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eta unknown
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:24 pm

hawaiian717 wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
Remember also that UA has the govt. contract to transport federal employees- that should put any further speculation to rest.


These contracts are re-competed annually. For FY22, Delta also has a number of contracts out of GUM; looking at GUM-STL for example on Delta's web site shows a Korean Air-operated codeshare segment to ICN (foreign-operated codeshare flights are valid for city pair contracts if the US airline chooses to include them, and foreign-operated codeshares issued with a US carrier's flight number are considered flying a US airline for purposes of complying with the Fly America Act). If Hawaiian wanted to get into the GUM-HNL market, they could certainly do so and attempt to compete for GUM-HNL (not to mention other ex-GUM markets via HNL, including other islands and the mainland) for FY23 and beyond.

You raise a good point about HA competing for the contracts. Is it safe to say they are not interested or have not been successful, hence why no HA HNL-GUM service?
 
ScottB
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:27 pm

hawaiian717 wrote:
If Hawaiian wanted to get into the GUM-HNL market, they could certainly do so and attempt to compete for GUM-HNL (not to mention other ex-GUM markets via HNL, including other islands and the mainland) for FY23 and beyond.


They could, but the GUM hub is probably more critical to the success of the GUM-HNL route than folks might expect, and I'm not sure UA would play nice with HA if the latter were to try to steal the government contract for GUM-HNL. It's definitely a market where an airline would want to run a widebody since there's a fair amount of freight carried.
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:46 pm

I'm not sure how GSA (the agency that oversees the contracts) would react to a bid based on proposed service. I'm guessing Hawaiian would have to start the service on their own and then hope to be able to win a bid against United. And United, knowing that Hawaiian had entered the market, might bid lower than in previous years when they had a monopoly, making it that much harder for Hawaiian to win. It's certainly not impossible for a new entrant to win markets; Southwest has picked up a number of west coast-Hawaii contracts for FY22.

Hawaiian served GUM in the late 1980s and early 1990s, when they had a more extensive South Pacific network, as seen in this route map: http://www.departedflights.com/HA060190.html I believe they used DC-8s to GUM.
 
jplatts
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 15, 2021 2:29 am

Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN flights out of Hawaii in May 2021:
HNL-ITO - 9307 passengers, 42525 seats, 21.89% load factor
HNL-KOA - 10837 passengers, 42875 seats, 25.28% load factor
HNL-LGB - 8272 passengers, 10850 seats, 76.24% load factor
HNL-LIH - 19121 passengers, 43400 seats, 44.06% load factor
HNL-OAK - 19785 passengers, 21700 seats, 91.18% load factor
HNL-OGG - 22154 passengers, 64050 seats, 34.59% load factor
HNL-SAN - 9264 passengers, 10850 seats, 85.38% load factor
HNL-SJC - 18582 passengers, 21875 seats, 84.95% load factor
HNL-SMF - 9628 passengers, 10675 seats, 90.19% load factor

KOA-OGG - 3720 passengers, 10850 seats, 34.29% load factor
LGB-OGG - 8347 passengers, 10850 seats, 76.93% load factor
OAK-OGG - 18627 passengers, 21700 seats, 85.84% load factor
OGG-SJC - 7809 passengers, 10850 seats, 71.97% load factor
OGG-SMF - 9393 passengers, 10850 seats, 86.57% load factor

KOA-OAK - 8658 passengers, 10850 seats, 79.80% load factor
KOA-SJC - 6859 passengers, 10850 seats, 63.22% load factor
 
kavok
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 15, 2021 3:11 am

jplatts wrote:
Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN flights out of Hawaii in May 2021:
HNL-ITO - 9307 passengers, 42525 seats, 21.89% load factor
HNL-KOA - 10837 passengers, 42875 seats, 25.28% load factor
HNL-LGB - 8272 passengers, 10850 seats, 76.24% load factor
HNL-LIH - 19121 passengers, 43400 seats, 44.06% load factor
HNL-OAK - 19785 passengers, 21700 seats, 91.18% load factor
HNL-OGG - 22154 passengers, 64050 seats, 34.59% load factor
HNL-SAN - 9264 passengers, 10850 seats, 85.38% load factor
HNL-SJC - 18582 passengers, 21875 seats, 84.95% load factor
HNL-SMF - 9628 passengers, 10675 seats, 90.19% load factor

KOA-OGG - 3720 passengers, 10850 seats, 34.29% load factor
LGB-OGG - 8347 passengers, 10850 seats, 76.93% load factor
OAK-OGG - 18627 passengers, 21700 seats, 85.84% load factor
OGG-SJC - 7809 passengers, 10850 seats, 71.97% load factor
OGG-SMF - 9393 passengers, 10850 seats, 86.57% load factor

KOA-OAK - 8658 passengers, 10850 seats, 79.80% load factor
KOA-SJC - 6859 passengers, 10850 seats, 63.22% load factor


Definitely quite the difference in performance between their intra island services vs. mainland to Hawaii services.
 
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haynflyer
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:39 am

The inter-island vs Hawaii-ConUS flying might be stark because a lot of people who live in Hawaii, like myself, know that Southwest has the absolute farthest, most inconvenient gates in the entire airport. Especially when compared to Hawaiian's inter-island gates which are the shortest walk of any gates (except maybe the four D and F gates). Hawaiian doesn't cost much more, if there is even a difference at all, and if given the choice when flying out of Honolulu, I'd rather not have to walk what literally feels like a mile to get to my gate. The walk to Southwest's gates can be longer than some of their inter-island flights. I think a lot of other local residents feel the same way IMHO. But then again, I'm old, cynical, and lazy so take it for what it's worth.
 
Wneast
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:57 am

haynflyer wrote:
The inter-island vs Hawaii-ConUS flying might be stark because a lot of people who live in Hawaii, like myself, know that Southwest has the absolute farthest, most inconvenient gates in the entire airport. Especially when compared to Hawaiian's inter-island gates which are the shortest walk of any gates (except maybe the four D and F gates). Hawaiian doesn't cost much more, if there is even a difference at all, and if given the choice when flying out of Honolulu, I'd rather not have to walk what literally feels like a mile to get to my gate. The walk to Southwest's gates can be longer than some of their inter-island flights. I think a lot of other local residents feel the same way IMHO. But then again, I'm old, cynical, and lazy so take it for what it's worth.

No WN doesn’t have the four g gates I’m assuming you are referencing
 
obelau24
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:59 am

haynflyer wrote:
The inter-island vs Hawaii-ConUS flying might be stark because a lot of people who live in Hawaii, like myself, know that Southwest has the absolute farthest, most inconvenient gates in the entire airport. Especially when compared to Hawaiian's inter-island gates which are the shortest walk of any gates (except maybe the four D and F gates). Hawaiian doesn't cost much more, if there is even a difference at all, and if given the choice when flying out of Honolulu, I'd rather not have to walk what literally feels like a mile to get to my gate. The walk to Southwest's gates can be longer than some of their inter-island flights. I think a lot of other local residents feel the same way IMHO. But then again, I'm old, cynical, and lazy so take it for what it's worth.


I know what you mean because when WN was in the extension past G6 it was a supreme pain getting to and from the gate - imagine what it was like to park at interisland because you’re flying HA out and then WN back and realize what a colossal mistake you made. That being said, WN is now in the central concourse for the most part so it’s not too bad. The long walks are over (at least now) and the TSA line in the main terminal is usually faster than at HA - especially during the midday rush.
 
BeachBoy
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 15, 2021 7:10 am

I wonder how much longer Southwest is gonna fly to Hilo.
The Hilo residents better support Southwest or itʻs back to the HA monopoly w/ up to $200 ow fares.
Although I appreciate and have benefited from the Southwest competition, I must admit Iʻve flown them once and donʻt plan on flying them regularly. My flt was cxld so I was rebooked on another flt then that flt was delayed. In that time I probably would have had my choice of 3 or 4 HA fits.

On to airline questions:
1. When does the Beech 1900 operations start for Mokulele/Southern Airways Express?

On to airport related questions:
1. When is the Mauka Concourse gonna open? How does HA plan to use it? US Mainland and international only, interisland, or a combination of all 3?
2. Is the KOA remodel complete?
3. Is there any plan to modify the OGG TSA checkpoint? Also, how are gates assigned at OGG? Fits for the same airline seem to depart from gates far from each other.

Mahalo!
 
HNLPointShoot
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 15, 2021 8:27 am

Does anyone have any info on why ANA flew their A380s here this past week? JA381A operated NH183/184 on Tuesday, and JA382A flew home earlier today. (What's also weird is that I think JA382A overnighted here Friday night, since NH184 arrived yesterday, but NH183 didn't leave until today.)
 
DaCubbyBearBar
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Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:31 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 15, 2021 10:25 am

What are the numbers for HA on the inter island routes that are head-to-head with WN?
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 15, 2021 12:52 pm

haynflyer wrote:
The inter-island vs Hawaii-ConUS flying might be stark because a lot of people who live in Hawaii, like myself, know that Southwest has the absolute farthest, most inconvenient gates in the entire airport. Especially when compared to Hawaiian's inter-island gates which are the shortest walk of any gates (except maybe the four D and F gates). Hawaiian doesn't cost much more, if there is even a difference at all, and if given the choice when flying out of Honolulu, I'd rather not have to walk what literally feels like a mile to get to my gate. The walk to Southwest's gates can be longer than some of their inter-island flights. I think a lot of other local residents feel the same way IMHO. But then again, I'm old, cynical, and lazy so take it for what it's worth.

WN has permanently relocated its Ticket counters and gates to the F1,F2 and E2-E-10! gates when they added there last increase in flights in June. The 4 handstand G gates were always going to be temporary until HA opens it’s new terminal. WN relocation timeline only got moved forward thanks to the reduced travel environment of covid in which it freed up more gate space.
The Low load factors for inter island service is a result of the Covid travel restrictions that were in place during MAY.
Hawaiian numbers aren’t much different than WN.

As For Hilo WN is in it for the long game to show the people of Hawaii there here to stay. WN has more Hawaii expansion plans once the MAX7 ETOPS comes online in 2022. I won’t be surprised to see a ITO-LAS flight in the future.

Enjoy or Don’t
Flyguy
 
KMCOFlyer
Posts: 324
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 15, 2021 3:57 pm

haynflyer wrote:
The inter-island vs Hawaii-ConUS flying might be stark because a lot of people who live in Hawaii, like myself, know that Southwest has the absolute farthest, most inconvenient gates in the entire airport. Especially when compared to Hawaiian's inter-island gates which are the shortest walk of any gates (except maybe the four D and F gates). Hawaiian doesn't cost much more, if there is even a difference at all, and if given the choice when flying out of Honolulu, I'd rather not have to walk what literally feels like a mile to get to my gate. The walk to Southwest's gates can be longer than some of their inter-island flights. I think a lot of other local residents feel the same way IMHO. But then again, I'm old, cynical, and lazy so take it for what it's worth.


WN no longer uses the lower level G Gates at HNL All their flights either operate out of the E or F Gates (which is literally right across the hall from TSA).
 
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haynflyer
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 16, 2021 9:50 pm

Oh wow! Thanks for the update. Those are indeed great gates to at. I wonder if it will be permanent?
 
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jaybird
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:03 pm

I'm guessing the WN loads on mainland flights are higher than their interisland flights are due to the fact that they have a big RapidRewards customer base on the west coast. Our company has contracts with AS, WN, HA, UA. Our staff here in Hawaii prefer UA/HA to the mainland .. though we have some that will fly to ANC on AS because of the nonstops. But west coast based staff are split HA/WN to fly to Hawaii with a handful who prefer UA. Those that fly WN frequently on the mainland continue to fly them to Hawaii. I'm sure that's the same with many of their customers. And those west coast staff that fly HA are ones that I introduced to HA and continue to fly HA to Hawaii.
 
HALOGG
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 4:44 am

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 17, 2021 2:38 am

BeachBoy wrote:
I wonder how much longer Southwest is gonna fly to Hilo.
The Hilo residents better support Southwest or itʻs back to the HA monopoly w/ up to $200 ow fares.
Although I appreciate and have benefited from the Southwest competition, I must admit Iʻve flown them once and donʻt plan on flying them regularly. My flt was cxld so I was rebooked on another flt then that flt was delayed. In that time I probably would have had my choice of 3 or 4 HA fits.

On to airline questions:
1. When does the Beech 1900 operations start for Mokulele/Southern Airways Express?

On to airport related questions:
1. When is the Mauka Concourse gonna open? How does HA plan to use it? US Mainland and international only, interisland, or a combination of all 3?
2. Is the KOA remodel complete?
3. Is there any plan to modify the OGG TSA checkpoint? Also, how are gates assigned at OGG? Fits for the same airline seem to depart from gates far from each other.

Mahalo!


The Mauka concourse is set to be opened at the end of August, although we all know that the state of Hawaii isn't that great in getting projects done on time. Compared to other state projects this one has been doing very well from what I've heard. The primary user will be Hawaiian, and it will be capable of accommodating all 3 operations, although it will likely be primarily US mainland and international departures only. International arrivals will remain in the C gates as there is no FIS facilities in the Mauka concourse. The new gates A1 - A12 are paired A1/A2, A3/4 etc. to handle two narrowbody or one widebody aircraft.

Not sure what you mean about KOA, its still an outdoor terminal and ramp, so not much changes there. You can check this website for any state airport projects.

https://www.hawaiiairportsmodernization.com/

Maui does plan to add a south checkpoint in a couple years near the United counters along with the expansion of the south hold rooms of gates 1-15 which is ongoing now. Although there's still only two checkpoints the main one by the Hawaiian counters and the overflow checkpoint where the arrivals corridor is.

I believe gates are still assigned by the state airport operations division for each airport. Although for irregular ops its essentially first come first served. For Maui Hawaiian still gets preference for the close gates 11-15, 17-21 and sometimes gate 23. Since OGG was originally designed for only narrowbody aircraft, each holdroom on the north side originally had 3 gates. Parking widebody aircraft blocked the gates adjacent to them so they eventually removed the all the center jetbridges on the north side gates 23 and above. Gate 19 exists still for Hawaiian's interisland ops, but it gets blocked off when a widebody parks at gate 17 and/or 21. On the south side they got rid of gate 3 so a widebody can park at gate 1 with the only other south side gate where a widebody can park being gate 15 which blocked gate 13. If you're wondering why operations are sometimes spilt between opposite sides of the airport, its just because that was the only place left where they could fit the aircraft. Usually its American who gets unlucky with its 777 being put at gate 1.
 
wnflyguy
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Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:33 am

haynflyer wrote:
Oh wow! Thanks for the update. Those are indeed great gates to at. I wonder if it will be permanent?

Once HA moves its domestic mainland operations to it’s new concourse WN will end up with 7 permanent E gates and use gates F1 and F2 for midday operations only.
WN will have the ability to further increase its operations by another 30% in 2022. By summer 2022 WN will have all its IT issues fix so Hawaii flying especially HNL can operate almost 24/7 vs it’s everything done by 10:00PM HST/ 03:00 CST(Herb time). This should allow WN to offer Red Eyes.

Enjoy or don’t
Flyguy
 
Wneast
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Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:35 am

wnflyguy wrote:
haynflyer wrote:
Oh wow! Thanks for the update. Those are indeed great gates to at. I wonder if it will be permanent?

Once HA moves its domestic mainland operations to it’s new concourse WN will end up with 7 permanent E gates and use gates F1 and F2 for midday operations only.
WN will have the ability to further increase its operations by another 30% in 2022. By summer 2022 WN will have all its IT issues fix so Hawaii flying especially HNL can operate almost 24/7 vs it’s everything done by 10:00PM HST/ 03:00 CST(Herb time). This should allow WN to offer Red Eyes.

Enjoy or don’t
Flyguy

What are you anticipating from WN by next summer and we won’t get anything before the max 7 maybe not even some holiday adds ?
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2558
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 17, 2021 4:12 am

Wneast wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
haynflyer wrote:
Oh wow! Thanks for the update. Those are indeed great gates to at. I wonder if it will be permanent?

Once HA moves its domestic mainland operations to it’s new concourse WN will end up with 7 permanent E gates and use gates F1 and F2 for midday operations only.
WN will have the ability to further increase its operations by another 30% in 2022. By summer 2022 WN will have all its IT issues fix so Hawaii flying especially HNL can operate almost 24/7 vs it’s everything done by 10:00PM HST/ 03:00 CST(Herb time). This should allow WN to offer Red Eyes.

Enjoy or don’t
Flyguy

What are you anticipating from WN by next summer and we won’t get anything before the max 7 maybe not even some holiday adds ?


WN is short staffed right now in many departments like Inflight and pilots and are busting at the seems to cover their current flight
Schedules. so they need to backfill before they can increase operations further in Hawaii. I’d expect if the Delta
Variant winds down WN will wind back up to meet demand.
But the MAX7 I’m told isn’t expected to receive ETOPS
Certification until February 2022.

Enjoy or Don’t
Flyguy
 
Wneast
Posts: 1088
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 17, 2021 4:48 am

wnflyguy wrote:
Wneast wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Once HA moves its domestic mainland operations to it’s new concourse WN will end up with 7 permanent E gates and use gates F1 and F2 for midday operations only.
WN will have the ability to further increase its operations by another 30% in 2022. By summer 2022 WN will have all its IT issues fix so Hawaii flying especially HNL can operate almost 24/7 vs it’s everything done by 10:00PM HST/ 03:00 CST(Herb time). This should allow WN to offer Red Eyes.

Enjoy or don’t
Flyguy

What are you anticipating from WN by next summer and we won’t get anything before the max 7 maybe not even some holiday adds ?


WN is short staffed right now in many departments like Inflight and pilots and are busting at the seems to cover their current flight
Schedules. so they need to backfill before they can increase operations further in Hawaii. I’d expect if the Delta
Variant winds down WN will wind back up to meet demand.
But the MAX7 I’m told isn’t expected to receive ETOPS
Certification until February 2022.

Enjoy or Don’t
Flyguy

Has the max etops moved up from when it originally was going to be etops I thought that wasn’t happening tell summer of 2022 ?
 
KMCOFlyer
Posts: 324
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:32 am

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 17, 2021 5:55 am

wnflyguy wrote:
haynflyer wrote:
Oh wow! Thanks for the update. Those are indeed great gates to at. I wonder if it will be permanent?

Once HA moves its domestic mainland operations to it’s new concourse WN will end up with 7 permanent E gates and use gates F1 and F2 for midday operations only.
WN will have the ability to further increase its operations by another 30% in 2022. By summer 2022 WN will have all its IT issues fix so Hawaii flying especially HNL can operate almost 24/7 vs it’s everything done by 10:00PM HST/ 03:00 CST(Herb time). This should allow WN to offer Red Eyes.

Enjoy or don’t
Flyguy


What does HA moving into the Mauka concourse have anything to do with WN in E? HA hasn’t used the E Gates in ages and has all mainland flights out of C right now.
 
Wneast
Posts: 1088
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:05 am

KMCOFlyer wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
haynflyer wrote:
Oh wow! Thanks for the update. Those are indeed great gates to at. I wonder if it will be permanent?

Once HA moves its domestic mainland operations to it’s new concourse WN will end up with 7 permanent E gates and use gates F1 and F2 for midday operations only.
WN will have the ability to further increase its operations by another 30% in 2022. By summer 2022 WN will have all its IT issues fix so Hawaii flying especially HNL can operate almost 24/7 vs it’s everything done by 10:00PM HST/ 03:00 CST(Herb time). This should allow WN to offer Red Eyes.

Enjoy or don’t
Flyguy


What does HA moving into the Mauka concourse have anything to do with WN in E? HA hasn’t used the E Gates in ages and has all mainland flights out of C right now.

I think he might talking about other airlines like AS or delta taking some of the C gates which would allow for 7 of the gates be priority for WN flights is what I understand... because technically they would still be common use
 
DaCubbyBearBar
Posts: 404
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:31 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:42 am

jplatts wrote:
Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN flights out of Hawaii in May 2021:
HNL-ITO - 9307 passengers, 42525 seats, 21.89% load factor
HNL-KOA - 10837 passengers, 42875 seats, 25.28% load factor
HNL-LGB - 8272 passengers, 10850 seats, 76.24% load factor
HNL-LIH - 19121 passengers, 43400 seats, 44.06% load factor
HNL-OAK - 19785 passengers, 21700 seats, 91.18% load factor
HNL-OGG - 22154 passengers, 64050 seats, 34.59% load factor
HNL-SAN - 9264 passengers, 10850 seats, 85.38% load factor
HNL-SJC - 18582 passengers, 21875 seats, 84.95% load factor
HNL-SMF - 9628 passengers, 10675 seats, 90.19% load factor

KOA-OGG - 3720 passengers, 10850 seats, 34.29% load factor
LGB-OGG - 8347 passengers, 10850 seats, 76.93% load factor
OAK-OGG - 18627 passengers, 21700 seats, 85.84% load factor
OGG-SJC - 7809 passengers, 10850 seats, 71.97% load factor
OGG-SMF - 9393 passengers, 10850 seats, 86.57% load factor

KOA-OAK - 8658 passengers, 10850 seats, 79.80% load factor
KOA-SJC - 6859 passengers, 10850 seats, 63.22% load factor

Can use please get the HA numbers in identical markets so that we can have something of a comparison, please.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2558
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 17, 2021 4:38 pm

KMCOFlyer wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
haynflyer wrote:
Oh wow! Thanks for the update. Those are indeed great gates to at. I wonder if it will be permanent?

Once HA moves its domestic mainland operations to it’s new concourse WN will end up with 7 permanent E gates and use gates F1 and F2 for midday operations only.
WN will have the ability to further increase its operations by another 30% in 2022. By summer 2022 WN will have all its IT issues fix so Hawaii flying especially HNL can operate almost 24/7 vs it’s everything done by 10:00PM HST/ 03:00 CST(Herb time). This should allow WN to offer Red Eyes.

Enjoy or don’t
Flyguy


What does HA moving into the Mauka concourse have anything to do with WN in E? HA hasn’t used the E Gates in ages and has all mainland flights out of C right now.


Yes I know but this Fall there is going to be some major gate shuffling going on once HA moves out.
WN will be taking over some much needed Ramp side office space that is or was currently still being used by HA.
WN will permanently move out of the Hardstand G gates to make way for the upcoming DiamondHead rebuild/Expansion.
With Hawaiian new concourse finally opening up it sets up a huge domino effect on everyone else’s current operations.
While WN new gates are technically common use. WN will have preferential use it or lose it rights to 7 of the gates going forward.
Once the MAX7 ETOPS start arriving WN is going to have substantial sized Sub fleet of Mixed ETOPS aircraft.
WN HNL will easily expand to around 65-75 daily mixed
Inter Island/Mainland flights over the next two years.

Before COVID hit Hawaii was WN most successful start up to profit new market investment to date in it’s 50yr history.

So it’s Safe to say there not done with Hawaii expansion anytime soon.

Enjoy or don’t
Flyguy
 
mmahpeel
Posts: 99
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:18 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 17, 2021 5:02 pm

[/quote]

What does HA moving into the Mauka concourse have anything to do with WN in E? HA hasn’t used the E Gates in ages and has all mainland flights out of C right now.[/quote]

I've been routinely seeing HA 321s at the E gates the past few months. Not sure if they are arrivals, or maybe arrivals into RON but HA has been using E recently.
 
KMCOFlyer
Posts: 324
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:32 am

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 17, 2021 5:27 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
KMCOFlyer wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Once HA moves its domestic mainland operations to it’s new concourse WN will end up with 7 permanent E gates and use gates F1 and F2 for midday operations only.
WN will have the ability to further increase its operations by another 30% in 2022. By summer 2022 WN will have all its IT issues fix so Hawaii flying especially HNL can operate almost 24/7 vs it’s everything done by 10:00PM HST/ 03:00 CST(Herb time). This should allow WN to offer Red Eyes.

Enjoy or don’t
Flyguy


What does HA moving into the Mauka concourse have anything to do with WN in E? HA hasn’t used the E Gates in ages and has all mainland flights out of C right now.


Yes I know but this Fall there is going to be some major gate shuffling going on once HA moves out.
WN will be taking over some much needed Ramp side office space that is or was currently still being used by HA.
WN will permanently move out of the Hardstand G gates to make way for the upcoming DiamondHead rebuild/Expansion.
With Hawaiian new concourse finally opening up it sets up a huge domino effect on everyone else’s current operations.
While WN new gates are technically common use. WN will have preferential use it or lose it rights to 7 of the gates going forward.
Once the MAX7 ETOPS start arriving WN is going to have substantial sized Sub fleet of Mixed ETOPS aircraft.
WN HNL will easily expand to around 65-75 daily mixed
Inter Island/Mainland flights over the next two years.

Before COVID hit Hawaii was WN most successful start up to profit new market investment to date in it’s 50yr history.

So it’s Safe to say there not done with Hawaii expansion anytime soon.

Enjoy or don’t
Flyguy


I thought WN already permanently moved out of the lower level hardstand G Gates back in June? If WN is getting 7 preferential Gates in E I guess AS or DL will also be moving out into other Gates. I’d assume it’d be AS moving considering DL wouldn’t be too happy as the C Gates are quite the haul from the Delta SkyClub across the hall from Gate F1.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2558
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:25 pm

KMCOFlyer wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
KMCOFlyer wrote:

What does HA moving into the Mauka concourse have anything to do with WN in E? HA hasn’t used the E Gates in ages and has all mainland flights out of C right now.


Yes I know but this Fall there is going to be some major gate shuffling going on once HA moves out.
WN will be taking over some much needed Ramp side office space that is or was currently still being used by HA.
WN will permanently move out of the Hardstand G gates to make way for the upcoming DiamondHead rebuild/Expansion.
With Hawaiian new concourse finally opening up it sets up a huge domino effect on everyone else’s current operations.
While WN new gates are technically common use. WN will have preferential use it or lose it rights to 7 of the gates going forward.
Once the MAX7 ETOPS start arriving WN is going to have substantial sized Sub fleet of Mixed ETOPS aircraft.
WN HNL will easily expand to around 65-75 daily mixed
Inter Island/Mainland flights over the next two years.

Before COVID hit Hawaii was WN most successful start up to profit new market investment to date in it’s 50yr history.

So it’s Safe to say there not done with Hawaii expansion anytime soon.

Enjoy or don’t
Flyguy


I thought WN already permanently moved out of the lower level hardstand G Gates back in June? If WN is getting 7 preferential Gates in E I guess AS or DL will also be moving out into other Gates. I’d assume it’d be AS moving considering DL wouldn’t be too happy as the C Gates are quite the haul from the Delta SkyClub across the hall from Gate F1.


Yes WN did move flight activity to the New gates in June.
But they still house Ramp,Ops and Provo facilities in that office areas away from public views. Once HA relocates it’s office space for ground staff to the new concourse. WN will take over all of HA old office space at the E gates and shutters the office space at the ground level G gates.

Flyguy
 
Wneast
Posts: 1088
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:28 pm

Wnflyguy if they reach 75 inter island and main land flights how many potential more gate ways could we be seeing thats a lot of room for growth ?
 
toga998
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 8:09 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:22 pm

How are the two offshoot routes, AUS and MCO, for HA yielding? I'm sure they were a boom for summer travel, but the autumn will be an interesting season to observe the vacation migrations between the two mainland cities to Hawaii.
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4770
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:45 pm

kavok wrote:
jplatts wrote:
Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN flights out of Hawaii in May 2021:
HNL-ITO - 9307 passengers, 42525 seats, 21.89% load factor
HNL-KOA - 10837 passengers, 42875 seats, 25.28% load factor
HNL-LGB - 8272 passengers, 10850 seats, 76.24% load factor
HNL-LIH - 19121 passengers, 43400 seats, 44.06% load factor
HNL-OAK - 19785 passengers, 21700 seats, 91.18% load factor
HNL-OGG - 22154 passengers, 64050 seats, 34.59% load factor
HNL-SAN - 9264 passengers, 10850 seats, 85.38% load factor
HNL-SJC - 18582 passengers, 21875 seats, 84.95% load factor
HNL-SMF - 9628 passengers, 10675 seats, 90.19% load factor

KOA-OGG - 3720 passengers, 10850 seats, 34.29% load factor
LGB-OGG - 8347 passengers, 10850 seats, 76.93% load factor
OAK-OGG - 18627 passengers, 21700 seats, 85.84% load factor
OGG-SJC - 7809 passengers, 10850 seats, 71.97% load factor
OGG-SMF - 9393 passengers, 10850 seats, 86.57% load factor

KOA-OAK - 8658 passengers, 10850 seats, 79.80% load factor
KOA-SJC - 6859 passengers, 10850 seats, 63.22% load factor


Definitely quite the difference in performance between their intra island services vs. mainland to Hawaii services.


Just a reminder that these numbers are for May. COVID restrictions and WN’s Hawaii network have changed a lot since.
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4770
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:49 pm

KMCOFlyer wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
haynflyer wrote:
Oh wow! Thanks for the update. Those are indeed great gates to at. I wonder if it will be permanent?

Once HA moves its domestic mainland operations to it’s new concourse WN will end up with 7 permanent E gates and use gates F1 and F2 for midday operations only.
WN will have the ability to further increase its operations by another 30% in 2022. By summer 2022 WN will have all its IT issues fix so Hawaii flying especially HNL can operate almost 24/7 vs it’s everything done by 10:00PM HST/ 03:00 CST(Herb time). This should allow WN to offer Red Eyes.

Enjoy or don’t
Flyguy


What does HA moving into the Mauka concourse have anything to do with WN in E? HA hasn’t used the E Gates in ages and has all mainland flights out of C right now.


HA still has a flight or three at the E gates. But the opening of the new gates would allow others to shift out of E to C.
 
KMCOFlyer
Posts: 324
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:32 am

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:30 pm

Silver1SWA wrote:
KMCOFlyer wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Once HA moves its domestic mainland operations to it’s new concourse WN will end up with 7 permanent E gates and use gates F1 and F2 for midday operations only.
WN will have the ability to further increase its operations by another 30% in 2022. By summer 2022 WN will have all its IT issues fix so Hawaii flying especially HNL can operate almost 24/7 vs it’s everything done by 10:00PM HST/ 03:00 CST(Herb time). This should allow WN to offer Red Eyes.

Enjoy or don’t
Flyguy


What does HA moving into the Mauka concourse have anything to do with WN in E? HA hasn’t used the E Gates in ages and has all mainland flights out of C right now.


HA still has a flight or three at the E gates. But the opening of the new gates would allow others to shift out of E to C.


Do you know what airline is moving from E to C? AS?
 
DaCubbyBearBar
Posts: 404
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:31 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Aug 21, 2021 1:37 pm

The other half of Transair, operating the Shorts on a different AOC, did a gear up landing in HNL yesterday morning.
 
obelau24
Posts: 101
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:00 am

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:01 pm

Some of you guys are blowing my mind right now - so let’s have some fun please? Let’s say WN goes to 75 daily flights at HNL. What could we be taking about?
- OGG x10
- KOA x 10
- LIH x 10
- ITO x 5
- LAX x4
- SAN x3
- PHX x 3
- LAS x 4
- DEN x 4
- ONT x2
- SNA x 2
- OAK x 3
- SJC x 3
- SMF x 2
- PDX x 2
- SEA x 3
 
ytib
Posts: 722
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:22 am

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:46 pm

obelau24 wrote:
Some of you guys are blowing my mind right now - so let’s have some fun please? Let’s say WN goes to 75 daily flights at HNL. What could we be taking about?
- OGG x10
- KOA x 10
- LIH x 10
- ITO x 5
- LAX x4
- SAN x3
- PHX x 3
- LAS x 4
- DEN x 4
- ONT x2
- SNA x 2
- OAK x 3
- SJC x 3
- SMF x 2
- PDX x 2
- SEA x 3


SNA slots are limited so don't see that happening more than one
LGB: Not in the list but should be
DEN: Pushing range especially westbound and ETOPS restrictions
PDX/SEA: Limited WN flyer base there and not good connecting points for that many flights
LAS: To make 4x work would need to have the Hawai'i traffic for gambling and move them from HA.

Others on here will insist that GEG, BOI and BLI will get flights as well.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 10208
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 24, 2021 12:25 am

obelau24 wrote:
Some of you guys are blowing my mind right now - so let’s have some fun please? Let’s say WN goes to 75 daily flights at HNL. What could we be taking about?
- OGG x10
- KOA x 10
- LIH x 10


LIH and KOA have half the domestic passenger count of OGG for 12 months ending 12/2019.
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Posts: 4656
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 24, 2021 2:45 am

Just a reminder that sources are required when posting factual statements. If you cannot produce a source, it needs to be stated as unconfirmed information, or it may be subject to deletion.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
ScottB
Posts: 7599
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:05 pm

obelau24 wrote:
Some of you guys are blowing my mind right now - so let’s have some fun please? Let’s say WN goes to 75 daily flights at HNL. What could we be taking about?
- OGG x10
- KOA x 10
- LIH x 10
- ITO x 5
- LAX x4
- SAN x3
- PHX x 3
- LAS x 4
- DEN x 4
- ONT x2
- SNA x 2
- OAK x 3
- SJC x 3
- SMF x 2
- PDX x 2
- SEA x 3


As another poster pointed out, you left out LGB which could probably go to 2x. SEA won't happen. PDX is a maybe. I think LAX and OAK potentially could be 6x each. I'd expect BUR 2x. I think today's WN might try sub-daily to places like GEG/BOI/RNO/TUS/SBA. OGG could probably go to 8x, LIH/KOA to 6x, ITO is just going to suck but it shows commitment to the state. Maybe they can take some of the bulk ticket sales for group tours from Oahu to the volcanoes.
 
Wneast
Posts: 1088
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:33 pm

Sense we are having fun I imagine we might see a increase OGG flights as well, I’m not saying for sure I’m just guessing. I don’t know how many flights they would have there but anyone have any fun predictions about OGG ?
 
User avatar
aloha73g
Posts: 1952
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 6:30 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:44 pm

A Southwest executive did a long interview with the Honolulu Star-Advertiser a few weeks ago and he said there is no plans for a crew base.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vEtfvbAggTw

-Aloha!
 
chrisair
Posts: 2234
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2000 11:32 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:52 pm

ScottB wrote:
As another poster pointed out, you left out LGB which could probably go to 2x. SEA won't happen. PDX is a maybe. I think LAX and OAK potentially could be 6x each. I'd expect BUR 2x.


Good lord. 12x daily flights from OAK and LAX on just WN? Here’s a question that might not be too popular but how can Hawaii manage that amount of visitors? Things are already strained.
 
ScottB
Posts: 7599
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:27 pm

chrisair wrote:
Good lord. 12x daily flights from OAK and LAX on just WN? Here’s a question that might not be too popular but how can Hawaii manage that amount of visitors? Things are already strained.


Just today, UA has 2 777-300ERs (350 seats each) and 2 757-300s (234 seats each) operating LAX-HNL for a total of 1,168 seats each way. For SFO-HNL today, they're operating 3 77W's and 1 767-300ER (167 seats) for a total of 1,217 seats each way. Six 737-800s/MAX 8's would be 1,050 seats; that's not out-of-line considering the scope of WN's operations at LAX or OAK.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 10208
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:36 pm

chrisair wrote:
ScottB wrote:
As another poster pointed out, you left out LGB which could probably go to 2x. SEA won't happen. PDX is a maybe. I think LAX and OAK potentially could be 6x each. I'd expect BUR 2x.


Good lord. 12x daily flights from OAK and LAX on just WN? Here’s a question that might not be too popular but how can Hawaii manage that amount of visitors? Things are already strained.


They talk about 30K hotel rooms along Waikiki as support for the Convention Center. T&L suggested a couple years ago there were also 8-10K vacation rentals on Oahu.

As for being strained... Hawaii isn't as bad as Venice but they do complain about tourist hordes yet rely on the money.
 
User avatar
aloha73g
Posts: 1952
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 6:30 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:44 am

Anti tourism sentiment in Hawaii has been growing in recent years. Since 2019 it has exploded. A recent poll showed that for the first time ever a majority of residents think that tourism is an overall negative. Also, the number one complaint of tourists is that it is too crowded. The HTA (led by a Hawaiian for the time) has changed their mission to tourism management from tourism marketing.

Things WILL be changing. The recently passed state budget made major changes to the transient accommodation tax that (hopefully) will lead to less visitors overall. All of those illegal short term rentals are being tracked down and shut down by the counties. I can guarantee for you that the vast majority of rentals listed on AirBnB and similar sites are Illegal…. FYI, there are less than 200 legal STRs on Oahu.

Bottom Line, if Southwest runs 12x/day from anywhere in the continent to Hawaii, any goodwill they’ve earned with locals (including me) will evaporate in a poof. When the mayor of Maui is begging airlines to cut back on flights, that says something.

-Aloha!
 
Wneast
Posts: 1088
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Aug 25, 2021 1:02 am

I don’t mean to be rude but what would the Hawaiian locals do without us tourist if you want us to not come then just say by to your tourist dollars coming to your state
 
User avatar
aloha73g
Posts: 1952
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 6:30 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:18 am

Wneast wrote:
I don’t mean to be rude but what would the Hawaiian locals do without us tourist if you want us to not come then just say by to your tourist dollars coming to your state


I don’t care, many locals and most Native Hawaiians don’t either. Maybe I’d move to the big island and work in my cousin’s Kalo Lo‘i. When my grandma was born on Maui in the 1920s the population was less than 40,000…now there’s nearly twice that may TOURISTS on Maui each day (58k+ in May 2021 … during a pandemic). I would gladly live a much simpler life in an alternate universe with no tourism.

There’s more to life than “economic benefits” from extractive tourism. If leaders can’t figure something out the system will self implode. Check out the online content of locals screaming at and harassing arrogant, ignorant and obnoxious tourists during Covid…it’s good fun.

Locals think there’s too many tourists, tourists think there’s too many tourists…. That sounds unsustainable from both ends.

The focus should be on QUALITY of visitors and not QUANTITY. Compare 2019 to 1989—60% the number of visitors and the same amount of spending. All illegal short term rentals (the vast majority) should be shut down. There cannot and should not be year-over-year growth of airline seats to Hawaii.
 
XRadar98
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun May 01, 2016 4:23 am

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:24 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
chrisair wrote:
ScottB wrote:
As another poster pointed out, you left out LGB which could probably go to 2x. SEA won't happen. PDX is a maybe. I think LAX and OAK potentially could be 6x each. I'd expect BUR 2x.


Good lord. 12x daily flights from OAK and LAX on just WN? Here’s a question that might not be too popular but how can Hawaii manage that amount of visitors? Things are already strained.


They talk about 30K hotel rooms along Waikiki as support for the Convention Center. T&L suggested a couple years ago there were also 8-10K vacation rentals on Oahu.

As for being strained... Hawaii isn't as bad as Venice but they do complain about tourist hordes yet rely on the money.


And they don’t even have international back yet. What will happen when JAL and ANA come back? Governor Ige is asking for people to not visit now.
As Hawaii was once my home, and will be again soon, I hope they figure it out. The tourist dollars are needed, but where is the cut-off
 
Wneast
Posts: 1088
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:24 am

aloha73g wrote:
Wneast wrote:
I don’t mean to be rude but what would the Hawaiian locals do without us tourist if you want us to not come then just say by to your tourist dollars coming to your state


I don’t care, many locals and most Native Hawaiians don’t either. Maybe I’d move to the big island and work in my cousin’s Kalo Lo‘i. When my grandma was born on Maui in the 1920s the population was less than 40,000…now there’s nearly twice that may TOURISTS on Maui each day (58k+ in May 2021 … during a pandemic). I would gladly live a much simpler life in an alternate universe with no tourism.

There’s more to life than “economic benefits” from extractive tourism. If leaders can’t figure something out the system will self implode. Check out the online content of locals screaming at and harassing arrogant, ignorant and obnoxious tourists during Covid…it’s good fun.

Locals think there’s too many tourists, tourists think there’s too many tourists…. That sounds unsustainable from both ends.

The focus should be on QUALITY of visitors and not QUANTITY. Compare 2019 to 1989—60% the number of visitors and the same amount of spending. All illegal short term rentals (the vast majority) should be shut down. There cannot and should not be year-over-year growth of airline seats to Hawaii.

You could gladly tell that WN but I think they could care less if there’s room for more flights from them and they keep making even more money they won’t just stop more flights neither will the other airlines. Also would the locals tell HA to stop adding flights ?
 
smartplane
Posts: 1767
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:23 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:56 am

aloha73g wrote:
There’s more to life than “economic benefits” from extractive tourism. If leaders can’t figure something out the system will self implode. Check out the online content of locals screaming at and harassing arrogant, ignorant and obnoxious tourists during Covid…it’s good fun.

Locals think there’s too many tourists, tourists think there’s too many tourists…. That sounds unsustainable from both ends.

The focus should be on QUALITY of visitors and not QUANTITY. Compare 2019 to 1989—60% the number of visitors and the same amount of spending. All illegal short term rentals (the vast majority) should be shut down. There cannot and should not be year-over-year growth of airline seats to Hawaii.

The NZ Government seems to have come to the same conclusion. Quality not quantity.
 
User avatar
aloha73g
Posts: 1952
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 6:30 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Aug 25, 2021 6:29 am

Wneast wrote:
aloha73g wrote:
Wneast wrote:
I don’t mean to be rude but what would the Hawaiian locals do without us tourist if you want us to not come then just say by to your tourist dollars coming to your state


I don’t care, many locals and most Native Hawaiians don’t either. Maybe I’d move to the big island and work in my cousin’s Kalo Lo‘i. When my grandma was born on Maui in the 1920s the population was less than 40,000…now there’s nearly twice that may TOURISTS on Maui each day (58k+ in May 2021 … during a pandemic). I would gladly live a much simpler life in an alternate universe with no tourism.

There’s more to life than “economic benefits” from extractive tourism. If leaders can’t figure something out the system will self implode. Check out the online content of locals screaming at and harassing arrogant, ignorant and obnoxious tourists during Covid…it’s good fun.

Locals think there’s too many tourists, tourists think there’s too many tourists…. That sounds unsustainable from both ends.

The focus should be on QUALITY of visitors and not QUANTITY. Compare 2019 to 1989—60% the number of visitors and the same amount of spending. All illegal short term rentals (the vast majority) should be shut down. There cannot and should not be year-over-year growth of airline seats to Hawaii.

You could gladly tell that WN but I think they could care less if there’s room for more flights from them and they keep making even more money they won’t just stop more flights neither will the other airlines. Also would the locals tell HA to stop adding flights ?


I don’t have to tell anyone. Elected leaders are already making it known. And so is the Hawaii Tourism Authority. If they keep bring more people the residents will hate tourism more and the tourists will have worse & worse experiences… which will hopefully mean they won’t come back, thereby solving the “problem.” Hotel owners have formed a group to tackle this issue. They know it’s a ticking time bomb.

If you’re truly interested in over tourism concerns in Hawaii here’s some reading:

https://www.civilbeat.org/2021/06/house ... ople-want/

https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/hawaii-t ... 00594.html

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2021/06/2 ... -visitors/

https://www.civilbeat.org/2021/08/trish ... or-action/

https://www.civilbeat.org/2021/07/chad- ... ings-true/

And yes, if HA (or any other airline) was going to double their ASMs between Hawaii and the continent, I would not be alone in complaining about it. Much of the interview between a WN executive and the Star-Advertiser I posted above was about this issue. He insisted that WN wants to be positive benefit in the community and also serve the needs of Hawaii residents …. Flights to Hilo and non-stops to Vegas are a good start, but they are just that—a start.

-Aloha!

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