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qf789
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PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:37 am

Welcome to PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021. Please continue to add your comments below

Link to last thread

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1438053&p=21893789#p21893789
 
LagosLen
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:42 am

As my former 'home' airport, I'll take a shot at a few 2021 PIT predictions...
- American permanently ends Raleigh
- Allegiant adds a new market
- Spirit, Southwest, and JetBlue remain generally status quo
- A new airline commences service like Sun Country or Neilman's Breeze
 
PITfall
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:03 pm

2021 Predictions... nothing too crazy here

-Cargo expansion. Whether it's long-term QR or Cathay service, this is where I think PIT will be able to grow in 2021
-Neighborhood 91 will sign some small tenants
-Allegiant or Spirit add a leisure market
-I am sure there will be some cuts in 2021. Hopefully we retain AS PIT-SEA (this was supposed to go 2X daily in the summer)
 
USAir707
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:13 pm

Everyone is overly optimistic about PIT in 2021... If we maintain what we have right now, that in itself will be a win. Otherwise, i see a bleak picture compared to our competitors both South and West. Our region is stagnant due to political choking of businesses and tourism. My prediction for 2021 is that we have "0" new additions, and quite a number of reductions. I think we will see AS drop SEA service, AA will drop additional service, and I don't think we will see anything "permanent" in terms of cargo service. Yea there might be the one off flight or two, but that is it.
 
Flaps
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:22 pm

Anticipate nothing of significance. The situation is grim.

There are cargo opportunities - At least two potential deals are in various stages of discussion.
CUN and PUJ will return on G4/Apple with reduced frequency but the resumption date keeps slipping.
No new business destinations.
There may be some leisure destination frequency increases.
Chances of new destinations are slim but if any happen it will be from NK and or G4 with G4 most likely.
No new carriers.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:29 pm

On the passenger side "grim" is an accurate outlook. During this pandemic the only real measurement of airport performance is comparison with peer markets, and as has been pointed out several times PIT has been getting pummeled due to the region's poor handling of our pandemic economy. The latest - IND welcomes the entire NCAA tournament, and all the publicity, media attention, charters, fuel sales, etc that come with it. Meanwhile PA's Secretary of Health prevented the Toronto Bluejays from having their entire home season from being played in Pittsburgh. Just one example but the AIRLINES ARE PAYING ATTENTION TO THESE THINGS!!!

Just a couple years ago we were talking about how PIT-CUN was over served. Now we see that IND-CUN will have both AA and WN this spring. PIT will have neither. NK has resumed CLE-CUN. NK continues to push PIT-CUN back. Will B6 ever begin PIT-PBI? I doubt it.

Nov numbers are out, down 65.5%
https://flypittsburgh.com/wp-content/up ... Report.pdf

Predictions:
-B6: Might never begin PBI, FLL continues at reduced frequency.
-G4: Has yet to begin the previously announced ORF and MEM. ORF may begin as a seasonal service due to the region's strong appeal towards the OBX.
-NK: CUN might begin as a seasonal service.
-Breeze: Bypasses PIT until they gain some significant critical mass due to the reasons I explained above. When B6 first entered PIT they were underwhelmed with PIT's performance. I heard this directly from Neeleman and I have no reason to believe he has a bad memory. I'd give them a few years before they look at PIT.
-The only interesting prospect IMHO is to see what Condor does, and what BA does or doesn't do in other medium size markets.
-PIT will fall behind CLE and IND in yearly passenger numbers for a couple years. What the region really needs is an immediate return of the energy industry and one of the tech companies to grow exponentially in the local area. PNC continuing their growth would be awesome and Key Bank would make a great acquisition.
Of course I'd like to be proven wrong about the grimness.

On the cargo side I predict a much brighter outlook.
-We already know about the talks the forwarders are having with QR and CX. I'm sure the ACAA is talking to many others... Cassotis already said as much.
-Prime Air and DHL are both fair game to be added
-Plans/diagrams for Cargo 4 should be released soon.
I see no reason why all of the above can't happen.
 
Jshank83
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:09 pm

flyPIT wrote:

Just a couple years ago we were talking about how PIT-CUN was over served. Now we see that IND-CUN will have both AA and WN this spring. PIT will have neither. NK has resumed CLE-CUN. NK continues to push PIT-CUN back.

Predictions:
-G4: Has yet to begin the previously announced ORF and MEM. ORF may begin as a seasonal service due to the region's strong appeal towards the OBX.
-NK: CUN might begin as a seasonal service.


NK has CUN slated to start next month. Have they been pushing it back this close in?

I do see G4 is running weekly charters PIT-CUN/PUJ starting in March.
https://www.applevacations.com/flights- ... sburgh/#!/
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:28 pm

Yes IIRC when NK previously pushed back CUN it was fairly close in. We’ll see what happens this time but the point was it’s an example of PIT service lagging a similar market under the current circumstances.
 
Flaps
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:05 am

flyPIT wrote:
On the passenger side "grim" is an accurate outlook. During this pandemic the only real measurement of airport performance is comparison with peer markets, and as has been pointed out several times PIT has been getting pummeled due to the region's poor handling of our pandemic economy. The latest - IND welcomes the entire NCAA tournament, and all the publicity, media attention, charters, fuel sales, etc that come with it. Meanwhile PA's Secretary of Health prevented the Toronto Bluejays from having their entire home season from being played in Pittsburgh. Just one example but the AIRLINES ARE PAYING ATTENTION TO THESE THINGS!!!

Just a couple years ago we were talking about how PIT-CUN was over served. Now we see that IND-CUN will have both AA and WN this spring. PIT will have neither. NK has resumed CLE-CUN. NK continues to push PIT-CUN back. Will B6 ever begin PIT-PBI? I doubt it.

Nov numbers are out, down 65.5%
https://flypittsburgh.com/wp-content/up ... Report.pdf

Predictions:
-B6: Might never begin PBI, FLL continues at reduced frequency.
-G4: Has yet to begin the previously announced ORF and MEM. ORF may begin as a seasonal service due to the region's strong appeal towards the OBX.
-NK: CUN might begin as a seasonal service.
-Breeze: Bypasses PIT until they gain some significant critical mass due to the reasons I explained above. When B6 first entered PIT they were underwhelmed with PIT's performance. I heard this directly from Neeleman and I have no reason to believe he has a bad memory. I'd give them a few years before they look at PIT.
-The only interesting prospect IMHO is to see what Condor does, and what BA does or doesn't do in other medium size markets.
-PIT will fall behind CLE and IND in yearly passenger numbers for a couple years. What the region really needs is an immediate return of the energy industry and one of the tech companies to grow exponentially in the local area. PNC continuing their growth would be awesome and Key Bank would make a great acquisition.
Of course I'd like to be proven wrong about the grimness.

On the cargo side I predict a much brighter outlook.
-We already know about the talks the forwarders are having with QR and CX. I'm sure the ACAA is talking to many others... Cassotis already said as much.
-Prime Air and DHL are both fair game to be added
-Plans/diagrams for Cargo 4 should be released soon.
I see no reason why all of the above can't happen.


This assessment is pretty much spot on. I wish I could discuss why I know this but I am limited in my ability to disclose. I can't speak for Condor but BA remains interested in the market. They have renewed their leases and are serious about their intentions to return when the market allows. When the market allows unfortunately is a very subjective matter. The route cannot survive on leisure traffic alone. The front cabins need to be reasonably full (in the 60-70% paid range) to make this route work. Eight out of the first twelve months of the route this was achieved. Bookings for year two were looking very good before covid hit. How the business and local markets rebound will determine the timing of any BA return. The departure of the Wolf administration cannot come soon enough.
 
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qf789
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:45 am

Could we please just discuss the topic and keep the political comments out of the discussion. Politics is to be left to the non aviation forum only and if it continues in this thread warnings and/or bans will be handed out
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:59 am

Flaps wrote:
I can't speak for Condor but BA remains interested in the market. They have renewed their leases and are serious about their intentions to return when the market allows. When the market allows unfortunately is a very subjective matter. The route cannot survive on leisure traffic alone. The front cabins need to be reasonably full (in the 60-70% paid range) to make this route work. Eight out of the first twelve months of the route this was achieved. Bookings for year two were looking very good before covid hit.


This is encouraging to read. Kind of confirms my suspicion that BA's long haul drops are a matter of last added - first dropped. PIT is in some pretty good company looking at some of the others that were dropped such as ICN, KIX, YYC, etc. I believe CHS also did well.

So if things can get to some semblance of normalcy by the summer there could be a bit of an opportunity for Condor at PIT without BA. To think they were going to use 400 seat A330s to PIT this past summer..... :-(
 
PITfall
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:14 pm

The region should see a strong rebound. PNC's large acquisition is a big win for the area. They should remain HQ'd in Pittsburgh for the long-haul.

We are seeing a dispersion of the tech concentration in the Bay Area, notably Oracle moving HQ to Austin. Hopefully other tech companies see the cost of living in Pittsburgh as attractive and we can pickup some jobs. There is a large amount of new office space coming online in Pittsburgh at a very difficult time to fill office space. Here is to hoping that the existing Pittsburgh companies don't just shift offices from Location X to Location Y and that we can actually bring in new companies/jobs to fill the space.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:10 am

"Despite pandemic, Southwest Airlines still keen on Pittsburgh"
https://www.post-gazette.com/business/d ... 2101050158

A bit of an overzealous headline and article. I remember about 5 years ago one of the top WN execs was in town and stated much of the same. They wanted to be "the dominant carrier in Pittsburgh" and "We can do more in Pittsburgh" the article I posted back then quoted. In the time since WN hasn't done squat here; in fact WN still remains smaller than the combined WN/FL. Too many words such as "may", "look for opportunities", "thinking", "potential" and not enough actual growth. Pre-Covid of course.
 
gdavis003
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:20 am

PITfall wrote:
The region should see a strong rebound. PNC's large acquisition is a big win for the area. They should remain HQ'd in Pittsburgh for the long-haul.

We are seeing a dispersion of the tech concentration in the Bay Area, notably Oracle moving HQ to Austin. Hopefully other tech companies see the cost of living in Pittsburgh as attractive and we can pickup some jobs. There is a large amount of new office space coming online in Pittsburgh at a very difficult time to fill office space. Here is to hoping that the existing Pittsburgh companies don't just shift offices from Location X to Location Y and that we can actually bring in new companies/jobs to fill the space.


BBVA has most of their tech jobs in BHM, and it’s essentially their secondary HQ. I hope that PNC is able to keep most jobs in BHM and transform the infrastructure that BBVA has laid in the BHM area into a large regional HQ. Wouldn’t be surprised to see BHM-PIT service actually happen this time with an airline like Breeze or someone else
 
PITfall
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:04 am

flyPIT wrote:
"Despite pandemic, Southwest Airlines still keen on Pittsburgh"
https://www.post-gazette.com/business/d ... 2101050158

A bit of an overzealous headline and article. I remember about 5 years ago one of the top WN execs was in town and stated much of the same. They wanted to be "the dominant carrier in Pittsburgh" and "We can do more in Pittsburgh" the article I posted back then quoted. In the time since WN hasn't done squat here; in fact WN still remains smaller than the combined WN/FL. Too many words such as "may", "look for opportunities", "thinking", "potential" and not enough actual growth. Pre-Covid of course.


Thought the same exact thing. Reminded me of this article.

https://blueskypit.com/2019/04/18/south ... ss-travel/
 
USAir707
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 06, 2021 3:50 pm

What ever happened to the guy from OneJet? Wasn't the ACAA trying to recoup the money from him?
 
LagosLen
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:14 am

USAir707 wrote:
What ever happened to the guy from OneJet? Wasn't the ACAA trying to recoup the money from him?

Bankruptcy proceedings ongoing; FBI also opened criminal investigation into Matt Maguire this past fall for securities fraud.
 
USAir707
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:34 am

LagosLen wrote:
USAir707 wrote:
What ever happened to the guy from OneJet? Wasn't the ACAA trying to recoup the money from him?

Bankruptcy proceedings ongoing; FBI also opened criminal investigation into Matt Maguire this past fall for securities fraud.


Such a shame. Prior to the addition of the Embraer's, I thought they had a solid operation. I can't remember, but if someone can fill me in I would appreciate it. Was OneJet ever profitable or was the entire endeavor a failure from the start?
 
LagosLen
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:44 am

USAir707 wrote:
LagosLen wrote:
USAir707 wrote:
What ever happened to the guy from OneJet? Wasn't the ACAA trying to recoup the money from him?

Bankruptcy proceedings ongoing; FBI also opened criminal investigation into Matt Maguire this past fall for securities fraud.


Such a shame. Prior to the addition of the Embraer's, I thought they had a solid operation. I can't remember, but if someone can fill me in I would appreciate it. Was OneJet ever profitable or was the entire endeavor a failure from the start?

Very doubtful on a network-wide level. On a route level P&L basis, a couple could have been marginally profitable like PIT-BDL especially on popular days of the week for their corporate customers like Mondays, Thursdays, and Fridays. A big issue would have been the block hour operating cost of the Hawker relative to the number of seats it has. Almost certainly $1.5-$2k per hour, it’s difficult to turn a profit with a maximum of seven passengers.
 
Robert1010
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:28 pm

Inbound UA 772 & 738 from CLE , Browns actually flying this time , really surprised !
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:48 am

Condor finalized their Summer 2021 schedules, PIT is axed.
https://www.condor.com/us/generated/timetable_S2021.pdf

Looks like a fairly complete schedule compared to 2019 actually, with the exception of PIT and MSY
 
USAir707
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:41 am

flyPIT wrote:
Condor finalized their Summer 2021 schedules, PIT is axed.
https://www.condor.com/us/generated/timetable_S2021.pdf

Looks like a fairly complete schedule compared to 2019 actually, with the exception of PIT and MSY


No shocker here. Going from 3 transatlantic destinations to zero is about on-par for our region. (KEF / CDG / FRA).

I really think we will see BA come back in 2023-2024, but nothing until then.
 
USAir707
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:46 am

I have a question that really bothers me about PIT and our service at the moment. I know airlines have scaled back across the board, but most, if not all have been packed (one flight to LGA on a weekend early in the morning was the exception, but still a decent load).

People are obviously traveling for personal reasons, vacation, or work. However, I cannot get a late night connection back into PIT. Flights I look at into various airports (IAD / ORD / LGA / etc) and then connecting on to PIT don't exist and require an overnight layover.... My biggest grip is IAD and NYC area. If your flight arrives into those cities at 4pm or later, you are stuck overnighting until the following morning. Why doesn't UA throw an RJ on a late night flight to bring in the final load, or DL add an additional RJ on the LGA-PIT for the overseas inbound flights?

I know a ton of people, myself included, who are forced to end their trips in IAD and drive back to PIT instead of overnighting. We literally have ZERO connecting late night options from any major airline hub.
 
Flaps
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:31 pm

USAir707 wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
Condor finalized their Summer 2021 schedules, PIT is axed.
https://www.condor.com/us/generated/timetable_S2021.pdf

Looks like a fairly complete schedule compared to 2019 actually, with the exception of PIT and MSY


No shocker here. Going from 3 transatlantic destinations to zero is about on-par for our region. (KEF / CDG / FRA).

I really think we will see BA come back in 2023-2024, but nothing until then.


You forgot LHR.
 
Flaps
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:56 pm

USAir707 wrote:
I have a question that really bothers me about PIT and our service at the moment. I know airlines have scaled back across the board, but most, if not all have been packed (one flight to LGA on a weekend early in the morning was the exception, but still a decent load).

People are obviously traveling for personal reasons, vacation, or work. However, I cannot get a late night connection back into PIT. Flights I look at into various airports (IAD / ORD / LGA / etc) and then connecting on to PIT don't exist and require an overnight layover.... My biggest grip is IAD and NYC area. If your flight arrives into those cities at 4pm or later, you are stuck overnighting until the following morning. Why doesn't UA throw an RJ on a late night flight to bring in the final load, or DL add an additional RJ on the LGA-PIT for the overseas inbound flights?

I know a ton of people, myself included, who are forced to end their trips in IAD and drive back to PIT instead of overnighting. We literally have ZERO connecting late night options from any major airline hub.


You'll have to really examine what you consider to be a ton. Are there at least 50 people per day/250-350 per week that are looking for that schedule? PIT business demand is nearly non-existant right now and yields are horrific. If there truly were such demand at those times at a reasonable yield the flights would be there. PIT is getting hit harder than many similar markets due to the onerous covid restrictions in place by the state of PA. Even VFR traffic is struggling because its mostly one way, outbound from PIT. The normal inbound PIT VFR traffic is being stifled due to there being so many restrictions on what people can do once they get here. 0.

Another trend that I am noting is that bookings are being done very close in which makes schedule planning difficult. I don't have access to every airline's numbers but for those that I do the amount of bookings occurring within 2 weeks of departure is shocking. For example Flight 123 to XYZ might be showing 37 pax booked for 01/17 on 1/7 but come day of departure there are 117 pax actually travelling. With restrictions and conditions in a high state of flux people are simply waiting as long as possible to commit. That makes things very difficult for schedule planners. Any thoughts of entertaining "build it and they will come" philosophies these days are out the window. Its more like "if its there we'll see if it stays there awhile and then maybe we will build it".
 
RJNUT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:35 pm

Condor becomes much less of an attractive option should LH sever ties and does not allow domestic and regional connections at FRA according to this article, so probably not a big loss anyway

https://onemileatatime.com/lufthansa-co ... ip,flights%2
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:34 pm

RJNUT wrote:
Condor becomes much less of an attractive option should LH sever ties and does not allow domestic and regional connections at FRA according to this article, so probably not a big loss anyway

https://onemileatatime.com/lufthansa-co ... ip,flights%2


I wouldn’t say Condor isn’t a big loss. They are our last nonstop to Europe. That is a huge loss and hole in our network regardless of who they are or aren’t affiliated with.

I’m quite surprised they pulled the plug here, like I said a couple weeks ago I thought they had an opportunity here without competition from BA. Especially surprising since all their other NA markets will be served except MSY. The business demand here just must be as bad as we think it is during current and near times.
 
RJNUT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:54 pm

in terms of status of having nonstops to Europe , yes it is a big loss but my point is that its usability will be greatly reduced with a loss of LH connectivity in FRA. Very few people go just to FRA ,Its more of a connecting point for travelers than a destination. and the ability to offer beyond connections onto LH a/c was a huge selling point . without it, not so much.
 
USAir707
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:55 am

I agree with everything you guys said above.

@RJNut - I agree. When I was constantly traveling to Europe, I was always connecting in FRA or ZRH, but never found myself traveling directly to FRA. I found this to be true with many people on the flight regardless of originating city. FRA is a WONDERFUL springboard to all of Europe. Losing a connection option will absolutely make it unattractive. Especially if you have travelers from the US going outbound who don't have Schengen Visa's, and would therefore need to re-check bags, etc, which couldn't be done.

@Flaps - I didn't include LHR as that came long after our trifecta of routes we had at one given time, which was KEF / FRA / CDG. We were so incredibly lucky at that time.

@Flaps again - I totally agree and understand. We are insanely restrictive. Their requirement to "quarantine" when returning to PA is laughable. Yea... Ok.... I "quarantine" in the 15-20 minute drive in my car from the airport parking lot to wherever i am going. But you are right about folks booking last minute. All of our trips have been booked a few days up until at most 10 days out. But from a demand standpoint, from myself and others I know, how are airlines supposed to "gauge" demand when there is no flight to test it out. I would bet my last dollar that if DL had a late night flight from NYC or UA had late night one from IAD, that it would be at least 70-80% load if not 100%. Many people are upset and in a precarious position because they don't care about price and just want to fly into their home (PIT), but cannot. Let's be honest. If you arrive from a long flight into IAD, and it is only 5pm, do you really want to leave the airport, get a hotel, spend the night, go back to the airport, check in, do security, go to gate, and fly home the next day, when the drive itself is 4 hours... But who wants to drive an additional 4 hours after 8,10,12,16 hours flying? UA really needs to step their game up and examine a late night flight from IAD-PIT.
 
inlikepitt
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:40 pm

Allegiant to commence PIT-ORF service on June 3rd

https://ir.allegiantair.com/news-releas ... ew-nonstop
 
UPS Pilot
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:35 pm

PITfall wrote:
The region should see a strong rebound. PNC's large acquisition is a big win for the area. They should remain HQ'd in Pittsburgh for the long-haul.

We are seeing a dispersion of the tech concentration in the Bay Area, notably Oracle moving HQ to Austin. Hopefully other tech companies see the cost of living in Pittsburgh as attractive and we can pickup some jobs. There is a large amount of new office space coming online in Pittsburgh at a very difficult time to fill office space. Here is to hoping that the existing Pittsburgh companies don't just shift offices from Location X to Location Y and that we can actually bring in new companies/jobs to fill the space.


Most Tech companies have had a strong presence in the Austin Area for over 30 years. That's why Austin's growth has sky rocketed. Cost of living in Pittsburgh isn't advantageous. Texas has no state income tax. PA does. A number of tech companies have out posted employees. Office space all over the country will be available with people working from home. I'd love to see Pittsburgh grow. I grew up there when it was the steel mecca of the world. KPIT was bustling with activity. When US Airways pulled the plug, the airport never recovered. Now we have the pandemic. I don't see much growth other than cargo.

Amazon was mentioned. Amazon cut flights in TPA and added a regional hub and flights in KLAL. KLAL is in between MCO and TPA. It was a small airport that is growing with Amazon. Amazon may use a smaller airport with less traffic but enough room for them at a lower cost. They can truck it to PIT or use the UPS network to get it to PIT for Prime deliveries.

I'd give anything to see PIT back to its glory days.
 
USAir707
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:47 pm

UPS Pilot wrote:

I'd give anything to see PIT back to its glory days.


I couldn't agree more. I miss being young and running around the "newly opened" PIT. I remember the departures screen was filed with destinations large and small, and it was great seeing those shiny silver USAir DC-9's, MD-80's, Fokker's, etc. Not to mention all the random little express aircraft over in Concourse E. I remember when US launched their first new Airbus in the dark blue color scheme, but it had yet to make it over to the US. I was wandering around the airport taking photos, and I couldn't believe my eyes. A brand new A-320 (or maybe A319) pulled into a gate that was unoccupied. I am assuming it was a practice/training flight, but man, I think I went through two rolls of film shooting that bird coming in. haha. That shows my age (film). lol.
 
inlikepitt
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:09 am

I don't recall USAir ever operating the MD-80. DC-9's, F-100's and early gen 737's made up all of most of the domestic mainline fleet. Once they became US Airways in 1997, the 757,'s, 767's and Airbus aircraft came along.
 
USPIT10L
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:13 am

Yes, they did. The MD-80s came from PSA. US flew them on routes like PITATL, PITALB, PITBOS, PITMCO, PITBUF and PITCLT, to name a few. Additionally, the 757s began arriving in 1992. By 2000, you could tell which planes were getting US Airways titles and which ones weren't. All the DC-9s and MD-80s never had US Airways titles on them, still bare-metal USAir.
 
inlikepitt
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:49 am

USPIT10L wrote:
Yes, they did. The MD-80s came from PSA. US flew them on routes like PITATL, PITALB, PITBOS, PITMCO, PITBUF and PITCLT, to name a few. Additionally, the 757s began arriving in 1992. By 2000, you could tell which planes were getting US Airways titles and which ones weren't. All the DC-9s and MD-80s never had US Airways titles on them, still bare-metal USAir.


Got it. Thanks for clarifying for me.
 
USAir707
Posts: 60
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:21 am

USPIT10L wrote:
Yes, they did. The MD-80s came from PSA. US flew them on routes like PITATL, PITALB, PITBOS, PITMCO, PITBUF and PITCLT, to name a few. Additionally, the 757s began arriving in 1992. By 2000, you could tell which planes were getting US Airways titles and which ones weren't. All the DC-9s and MD-80s never had US Airways titles on them, still bare-metal USAir.


Actually, you are "partially" right about the "titles".... USAir/USAirways did operate a few DC's with the bare metal, but with the new blue USAirways tail and name on the body. =) They were unique looking!
 
PITfall
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:45 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:59 pm

UPS Pilot wrote:
PITfall wrote:
The region should see a strong rebound. PNC's large acquisition is a big win for the area. They should remain HQ'd in Pittsburgh for the long-haul.

We are seeing a dispersion of the tech concentration in the Bay Area, notably Oracle moving HQ to Austin. Hopefully other tech companies see the cost of living in Pittsburgh as attractive and we can pickup some jobs. There is a large amount of new office space coming online in Pittsburgh at a very difficult time to fill office space. Here is to hoping that the existing Pittsburgh companies don't just shift offices from Location X to Location Y and that we can actually bring in new companies/jobs to fill the space.


Most Tech companies have had a strong presence in the Austin Area for over 30 years. That's why Austin's growth has sky rocketed. Cost of living in Pittsburgh isn't advantageous. Texas has no state income tax. PA does. A number of tech companies have out posted employees. Office space all over the country will be available with people working from home. I'd love to see Pittsburgh grow. I grew up there when it was the steel mecca of the world. KPIT was bustling with activity. When US Airways pulled the plug, the airport never recovered. Now we have the pandemic. I don't see much growth other than cargo.

Amazon was mentioned. Amazon cut flights in TPA and added a regional hub and flights in KLAL. KLAL is in between MCO and TPA. It was a small airport that is growing with Amazon. Amazon may use a smaller airport with less traffic but enough room for them at a lower cost. They can truck it to PIT or use the UPS network to get it to PIT for Prime deliveries.

I'd give anything to see PIT back to its glory days.


I do not think that PIT is going to start getting tech HQs. However, we can hopefully continues to see a steady expansion. Just as examples, both Microsoft and Apple were looking to expand their Pittsburgh offices prior to COVID. The cost of living in Pittsburgh is absolutely a positive for tech companies. It may not be as attractive as Austin given the tax implications, but it is still a positive as companies are looking for new office space.
 
tooluther
Posts: 203
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:21 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:02 pm

Good lord. Is this thread back to steel and US Air nostalgia again?

Its been 40 years since big steel was a relevant concern to the region. Almost 20 since we lost the hub.

Time to look to the future folks. THAT's what Austin has going on right now. Shoot where the puck is going...
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:05 pm

"And then there were none: COVID-19 cripples Pittsburgh airport's trans-Atlantic service "
https://www.post-gazette.com/business/d ... 2101140086


"In a statement, the airport authority said it was working with Condor “to determine the right time to resume service."
I'm kinda tired of hearing that talking point. It is exactly what they said about BA.


"Airlines and airports continue to be faced with travel restrictions globally amid the ongoing pandemic and we anticipate that our international carriers, specifically, will continue to adjust dates and schedules as the effects of the pandemic evolve this year,” spokesman Bob Kerlik said."
Same with this talking point. Pandemic related travel restrictions are not limited to Pittsburgh. The fact remains that both BA and DE will be resuming all their US cities.... except for PIT... and CHS/MSY respectively.

It would be so refreshing to here the ACAA state the fact that the Pittsburgh region is facing economic challenges compared to our peer cities which is affecting air service. But that of course does not fit Allegheny County's narrative.



Anyone know the story behind this Allegiant flight from Trois-Rivieres, Quebec (YRQ)?
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAY ... /CYRQ/KPIT

The 9xxx flight number suggests a ferry flt but looking further it also flew YUL-YRQ with a 9xxx flight number.
I found it interesting because "Trois-Rivieres" translates to "Three Rivers".
 
Flaps
Posts: 1738
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2000 1:11 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:17 pm

flyPIT wrote:
"And then there were none: COVID-19 cripples Pittsburgh airport's trans-Atlantic service "
https://www.post-gazette.com/business/d ... 2101140086


"In a statement, the airport authority said it was working with Condor “to determine the right time to resume service."
I'm kinda tired of hearing that talking point. It is exactly what they said about BA.


"Airlines and airports continue to be faced with travel restrictions globally amid the ongoing pandemic and we anticipate that our international carriers, specifically, will continue to adjust dates and schedules as the effects of the pandemic evolve this year,” spokesman Bob Kerlik said."
Same with this talking point. Pandemic related travel restrictions are not limited to Pittsburgh. The fact remains that both BA and DE will be resuming all their US cities.... except for PIT... and CHS/MSY respectively.

It would be so refreshing to here the ACAA state the fact that the Pittsburgh region is facing economic challenges compared to our peer cities which is affecting air service. But that of course does not fit Allegheny County's narrative.



Anyone know the story behind this Allegiant flight from Trois-Rivieres, Quebec (YRQ)?
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAY ... /CYRQ/KPIT

The 9xxx flight number suggests a ferry flt but looking further it also flew YUL-YRQ with a 9xxx flight number.
I found it interesting because "Trois-Rivieres" translates to "Three Rivers".


MX ferry flight. Returning to service from MX visit in YRQ. Needed to make a customs stop as YRQ does not have pre-clearance.
 
masseybrown
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Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:47 pm

flyPIT wrote:
"In a statement, the airport authority said it was working with Condor “to determine the right time to resume service."
I'm kinda tired of hearing that talking point. It is exactly what they said about BA.

It would be so refreshing to here the ACAA state the fact that the Pittsburgh region is facing economic challenges compared to our peer cities which is affecting air service. But that of course does not fit Allegheny County's narrative.


Cheer up. ;) Based on just a seat-of-the-pants feel for the economy, I suspect business travel will come back faster than current gloomy forecasts suggest. There is reason to be optimistic for 2022. Further, I think the reason PIT's traffic is more depressed than other places is because driving to more of Pittsburgh's top business destinations is easier than it is from those other places.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:14 pm

masseybrown wrote:
Cheer up. ;) Based on just a seat-of-the-pants feel for the economy, I suspect business travel will come back faster than current gloomy forecasts suggest. There is reason to be optimistic for 2022. Further, I think the reason PIT's traffic is more depressed than other places is because driving to more of Pittsburgh's top business destinations is easier than it is from those other places.


We'll see what happens wrt business travel. I do think it will come back at some point. Long term, Zoom isn't gonna kill business travel just like the fax machine didn't kill FedEx. The point about PIT being at a disadvantage due to its close proximity to other business markets is valid... but that has always been the case. Opposite from Kansas City and New Orleans which always had higher dependence on air service because there is only one or two major cities within an easy drive and their airport numbers have shown it.
 
Teeeye81
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:28 pm

Nice TA-4 sitting at Atlantic today. Came in yesterday. Got a picture but can’t post it due to....... being old I guess. Oh well maybe somebody else got it.
 
 
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flyPIT
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:39 am

PITfall wrote:
https://www.post-gazette.com/business/development/2021/01/15/Allegheny-County-Airport-Authority-Christina-Cassotis-Pittsburgh-International-contract-bonus-extension/stories/202101150163


Wow that is an absurd amount of money. Plus a retroactive bonus for 2019?!? I remember posting back then when she did not get a bonus for 2019 that it wasn't warranted. There were some headline failures such as Qatar Airways cargo pulling out after taking an enormous subsidy and the Wow Air failure (although that is obviously not her fault). This was on the heals of the OneJet debacle (which was a horrible business plan) and that very expensive one-off China charter that cost $1.5 million. The big bright spot was the launch of BA service, but that was announced in 2018 in which she received a bonus for that year as well. Why on Earth is she getting a bonus for 2019 in 2021??? She's a tough negotiator no doubt.

So in 2021 if she gets a bonus valued at 45% of her base salary as the article states her total compensation will be $594,819.
 
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klm617
Posts: 5467
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Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:21 pm

Just curious on people's thoughts and hind sight is 20/20 but do you guys think PIT would have been better off now throwing all their support behind Delta and their PIT-CDG rather than trying to attract as much as they could TATL wise and driving Delta out of the market ?
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5426
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:31 pm

flyPIT wrote:
"And then there were none: COVID-19 cripples Pittsburgh airport's trans-Atlantic service "
https://www.post-gazette.com/business/d ... 2101140086


"In a statement, the airport authority said it was working with Condor “to determine the right time to resume service."
I'm kinda tired of hearing that talking point. It is exactly what they said about BA.


"Airlines and airports continue to be faced with travel restrictions globally amid the ongoing pandemic and we anticipate that our international carriers, specifically, will continue to adjust dates and schedules as the effects of the pandemic evolve this year,” spokesman Bob Kerlik said."
Same with this talking point. Pandemic related travel restrictions are not limited to Pittsburgh. The fact remains that both BA and DE will be resuming all their US cities.... except for PIT... and CHS/MSY respectively.


I'm surprised some of the "smaller" markets are keeping their TATL service. Is there THAT much of a draw to AUS, BNA, and MSY?
 
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flyPIT
Posts: 2200
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:35 pm

klm617 wrote:
Just curious on people's thoughts and hind sight is 20/20 but do you guys think PIT would have been better off now throwing all their support behind Delta and their PIT-CDG rather than trying to attract as much as they could TATL wise and driving Delta out of the market ?


No. PIT threw all its support behind DL for 8 or so years without any competition. All DL offered during that time was high priced seasonal service, and most of that was less than daily. Even if WW, DE, and BA never entered PIT, DL would be offering the same service they are currently offering IND and CVG - none.

LHR is a better O&D market and was year round and will hopefully return.
KEF was a huge surprise wrt the O&D it generated. Half those pax were going to Iceland. For that reason alone I’d like to see the route return, perhaps 2x weekly.
FRA is a large local market and DE offered a nice alternative.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 4588
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:15 am

DeltaRules wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
"And then there were none: COVID-19 cripples Pittsburgh airport's trans-Atlantic service "
https://www.post-gazette.com/business/d ... 2101140086


"In a statement, the airport authority said it was working with Condor “to determine the right time to resume service."
I'm kinda tired of hearing that talking point. It is exactly what they said about BA.


"Airlines and airports continue to be faced with travel restrictions globally amid the ongoing pandemic and we anticipate that our international carriers, specifically, will continue to adjust dates and schedules as the effects of the pandemic evolve this year,” spokesman Bob Kerlik said."
Same with this talking point. Pandemic related travel restrictions are not limited to Pittsburgh. The fact remains that both BA and DE will be resuming all their US cities.... except for PIT... and CHS/MSY respectively.


I'm surprised some of the "smaller" markets are keeping their TATL service. Is there THAT much of a draw to AUS, BNA, and MSY?


BNA and AUS have a lot more air traffic than PIT. So yes.

2019 numbers.
BNA - 18.3 mil
AUS - 17.3 mil
MSY - 13.4 mil
PIT - 9.8 mil
 
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flyPIT
Posts: 2200
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: PIT Update Discussion Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:23 pm

NK will be gradually bringing back nearly all its pre-Covid traffic at LBE by March. Daily to MCO, FLL, MYR and 2x weekly to RSW. The only flight missing is the seasonal to TPA.
https://triblive.com/local/westmoreland ... tle-beach/


Pennsylvania stinking out the joint once again.. this time in terms of in-migration. Contrast that to the states of PIT's main peer markets, namely OH and IN.
https://www.uhaul.com/Articles/About/22 ... on-Growth/
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