right - ROC is the same plus a Saturday TPA. That’s terrible. For some reason, I thought they also flew MDW and more Florida, but evidently that’s ALB and BUF.

panam330 · Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:12 pm

Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
United_fan wrote:
Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
Things are getting back to normal at BNIA in Buffalo

Jetblue - BUF - LA fight is back
American mainline is back for Charlotte
Frontier using mostly A321s flying to florida

Still not back to 100% but getting there.

BUF-PHX and LAS are gone.

ouch i didn't realize that till you mentioned it. Vegas Buffalo always seemed like it did really well.

So I guess BNIA isnt completely back. Also the boarder needs to open up

It still shows Vegas, Phoenix and Minneapolis on the where we fly to map. No Puerto Rico. If they do add PR and leave those other cities on, i think they expect those flights to return.

Both PHX and LAS are available to book on weekends in November.

SyracuseAvGeek · Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:25 am

cosyr wrote:
Wneast wrote:
cosyr wrote:
I can't find any articles announcing service. Do you have something you can share?

It’s bookable on their website

That is exciting news, so I'm surprised SYR isn't shouting it from the rooftops. I just searched for the flights that I have to DEN at Christmans, and WN's flights are exactly half the price of UA!
Edit: Spoke too soon: https://cnycentral.com/news/local/south ... se-airport

I was surprised too. When frontier announced service they played it up for a week going “we have an important announcement coming up”... all of a sudden overnight they were like “southwest is coming”.... I’m surprised they didn’t throw a parade for the announcement :lol:

cosyr · Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:17 pm

Interesting way to start service: https://thepointsguy.com/news/southwest ... fall-2021/
3x BWI make sense, but I thought it was going to be weekly MCO, but TPG makes it seem like it's just Thanksgiving and Christmas weeks. So essentially, WN is starting with just 21x weekly flights. I remember they used to say they wouldn't start a new city unless they could start with 10x daily flights, because that was their ideal use rate per gate. What has changed in WN's operating policies? To my knowledge, WN doesn't subcontract airport jobs, unless I'm just way out of date? That kind of schedule doesn't seem like it would keep "mainline" employees busy for a whole shift, or more, if flights are spaced out from 6:30 in the morning until 10 something at night.

Obviously, without substantial growth in their fleet, if they do want to start so many new cities this year, they can't start them all with 10+ daily flights, but they must be farming out airport operations.

SYRAVGEEK · Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:56 pm

Anyone know what gate Southwest is using?

SYRAVGEEK · Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:04 pm

SyracuseAvGeek wrote:
cosyr wrote:
Wneast wrote:
It’s bookable on their website

That is exciting news, so I'm surprised SYR isn't shouting it from the rooftops. I just searched for the flights that I have to DEN at Christmans, and WN's flights are exactly half the price of UA!
Edit: Spoke too soon: https://cnycentral.com/news/local/south ... se-airport

I was surprised too. When frontier announced service they played it up for a week going “we have an important announcement coming up”... all of a sudden overnight they were like “southwest is coming”.... I’m surprised they didn’t throw a parade for the announcement

I've noticed that a lot with the airport, when the MIA one off happened they kept going on and on about it.

Buffalomatt1027 · Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:53 am

Buffalo to Myrtle beach seasonal from f9 started today. I actually think that was a smart flight idea by f9. I feel like a know a LOT of people that make that drive.

albspotter · Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:57 am

Very confused to see SYR getting not that much LUV (pun intended) from Southwest. My only guess is because they've invested so much into ALB (but refuse to bring back FLL, RSW, and LAS..) that they think ALB/ROC/BUF and even BDL are a much safer market.

N62NA · Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:53 am

Well apparently my post from yesterday has been deleted. In the past, they would let you know when they deleted your post. Anyway, I'll leave out the part discussed WHY upstate NY is economically depressed and just say I'm glad to see new service at SYR. :-)

FLYKTPA · Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:21 am

albspotter wrote:
Very confused to see SYR getting not that much LUV (pun intended) from Southwest. My only guess is because they've invested so much into ALB (but refuse to bring back FLL, RSW, and LAS..) that they think ALB/ROC/BUF and even BDL are a much safer market.

Or they want to test the waters and see how bookings go before going all out. Can’t blame them. They gotta fill 737s and SYR is only so big of a market. I think MCO will go daily rather quickly and you’ll see TPA, MDW and seasonal DEN added.

Wneast · Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:25 am

FLYKTPA wrote:
albspotter wrote:
Very confused to see SYR getting not that much LUV (pun intended) from Southwest. My only guess is because they've invested so much into ALB (but refuse to bring back FLL, RSW, and LAS..) that they think ALB/ROC/BUF and even BDL are a much safer market.

Or they want to test the waters and see how bookings go before going all out. Can’t blame them. They gotta fill 737s and SYR is only so big of a market. I think MCO will go daily rather quickly and you’ll see TPA, MDW and seasonal DEN added.

Who knows maybe they are starting small for that reason and starting now maybe to get those slots at JFK sooner

TucsonDave · Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:01 pm

albspotter wrote:
Very confused to see SYR getting not that much LUV (pun intended) from Southwest. My only guess is because they've invested so much into ALB (but refuse to bring back FLL, RSW, and LAS..) that they think ALB/ROC/BUF and even BDL are a much safer market.

In fact, the announcement was made on the day SW was celebrating its 50th year in business. That is more significant than the addition of SYR and BLI, though I'm delighted to see SYR finally added. Don't worry, albspotter,, SW will do just fine at SYR. SYR has its own catchment area, and hopefully the days of the bleed to ALB and ROC will soon be over.

TucsonDave · Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:01 pm

albspotter wrote:
Very confused to see SYR getting not that much LUV (pun intended) from Southwest. My only guess is because they've invested so much into ALB (but refuse to bring back FLL, RSW, and LAS..) that they think ALB/ROC/BUF and even BDL are a much safer market.

In fact, the announcement was made on the day SW was celebrating its 50th year in business. That is more significant than the addition of SYR and BLI, though I'm delighted to see SYR finally added. Don't worry, albspotter,, SW will do just fine at SYR. SYR has its own catchment area, and hopefully the days of the bleed to ALB and ROC will soon be over.

SyracuseAvGeek · Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:10 pm

TucsonDave wrote:
albspotter wrote:
Very confused to see SYR getting not that much LUV (pun intended) from Southwest. My only guess is because they've invested so much into ALB (but refuse to bring back FLL, RSW, and LAS..) that they think ALB/ROC/BUF and even BDL are a much safer market.

In fact, the announcement was made on the day SW was celebrating its 50th year in business. That is more significant than the addition of SYR and BLI, though I'm delighted to see SYR finally added. Don't worry, albspotter,, SW will do just fine at SYR. SYR has its own catchment area, and hopefully the days of the bleed to ALB and ROC will soon be over.

I’m just surprised there wasn’t more a play up to the announcement. For Frontier they teased it for over a week, with this one it was very sudden.

albspotter · Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:39 am

TucsonDave wrote:
albspotter wrote:
Very confused to see SYR getting not that much LUV (pun intended) from Southwest. My only guess is because they've invested so much into ALB (but refuse to bring back FLL, RSW, and LAS..) that they think ALB/ROC/BUF and even BDL are a much safer market.

In fact, the announcement was made on the day SW was celebrating its 50th year in business. That is more significant than the addition of SYR and BLI, though I'm delighted to see SYR finally added. Don't worry, albspotter,, SW will do just fine at SYR. SYR has its own catchment area, and hopefully the days of the bleed to ALB and ROC will soon be over.

I'm booked on the SYR inaugural so i'll report back to you about the payloads that flight. Also I believe there very little bleed traffic to ALB because it's a 2 hour car ride away, which for a 2 hour flight isn't worth it. However since ROC in the past has been marketed as SYR, and the less than an hour drive. I do believe ROC will suffer a little bit because of this.

Wneast · Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:42 am

TucsonDave wrote:
albspotter wrote:
Very confused to see SYR getting not that much LUV (pun intended) from Southwest. My only guess is because they've invested so much into ALB (but refuse to bring back FLL, RSW, and LAS..) that they think ALB/ROC/BUF and even BDL are a much safer market.

In fact, the announcement was made on the day SW was celebrating its 50th year in business. That is more significant than the addition of SYR and BLI, though I'm delighted to see SYR finally added. Don't worry, albspotter,, SW will do just fine at SYR. SYR has its own catchment area, and hopefully the days of the bleed to ALB and ROC will soon be over.

They are celebrating on the 18th with a rally

United_fan · Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:16 pm

The Zero G 727 is coming to ROC 9-19 !

cosyr · Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:36 pm

albspotter wrote:
TucsonDave wrote:
albspotter wrote:
Very confused to see SYR getting not that much LUV (pun intended) from Southwest. My only guess is because they've invested so much into ALB (but refuse to bring back FLL, RSW, and LAS..) that they think ALB/ROC/BUF and even BDL are a much safer market.

In fact, the announcement was made on the day SW was celebrating its 50th year in business. That is more significant than the addition of SYR and BLI, though I'm delighted to see SYR finally added. Don't worry, albspotter,, SW will do just fine at SYR. SYR has its own catchment area, and hopefully the days of the bleed to ALB and ROC will soon be over.

I'm booked on the SYR inaugural so i'll report back to you about the payloads that flight. Also I believe there very little bleed traffic to ALB because it's a 2 hour car ride away, which for a 2 hour flight isn't worth it. However since ROC in the past has been marketed as SYR, and the less than an hour drive. I do believe ROC will suffer a little bit because of this.

Maybe not in the city of Syracuse itself, but I live between Oneida and Utica, and people here drive to ALB all the time to fly WN. I drive to ALB to fly UA, because WN makes flights from ALB cheaper for competition. (To be fair, I also drive to ROC and occasionally BUF. I've also had to drive to YYZ and EWR to avoid the SYR premium).

I think WN will do well in SYR, and I hope they feel the urge to add MDW later on, but I don't know if MDW is getting close to its gate capacity limit as a hub.

jplatts · Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:20 pm

cosyr wrote:
I think WN will do well in SYR, and I hope they feel the urge to add MDW later on, but I don't know if MDW is getting close to its gate capacity limit as a hub.

WN has more room at MDW than it did in past years with WN currently operating approximately 203 daily departures out of MDW compared to the 265 daily departures that it operated out of MDW 4 years ago.

aeroc · Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:14 am

United_fan wrote:
The Zero G 727 is coming to ROC 9-19 !

That would be some ride and a great opportunity to video/photo a 727 in ROC again! I've been trying to catch Kalitta's 727 when it comes to ROC but its never a consistent schedule so it makes it hard with work. Then when I finally have a day off they switch back to the 737.

rocANDtpa · Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:41 pm

Looks like UA released their September schedule and its on the upward trend for ROC and SYR. ROC gets all 2 class aircraft. SYR has someone previously mentioned but I couldn't find the post gets mainline to IAD.

ROC

ORD
1 737-800
1 CRJ550
1 ERJ 170
1 ERJ 175

EWR
3 CRJ550

IAD
1 ERJ 170
2 CRJ550

682 Average Seats with approx 90 first class seats

SYR

ORD

1 A319
2 CRJ
1 CRJ550

EWR

1 CRJ
1 CRJ 550

IAD

1 737-700
1 CRJ550
1 CRJ

DEN

1 ERJ175

670 Average Seats with approx 66 first class seats

cosyr · Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:00 am

rocANDtpa wrote:
Looks like UA released their September schedule and its on the upward trend for ROC and SYR. ROC gets all 2 class aircraft. SYR has someone previously mentioned but I couldn't find the post gets mainline to IAD.

ROC

ORD
1 737-800
1 CRJ550
1 ERJ 170
1 ERJ 175

EWR
3 CRJ550

IAD
1 ERJ 170
2 CRJ550

682 Average Seats with approx 90 first class seats

SYR

ORD

1 A319
2 CRJ
1 CRJ550

EWR

1 CRJ
1 CRJ 550

IAD

1 737-700
1 CRJ550
1 CRJ

DEN

1 ERJ175

670 Average Seats with approx 66 first class seats

Mainline on SYR-IAD is certainly welcome. Also, I just paid extra to change my SYR-DEN flights in December to the nonstop, so here's hoping that demand stays steady and that sticks around. Those flights sell for a premium for the convenience of the nonstop, but when they cancel those routes, and switch you to a connection, you don't get the difference back.

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