rocANDtpa wrote:

Looks like UA released their September schedule and its on the upward trend for ROC and SYR. ROC gets all 2 class aircraft. SYR has someone previously mentioned but I couldn't find the post gets mainline to IAD.

ROC

ORD
1 737-800
1 CRJ550
1 ERJ 170
1 ERJ 175

EWR
3 CRJ550

IAD
1 ERJ 170
2 CRJ550

682 Average Seats with approx 90 first class seats

SYR

ORD

1 A319
2 CRJ
1 CRJ550

EWR

1 CRJ
1 CRJ 550

IAD

1 737-700
1 CRJ550
1 CRJ

DEN

1 ERJ175

670 Average Seats with approx 66 first class seats

Adding ALB on to this:

ORD

1 737-800
2 CRJ550

IAD

2 E145
1 CRJ

EWR

1 E145

albspotter wrote:

rocANDtpa wrote:

Looks like UA released their September schedule and its on the upward trend for ROC and SYR. ROC gets all 2 class aircraft. SYR has someone previously mentioned but I couldn't find the post gets mainline to IAD.

ROC

ORD
1 737-800
1 CRJ550
1 ERJ 170
1 ERJ 175

EWR
3 CRJ550

IAD
1 ERJ 170
2 CRJ550

682 Average Seats with approx 90 first class seats

SYR

ORD

1 A319
2 CRJ
1 CRJ550

EWR

1 CRJ
1 CRJ 550

IAD

1 737-700
1 CRJ550
1 CRJ

DEN

1 ERJ175

670 Average Seats with approx 66 first class seats

Adding ALB on to this:

ORD

1 737-800
2 CRJ550

IAD

2 E145
1 CRJ

EWR

1 E145

And BUF to complete the big 4:

ORD

1x A320
1x E170
1x E175
1x CRJ550

IAD
2x CRJ
1x E175

EWR

4x E145

Just traveled out of BUF this past week for vacation ..........

The new expansion building is just okay. Seems like a LOT of money for a place for the drivers or family member pick up.


The Buffalo airport in the morning when I left on a Saturday was not too too crazy.


But I landed at 5:30 pm ( on a delta A321 which was a surprise) ...... the airport was jammed packed with people. It was amazing! I also saw a BUF - Vegas Southwest flight leaving! So SORTA good news that route is still alive!

Buffalomatt1027 wrote:

Just traveled out of BUF this past week for vacation .......... The new expansion building is just okay. Seems like a LOT of money for a place for the drivers or family member pick up.

New York State was throwing money around. None of the big four Upstate airports needed gates, but they all found other ways to spend the money each got from the state, plus whatever money they wanted to spend themselves. ROC's bill came to about $80 million ($40 million from NYS plus about 40 million Monroe County added on).

Jim

It will be interesting to see what happens with UA in upstate in the next 5 years. They just ordered 270 planes, all 166 seats+, and stated that they will reduce commuter flying. Also, they said that EWR will become a 100% 2-Class airport, meaning no E145's and CR2's. All of this will mean some increase in mainline to upstate cities, but the question is, will this mean growth, or reduction in frequency?

I hope that UA truely does want to take a big piece of the domestic pie, because DL has been flying multiple mainline planes a day to BUF/ROC/SYR/ALB, and AA has mostly too. I've always thought that all the upstate markets were perfect for E195's or A220's, but maybe this is more of a "If you build it, they will come" situation. Bigger planes might mean more competitive fares too!

cosyr wrote:

It will be interesting to see what happens with UA in upstate in the next 5 years. They just ordered 270 planes, all 166 seats+, and stated that they will reduce commuter flying. Also, they said that EWR will become a 100% 2-Class airport, meaning no E145's and CR2's. All of this will mean some increase in mainline to upstate cities, but the question is, will this mean growth, or reduction in frequency?

I hope that UA truely does want to take a big piece of the domestic pie, because DL has been flying multiple mainline planes a day to BUF/ROC/SYR/ALB, and AA has mostly too. I've always thought that all the upstate markets were perfect for E195's or A220's, but maybe this is more of a "If you build it, they will come" situation. Bigger planes might mean more competitive fares too!

I agree 100%. UA had been pretty generous to the 4 upstate markets. ROC not too long ago would have 2-3 737-900 kick off flights with 2 going to ORD and 1 to EWR. SYR already has mainline kick off to ORD and IAD (coming in September). I wouldn’t be surprised to eventually see around 5 mainline flights to the 4 upstate markets.

I don’t understand why AA can’t eventually treat ROC like SYR and ALB. ROC currently has no mainline on AA. The addition of Saturday only service to MIA is nice. Also AA recently restored BOS service including a kickoff flight which is new. I want to see AA add mainline to CLT and a DFW flight.

albspotter wrote:

Adding ALB on to this:
EWR

1 E145

I wonder how sustainable this flight is. Thanks to Amtrak, ALB-NYC has very little O/D demand. The timing of the flight is horrible (AM departure from ALB, PM departure to ALB) and it doesn't connect to EWR's evening bank of departures to Europe and Latin America.

UA dropped a number of short EWR-Northeast routes a while ago (PVD, MHT, BDL...although PVD was brought back) and I believe ALB is now the shortest route UA flies ex EWR.

USAirALB wrote:

albspotter wrote:

Adding ALB on to this:
EWR

1 E145

I wonder how sustainable this flight is. Thanks to Amtrak, ALB-NYC has very little O/D demand. The timing of the flight is horrible (AM departure from ALB, PM departure to ALB) and it doesn't connect to EWR's evening bank of departures to Europe and Latin America.

UA dropped a number of short EWR-Northeast routes a while ago (PVD, MHT, BDL...although PVD was brought back) and I believe ALB is now the shortest route UA flies ex EWR.

In October UA is "supposedly" upping it from 1 to 3 times a day, still on E145s but October's schedule obviously isn't finalized yet so I believe it's going to stay 1x a day. Not to mention that United also suspended the route from March 2020 to October due to COVID. I flew on this route in February of 2020, the flight was packed, and everyone was connecting to Florida, Caribbean, and South America. Also mentioning how it currently costs $300 one way if you just wanted to do ALB-EWR, compared to $150 if you did ALB-EWR-MCO. Another interesting fact is that EWR-ALB and EWR-PQI are going to be the only two routes out of EWR that are operated by the E145 starting in September.

rocANDtpa wrote:

cosyr wrote:

It will be interesting to see what happens with UA in upstate in the next 5 years. They just ordered 270 planes, all 166 seats+, and stated that they will reduce commuter flying. Also, they said that EWR will become a 100% 2-Class airport, meaning no E145's and CR2's. All of this will mean some increase in mainline to upstate cities, but the question is, will this mean growth, or reduction in frequency?

I hope that UA truely does want to take a big piece of the domestic pie, because DL has been flying multiple mainline planes a day to BUF/ROC/SYR/ALB, and AA has mostly too. I've always thought that all the upstate markets were perfect for E195's or A220's, but maybe this is more of a "If you build it, they will come" situation. Bigger planes might mean more competitive fares too!

I agree 100%. UA had been pretty generous to the 4 upstate markets. ROC not too long ago would have 2-3 737-900 kick off flights with 2 going to ORD and 1 to EWR. SYR already has mainline kick off to ORD and IAD (coming in September). I wouldn’t be surprised to eventually see around 5 mainline flights to the 4 upstate markets.

I don’t understand why AA can’t eventually treat ROC like SYR and ALB. ROC currently has no mainline on AA. The addition of Saturday only service to MIA is nice. Also AA recently restored BOS service including a kickoff flight which is new. I want to see AA add mainline to CLT and a DFW flight.

I do find it interesting that ROC has never gotten mainline like BUF, SYR, and ALB. Even a morning flight on an A319 could even work I feel like. I've heard from a ramper who used to work for American at ALB, is that American really wants to start ALB-DFW, except that they need to cater because of the distance of the flight. And the main problem is that Southwest owns all the dead space at the airport currently, so American will need to park their catering at an off-site lot or lease a spot out from Southwest.

albspotter wrote:

've heard from a ramper who used to work for American at ALB, is that American really wants to start ALB-DFW, except that they need to cater because of the distance of the flight. And the main problem is that Southwest owns all the dead space at the airport currently, so American will need to park their catering at an off-site lot or lease a spot out from Southwest.

I'm sure the ramp agent more than likely said that but that's rubbish.

Domestic airlines actually really don't do catering at outstations anymore save for their larger domestic outstations that have several meal flights a day, or key strategic outstations...think airports with high number of transcontinental flights, etc. Destinations that are considered "strategic" airlines often contract with a local restaurant or catering company to supply food...think Hawaiian cities, PSP, AS does it at CHS.

AA is operating DFW-BGR/PWM/BUF/BTV currently, all of which lack catering facilities. Granted its COVID, but pre-COVID AA would either double cater the flight or pack a shelf-stable continental breakfast in the galley (if the aircraft RON) to be used on the return segment.

Catering is not stopping AA from doing ALB-DFW or frankly any segment for that matter.

albspotter wrote:

I do find it interesting that ROC has never gotten mainline like BUF, SYR, and ALB. Even a morning flight on an A319 could even work I feel like. I've heard from a ramper who used to work for American at ALB, is that American really wants to start ALB-DFW, except that they need to cater because of the distance of the flight. And the main problem is that Southwest owns all the dead space at the airport currently, so American will need to park their catering at an off-site lot or lease a spot out from Southwest.

In the before times, ROC used to have mainline to CLT in the winter, and 2x CR9 in the summer. I've gotten seen the aircraft at the gate.

Jim

USAirALB wrote:

albspotter wrote:

Adding ALB on to this:
EWR

1 E145

I wonder how sustainable this flight is. Thanks to Amtrak, ALB-NYC has very little O/D demand. The timing of the flight is horrible (AM departure from ALB, PM departure to ALB) and it doesn't connect to EWR's evening bank of departures to Europe and Latin America.

UA dropped a number of short EWR-Northeast routes a while ago (PVD, MHT, BDL...although PVD was brought back) and I believe ALB is now the shortest route UA flies ex EWR.

Remember that Commut Air’s maintenance base is ALB

Well it looks like SYR-MIA did well, seems like they wanna do a ROC style Saturday only MIA flight
https://syrairport.org/american-airline ... -to-miami/
I wonder how this will do

https://news.yahoo.com/american-airline ... 00113.html

Looks like ALB is getting in on the MIA action as well although its Sat only like ROC/SYR.

ALB, SYR, and ROC all have Sat-only MIA service on AA now.. surprises me that BUF hasn't gotten it yet, even though they already have it on F9.

albspotter wrote:

ALB, SYR, and ROC all have Sat-only MIA service on AA now.. surprises me that BUF hasn't gotten it yet, even though they already have it on F9.

They did have MIA service on AA pre-COVID

I'm new to this forum but have been reading it recently.
Looking at both Delta and JetBlue schedules for the fall at BUF, several flights a day are added to all NYC airports (I fly this route often).
So it looks like they are anticipating the US/Canada border to finally be reopened by then, and passenge traffic will jump significantly at BUF.
This increased service frequency will be welcomed as this route is one of the busiest routes at BNIA.

NYCviaBUF wrote:

I'm new to this forum but have been reading it recently.
Looking at both Delta and JetBlue schedules for the fall at BUF, several flights a day are added to all NYC airports (I fly this route often).
So it looks like they are anticipating the US/Canada border to finally be reopened by then, and passenge traffic will jump significantly at BUF.
This increased service frequency will be welcomed as this route is one of the busiest routes at BNIA.

They've been saying the border js supposed to open up on the 21st (or they'll at least give us an update on the border)

Seeing UA's new order for 19 seat electric aircraft: https://hub.united.com/electric-aircraf ... 65004.html

I hope this sees the return of 19 seat aircraft to upstate. While I enjoy flying E145's and E175's all day long, 19 seat aircraft could bring back a lot of routes that have been lost, like intra-NY flights and if AC were to buy some, maybe some airports could get YYZ service back.

NYCviaBUF wrote:

I'm new to this forum but have been reading it recently.
Looking at both Delta and JetBlue schedules for the fall at BUF, several flights a day are added to all NYC airports (I fly this route often).
So it looks like they are anticipating the US/Canada border to finally be reopened by then, and passenge traffic will jump significantly at BUF.
This increased service frequency will be welcomed as this route is one of the busiest routes at BNIA.

DL has also upgraded the 1PM flight to ATL to a 752.

cosyr wrote:

I hope this sees the return of 19 seat aircraft to upstate. While I enjoy flying E145's and E175's all day long, 19 seat aircraft could bring back a lot of routes that have been lost, like intra-NY flights and if AC were to buy some, maybe some airports could get YYZ service back.

One of the bigger failures of the industry in recent years has been the failure to produce replacements for 19-37 seat aircraft. These smaller aircraft are vital for thinner routes at medium-size markets like the Upstate 4, and smaller markets like ELM or BGM.

Such aircraft are needed for routes like those you mention. The sooner such aircraft could get into service, the better.

NYCviaBUF wrote:

I'm new to this forum but have been reading it recently.
Looking at both Delta and JetBlue schedules for the fall at BUF, several flights a day are added to all NYC airports (I fly this route often).
So it looks like they are anticipating the US/Canada border to finally be reopened by then, and passenge traffic will jump significantly at BUF.
This increased service frequency will be welcomed as this route is one of the busiest routes at BNIA.

Yup ... BNIA / Buffalo is finally starting to come back to life post covid. Delta has been using a321s and 757s this summer. Which has been nice to see! I flew on the A321 back to buffalo. I was shocked when my plane ride home wasnt a a320.


Southwest needs to bring back their Phoenix and vegas flights and Delta with Minneapolis. Then they will truly be back to 100%.


Once that boarder opens .... i definitely see a massive increase in passengers.

Buffalomatt1027 wrote:

NYCviaBUF wrote:

I'm new to this forum but have been reading it recently.
Looking at both Delta and JetBlue schedules for the fall at BUF, several flights a day are added to all NYC airports (I fly this route often).
So it looks like they are anticipating the US/Canada border to finally be reopened by then, and passenge traffic will jump significantly at BUF.
This increased service frequency will be welcomed as this route is one of the busiest routes at BNIA.

Yup ... BNIA / Buffalo is finally starting to come back to life post covid. Delta has been using a321s and 757s this summer. Which has been nice to see! I flew on the A321 back to buffalo. I was shocked when my plane ride home wasnt a a320.


Southwest needs to bring back their Phoenix and vegas flights and Delta with Minneapolis. Then they will truly be back to 100%.


Once that boarder opens .... i definitely see a massive increase in passengers.

IIRC, the BUF - LAS/PHX routes were made weekends only when BUF-DEN was launched. I would love to see BUF-MSP and BUF-BNA return if just for personal selfish reasons as those are the main routes my family flies.

It looks like mid August for the CAN/US border to reopen.
It'll be interesting to see how fast passenger traffic at BUF responds to the border opening, or possibly it will take time depending on which airlines have their fall schedules reflecting the border reopening and a substantial change in demand.
Re: 757, I don't think they are the specified aircraft in the DL schedule, but they seat about the same number of passengers as the A321s. Maybe they are being used as a substitute aircraft??

Actually DL1649 BUF -> ATL does have 757-200 service listed through the first week of August.
In total it looks like it will be used for a month or so.

DL’s preliminary September schedule is out - ROC and SYR finally are getting some love. SYR Upgauging from the 3 717’s a day to ATL to 3 A320’s. ROC going from 3 717’s to 2 A320’s and 1 738. BUF will be at 4 A321’s a day.

For ROC and SYR, they’ll both be at 11 flights a day. ATL, JFK and DTW capacity will be back to pre pandemic levels with the exception being no morning mainline on DTW. The real lagger at this point, is LGA - which doesn’t surprise me. And, there’s also the matter of MSP being gutted from every upstate city.

jplatts wrote:

Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN flights out of ALB, BUF, and ROC in April 2021:
ALB-BWI - 31205 passengers, 35202 seats, 88.65% load factor
ALB-MCO - 10071 passengers, 11653 seats, 86.42% load factor
ALB-MDW - 6585 passengers, 7820 seats, 84.21% load factor
ALB-TPA - 1719 passengers, 1955 seats, 87.93% load factor
BUF-BWI - 30836 passengers, 35523 seats, 86.81% load factor
BUF-DEN - 7703 passengers, 8172 seats, 94.26% load factor
BUF-FLL - 6668 passengers, 7517 seats, 88.71% load factor
BUF-MCO - 17243 passengers, 20143 seats, 85.60% load factor
BUF-MDW - 7633 passengers, 8727 seats, 87.46% load factor
BUF-PHX - 1299 passengers, 1383 seats, 93.93% load factor
BUF-RSW - 978 passengers, 1001 seats, 97.70% load factor
BUF-TPA - 12611 passengers, 15420 seats, 81.78% load factor
BWI-ROC - 17076 passengers, 17911 seats, 95.34% load factor
MCO-ROC - 733 passengers, 779 seats, 94.09% load factor
ROC-TPA - 905 passengers, 954 seats, 94.86% load factor

For ROC, It looks like they’ve added a 4th daily BWI for August, and there are some days where all 4 are operated by 738’s. The fact that on their busiest days they have 6 flights a day (4 BWI, 1 MCO and 1 TPA) but yet there’s nothing heading west is just dumbfounding to me. I still believe that MDW will come back, and it wouldn’t surprise me if we saw them try a Saturday only DEN. Considering the farthest west one can fly from ROC currently is ORD, it’s only a matter of time until either F9, UA or WN try DEN or AA adds DFW.

jplatts wrote:

Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN flights out of ALB, BUF, and ROC in April 2021:
ALB-BWI - 31205 passengers, 35202 seats, 88.65% load factor
ALB-MCO - 10071 passengers, 11653 seats, 86.42% load factor
ALB-MDW - 6585 passengers, 7820 seats, 84.21% load factor
ALB-TPA - 1719 passengers, 1955 seats, 87.93% load factor
BUF-BWI - 30836 passengers, 35523 seats, 86.81% load factor
BUF-DEN - 7703 passengers, 8172 seats, 94.26% load factor
BUF-FLL - 6668 passengers, 7517 seats, 88.71% load factor
BUF-MCO - 17243 passengers, 20143 seats, 85.60% load factor
BUF-MDW - 7633 passengers, 8727 seats, 87.46% load factor
BUF-PHX - 1299 passengers, 1383 seats, 93.93% load factor
BUF-RSW - 978 passengers, 1001 seats, 97.70% load factor
BUF-TPA - 12611 passengers, 15420 seats, 81.78% load factor
BWI-ROC - 17076 passengers, 17911 seats, 95.34% load factor
MCO-ROC - 733 passengers, 779 seats, 94.09% load factor
ROC-TPA - 905 passengers, 954 seats, 94.86% load factor

Looks like ALB's load factors look great. Hopefully WN could restart FLL, RSW, and LAS from ALB back now.

ROCDLFAN wrote:

DL’s preliminary September schedule is out - ROC and SYR finally are getting some love. SYR Upgauging from the 3 717’s a day to ATL to 3 A320’s. ROC going from 3 717’s to 2 A320’s and 1 738. BUF will be at 4 A321’s a day.

For ROC and SYR, they’ll both be at 11 flights a day. ATL, JFK and DTW capacity will be back to pre pandemic levels with the exception being no morning mainline on DTW. The real lagger at this point, is LGA - which doesn’t surprise me. And, there’s also the matter of MSP being gutted from every upstate city.

For ALB, DL is keeping the 3x a320s on ATL, but DTW goes back to mainline on the Boeing 717s for the RON flight start on September 13th. The other three DTW flights in the day will be operated on the CRJ-900s. MSP is still a wait-and-see if it'll ever return to the upstate airports. We can only hope.

So it seems like Avelo is starting a base in HVN, I know It's too close to Upstate for there to be any real routes. I wonder if that'll have any effect on ALB (if any)

SYRAVGEEK wrote:

So it seems like Avelo is starting a base in HVN, I know It's too close to Upstate for there to be any real routes. I wonder if that'll have any effect on ALB (if any)

It won't have any effect on us in anyway. BDL hurts us way more than HVN. If anything, with Avelo flying to HVN, it'll hurt the ULCC presence in BDL.

AA loaded some minor updates, but it’s worth noting that ROC-MIA has been extended to year round Saturday only with some Friday/Sunday dates mixed in. More importantly, mAAinline is finally returning to ROC with 2X daily A319 service on CLT as of October in addition to a 145 And 175.

albspotter wrote:

ROCDLFAN wrote:

DL’s preliminary September schedule is out - ROC and SYR finally are getting some love. SYR Upgauging from the 3 717’s a day to ATL to 3 A320’s. ROC going from 3 717’s to 2 A320’s and 1 738. BUF will be at 4 A321’s a day.

For ROC and SYR, they’ll both be at 11 flights a day. ATL, JFK and DTW capacity will be back to pre pandemic levels with the exception being no morning mainline on DTW. The real lagger at this point, is LGA - which doesn’t surprise me. And, there’s also the matter of MSP being gutted from every upstate city.

For ALB, DL is keeping the 3x a320s on ATL, but DTW goes back to mainline on the Boeing 717s for the RON flight start on September 13th. The other three DTW flights in the day will be operated on the CRJ-900s. MSP is still a wait-and-see if it'll ever return to the upstate airports. We can only hope.

Delta released a last minute update removing DTW mainline from ALB from September. Let's hope for October now..

F9 announcing ROC/SYR/ALB-MIA 2X weekly beginning November. Looks like all service will be operated by the A320

ROCDLFAN wrote:

F9 announcing ROC/SYR/ALB-MIA 2X weekly beginning November. Looks like all service will be operated by the A320

Looks like the SoFlo market in the upstate airports is expanding a lot. Hopefully this pressures WN to bring back ALB/ROC-FLL and start SYR-FLL.

https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/centr ... cture-bill

Lots of money for upgardes at many New York airpots!

albspotter wrote:

ROCDLFAN wrote:

F9 announcing ROC/SYR/ALB-MIA 2X weekly beginning November. Looks like all service will be operated by the A320

Looks like the SoFlo market in the upstate airports is expanding a lot. Hopefully this pressures WN to bring back ALB/ROC-FLL and start SYR-FLL.

With all this attention on the Northeast to South Florida pax my bet is that we see B6 return SYR-FLL next for the Upstate NY market.

I took the liberty last night of comparing traffic on a random Thursday in December between the US3+WN+B6 at ALB/BUF/ROC/SYR. Obviously the data below is highly tentative due to COVID, especially on business-heavy sectors, like to BOS and NYC. Regardless, I still thought it provides a good comparison between each of the major upstate airports. I didn't count NK/F9/G4 simply because most of their schedules aren't daily and it's somewhat hard to provide a like-for-like comparison on an infrequent schedule.

A few observations:
1) I'm surprised how much larger BUF/SYR/ROC are in terms of number of daily flights compared to ALB. Granted, ALB lacks the multiple daily flights to NYC airports that each other upstate airport has. If you took away the NYC flights on DL/B6, ALB/SYR/ROC would all roughly be the same size. Of all the upstate metro areas, the ALB metro area is the wealthiest, and second largest (after Buffalo, which is only larger by around 30k people). Of course, BUF's traffic is boosted by Canadian traffic, and ALB's traffic is probably hurt by the region's proximity to both NYC and BOS area airports.
2)It's interesting how the use of mainline equipment isn't uniform across each city. Only ALB and BUF appear to have scheduled mainline service to DTW, for example, and ROC lacks mainline service on AA, while SYR appears to lack mainline service on UA's ORD service.
3) I'm surprised at how small WN has gotten at ALB and BUF over the years. BUF's traffic decline is undoubtably related to the drop in Canadian traffic-I recall daily flights to both LAS/PHX pre-pandemic. ALB has lost service to DEN, FLL, and LAS it seems. It's interesting how traffic and yields change with the time...I recall a couple of years back when ALB-LAS was one of Southwest's most profitable routes over 2000 miles.
4) AA has shrunk considerably at BUF. I don't know if it is pandemic related, but I don't remember BUF-CLT being only flown thrice daily.
5) It's interesting to see the lack of Florida service from B6 at other Upstate airports outside of ALB. I thought that BUF/SYR/ROC all had daily year round service to both MCO and FLL on B6...it looks like ALB is the only city to have consistent service, year-round to both MCO and FLL on B6.

ALB: 42 daily flights
AA: 16 daily flights
-DCA: 4x CR7
-ORD: 2x CR7, 1x E175
-CLT: 1x 738, 1x A319, 1x A320
-PHL: 6x E145
Saturday only Miami

DL: 7 daily flights
-ATL: 3x A320
-DTW: 1x 717, 3x CR9

UA: 10 daily flights
-ORD: 1x A319, 1x 73G, 2x CRJ-550
-EWR: 3x CRJ-550
-IAD: 3x E145

WN: 7 daily flights (lost daily TPA, FLL, DEN, LAS, seasonal RSW)
-MCO: 1x 73G
-MDW: 1x 73G, 1x 738
-BWI: 3x 738, 1x 73G
Saturday only TPA

B6: 2 daily flights
-MCO: 1x A320
-FLL: 1x A320

BUF: 67 daily flights
AA: 16 daily flights
-DCA: 3x CR7
-ORD: 4x E175
-CLT: 2x A319, 1x A320
-PHL: 3x E145, 2x E175
-DFW: 1x A319

DL: 18 daily flights
-ATL: 4x 738
-DTW: 4x CR9, 1x A319
-LGA: 4x CR9
-JFK: 1x E175, 3x CR9
-BOS: 1x CR9

UA: 13 daily flights
-ORD: 1x A319, 2x CR2, 1x CRJ-550
-EWR: 5x CRJ-550
-IAD: 4x CR2

WN: 11 daily flights (lost daily LAS, PHX)
-MCO: 1x 738
-MDW: 1x 73G
-BWI: 2x 738, 2x 73G
-FLL: 1x 73G
-TPA: 1x 73G
-DEN: 1x 737 MAX 8
Saturday only RSW, LAS, PHX, SJU

B6: 9 daily flights
-MCO: 1x A320
-LAX: 1x A320
-JFK: 5x E190
-BOS: 2x E190

ROC: 52 daily flights
AA: 19 daily flights
-BOS: 3x E145
-DCA: 3x CR7
-ORD: 4x E175
-CLT: 4x CR9
-PHL: 5x E145
Saturday only Miami

DL: 14 daily flights
-ATL: 3x 738
-DTW: 4x CR9
-JFK: 3x CR9
-LGA: 4x CR9

UA: 13 daily flights
-ORD: 2x A320, 1x E170, 1x CRJ-550
-EWR: 5x CRJ-550
-IAD: 4x CRJ

WN: 3 daily flights
-BWI: 2x 73G, 1x 738
Saturday only MCO

B6:
JFK: 3x E190

SYR: 50 daily flights
AA: 20 daily flights
-BOS: 1x E145
-DCA: 3x CR7, 1x E145
-ORD: 2x CR7, 2x E175
-CLT: 2x 738, 1x CR7, 1x A320
-PHL: 4x E145, 1x E175
-DFW: 1x E175
Saturday only Miami

DL: 12 daily flights
-ATL: 3x 738
-DTW: 4x CR9
-JFK: 2x CR9
-LGA: 2X E170, 1x CR9

UA: 12 daily flights
-ORD: 4x CRJ-550
-EWR: 3x CRJ-550
-IAD: 4x CR2
-DEN: 1x E175

WN: 3 daily flights
-BWI: 3x 73G

B6: 3 daily flights
-JFK: 2x E190
-MCO: 1x E190

Here's the Monroe County annoucement of F9 ROC-MIA 2x weekly.

https://rocairport.com/files/news/2021/ ... 0Miami.pdf

MIA would not have been my first guess for F9's next ROC destination. DEN 2x weekly or FLL 2x weekly seemed to me more likely. But, new service is new service! Also, I wonder how this service might affect AA's 1x weekly ROC-MIA. It probably will depend upon how much of the AA flight is connections.

I still haven't found a picture of Frontier at ROC online yet. I'm going up to ROC soon, and will try to get photos.

Jim

USAirALB wrote:

I took the liberty last night of comparing traffic on a random Thursday in December between the US3+WN+B6 at ALB/BUF/ROC/SYR. Obviously the data below is highly tentative due to COVID, especially on business-heavy sectors, like to BOS and NYC. Regardless, I still thought it provides a good comparison between each of the major upstate airports. I didn't count NK/F9/G4 simply because most of their schedules aren't daily and it's somewhat hard to provide a like-for-like comparison on an infrequent schedule.

A few observations:
1) I'm surprised how much larger BUF/SYR/ROC are in terms of number of daily flights compared to ALB. Granted, ALB lacks the multiple daily flights to NYC airports that each other upstate airport has. If you took away the NYC flights on DL/B6, ALB/SYR/ROC would all roughly be the same size. Of all the upstate metro areas, the ALB metro area is the wealthiest, and second largest (after Buffalo, which is only larger by around 30k people). Of course, BUF's traffic is boosted by Canadian traffic, and ALB's traffic is probably hurt by the region's proximity to both NYC and BOS area airports.
2)It's interesting how the use of mainline equipment isn't uniform across each city. Only ALB and BUF appear to have scheduled mainline service to DTW, for example, and ROC lacks mainline service on AA, while SYR appears to lack mainline service on UA's ORD service.
3) I'm surprised at how small WN has gotten at ALB and BUF over the years. BUF's traffic decline is undoubtably related to the drop in Canadian traffic-I recall daily flights to both LAS/PHX pre-pandemic. ALB has lost service to DEN, FLL, and LAS it seems. It's interesting how traffic and yields change with the time...I recall a couple of years back when ALB-LAS was one of Southwest's most profitable routes over 2000 miles.
4) AA has shrunk considerably at BUF. I don't know if it is pandemic related, but I don't remember BUF-CLT being only flown thrice daily.
5) It's interesting to see the lack of Florida service from B6 at other Upstate airports outside of ALB. I thought that BUF/SYR/ROC all had daily year round service to both MCO and FLL on B6...it looks like ALB is the only city to have consistent service, year-round to both MCO and FLL on B6.

ALB: 42 daily flights
AA: 16 daily flights
-DCA: 4x CR7
-ORD: 2x CR7, 1x E175
-CLT: 1x 738, 1x A319, 1x A320
-PHL: 6x E145
Saturday only Miami

DL: 7 daily flights
-ATL: 3x A320
-DTW: 1x 717, 3x CR9

UA: 10 daily flights
-ORD: 1x A319, 1x 73G, 2x CRJ-550
-EWR: 3x CRJ-550
-IAD: 3x E145

WN: 7 daily flights (lost daily TPA, FLL, DEN, LAS, seasonal RSW)
-MCO: 1x 73G
-MDW: 1x 73G, 1x 738
-BWI: 3x 738, 1x 73G
Saturday only TPA

B6: 2 daily flights
-MCO: 1x A320
-FLL: 1x A320

BUF: 67 daily flights
AA: 16 daily flights
-DCA: 3x CR7
-ORD: 4x E175
-CLT: 2x A319, 1x A320
-PHL: 3x E145, 2x E175
-DFW: 1x A319

DL: 18 daily flights
-ATL: 4x 738
-DTW: 4x CR9, 1x A319
-LGA: 4x CR9
-JFK: 1x E175, 3x CR9
-BOS: 1x CR9

UA: 13 daily flights
-ORD: 1x A319, 2x CR2, 1x CRJ-550
-EWR: 5x CRJ-550
-IAD: 4x CR2

WN: 11 daily flights (lost daily LAS, PHX)
-MCO: 1x 738
-MDW: 1x 73G
-BWI: 2x 738, 2x 73G
-FLL: 1x 73G
-TPA: 1x 73G
-DEN: 1x 737 MAX 8
Saturday only RSW, LAS, PHX, SJU

B6: 9 daily flights
-MCO: 1x A320
-LAX: 1x A320
-JFK: 5x E190
-BOS: 2x E190

ROC: 52 daily flights
AA: 19 daily flights
-BOS: 3x E145
-DCA: 3x CR7
-ORD: 4x E175
-CLT: 4x CR9
-PHL: 5x E145
Saturday only Miami

DL: 14 daily flights
-ATL: 3x 738
-DTW: 4x CR9
-JFK: 3x CR9
-LGA: 4x CR9

UA: 13 daily flights
-ORD: 2x A320, 1x E170, 1x CRJ-550
-EWR: 5x CRJ-550
-IAD: 4x CRJ

WN: 3 daily flights
-BWI: 2x 73G, 1x 738
Saturday only MCO

B6:
JFK: 3x E190

SYR: 50 daily flights
AA: 20 daily flights
-BOS: 1x E145
-DCA: 3x CR7, 1x E145
-ORD: 2x CR7, 2x E175
-CLT: 2x 738, 1x CR7, 1x A320
-PHL: 4x E145, 1x E175
-DFW: 1x E175
Saturday only Miami

DL: 12 daily flights
-ATL: 3x 738
-DTW: 4x CR9
-JFK: 2x CR9
-LGA: 2X E170, 1x CR9

UA: 12 daily flights
-ORD: 4x CRJ-550
-EWR: 3x CRJ-550
-IAD: 4x CR2
-DEN: 1x E175

WN: 3 daily flights
-BWI: 3x 73G

B6: 3 daily flights
-JFK: 2x E190
-MCO: 1x E190

Yeah, those numbers for BUF are down considerably. I believe they used to have almost 100 daily flights. Give or take.

AA used to have 757 / A321 service to charlotte in the mornings pre covid and definitely had a few more flights.


Buffalo I think will get back on track when the boarder officially opens up completely to let Canadians fly out again.

USAirALB wrote:

I took the liberty last night of comparing traffic on a random Thursday in December between the US3+WN+B6 at ALB/BUF/ROC/SYR. Obviously the data below is highly tentative due to COVID, especially on business-heavy sectors, like to BOS and NYC. Regardless, I still thought it provides a good comparison between each of the major upstate airports. I didn't count NK/F9/G4 simply because most of their schedules aren't daily and it's somewhat hard to provide a like-for-like comparison on an infrequent schedule.

A few observations:
1) I'm surprised how much larger BUF/SYR/ROC are in terms of number of daily flights compared to ALB. Granted, ALB lacks the multiple daily flights to NYC airports that each other upstate airport has. If you took away the NYC flights on DL/B6, ALB/SYR/ROC would all roughly be the same size. Of all the upstate metro areas, the ALB metro area is the wealthiest, and second largest (after Buffalo, which is only larger by around 30k people). Of course, BUF's traffic is boosted by Canadian traffic, and ALB's traffic is probably hurt by the region's proximity to both NYC and BOS area airports.
2)It's interesting how the use of mainline equipment isn't uniform across each city. Only ALB and BUF appear to have scheduled mainline service to DTW, for example, and ROC lacks mainline service on AA, while SYR appears to lack mainline service on UA's ORD service.
3) I'm surprised at how small WN has gotten at ALB and BUF over the years. BUF's traffic decline is undoubtably related to the drop in Canadian traffic-I recall daily flights to both LAS/PHX pre-pandemic. ALB has lost service to DEN, FLL, and LAS it seems. It's interesting how traffic and yields change with the time...I recall a couple of years back when ALB-LAS was one of Southwest's most profitable routes over 2000 miles.
4) AA has shrunk considerably at BUF. I don't know if it is pandemic related, but I don't remember BUF-CLT being only flown thrice daily.
5) It's interesting to see the lack of Florida service from B6 at other Upstate airports outside of ALB. I thought that BUF/SYR/ROC all had daily year round service to both MCO and FLL on B6...it looks like ALB is the only city to have consistent service, year-round to both MCO and FLL on B6.

ALB: 42 daily flights
AA: 16 daily flights
-DCA: 4x CR7
-ORD: 2x CR7, 1x E175
-CLT: 1x 738, 1x A319, 1x A320
-PHL: 6x E145
Saturday only Miami

DL: 7 daily flights
-ATL: 3x A320
-DTW: 1x 717, 3x CR9

UA: 10 daily flights
-ORD: 1x A319, 1x 73G, 2x CRJ-550
-EWR: 3x CRJ-550
-IAD: 3x E145

WN: 7 daily flights (lost daily TPA, FLL, DEN, LAS, seasonal RSW)
-MCO: 1x 73G
-MDW: 1x 73G, 1x 738
-BWI: 3x 738, 1x 73G
Saturday only TPA

B6: 2 daily flights
-MCO: 1x A320
-FLL: 1x A320

BUF: 67 daily flights
AA: 16 daily flights
-DCA: 3x CR7
-ORD: 4x E175
-CLT: 2x A319, 1x A320
-PHL: 3x E145, 2x E175
-DFW: 1x A319

DL: 18 daily flights
-ATL: 4x 738
-DTW: 4x CR9, 1x A319
-LGA: 4x CR9
-JFK: 1x E175, 3x CR9
-BOS: 1x CR9

UA: 13 daily flights
-ORD: 1x A319, 2x CR2, 1x CRJ-550
-EWR: 5x CRJ-550
-IAD: 4x CR2

WN: 11 daily flights (lost daily LAS, PHX)
-MCO: 1x 738
-MDW: 1x 73G
-BWI: 2x 738, 2x 73G
-FLL: 1x 73G
-TPA: 1x 73G
-DEN: 1x 737 MAX 8
Saturday only RSW, LAS, PHX, SJU

B6: 9 daily flights
-MCO: 1x A320
-LAX: 1x A320
-JFK: 5x E190
-BOS: 2x E190

ROC: 52 daily flights
AA: 19 daily flights
-BOS: 3x E145
-DCA: 3x CR7
-ORD: 4x E175
-CLT: 4x CR9
-PHL: 5x E145
Saturday only Miami

DL: 14 daily flights
-ATL: 3x 738
-DTW: 4x CR9
-JFK: 3x CR9
-LGA: 4x CR9

UA: 13 daily flights
-ORD: 2x A320, 1x E170, 1x CRJ-550
-EWR: 5x CRJ-550
-IAD: 4x CRJ

WN: 3 daily flights
-BWI: 2x 73G, 1x 738
Saturday only MCO

B6:
JFK: 3x E190

SYR: 50 daily flights
AA: 20 daily flights
-BOS: 1x E145
-DCA: 3x CR7, 1x E145
-ORD: 2x CR7, 2x E175
-CLT: 2x 738, 1x CR7, 1x A320
-PHL: 4x E145, 1x E175
-DFW: 1x E175
Saturday only Miami

DL: 12 daily flights
-ATL: 3x 738
-DTW: 4x CR9
-JFK: 2x CR9
-LGA: 2X E170, 1x CR9

UA: 12 daily flights
-ORD: 4x CRJ-550
-EWR: 3x CRJ-550
-IAD: 4x CR2
-DEN: 1x E175

WN: 3 daily flights
-BWI: 3x 73G

B6: 3 daily flights
-JFK: 2x E190
-MCO: 1x E190

Great list buddy, however I have to critique that we do have DEN service on WN back. It's seasonal until November. Then MCO goes up to 2x a day. Frontier and Allegiant are pretty consistent with their schedules week by week planning out. Also NK hasn't flown to PBG or IAG, the only two upstate airports they flew to since pre-pandemic. I appreciate the hard work! Maybe if you time as well you can add F9/G4, and maybe the other smaller Upstate airports as well! ex: ITH, BGM, ELM, PBG, OGS, etc..

albspotter wrote:

USAirALB wrote:

I took the liberty last night of comparing traffic on a random Thursday in December between the US3+WN+B6 at ALB/BUF/ROC/SYR. Obviously the data below is highly tentative due to COVID, especially on business-heavy sectors, like to BOS and NYC. Regardless, I still thought it provides a good comparison between each of the major upstate airports. I didn't count NK/F9/G4 simply because most of their schedules aren't daily and it's somewhat hard to provide a like-for-like comparison on an infrequent schedule.

A few observations:
1) I'm surprised how much larger BUF/SYR/ROC are in terms of number of daily flights compared to ALB. Granted, ALB lacks the multiple daily flights to NYC airports that each other upstate airport has. If you took away the NYC flights on DL/B6, ALB/SYR/ROC would all roughly be the same size. Of all the upstate metro areas, the ALB metro area is the wealthiest, and second largest (after Buffalo, which is only larger by around 30k people). Of course, BUF's traffic is boosted by Canadian traffic, and ALB's traffic is probably hurt by the region's proximity to both NYC and BOS area airports.
2)It's interesting how the use of mainline equipment isn't uniform across each city. Only ALB and BUF appear to have scheduled mainline service to DTW, for example, and ROC lacks mainline service on AA, while SYR appears to lack mainline service on UA's ORD service.
3) I'm surprised at how small WN has gotten at ALB and BUF over the years. BUF's traffic decline is undoubtably related to the drop in Canadian traffic-I recall daily flights to both LAS/PHX pre-pandemic. ALB has lost service to DEN, FLL, and LAS it seems. It's interesting how traffic and yields change with the time...I recall a couple of years back when ALB-LAS was one of Southwest's most profitable routes over 2000 miles.
4) AA has shrunk considerably at BUF. I don't know if it is pandemic related, but I don't remember BUF-CLT being only flown thrice daily.
5) It's interesting to see the lack of Florida service from B6 at other Upstate airports outside of ALB. I thought that BUF/SYR/ROC all had daily year round service to both MCO and FLL on B6...it looks like ALB is the only city to have consistent service, year-round to both MCO and FLL on B6.

ALB: 42 daily flights
AA: 16 daily flights
-DCA: 4x CR7
-ORD: 2x CR7, 1x E175
-CLT: 1x 738, 1x A319, 1x A320
-PHL: 6x E145
Saturday only Miami

DL: 7 daily flights
-ATL: 3x A320
-DTW: 1x 717, 3x CR9

UA: 10 daily flights
-ORD: 1x A319, 1x 73G, 2x CRJ-550
-EWR: 3x CRJ-550
-IAD: 3x E145

WN: 7 daily flights (lost daily TPA, FLL, DEN, LAS, seasonal RSW)
-MCO: 1x 73G
-MDW: 1x 73G, 1x 738
-BWI: 3x 738, 1x 73G
Saturday only TPA

B6: 2 daily flights
-MCO: 1x A320
-FLL: 1x A320

BUF: 67 daily flights
AA: 16 daily flights
-DCA: 3x CR7
-ORD: 4x E175
-CLT: 2x A319, 1x A320
-PHL: 3x E145, 2x E175
-DFW: 1x A319

DL: 18 daily flights
-ATL: 4x 738
-DTW: 4x CR9, 1x A319
-LGA: 4x CR9
-JFK: 1x E175, 3x CR9
-BOS: 1x CR9

UA: 13 daily flights
-ORD: 1x A319, 2x CR2, 1x CRJ-550
-EWR: 5x CRJ-550
-IAD: 4x CR2

WN: 11 daily flights (lost daily LAS, PHX)
-MCO: 1x 738
-MDW: 1x 73G
-BWI: 2x 738, 2x 73G
-FLL: 1x 73G
-TPA: 1x 73G
-DEN: 1x 737 MAX 8
Saturday only RSW, LAS, PHX, SJU

B6: 9 daily flights
-MCO: 1x A320
-LAX: 1x A320
-JFK: 5x E190
-BOS: 2x E190

ROC: 52 daily flights
AA: 19 daily flights
-BOS: 3x E145
-DCA: 3x CR7
-ORD: 4x E175
-CLT: 4x CR9
-PHL: 5x E145
Saturday only Miami

DL: 14 daily flights
-ATL: 3x 738
-DTW: 4x CR9
-JFK: 3x CR9
-LGA: 4x CR9

UA: 13 daily flights
-ORD: 2x A320, 1x E170, 1x CRJ-550
-EWR: 5x CRJ-550
-IAD: 4x CRJ

WN: 3 daily flights
-BWI: 2x 73G, 1x 738
Saturday only MCO

B6:
JFK: 3x E190

SYR: 50 daily flights
AA: 20 daily flights
-BOS: 1x E145
-DCA: 3x CR7, 1x E145
-ORD: 2x CR7, 2x E175
-CLT: 2x 738, 1x CR7, 1x A320
-PHL: 4x E145, 1x E175
-DFW: 1x E175
Saturday only Miami

DL: 12 daily flights
-ATL: 3x 738
-DTW: 4x CR9
-JFK: 2x CR9
-LGA: 2X E170, 1x CR9

UA: 12 daily flights
-ORD: 4x CRJ-550
-EWR: 3x CRJ-550
-IAD: 4x CR2
-DEN: 1x E175

WN: 3 daily flights
-BWI: 3x 73G

B6: 3 daily flights
-JFK: 2x E190
-MCO: 1x E190

Great list buddy, however I have to critique that we do have DEN service on WN back. It's seasonal until November. Then MCO goes up to 2x a day. Frontier and Allegiant are pretty consistent with their schedules week by week planning out. Also NK hasn't flown to PBG or IAG, the only two upstate airports they flew to since pre-pandemic. I appreciate the hard work! Maybe if you time as well you can add F9/G4, and maybe the other smaller Upstate airports as well! ex: ITH, BGM, ELM, PBG, OGS, etc..

The second MCO flight isn't daily-it's only Saturday only.

As I said above, it's difficult to compare F9/G4/NK between each airport as the schedule isn't daily and you have to compare each essentially by weekly-nothing to do with being consistent week by week.

F9@ALB: 10 weekly flights
MCO: 2x weekly A320
DEN: 2x weekly A320
TPA: 4x weekly A320
MIA: 2x weekly A320

G4@ALB: 6 weekly flights
SFB: 2x weekly A320
PGD: 2x weekly A320
PIE: 2x weekly A320

F9@BUF: 18 weekly flights
RDU: 2x weekly A320
DEN: 3x weekly A320
MIA: 3x weekly A320
MCO: 3x weekly A320
TPA: 4x weekly A320
RSW: 3x weekly A320

F9@SYR: 9 weekly flights
MIA: 2x weekly A320
TPA: 3x weekly A320
MCO: 2x weekly A320
RSW: 4x weekly A320

G4@SYR: 12 weekly flights
PGD: 2x weekly A320
PIE: 2x weekly A320
BNA: 2x weekly A320
SRQ: 2x weekly A320
FLL: 2x weekly A320
SFB: 2x weekly A320

F9@ROC: 5 weekly flights
MCO: 3x weekly A320
MIA: 2x weekly A320

G4@ROC: 3 weekly flights
SFB: 2x weekly A320
PGD: 1x weekly A320

USAirALB--thank you for compiling these figures about daily flights at ALB/BUF/ROC/SYR. Much appreciated to have that information at fingertips. I didn't realize ROC had gone down to one weekly PGD on G4. I wonder if that'll go back up to 2 in the winter.

Also--really impressive G4 and F9 schedules at SYR. I wonder if WN's entry will affect them some. G4 + F9 = 21 weekly and WN = 21 weekly.

G4 is also still flying to IAG.

2x weekly each to PIE, SFB and PGD.

Thank you for that information, JPlatts, numbers are always welcome. I generally don't make time to try to look them up myself, and I appreciate when others do.

Certainly the load factors at all three markets are encouraging, I hope the flights are all making a suitable profit, too.

USAirALB wrote:

2)It's interesting how the use of mainline equipment isn't uniform across each city. Only ALB and BUF appear to have scheduled mainline service to DTW, for example, and ROC lacks mainline service on AA, while SYR appears to lack mainline service on UA's ORD service.
5) It's interesting to see the lack of Florida service from B6 at other Upstate airports outside of ALB. I thought that BUF/SYR/ROC all had daily year round service to both MCO and FLL on B6...it looks like ALB is the only city to have consistent service, year-round to both MCO and FLL on B6.

Some notes re: SYR, the AM UA departure to ORD is mainline again these days; it only stopped for a bit during Covid. IAD also gains a mainline run in September, bumps to 3x daily and upgauges the 7pm flight to a 175 - easily the most capacity I can ever remember seeing to IAD.

Additionally, B6 has operated SYR-MCO at least daily for quite some time.