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Wneast
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Aug 25, 2021 6:35 am

aloha73g wrote:
Wneast wrote:
aloha73g wrote:

I don’t care, many locals and most Native Hawaiians don’t either. Maybe I’d move to the big island and work in my cousin’s Kalo Lo‘i. When my grandma was born on Maui in the 1920s the population was less than 40,000…now there’s nearly twice that may TOURISTS on Maui each day (58k+ in May 2021 … during a pandemic). I would gladly live a much simpler life in an alternate universe with no tourism.

There’s more to life than “economic benefits” from extractive tourism. If leaders can’t figure something out the system will self implode. Check out the online content of locals screaming at and harassing arrogant, ignorant and obnoxious tourists during Covid…it’s good fun.

Locals think there’s too many tourists, tourists think there’s too many tourists…. That sounds unsustainable from both ends.

The focus should be on QUALITY of visitors and not QUANTITY. Compare 2019 to 1989—60% the number of visitors and the same amount of spending. All illegal short term rentals (the vast majority) should be shut down. There cannot and should not be year-over-year growth of airline seats to Hawaii.

You could gladly tell that WN but I think they could care less if there’s room for more flights from them and they keep making even more money they won’t just stop more flights neither will the other airlines. Also would the locals tell HA to stop adding flights ?


I don’t have to tell anyone. Elected leaders are already making it known. And so is the Hawaii Tourism Authority. If they keep bring more people the residents will hate tourism more and the tourists will have worse & worse experiences… which will hopefully mean they won’t come back, thereby solving the “problem.” Hotel owners have formed a group to tackle this issue. They know it’s a ticking time bomb.

If you’re truly interested in over tourism concerns in Hawaii here’s some reading:

https://www.civilbeat.org/2021/06/house ... ople-want/

https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/hawaii-t ... 00594.html

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2021/06/2 ... -visitors/

https://www.civilbeat.org/2021/08/trish ... or-action/

https://www.civilbeat.org/2021/07/chad- ... ings-true/

And yes, if HA (or any other airline) was going to double their ASMs between Hawaii and the continent, I would not be alone in complaining about it. Much of the interview between a WN executive and the Star-Advertiser I posted above was about this issue. He insisted that WN wants to be positive benefit in the community and also serve the needs of Hawaii residents …. Flights to Hilo and non-stops to Vegas are a good start, but they are just that—a start.

-Aloha!

I saw that I think WN is really trying too listen to the community on what the do next because they want be wanted and get in good with the locals
 
Silver1SWA
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:50 am

Personally I think there’s been some misinterpretation with the WN expansion rumors. I wonder if instead of the goal of 100+ daily flights at HNL they actually mean ETOPS crossings to/from the islands.

As for local sentiments regarding tourism…they blame tourists on the COVID numbers yet the numbers show tourism isn’t the source of spread. On Oahu the hottest spot on the island is the Waianae coast where tourists don’t go. Almost wish they’d cut all travel to/from the islands just to show that it won’t help the numbers until behaviors change locally.

It has been a rough summer. The airlines just threw everything they have at Hawaii with no regard for the state’s ability to handle the tourism surge. That comment above about goodwill being thrown out the window, I feel that may have already happened to an extent.
 
Wneast
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:55 am

I’m with you it could be a hundred plus ETOPs crossings to hawaii... but with that’s HNL still could grow to a reasonable 60 departures we will see what happens next. I mean there is definitely more flight not just coming to HNL but they other islands they will have 88 etops certified planes when the Max 7 etops start to arrive and they could have a couple spares but it’s not like they won’t use them to increase and add more routes
 
ejl01
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:53 pm

The Mauka Concourse opens this Friday. 12 new gates, 6 new TSA lines. https://www.staradvertiser.com/2021/08/26/hawaii-news/270m-honolulu-airport-concourse-set-to-open/
 
KMCOFlyer
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:06 pm

ejl01 wrote:
The Mauka Concourse opens this Friday. 12 new gates, 6 new TSA lines. https://www.staradvertiser.com/2021/08/26/hawaii-news/270m-honolulu-airport-concourse-set-to-open/


Sounds like this is where HA will primarily operate their A321neo flights to the mainland from. I guess a breakdown of ops will likely be A321neos out of the Mauka Concourse, Inter-Island in A/B, and widebodies out of C.
 
Wneast
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Aug 28, 2021 4:20 am

As crazy as some people think that’s 65-100 number departures at HNL, more likely 65-75 they are already at 34 and will be 37 at least by the end of the year and rumored that by the end of the year they will be at 50 departures by year end depending on the situation it doesn’t seem out of the realm of possibilities really
 
DaCubbyBearBar
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:18 am

Wneast wrote:
As crazy as some people think that’s 65-100 number departures at HNL, more likely 65-75 they are already at 34 and will be 37 at least by the end of the year and rumored that by the end of the year they will be at 50 departures by year end depending on the situation it doesn’t seem out of the realm of possibilities really

So, what you are saying is, SWA is literally going to DOUBLE in size in HNL?? Humor me with where SWA is going to add 25 mainland daily flights. Giving SWA 40-45 mainland flights a day would require a footprint at HNL that I see as requiring something in the neighborhood 60 hours of gate time. Then add 20-25 inter island flights, another 25 hours of gate time. As far as I can tell, only HA gets assigned gates, so everyone else is a free for all. I just do not see this all fitting in a schedule with all other airlines. When International flights resume, there is no where for anything extra.
 
Wneast
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Aug 28, 2021 6:33 pm

DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
Wneast wrote:
As crazy as some people think that’s 65-100 number departures at HNL, more likely 65-75 they are already at 34 and will be 37 at least by the end of the year and rumored that by the end of the year they will be at 50 departures by year end depending on the situation it doesn’t seem out of the realm of possibilities really

So, what you are saying is, SWA is literally going to DOUBLE in size in HNL?? Humor me with where SWA is going to add 25 mainland daily flights. Giving SWA 40-45 mainland flights a day would require a footprint at HNL that I see as requiring something in the neighborhood 60 hours of gate time. Then add 20-25 inter island flights, another 25 hours of gate time. As far as I can tell, only HA gets assigned gates, so everyone else is a free for all. I just do not see this all fitting in a schedule with all other airlines. When International flights resume, there is no where for anything extra.

As said up thread they are getting priority use on 7 gates and 2 more during the day so that’s Plenty of space to expand. And when WN starts red eyes that increases space in those gates. Plus with HA new gates they airport is increasing by 12 gates so the other airlines have plenty of room right now.... idk what they will do INT comes back but they won’t just kick WN out if they are using the gates
 
DaCubbyBearBar
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:51 pm

Okay, I screwed up. My point is, for all of you implying/rumoring that SWA is going up to anywhere from 65 to 100 flights, WHERE ARE THE MAINLAND FLIGHTS GOING?? 40 to 60 mainland flights?? WHERE? At an average of 162 seats, figuring some will be MAX7, that is over 6400 seats a day at 40 flights. At 60 that is over 9700 seats a day. That is the equivalent to UA running over 18/27 777-300s a day or HA doing over 23/35 mainland a day. Where are these 40+ mainland flights going?
 
Wneast
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:11 pm

DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
Okay, I screwed up. My point is, for all of you implying/rumoring that SWA is going up to anywhere from 65 to 100 flights, WHERE ARE THE MAINLAND FLIGHTS GOING?? 40 to 60 mainland flights?? WHERE? At an average of 162 seats, figuring some will be MAX7, that is over 6400 seats a day at 40 flights. At 60 that is over 9700 seats a day. That is the equivalent to UA running over 18/27 777-300s a day or HA doing over 23/35 mainland a day. Where are these 40+ mainland flights going?

I take it you mean what destinations there going to on the mainland if they flew that many main land flights from HNL
 
Silver1SWA
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 29, 2021 12:23 am

Wneast wrote:
DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
Wneast wrote:
As crazy as some people think that’s 65-100 number departures at HNL, more likely 65-75 they are already at 34 and will be 37 at least by the end of the year and rumored that by the end of the year they will be at 50 departures by year end depending on the situation it doesn’t seem out of the realm of possibilities really

So, what you are saying is, SWA is literally going to DOUBLE in size in HNL?? Humor me with where SWA is going to add 25 mainland daily flights. Giving SWA 40-45 mainland flights a day would require a footprint at HNL that I see as requiring something in the neighborhood 60 hours of gate time. Then add 20-25 inter island flights, another 25 hours of gate time. As far as I can tell, only HA gets assigned gates, so everyone else is a free for all. I just do not see this all fitting in a schedule with all other airlines. When International flights resume, there is no where for anything extra.

As said up thread they are getting priority use on 7 gates and 2 more during the day so that’s Plenty of space to expand. And when WN starts red eyes that increases space in those gates. Plus with HA new gates they airport is increasing by 12 gates so the other airlines have plenty of room right now.... idk what they will do INT comes back but they won’t just kick WN out if they are using the gates


A typical WN operation would have 10-12 flights a day out of each gate so yeah 7-9 gates could handle 70-80 flights a day.

A typical HNL operation has a series of departure and arrival banks (morning, midday and evening/redeye). Everyone with the exception of Hawaiian and their interisland operation pretty much fall within those banks and so far that includes WN. When they add ETOPS flights they add them at the same time as the others, rather than fill the gaps. This is why they run 34 flights out of 9 different gates instead of 3 or 4 gates like they would in most mainland cities. There’s 4 times a day where they have 6-7 planes on the ground at the same time.

That’s not to say they won’t change they way they schedule flights. But don’t assume they can run the same gate frequency as other cities. ETOPS requires more ground time so that alone limits things.
Last edited by Silver1SWA on Sun Aug 29, 2021 12:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
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DL757NYC
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 29, 2021 12:24 am

Does anyone think HA will buy retired DL 717’s for use in the future. The 717 is built to handle 100k+cycles.
 
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usxguy
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 29, 2021 1:59 am

Starting September 1, Mokulele will be up to 136 flights a day. Well above the number pre-covid.

Word on the street the airline is now looking at a different airplane than the Beech 1900 - because there are so few left in flyable condition.
 
DaCubbyBearBar
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:16 am

DL757NYC wrote:
Does anyone think HA will buy retired DL 717’s for use in the future. The 717 is built to handle 100k+cycles.

I do think that HA will look for some of DL 717s to join their fleet to stretch out the hours flown on each bird. Also can retire a couple of the high hour/cycle ones. Unless they are going to just jump to an A220 or E195 fleet replacement on a 1 for 1 basis.
 
DaCubbyBearBar
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:40 am

Wneast wrote:
DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
Okay, I screwed up. My point is, for all of you implying/rumoring that SWA is going up to anywhere from 65 to 100 flights, WHERE ARE THE MAINLAND FLIGHTS GOING?? 40 to 60 mainland flights?? WHERE? At an average of 162 seats, figuring some will be MAX7, that is over 6400 seats a day at 40 flights. At 60 that is over 9700 seats a day. That is the equivalent to UA running over 18/27 777-300s a day or HA doing over 23/35 mainland a day. Where are these 40+ mainland flights going?

I take it you mean what destinations there going to on the mainland if they flew that many main land flights from HNL

Yes… I mean destinations and frequencies. How is SWA getting to 40?? I can’t see it, so for those who say 65+ flights, please give me a hypothetical list of destinations and frequencies. Please … Mahalo
 
Wneast
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:53 am

DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
Wneast wrote:
DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
Okay, I screwed up. My point is, for all of you implying/rumoring that SWA is going up to anywhere from 65 to 100 flights, WHERE ARE THE MAINLAND FLIGHTS GOING?? 40 to 60 mainland flights?? WHERE? At an average of 162 seats, figuring some will be MAX7, that is over 6400 seats a day at 40 flights. At 60 that is over 9700 seats a day. That is the equivalent to UA running over 18/27 777-300s a day or HA doing over 23/35 mainland a day. Where are these 40+ mainland flights going?

I take it you mean what destinations there going to on the mainland if they flew that many main land flights from HNL

Yes… I mean destinations and frequencies. How is SWA getting to 40?? I can’t see it, so for those who say 65+ flights, please give me a hypothetical list of destinations and frequencies. Please … Mahalo

Well I know at least additional frequency and adds I could see to HNL are, ONT 1-2 frequency, BUR 1-2 frequency, SJC going to 3 daily with a red eye, LAX increased to 4x daily, SNA 1-2 daily, some people will debate this one buts it been said that the Max 7 can reach DEN to hawaii both ways so I would say 4x daily, SAN eventually 3x daily, SMF 2x Daily, maybe PDX 1-2 daily, BLI 1x daily, LGB, goes back to two daily year round, PHX 3x daily, I’m not including SEA or SLC because i feel those are unlikely but who knows what WN could do at this rate. One I really think could be done though when they enter ANC a 1x daily. This are totally my guess I know they probably won’t be right but this is what I’m thinking. And for inter island , OGG 8x-10 daily, LIH 6x daily , ITO 5x daily ,KOA 6X daily
Last edited by Wneast on Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Wneast
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:00 am

Wneast wrote:
DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
Wneast wrote:
I take it you mean what destinations there going to on the mainland if they flew that many main land flights from HNL

Yes… I mean destinations and frequencies. How is SWA getting to 40?? I can’t see it, so for those who say 65+ flights, please give me a hypothetical list of destinations and frequencies. Please … Mahalo

Well I know at least additional frequency and adds I could see to HNL are, ONT 1-2 frequency, BUR 1-2 frequency, SJC going to 3 daily with a red eye, LAX increased to 4x daily, SNA 1-2 daily, some people will debate this one buts it been said that the Max 7 can reach DEN to hawaii both ways so I would say 4x daily, SAN eventually 3x daily, SMF 2x Daily, maybe PDX 1-2 daily, BLI 1x daily, LGB, goes back to two daily year round, PHX 3x daily, I’m not including SEA or SLC because i feel those are unlikely but who knows what WN could do at this rate. One I really think could be done though when they enter ANC a 1x daily. This are totally my guess I know they probably won’t be right but this os what I’m thinking. And for inter island , OGG 8x-10 daily, LIH 6x daily , ITO 5x daily ,KOA 6X daily

This also doesn’t include OAK already at 3x daily and LAS 2x daily I think one daily in the off season. Also some of these destinations have room for potential of more frequency because of the max 7
 
OAHU747
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:39 am

Wneast wrote:
DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
Wneast wrote:
I take it you mean what destinations there going to on the mainland if they flew that many main land flights from HNL

Yes… I mean destinations and frequencies. How is SWA getting to 40?? I can’t see it, so for those who say 65+ flights, please give me a hypothetical list of destinations and frequencies. Please … Mahalo

Well I know at least additional frequency and adds I could see to HNL are, ONT 1-2 frequency, BUR 1-2 frequency, SJC going to 3 daily with a red eye, LAX increased to 4x daily, SNA 1-2 daily, some people will debate this one buts it been said that the Max 7 can reach DEN to hawaii both ways so I would say 4x daily, SAN eventually 3x daily, SMF 2x Daily, maybe PDX 1-2 daily, BLI 1x daily, LGB, goes back to two daily year round, PHX 3x daily, I’m not including SEA or SLC because i feel those are unlikely but who knows what WN could do at this rate. One I really think could be done though when they enter ANC a 1x daily. This are totally my guess I know they probably won’t be right but this is what I’m thinking. And for inter island , OGG 8x-10 daily, LIH 6x daily , ITO 5x daily ,KOA 6X daily


This is incredibly ambitious. Can the market support these additional frequencies? Can WN fill 175 seats on all of these frequencies? What gates would WN use at HNL for these flights? (WN doesn't have preferred use gates at HNL) Do the other Hawaiian stations have the staffing and gate space to accept these HNL flights? There's lots more to consider than just picking cities on the West Coast and saying "Oh, we'll do 2 or 3x from there!"

HNL will fill up quickly for WN once they hit 40 flights. Like has been said, WN aims for 10 flights per gate on the mainland, but with ETOPS in HNL that gets reduced dramatically.
 
Wneast
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:51 am

OAHU747 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
Yes… I mean destinations and frequencies. How is SWA getting to 40?? I can’t see it, so for those who say 65+ flights, please give me a hypothetical list of destinations and frequencies. Please … Mahalo

Well I know at least additional frequency and adds I could see to HNL are, ONT 1-2 frequency, BUR 1-2 frequency, SJC going to 3 daily with a red eye, LAX increased to 4x daily, SNA 1-2 daily, some people will debate this one buts it been said that the Max 7 can reach DEN to hawaii both ways so I would say 4x daily, SAN eventually 3x daily, SMF 2x Daily, maybe PDX 1-2 daily, BLI 1x daily, LGB, goes back to two daily year round, PHX 3x daily, I’m not including SEA or SLC because i feel those are unlikely but who knows what WN could do at this rate. One I really think could be done though when they enter ANC a 1x daily. This are totally my guess I know they probably won’t be right but this is what I’m thinking. And for inter island , OGG 8x-10 daily, LIH 6x daily , ITO 5x daily ,KOA 6X daily


This is incredibly ambitious. Can the market support these additional frequencies? Can WN fill 175 seats on all of these frequencies? What gates would WN use at HNL for these flights? (WN doesn't have preferred use gates at HNL) Do the other Hawaiian stations have the staffing and gate space to accept these HNL flights? There's lots more to consider than just picking cities on the West Coast and saying "Oh, we'll do 2 or 3x from there!"

HNL will fill up quickly for WN once they hit 40 flights. Like has been said, WN aims for 10 flights per gate on the mainland, but with ETOPS in HNL that gets reduced dramatically.

I know there lots to consider and it wouldn’t all be done in a year... plus the max 7 has 150 seats so that does make some frequency of say 2x-3x more fillable
 
BeachBoy
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 29, 2021 4:54 pm

There is no way WN will get close to 100 flights, even 60 is a stretch, unless HA goes away.

The markets are just not there w/ all the competition. And unlike in their bread and butter short haul markets on the mainland where frequency is their huge advantage (ironically their role in the interisland market is the opposite since HA trounces them in terms of frequency), they donʻt offer a compelling product over the competition. Iʻm not bashing WN, just trying to make the point that there will be no long term "Southwest effect" in the West Coast-Hawaii market to allow them to get to 100 flights. When someone posts the pax numbers in a few months Iʻm sure most will be below 75% LF.

Anecdotally, despite their efforts to build goodwill among the people in Hawaii, Iʻve yet to meet someone who has switched from HA to WN for interisland or West Coast flying.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 29, 2021 5:13 pm

BeachBoy wrote:
There is no way WN will get close to 100 flights, even 60 is a stretch, unless HA goes away.

The markets are just not there w/ all the competition. And unlike in their bread and butter short haul markets on the mainland where frequency is their huge advantage (ironically their role in the interisland market is the opposite since HA trounces them in terms of frequency), they donʻt offer a compelling product over the competition. Iʻm not bashing WN, just trying to make the point that there will be no long term "Southwest effect" in the West Coast-Hawaii market to allow them to get to 100 flights. When someone posts the pax numbers in a few months Iʻm sure most will be below 75% LF.


I don't disagree with your assessment overall but I will suggest that 'Two bags fly free' does bring value to infrequent flyers who lack carrier elite status or credit cards to give them a single free bag.

I'll add that lack of seat assignments on six-hour flights, absence of redeyes to aid Midwest/East connectivity, no screens, and no Y+/F can't help yields. Whether WN can be profitable at these fares and baggage handling costs at 75% LF won't be known outside of WN. We'll just have to infer from how stable routes and frequencies prove to be.

There's a ton of overly simplistic armchair route planning that gets posted to a.net. Poster enthusiasm is not a good proxy for intelligently planned routes leading to solid margins. It takes some pretty heavy passenger numbers to support six carriers (HA, UA, DL, AA, AS, WN) in a long-haul U.S. domestic passenger airport pair. Even JFK-LAX/SFO see five, not six.
 
chrisair
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:48 pm

BeachBoy wrote:

Anecdotally, despite their efforts to build goodwill among the people in Hawaii, Iʻve yet to meet someone who has switched from HA to WN for interisland or West Coast flying.


All my friends in Maui moved to WN for inter island and mainland. Granted I don’t have a lot of friends in Maui so my sample size is very limited…and it’s not like they’re flying anywhere these days anyway…
 
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barney captain
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:02 pm

usxguy wrote:
Starting September 1, Mokulele will be up to 136 flights a day. Well above the number pre-covid.

Word on the street the airline is now looking at a different airplane than the Beech 1900 - because there are so few left in flyable condition.


Expect the Saab 340B to join the fleet, operated by Southern Airways Express.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:21 pm

Does Hawaii now charge a fee or tax on air travel to the State? Wonder if it is legal if they added a "Traveler Impact Fee" ? They could probably make it rebate able to Hawaiian residents.
 
chrisair
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Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2000 11:32 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:28 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
Does Hawaii now charge a fee or tax on air travel to the State? Wonder if it is legal if they added a "Traveler Impact Fee" ? They could probably make it rebate able to Hawaiian residents.


They charge a “tourist tax” on hotels and short term rentals.
 
WkndWanderer
Posts: 355
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:44 pm

Wneast wrote:
DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
Wneast wrote:
I take it you mean what destinations there going to on the mainland if they flew that many main land flights from HNL

Yes… I mean destinations and frequencies. How is SWA getting to 40?? I can’t see it, so for those who say 65+ flights, please give me a hypothetical list of destinations and frequencies. Please … Mahalo

Well I know at least additional frequency and adds I could see to HNL are, ONT 1-2 frequency, BUR 1-2 frequency, SJC going to 3 daily with a red eye, LAX increased to 4x daily, SNA 1-2 daily, some people will debate this one buts it been said that the Max 7 can reach DEN to hawaii both ways so I would say 4x daily, SAN eventually 3x daily, SMF 2x Daily, maybe PDX 1-2 daily, BLI 1x daily, LGB, goes back to two daily year round, PHX 3x daily, I’m not including SEA or SLC because i feel those are unlikely but who knows what WN could do at this rate. One I really think could be done though when they enter ANC a 1x daily. This are totally my guess I know they probably won’t be right but this is what I’m thinking. And for inter island , OGG 8x-10 daily, LIH 6x daily , ITO 5x daily ,KOA 6X daily


WN has historically been a well-run airline that doesn’t intentionally light money on fire. Many of the carriers you mention have hubs on the mainland ends and aren’t simply going to roll over (ANC-HNL against AS, really?). Driving yields into the toilet only works temporarily if you’re going to cause a competitor to fold, but LAX, PHX, PDX, ANC aren’t places where that’s going to happen given the networks and hubs of the existing players.
 
ScottB
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:02 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
Wonder if it is legal if they added a "Traveler Impact Fee" ?


Unlikely to be legal as a restraint on interstate commerce; that is a power constitutionally reserved to the federal government.

DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
I do think that HA will look for some of DL 717s to join their fleet to stretch out the hours flown on each bird. Also can retire a couple of the high hour/cycle ones. Unless they are going to just jump to an A220 or E195 fleet replacement on a 1 for 1 basis.


I think it's going to be tough for HA and QantasLink to keep operating the 717 once DL parks theirs. Getting parts at reasonable cost from suppliers will be very difficult and some parts are time-limited, so they can't just scavenge from Delta's retired fleet. Who knows, maybe Boeing quietly sweetened the deal for 787s at HA with a commitment to keep the 717s supported at reasonable cost for several years.
 
ASFlyer
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 01, 2021 1:38 am

chrisair wrote:
BeachBoy wrote:

Anecdotally, despite their efforts to build goodwill among the people in Hawaii, Iʻve yet to meet someone who has switched from HA to WN for interisland or West Coast flying.


All my friends in Maui moved to WN for inter island and mainland. Granted I don’t have a lot of friends in Maui so my sample size is very limited…and it’s not like they’re flying anywhere these days anyway…


I've seen load factors posted on this forum for WN in Hawaii. If accurate, they're not good at all. Very bad actually. I'd be surprised if there wasn't some cuts coming down the pike. WN is not used to flying money losing routes and adding interisland flights in a market where the entire state is wrapped up in the loyalty program of Hawaiian Airlines and, generally speaking, just loyal to their airline - it was an uphill battle at best. They're doing good on their west coast - Hawaii stuff, that's where they're going to focus I think. I also don't see them jumping into second markets along the west coast. It's a different age - the WN affect isn't what it once was.
 
Wneast
Posts: 1067
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 01, 2021 1:46 am

ASFlyer wrote:
chrisair wrote:
BeachBoy wrote:

Anecdotally, despite their efforts to build goodwill among the people in Hawaii, Iʻve yet to meet someone who has switched from HA to WN for interisland or West Coast flying.


All my friends in Maui moved to WN for inter island and mainland. Granted I don’t have a lot of friends in Maui so my sample size is very limited…and it’s not like they’re flying anywhere these days anyway…


I've seen load factors posted on this forum for WN in Hawaii. If accurate, they're not good at all. Very bad actually. I'd be surprised if there wasn't some cuts coming down the pike. WN is not used to flying money losing routes and adding interisland flights in a market where the entire state is wrapped up in the loyalty program of Hawaiian Airlines and, generally speaking, just loyal to their airline - it was an uphill battle at best. They're doing good on their west coast - Hawaii stuff, that's where they're going to focus I think. I also don't see them jumping into second markets along the west coast. It's a different age - the WN affect isn't what it once was.

I would just to say did you see Hawaiians loads they weren’t really better and those loads are all up to inter island being closed tell May
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4770
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 01, 2021 2:44 am

ASFlyer wrote:
chrisair wrote:
BeachBoy wrote:

Anecdotally, despite their efforts to build goodwill among the people in Hawaii, Iʻve yet to meet someone who has switched from HA to WN for interisland or West Coast flying.


All my friends in Maui moved to WN for inter island and mainland. Granted I don’t have a lot of friends in Maui so my sample size is very limited…and it’s not like they’re flying anywhere these days anyway…


I've seen load factors posted on this forum for WN in Hawaii. If accurate, they're not good at all. Very bad actually. I'd be surprised if there wasn't some cuts coming down the pike. WN is not used to flying money losing routes and adding interisland flights in a market where the entire state is wrapped up in the loyalty program of Hawaiian Airlines and, generally speaking, just loyal to their airline - it was an uphill battle at best. They're doing good on their west coast - Hawaii stuff, that's where they're going to focus I think. I also don't see them jumping into second markets along the west coast. It's a different age - the WN affect isn't what it once was.


Did you all already forget Hawaii was mostly shut down for most of 2020 and didn’t start opening back up fully until late spring? Of course the load load factors posted weren’t good!

Expect much better numbers for June and July. Anecdotally 75% LF above seems low, especially for transpac. It was a very, very busy summer for WN at HNL.
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1908
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 01, 2021 2:55 am

Silver1SWA wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
chrisair wrote:

All my friends in Maui moved to WN for inter island and mainland. Granted I don’t have a lot of friends in Maui so my sample size is very limited…and it’s not like they’re flying anywhere these days anyway…


I've seen load factors posted on this forum for WN in Hawaii. If accurate, they're not good at all. Very bad actually. I'd be surprised if there wasn't some cuts coming down the pike. WN is not used to flying money losing routes and adding interisland flights in a market where the entire state is wrapped up in the loyalty program of Hawaiian Airlines and, generally speaking, just loyal to their airline - it was an uphill battle at best. They're doing good on their west coast - Hawaii stuff, that's where they're going to focus I think. I also don't see them jumping into second markets along the west coast. It's a different age - the WN affect isn't what it once was.


Did you all already forget Hawaii was mostly shut down for most of 2020 and didn’t start opening back up fully until late spring? Of course the load load factors posted weren’t good!

Expect much better numbers for June and July. Anecdotally 75% LF above seems low, especially for transpac. It was a very, very busy summer for WN at HNL.


Mysteriously, the mainland to Hawaii numbers were much better - some were really high. I agree that load factors could have been affected by Covid, but if mainland to Hawaii LF's were good then why are the interisland so miserable?
 
Wneast
Posts: 1067
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 01, 2021 2:57 am

ASFlyer wrote:
Silver1SWA wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:

I've seen load factors posted on this forum for WN in Hawaii. If accurate, they're not good at all. Very bad actually. I'd be surprised if there wasn't some cuts coming down the pike. WN is not used to flying money losing routes and adding interisland flights in a market where the entire state is wrapped up in the loyalty program of Hawaiian Airlines and, generally speaking, just loyal to their airline - it was an uphill battle at best. They're doing good on their west coast - Hawaii stuff, that's where they're going to focus I think. I also don't see them jumping into second markets along the west coast. It's a different age - the WN affect isn't what it once was.


Did you all already forget Hawaii was mostly shut down for most of 2020 and didn’t start opening back up fully until late spring? Of course the load load factors posted weren’t good!

Expect much better numbers for June and July. Anecdotally 75% LF above seems low, especially for transpac. It was a very, very busy summer for WN at HNL.


Mysteriously, the mainland to Hawaii numbers were much better - some were really high. I agree that load factors could have been affected by Covid, but if mainland to Hawaii LF's were good then why are the interisland so miserable?
Because inter island was shut down unless you got another test tell May is why the numbers for inter island are horrible for HA and WN
 
User avatar
barney captain
Posts: 2448
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 01, 2021 3:08 am

ASFlyer wrote:
Silver1SWA wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:

I've seen load factors posted on this forum for WN in Hawaii. If accurate, they're not good at all. Very bad actually. I'd be surprised if there wasn't some cuts coming down the pike. WN is not used to flying money losing routes and adding interisland flights in a market where the entire state is wrapped up in the loyalty program of Hawaiian Airlines and, generally speaking, just loyal to their airline - it was an uphill battle at best. They're doing good on their west coast - Hawaii stuff, that's where they're going to focus I think. I also don't see them jumping into second markets along the west coast. It's a different age - the WN affect isn't what it once was.


Did you all already forget Hawaii was mostly shut down for most of 2020 and didn’t start opening back up fully until late spring? Of course the load load factors posted weren’t good!

Expect much better numbers for June and July. Anecdotally 75% LF above seems low, especially for transpac. It was a very, very busy summer for WN at HNL.


Mysteriously, the mainland to Hawaii numbers were much better - some were really high. I agree that load factors could have been affected by Covid, but if mainland to Hawaii LF's were good then why are the interisland so miserable?



Pre-covid it was very rare to have more than a handful of seats open on inter-island flights. The locals have very little love lost for HA and their pricing "structure" prior to WN entering that market.
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4770
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 01, 2021 3:28 am

ASFlyer wrote:
Silver1SWA wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:

I've seen load factors posted on this forum for WN in Hawaii. If accurate, they're not good at all. Very bad actually. I'd be surprised if there wasn't some cuts coming down the pike. WN is not used to flying money losing routes and adding interisland flights in a market where the entire state is wrapped up in the loyalty program of Hawaiian Airlines and, generally speaking, just loyal to their airline - it was an uphill battle at best. They're doing good on their west coast - Hawaii stuff, that's where they're going to focus I think. I also don't see them jumping into second markets along the west coast. It's a different age - the WN affect isn't what it once was.


Did you all already forget Hawaii was mostly shut down for most of 2020 and didn’t start opening back up fully until late spring? Of course the load load factors posted weren’t good!

Expect much better numbers for June and July. Anecdotally 75% LF above seems low, especially for transpac. It was a very, very busy summer for WN at HNL.


Mysteriously, the mainland to Hawaii numbers were much better - some were really high. I agree that load factors could have been affected by Covid, but if mainland to Hawaii LF's were good then why are the interisland so miserable?


Could have? They were affected.

Interisland travel was also restricted by a travel quarantine.
 
HALOGG
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 4:44 am

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:46 am

PBS Hawaii had a recent townhall with community leaders including Hawaiian CEO Peter Ingraham on what a sustainable tourism in Hawaii would look like.

How Much Tourism Is Too Much, and Who Decides?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5uYSEFr-Ik
 
WN732
Posts: 1048
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Sep 01, 2021 4:18 pm

Silver1SWA wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
Silver1SWA wrote:

Did you all already forget Hawaii was mostly shut down for most of 2020 and didn’t start opening back up fully until late spring? Of course the load load factors posted weren’t good!

Expect much better numbers for June and July. Anecdotally 75% LF above seems low, especially for transpac. It was a very, very busy summer for WN at HNL.


Mysteriously, the mainland to Hawaii numbers were much better - some were really high. I agree that load factors could have been affected by Covid, but if mainland to Hawaii LF's were good then why are the interisland so miserable?


Could have? They were affected.

Interisland travel was also restricted by a travel quarantine.


Only HNL was exempt from the interisland quarantine. And for some islands even a COVID test was not good enough. Since we had to pay for a rapid test prior to our visit, I wasn't going to blow even more money on a Covid test just to see another island. If that restriction was gone, I definitely would have flown interisland. It was already an annoying process just getting there in the first place. It is a stressful process on top of that just praying that your test doesn't come back positive or you don't get results for some reason in the 72 hour window. That alone almost got us to not go at all. On top of that the restrictions at the time were somewhat different on every island. It was just easier to stick with one and go home.
 
jplatts
Posts: 5079
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:59 pm

Here are the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN flights out of Hawaii in June 2021:
HNL-ITO - 12051 passengers, 41300 seats, 29.18% load factor
HNL-KOA - 15006 passengers, 40075 seats, 37.44% load factor
HNL-LAS - 12104 passengers, 16275 seats, 74.37% load factor
HNL-LAX - 8485 passengers, 10500 seats, 80.81% load factor
HNL-LGB - 9840 passengers, 11725 seats, 83.92% load factor
HNL-LIH - 18790 passengers, 40775 seats, 46.08% load factor
HNL-OAK - 24768 passengers, 30625 seats, 80.88% load factor
HNL-OGG - 24902 passengers, 62475 seats, 39.86% load factor
HNL-PHX - 2003 passengers, 2625 seats, 76.30% load factor
HNL-SAN - 15280 passengers, 19250 seats, 79.38% load factor
HNL-SJC - 17514 passengers, 21000 seats, 83.40% load factor
HNL-SMF - 9822 passengers, 10500 seats, 93.54% load factor
KOA-LAX - 645 passengers, 1400 seats, 46.07% load factor
KOA-OAK - 8798 passengers, 10500 seats, 83.79% load factor
KOA-OGG - 3348 passengers, 10325 seats, 32.43% load factor
KOA-SAN - 386 passengers, 1050 seats, 36.76% load factor
KOA-SJC - 8326 passengers, 10500 seats, 79.30% load factor
LAS-OGG - 822 passengers, 2625 seats, 31.31% load factor
LAX-LIH - 590 passengers, 1400 seats, 42.14% load factor
LAX-OGG - 10702 passengers, 25550 seats, 41.89% load factor
LGB-OGG - 7069 passengers, 10500 seats, 67.32% load factor
LIH-OAK - 6479 passengers, 8750 seats, 74.05% load factor
LIH-SAN - 98 passengers, 350 seats, 28.00% load factor
LIH-SJC - 6273 passengers, 8750 seats, 71.69% load factor
OAK-OGG - 15780 passengers, 21000 seats, 75.14% load factor
OGG-PHX - 822 passengers, 1400 seats, 58.71% load factor
OGG-SAN - 3391 passengers, 9975 seats, 33.99% load factor
OGG-SJC - 11835 passengers, 19250 seats, 61.48% load factor
OGG-SMF - 9177 passengers, 10500 seats, 87.40% load factor
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2558
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:27 pm

jplatts wrote:
Here are the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN flights out of Hawaii in June 2021:
HNL-ITO - 12051 passengers, 41300 seats, 29.18% load factor
HNL-KOA - 15006 passengers, 40075 seats, 37.44% load factor
HNL-LAS - 12104 passengers, 16275 seats, 74.37% load factor
HNL-LAX - 8485 passengers, 10500 seats, 80.81% load factor
HNL-LGB - 9840 passengers, 11725 seats, 83.92% load factor
HNL-LIH - 18790 passengers, 40775 seats, 46.08% load factor
HNL-OAK - 24768 passengers, 30625 seats, 80.88% load factor
HNL-OGG - 24902 passengers, 62475 seats, 39.86% load factor
HNL-PHX - 2003 passengers, 2625 seats, 76.30% load factor
HNL-SAN - 15280 passengers, 19250 seats, 79.38% load factor
HNL-SJC - 17514 passengers, 21000 seats, 83.40% load factor
HNL-SMF - 9822 passengers, 10500 seats, 93.54% load factor
KOA-LAX - 645 passengers, 1400 seats, 46.07% load factor
KOA-OAK - 8798 passengers, 10500 seats, 83.79% load factor
KOA-OGG - 3348 passengers, 10325 seats, 32.43% load factor
KOA-SAN - 386 passengers, 1050 seats, 36.76% load factor
KOA-SJC - 8326 passengers, 10500 seats, 79.30% load factor
LAS-OGG - 822 passengers, 2625 seats, 31.31% load factor
LAX-LIH - 590 passengers, 1400 seats, 42.14% load factor
LAX-OGG - 10702 passengers, 25550 seats, 41.89% load factor
LGB-OGG - 7069 passengers, 10500 seats, 67.32% load factor
LIH-OAK - 6479 passengers, 8750 seats, 74.05% load factor
LIH-SAN - 98 passengers, 350 seats, 28.00% load factor
LIH-SJC - 6273 passengers, 8750 seats, 71.69% load factor
OAK-OGG - 15780 passengers, 21000 seats, 75.14% load factor
OGG-PHX - 822 passengers, 1400 seats, 58.71% load factor
OGG-SAN - 3391 passengers, 9975 seats, 33.99% load factor
OGG-SJC - 11835 passengers, 19250 seats, 61.48% load factor
OGG-SMF - 9177 passengers, 10500 seats, 87.40% load factor


Question how come you don’t ever post as a comparison HA,DL,AA,AS or UA numbers in the same market?

Enjoy or Don’t
Flyguy
 
MaxTrimm
Posts: 382
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:43 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:55 am

jplatts wrote:
Here are the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN flights out of Hawaii in June 2021:
HNL-ITO - 12051 passengers, 41300 seats, 29.18% load factor
HNL-KOA - 15006 passengers, 40075 seats, 37.44% load factor
HNL-LAS - 12104 passengers, 16275 seats, 74.37% load factor
HNL-LAX - 8485 passengers, 10500 seats, 80.81% load factor
HNL-LGB - 9840 passengers, 11725 seats, 83.92% load factor
HNL-LIH - 18790 passengers, 40775 seats, 46.08% load factor
HNL-OAK - 24768 passengers, 30625 seats, 80.88% load factor
HNL-OGG - 24902 passengers, 62475 seats, 39.86% load factor
HNL-PHX - 2003 passengers, 2625 seats, 76.30% load factor
HNL-SAN - 15280 passengers, 19250 seats, 79.38% load factor
HNL-SJC - 17514 passengers, 21000 seats, 83.40% load factor
HNL-SMF - 9822 passengers, 10500 seats, 93.54% load factor
KOA-LAX - 645 passengers, 1400 seats, 46.07% load factor
KOA-OAK - 8798 passengers, 10500 seats, 83.79% load factor
KOA-OGG - 3348 passengers, 10325 seats, 32.43% load factor
KOA-SAN - 386 passengers, 1050 seats, 36.76% load factor
KOA-SJC - 8326 passengers, 10500 seats, 79.30% load factor
LAS-OGG - 822 passengers, 2625 seats, 31.31% load factor
LAX-LIH - 590 passengers, 1400 seats, 42.14% load factor
LAX-OGG - 10702 passengers, 25550 seats, 41.89% load factor
LGB-OGG - 7069 passengers, 10500 seats, 67.32% load factor
LIH-OAK - 6479 passengers, 8750 seats, 74.05% load factor
LIH-SAN - 98 passengers, 350 seats, 28.00% load factor
LIH-SJC - 6273 passengers, 8750 seats, 71.69% load factor
OAK-OGG - 15780 passengers, 21000 seats, 75.14% load factor
OGG-PHX - 822 passengers, 1400 seats, 58.71% load factor
OGG-SAN - 3391 passengers, 9975 seats, 33.99% load factor
OGG-SJC - 11835 passengers, 19250 seats, 61.48% load factor
OGG-SMF - 9177 passengers, 10500 seats, 87.40% load factor

These are decent, but not really great. There was so much capacity into Hawaii this summer.
 
Wneast
Posts: 1067
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:08 am

MaxTrimm wrote:
jplatts wrote:
Here are the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN flights out of Hawaii in June 2021:
HNL-ITO - 12051 passengers, 41300 seats, 29.18% load factor
HNL-KOA - 15006 passengers, 40075 seats, 37.44% load factor
HNL-LAS - 12104 passengers, 16275 seats, 74.37% load factor
HNL-LAX - 8485 passengers, 10500 seats, 80.81% load factor
HNL-LGB - 9840 passengers, 11725 seats, 83.92% load factor
HNL-LIH - 18790 passengers, 40775 seats, 46.08% load factor
HNL-OAK - 24768 passengers, 30625 seats, 80.88% load factor
HNL-OGG - 24902 passengers, 62475 seats, 39.86% load factor
HNL-PHX - 2003 passengers, 2625 seats, 76.30% load factor
HNL-SAN - 15280 passengers, 19250 seats, 79.38% load factor
HNL-SJC - 17514 passengers, 21000 seats, 83.40% load factor
HNL-SMF - 9822 passengers, 10500 seats, 93.54% load factor
KOA-LAX - 645 passengers, 1400 seats, 46.07% load factor
KOA-OAK - 8798 passengers, 10500 seats, 83.79% load factor
KOA-OGG - 3348 passengers, 10325 seats, 32.43% load factor
KOA-SAN - 386 passengers, 1050 seats, 36.76% load factor
KOA-SJC - 8326 passengers, 10500 seats, 79.30% load factor
LAS-OGG - 822 passengers, 2625 seats, 31.31% load factor
LAX-LIH - 590 passengers, 1400 seats, 42.14% load factor
LAX-OGG - 10702 passengers, 25550 seats, 41.89% load factor
LGB-OGG - 7069 passengers, 10500 seats, 67.32% load factor
LIH-OAK - 6479 passengers, 8750 seats, 74.05% load factor
LIH-SAN - 98 passengers, 350 seats, 28.00% load factor
LIH-SJC - 6273 passengers, 8750 seats, 71.69% load factor
OAK-OGG - 15780 passengers, 21000 seats, 75.14% load factor
OGG-PHX - 822 passengers, 1400 seats, 58.71% load factor
OGG-SAN - 3391 passengers, 9975 seats, 33.99% load factor
OGG-SJC - 11835 passengers, 19250 seats, 61.48% load factor
OGG-SMF - 9177 passengers, 10500 seats, 87.40% load factor

These are decent, but not really great. There was so much capacity into Hawaii this summer.

I feel like there also so of the new route like LAS,LAX,PHX also look better when they had only been going a couple weeks in June for these numbers and then some routes like the new LIH and KOA routes at 30-40 percent had only been going a few flights starting at the end of the month so I don’t think those routes are a full picture
 
x1234
Posts: 1177
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:50 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:28 pm

HA is set to receive 789's. Any places for network expansion?
 
MO11
Posts: 1909
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:12 pm

x1234 wrote:
HA is set to receive 789's. Any places for network expansion?



First one 12 months from now. A lot depends on COVID still.
 
embraer175e2
Posts: 451
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:47 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:25 pm

When is hawain getting rid of its 717's?
And will the replacer be a jet?
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2558
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:51 pm

embraer175e2 wrote:
When is hawain getting rid of its 717's?
And will the replacer be a jet?

Hawaiian airline has recently been actively looking at the A220-200 ETOPS.
It not only brings lower economical cost for short hop inter island VS their main competitor WN with its 737’s. It’s lower operating costs for western Etops markets gives HA much more fleet flexibility.
I think you will see the 717 retirement in 2023/24.

Flyguy
 
jplatts
Posts: 5079
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:05 pm

Here are the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors of WN flights out of Hawaii in July 2021:
HNL-ITO - 17025 passengers, 42175 seats, 40.37% load factor
HNL-KOA - 19834 passengers, 42875 seats, 46.26% load factor
HNL-LAS - 16907 passengers, 21525 seats, 78.55% load factor
HNL-LAX - 19072 passengers, 21700 seats, 87.89% load factor
HNL-LGB - 17602 passengers, 21700 seats, 81.12% load factor
HNL-LIH - 25594 passengers, 43225 seats, 59.21% load factor
HNL-OAK - 28108 passengers, 32550 seats, 86.35% load factor
HNL-OGG - 32483 passengers, 63875 seats, 50.85% load factor
HNL-PHX - 18196 passengers, 21525 seats, 84.53% load factor
HNL-SAN - 19004 passengers, 21700 seats, 87.58% load factor
HNL-SJC - 18474 passengers, 21700 seats, 85.13% load factor
HNL-SMF - 10015 passengers, 10850 seats, 92.30% load factor

HNL-OGG - 32483 passengers, 63875 seats, 50.85% load factor
KOA-OGG - 4448 passengers, 10850 seats, 41.00% load factor
LAS-OGG - 10344 passengers, 21525 seats, 48.06% load factor
LAX-OGG - 16746 passengers, 32375 seats, 51.73% load factor
LGB-OGG - 7237 passengers, 10850 seats, 66.70% load factor
OAK-OGG - 15608 passengers, 21700 seats, 71.93% load factor
OGG-PHX - 7457 passengers, 10850 seats, 68.73% load factor
OGG-SAN - 8043 passengers, 21700 seats, 37.06% load factor
OGG-SJC - 15218 passengers, 21700 seats, 70.13% load factor
OGG-SMF - 9938 passengers, 10850 seats, 91.59% load factor

KOA-LAX - 8066 passengers, 11025 seats, 73.16% load factor
KOA-OAK - 8373 passengers, 10850 seats, 77.17% load factor
KOA-SAN - 3198 passengers, 5950 seats, 53.75% load factor
KOA-SJC - 8923 passengers, 10850 seats, 82.24% load factor

LAX-LIH - 7578 passengers, 10675 seats, 70.99% load factor
LIH-OAK - 7704 passengers, 10850 seats, 71.00% load factor
LIH-SAN - 2124 passengers, 4900 seats, 43.35% load factor
LIH-SJC - 8455 passengers, 10850 seats, 77.93% load factor
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2558
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:18 pm

jplatts wrote:
Here are the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors of WN flights out of Hawaii in July 2021:
HNL-ITO - 17025 passengers, 42175 seats, 40.37% load factor
HNL-KOA - 19834 passengers, 42875 seats, 46.26% load factor
HNL-LAS - 16907 passengers, 21525 seats, 78.55% load factor
HNL-LAX - 19072 passengers, 21700 seats, 87.89% load factor
HNL-LGB - 17602 passengers, 21700 seats, 81.12% load factor
HNL-LIH - 25594 passengers, 43225 seats, 59.21% load factor
HNL-OAK - 28108 passengers, 32550 seats, 86.35% load factor
HNL-OGG - 32483 passengers, 63875 seats, 50.85% load factor
HNL-PHX - 18196 passengers, 21525 seats, 84.53% load factor
HNL-SAN - 19004 passengers, 21700 seats, 87.58% load factor
HNL-SJC - 18474 passengers, 21700 seats, 85.13% load factor
HNL-SMF - 10015 passengers, 10850 seats, 92.30% load factor

HNL-OGG - 32483 passengers, 63875 seats, 50.85% load factor
KOA-OGG - 4448 passengers, 10850 seats, 41.00% load factor
LAS-OGG - 10344 passengers, 21525 seats, 48.06% load factor
LAX-OGG - 16746 passengers, 32375 seats, 51.73% load factor
LGB-OGG - 7237 passengers, 10850 seats, 66.70% load factor
OAK-OGG - 15608 passengers, 21700 seats, 71.93% load factor
OGG-PHX - 7457 passengers, 10850 seats, 68.73% load factor
OGG-SAN - 8043 passengers, 21700 seats, 37.06% load factor
OGG-SJC - 15218 passengers, 21700 seats, 70.13% load factor
OGG-SMF - 9938 passengers, 10850 seats, 91.59% load factor

KOA-LAX - 8066 passengers, 11025 seats, 73.16% load factor
KOA-OAK - 8373 passengers, 10850 seats, 77.17% load factor
KOA-SAN - 3198 passengers, 5950 seats, 53.75% load factor
KOA-SJC - 8923 passengers, 10850 seats, 82.24% load factor

LAX-LIH - 7578 passengers, 10675 seats, 70.99% load factor
LIH-OAK - 7704 passengers, 10850 seats, 71.00% load factor
LIH-SAN - 2124 passengers, 4900 seats, 43.35% load factor
LIH-SJC - 8455 passengers, 10850 seats, 77.93% load factor


Thanks for these.
Once more people get vaccinated and Covid restrictions loosen back up the Hawaii Islands tourist traffic is predicted to triple by Summer 2022.

If WN can get it’s staffing in order I’d expect additional flights announced on December 8.
Other wise they will end up playing catch up to everyone else.
Delta just announced new Hawaii flying.
I’m sure more is coming.

Enjoy or Don’t
Flyguy
 
Wneast
Posts: 1067
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:00 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
jplatts wrote:
Here are the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors of WN flights out of Hawaii in July 2021:
HNL-ITO - 17025 passengers, 42175 seats, 40.37% load factor
HNL-KOA - 19834 passengers, 42875 seats, 46.26% load factor
HNL-LAS - 16907 passengers, 21525 seats, 78.55% load factor
HNL-LAX - 19072 passengers, 21700 seats, 87.89% load factor
HNL-LGB - 17602 passengers, 21700 seats, 81.12% load factor
HNL-LIH - 25594 passengers, 43225 seats, 59.21% load factor
HNL-OAK - 28108 passengers, 32550 seats, 86.35% load factor
HNL-OGG - 32483 passengers, 63875 seats, 50.85% load factor
HNL-PHX - 18196 passengers, 21525 seats, 84.53% load factor
HNL-SAN - 19004 passengers, 21700 seats, 87.58% load factor
HNL-SJC - 18474 passengers, 21700 seats, 85.13% load factor
HNL-SMF - 10015 passengers, 10850 seats, 92.30% load factor

HNL-OGG - 32483 passengers, 63875 seats, 50.85% load factor
KOA-OGG - 4448 passengers, 10850 seats, 41.00% load factor
LAS-OGG - 10344 passengers, 21525 seats, 48.06% load factor
LAX-OGG - 16746 passengers, 32375 seats, 51.73% load factor
LGB-OGG - 7237 passengers, 10850 seats, 66.70% load factor
OAK-OGG - 15608 passengers, 21700 seats, 71.93% load factor
OGG-PHX - 7457 passengers, 10850 seats, 68.73% load factor
OGG-SAN - 8043 passengers, 21700 seats, 37.06% load factor
OGG-SJC - 15218 passengers, 21700 seats, 70.13% load factor
OGG-SMF - 9938 passengers, 10850 seats, 91.59% load factor

KOA-LAX - 8066 passengers, 11025 seats, 73.16% load factor
KOA-OAK - 8373 passengers, 10850 seats, 77.17% load factor
KOA-SAN - 3198 passengers, 5950 seats, 53.75% load factor
KOA-SJC - 8923 passengers, 10850 seats, 82.24% load factor

LAX-LIH - 7578 passengers, 10675 seats, 70.99% load factor
LIH-OAK - 7704 passengers, 10850 seats, 71.00% load factor
LIH-SAN - 2124 passengers, 4900 seats, 43.35% load factor
LIH-SJC - 8455 passengers, 10850 seats, 77.93% load factor


Thanks for these.
Once more people get vaccinated and Covid restrictions loosen back up the Hawaii Islands tourist traffic is predicted to triple by Summer 2022.

If WN can get it’s staffing in order I’d expect additional flights announced on December 8.
Other wise they will end up playing catch up to everyone else.
Delta just announced new Hawaii flying.
I’m sure more is coming.

Enjoy or Don’t
Flyguy

What additional hawaii flying you think we will see ?
 
obelau24
Posts: 101
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:00 am

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:13 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
jplatts wrote:
Delta just announced new Hawaii flying.
I’m sure more is coming.

Enjoy or Don’t
Flyguy


What new flying? I haven’t heard anything new recently.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2558
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:18 am

obelau24 wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
jplatts wrote:
Delta just announced new Hawaii flying.
I’m sure more is coming.

Enjoy or Don’t
Flyguy


What new flying? I haven’t heard anything new recently.

Delta just Announced DTW-HNL.
Added more Hawaii seat capacity into its other nonstop markets from Hawaii for summer 2022.

Enjoy or Don’t
Flyguy
 
Wneast
Posts: 1067
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:24 am

Wnflyguy what markets or flights you think WN could be adding on December 8th if they figure themselves out ? ONT and PDX or just more frequency ?

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