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jayunited
Posts: 3595
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: UA announces BOS-LHR

Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:12 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
jayunited wrote:
To hit the 50% threshold UA would need to operate 1x daily EWR, IAD, ORD, IAH, DEN, SFO, LAX, a cargo only flight, as well as BOS this would get us to 9x daily nonstop flights.

If we operate 2x daily out of EWR with 1x daily from all other hubs plus a cargo only flight and the BOS flight that would put UA at 10x daily nonstop flights.


5x or 6x daily, UA will need to operate at least 2x pax and 1 cargo flight or 1x pax and 2x cargo flights from EWR.


The 50% rule applies to the total number of slots UA currently has at LHR not simply based on EWR. United does not need 6x daily EWR-LHR so it is a no brainier for them to move a slot from EWR to BOS.

Pre-pandemic UA operated 18 flights into LHR. I think we may have picked up an additional slot late last year which would put us at 19 total flights. To meet the 50% rule UA would either need to operate 9 or 10 flights to hit or exceed the 50% rule to keep from loosing our remaining LHR slots that we will not need this summer.

All airlines operating into LHR this summer must use 50% of their total slots or loose their unused slots. For an airline like UA loosing at least 9 slots at LHR would be devastating.
 
rjbesikof
Posts: 291
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:21 am

Re: UA announces BOS-LHR

Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:33 am

jayunited wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
jayunited wrote:
To hit the 50% threshold UA would need to operate 1x daily EWR, IAD, ORD, IAH, DEN, SFO, LAX, a cargo only flight, as well as BOS this would get us to 9x daily nonstop flights.

If we operate 2x daily out of EWR with 1x daily from all other hubs plus a cargo only flight and the BOS flight that would put UA at 10x daily nonstop flights.


5x or 6x daily, UA will need to operate at least 2x pax and 1 cargo flight or 1x pax and 2x cargo flights from EWR.


The 50% rule applies to the total number of slots UA currently has at LHR not simply based on EWR. United does not need 6x daily EWR-LHR so it is a no brainier for them to move a slot from EWR to BOS.

Pre-pandemic UA operated 18 flights into LHR. I think we may have picked up an additional slot late last year which would put us at 19 total flights. To meet the 50% rule UA would either need to operate 9 or 10 flights to hit or exceed the 50% rule to keep from loosing our remaining LHR slots that we will not need this summer.

All airlines operating into LHR this summer must use 50% of their total slots or loose their unused slots. For an airline like UA loosing at least 9 slots at LHR would be devastating.


Why do they have that 50% rule, especially now with the new mutation?
 
GmoneyCO
Posts: 227
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:42 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread, Q1 2021

Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:50 am

763:
N651UA - Entered HKG for maintenance on 19-Feb/2745
N664UA - Entered HKG for maintenance on 30-Jan/2717

772:
N210UA - Scheduled exit from HKG on 21-Feb/2843
N776UA - Scheduled entry into HKG on 21-Feb/2842


N780UA - Does anyone know what is going on with this aircraft, it has been stuck in HNL since 5-Feb
 
catiii
Posts: 3889
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: UA announces BOS-LHR

Sat Feb 20, 2021 4:20 am

Seat1D wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Seat1D wrote:

I don't think United is worried about that. There is always a way 'in'. You should know that of all people.


I don't know what you mean by that. They have 6 gates at BOS and there just aren't gates available. DL has been able to expand at BOS due to having all of Terminal A. There are no new terminal projects like in EWR or with airlines leaving (WN) that just suddenly opens up more gate. JFK is slot constrained.

FLL is quite constrained and any expansion would face AA retaliation. B6 really isn't big anywhere else.

If UA makes a play to expand at LAX, it wouldn't be because they are attacking B6.


Maybe there arent gates available now at BOS but whos to say that wont change?


By your rationale, who’s to say B6 wouldn’t get those gates if they came available?
 
catiii
Posts: 3889
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: UA announces BOS-LHR

Sat Feb 20, 2021 4:21 am

ChrisNH38 wrote:
What was the general reason why UA gave up on this route last time? IIRC, it came at a time when there were fewer seats in the market than there are now.


9/11...
 
catiii
Posts: 3889
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: UA announces BOS-LHR

Sat Feb 20, 2021 4:22 am

rjbesikof wrote:
jayunited wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:

5x or 6x daily, UA will need to operate at least 2x pax and 1 cargo flight or 1x pax and 2x cargo flights from EWR.


The 50% rule applies to the total number of slots UA currently has at LHR not simply based on EWR. United does not need 6x daily EWR-LHR so it is a no brainier for them to move a slot from EWR to BOS.

Pre-pandemic UA operated 18 flights into LHR. I think we may have picked up an additional slot late last year which would put us at 19 total flights. To meet the 50% rule UA would either need to operate 9 or 10 flights to hit or exceed the 50% rule to keep from loosing our remaining LHR slots that we will not need this summer.

All airlines operating into LHR this summer must use 50% of their total slots or loose their unused slots. For an airline like UA loosing at least 9 slots at LHR would be devastating.


Why do they have that 50% rule, especially now with the new mutation?


They’re not moving an EWR slot pair. These are remedy slots per the CMA’S May 2020 order on the AA/BA JV.
 
wn676
Posts: 1759
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 5:33 am

Re: UA announces BOS-LHR

Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:45 am

tphuang wrote:
Seat1D wrote:
tphuang wrote:

You might want to check the gate/slot situation on each of JetBlue's major focus cities.


I don't think United is worried about that. There is always a way 'in'. You should know that of all people.


They have 6 gates at BOS and there just aren't gates available.


They have 9 gates at BOS.
 
Pinto
Posts: 112
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:30 pm

Re: UA announces BOS-LHR

Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:02 am

catiii wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
jayunited wrote:

The 50% rule applies to the total number of slots UA currently has at LHR not simply based on EWR. United does not need 6x daily EWR-LHR so it is a no brainier for them to move a slot from EWR to BOS.

Pre-pandemic UA operated 18 flights into LHR. I think we may have picked up an additional slot late last year which would put us at 19 total flights. To meet the 50% rule UA would either need to operate 9 or 10 flights to hit or exceed the 50% rule to keep from loosing our remaining LHR slots that we will not need this summer.

All airlines operating into LHR this summer must use 50% of their total slots or loose their unused slots. For an airline like UA loosing at least 9 slots at LHR would be devastating.


Why do they have that 50% rule, especially now with the new mutation?


They’re not moving an EWR slot pair. These are remedy slots per the CMA’S May 2020 order on the AA/BA JV.


They are technically moving a slot pair. The slots being used were supposed to be for a 7th daily EWR-LHR
 
FR24Virus
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:00 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread, Q1 2021

Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:13 am

GmoneyCO wrote:
763:
N653UA - Entered HKG on 16-Feb not on 10-Jan. ---- Typo on Fleet Site
N654UA - Entered HKG on 16-Feb not on 10-Jan. ---- Typo on Fleet Site
N655UA - Exited HKG on 19-Feb/2831 en-route to ORD
N675UA - Entered ILN on 11-Jan not 24-Sept ---- Typo on Fleet Site


Thanks, great info.
With N674UA converted to Polaris, sounds like high potential for Polaris on N653UA.
 
mpdpilot
Posts: 825
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:44 am

Re: UA announces BOS-LHR

Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:23 am

nomorerjs wrote:
What’s next? Virgin / DL on ORD-LHR? Probably not unless they have corporate contracts or want to lose money!


Actually with Delta moving to T5 at ORD and a new sky club, it wouldn't be the worst idea. Certainly no worse than UA flying BOS-LHR (also not a bad thing in my opinion).

I fly Delta almost exclusively and I find myself in ORD a fair amount and the club is always packed. I think a.net tends to under estimate the number of loyal travelers in non hub cities. After all it is one flight, not even close to the number of TATL flights UA operates out of EWR. They don't need feed, and BOS being the city it is, I bet there are plenty of *Alliance travelers to make this work.

Afterall, in this covid world it is more about covering those variable costs.
 
peterinlisbon
Posts: 1959
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:37 am

Re: UA announces BOS-LHR

Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:32 am

It kind of makes sense, since it's the shortest route between London and the USA. Boston can offer a lot of onward connections without the hassle of changing terminals, crowds and long delays found at some of the bigger airports.
 
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scbriml
Posts: 20090
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: UA announces BOS-LHR

Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:42 am

joeljack wrote:
Schedule seems great! Can see family for dinner in evening then leave for work in London.

On return, can work in London til 2pm then head to airport to come home. I like it myself!


You'd leave central London at 2pm for a 5pm departure from Heathrow? Are you taking a helicopter?
 
BrianDromey
Posts: 3083
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:23 am

Re: UA announces BOS-LHR

Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:44 am

This is certainly interesting and unexpected. I think it reflects how the network planners are forecasting the recovery post pandemic. It’s going to be much more leisure driven and much less “business”. High frequency won’t necessarily drive revenue and connections will be less attractive - partly convenience and partly to avoid mixing. The tipping point between the relative attractiveness of adding a 9th daily EWR-LHR vs starting a new route BOS-LHR has clearly been surpassed. It’s going to be an interesting time for airline route maps.

jayunited wrote:
All airlines operating into LHR this summer must use 50% of their total slots or loose their unused slots. For an airline like UA loosing at least 9 slots at LHR would be devastating.


My understanding is that’s not quite right. To retain 2022 grandfather rights airlines have to use 50% of what was planned to operate on the 31st of January. Airlines could hand back slots prior to that date and retain grandfather rights for summer 2022 without operating ANY of the surrendered slots. After February 1 airlines have to operate 50% of their slots to retain grandfather rights.
In short of UA planned to operate 100% of their 2021 slots on Feb 1 they will have to use 50% of that allocation in Summer 21, or surrender them. If UA had 18 slots in 2019 they could have returned 2 slots and then only had to operate a minimum of 8 daily flights throughout the summer.
 
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ADent
Posts: 1210
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:11 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread, Q1 2021

Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:19 am

JFKalumni wrote:
AVENSAB727 wrote:
Nope, there are still plenty that are in bad need of new paint.


Ship 127 (757 RR) is getting there.

 
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LAX772LR
Posts: 14133
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: UA announces BOS-LHR

Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:41 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Huge hole for *A? I don’t really think so. A huge hole would be no Skyteam TATL service at all to PHL or EWR.

LOL, how is either one a "huge hole"....?

SkyTeam's largest TATL gateway is in the same metro as EWR, and PHL has managed to sustain a grand total of one longhaul carrier who's not an AA partner......
 
Golfmikey
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:41 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread, Q1 2021

Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:16 am

FR24Virus wrote:
GmoneyCO wrote:
763:
N653UA - Entered HKG on 16-Feb not on 10-Jan. ---- Typo on Fleet Site
N654UA - Entered HKG on 16-Feb not on 10-Jan. ---- Typo on Fleet Site
N655UA - Exited HKG on 19-Feb/2831 en-route to ORD
N675UA - Entered ILN on 11-Jan not 24-Sept ---- Typo on Fleet Site


Thanks, great info.
With N674UA converted to Polaris, sounds like high potential for Polaris on N653UA.


I would assume so as well but then prob to GYR after.

763:
N674UA heading to GYR today as UA2755
 
fun2fly
Posts: 1711
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:44 am

Re: UA announces BOS-LHR

Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:17 am

scbriml wrote:
joeljack wrote:
Schedule seems great! Can see family for dinner in evening then leave for work in London.

On return, can work in London til 2pm then head to airport to come home. I like it myself!


You'd leave central London at 2pm for a 5pm departure from Heathrow? Are you taking a helicopter?


2PM Tube from central London will get you to LHR in approx. 50 min from St. Pancras and other central London stops so you're there at 3PM, a comfortable 2 hour cushion.

While this is mostly and O&D situation, some pax will connect. For example, you can connect to Aegean to get to ATH, a city that BOS does not have direct service to.

Overall, good deal for UA.
 
N757ST
Posts: 1116
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 6:00 am

Re: UA announces BOS-LHR

Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:32 am

peterinlisbon wrote:
It kind of makes sense, since it's the shortest route between London and the USA. Boston can offer a lot of onward connections without the hassle of changing terminals, crowds and long delays found at some of the bigger airports.



Have you been to Boston? Connecting from E (which pre Covid was buckling at the seams) to B isn’t exactly quick and easy, and with the high C Gates getting rebuilt I’m not sure the connection exists landslide unless you take a bus or walk through the parking garages.
 
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jfklganyc
Posts: 6514
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: UA announces BOS-LHR

Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:45 am

Anyone think large amounts of Americans will be traveling to Britain this summer?

I sure dont.

Call me skeptical on this announcement.
 
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ChrisNH38
Posts: 374
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:53 pm

Re: UA announces BOS-LHR

Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:10 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Anyone think large amounts of Americans will be traveling to Britain this summer?

I sure dont.

Call me skeptical on this announcement.


The announcement said later in 2021, so after this summer season ends. A curious time to start, though, unless slot rules demand they do. I don’t think AA, with their expected 777 this summer, will have much success.
 
N649DL
Posts: 1185
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: UA announces BOS-LHR

Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:17 pm

This is insane considering they haven't returned to JFK just yet. UA already failed on this route after 9/11, and it's the last route I would think they would restart at the moment. Back when they did BOS-LHR on a 763 they also had a lot of Widebody service on BOS-LAX/SFO (thus it filtered into it) & also opened a large MX hangar at the time at BOS. Legacy UA actually canned BOS-LHR ahead of EWR-LHR (the latter didn't go until sometime in 2004.) So it's a ballsy move for them and best of luck.

wn676 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Seat1D wrote:

I don't think United is worried about that. There is always a way 'in'. You should know that of all people.


They have 6 gates at BOS and there just aren't gates available.


They have 9 gates at BOS.


I actually think UA has 10 gates at BOS. It's essentially it's own concourse. MASSPORT gave them a golden opportunity at the time to consolidate the UA/CO operations under one roof at the time and they went for it.

CALMSP wrote:
NZ321 wrote:
joeljack wrote:

Schedule seems great! Can see family for dinner in evening then leave for work in London.


It's sure gonna be a short and early dinner if that's the case....


no kidding! I avoid EWR-LHR as it is, BOS is gonna be that much shorter! Would really have loved a morning BOS-LHR on the 75.


Really? BOS-LHR is like 30 minutes faster than from EWR. I guess you can beat the line at Burger King for Breakfast in Heathrow, but that's not the point of starting the route up (and it's not going to be a morning flight I'm sure.)
 
jayunited
Posts: 3595
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread, Q1 2021

Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:32 pm

Golfmikey wrote:
FR24Virus wrote:
GmoneyCO wrote:
763:
N653UA - Entered HKG on 16-Feb not on 10-Jan. ---- Typo on Fleet Site
N654UA - Entered HKG on 16-Feb not on 10-Jan. ---- Typo on Fleet Site
N655UA - Exited HKG on 19-Feb/2831 en-route to ORD
N675UA - Entered ILN on 11-Jan not 24-Sept ---- Typo on Fleet Site


Thanks, great info.
With N674UA converted to Polaris, sounds like high potential for Polaris on N653UA.


I would assume so as well but then prob to GYR after.

763:
N674UA heading to GYR today as UA2755


Yes this is what United stated that has gotten some employees upset. United is pulling aircraft out of storage for maintenance and in the case of the remaining 763s with diamond seats when they enter HEACO for heavy maintenance UA is also installing Polaris/PE but afterward the aircraft are going back to GYR until they are needed. We all know UA's most recent history was defer, defer, defer however Kirby has stated he will not neglect the fleet to save money now because it would only cost UA more money down the road.
 
LGeneReese
Posts: 310
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:36 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread, Q1 2021

Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:38 pm

AVENSAB727 wrote:
LGeneReese wrote:
JFKalumni wrote:

Ship 2791 is on its way to SFO. It was inside the ballpark getting deiced

This flying machine is now in VCV... hopefully there are no other craft in as bad condition flying...

Nope, there are still plenty that are in bad need of new paint.

Here’s an idea.. post images and list of planes in need of paint.. and see when task accomplished.
 
Golfmikey
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:41 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread, Q1 2021

Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:52 pm

jayunited wrote:
Golfmikey wrote:
FR24Virus wrote:

Thanks, great info.
With N674UA converted to Polaris, sounds like high potential for Polaris on N653UA.


I would assume so as well but then prob to GYR after.

763:
N674UA heading to GYR today as UA2755


Yes this is what United stated that has gotten some employees upset. United is pulling aircraft out of storage for maintenance and in the case of the remaining 763s with diamond seats when they enter HEACO for heavy maintenance UA is also installing Polaris/PE but afterward the aircraft are going back to GYR until they are needed. We all know UA's most recent history was defer, defer, defer however Kirby has stated he will not neglect the fleet to save money now because it would only cost UA more money down the road.



It makes perfect sense to me...I hope the two 789’s in XMN are getting mods right now as well. the more the merrier and will be better for summer 2022
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4664
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: UA announces BOS-LHR

Sat Feb 20, 2021 1:17 pm

N649DL wrote:
This is insane considering they haven't returned to JFK just yet. UA already failed on this route after 9/11, and it's the last route I would think they would restart at the moment. Back when they did BOS-LHR on a 763 they also had a lot of Widebody service on BOS-LAX/SFO (thus it filtered into it) & also opened a large MX hangar at the time at BOS. Legacy UA actually canned BOS-LHR ahead of EWR-LHR (the latter didn't go until sometime in 2004.) So it's a ballsy move for them and best of luck.

wn676 wrote:
tphuang wrote:

They have 6 gates at BOS and there just aren't gates available.


They have 9 gates at BOS.


I actually think UA has 10 gates at BOS. It's essentially it's own concourse. MASSPORT gave them a golden opportunity at the time to consolidate the UA/CO operations under one roof at the time and they went for it.

CALMSP wrote:
NZ321 wrote:

It's sure gonna be a short and early dinner if that's the case....


no kidding! I avoid EWR-LHR as it is, BOS is gonna be that much shorter! Would really have loved a morning BOS-LHR on the 75.


Really? BOS-LHR is like 30 minutes faster than from EWR. I guess you can beat the line at Burger King for Breakfast in Heathrow, but that's not the point of starting the route up (and it's not going to be a morning flight I'm sure.)


Very unlikely UA will return to JFK-LHR for a few reasons. It does not have the slots at JFK or LHR to do it, it does not have the facilities (premium lounge at JFK, though that could be built out), and it would need frequency to be relevant up against AA/BA and DL/VS. Other than BA, you don't AA or DL/VS operating at EWR for similar reasons. UA adding BOS-LHR is coming at the wrong time and clearly designed to blunt B6's entry into the market. Traffic on the US-LHR corridor will take a while to rebound as it is dependent on business travel and a healthy mix of leisure. And no, BOS-LHR on UA will be a 10PM departure. So, it's not going to be a daylight service and it will be on a high J 767-300ER.
 
jayunited
Posts: 3595
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: UA announces BOS-LHR

Sat Feb 20, 2021 1:30 pm

BrianDromey wrote:
This is certainly interesting and unexpected. I think it reflects how the network planners are forecasting the recovery post pandemic. It’s going to be much more leisure driven and much less “business”. High frequency won’t necessarily drive revenue and connections will be less attractive - partly convenience and partly to avoid mixing. The tipping point between the relative attractiveness of adding a 9th daily EWR-LHR vs starting a new route BOS-LHR has clearly been surpassed. It’s going to be an interesting time for airline route maps.

jayunited wrote:
All airlines operating into LHR this summer must use 50% of their total slots or loose their unused slots. For an airline like UA loosing at least 9 slots at LHR would be devastating.


My understanding is that’s not quite right. To retain 2022 grandfather rights airlines have to use 50% of what was planned to operate on the 31st of January. Airlines could hand back slots prior to that date and retain grandfather rights for summer 2022 without operating ANY of the surrendered slots. After February 1 airlines have to operate 50% of their slots to retain grandfather rights.
In short of UA planned to operate 100% of their 2021 slots on Feb 1 they will have to use 50% of that allocation in Summer 21, or surrender them. If UA had 18 slots in 2019 they could have returned 2 slots and then only had to operate a minimum of 8 daily flights throughout the summer.



There are several articles available to the public on this issue here below are two links. Airlines are not required to operate 50% of what they planned on January 31st they must operate 50% of their total allocated slots from June through September 2021.


https://www.iata.org/contentassets/4820 ... -slots.pdf

https://londonairtravel.com/2021/01/29/ ... ot-waiver/
 
User avatar
cosyr
Posts: 1632
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:23 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread, Q1 2021

Sat Feb 20, 2021 1:54 pm

AC4500 wrote:
United adds daily BOS-LHR flights: https://hub.united.com/2021-02-19-unite ... 21690.html

BOS-LHR: 10:00 PM - 9:35 AM (+1)
LHR-BOS: 5:00 PM - 7:30 PM

Aircraft: 767-300ER

I don't think UA is serious about this route. When I heard about it, my first thought was this was to negotiate some slots at JFK, but now I'm hearing about the pressure that B6 is putting on EWR-Florida routes (some of the most reliable routes UA has during COVID) and now I think this is a shot across the bow to B6 to back off.
 
RobJNYC
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:17 pm

Re: UA announces BOS-LHR

Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:42 pm

This is a remedy slot awarded to UA pursuant to the UK Competition & Market Authority's May 2020 decision and subsequent public tender.

https://www.gov.uk/cma-cases/investi...ness-agreement

The interim measures which have been imposed effectively extend the terms of the 2010 Commitments for an additional 3 years until March 2024. Airlines currently operating slots on London to Boston, Dallas and Miami routes pursuant to the 2010 commitments will continue to operate these slots for an additional year, until March 2022.

A tender process will take place in March 2022 for these slots for the remaining two years. A tender process will be undertaken this autumn [Fall 2020] in relation to a second slot on the London to Boston route.
 
CALMSP
Posts: 3675
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

Re: UA announces BOS-LHR

Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:08 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
N649DL wrote:
This is insane considering they haven't returned to JFK just yet. UA already failed on this route after 9/11, and it's the last route I would think they would restart at the moment. Back when they did BOS-LHR on a 763 they also had a lot of Widebody service on BOS-LAX/SFO (thus it filtered into it) & also opened a large MX hangar at the time at BOS. Legacy UA actually canned BOS-LHR ahead of EWR-LHR (the latter didn't go until sometime in 2004.) So it's a ballsy move for them and best of luck.

wn676 wrote:

They have 9 gates at BOS.


I actually think UA has 10 gates at BOS. It's essentially it's own concourse. MASSPORT gave them a golden opportunity at the time to consolidate the UA/CO operations under one roof at the time and they went for it.

CALMSP wrote:

no kidding! I avoid EWR-LHR as it is, BOS is gonna be that much shorter! Would really have loved a morning BOS-LHR on the 75.


Really? BOS-LHR is like 30 minutes faster than from EWR. I guess you can beat the line at Burger King for Breakfast in Heathrow, but that's not the point of starting the route up (and it's not going to be a morning flight I'm sure.)


Very unlikely UA will return to JFK-LHR for a few reasons. It does not have the slots at JFK or LHR to do it, it does not have the facilities (premium lounge at JFK, though that could be built out), and it would need frequency to be relevant up against AA/BA and DL/VS. Other than BA, you don't AA or DL/VS operating at EWR for similar reasons. UA adding BOS-LHR is coming at the wrong time and clearly designed to blunt B6's entry into the market. Traffic on the US-LHR corridor will take a while to rebound as it is dependent on business travel and a healthy mix of leisure. And no, BOS-LHR on UA will be a 10PM departure. So, it's not going to be a daylight service and it will be on a high J 767-300ER.



I think we all know when the departure is and what aircraft based on the press release.

as for JFK, while you may say very unlikely, I think many would have said BOS-LHR is also unlikely. UA can make JFK work, there are plenty of slots that are going to go unused for UA for quite a while on the LHR side and I'm confident that they'd be able to find the right timing for JFK as well.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2628
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: UA announces BOS-LHR

Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:30 pm

catiii wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
It's worth pointing out that this route is technically a resumption.

UA flew BOS-LHR with a 772/763 and was discontinued in October 2002. While I see how some are saying the route is simply being launched as a retaliatory measure/due to excess slack in the fleet at present, saying UA has no business on BOS-LHR doesn't entirely make sense. IIRC, they also had plans to fly BOS-FRA before 9/11.


"They already had plans to do this 20 years ago so it makes sense."

Yeah...ok. :rotfl:

They didn't have plans to fly it 20 years ago....they flew it 20 years ago...

I'm not saying the flight makes total sense, and it is quite an interesting/unexpected add, what I am saying is UA is likely somewhat familiar with the market (having flown it before) and it isn't as a wild add as adding say, PHL-LHR.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10432
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: UA announces BOS-LHR

Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:37 pm

tphuang wrote:
I don't know what you mean by that. They have 6 gates at BOS and there just aren't gates available. .

UA's gates at BOS aren't anywhere near full utilization and Intl flights operate from Terminal E anyway where a brand new terminal expansion is taking place. If UA wants to expand intl service from BOS they'll have no problem doing it from terminal E. The LH lounge alone is significantly better than anything UA can offer at terminal B.
N757ST wrote:
[
Have you been to Boston? Connecting from E (which pre Covid was buckling at the seams) to B isn’t exactly quick and easy, and with the high C Gates getting rebuilt I’m not sure the connection exists landslide unless you take a bus or walk through the parking garages.

You may want to update yourself on what's going on at Logan airport. They are building an air-side connector between B and C in order to have all terminals connected post-security.
Currently you can walk from E to B, all indoors albeit landside, and like I said above it's about to get even better when the airside B-to-C connector is complete. It's a bit of a walk but doable.
I just flew thru SLC 2 days ago. The current walk from the security checkpoint to UA's gates were a lot further than anything you'd need to do at BOS. And yes people are complaining about it but guess what, they suck it up.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6637
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: UA announces BOS-LHR

Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:50 pm

airbazar wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I don't know what you mean by that. They have 6 gates at BOS and there just aren't gates available. .

UA's gates at BOS aren't anywhere near full utilization and Intl flights operate from Terminal E anyway where a brand new terminal expansion is taking place. If UA wants to expand intl service from BOS they'll have no problem doing it from terminal E. The LH lounge alone is significantly better than anything UA can offer at terminal B.


The point is that BOS simply doesn't have gates around they can pick up to challenge the new B6/AA partnership. They simply can't do what DL was doing in BOS. It's just not possible. I don't understand why this is such a difficult point to accept.
 
B752OS
Posts: 1329
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:05 am

Re: UA announces BOS-LHR

Sat Feb 20, 2021 4:03 pm

One good thing about the UA setup in Boston, in addition to have a nice new concourse, is that they can accommodate a 763/772/77W/789 without needing to block off any adjacent gates. Up until recently, they were running a 772 on SFO-BOS and use B23. I believe UA has 8 gates to themselves and share 1 gate with AA. There was some reshuffling of gates in B once the expansion project was completed last year. One thing UA has managed to do is keep a very strong position in SFO-BOS, it has to be one of their larger and most important transcons out of SFO. I doubt we'll see UA expand any further in BOS beyond this new LHR flight. BOS is already one of their larger non-hub operations.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4664
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: UA announces BOS-LHR

Sat Feb 20, 2021 4:11 pm

CALMSP wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
N649DL wrote:
This is insane considering they haven't returned to JFK just yet. UA already failed on this route after 9/11, and it's the last route I would think they would restart at the moment. Back when they did BOS-LHR on a 763 they also had a lot of Widebody service on BOS-LAX/SFO (thus it filtered into it) & also opened a large MX hangar at the time at BOS. Legacy UA actually canned BOS-LHR ahead of EWR-LHR (the latter didn't go until sometime in 2004.) So it's a ballsy move for them and best of luck.



I actually think UA has 10 gates at BOS. It's essentially it's own concourse. MASSPORT gave them a golden opportunity at the time to consolidate the UA/CO operations under one roof at the time and they went for it.



Really? BOS-LHR is like 30 minutes faster than from EWR. I guess you can beat the line at Burger King for Breakfast in Heathrow, but that's not the point of starting the route up (and it's not going to be a morning flight I'm sure.)


Very unlikely UA will return to JFK-LHR for a few reasons. It does not have the slots at JFK or LHR to do it, it does not have the facilities (premium lounge at JFK, though that could be built out), and it would need frequency to be relevant up against AA/BA and DL/VS. Other than BA, you don't AA or DL/VS operating at EWR for similar reasons. UA adding BOS-LHR is coming at the wrong time and clearly designed to blunt B6's entry into the market. Traffic on the US-LHR corridor will take a while to rebound as it is dependent on business travel and a healthy mix of leisure. And no, BOS-LHR on UA will be a 10PM departure. So, it's not going to be a daylight service and it will be on a high J 767-300ER.



I think we all know when the departure is and what aircraft based on the press release.

as for JFK, while you may say very unlikely, I think many would have said BOS-LHR is also unlikely. UA can make JFK work, there are plenty of slots that are going to go unused for UA for quite a while on the LHR side and I'm confident that they'd be able to find the right timing for JFK as well.


UA would likely not have jumped into BOS-LHR had it not been for the AA/B6 partnership. UA can't make JFK work so long as they can't get the slots they need and waivers are being extended now and likely to year end. If they can get slots, frequencies, then yes, why not add JFK-LHR. Thanks for the snark. The post I replied to mentioned a daylight and a 752.
 
FGITD
Posts: 1700
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:44 pm

Re: UA announces BOS-LHR

Sat Feb 20, 2021 4:21 pm

In regards to the gate discussion, Massport is fairly strict on making the domestic carriers use their own gates for departures. Anything not precleared must arrive at E, but then tow off to their own terminal. Based on the times listed, the UA flight would definitely be towed to B for departure

That’s disregarding the LCCs that were stuffed into the downtime periods at E, but they were almost entirely very quick turns.
 
CALMSP
Posts: 3675
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

Re: UA announces BOS-LHR

Sat Feb 20, 2021 4:22 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
CALMSP wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:

Very unlikely UA will return to JFK-LHR for a few reasons. It does not have the slots at JFK or LHR to do it, it does not have the facilities (premium lounge at JFK, though that could be built out), and it would need frequency to be relevant up against AA/BA and DL/VS. Other than BA, you don't AA or DL/VS operating at EWR for similar reasons. UA adding BOS-LHR is coming at the wrong time and clearly designed to blunt B6's entry into the market. Traffic on the US-LHR corridor will take a while to rebound as it is dependent on business travel and a healthy mix of leisure. And no, BOS-LHR on UA will be a 10PM departure. So, it's not going to be a daylight service and it will be on a high J 767-300ER.



I think we all know when the departure is and what aircraft based on the press release.

as for JFK, while you may say very unlikely, I think many would have said BOS-LHR is also unlikely. UA can make JFK work, there are plenty of slots that are going to go unused for UA for quite a while on the LHR side and I'm confident that they'd be able to find the right timing for JFK as well.


UA would likely not have jumped into BOS-LHR had it not been for the AA/B6 partnership. UA can't make JFK work so long as they can't get the slots they need and waivers are being extended now and likely to year end. If they can get slots, frequencies, then yes, why not add JFK-LHR. Thanks for the snark. The post I replied to mentioned a daylight and a 752.


not a snark, simply that no one was saying it was going to be a daylight 752, I was simply saying I was hoping it would have been.
 
NWADTWE16
Posts: 746
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:12 am

Re: UA announces BOS-LHR

Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:14 pm

when they have to pay for Carbon, this route gets canned and im willing to bet CO2 charges will be in place globally by end of 2021 if not sooner. Knowing the corporate lean to our oligarchs, it likely wont take place right away, but even an aviation lover has to acknowledge that it should. Cant blame UA here but this is not a green initiative from them, and we all know how they like to teach us how "green" they are in every email to clients, ie the Netzero corporate alliance (2050 is far to late), and the Archer agreement (air mobility company).
 
N757ST
Posts: 1116
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 6:00 am

Re: UA announces BOS-LHR

Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:25 pm

airbazar wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I don't know what you mean by that. They have 6 gates at BOS and there just aren't gates available. .

UA's gates at BOS aren't anywhere near full utilization and Intl flights operate from Terminal E anyway where a brand new terminal expansion is taking place. If UA wants to expand intl service from BOS they'll have no problem doing it from terminal E. The LH lounge alone is significantly better than anything UA can offer at terminal B.
N757ST wrote:
[
Have you been to Boston? Connecting from E (which pre Covid was buckling at the seams) to B isn’t exactly quick and easy, and with the high C Gates getting rebuilt I’m not sure the connection exists landslide unless you take a bus or walk through the parking garages.

You may want to update yourself on what's going on at Logan airport. They are building an air-side connector between B and C in order to have all terminals connected post-security.
Currently you can walk from E to B, all indoors albeit landside, and like I said above it's about to get even better when the airside B-to-C connector is complete. It's a bit of a walk but doable.
I just flew thru SLC 2 days ago. The current walk from the security checkpoint to UA's gates were a lot further than anything you'd need to do at BOS. And yes people are complaining about it but guess what, they suck it up.


Yeah, was based in Boston for years and currently go through Boston at least twice a month. They are rebuilding the high c gates (41,42,43) to build that connector airside from C to B, while that construction happens I’m not sure if the landslide connection exists. Once that connector does get built, it’s still a hike from E to B but it’s a lot more manageable then now which involves lugging your roll aboard through the landslide connections to recheck at United, and if the landslide connection doesn’t exist due to construction then you’re heading through the garage.
 
catiii
Posts: 3889
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: UA announces BOS-LHR

Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:27 pm

USAirALB wrote:
catiii wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
It's worth pointing out that this route is technically a resumption.

UA flew BOS-LHR with a 772/763 and was discontinued in October 2002. While I see how some are saying the route is simply being launched as a retaliatory measure/due to excess slack in the fleet at present, saying UA has no business on BOS-LHR doesn't entirely make sense. IIRC, they also had plans to fly BOS-FRA before 9/11.


"They already had plans to do this 20 years ago so it makes sense."

Yeah...ok. :rotfl:

They didn't have plans to fly it 20 years ago....they flew it 20 years ago...

I'm not saying the flight makes total sense, and it is quite an interesting/unexpected add, what I am saying is UA is likely somewhat familiar with the market (having flown it before) and it isn't as a wild add as adding say, PHL-LHR.


What are the similarities in the market and industry from 20 years ago to today that would make it “familiar?”
 
Humberside
Posts: 3241
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:44 am

Re: UA announces BOS-LHR

Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:16 pm

This isn't about preserving LHR slots this Summer - the UK has a full slot waiver for Summer 2021. Theoretically UA could operate nothing to LHR and keep all their slots (as long as they are made available for temporary reallocation until wanted back)
https://www.acl-uk.org/news/summer-waiver-announcement/

The rules being talked about earlier in this thread are I believe the EU rules for this Summer, which do not apply to the UK any more
 
minilinde
Posts: 267
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:16 am

Re: UA announces BOS-LHR

Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:38 pm

jayunited wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
This is an EWR slot I’m assuming?



I think you could be right pre-COVID UA was slated to increase EWR-LHR to 6x daily we are not going to need 6x daily service out of EWR for quite some time. And although the 80/20 use it or loose rule has been waive for 2021, I think (and I could be wrong) airlines will be required to utilize at least 50% of their slots this upcoming summer season. Even though it is going to take a while for business traffic to recover there is no way United will either willingly or otherwise give away slots at LHR they simply to valuable. So if United has to operate BOS-LHR to get us across that 50% threshold then I'm guessing that is what we are going to do.

However long term I don't see this route hanging around I see this as temporary until New York City and UA at EWR are back up and running at full steam.


The EU has loosened the slots rules to 50/50 (instead of 80/20), and you can return 50% of slots upfront. But as the UK is not apart of the EU, they can choose their own slot alleviation rules and have. They have prolonged the W20 slot rules into S21. Meaning that a airline will get the slot returned in S22, if cancelled at least 3 weeks in advance. So basically you can as an airline in the UK cancel however many slots you would like in S21, as long as you do it in time.
 
FlyGuy27
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:58 pm

Re: UA announces BOS-LHR

Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:39 pm

Not following all the screaming / yelling / whining on this thread. United has a decent following (including corporate contracts) in Boston, a great setup (including a United Club) and certainly an available *A pool of flyers in London. The 76J has 163(?) seats - with LHR yields, they can do decently well. I think it’s smart.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26648
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: UA announces BOS-LHR

Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:46 pm

BOSLHR is a super quick flight. Easy way to waste an LHR slot it might be required to use. The plane will be empty but at least it’ll only be empty for five hours from Boston instead of seven from Chicago.

It’ll last a year max.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15270
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: UA announces BOS-LHR

Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:11 pm

N757ST wrote:
airbazar wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I don't know what you mean by that. They have 6 gates at BOS and there just aren't gates available. .

UA's gates at BOS aren't anywhere near full utilization and Intl flights operate from Terminal E anyway where a brand new terminal expansion is taking place. If UA wants to expand intl service from BOS they'll have no problem doing it from terminal E. The LH lounge alone is significantly better than anything UA can offer at terminal B.
N757ST wrote:
[
Have you been to Boston? Connecting from E (which pre Covid was buckling at the seams) to B isn’t exactly quick and easy, and with the high C Gates getting rebuilt I’m not sure the connection exists landslide unless you take a bus or walk through the parking garages.

You may want to update yourself on what's going on at Logan airport. They are building an air-side connector between B and C in order to have all terminals connected post-security.
Currently you can walk from E to B, all indoors albeit landside, and like I said above it's about to get even better when the airside B-to-C connector is complete. It's a bit of a walk but doable.
I just flew thru SLC 2 days ago. The current walk from the security checkpoint to UA's gates were a lot further than anything you'd need to do at BOS. And yes people are complaining about it but guess what, they suck it up.


Yeah, was based in Boston for years and currently go through Boston at least twice a month. They are rebuilding the high c gates (41,42,43) to build that connector airside from C to B, while that construction happens I’m not sure if the landslide connection exists. Once that connector does get built, it’s still a hike from E to B but it’s a lot more manageable then now which involves lugging your roll aboard through the landslide connections to recheck at United, and if the landslide connection doesn’t exist due to construction then you’re heading through the garage.


Who would be connecting on or off this flight, though? Eastbound the flight is approaching transcon length (albeit across a couple more time zones) and does not allow a meaningfully later departure from any city with UA service to BOS. I suppose the very late departure from LHR might appeal to some passengers but they are likely looking at an overnight connection in BOS.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10432
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: UA announces BOS-LHR

Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:17 pm

tphuang wrote:
airbazar wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I don't know what you mean by that. They have 6 gates at BOS and there just aren't gates available. .

UA's gates at BOS aren't anywhere near full utilization and Intl flights operate from Terminal E anyway where a brand new terminal expansion is taking place. If UA wants to expand intl service from BOS they'll have no problem doing it from terminal E. The LH lounge alone is significantly better than anything UA can offer at terminal B.


The point is that BOS simply doesn't have gates around they can pick up to challenge the new B6/AA partnership. They simply can't do what DL was doing in BOS. It's just not possible. I don't understand why this is such a difficult point to accept.


Sorry, didn't realize that was the context. BOS is not even a focus city for UA, why would they even want to challenge anyone? BOS will be just a spoke off of their LHR hub just like it is a spoke off of their other hubs. This has nothing to do with B6/AA. It's only 56 economy seats which tells me they are doing this for the corporate contracts and FFs, and have little interest in chasing the leisure flier.

MAH4546 wrote:
BOSLHR is a super quick flight. Easy way to waste an LHR slot it might be required to use. The plane will be empty but at least it’ll only be empty for five hours from Boston instead of seven from Chicago.

It’ll last a year max.


While I do take any new route announcements in the current environment with a very large grain of salt, I think this route has a fair shot at staying.
As I pointed out above, this would be just another spoke off of their LHR hub, and a short one at that. I feel that this route is incredibly valuable for the A++ alliance. This would give the A++ alliance a tremendous boost from Boston, connecting all the major business cities in Europe: London, Frankfurt, Munich, Zurich.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3847
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: UA announces BOS-LHR

Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:32 pm

bevan7 wrote:
Could this be one of those slots BA have to give up if a new entrant enters this market?


If it was one of the BA slots it would have gone to B6 not UA. UA is not a new entrant at LHR. hey go to new entrants, not new cities.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3847
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: UA announces BOS-LHR

Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:38 pm

FlyGuy27 wrote:
Not following all the screaming / yelling / whining on this thread. United has a decent following (including corporate contracts) in Boston, a great setup (including a United Club) and certainly an available *A pool of flyers in London. The 76J has 163(?) seats - with LHR yields, they can do decently well. I think it’s smart.


Even if it does not fill now they have A321xlr's on order that they can switch to when they come online. At that point they have already built talk about their service on the route. Also London has enough demand to spread around to several carriers.
 
Tack
Posts: 217
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:13 pm

Re: UA announces BOS-LHR

Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:43 pm

airbazar wrote:
While I do take any new route announcements in the current environment with a very large grain of salt, I think this route has a fair shot at staying.
As I pointed out above, this would be just another spoke off of their LHR hub, and a short one at that. I feel that this route is incredibly valuable for the A++ alliance. This would give the A++ alliance a tremendous boost from Boston, connecting all the major business cities in Europe: London, Frankfurt, Munich, Zurich.


I agree, this move might be slightly directed at B6 for EWR, but I'd speculate that it is more to fill a gap in *A. Anyone that has to use air travel to make a living, relies on one, sometimes more, of the 3 Alliances to meet all or as much of their flying needs as possible. There just aren't that many 'free agents' out there that travel for business. I guarantee UA will find enough *A frequent flyers in BOS that this one flight has a good chance to last. As stated above, every move that is made by carriers in the NE, as much as B6 fans want to believe, isn't a counter move against B6. B6 is a fine national airline, and their AA partnership means they'll get some of my flying dollars that they never had a chance at before. But they aren't an 800 pound gorilla.
 
GmoneyCO
Posts: 227
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:42 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread, Q1 2021

Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:49 pm

Bad day for UA today. Two in-flight engine failures.

N772UA suffered a serious right engine failure shortly after take off from DEN to HNL (flight 328) earlier this afternoon. The engine cowling and other large pieces of the engine came off and landed on the ground just west of DEN. The plane safely diverted back to DEN, no injuries reported. Great job by the crew on handling the issue.

This aircraft will be on the ground in DEN for quite some time while it undergoes a major engine repair or an engine change if they have a spare available in DEN or one that they can ship in.


N77538 suffered a right engine failure going from CUN to IAH today as flight 1832 and re-routed to MSY. Expect that it will be on the ground at MSY for a prolonged period while they investigate what happened since it had been grounded in CUN due to a separate hydraulics issue and this was its first flight after being repaired.

Flight 328 Thread: https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1458015

Flight 1832/N77538 Thread: https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1458009
 
jayunited
Posts: 3595
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread, Q1 2021

Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:50 pm

GmoneyCO wrote:
Bad day for UA today. Two in-flight engine failures.

N772UA suffered a serious right engine failure shortly after take off from DEN to HNL (flight 328) earlier this afternoon. The engine cowling and other large pieces of the engine came off and landed on the ground just west of DEN. The plane safely diverted back to DEN, no injuries reported. Great job by the crew on handling the issue.

This aircraft will be on the ground in DEN for quite some time while it undergoes a major engine repair or an engine change if they have a spare available in DEN or one that they can ship in.


N77538 suffered a right engine failure going from CUN to IAH today as flight 1832 and re-routed to MSY. Expect that it will be on the ground at MSY for a prolonged period while they investigate what happened since it had been grounded in CUN due to a separate hydraulics issue and this was its first flight after being repaired.

Flight 328 Thread: https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1458015

Flight 1832/N77538 Thread: https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1458009


There is a difference between an engine failure and the captain shutting down an engine in flight. CUN-IAH was not an engine failure the captain shut down the engine in flight the final report is not out yet but presumable it is probably related to the hydraulic issue that forced the aircraft to divert to CUN 2 days ago.

A controlled shut down and an abrupt total un-contained engine failure are to different things.

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