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SQ22
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Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:53 am

Welcome to the Hawaiian Aviation Thread 2021. Please continue to post your news and your discussion here.

Link to previous thread:

Hawaii Airports and Aviation Thread - 2020
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:33 pm

ch-aviation notes that Mokulele will take over Ohana's unsubsidized EAS service to Molokai and Lanai. Notably, they state they will use twin engine aircraft in accordance with EAS requirements, though Mokulele only operates single engine Caravans (and possibly still the PC-12?). I did see on Wikipedia that their parent company, Southern Airways Express, has a couple of Piper Chieftains, perhaps they'll be sending one or both of them to Hawaii?

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... m-hawaiian
 
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Rajahdhani
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:55 am

...another perspective on the departure of Ohana from Molokai and Lanai:

https://themolokaidispatch.com/ohana-by-hawaiian-halts-flights/
“Our low levels of inter-island flying, caused by depressed demand across our network due to travel restrictions, triggered a provision in our labor contracts that prevents us from offering this third-party passenger and all-cargo service,” wrote Executive Vice President and COO Jon Snook in the letter that employees received last Wednesday, Jan. 6.


..and a broader discussion of the local market, Mr. Snook continued:

wrote Snook. “It is unclear when demand will recover sufficiently to allow us to return to Molokai, Lanai, or Kapalua in West Maui, or to reinstate all-cargo Neighbor Island service. I want to thank everyone who worked in good faith to navigate this unexpected and difficult challenge and send a special mahalo to the employees who have supported the operation to this point.”https://themolokaidispatch.com/ohana-by-hawaiian-halts-flights/


Admittedly, I was a fan of the Ohana concept, brand and operation - however, offer this to help anyone (and in future) explain why this brand is not working, at the moment. Rarely would we get this level of insight, and a discussion with quotes from the COO. That said, here's to hoping that we see a recovery, and/or return of Ohana (and better, stronger, and more capable, in future).
 
MO11
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:23 am

hawaiian717 wrote:
ch-aviation notes that Mokulele will take over Ohana's unsubsidized EAS service to Molokai and Lanai. Notably, they state they will use twin engine aircraft in accordance with EAS requirements, though Mokulele only operates single engine Caravans (and possibly still the PC-12?). I did see on Wikipedia that their parent company, Southern Airways Express, has a couple of Piper Chieftains, perhaps they'll be sending one or both of them to Hawaii?

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... m-hawaiian



The Chieftains have been removed from the certificate. Southern Airways has been bidding stateside EAS routes with King Air 200s (which it doesn't yet have), but has yet to be successful.
 
Wneast
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 25, 2021 6:10 am

What flights could southwest and Alaska add to the islands this year ?
 
KMCOFlyer
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat May 01, 2021 2:16 am

Will WN move out of the ground level G Gates once the Mauka concourse opens later this year? I’d assume Hawaiian will move most of their operations into the new concourse once it opens by the end of the year and will probably vacate the B and C Gates for non-INTL flights. The B Gates would be a perfect fit for WN and would allow their inter-island passengers to no longer have to go through any Agricultural checks.
 
Wneast
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat May 01, 2021 2:23 am

KMCOFlyer wrote:
Will WN move out of the ground level G Gates once the Mauka concourse opens later this year? I’d assume Hawaiian will move most of their operations into the new concourse once it opens by the end of the year and will probably vacate the B and C Gates for non-INTL flights. The B Gates would be a perfect fit for WN and would allow their inter-island passengers to no longer have to go through any Agricultural checks.

It should be interesting what they do especially with there big expansion on the Horizon for them in HNL they must be doing something to find room for all the new flights there going to add in the expansion i heave heard but I’m not for sure that they at least right now are going to get to use two of the jetways ?
 
KMCOFlyer
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat May 01, 2021 2:33 am

Wneast wrote:
KMCOFlyer wrote:
Will WN move out of the ground level G Gates once the Mauka concourse opens later this year? I’d assume Hawaiian will move most of their operations into the new concourse once it opens by the end of the year and will probably vacate the B and C Gates for non-INTL flights. The B Gates would be a perfect fit for WN and would allow their inter-island passengers to no longer have to go through any Agricultural checks.

It should be interesting what they do especially with there big expansion on the Horizon for them in HNL they must be doing something to find room for all the new flights there going to add in the expansion i heave heard but I’m not for sure that they at least right now are going to get to use two of the jetways ?


So perhaps they are staying on G then but will get access to some of the upstairs jetway Gates? B seems like a perfect fit for them as there are 5 Gates (vs the 4 they have now) and it’s right in the middle between the Inter-Island terminal and the overseas terminal so local inter-island customers wouldn’t need to go through agriculture checkpoints. Didn’t Aloha Airlines use the B Gates before Hawaiian?
 
Wneast
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat May 01, 2021 3:02 am

KMCOFlyer wrote:
Wneast wrote:
KMCOFlyer wrote:
Will WN move out of the ground level G Gates once the Mauka concourse opens later this year? I’d assume Hawaiian will move most of their operations into the new concourse once it opens by the end of the year and will probably vacate the B and C Gates for non-INTL flights. The B Gates would be a perfect fit for WN and would allow their inter-island passengers to no longer have to go through any Agricultural checks.

It should be interesting what they do especially with there big expansion on the Horizon for them in HNL they must be doing something to find room for all the new flights there going to add in the expansion i heave heard but I’m not for sure that they at least right now are going to get to use two of the jetways ?


So perhaps they are staying on G then but will get access to some of the upstairs jetway Gates? B seems like a perfect fit for them as there are 5 Gates (vs the 4 they have now) and it’s right in the middle between the Inter-Island terminal and the overseas terminal so local inter-island customers wouldn’t need to go through agriculture checkpoints. Didn’t Aloha Airlines use the B Gates before Hawaiian?

I’m not sure where Aloha airlines used to use but I think at least what I heard was that they wanted to have 6–7 gates total so im not sure there is enough gates in B to accommodate their needs is there ?
 
KFTG
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat May 01, 2021 3:14 am

Can someone please explain to me why a fully vaccinated person would still need a COVID test to go to Hawaii? And in the case of Maui, you are required to submit to contract tracing with the local government. Ridiculous.
 
KMCOFlyer
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat May 01, 2021 3:18 am

Wneast wrote:
KMCOFlyer wrote:
Wneast wrote:
It should be interesting what they do especially with there big expansion on the Horizon for them in HNL they must be doing something to find room for all the new flights there going to add in the expansion i heave heard but I’m not for sure that they at least right now are going to get to use two of the jetways ?


So perhaps they are staying on G then but will get access to some of the upstairs jetway Gates? B seems like a perfect fit for them as there are 5 Gates (vs the 4 they have now) and it’s right in the middle between the Inter-Island terminal and the overseas terminal so local inter-island customers wouldn’t need to go through agriculture checkpoints. Didn’t Aloha Airlines use the B Gates before Hawaiian?

I’m not sure where Aloha airlines used to use but I think at least what I heard was that they wanted to have 6–7 gates total so im not sure there is enough gates in B to accommodate their needs is there ?


Perhaps they could spill over into some of the high A Gates (Like A20 & A19) but I’m not sure if Hawaiian would be too found of that. The Mauka concourse will have a total of 12 new gates but it’s also designed to handle widebody aircrafts in which case, an adjacent gate must be blocked off. I’m not so sure where else WN could go? I doubt the airport authority would want to put WN at widebody gates in G and there’s no room in E with AS, AA, and DL usually taking up most of the gates.
 
Wneast
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat May 01, 2021 3:24 am

KMCOFlyer wrote:
Wneast wrote:
KMCOFlyer wrote:

So perhaps they are staying on G then but will get access to some of the upstairs jetway Gates? B seems like a perfect fit for them as there are 5 Gates (vs the 4 they have now) and it’s right in the middle between the Inter-Island terminal and the overseas terminal so local inter-island customers wouldn’t need to go through agriculture checkpoints. Didn’t Aloha Airlines use the B Gates before Hawaiian?

I’m not sure where Aloha airlines used to use but I think at least what I heard was that they wanted to have 6–7 gates total so im not sure there is enough gates in B to accommodate their needs is there ?


Perhaps they could spill over into some of the high A Gates (Like A20 & A19) but I’m not sure if Hawaiian would be too found of that. The Mauka concourse will have a total of 12 new gates but it’s also designed to handle widebody aircrafts in which case, an adjacent gate must be blocked off. I’m not so sure where else WN could go? I doubt the airport authority would want to put WN at widebody gates in G and there’s no room in E with AS, AA, and DL usually taking up most of the gates.

Well I would assume they find somewhere for there needs if there going to keep adding flights there and having a meaningful Schedule and I mean maybe it’s just temporary but I’m pretty sure from what I heard they will use two G Gates at least for now so I could see them giving those gates to them permanently are the five gates in B all narrow body they could move airlines around too ?
 
KMCOFlyer
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat May 01, 2021 3:32 am

Wneast wrote:
KMCOFlyer wrote:
Wneast wrote:
I’m not sure where Aloha airlines used to use but I think at least what I heard was that they wanted to have 6–7 gates total so im not sure there is enough gates in B to accommodate their needs is there ?


Perhaps they could spill over into some of the high A Gates (Like A20 & A19) but I’m not sure if Hawaiian would be too found of that. The Mauka concourse will have a total of 12 new gates but it’s also designed to handle widebody aircrafts in which case, an adjacent gate must be blocked off. I’m not so sure where else WN could go? I doubt the airport authority would want to put WN at widebody gates in G and there’s no room in E with AS, AA, and DL usually taking up most of the gates.

Well I would assume they find somewhere for there needs if there going to keep adding flights there and having a meaningful Schedule and I mean maybe it’s just temporary but I’m pretty sure from what I heard they will use two G Gates at least for now so I could see them giving those gates to them permanently are the five gates in B all narrow body they could move airlines around too ?


Yes the B gates are all narrowbody only gates so it would be difficult to move anyone other than WN or HA into those gates. I guess using the 2 widebody jetway gates in G shouldn’t be an issue with limited Canada and Asia INTL flights right now, but if these come back next year then I could see it becoming an issue
 
Wneast
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat May 01, 2021 3:36 am

KMCOFlyer wrote:
Wneast wrote:
KMCOFlyer wrote:

Perhaps they could spill over into some of the high A Gates (Like A20 & A19) but I’m not sure if Hawaiian would be too found of that. The Mauka concourse will have a total of 12 new gates but it’s also designed to handle widebody aircrafts in which case, an adjacent gate must be blocked off. I’m not so sure where else WN could go? I doubt the airport authority would want to put WN at widebody gates in G and there’s no room in E with AS, AA, and DL usually taking up most of the gates.

Well I would assume they find somewhere for there needs if there going to keep adding flights there and having a meaningful Schedule and I mean maybe it’s just temporary but I’m pretty sure from what I heard they will use two G Gates at least for now so I could see them giving those gates to them permanently are the five gates in B all narrow body they could move airlines around too ?


Yes the B gates are all narrowbody only gates so it would be difficult to move anyone other than WN or HA into those gates. I guess using the 2 widebody jetway gates in G shouldn’t be an issue with limited Canada and Asia INTL flights right now, but if these come back next year then I could see it becoming an issue
hmm I wonder how this will play out unless they forced someone like Alaska to move to the new concourse is it all going to Hawaiian ?
 
KMCOFlyer
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat May 01, 2021 3:47 am

Wneast wrote:
KMCOFlyer wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Well I would assume they find somewhere for there needs if there going to keep adding flights there and having a meaningful Schedule and I mean maybe it’s just temporary but I’m pretty sure from what I heard they will use two G Gates at least for now so I could see them giving those gates to them permanently are the five gates in B all narrow body they could move airlines around too ?


Yes the B gates are all narrowbody only gates so it would be difficult to move anyone other than WN or HA into those gates. I guess using the 2 widebody jetway gates in G shouldn’t be an issue with limited Canada and Asia INTL flights right now, but if these come back next year then I could see it becoming an issue
hmm I wonder how this will play out unless they forced someone like Alaska to move to the new concourse is it all going to Hawaiian ?


All of the renderings show that it looks like it’s going to be used by only HA but I don’t believe they are going to get all the new added capacity and will vacate some of their current gates they use in either B, C, or D.
 
Wneast
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat May 01, 2021 3:56 am

KMCOFlyer wrote:
Wneast wrote:
KMCOFlyer wrote:

Yes the B gates are all narrowbody only gates so it would be difficult to move anyone other than WN or HA into those gates. I guess using the 2 widebody jetway gates in G shouldn’t be an issue with limited Canada and Asia INTL flights right now, but if these come back next year then I could see it becoming an issue
hmm I wonder how this will play out unless they forced someone like Alaska to move to the new concourse is it all going to Hawaiian ?


All of the renderings show that it looks like it’s going to be used by only HA but I don’t believe they are going to get all the new added capacity and will vacate some of their current gates they use in either B, C, or D.

WN will figure out something to get the gates the want Idk what it will be but it will mostly likely happen, there’s no better time then now to get what they want at HNL
 
Silver1SWA
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat May 01, 2021 5:05 am

KMCOFlyer wrote:
Wneast wrote:
KMCOFlyer wrote:

Yes the B gates are all narrowbody only gates so it would be difficult to move anyone other than WN or HA into those gates. I guess using the 2 widebody jetway gates in G shouldn’t be an issue with limited Canada and Asia INTL flights right now, but if these come back next year then I could see it becoming an issue
hmm I wonder how this will play out unless they forced someone like Alaska to move to the new concourse is it all going to Hawaiian ?


All of the renderings show that it looks like it’s going to be used by only HA but I don’t believe they are going to get all the new added capacity and will vacate some of their current gates they use in either B, C, or D.


Let’s just say the politics are a bit um...complicated.

Also keep in mind that while some airlines generally get to keep to their own areas the airport is technically common-use so many go only where there’s room on a given day.
 
BeachBoy
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat May 01, 2021 5:31 am

KFTG wrote:
Can someone please explain to me why a fully vaccinated person would still need a COVID test to go to Hawaii? And in the case of Maui, you are required to submit to contract tracing with the local government. Ridiculous.


Because vaccines are not 100% effective.
 
alohashirts
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat May 01, 2021 5:47 am

KFTG wrote:
Can someone please explain to me why a fully vaccinated person would still need a COVID test to go to Hawaii? And in the case of Maui, you are required to submit to contract tracing with the local government. Ridiculous.

And neither is a flu shot guaranteed to be effective but yet we didn’t see the nation and in this case Hawaii have travel restrictions even with a flu vaccine. I agree. It is 100% ridiculous. I feel bad for all the Hawaiian residents and airline employees affected by these insane requirements. Hope everyone can recover financially, emotionally, etc from the overreaction.
 
DaCubbyBearBar
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat May 01, 2021 6:23 am

Wneast wrote:
What flights could southwest and Alaska add to the islands this year ?

Any route that they currently don’t fly. AS can add service to the islands from GEG, BLI, LAS, PHX, ONT, BUR, SNA, FAT, and DEN, to name a couple. WN can add service from GEG, SEA, PDX, LAX, ONT, BUR, SNA, LAS, PHX, SLC, SFO, and DEN, to name some.
 
Silver1SWA
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat May 01, 2021 6:34 am

KFTG wrote:
Can someone please explain to me why a fully vaccinated person would still need a COVID test to go to Hawaii? And in the case of Maui, you are required to submit to contract tracing with the local government. Ridiculous.


Because they don’t have an official program in place yet. They said interisland would start first, which begins May 15 and expect a month or so later (hopefully) for trans-pac.
 
KMCOFlyer
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat May 01, 2021 6:54 am

Silver1SWA wrote:
KFTG wrote:
Can someone please explain to me why a fully vaccinated person would still need a COVID test to go to Hawaii? And in the case of Maui, you are required to submit to contract tracing with the local government. Ridiculous.


Because they don’t have an official program in place yet. They said interisland would start first, which begins May 15 and expect a month or so later (hopefully) for trans-pac.


The inter-island program actually starts May 11th.
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat May 01, 2021 3:11 pm

WN 4 G Gates were always going to be temporary. WN saw the opportunity when Island Air closed down to grab its own dedicated gates. Once Hawaiian moves into its new terminal.
HNL airport has plans to rebuild and expand the Diamond Head concourse it's all on public record.
WN future expansion is coming this summer once the MAX8 receives ETOPS certification.
It has been said from different sources WN has secured other gates times throughout the day to increase its Mainland flights.
HNL staff have been trained on how to us the Jetway gates over the last few months.
WN is finally moving to a new it Maintenix tracking system which will give WN more flexibility to increase Hawaii flying vs wrapped everything before the daily 03:00 Herd/ central time system reboot.

Flyguy
 
KMCOFlyer
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat May 01, 2021 3:38 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
WN 4 G Gates were always going to be temporary. WN saw the opportunity when Island Air closed down to grab its own dedicated gates. Once Hawaiian moves into its new terminal.
HNL airport has plans to rebuild and expand the Diamond Head concourse it's all on public record.
WN future expansion is coming this summer once the MAX8 receives ETOPS certification.
It has been said from different sources WN has secured other gates times throughout the day to increase its Mainland flights.
HNL staff have been trained on how to us the Jetway gates over the last few months.
WN is finally moving to a new it Maintenix tracking system which will give WN more flexibility to increase Hawaii flying vs wrapped everything before the daily 03:00 Herd/ central time system reboot.

Flyguy


Will the other gates they get be jetway gates in G that UA typically use or will they be elsewhere?
 
Silver1SWA
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat May 01, 2021 5:09 pm

KMCOFlyer wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
WN 4 G Gates were always going to be temporary. WN saw the opportunity when Island Air closed down to grab its own dedicated gates. Once Hawaiian moves into its new terminal.
HNL airport has plans to rebuild and expand the Diamond Head concourse it's all on public record.
WN future expansion is coming this summer once the MAX8 receives ETOPS certification.
It has been said from different sources WN has secured other gates times throughout the day to increase its Mainland flights.
HNL staff have been trained on how to us the Jetway gates over the last few months.
WN is finally moving to a new it Maintenix tracking system which will give WN more flexibility to increase Hawaii flying vs wrapped everything before the daily 03:00 Herd/ central time system reboot.

Flyguy


Will the other gates they get be jetway gates in G that UA typically use or will they be elsewhere?


WN already uses F1, G1 and G5 from time to time. But as far as scheduled and long term gate/terminal use that hasn’t been determined yet, at least not publicly.
 
KMCOFlyer
Posts: 324
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:32 am

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat May 01, 2021 7:29 pm

Silver1SWA wrote:
KMCOFlyer wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
WN 4 G Gates were always going to be temporary. WN saw the opportunity when Island Air closed down to grab its own dedicated gates. Once Hawaiian moves into its new terminal.
HNL airport has plans to rebuild and expand the Diamond Head concourse it's all on public record.
WN future expansion is coming this summer once the MAX8 receives ETOPS certification.
It has been said from different sources WN has secured other gates times throughout the day to increase its Mainland flights.
HNL staff have been trained on how to us the Jetway gates over the last few months.
WN is finally moving to a new it Maintenix tracking system which will give WN more flexibility to increase Hawaii flying vs wrapped everything before the daily 03:00 Herd/ central time system reboot.

Flyguy


Will the other gates they get be jetway gates in G that UA typically use or will they be elsewhere?


WN already uses F1, G1 and G5 from time to time. But as far as scheduled and long term gate/terminal use that hasn’t been determined yet, at least not publicly.


Interesting I never knew they used the other G Gates or even F. Hopefully they eventually get some gates on the inter-island side of the airport so inter-island pax don’t have to go through the seperate Agricultural checkpoint even though it’s only supposed to be for mainland/International travelers.
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu May 13, 2021 7:20 am

Southern Airways will be bringing the Beechcraft 1900D to Hawaii this fall to complement Mokulele’s existing Caravan service. https://themolokaidispatch.com/19-perso ... this-fall/
 
T prop
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu May 13, 2021 10:35 am

Lol, and I thought the Mighty Beech only flew boxes around these days..
 
Wneast
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:44 am

Does anyone have any predictions on what might happen to HA if WN HI aspirations continue which they are? Are they going to be pushed off any routes? or will they survive the bigger invasion WN is planning that should have been executed had they not had all their problems
 
rbavfan
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:15 am

KFTG wrote:
Can someone please explain to me why a fully vaccinated person would still need a COVID test to go to Hawaii? And in the case of Maui, you are required to submit to contract tracing with the local government. Ridiculous.


You could go to Alaska that also has a large native population. Oh wait, they are doing the same thing. It's call being on the safe side.
 
KFTG
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:05 pm

rbavfan wrote:
Oh wait, they are doing the same thing.

Are you interested at all in replying with something factual?
Alaska is not "doing the same thing" as Hawaii.
And they haven't been for some time.
https://covid19.alaska.gov/travelers/
 
sxf24
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:38 pm

Wneast wrote:
Does anyone have any predictions on what might happen to HA if WN HI aspirations continue which they are? Are they going to be pushed off any routes? or will they survive the bigger invasion WN is planning that should have been executed had they not had all their problems


I don’t think WN will ever have a neighbor island schedule that rivals HA’s. They are a competitor on mainland service, but the market is really large and there are other large competitors that will feel pressure as well.
 
rbavfan
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Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 02, 2021 5:58 am

alohashirts wrote:
KFTG wrote:
Can someone please explain to me why a fully vaccinated person would still need a COVID test to go to Hawaii? And in the case of Maui, you are required to submit to contract tracing with the local government. Ridiculous.

And neither is a flu shot guaranteed to be effective but yet we didn’t see the nation and in this case Hawaii have travel restrictions even with a flu vaccine. I agree. It is 100% ridiculous. I feel bad for all the Hawaiian residents and airline employees affected by these insane requirements. Hope everyone can recover financially, emotionally, etc from the overreaction.


The Flu has never killed around 300,000 people in 12 months! It is not the same.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3898
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:01 am

DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
Wneast wrote:
What flights could southwest and Alaska add to the islands this year ?

Any route that they currently don’t fly. AS can add service to the islands from GEG, BLI, LAS, PHX, ONT, BUR, SNA, FAT, and DEN, to name a couple. WN can add service from GEG, SEA, PDX, LAX, ONT, BUR, SNA, LAS, PHX, SLC, SFO, and DEN, to name some.


Does Burbank have the runway needed for a BUR-HNL non stop?
 
Wneast
Posts: 1066
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:05 am

rbavfan wrote:
DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
Wneast wrote:
What flights could southwest and Alaska add to the islands this year ?

Any route that they currently don’t fly. AS can add service to the islands from GEG, BLI, LAS, PHX, ONT, BUR, SNA, FAT, and DEN, to name a couple. WN can add service from GEG, SEA, PDX, LAX, ONT, BUR, SNA, LAS, PHX, SLC, SFO, and DEN, to name some.


Does Burbank have the runway needed for a BUR-HNL non stop?

I think it can I’m just not sure if would have any reduction of passengers or not
 
nine4nine
Posts: 833
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:44 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:53 pm

rbavfan wrote:
DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
Wneast wrote:
What flights could southwest and Alaska add to the islands this year ?

Any route that they currently don’t fly. AS can add service to the islands from GEG, BLI, LAS, PHX, ONT, BUR, SNA, FAT, and DEN, to name a couple. WN can add service from GEG, SEA, PDX, LAX, ONT, BUR, SNA, LAS, PHX, SLC, SFO, and DEN, to name some.


Does Burbank have the runway needed for a BUR-HNL non stop?



Yes, AQ (Aloha) ran both HNL-BUR, OGG-BUR with a 73G
 
DaCubbyBearBar
Posts: 394
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:40 am

nine4nine wrote:
rbavfan wrote:
DaCubbyBearBar wrote:
Any route that they currently don’t fly. AS can add service to the islands from GEG, BLI, LAS, PHX, ONT, BUR, SNA, FAT, and DEN, to name a couple. WN can add service from GEG, SEA, PDX, LAX, ONT, BUR, SNA, LAS, PHX, SLC, SFO, and DEN, to name some.


Does Burbank have the runway needed for a BUR-HNL non stop?



Yes, AQ (Aloha) ran both HNL-BUR, OGG-BUR with a 73G

If AQ did it, then I would assume it is viable for WN. Especially, with the MAX7. IF, and I mean IF, WN was to do those 2 routes, there is a definite possibility that SNA-HNL/OGG will come along also. It could lead to an INSANE amount of service from California to Hawai’i, nonstop. SAN LAX BUR ONT SNA OAK SMF SJC all seeing nonstops on a daily basis is just AMAZING, just to ponder that this isn’t out of the realm of possibility.
 
jplatts
Posts: 5070
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 18, 2021 2:36 am

Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN flights out of Hawaii in April 2021:
HNL-ITO - 6030 passengers, 40600 seats, 14.85% load factor
HNL-KOA - 8358 passengers, 41825 seats, 19.98% load factor
HNL-LGB - 6570 passengers, 10325 seats, 63.63% load factor
HNL-LIH - 12537 passengers, 41825 seats, 29.97% load factor
HNL-OAK - 18025 passengers, 21000 seats, 85.83% load factor
HNL-OGG - 13005 passengers, 60375 seats, 21.54% load factor
HNL-SAN - 8667 passengers, 10500 seats, 82.54% load factor
HNL-SJC - 16530 passengers, 21000 seats, 78.71% load factor
HNL-SMF - 8719 passengers, 10500 seats, 83.04% load factor
KOA-OAK - 8410 passengers, 10500 seats, 80.10% load factor
KOA-OGG - 2802 passengers, 10675 seats, 26.25% load factor
KOA-SJC - 6266 passengers, 10500 seats, 59.68% load factor
LGB-OGG - 7402 passengers, 10500 seats, 70.50% load factor
OAK-OGG - 17344 passengers, 21000 seats, 82.59% load factor
OGG-SJC - 7212 passengers, 10500 seats, 68.69% load factor
OGG-SMF - 8558 passengers, 10500 seats, 81.50% load factor

Most of the WN Hawaii to California nonstop routes had significantly better load factors than the WN interisland nonstop routes in April 2021.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2558
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 18, 2021 1:38 pm

jplatts wrote:
Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN flights out of Hawaii in April 2021:
HNL-ITO - 6030 passengers, 40600 seats, 14.85% load factor
HNL-KOA - 8358 passengers, 41825 seats, 19.98% load factor
HNL-LGB - 6570 passengers, 10325 seats, 63.63% load factor
HNL-LIH - 12537 passengers, 41825 seats, 29.97% load factor
HNL-OAK - 18025 passengers, 21000 seats, 85.83% load factor
HNL-OGG - 13005 passengers, 60375 seats, 21.54% load factor
HNL-SAN - 8667 passengers, 10500 seats, 82.54% load factor
HNL-SJC - 16530 passengers, 21000 seats, 78.71% load factor
HNL-SMF - 8719 passengers, 10500 seats, 83.04% load factor
KOA-OAK - 8410 passengers, 10500 seats, 80.10% load factor
KOA-OGG - 2802 passengers, 10675 seats, 26.25% load factor
KOA-SJC - 6266 passengers, 10500 seats, 59.68% load factor
LGB-OGG - 7402 passengers, 10500 seats, 70.50% load factor
OAK-OGG - 17344 passengers, 21000 seats, 82.59% load factor
OGG-SJC - 7212 passengers, 10500 seats, 68.69% load factor
OGG-SMF - 8558 passengers, 10500 seats, 81.50% load factor

Most of the WN Hawaii to California nonstop routes had significantly better load factors than the WN interisland nonstop routes in April 2021.


Covid restrictions have a huge impact on these flight loads.
To be fare maybe you could post HA,AS,DL,AA and UA numbers for April 2021.

Thanks
Flyguy
 
x1234
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 18, 2021 3:34 pm

I've always wondered why HA doesn't serve GUM. The islanders are sick of the UA monopoly. Surely if they serve AKL, SYD, ICN, HND they can serve GUM?
 
jplatts
Posts: 5070
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:31 pm

x1234 wrote:
I've always wondered why HA doesn't serve GUM. The islanders are sick of the UA monopoly. Surely if they serve AKL, SYD, ICN, HND they can serve GUM?


WN will likely have planes that will be able to reach GUM, DAL, HOU, and MCI nonstop from Hawaii in the next 10-20 years with
(a) narrowbody planes becoming more fuel efficient with each generation,
(b) the published range of the 737 MAX 7 being 4,430 miles,
(c) GUM, DAL, HOU, and MCI all located within a 4,000 mile radius (by great circle distance) of HNL, and
(d) the 737 MAX 7's successor likely having more range than the 737 MAX 7.

HA could also order some A321XLR planes that would likely have enough range to reach GUM nonstop from HNL, as the A321XLR would likely have enough range to reach GUM nonstop from HNL. There are also some other markets that HA could expand to in the contiguous U.S., Canada, Mexico, Japan, and Oceania if HA acquires some A321XLR planes.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 4576
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 18, 2021 5:29 pm

jplatts wrote:
x1234 wrote:
I've always wondered why HA doesn't serve GUM. The islanders are sick of the UA monopoly. Surely if they serve AKL, SYD, ICN, HND they can serve GUM?


WN will likely have planes that will be able to reach GUM, DAL, HOU, and MCI nonstop from Hawaii in the next 10-20 years with
(a) narrowbody planes becoming more fuel efficient with each generation,
(b) the published range of the 737 MAX 7 being 4,430 miles,
(c) GUM, DAL, HOU, and MCI all located within a 4,000 mile radius (by great circle distance) of HNL, and
(d) the 737 MAX 7's successor likely having more range than the 737 MAX 7.

HA could also order some A321XLR planes that would likely have enough range to reach GUM nonstop from HNL, as the A321XLR would likely have enough range to reach GUM nonstop from HNL. There are also some other markets that HA could expand to in the contiguous U.S., Canada, Mexico, Japan, and Oceania if HA acquires some A321XLR planes.


The MAX7 isn’t reaching Houston/Dallas/KC from Hawaii.
 
Planeboy17
Posts: 571
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:18 am

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 18, 2021 5:49 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
x1234 wrote:
I've always wondered why HA doesn't serve GUM. The islanders are sick of the UA monopoly. Surely if they serve AKL, SYD, ICN, HND they can serve GUM?


WN will likely have planes that will be able to reach GUM, DAL, HOU, and MCI nonstop from Hawaii in the next 10-20 years with
(a) narrowbody planes becoming more fuel efficient with each generation,
(b) the published range of the 737 MAX 7 being 4,430 miles,
(c) GUM, DAL, HOU, and MCI all located within a 4,000 mile radius (by great circle distance) of HNL, and
(d) the 737 MAX 7's successor likely having more range than the 737 MAX 7.

HA could also order some A321XLR planes that would likely have enough range to reach GUM nonstop from HNL, as the A321XLR would likely have enough range to reach GUM nonstop from HNL. There are also some other markets that HA could expand to in the contiguous U.S., Canada, Mexico, Japan, and Oceania if HA acquires some A321XLR planes.


The MAX7 isn’t reaching Houston/Dallas/KC from Hawaii.

He did state in the next 10-20 years.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 4576
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:10 am

Planeboy17 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
jplatts wrote:

WN will likely have planes that will be able to reach GUM, DAL, HOU, and MCI nonstop from Hawaii in the next 10-20 years with
(a) narrowbody planes becoming more fuel efficient with each generation,
(b) the published range of the 737 MAX 7 being 4,430 miles,
(c) GUM, DAL, HOU, and MCI all located within a 4,000 mile radius (by great circle distance) of HNL, and
(d) the 737 MAX 7's successor likely having more range than the 737 MAX 7.

HA could also order some A321XLR planes that would likely have enough range to reach GUM nonstop from HNL, as the A321XLR would likely have enough range to reach GUM nonstop from HNL. There are also some other markets that HA could expand to in the contiguous U.S., Canada, Mexico, Japan, and Oceania if HA acquires some A321XLR planes.


The MAX7 isn’t reaching Houston/Dallas/KC from Hawaii.

He did state in the next 10-20 years.


I also missed where they said successor. I’m not sure there will be a max successor, but as long as they weren’t talking max I don’t disagree in general with the points made.
 
Wneast
Posts: 1066
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:15 am

Jshank83 wrote:
Planeboy17 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:

The MAX7 isn’t reaching Houston/Dallas/KC from Hawaii.

He did state in the next 10-20 years.


I also missed where they said successor. I’m not sure there will be a max successor, but as long as they weren’t talking max I don’t disagree in general with the points made.

I think successor could mean a the Boeing NMA if WN takes the plane which is likely with the WN needing something more at some point
 
User avatar
DKNEF
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun May 17, 2020 6:47 am

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:46 am

I am surprised AM or HA haven't launched routes between HNL and MEX. There's a huge market between Latin America and Hawaii. AM could connect the rest of the south via MEX or Hawaiian offer connections to Asia..
 
ScottB
Posts: 7595
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:17 am

DKNEF wrote:
There's a huge market between Latin America and Hawaii. AM could connect the rest of the south via MEX or Hawaiian offer connections to Asia..


Is there really a "huge market?" There's no shortage of beautiful tropical beaches in Latin America and Hawaii is pricey even by U.S. standards. Mexico has volcanoes, too.

HNL isn't a great connecting point for South America-Asia because South America is pretty far east. For GRU-PEK, for example, it's a fair bit shorter to go via DXB or Europe than HNL. Further, transit in the U.S. is a pain for non-U.S. nationals since you'll need a visa unless you qualify for visa waiver -- and you have to go through the whole routine of clearing U.S. CBP.
 
User avatar
eta unknown
Posts: 3142
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:05 am

x1234 wrote:
I've always wondered why HA doesn't serve GUM. The islanders are sick of the UA monopoly. Surely if they serve AKL, SYD, ICN, HND they can serve GUM?

Look at the population of GUM... on a population basis, this is one of the most over-serviced places in the world. There have been several attempts for a competitor n HNL-GUM and all have failed. Remember also that UA has the govt. contract to transport federal employees- that should put any further speculation to rest.
 
User avatar
hawaiian717
Posts: 3570
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:46 am

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:42 pm

eta unknown wrote:
Remember also that UA has the govt. contract to transport federal employees- that should put any further speculation to rest.


These contracts are re-competed annually. For FY22, Delta also has a number of contracts out of GUM; looking at GUM-STL for example on Delta's web site shows a Korean Air-operated codeshare segment to ICN (foreign-operated codeshare flights are valid for city pair contracts if the US airline chooses to include them, and foreign-operated codeshares issued with a US carrier's flight number are considered flying a US airline for purposes of complying with the Fly America Act). If Hawaiian wanted to get into the GUM-HNL market, they could certainly do so and attempt to compete for GUM-HNL (not to mention other ex-GUM markets via HNL, including other islands and the mainland) for FY23 and beyond.
 
jplatts
Posts: 5070
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:58 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
I also missed where they said successor. I’m not sure there will be a max successor, but as long as they weren’t talking max I don’t disagree in general with the points made.


When I was referring to a 737 MAX successor, I meant a new Boeing narrowbody model that is similar in size to the 737-700 or 737 MAX 7, even if it is a completely new model instead of another generation of the Boeing 737.

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