Upstate New York Aviation Thread - 2021

usflyer msp · Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:38 am

SYRAVGEEK wrote:
albspotter wrote:
SYRAVGEEK wrote:
Via aviationDB the most recent data (June 2021) shows load factors of 86% on ELM-SFB, surprised G4 hasn’t expanded at ELM.

With all those load factors I'm surprised by that. I've always been confused why they chose to fly to ELM over ITH.

Could’ve been facilities, although I’ve definitely seen 737s (which are relatively the same size as 320s) at ITH as of late.

US flew PIT-ITH on mainline basically up until PIT closed.

SYRAVGEEK · Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:39 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
SYRAVGEEK wrote:
albspotter wrote:

With all those load factors I'm surprised by that. I've always been confused why they chose to fly to ELM over ITH.

Could’ve been facilities, although I’ve definitely seen 737s (which are relatively the same size as 320s) at ITH as of late.

US flew PIT-ITH on mainline basically up until PIT closed.

True, maybe ITH didn't make as much effort to reach out or maybe G4 figured ELM wouldn't be too critical of their schedule

Roots1 · Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:06 pm

I'm shocked ROC-DFW hasn't happened yet. The E175 would be a perfect fit.

SYRAVGEEK · Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:53 pm

Anyone notice the major bump on IAD-SYR & EWR-SYR tonight? Never thought I’d see 739s on those routes.

USAirALB · Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:04 pm

Looks like 2x ALB-EWR frequencies are up-gauged to E175s. I don't think any ALB-NYC service has seen aircraft of that size since the 1980s. Very interesting up-gauge, as I believe ALB-EWR is the last of the short, regional routes operating from EWR (I believe it is the shortest route UA operates from EWR) and I'm honestly surprised to see it still around.

bam111998 · Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:17 pm

USAirALB wrote:
Looks like 2x ALB-EWR frequencies are up-gauged to E175s. I don't think any ALB-NYC service has seen aircraft of that size since the 1980s. Very interesting up-gauge, as I believe ALB-EWR is the last of the short, regional routes operating from EWR (I believe it is the shortest route UA operates from EWR) and I'm honestly surprised to see it still around.

I thought it still existed to funnel 145s through the Commutair maintenance base at ALB, interesting to see it switch to another aircraft. There must be enough people from the capital region who connect in Newark. Got to love flying EWR-ALB though, 2 hour delay to fly 20 minutes.

RL757PVD · Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:19 pm

all single class 50 seat RJs have been removed from EWR... everything in 2-class now, so E170/175 or CRJ-550, even the PQI-EWR EAS route is now a CRJ550

KBUF · Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:10 am

SYRAVGEEK wrote:
Anyone notice the major bump on IAD-SYR & EWR-SYR tonight? Never thought I’d see 739s on those routes.

Noticed that IAD-BUF got upgauged, too. 1x 73G and 1x 738. Quite the pleasant surprise, that.

USAirALB · Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:34 am

KBUF wrote:
SYRAVGEEK wrote:
Anyone notice the major bump on IAD-SYR & EWR-SYR tonight? Never thought I’d see 739s on those routes.

Noticed that IAD-BUF got upgauged, too. 1x 73G and 1x 738. Quite the pleasant surprise, that.

I believe its just for the month of October. Mainline is off all non-ORD routes come November I believe.

WeatherPilot · Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:59 am

SYRAVGEEK wrote:
Anyone notice the major bump on IAD-SYR & EWR-SYR tonight? Never thought I’d see 739s on those routes.

I think they were a part of the planned upgauges UA was doing for certain college football games this fall. Clemson plays at Syracuse tonight.

albspotter · Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:11 pm

USAirALB wrote:
KBUF wrote:
SYRAVGEEK wrote:
Anyone notice the major bump on IAD-SYR & EWR-SYR tonight? Never thought I’d see 739s on those routes.

Noticed that IAD-BUF got upgauged, too. 1x 73G and 1x 738. Quite the pleasant surprise, that.

I believe its just for the month of October. Mainline is off all non-ORD routes come November I believe.

In November ALB loses it's noon mainline ORD flight, and EWR goes to E-175s now, and IAD loses a daily flight. interesting to see United expand then retract when passenger numbers are climbing.

albspotter · Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:14 pm

SYRAVGEEK wrote:
albspotter wrote:
SYRAVGEEK wrote:
Via aviationDB the most recent data (June 2021) shows load factors of 86% on ELM-SFB, surprised G4 hasn’t expanded at ELM.

With all those load factors I'm surprised by that. I've always been confused why they chose to fly to ELM over ITH.

Could’ve been facilities, although I’ve definitely seen 737s (which are relatively the same size as 320s) at ITH as of late.

Those 737s are charters for the Watkins Glen NASCAR race every year. Southwest and Miami Air do them from what i recall.

jplatts · Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:55 pm

Here are the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN flights out of ALB, BUF, and ROC in May 2021:
ALB-BWI - 37438 passengers, 40010 seats, 93.57% load factor
ALB-DEN - 8698 passengers, 9412 seats, 92.41% load factor
ALB-MCO - 10415 passengers, 10953 seats, 95.09% load factor
ALB-MDW - 16621 passengers, 17951 seats, 92.59% load factor
ALB-TPA - 2448 passengers, 2574 seats, 95.10% load factor

BUF-BWI - 35851 passengers, 39244 seats, 91.35% load factor
BUF-DEN - 9435 passengers, 10259 seats, 91.97% load factor
BUF-FLL - 6399 passengers, 7521 seats, 85.08% load factor
BUF-LAS - 1380 passengers, 1447 seats, 95.37% load factor
BUF-MCO - 12458 passengers, 13200 seats, 94.38% load factor
BUF-MDW - 26010 passengers, 27973 seats, 92.98% load factor
BUF-RSW - 1453 passengers, 1733 seats, 83.84% load factor
BUF-TPA - 2856 passengers, 3022 seats, 94.51% load factor

BWI-ROC - 24881 passengers, 26507 seats, 93.87% load factor
MCO-ROC - 2760 passengers, 2894 seats, 95.37% load factor
ROC-TPA - 1522 passengers, 1590 seats, 95.72% load factor

Buffalomatt1027 · Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:22 pm

https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-li ... his-spring

Sun Country is adding 2x week flights from BUF - MSP staring June 2022.

I find this add interesting and I dont really understand it. Isnt Delta resuming that route that same month?

Buffalomatt1027 · Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:23 pm

jplatts wrote:
Here are the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN flights out of ALB, BUF, and ROC in May 2021:
ALB-BWI - 37438 passengers, 40010 seats, 93.57% load factor
ALB-DEN - 8698 passengers, 9412 seats, 92.41% load factor
ALB-MCO - 10415 passengers, 10953 seats, 95.09% load factor
ALB-MDW - 16621 passengers, 17951 seats, 92.59% load factor
ALB-TPA - 2448 passengers, 2574 seats, 95.10% load factor

BUF-BWI - 35851 passengers, 39244 seats, 91.35% load factor
BUF-DEN - 9435 passengers, 10259 seats, 91.97% load factor
BUF-FLL - 6399 passengers, 7521 seats, 85.08% load factor
BUF-LAS - 1380 passengers, 1447 seats, 95.37% load factor
BUF-MCO - 12458 passengers, 13200 seats, 94.38% load factor
BUF-MDW - 26010 passengers, 27973 seats, 92.98% load factor
BUF-RSW - 1453 passengers, 1733 seats, 83.84% load factor
BUF-TPA - 2856 passengers, 3022 seats, 94.51% load factor

BWI-ROC - 24881 passengers, 26507 seats, 93.87% load factor
MCO-ROC - 2760 passengers, 2894 seats, 95.37% load factor
ROC-TPA - 1522 passengers, 1590 seats, 95.72% load factor

very impressed with BUF. The boarder is opening in November. I expect a floor gates of canadians to want to fly out of BNIA again.

usflyer msp · Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:33 pm

Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-lifestyle/sun-country-adds-7-new-routes-from-msp-airport-this-spring

Sun Country is adding 2x week flights from BUF - MSP staring June 2022.

I find this add interesting and I dont really understand it. Isnt Delta resuming that route that same month?

It sort of came from nowhere but as a BUF native living in MSP, I'll take it. I still go back one weekend every month to see my family so the Thurs/Sun schedule works perfectly for me. Maybe someone heard me whining about the lack of nonstops for the last 18 months.

Buffalomatt1027 · Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:16 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-lifestyle/sun-country-adds-7-new-routes-from-msp-airport-this-spring

Sun Country is adding 2x week flights from BUF - MSP staring June 2022.

I find this add interesting and I dont really understand it. Isnt Delta resuming that route that same month?

It sort of came from nowhere but as a BUF native living in MSP, I'll take it. I still go back one weekend every month to see my family so the Thurs/Sun schedule works perfectly for me. Maybe someone heard me whining about the lack of nonstops for the last 18 months.

Yeah, that is fine. But Delta is also bringing back that same flight in June of next year or early spring.

WilhelmZuWied · Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:09 pm

Seems that American dropped late afternoon and evening SYR-ORD flights between Dec. 16 and Jan. 3. Now most of these days only have two flights left: an early morning (5:30am) and an afternoon (1:47pm) one.

SyracuseAvGeek · Sat Oct 23, 2021 12:46 pm

Walked through the terminal at SYR this morning. Southwest’s boarding podiums are now set up at gate 1. I hope they add more stuff before the inaugural next month

panam330 · Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:26 pm

WilhelmZuWied wrote:
Seems that American dropped late afternoon and evening SYR-ORD flights between Dec. 16 and Jan. 3. Now most of these days only have two flights left: an early morning (5:30am) and an afternoon (1:47pm) one.

And one of them downgauges to a 145! It looks like they dropped a LOT of flying out of SYR for those 2 weeks; it's the lightest schedule I've seen from them since the initial Covid drawdown.

jplatts · Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:36 pm

panam330 wrote:
WilhelmZuWied wrote:
Seems that American dropped late afternoon and evening SYR-ORD flights between Dec. 16 and Jan. 3. Now most of these days only have two flights left: an early morning (5:30am) and an afternoon (1:47pm) one.

And one of them downgauges to a 145! It looks like they dropped a LOT of flying out of SYR for those 2 weeks; it's the lightest schedule I've seen from them since the initial Covid drawdown.

AA does not have to connect as many passengers through ORD from SYR with AA now having nonstop service to DFW from SYR.

panam330 · Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:55 pm

jplatts wrote:
panam330 wrote:
WilhelmZuWied wrote:
Seems that American dropped late afternoon and evening SYR-ORD flights between Dec. 16 and Jan. 3. Now most of these days only have two flights left: an early morning (5:30am) and an afternoon (1:47pm) one.

And one of them downgauges to a 145! It looks like they dropped a LOT of flying out of SYR for those 2 weeks; it's the lightest schedule I've seen from them since the initial Covid drawdown.

AA does not have to connect as many passengers through ORD from SYR with AA now having nonstop service to DFW from SYR.

That's not the same connecting flow pattern. If I'm going to SEA or MSP, for example, I'm not going to go via DFW. Additionally, SYR-DFW leaves at 7am, which overlaps an ORD departure, and doesn't negate the loss of the late-AM and late-PM ORD frequencies. As of now they'll be restored after the new year, but as with any schedule change these days, it's to be taken with a grain of salt this far out.

albspotter · Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:41 pm

Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-lifestyle/sun-country-adds-7-new-routes-from-msp-airport-this-spring

Sun Country is adding 2x week flights from BUF - MSP staring June 2022.

I find this add interesting and I dont really understand it. Isnt Delta resuming that route that same month?

It sort of came from nowhere but as a BUF native living in MSP, I'll take it. I still go back one weekend every month to see my family so the Thurs/Sun schedule works perfectly for me. Maybe someone heard me whining about the lack of nonstops for the last 18 months.

Yeah, that is fine. But Delta is also bringing back that same flight in June of next year or early spring.

I last saw in April DL is resuming MSP to all 4 upstate airports.

albspotter · Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:41 pm

jplatts wrote:
panam330 wrote:
WilhelmZuWied wrote:
Seems that American dropped late afternoon and evening SYR-ORD flights between Dec. 16 and Jan. 3. Now most of these days only have two flights left: an early morning (5:30am) and an afternoon (1:47pm) one.

And one of them downgauges to a 145! It looks like they dropped a LOT of flying out of SYR for those 2 weeks; it's the lightest schedule I've seen from them since the initial Covid drawdown.

AA does not have to connect as many passengers through ORD from SYR with AA now having nonstop service to DFW from SYR.

Having nonstop to DFW from ALB would be real nice you know.

SyracuseAvGeek · Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:57 pm

Do we know if gate 1 at SYR is going to continue to be a general use gate? Or will Southwest just take control of it completely?

Buffalomatt1027 · Thu Nov 04, 2021 7:30 pm

Canadians are allowed back to the US ........ will we see a mad dash back to BNIA to fly domestically again? My guess is YES

WeatherPilot · Fri Nov 05, 2021 12:32 am

SyracuseAvGeek wrote:
Do we know if gate 1 at SYR is going to continue to be a general use gate? Or will Southwest just take control of it completely?

I thought someone mentioned here once that SYR’s plans were to eventually make every gate Common Use the next time each gate’s lease holder contract was up for renewal.

SyracuseAvGeek · Fri Nov 05, 2021 1:12 pm

WeatherPilot wrote:
SyracuseAvGeek wrote:
Do we know if gate 1 at SYR is going to continue to be a general use gate? Or will Southwest just take control of it completely?

I thought someone mentioned here once that SYR’s plans were to eventually make every gate Common Use the next time each gate’s lease holder contract was up for renewal.

I don’t see how that would be possible, especially with Southwest boarding podiums taking up a big chunk of the waiting area near gate 1

cosyr · Fri Nov 05, 2021 1:24 pm

SyracuseAvGeek wrote:
WeatherPilot wrote:
SyracuseAvGeek wrote:
Do we know if gate 1 at SYR is going to continue to be a general use gate? Or will Southwest just take control of it completely?

I thought someone mentioned here once that SYR’s plans were to eventually make every gate Common Use the next time each gate’s lease holder contract was up for renewal.

I don’t see how that would be possible, especially with Southwest boarding podiums taking up a big chunk of the waiting area near gate 1

Just because each gate would technically be common use, doesn't mean that airlines won't use particular gates 95% of the time. I think SYR is just still reacting to the decade (plus) of gate squatting that US/AA did, that forced them to create gate 15 in the first place. This will just allow SYR to force an airline to let a competitor use some space if they aren't using a gate to capacity.

dekema2 · Mon Nov 08, 2021 1:22 am

Why don't the Buffalo Bills use the wide body Gate 1 at KBUF?

bam111998 · Mon Nov 08, 2021 1:44 am

dekema2 wrote:
Why don't the Buffalo Bills use the wide body Gate 1 at KBUF?

Widebody gates are reserved for teams that can win against the Jaguars.

Buffalomatt1027 · Mon Nov 08, 2021 7:27 pm

dekema2 wrote:
Why don't the Buffalo Bills use the wide body Gate 1 at KBUF?

Its a charter flight .... so they go through security somewhere around Fedex and ups.

When the Bills played a game in London, they did have to go through customs and use gate 1

teneriffe77 · Tue Nov 09, 2021 1:31 am

Here at SYR, SU and many other sports charters use Million Air as it's right next to I-81

8905348954 · Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:46 am

teneriffe77 wrote:
Here at SYR, SU and many other sports charters use Million Air as it's right next to I-81

I had heard the other FBO on the other side of the field closed...

Andrew
JFK MEM MCI SYR ABQ Retired

dekema2 · Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:08 am

bam111998 wrote:
dekema2 wrote:
Why don't the Buffalo Bills use the wide body Gate 1 at KBUF?

Widebody gates are reserved for teams that can win against the Jaguars.

Nicely done

jplatts · Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:58 pm

Here are the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN flights out of ALB, BUF, and ROC in August 2021:
ALB-BWI - 33980 passengers, 36980 seats, 91.89% load factor
ALB-DEN - 8621 passengers, 9237 seats, 93.33% load factor
ALB-MCO - 10040 passengers, 10699 seats, 93.84% load factor
ALB-MDW - 22032 passengers, 23910 seats, 92.15% load factor
ALB-TPA - 2225 passengers, 2431 seats, 91.53% load factor

BUF-BWI - 33320 passengers, 37456 seats, 88.96% load factor
BUF-DEN - 9621 passengers, 10434 seats, 92.21% load factor
BUF-FLL - 5721 passengers, 6853 seats, 83.48% load factor
BUF-LAS - 1006 passengers, 1097 seats, 91.70% load factor
BUF-MCO - 12373 passengers, 12978 seats, 95.34% load factor
BUF-MDW - 25420 passengers, 27028 seats, 94.05% load factor
BUF-RSW - 992 passengers, 1129 seats, 87.87% load factor
BUF-TPA - 2725 passengers, 2815 seats, 96.80% load factor

BWI-ROC - 29197 passengers, 32624 seats, 89.50% load factor
MCO-ROC - 2703 passengers, 2830 seats, 95.51% load factor
ROC-TPA - 917 passengers, 954 seats, 96.12% load factor

DCA-ROCguy · Sun Nov 14, 2021 12:31 am

UA 1701 B738 LAS-EWR diverted to ROC. Did you guys get any diversions?

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL ... /KLAS/KROC

SYRAVGEEK · Sun Nov 14, 2021 3:05 pm

DCA-ROCguy wrote:
UA 1701 B738 LAS-EWR diverted to ROC. Did you guys get any diversions?

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL ... /KLAS/KROC

We got UA 627, B739 from DEN-EWR

rocANDtpa · Sun Nov 14, 2021 10:39 pm

AA uploaded the January schedule and ROC-CLT gets two 737-800. I was shocked it was a larger aircraft than a A319. Also AA has 4 ROC-DCA flights with a flight leaving ROC at 8:34pm and arriving in DCA at 10pm.

teneriffe77 · Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:24 am

Southwest inaugurated service to SYR today. https://www.localsyr.com/news/local-new ... l-airport/

WeatherPilot · Mon Nov 15, 2021 2:46 pm

First full day of service at SYR and Southwest has already cancelled the midday flight.

USAirALB · Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:05 pm

Delta is resuming ALB-LGA service on 5 January. They last operated the route (for around a couple months 1x/daily) immediately after the slot-swap with US in 2012 or so. I believe this is the first service directly to NYC from ALB since then.

I just posted about this in the DL Network thread, but I cannot figure out the reasoning behind the route. Amtrak offers 10 trains/day, and improvements to the Empire Corridor have gotten trip times down to 2h25m. Day trips are now essentially easy and possible between the two cities on Amtrak, and improvements slated for the recently passed infrastructure bill call for the trip to be down to 2h05m in the future.

The schedule isn't even timed for O/D traffic...the first departure from ALB to LGA is at 12:35p, and the latest departure from LGA back into ALB is at 4:00p. The schedule from LGA into ALB isn't necessarily suited for ALB-bound NYC traffic, either.

I suppose one could make the argument that the flight is geared toward connecting traffic, but I would assume that DL would have better use for a valuable LGA-slot. Very bizarre.

SyracuseAvGeek · Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:21 am

WeatherPilot wrote:
First full day of service at SYR and Southwest has already cancelled the midday flight.

That’s not good, do we know the reason behind it? I’m also interested to see what the load factors were like for the first couple of flights minus the first which was a lot of enthusiasts, press, and airline executives.

KBUF · Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:58 pm

F9 with a bunch of adds today. ALB-FLL, BUF-CUN, BUF-FLL, ROC-FLL. All start in mid-February: https://news.flyfrontier.com/frontier-a ... tinations/

SYRAVGEEK · Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:01 pm

foxecho wrote:
teneriffe77 wrote:
Here at SYR, SU and many other sports charters use Million Air as it's right next to I-81

I had heard the other FBO on the other side of the field closed...

Andrew
JFK MEM MCI SYR ABQ Retired

Signature hasn’t closed yet but they’re planning on it. MillionAir is expected to take over their facilities.

Buffalomatt1027 · Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:02 am

KBUF wrote:
F9 with a bunch of adds today. ALB-FLL, BUF-CUN, BUF-FLL, ROC-FLL. All start in mid-February: https://news.flyfrontier.com/frontier-a ... tinations/

That was a nice little add by Frontier for BUF..... i am guessing the sunwig charters will not be coming back due to frontier adding this route.

albspotter · Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:54 am

ALB took a huge L with airlines it seems like. American cut one our mid-day CLT route and added a flight to regionals, cut an ORD route. United cut an ORD route and an EWR route. Delta pushed back MSP resumption by over 6 months and continues to refuse to restart DTW mainline. Not to mention JetBlue recently going 5x a week. This is overall disappointing to see the airlines downsize our operations when passenger numbers are clearly on the rise.

Buffalomatt1027 · Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:58 pm

albspotter wrote:
ALB took a huge L with airlines it seems like. American cut one our mid-day CLT route and added a flight to regionals, cut an ORD route. United cut an ORD route and an EWR route. Delta pushed back MSP resumption by over 6 months and continues to refuse to restart DTW mainline. Not to mention JetBlue recently going 5x a week. This is overall disappointing to see the airlines downsize our operations when passenger numbers are clearly on the rise.

Mainline airlines always treat upstate airports like the ugly stepchild that isnt loved enough. I am not sure about albany .... but i know that BUF should (not saying they will) be getting more direct flights in the future but never do. Canadians are coming back over the boarder, reach into Rochester, and southern PA near Erie still come to BNIA. So it has a big reach.

AA tested out a successful MIA to BUF seasonal for a couple winters and then never went back. Even though they had good load %.

Southwest and Frontier seem to be the only ones rolling the dice on different routes. Jetblue to some extent with the LA - BUF direct flight.

But United, AA, Delta just hub to spoke model it still and dont care about direct flights.

db1125 · Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:11 pm

Buffalomatt1027 wrote:
albspotter wrote:
ALB took a huge L with airlines it seems like. American cut one our mid-day CLT route and added a flight to regionals, cut an ORD route. United cut an ORD route and an EWR route. Delta pushed back MSP resumption by over 6 months and continues to refuse to restart DTW mainline. Not to mention JetBlue recently going 5x a week. This is overall disappointing to see the airlines downsize our operations when passenger numbers are clearly on the rise.

Mainline airlines always treat upstate airports like the ugly stepchild that isnt loved enough. I am not sure about albany .... but i know that BUF should (not saying they will) be getting more direct flights in the future but never do. Canadians are coming back over the boarder, reach into Rochester, and southern PA near Erie still come to BNIA. So it has a big reach.

AA tested out a successful MIA to BUF seasonal for a couple winters and then never went back. Even though they had good load %.

Southwest and Frontier seem to be the only ones rolling the dice on different routes. Jetblue to some extent with the LA - BUF direct flight.

But United, AA, Delta just hub to spoke model it still and dont care about direct flights.

I really don’t think BUF is underserved. Most of the major point to point markets from BUF are served by B6, F9 and WN. I’m not quite sure what the legacy carriers are supposed to add, besides AA to MIA (which is already served by F9 for p2p service) UA to IAH and DL to SLC, all of which BUF is fine without. The legacies are never going to offer expansive p2p service from BUF, they rarely do that and when they do, it is in huge markets like AUS or RDU. BUF may have a rather large catchment for a city if it’s size, but it still is nowhere near large enough to warrant p2p service from the legacies.

jplatts · Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:58 pm

db1125 wrote:
I really don’t think BUF is underserved. Most of the major point to point markets from BUF are served by B6, F9 and WN. I’m not quite sure what the legacy carriers are supposed to add, besides AA to MIA (which is already served by F9 for p2p service) UA to IAH and DL to SLC, all of which BUF is fine without. The legacies are never going to offer expansive p2p service from BUF, they rarely do that and when they do, it is in huge markets like AUS or RDU. BUF may have a rather large catchment for a city if it’s size, but it still is nowhere near large enough to warrant p2p service from the legacies.

UA adding BUF-DEN nonstop service might be a possibility with the adds that UA had made to DEN from a few other Northeastern destinations such as BTV, PWM, and SYR along with UA's plans to expand its DEN hub.

WN is unlikely to add BUF-HOU nonstop service without UA adding BUF-IAH nonstop service with UA having nonstop service out of IAH to all of the markets that WN serves nonstop from HOU. There are a few airports such as BUR, MDW, DAL, LGB, and OAK that WN serves nonstop from HOU but that UA doesn't serve nonstop from IAH, but UA does operate IAH-ORD/DFW/LAX/SFO nonstop service.

I had previously mentioned the possibility of DL adding BUF-SLC nonstop service with BUF being one of the top destinations traveled to from SLC prior to the COVID-19 pandemic that currently doesn't have any nonstop service out of BUF along with the connecting opportunities that would be there to the West Coast, Idaho, Nevada, Western Montana, and Western Canada through SLC.

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