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NYC Aviation Thread - 2020

Well since the Port Authority has decided to stop updating the passenger statistics I was wondering if anyone had the information? It was certainly an interesting year so I am even more interested to see how it ended.

From press release 6-2021:

Total passenger volumes in 2020 were down an estimated 71 percent across the Port Authority’s airports compared to 2019. Annual passenger volumes decreased an estimated 73 percent at John F. Kennedy International Airport, 66 percent at Newark Liberty International Airport, and 73 percent at LaGuardia Airport compared to 2019. In 2019, the airports had served a record high of 140 million passengers.

In 2019 EWR served about 46.3 MM pax. In 2020 this number fell to about 15.7 MM
In 2019 JFK served about 62.6 MM pax. In 2020 this number fell to about 16.9 MM
In 2019 LGA served about 31.1 MM pax. in 2020 this number fell to about 8.4 MM

The information is there, but you have to go through press releases and the passenger statistics for 2019 to approximate the values values.

Really depressing stats. Down 73% at JFK & LGA wow.

Not surprised by this due to the huge decline in business travel and NYC being a covid hotspot/having quarantine requirements.

Hopefully NYC airports pax will come back this year. In my observations from flying out of NYC airports a ton, things are definitely getting more crowded.

I saw today that the PANYNJ finally updated its passenger stats by adding November. That's only about 6-7 weeks late!

EWR ytd 14,672,573 total revenue, -65.3% vs ytd for same period in 2019. Add in non-revs and the total through Nov 30 is 15,252,198.
JFK ytd 15,473,340 total revenue, -73.1% vs ytd for same period in 2019. Add in non-revs and the total through Nov 30 is 16,121,651.
LGA ytd is 7,724,374 total revenue, -72.8% vs yts for same period in 2019. Add in non-revs and the total through Nov 30 is 8,119,571.

The "best" performer of the 3 in terms of degree of passenger decline is EWR and the PA admits as much (true for several months).

At this rate, I expect the actual 12 month numbers Jan-Dec, 2020 to be available around May 1.

EWRandMDW wrote:

I saw today that the PANYNJ finally updated its passenger stats by adding November. That's only about 6-7 weeks late!

I happened to note that LAX today has published through January.

Things are definitely getting better in NYC. Here are my experiences

LGA does not feel like a complete ghost town anymore and there are moments where it feels quite operational. I am speaking about Terminal B. It honestly may also be the new terminal. Old LGA always felt cramped and its so odd being in LGA in such an open space.

JFK feels quite operational in T4 and T5. Delta and Jetblue are pulling off a ton of routes and it shows, especially in the morning and at night. T5 is still nowhere near the crowds and atmosphere it once had. And T8... It is sad. I really enjoy that terminal, but with only 25 flights a day, it can feel quite barren. I still remember the old days of crowded T8. But, things are seeming to come back at JFK for domestics.

EWR is where I see the most improvement. Terminal C is always crowded and feels the most "normal". There are plenty of flights to go around and leisure traffic is high there. I hope United continues to add at EWR. The other terminals are more inline with LGA. F9 and NK pull off crowds in Terminal B when they actually have flights. EWR-MCO on NK and F9 are always packed. I have not flown AA or B6 so I can't speak for Terminal A

Overall, I really hope NYC airports come back. I miss the days of crowded terminals that are full of life. Such a unique atmosphere. I will be at T4 in 2 weeks to see how things are during the Spring season.

SQ ending the JFK-SIN nonstop and shifting it back to EWR June 1st.

STT757 wrote:

SQ ending the JFK-SIN nonstop and shifting it back to EWR June 1st.

Happy to hear as a EWR fan lol.

UA responding to B6 on a lot of these routes;

https://t.co/iWkuJwrhev

STT757 wrote:

SQ ending the JFK-SIN nonstop and shifting it back to EWR June 1st.

Is their June schedule set in stone though? From their website, it seems like their May schedule is finalized but not their June schedule.

Nicknuzzii wrote:

UA responding to B6 on a lot of these routes;

https://t.co/iWkuJwrhev

.

Aside from EWR-STT going to 2x daily, everything else in there are either not EWR related or seem completely reasonable adjustments. I see these as chasing after revenue

Wonder if JFK-SIN nonstop is ending (and being replaced with the original EWR-SIN) because JFK-FRA-SIN is resuming? I have not seen it announced but it was recently bookable.

tphuang wrote:

Nicknuzzii wrote:

UA responding to B6 on a lot of these routes;

https://t.co/iWkuJwrhev

.

Aside from EWR-STT going to 2x daily, everything else in there are either not EWR related or seem completely reasonable adjustments. I see these as chasing after revenue

EWR-SXM. Then they are expanding EWR-SJD to fight along all the JFK-SJD adds.

Ishrion wrote:

STT757 wrote:

SQ ending the JFK-SIN nonstop and shifting it back to EWR June 1st.

Is their June schedule set in stone though? From their website, it seems like their May schedule is finalized but not their June schedule.

I don’t think so but this was reported as news from different people so I guess something had to be said?

Ishrion wrote:

STT757 wrote:

SQ ending the JFK-SIN nonstop and shifting it back to EWR June 1st.

Is their June schedule set in stone though? From their website, it seems like their May schedule is finalized but not their June schedule.

I don’t think so but this was reported as news from different people so I guess something had to be said?

This NYC thread is always such a loser compared to other city threads. Anyone in NYC know why that is?

2 months with not one post!

As for SIN, who is on this flight right now?

[url][/url]

jfklganyc wrote:

This NYC thread is always such a loser compared to other city threads. Anyone in NYC know why that is?

2 months with not one post!

As for SIN, who is on this flight right now?

Most of the NYC stuff gets its own thread or into separate threads because so many people are interested.

I think it's:
1.NYC demand is really lagging behind other markets on coming back. Super business heavy o&d. Domestic leisure markets are recovering faster. Nyc is the gateway to europe for NA, those flights when they return in mass will make more posts.
2.nyc has so much service and flights it's hard to be impressed or have a note worthy change. In other markets delta adding a second flight to mco or frontier going daily is a huge deal. In nyc airports those changes just happen so often and it's not a news worthy thread. In other markets you see local news pieces on flights added it's so rare nyc local news mention flight changes.

STT757 wrote:

SQ ending the JFK-SIN nonstop and shifting it back to EWR June 1st.

Back to the A359ulr or will the still run the normal A359 until biz travel picks back up?

It fits in with the mentality of NYers

Howard Stern, who almost never travels, once went to St Louis for some radio thing. He looked at the arch and said we have bridges in New York that we dont even look at that are nicer than this.

Albeit a myopic viewpoint, he does raise a valid point.

If any other city had the Verazzano Bridge, it would be on every other post card. Here, it is barely a thought.

Our joint airport thread is the same way! 6 airports and 18 million people...we have moved the worlds longest flight (or one of the longest) from one airport to another and back.

Afterthought

jfklganyc wrote:

It fits in with the mentality of NYers

Howard Stern, who almost never travels, once went to St Louis for some radio thing. He looked at the arch and said we have bridges in New York that we dont even look at that are nicer than this.

Albeit a myopic viewpoint, he does raise a valid point.

If any other city had the Verazzano Bridge, it would be on every other post card. Here, it is barely a thought.

Our joint airport thread is the same way! 6 airports and 18 million people...we have moved the worlds longest flight (or one of the longest) from one airport to another and back.

Afterthought

LOL. Depends on the perspective, I guess. The NY aviation market will remain soft for some time. As the #1 gateway to Europe, the market for TATL flights will remain very soft, with a barebones network, and I suspect many routes will be postponed well into the summer or simply not run this summer, given the third wave in Europe, slow uptake with vaccines in the EU, and the now temporary suspension of the AstraZeneca vaccine. NYC broadly skews business O&D and it is (or was) the largest in the world pre-pandemic, but right now, business travel is essentially on life support and unlikely to ramp back or even show modest increases until 2022. Traffic now is overwhelmingly leisure, and until April 1 anyway, NYC is subject to entry requirements and quarantines.

UA is definitely responding to B6 at EWR with the additions it has made, coupled with the fact there are far fewer international destinations that Americans can travel to right now, so the Caribbean and Mexico beach markets are it. This will wind down very quickly once we get into hurricane season, which is predicted to be active.

Europe it’s going to be a problem for another year.

The vaccine roll out there has been a disaster and they are locking down again

This summer is toast and loading flights for the fall is useless unless you’re a B6 trying to get their foot in the door

jfklganyc wrote:

Europe it’s going to be a problem for another year.

The vaccine roll out there has been a disaster and they are locking down again

This summer is toast and loading flights for the fall is useless unless you’re a B6 trying to get their foot in the door

Try and tell that to UA after you look at their May TATL schedule.

Nicknuzzii wrote:

jfklganyc wrote:

Europe it’s going to be a problem for another year.

The vaccine roll out there has been a disaster and they are locking down again

This summer is toast and loading flights for the fall is useless unless you’re a B6 trying to get their foot in the door

Try and tell that to UA after you look at their May TATL schedule.

UA has already signaled big cuts on TATL. This is not a complete list but ZRH, GVA, TXL are all suspended. LHR frequencies will be down, SFO-DUB and CDG also cut. I suspect FCO, MXP will be pushed well into the summer if they return at all. All the UA gateways are impacted, notably EWR, ORD, IAD and SFO to Europe.

Nicknuzzii wrote:

jfklganyc wrote:

Europe it’s going to be a problem for another year.

The vaccine roll out there has been a disaster and they are locking down again

This summer is toast and loading flights for the fall is useless unless you’re a B6 trying to get their foot in the door

Try and tell that to UA after you look at their May TATL schedule.

With Europe halting administering AZ vaccine yesterday nad starting to re-impose lockdowns in places in the face of a variant-fueled new wave, that May schedule could easily be optmistic.

Hopefully they can figure their stuff out but the EU has not done well to date on their vax rollout.

I would imagine as we get closer to summer, all the legacies will do further reduction from NYC to Europe. I can't imagine FCO sustaining that much capacity when Italy is going into another lockdown.

ContinentalEWR wrote:

Nicknuzzii wrote:

jfklganyc wrote:

Europe it’s going to be a problem for another year.

The vaccine roll out there has been a disaster and they are locking down again

This summer is toast and loading flights for the fall is useless unless you’re a B6 trying to get their foot in the door

Try and tell that to UA after you look at their May TATL schedule.

UA has already signaled big cuts on TATL. This is not a complete list but ZRH, GVA, TXL are all suspended. LHR frequencies will be down, SFO-DUB and CDG also cut. I suspect FCO, MXP will be pushed well into the summer if they return at all. All the UA gateways are impacted, notably EWR, ORD, IAD and SFO to Europe.

UA is resuming ZRH next month.

Nicknuzzii wrote:

ContinentalEWR wrote:

Nicknuzzii wrote:

Try and tell that to UA after you look at their May TATL schedule.

UA has already signaled big cuts on TATL. This is not a complete list but ZRH, GVA, TXL are all suspended. LHR frequencies will be down, SFO-DUB and CDG also cut. I suspect FCO, MXP will be pushed well into the summer if they return at all. All the UA gateways are impacted, notably EWR, ORD, IAD and SFO to Europe.

UA is resuming ZRH next month.

Dont bet on it.

Or they can resume it and fly empty planes

jfklganyc wrote:

It fits in with the mentality of NYers

Howard Stern, who almost never travels, once went to St Louis for some radio thing. He looked at the arch and said we have bridges in New York that we dont even look at that are nicer than this.

Albeit a myopic viewpoint, he does raise a valid point.

If any other city had the Verazzano Bridge, it would be on every other post card. Here, it is barely a thought.

Our joint airport thread is the same way! 6 airports and 18 million people...we have moved the worlds longest flight (or one of the longest) from one airport to another and back.

Afterthought

Counterpoint. I am in NYC. Using your example, I wont even think of the Verazzano as the first or second bridge to use when making an example. Kinda goes with Howard's point, no? NYC is NYC. The Verrazano is just another bridge when you have at least 6 other "nice" bridge river crossings in the area. And as others have said. Anything with NYC gets its own thread anyway. Its exactly because NYC is NYC that these threads are dead. It's to big and fascinating and attention grabbing to be contained in one thread

Nicknuzzii wrote:

ContinentalEWR wrote:

Nicknuzzii wrote:

Try and tell that to UA after you look at their May TATL schedule.

UA has already signaled big cuts on TATL. This is not a complete list but ZRH, GVA, TXL are all suspended. LHR frequencies will be down, SFO-DUB and CDG also cut. I suspect FCO, MXP will be pushed well into the summer if they return at all. All the UA gateways are impacted, notably EWR, ORD, IAD and SFO to Europe.

UA is resuming ZRH next month.

Don't bet on it. And if they do, it will be only one of the 4 nonstops they usually have.

Quick question? is it only terminal 1 or the rest of the terminals will be upgraded as well. what's going to happen with existing terminal A

The FAA recently changed a rule that prohibited PFC funds being used for transit. The old rule is the reason why airports like EWR, JFK built "Airtrains" or people movers to connect nearby transit or commuter rail rather than having the rail go directly into the airport like PHL and DCA. New people mover connections are either currently under construction or being planned at LaGuardia and LAX.

Organizations and transit advocates are trying to take advantage and eliminate the people mover connections and add rail directly to the terminals specifically at LAX and LGA.

http://blog.tstc.org/2021/02/24/subway-to-laguardia-made-possible-by-faa-rule-change/

https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2021/03/16/cuomos-wrong-way-airtrain-boondoggle-moves-ahead/

The rule change will also benefit the PATH extension to EWR, that is to be built to the existing Airlink station on the NEC where it connects to the Airtrain. The Port Authority is going to replace the EWR Airtrain with a new system. Theoretically with the new rule they could run the PATH train right into the Central Terminal area negating the need for a new Airtrain or atleast they could be a smaller version to connect the Terminals and parking.

HIA350 wrote:

Quick question? is it only terminal 1 or the rest of the terminals will be upgraded as well. what's going to happen with existing terminal A

Eventually all three, right now Terminal One is under construction and Terminal Two is in the planning stages. Terminal A will have it's concourses demolished and the central terminal house will remain until the new Airtrain is built. They don't want to tear down Terminal A with the current fragile Airtrain running right through the middle.

Major cuts are coming to europe this summer. The airlines rightfully were trying to be overly optimistic and get bookings incase there was a miracle surge . The new lockdowns and different virus strains it seems hard to imagine borders are open. Certainly not to tourists. The lockdowns are gonna trigger cancellations and people not booking for summer at a minimum. Europe rollbacks are coming , that will trigger some nyc changes. I bet we see the airlines add more domestic leisure o&d after that with the capacity.

Hard to guess anything in these times, but I bet we don't see nyc demand as a destination but alot of new yorkers will what to escape to outdoor destinations . Those could fuel the adds?

United is back at Kennedy Airport JFK!

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL3345/history/20210316/1040Z/KIAH/KJFK

Videos and photos on Twitter, Tower welcomed them back. Crew familiarization for the official start date on March 28.

Major efforts underway to stop the wrong way Airtrain at LGA and replace with branch of N Train.

https://slate.com/business/2021/03/andrew-cuomo-laguardia-train-master-builder.amp?mc_cid=3f1491814a&mc_eid=4c4d316e23&__twitter_impression=true

I was just on the PANYNJ site checking if they finally managed to get December 2020 passenger stats for the airports. Not yet, but hopefully by next month, fingers crossed!

While there, I checked on the progress of Terminal 1 development at EWR. Terminal 1 is to replace the 1970s era Terminal A when completed. It was named Terminal 1 to be consistent with naming conventions at airports actually in NYC. Well, I saw that Terminal 1 has been renamed the new Terminal A! Maybe airport patrons from NJ wanted to keep the existing name? I don't know and don't care but I'm thrilled EWR will get to keep some individuality!

Certainly interesting. Still annoying about the December pax stats.

Doesn't bother me at all. I always thought the name "Terminal 1" was odd and led to speculation that Terminal B was going to be razed as well and called Terminal 2 (which clearly it's not.)

EWRandMDW wrote:

It was named Terminal 1 to be consistent with naming conventions at airports actually in NYC.

Huh? LGA has Terminals A, B, C, and D (although D will eventually be retired).

I was told the name would be kept Terminal A to help simplify some of the logistics of changing road signs, approach roadways, AirTrain signage, bus routing, etc.

N649DL wrote:

Doesn't bother me at all. I always thought the name "Terminal 1" was odd and led to speculation that Terminal B was going to be razed as well and called Terminal 2 (which clearly it's not.)

That is indeed what's going to happen, no speculation, though perhaps not as soon as it would have pre-COVID. The long-term plan is to demolish Terminal B and the Marriott to construct a new terminal with its headhouse closer (and parallel) to 1&9, right about where the hotel presently sits. This would enable increasing the spacing between the parallel 4/22s, which is the only way to increase airfield capacity in the current configuration.

N649DL wrote:

Doesn't bother me at all. I always thought the name "Terminal 1" was odd and led to speculation that Terminal B was going to be razed as well and called Terminal 2 (which clearly it's not.)

No speculation, that’s what they’re doing.

https://corpinfo.panynj.gov/files/uploads/documents/board-meeting-information/board-committee-meeting-presentations/CPEAM_-_EWR_Terminal_2_-_Public_Session.pdf

codc10 wrote:

N649DL wrote:

Doesn't bother me at all. I always thought the name "Terminal 1" was odd and led to speculation that Terminal B was going to be razed as well and called Terminal 2 (which clearly it's not.)

That is indeed what's going to happen, no speculation, though perhaps not as soon as it would have pre-COVID. The long-term plan is to demolish Terminal B and the Marriott to construct a new terminal with its headhouse closer (and parallel) to 1&9, right about where the hotel presently sits. This would enable increasing the spacing between the parallel 4/22s, which is the only way to increase airfield capacity in the current configuration.

There are no plans to increase the spacing of the runways. They are constructing end-arounds around both ends of the runways. That will ease ground congestion somewhat.

leader1 wrote:

codc10 wrote:

N649DL wrote:

Doesn't bother me at all. I always thought the name "Terminal 1" was odd and led to speculation that Terminal B was going to be razed as well and called Terminal 2 (which clearly it's not.)

That is indeed what's going to happen, no speculation, though perhaps not as soon as it would have pre-COVID. The long-term plan is to demolish Terminal B and the Marriott to construct a new terminal with its headhouse closer (and parallel) to 1&9, right about where the hotel presently sits. This would enable increasing the spacing between the parallel 4/22s, which is the only way to increase airfield capacity in the current configuration.

There are no plans to increase the spacing of the runways. They are constructing end-arounds around both ends of the runways. That will ease ground congestion somewhat.

The relocation of terminals will *enable* increased spacing, but you are correct, there’s no project in line for approval to actually carry it out. But it’s part of a long-term master plan (also to partially demolish C-1), of course subject to change.

STT757 wrote:

N649DL wrote:

Doesn't bother me at all. I always thought the name "Terminal 1" was odd and led to speculation that Terminal B was going to be razed as well and called Terminal 2 (which clearly it's not.)

No speculation, that’s what they’re doing.

https://corpinfo.panynj.gov/files/uploads/documents/board-meeting-information/board-committee-meeting-presentations/CPEAM_-_EWR_Terminal_2_-_Public_Session.pdf

Yeah in like, what, 50 years? Com'on: Terminal B is a functional facility with recent updates. By the time they get around to it, they might as well start considering a new Terminal C!

N649DL wrote:

STT757 wrote:

N649DL wrote:

Doesn't bother me at all. I always thought the name "Terminal 1" was odd and led to speculation that Terminal B was going to be razed as well and called Terminal 2 (which clearly it's not.)

No speculation, that’s what they’re doing.

https://corpinfo.panynj.gov/files/uploads/documents/board-meeting-information/board-committee-meeting-presentations/CPEAM_-_EWR_Terminal_2_-_Public_Session.pdf

Yeah in like, what, 50 years? Com'on: Terminal B is a functional facility with recent updates. By the time they get around to it, they might as well start considering a new Terminal C!

Yes, when the Terminal reaches 50 years of age in two years (2023). For comparison when the construction of the replacement of LGA's Central Terminal Building began it was 50 years of age. The former Pan Am World Port was 53 years of age when it was torn down.

Why would you be against replacing Terminal B at EWR when it reaches 50 years of age in two years?

And yes, Terminal C will be next after Terminal B.

A few weeks ago, Google Satellite didn't have much on the new terminal at all, but they finally updated themselves!!



I can SO see EWR getting a new runway once a series of these new terminals are complete - perhaps even including the tear-down of part of C and moving 4L/22R west a bit.