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Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:41 am

Welcome to Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021. Please continue to add your comments below

Link to last thread

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1438009&p=21893547#p21893547
 
CowAnon
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Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:24 pm

"Paine Field makes short list of airports that could grow," Everett Herald, 1/25:

    OLYMPIA — Paine Field in Everett is on an early list of airports that Washington officials are eyeing for future expansion to meet air travel demand as the state’s commercial aviation industry recovers from the COVID-19 pandemic.

    A state commission named the Snohomish County-owned airport as one of six potential candidates, alongside Arlington Municipal Airport, Bremerton National Airport, Sanderson Field in Shelton, Tacoma Narrows Airport in Gig Harbor and Ed Carlson Memorial Field in Lewis County.

https://www.heraldnet.com/business/paine-field-makes-short-list-of-airports-that-could-grow/

The Shelton and Lewis County candidates strike me as odd. Not listed is Bellingham's airport, which is a lot closer to where I live and already has commercial passenger service.
 
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gunsontheroof
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Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:07 am

CowAnon wrote:
"Paine Field makes short list of airports that could grow," Everett Herald, 1/25:

    OLYMPIA — Paine Field in Everett is on an early list of airports that Washington officials are eyeing for future expansion to meet air travel demand as the state’s commercial aviation industry recovers from the COVID-19 pandemic.

    A state commission named the Snohomish County-owned airport as one of six potential candidates, alongside Arlington Municipal Airport, Bremerton National Airport, Sanderson Field in Shelton, Tacoma Narrows Airport in Gig Harbor and Ed Carlson Memorial Field in Lewis County.

https://www.heraldnet.com/business/paine-field-makes-short-list-of-airports-that-could-grow/

The Shelton and Lewis County candidates strike me as odd. Not listed is Bellingham's airport, which is a lot closer to where I live and already has commercial passenger service.


I'm surprised to see that OLM isn't on that list. It could certainly support a similar operation to PAE and is well-proportioned geographically relative to SEA to serve that purpose.

As far as another large airport it Western WA goes...good luck with that.
 
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gunsontheroof
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Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:07 am

Duplicate. Please delete.
 
iamlucky13
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Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 29, 2021 8:21 am

If anyone would like, the report is here:

https://wsdot.wa.gov/sites/default/file ... er2020.pdf

It is relatively short and seems frankly very cursory. The Puget Sound Regional Council, which represents most of the counties and cities around Puget Sound, has also been studying the question. They seem to be getting into a lot more detail.

gunsontheroof wrote:
CowAnon wrote:
The Shelton and Lewis County candidates strike me as odd. Not listed is Bellingham's airport, which is a lot closer to where I live and already has commercial passenger service.


I'm surprised to see that OLM isn't on that list. It could certainly support a similar operation to PAE and is well-proportioned geographically relative to SEA to serve that purpose.


I'm familiar with the South Lewis County Airport. It's currently tiny, but has lots of room around it and would have excellent access to the Interstate highway. I was told at one point that FedEx was considering building significant facility there due to being in between Seattle and Portland, so there has been interest there for quite a while in a major expansion. I do agree it's too far away from Seattle to have major appeal as a passenger airport.

I don't know why Bellingham wasn't considered.

Port of Olympia indicated to the commission they were not interested. It sounds like so did McChord Air Force Base. I know people tend to be skeptical the USAF would even consider allowing commercial operations, but they do it elsewhere, McChord is neither a high operation nor high stakes base, since it mostly operates C-17's, and a commercial partner would defray a lot of the costs of field maintenance.
 
Prost
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Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:55 pm

https://www.djc.com/news/co/12137987.html

Expansion of A concourse at SEA for retail and lounge space.

"The checklist detailed construction on a floor-by-floor basis, beginning with a 2,700-square-foot expansion on the first floor to create new vertical circulation to access the existing loading dock. The second floor would have about 4,600 square feet of reconfigured space for the restrooms, dining and retail operations, including new main entrances to the addition on the Concourse Level. The document indicates that the dining and retail spaces would be reduced in size from their existing configurations.

Third floor space, about 16,000 square feet, would be renovated and expanded for the port's shared-use lounge. Delta's new lounge would be located in 15,300 square feet on the fourth floor and 12,100 square feet on the fifth floor.

The sixth floor would provide supporting infrastructure such as HVAC.

Delta's new lounge would replace its 8,300-square-foot Sky Club in the South Satellite. The Sky Club space could eventually be converted into dining and retail use after the new lounge opens. Delta also has a big lounge between concourses A and B that it opened a few years ago. It will remain open after the new lounge opens.
 
CowAnon
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Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:20 pm

iamlucky13 wrote:
If anyone would like, the report is here:

https://wsdot.wa.gov/sites/default/file ... er2020.pdf

...

I'm familiar with the South Lewis County Airport. It's currently tiny, but has lots of room around it and would have excellent access to the Interstate highway. I was told at one point that FedEx was considering building significant facility there due to being in between Seattle and Portland, so there has been interest there for quite a while in a major expansion. I do agree it's too far away from Seattle to have major appeal as a passenger airport.

I don't know why Bellingham wasn't considered.

Thanks for the link.

Not knowing anything about Lewis County aviation, I just assumed the airport mentioned in the article was the one serving Centralia and Chehalis, where the largest population center is in the county. So I'm surprised to learn that the airport in contention is actually 25 miles south of there, near I-5 exit 63. Exit numbers are equivalent to mileposts, so with downtown Seattle being at exit 164 and Bellingham airport being off exit 258, Ed Carlson Memorial Field is actually a little farther from the Seattle metro area than Bellingham. That airport might be a useful option for the half-million people in Clark County, but PDX is just at the first exit across the Columbia River on I-205 from Vancouver, and they can free-ride off the Port of Portland's efforts just like they do with shopping and the lack of an Oregon sales tax. Even Shelton seems like a better Sea-Tac alternative.
 
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ER757
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Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:33 pm

QR started DOH/SEA on Jan 29th and EK resumes DXB/SEA today Feb 2
 
DenverTed
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Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:56 pm

As for PAE, with 787 production moved, 747 winding down, and 777 decreased, seems like there might be more pliability to expand passenger service beyond 24 flight a day capacity.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:04 pm

DenverTed wrote:
As for PAE, with 787 production moved, 747 winding down, and 777 decreased, seems like there might be more pliability to expand passenger service beyond 24 flight a day capacity.


I don’t think the limits on PAE passengers flights has anything to do with the number of airplanes rolling out of the Boeing factory. The 24 flight limit is a federal regulation, as I understand it. It’s unrelated to the Boeing production rate.

Having said that, I’d like to see expanded service at PAE. I live close to PAE and love the convenience. I don’t any problems with noise at all.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:24 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
DenverTed wrote:
As for PAE, with 787 production moved, 747 winding down, and 777 decreased, seems like there might be more pliability to expand passenger service beyond 24 flight a day capacity.


I don’t think the limits on PAE passengers flights has anything to do with the number of airplanes rolling out of the Boeing factory. The 24 flight limit is a federal regulation, as I understand it. It’s unrelated to the Boeing production rate.

Having said that, I’d like to see expanded service at PAE. I live close to PAE and love the convenience. I don’t any problems with noise at all.


I heard that in order to increase the flight cap at PAE, a new environmental study would required and it would be funded by any airline customer that has the desire to increase service.

The only airline exceptions are for Kenmore Air and/or San Juan Airlines.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:27 am

CowAnon wrote:
iamlucky13 wrote:
If anyone would like, the report is here:

https://wsdot.wa.gov/sites/default/file ... er2020.pdf

...

I'm familiar with the South Lewis County Airport. It's currently tiny, but has lots of room around it and would have excellent access to the Interstate highway. I was told at one point that FedEx was considering building significant facility there due to being in between Seattle and Portland, so there has been interest there for quite a while in a major expansion. I do agree it's too far away from Seattle to have major appeal as a passenger airport.

I don't know why Bellingham wasn't considered.

Thanks for the link.

Not knowing anything about Lewis County aviation, I just assumed the airport mentioned in the article was the one serving Centralia and Chehalis, where the largest population center is in the county. So I'm surprised to learn that the airport in contention is actually 25 miles south of there, near I-5 exit 63. Exit numbers are equivalent to mileposts, so with downtown Seattle being at exit 164 and Bellingham airport being off exit 258, Ed Carlson Memorial Field is actually a little farther from the Seattle metro area than Bellingham. That airport might be a useful option for the half-million people in Clark County, but PDX is just at the first exit across the Columbia River on I-205 from Vancouver, and they can free-ride off the Port of Portland's efforts just like they do with shopping and the lack of an Oregon sales tax. Even Shelton seems like a better Sea-Tac alternative.


I don't think BLI is considered to be a Puget Sound area airport.

I remember some years ago, G4 was considering service to Kitsap Airport to LAS, as part of the running for PAE. It's too bad G4 never engaged in PAE service. Perhaps it was too close to BLI??

I hope to see regularly scheduled mainline service at PAE at some point.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:34 pm

The main Chehalis Centralia airport is in a flood plain, and has flooded many times in the last hundred years. Incidentally, south Lewis County people tend to use Longview/Portland as their preferred trips to big city medical care. Chehalis and north, Olympia and Seattle. I suspect there is some pertinent data there. As the crow flies, Bremerton would be a no brainer, no further from Seattle than SeaTac. But no one can figure out how the hell to get across the main stem of the Puget Sound. Seventy years ago it was assumed there would be a bridge built before the end of the century.
 
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Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:54 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
CowAnon wrote:
iamlucky13 wrote:
If anyone would like, the report is here:

https://wsdot.wa.gov/sites/default/file ... er2020.pdf

...

I'm familiar with the South Lewis County Airport. It's currently tiny, but has lots of room around it and would have excellent access to the Interstate highway. I was told at one point that FedEx was considering building significant facility there due to being in between Seattle and Portland, so there has been interest there for quite a while in a major expansion. I do agree it's too far away from Seattle to have major appeal as a passenger airport.

I don't know why Bellingham wasn't considered.

Thanks for the link.

Not knowing anything about Lewis County aviation, I just assumed the airport mentioned in the article was the one serving Centralia and Chehalis, where the largest population center is in the county. So I'm surprised to learn that the airport in contention is actually 25 miles south of there, near I-5 exit 63. Exit numbers are equivalent to mileposts, so with downtown Seattle being at exit 164 and Bellingham airport being off exit 258, Ed Carlson Memorial Field is actually a little farther from the Seattle metro area than Bellingham. That airport might be a useful option for the half-million people in Clark County, but PDX is just at the first exit across the Columbia River on I-205 from Vancouver, and they can free-ride off the Port of Portland's efforts just like they do with shopping and the lack of an Oregon sales tax. Even Shelton seems like a better Sea-Tac alternative.


I don't think BLI is considered to be a Puget Sound area airport.

I remember some years ago, G4 was considering service to Kitsap Airport to LAS, as part of the running for PAE. It's too bad G4 never engaged in PAE service. Perhaps it was too close to BLI??

I hope to see regularly scheduled mainline service at PAE at some point.


What is the Kitsap County airport that you said G4 considered? Is that TIW? It only has a 5000 foot runway, so that would be a challenge.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 03, 2021 9:53 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
CowAnon wrote:
Thanks for the link.

Not knowing anything about Lewis County aviation, I just assumed the airport mentioned in the article was the one serving Centralia and Chehalis, where the largest population center is in the county. So I'm surprised to learn that the airport in contention is actually 25 miles south of there, near I-5 exit 63. Exit numbers are equivalent to mileposts, so with downtown Seattle being at exit 164 and Bellingham airport being off exit 258, Ed Carlson Memorial Field is actually a little farther from the Seattle metro area than Bellingham. That airport might be a useful option for the half-million people in Clark County, but PDX is just at the first exit across the Columbia River on I-205 from Vancouver, and they can free-ride off the Port of Portland's efforts just like they do with shopping and the lack of an Oregon sales tax. Even Shelton seems like a better Sea-Tac alternative.


I don't think BLI is considered to be a Puget Sound area airport.

I remember some years ago, G4 was considering service to Kitsap Airport to LAS, as part of the running for PAE. It's too bad G4 never engaged in PAE service. Perhaps it was too close to BLI??

This is all I could find:

https://pugetsoundblogs.com/kitsap-cauc ... allegiant/

I hope to see regularly scheduled mainline service at PAE at some point.


What is the Kitsap County airport that you said G4 considered? Is that TIW? It only has a 5000 foot runway, so that would be a challenge.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 04, 2021 5:27 pm

The Kitsap County airport has a Port of Bremerton industrial area on the north end. It is surrounded by a lot of forest land. to the east, south, and across the highway to the west. And its all relatively flat land. It could easily encompass a 10K meter runway, and huge areas could be added to the Port for whatever aviation needs there are, even future industrial areas. My thoughts are that the State and County should negotiate purchase rights for as much land as the airport might need.
 
Prost
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Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:16 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
CowAnon wrote:
iamlucky13 wrote:
If anyone would like, the report is here:

https://wsdot.wa.gov/sites/default/file ... er2020.pdf

...

I'm familiar with the South Lewis County Airport. It's currently tiny, but has lots of room around it and would have excellent access to the Interstate highway. I was told at one point that FedEx was considering building significant facility there due to being in between Seattle and Portland, so there has been interest there for quite a while in a major expansion. I do agree it's too far away from Seattle to have major appeal as a passenger airport.

I don't know why Bellingham wasn't considered.

Thanks for the link.

Not knowing anything about Lewis County aviation, I just assumed the airport mentioned in the article was the one serving Centralia and Chehalis, where the largest population center is in the county. So I'm surprised to learn that the airport in contention is actually 25 miles south of there, near I-5 exit 63. Exit numbers are equivalent to mileposts, so with downtown Seattle being at exit 164 and Bellingham airport being off exit 258, Ed Carlson Memorial Field is actually a little farther from the Seattle metro area than Bellingham. That airport might be a useful option for the half-million people in Clark County, but PDX is just at the first exit across the Columbia River on I-205 from Vancouver, and they can free-ride off the Port of Portland's efforts just like they do with shopping and the lack of an Oregon sales tax. Even Shelton seems like a better Sea-Tac alternative.


I don't think BLI is considered to be a Puget Sound area airport.

I remember some years ago, G4 was considering service to Kitsap Airport to LAS, as part of the running for PAE. It's too bad G4 never engaged in PAE service. Perhaps it was too close to BLI??

I hope to see regularly scheduled mainline service at PAE at some point.


Puget Sound’s boundaries end at the northern tip of Whidbey Island and Admiralty Inlet, so Bellingham isn’t part of Puget Sound.
 
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ER757
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Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:13 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
The Kitsap County airport has a Port of Bremerton industrial area on the north end. It is surrounded by a lot of forest land. to the east, south, and across the highway to the west. And its all relatively flat land. It could easily encompass a 10K meter runway, and huge areas could be added to the Port for whatever aviation needs there are, even future industrial areas. My thoughts are that the State and County should negotiate purchase rights for as much land as the airport might need.

I always thought Bremerton could be a viable alternative, especially for those on the Kitsap and Olympic peninsulas - would work for people heading south too. Not much use for Seattle metro though - an hour ferry ride plus the wait time for the boat would be a deal breaker for most
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:08 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:

I don't think BLI is considered to be a Puget Sound area airport.

I remember some years ago, G4 was considering service to Kitsap Airport to LAS, as part of the running for PAE. It's too bad G4 never engaged in PAE service. Perhaps it was too close to BLI??

This is all I could find:

https://pugetsoundblogs.com/kitsap-cauc ... allegiant/

I hope to see regularly scheduled mainline service at PAE at some point.


What is the Kitsap County airport that you said G4 considered? Is that TIW? It only has a 5000 foot runway, so that would be a challenge.


I don’t see that you wrote anything in this post responding to my comment. I always enjoy reading your posts, so was interested in what you have to say.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:30 am

http://www.chronline.com/news/it-s-not- ... 7438e.html

Toledo and Lewis County officials say that airport is not going to be in the running. By the way, one other advantage of the Kitsap Airport as a major regional is that it is likely to find a very supportive political environment.
 
iamlucky13
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Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 05, 2021 1:47 am

frmrCapCadet wrote:
http://www.chronline.com/news/it-s-not-going-to-happen-commissioners-dismiss-residents-fears-of-major-expansion-of-toledo/article_016c00f0-668a-11eb-8672-2f3811d7438e.html

Toledo and Lewis County officials say that airport is not going to be in the running. By the way, one other advantage of the Kitsap Airport as a major regional is that it is likely to find a very supportive political environment.


I think the main reason it won't happen is distance from the bulk of the region's population. The cited fact that there are roads and houses around the existing airport is not a reason at all. That applies to every single possible site on this side of the state unless the airport already has sufficient property for the level of expansion that would be involved.

Were it not for the distance, one of the factors the Lewis County airport would have going for it is the relatively small number of people who would be adversely impacted by relocations or the increased noise.

The local opposition is understandable, though. A major airport there would radically change the character of the area for miles around. One of the farms right next door, which would undoubtedly get paved over for ramp space or the terminal, has for decades hosted a threshing bee where people from all over the county bring in antique tractors and other equipment to demonstrate some of the historical aspects of farming in the area.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:15 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

What is the Kitsap County airport that you said G4 considered? Is that TIW? It only has a 5000 foot runway, so that would be a challenge.


I don’t see that you wrote anything in this post responding to my comment. I always enjoy reading your posts, so was interested in what you have to say.


I don't know the airport. I just remember seeing a picture of a runway in the middle of a wilderness.
 
sprxUSA
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Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:23 pm

Kitsap County field is south of Bremerton jus toff highway 3. PWT used to have various attempted carriers flying over the sound to SEA.
 
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gunsontheroof
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Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 06, 2021 1:10 am

I don't really see the logic in investing in a new airport anywhere south of Olympia. Once you're south of the capital, it's a pretty clean shot to PDX on most days and with Puget Sound traffic, PDX is probably a quicker trip than SEA much of the time. I still maintain that regional authorities are going to need to find a way to make an existing facility work as a reliever airport, but there doesn't seem to be much enthusiasm from the communities with the most viable facilities.

Curious to see TCM on the list in the link. I suppose it has room for a runway extension and a small terminal/ramp, but I'd expect fierce community resistance to any such project. PWT is an interesting proposal as it has plenty of room to work with, but it might not be in the best location to be an appealing option for the number of passengers you'd be looking to pull from SEA as a relief airport.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 06, 2021 1:27 am

gunsontheroof wrote:
I don't really see the logic in investing in a new airport anywhere south of Olympia. Once you're south of the capital, it's a pretty clean shot to PDX on most days and with Puget Sound traffic, PDX is probably a quicker trip than SEA much of the time. I still maintain that regional authorities are going to need to find a way to make an existing facility work as a reliever airport, but there doesn't seem to be much enthusiasm from the communities with the most viable facilities.

Curious to see TCM on the list in the link. I suppose it has room for a runway extension and a small terminal/ramp, but I'd expect fierce community resistance to any such project. PWT is an interesting proposal as it has plenty of room to work with, but it might not be in the best location to be an appealing option for the number of passengers you'd be looking to pull from SEA as a relief airport.


I wonder why JBLM wasn't considered. They already have a long runway, lots of land and direct access to both I-5 and 512. Couldn't they consider setting JBLM like CHS?
 
CowAnon
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Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 06, 2021 2:12 am

The report said Pierce County wasn't interested, though that doesn't explain why Gig Harbor airport made the list and not JBLM.
 
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gunsontheroof
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Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 06, 2021 2:17 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
gunsontheroof wrote:
I don't really see the logic in investing in a new airport anywhere south of Olympia. Once you're south of the capital, it's a pretty clean shot to PDX on most days and with Puget Sound traffic, PDX is probably a quicker trip than SEA much of the time. I still maintain that regional authorities are going to need to find a way to make an existing facility work as a reliever airport, but there doesn't seem to be much enthusiasm from the communities with the most viable facilities.

Curious to see TCM on the list in the link. I suppose it has room for a runway extension and a small terminal/ramp, but I'd expect fierce community resistance to any such project. PWT is an interesting proposal as it has plenty of room to work with, but it might not be in the best location to be an appealing option for the number of passengers you'd be looking to pull from SEA as a relief airport.


I wonder why JBLM wasn't considered. They already have a long runway, lots of land and direct access to both I-5 and 512. Couldn't they consider setting JBLM like CHS?


This article covers a lot of the issues that have been raised in past threads around here. Interesting that planning for the military side of TCM to close is on anyone's mind, I don't see any reason why that would be necessary with so much available space on the east side of the field:

https://thelens.news/2020/07/24/could-j ... e-airport/

TCM really would be a great option, as transportation access would be much simpler, there's room for a larger operation and would probably (...) be the least impeded by NIMBYs. Whether or not the army is willing to have a serious discussion about it remains to be seen. One difference between TCM and an operation like CHS is that the field is adjacent to an enormous base and one of the approach paths passes very near active firing ranges.
 
SyracuseAvGeek
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Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:38 pm

Just found a video of someone landing at BFI on board JSX...

https://youtu.be/IReEXic3uaM

Are they still offering flights from BFI? Or have they been temporarily stopped?
 
CowAnon
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Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:50 am

gunsontheroof wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
gunsontheroof wrote:
I don't really see the logic in investing in a new airport anywhere south of Olympia. Once you're south of the capital, it's a pretty clean shot to PDX on most days and with Puget Sound traffic, PDX is probably a quicker trip than SEA much of the time. I still maintain that regional authorities are going to need to find a way to make an existing facility work as a reliever airport, but there doesn't seem to be much enthusiasm from the communities with the most viable facilities.

Curious to see TCM on the list in the link. I suppose it has room for a runway extension and a small terminal/ramp, but I'd expect fierce community resistance to any such project. PWT is an interesting proposal as it has plenty of room to work with, but it might not be in the best location to be an appealing option for the number of passengers you'd be looking to pull from SEA as a relief airport.


I wonder why JBLM wasn't considered. They already have a long runway, lots of land and direct access to both I-5 and 512. Couldn't they consider setting JBLM like CHS?


This article covers a lot of the issues that have been raised in past threads around here. Interesting that planning for the military side of TCM to close is on anyone's mind, I don't see any reason why that would be necessary with so much available space on the east side of the field:

https://thelens.news/2020/07/24/could-j ... e-airport/

TCM really would be a great option, as transportation access would be much simpler, there's room for a larger operation and would probably (...) be the least impeded by NIMBYs. Whether or not the army is willing to have a serious discussion about it remains to be seen. One difference between TCM and an operation like CHS is that the field is adjacent to an enormous base and one of the approach paths passes very near active firing ranges.

From the news link:

    While recent feedback from commission members indicates a preference for greater short-term focus on expanding existing facilities, some members said at the commission’s July 21 meeting that a long-term solution may require significant changes – such as relocating Joint Base Lewis-McChord (JBLM) from its current location along Interstate 5 to central or eastern Washington and using that site for a new airport.
    ...
    JBLM has a base population of 210,000, making it the world’s fourth largest military installation. Fort Lewis spans a total of 87,000 acres, while Sea-Tac covers 2,500 acres. The base is located within the central Puget Sound region that includes four of the top five fastest-growing counties in the state.

If base relocation is feasible, that's a tremendous option, although there's only one suitable runway currently. But with that much available land, you could add several long runways, plus build a ton of homes to help with the region's housing shortage.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:42 am

SyracuseAvGeek wrote:
Just found a video of someone landing at BFI on board JSX...

https://youtu.be/IReEXic3uaM

Are they still offering flights from BFI? Or have they been temporarily stopped?


JSX has suspended flights to BFI indefinitely. The pandemic killed the BFI-OAK service. The attempted the BFI-LAS service briefly with 4X weekly flights. But BFI is no longer on their route map.
 
CowAnon
Posts: 211
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:03 am

Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:37 pm

Here's a long article from the Puget Sound Business Journal last month (behind a paywall) about COMAC's under-the-radar efforts to turn Weyerhaeuser's old headquarters into an R&D center in 2019:

COMAC checks out Boeing's backyard: The Chinese jet maker explored U.S. expansion in Federal Way, then suddenly went silent

    The Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China (COMAC) has quietly studied two West Coast sites over the past few years for a major new research, development, engineering and business center for its emerging C919 single-aisle passenger jet, the Puget Sound Business Journal has learned.
    ...
    “They were all hot and heavy to do stuff, and then it just kind of went away and I haven’t heard from them in over a year,” the source said. “They had a guy in charge of that office who had a lot of grand ideas, but you never know just what the politics are back home with the Chinese.”
    ...
    The second goal, according to two sources, was to have a U.S.-based location to meet potential suppliers, reduce foreign travel and more easily negotiate contracts, make payments and do business on U.S.- style timelines.

One of the sources also said that this push involved COMAC trying to get FAA certification for the C919, but that they've quietly given up on that plan.
 
iamlucky13
Posts: 1448
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Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:24 am

CowAnon wrote:
Here's a long article from the Puget Sound Business Journal last month (behind a paywall) about COMAC's under-the-radar efforts to turn Weyerhaeuser's old headquarters into an R&D center in 2019:

COMAC checks out Boeing's backyard: The Chinese jet maker explored U.S. expansion in Federal Way, then suddenly went silent


Imagine if they followed through with that at a time when one of their two main incumbent competitors was laying off engineers in the area.
 
AC4500
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Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 6:09 pm

jetBlue adds 1x daily, summer seasonal EWR-SEA flight beginning July 1, 2021: http://blueir.investproductions.com/inv ... -160050512

Thought it was only a matter of time before EWR-SEA was announced. Hopefully they'll stack up well against AS & UA.
 
Wneast
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Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:44 pm

Is there adds that could made by southwest at Geg ? Or more Alaska flights ?
 
MaxTrimm
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Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:49 pm

Wneast wrote:
Is there adds that could made by southwest at Geg ? Or more Alaska flights ?

I’ve always been curious about AS expansion to GEG. On one hand, I bet they could add several different places that would work well. On the other, for every passenger they send direct, they’re losing a passenger connecting through SEA. There’s just not much they can do that doesn’t defeat the purpose of near-hourly service to SEA.
 
Wneast
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Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:52 pm

MaxTrimm wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Is there adds that could made by southwest at Geg ? Or more Alaska flights ?

I’ve always been curious about AS expansion to GEG. On one hand, I bet they could add several different places that would work well. On the other, for every passenger they send direct, they’re losing a passenger connecting through SEA. There’s just not much they can do that doesn’t defeat the purpose of near-hourly service to SEA.

Very true but with all the people moving to there people aren’t going want always connect to through Seattle where do you think they could add ?
 
QXorVX
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2016 5:45 am

Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:23 am

Wneast wrote:
MaxTrimm wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Is there adds that could made by southwest at Geg ? Or more Alaska flights ?

I’ve always been curious about AS expansion to GEG. On one hand, I bet they could add several different places that would work well. On the other, for every passenger they send direct, they’re losing a passenger connecting through SEA. There’s just not much they can do that doesn’t defeat the purpose of near-hourly service to SEA.

Very true but with all the people moving to there people aren’t going want always connect to through Seattle where do you think they could add ?


I think the most successful non-stops from PAE are a good signal as to what might work from GEG net positive (stimulating enough demand / snagging it from other carriers for those with a non-stop preference). Considering that what they pretty much have left is PHX or LAS since most of the California routes are already operated by AS. Not sure if running against two ULCCs to Vegas would be the most prudent move.
 
Wneast
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Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:54 am

QXorVX wrote:
Wneast wrote:
MaxTrimm wrote:
I’ve always been curious about AS expansion to GEG. On one hand, I bet they could add several different places that would work well. On the other, for every passenger they send direct, they’re losing a passenger connecting through SEA. There’s just not much they can do that doesn’t defeat the purpose of near-hourly service to SEA.

Very true but with all the people moving to there people aren’t going want always connect to through Seattle where do you think they could add ?


I think the most successful non-stops from PAE are a good signal as to what might work from GEG net positive (stimulating enough demand / snagging it from other carriers for those with a non-stop preference). Considering that what they pretty much have left is PHX or LAS since most of the California routes are already operated by AS. Not sure if running against two ULCCs to Vegas would be the most prudent move.

What about Hawaii or something else
 
MaxTrimm
Posts: 377
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:43 pm

Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:12 am

Wneast wrote:
QXorVX wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Very true but with all the people moving to there people aren’t going want always connect to through Seattle where do you think they could add ?


I think the most successful non-stops from PAE are a good signal as to what might work from GEG net positive (stimulating enough demand / snagging it from other carriers for those with a non-stop preference). Considering that what they pretty much have left is PHX or LAS since most of the California routes are already operated by AS. Not sure if running against two ULCCs to Vegas would be the most prudent move.

What about Hawaii or something else

A flight to Hawaii would fly DIRECTLY over PDX or SEA. Unless theres sufficient local traffic, there really isn’t too many places they can add outside of west coast hotspots. I think the PAE analogy was accurate. An LAX/SFO/SAN/SJC/SNA/LAS/PHX operation seems like the most realistic adds. MAYBE YVR one day.
 
Wneast
Posts: 969
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:22 am

MaxTrimm wrote:
Wneast wrote:
QXorVX wrote:

I think the most successful non-stops from PAE are a good signal as to what might work from GEG net positive (stimulating enough demand / snagging it from other carriers for those with a non-stop preference). Considering that what they pretty much have left is PHX or LAS since most of the California routes are already operated by AS. Not sure if running against two ULCCs to Vegas would be the most prudent move.

What about Hawaii or something else

A flight to Hawaii would fly DIRECTLY over PDX or SEA. Unless theres sufficient local traffic, there really isn’t too many places they can add outside of west coast hotspots. I think the PAE analogy was accurate. An LAX/SFO/SAN/SJC/SNA/LAS/PHX operation seems like the most realistic adds. MAYBE YVR one day.

There for sure is demand for a less then daily flight if they done do it southwest will
 
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ER757
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Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 25, 2021 12:32 am

Here's an article on the artwork installed in the new IAF at SEA. Looks pretty cool

https://www.portseattle.org/blog/sea-ar ... challenges
 
hiflyeras
Posts: 2375
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 25, 2021 12:39 am

ER757 wrote:
Here's an article on the artwork installed in the new IAF at SEA. Looks pretty cool

https://www.portseattle.org/blog/sea-ar ... challenges


It sure beats the stupid magician on the D concourse. Looks cool!
 
717atOGG
Posts: 903
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Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 27, 2021 1:12 am

Looks like AA will be adding ORD-GEG on an A319 this summer, running it daily from June 3 to September 7. Nice to see AA filling this gap in their network; any guesses as to what’s next for GEG?

https://thepointsguy.com/news/american- ... ew-routes/
 
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ER757
Posts: 4226
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 10:16 am

Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:52 pm

Some news about the 2nd phase of the North Satellite expansion - they're going to have a wall of windows there just like central marketplace in the main terminal

https://www.portseattle.org/blog/fast-f ... arketplace
 
Wneast
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Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:04 am

717atOGG wrote:
Looks like AA will be adding ORD-GEG on an A319 this summer, running it daily from June 3 to September 7. Nice to see AA filling this gap in their network; any guesses as to what’s next for GEG?

https://thepointsguy.com/news/american- ... ew-routes/
im hopping for a Hawaii flight in the winter or a JetBlue seasonal jfk or mco since that has sufficient demand but idk if southwest would try it ?
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Mar 06, 2021 3:24 am

I see that QR has reduced their seats to DOH already from a 77E to a 77L.
 
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ER757
Posts: 4226
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 10:16 am

Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Apr 03, 2021 8:07 pm

AA flying a 772 SEA/LAX today as flight #706D - departed about 12:30. Charter? Positioning flight? Anyone know?

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL ... /KSEA/KLAX
 
jplatts
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Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Apr 25, 2021 3:51 pm

While AC has nonstop service to YYZ from SEA, AS or DL adding SEA-YYZ nonstop service once demand recovers might be a possibility with the FF base that both AS and DL have in the Seattle market and with AS being in oneworld, DL being in SkyTeam, and AC being in Star Alliance.

YYZ is only one of two North American markets with nonstop service from SEA (along with MSN) that doesn't have nonstop service from SEA on a oneworld or SkyTeam airline.

While AS previously had served YYZ nonstop from SEA 30 years ago, AS pulled out of YYZ in 1992. AS might be able to make SEA-YYZ nonstop service work after demand recovers with AS being a much bigger airline than it was back when AS last served YYZ nonstop from SEA.

DL adding SEA-YYZ nonstop service might be a possibility with DL having a hub at SEA and DL's partner WS having a hub at YYZ along with the connections opportunities that would be available at both SEA (on DL to Asia, Alaska, and the Pacific Northwest) and YYZ (on WS to Eastern Canada).

While AS has a much bigger presence at SEA and AS serves more contiguous U.S. destinations nonstop from SEA than DL does, DL would have advantages over AS on SEA-YYZ if DL adds SEA-YYZ nonstop service due to the longstanding DL presence at YYZ, the DL-WS partnership, the WS YYZ hub, the WS FF base in Eastern Canada, and the connecting opportunities that are there on the YYZ end of the route.

Is there any possibility of AS re-adding SEA-YYZ nonstop service or DL adding SEA-YYZ nonstop service once demand recovers?
 
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ER757
Posts: 4226
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Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:41 pm

jplatts wrote:
While AC has nonstop service to YYZ from SEA, AS or DL adding SEA-YYZ nonstop service once demand recovers might be a possibility with the FF base that both AS and DL have in the Seattle market and with AS being in oneworld, DL being in SkyTeam, and AC being in Star Alliance.

YYZ is only one of two North American markets with nonstop service from SEA (along with MSN) that doesn't have nonstop service from SEA on a oneworld or SkyTeam airline.

While AS previously had served YYZ nonstop from SEA 30 years ago, AS pulled out of YYZ in 1992. AS might be able to make SEA-YYZ nonstop service work after demand recovers with AS being a much bigger airline than it was back when AS last served YYZ nonstop from SEA.

DL adding SEA-YYZ nonstop service might be a possibility with DL having a hub at SEA and DL's partner WS having a hub at YYZ along with the connections opportunities that would be available at both SEA (on DL to Asia, Alaska, and the Pacific Northwest) and YYZ (on WS to Eastern Canada).

While AS has a much bigger presence at SEA and AS serves more contiguous U.S. destinations nonstop from SEA than DL does, DL would have advantages over AS on SEA-YYZ if DL adds SEA-YYZ nonstop service due to the longstanding DL presence at YYZ, the DL-WS partnership, the WS YYZ hub, the WS FF base in Eastern Canada, and the connecting opportunities that are there on the YYZ end of the route.

Is there any possibility of AS re-adding SEA-YYZ nonstop service or DL adding SEA-YYZ nonstop service once demand recovers?


I could see AS doing so at some point - I'd consider a real long shot for DL though. Just my :twocents:
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5747
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Washington State Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:56 pm

jplatts wrote:
While AC has nonstop service to YYZ from SEA, AS or DL adding SEA-YYZ nonstop service once demand recovers might be a possibility with the FF base that both AS and DL have in the Seattle market and with AS being in oneworld, DL being in SkyTeam, and AC being in Star Alliance.

YYZ is only one of two North American markets with nonstop service from SEA (along with MSN) that doesn't have nonstop service from SEA on a oneworld or SkyTeam airline.

While AS previously had served YYZ nonstop from SEA 30 years ago, AS pulled out of YYZ in 1992. AS might be able to make SEA-YYZ nonstop service work after demand recovers with AS being a much bigger airline than it was back when AS last served YYZ nonstop from SEA.

DL adding SEA-YYZ nonstop service might be a possibility with DL having a hub at SEA and DL's partner WS having a hub at YYZ along with the connections opportunities that would be available at both SEA (on DL to Asia, Alaska, and the Pacific Northwest) and YYZ (on WS to Eastern Canada).

While AS has a much bigger presence at SEA and AS serves more contiguous U.S. destinations nonstop from SEA than DL does, DL would have advantages over AS on SEA-YYZ if DL adds SEA-YYZ nonstop service due to the longstanding DL presence at YYZ, the DL-WS partnership, the WS YYZ hub, the WS FF base in Eastern Canada, and the connecting opportunities that are there on the YYZ end of the route.

Is there any possibility of AS re-adding SEA-YYZ nonstop service or DL adding SEA-YYZ nonstop service once demand recovers?


Technically, didn't AS only fly the LAX-YYZ route? I remember back in the 1980's that you could fly TG between SEA and YYZ. I could AS flying that route...less likely DL. But who knows. I also hope AC decides to reinstate YUL-SEA.

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