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janders
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United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - Q1 2021

Fri Jan 01, 2021 5:52 pm

Welcome to the United Fleet, Network and Discussion thread for 2021.

Please continue below

Link to previous edition > viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1437915
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
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adamblang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 01, 2021 7:01 pm

December recaps from the 2020 thread:

  • GmoneyCO is tracking 737 MAX movements. Boeing is delivering their backlog at a fast and furious pace. United is pulling the already-delivered frames out of the desert for maintenance and return to service.
  • ericm2031 says the February schedule will be out Jan 6th.
  • Ex-EasyJet and ex-Vueling Airbuses keep arriving. As far as jayunited can tell, ex-Vueling jets will be parted out while many of the ex-EasyJet jets will eventually be placed into service.
  • Would United launch another India flight. Would Vistara join Star Alliance? Would Air India let them? Is too much made of how United and Singapore cooperate and compete? None of us have a way to know but that won't stop us from discussing it through the coming year.

As always, the answers to most questions are already documented in the United fleet tracking Google doc.
 
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cosyr
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:52 pm

cosyr wrote:
Anyone care to make any fleet predictions for 2021?


intotheair wrote:
I reckon we'll see at least some more firmed up plans to retire aircraft. UA hasn't followed AA/DL yet with sweeping retirement announcements, but the truth is that the fleet is probably too large for the near-term future, even with long-term growth goals. I bet those 764s don't come back.


Ultimately, with the 787's UA has coming, I agree, though I'm always sad to see any 767's go, because they are my first choice for transatlantic/S America. I could see DL having an interest in the 764's, given that they are drawing down their 763's, and have 330NEO's on order for the longer routes that the 764 can't make.

intotheair wrote:
Also, is there a 2021 thread yet?

The old thread was locked without a link to the new one. Moderators: Could that be added?
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:58 pm

intotheair wrote:
I reckon we'll see at least some more firmed up plans to retire aircraft. UA hasn't followed AA/DL yet with sweeping retirement announcements, but the truth is that the fleet is probably too large for the near-term future, even with long-term growth goals. I bet those 764s don't come back.


I agree the 764s will probably not return to service but I don't see management in any rush to officially retire those aircraft. I also think the 12 nonER 739s are finished, that is just my opinion it is not a rumor and I have not seen any official fleet plans yet but with so many MAXs being delivered I personally don't see the nonER 739s returning to service.

I think UA will hold off on any major sweeping retirement announcements until at least the middle to the end of Q3 2021. In my opinion Kirby does not want UA on the other side of this pandemic to be at a disadvantage (fleet wise) like we were pre-pandemic compared to AA and DL. While Q2 and Q3 of 2021 should be better than Q2 and Q3 2020, the real recovery for United will not begin until probably Q4 2021. However that is only if the US and other countries can really ramp up production and distribution of the vaccines and if people are willing to take them.

Until management can get a clearer picture as to how this recovery will play out I think whatever aircraft we don't need outside of the nonER 739s (those are probably done) in 2021 will simply remain in long term storage but on the books for most of 2021.
 
VC10er
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:34 pm

How many more 787’s does United have coming? And which size?

Oh, and I hope some of the MAX’s replace some 738’s!

Time certainly does have a strange way of passing!
I recall my “ex flying up to EWR from Brazil on a 764, and she was brand new, longer, new genius wing tips, etc, and I was jealous because I wanted to fly it SO BADLY...and he couldn’t care less about airplanes! So unfair! And that seems like just a few years ago! But I’m thinking that was about 1999?
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
xxcr
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:16 pm

I'm curious to see if UA will keep the 764's and retrofit them with the new Polaris and PE seats. Those planes are extremely comfortable, and this would be their chance to modernize that plane.
 
CALMSP
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:50 pm

xxcr wrote:
I'm curious to see if UA will keep the 764's and retrofit them with the new Polaris and PE seats. Those planes are extremely comfortable, and this would be their chance to modernize that plane.


I sure hope so, my favorite wide body (although the 762 was my original).
 
Tiredofhumanity
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 12:17 am

jayunited wrote:
intotheair wrote:
I reckon we'll see at least some more firmed up plans to retire aircraft. UA hasn't followed AA/DL yet with sweeping retirement announcements, but the truth is that the fleet is probably too large for the near-term future, even with long-term growth goals. I bet those 764s don't come back.


I agree the 764s will probably not return to service but I don't see management in any rush to officially retire those aircraft. I also think the 12 nonER 739s are finished, that is just my opinion it is not a rumor and I have not seen any official fleet plans yet but with so many MAXs being delivered I personally don't see the nonER 739s returning to service.

I think UA will hold off on any major sweeping retirement announcements until at least the middle to the end of Q3 2021. In my opinion Kirby does not want UA on the other side of this pandemic to be at a disadvantage (fleet wise) like we were pre-pandemic compared to AA and DL. While Q2 and Q3 of 2021 should be better than Q2 and Q3 2020, the real recovery for United will not begin until probably Q4 2021. However that is only if the US and other countries can really ramp up production and distribution of the vaccines and if people are willing to take them.

Until management can get a clearer picture as to how this recovery will play out I think whatever aircraft we don't need outside of the nonER 739s (those are probably done) in 2021 will simply remain in long term storage but on the books for most of 2021.


The ones I'm really praying for are the 763's, especially the 98-03 builds. :pray:
 
UAinAUS
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:20 am

Copying my post from another website with some details and pseudo-predictions. Happy New Year everyone!!

In 2020:
2x 77Ws delivered
772ER Polaris/PP modifications completed but for 1 frame
772ER Domestic conversion – only 1 frame completed (other 3 parked)
2x 78Js delivered
10x 789s delivered
788 Polaris/PE mods continued slowly – 5 frames remain
789 Polaris/PE mods remain on hold
763 Hi-J Polaris/PP mods completed (17 frames)
Entire 28-J 752 fleet retired (13 frames)
752 slimline mods on hold
7M9 fleet deliveries began again – 8 so far
1x A320 retired (leased to FlyBosnia)
319 New First cabin layout completed (except 4 frames in storage)
7x New “used” A319 delivered
New livery mods continued but are now on hold

107 ER4s were removed from the fleet
31 CR2s were added to the fleet
18 CR5s were added to the fleet
20 CR7s were removed from the fleet
16 E175SCs were added to the fleet


Jan 2021 United Fleet & 2021 Outlook:

A319 fleet: 76 total in service – remaining used China Southern fleet to enter service in 2021, used EasyJet fleet to begin entering service in 2021

A320 fleet: 96 total – minimal changes expected

73G fleet: 40 total in service – some used frames from WN to enter service in 2021

738 fleet: 141 total – no changes anticipated

739 fleet: 148 total – no changes anticipated

7M9 fleet: deliveries began again – 22 total today, expect 30 frames by end of 2021

7M8 and 7MJ: some mix of frames will likely be delivered in 2021. My bet is approximately 10 Max-8, with the Max-10 further delayed.

752 fleet: 40 total – slimline mods may continue if capex allows

753 fleet: 21 total – no changes anticipated

763 fleet: 38 total – 17x 46J/PP, 14x 30J, 7 in old config. Unsure on future configuration plans

764 fleet: 16 total – Fleet entirely parked. Future uncertain.

772 fleet: 19 total - domestic config, no changes anticipated

77E fleet: 55 total – 50 in Polaris/PP config; 1 in 32F domestic config, 4 not yet converted

77W fleet: 22 total – all with Polaris/PP, no changes anticipated

788 fleet: 12 total - Polaris/PP modification to complete in 2021

789 fleet: 35 total - Polaris/PP modification on hold (12 in new config), 3 deliveries expected in early 2021

78J fleet: 13 total - all with Polaris and PP, 8 deliveries expected in 2021

CRJ-200 fleet: 194 Total (64 Air Wisconsin, 130 SkyWest) plus 12 floaters – Expect more deliveries in New Livery, plus the start of retirements of older frames in 2021

CRJ-550 fleet: 37 total (all GoJet) – fate of this fleet will depend on GoJet’s sustainability, but expect more CR5s to enter the fleet in 2021 with GoJet or another operator

CRJ-700 fleet: 27 total (19 SkyWest, 8 Mesa) – Remaining Mesa frames to be removed as E175SCs enter service. 20 retired Mesa frames likely candidates for CR5 conversion

E170 fleet: 38 total (all Republic) - no changes anticipated

E175SC fleet: 41 total (25 SkyWest, 16 Mesa) – 4 deliveries to Mesa in early 2021

E175 fleet: 153 total (65 SkyWest, 60 Mesa, 28 Republic) – currently all in 70-seat configuration due to scope clause, will revert to 76-seats when contract allows

ERJ-145 fleet: 50 total (all CommutAir) – anticipate parked frames from ExpressJet and Trans States to continue to transfer to CommutAir in 2021. Likely around 70 total frames by year-end.

** note some of these UAX fleet numbers differ from the UA fleet plan because I have included all frames where UA does not include pro-rate contract planes
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:43 am

Tiredofhumanity wrote:
The ones I'm really praying for are the 763's, especially the 98-03 builds. :pray:


Is there any reason in particular you are praying for those frames?

Perhaps I am misinterpreting your post but United has already stated the 763s are not going anywhere.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:55 am

VC10er wrote:
How many more 787’s does United have coming? And which size?

Oh, and I hope some of the MAX’s replace some 738’s!


United's 738s range in age from 21 years to 3 years old, and are by no means United oldest narrowbody that honor goes to a few of our A320s.

I will admit some of the 738 first class seats are in bad shape, United was supposed to update the interior of the oldest frames after the A320/19 fleet was finished.

Hopefully at some point in 2022 UA will get around to the refurbishing the interiors of our oldest 738s but I don't think a single 738 should be retired.
 
SunsetLimited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:18 am

Does anyone know when the February schedule will be finalized and loaded?
Spread hope like fire.
 
GmoneyCO
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:33 am

738:
N73275 - Will be out of service for a while in SJO. Exited the runway on landing with damage to both engines, landing gear and fuselage. Thankfully no injuries.
 
VC10er
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:19 am

jayunited wrote:
VC10er wrote:
How many more 787’s does United have coming? And which size?

Oh, and I hope some of the MAX’s replace some 738’s!


United's 738s range in age from 21 years to 3 years old, and are by no means United oldest narrowbody that honor goes to a few of our A320s.

I will admit some of the 738 first class seats are in bad shape, United was supposed to update the interior of the oldest frames after the A320/19 fleet was finished.

Hopefully at some point in 2022 UA will get around to the refurbishing the interiors of our oldest 738s but I don't think a single 738 should be retired.


Thanks!!! That is interesting, some 738s were factory fresh deliveries? United’s 738s are my least favorite airframe. Why? They are kind of silly reasons; I fly a lot with United (a whole lot!) so I do find myself upfront...and shame on me for complaining about anything, I know that I’m very fortunate to almost always be in First. But given the enormous amount of 738s, I just find those F seats and cabins to be so inferior vs the Airbus fleet (especially the new “used” Airbuses with the whole newly designed
Interiors and seats) currently they look and feel very old even if spotlessly clean. Although I understand now is not the time to put the new F seat in both the 738 & 739 (although the 739 has a nice seat even if they aren’t consistent and up to date with the “brand new look and smell of United’s new interiors)

I am curious why the 738 & 739 have different seats, were they not both delivered to CO over the same span of years?

Last, as I am very rarely on Delta and AA, do they have about the same mix of old and new (Eg; inconsistent interiors) flying side by side?

Thanks again!
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
randomdude83
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 7:38 am

In everyone's opinion, is it costing more or less to keep all the old wide body aircraft types stored? American and Delta took the opportunity to shed some wide body aircraft types away for efficiency.

I'm curious why United is holding on to a large old fleet of 772s/763s/764s?

I understand the simple answer of waiting to see how the market will be after the vaccine but what is the bet here? that traffic levels will go back to pre 2019 and united will have the fleet for it? is that realistic really? isn't it obvious by now that it'll take a few years? so will united keep paying storage fees for almost 100 wide bodies it can't use?
 
MIflyer12
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:15 pm

randomdude83 wrote:
I'm curious why United is holding on to a large old fleet of 772s/763s/764s?


Common pilot type ratings. UA has a large fleet of 772; if they keep the 77Ws (and of course they will), they may as well keep 772s. Same thing with 757/753/767/764.

AA dumped all its 757s and 767s and eliminated a pilot work group.

You can't even imagine the disruption (to pilot labor, to the balance sheet) if you really think UA has a hundred too many widebodies for the demand of summer 2023.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:22 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
randomdude83 wrote:
I'm curious why United is holding on to a large old fleet of 772s/763s/764s?


Common pilot type ratings. UA has a large fleet of 772; if they keep the 77Ws (and of course they will), they may as well keep 772s. Same thing with 757/753/767/764.

AA dumped all its 757s and 767s and eliminated a pilot work group.

You can't even imagine the disruption (to pilot labor, to the balance sheet) if you really think UA has a hundred too many widebodies for the demand of summer 2023.


The common ratings are indeed a major factor in UA appearing to hold off on retiring a single (or more) fleet types, though I wonder what the future of the 767-400ER fleet holds, the longer they remain in long-term storage. All 16 frames feature the pre-Polaris business class cabin (though the economy cabin was refreshed a while back with leather seats). The 767-400s are the backbone of the seasonal up gauges and capacity adjustments for mostly the TATL market. It would seem these planes are likely to remain parked and bundled up for another year or more. They're not that old, having been delivered new to CO between 1999 and 2002, but right now, it doesn't appear they're needed.
 
FlyPNS1
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:48 pm

jayunited wrote:
intotheair wrote:
I reckon we'll see at least some more firmed up plans to retire aircraft. UA hasn't followed AA/DL yet with sweeping retirement announcements, but the truth is that the fleet is probably too large for the near-term future, even with long-term growth goals. I bet those 764s don't come back.


I think UA will hold off on any major sweeping retirement announcements until at least the middle to the end of Q3 2021. In my opinion Kirby does not want UA on the other side of this pandemic to be at a disadvantage (fleet wise) like we were pre-pandemic compared to AA and DL. While Q2 and Q3 of 2021 should be better than Q2 and Q3 2020, the real recovery for United will not begin until probably Q4 2021. However that is only if the US and other countries can really ramp up production and distribution of the vaccines and if people are willing to take them.

Until management can get a clearer picture as to how this recovery will play out I think whatever aircraft we don't need outside of the nonER 739s (those are probably done) in 2021 will simply remain in long term storage but on the books for most of 2021.


If there’s any silver lining for UA in this pandemic, it’s that UA can leverage it to close the narrow body gap with DL and AA. As demand returns, UA could finally catch up and have a narrow body fleet that is more appropriately gauged to its network and provide a better CASM.
 
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jetblastdubai
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:58 pm

UAinAUS wrote:

E175 fleet: 153 total (65 SkyWest, 60 Mesa, 28 Republic) – currently all in 70-seat configuration due to scope clause, will revert to 76-seats when contract allows



United is spending money taking seats out of A/C which makes them potentially less productive just to comply with scope.

Is there any point at which United and/or ALPA simply agree to just let mainline crews fly some E175s (in a 76-seat configuration)? Do the additional costs associated with mainline crews (flight deck, cabin, training and ground etc.) offset the costs to reconfigure perfectly good aircraft in the long run?

I'm well aware of the "new narrowbody" clause that would release more 76-seat flying but probably the last thing any airline needs now is the introduction of a new variant in their fleet when they still have similar-sized A/C parked.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 7:04 pm

jetblastdubai wrote:
UAinAUS wrote:

E175 fleet: 153 total (65 SkyWest, 60 Mesa, 28 Republic) – currently all in 70-seat configuration due to scope clause, will revert to 76-seats when contract allows



United is spending money taking seats out of A/C which makes them potentially less productive just to comply with scope.

Is there any point at which United and/or ALPA simply agree to just let mainline crews fly some E175s (in a 76-seat configuration)? Do the additional costs associated with mainline crews (flight deck, cabin, training and ground etc.) offset the costs to reconfigure perfectly good aircraft in the long run?

I'm well aware of the "new narrowbody" clause that would release more 76-seat flying but probably the last thing any airline needs now is the introduction of a new variant in their fleet when they still have similar-sized A/C parked.


If they fly one, they fly them all.
 
mjba257
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 7:49 pm

Predictions for 2021:
- Demand will increase faster and larger than expected. The COVID vaccine, combined with the fact that people just are simply not as scared as they were when the pandemic first began.
- More international expansion out of ORD. With OZ leaving Star Alliance, it is possible UA starts an ORD-ICN flight, as well as an EWR-ICN flight. Both are high-yielding TPAC routes that UA does not fly its metal on. Plus, with more 787's on the way, I can even foresee ORD-KIX, ORD-NGO, and even ORD-SYD and ORD-SIN. Both routes are possible with 787s. Of course, i don't expect that to happen this year, but in the near future (next 5 years)
- More East Coast-SFO routes, like UA was doing prior to the pandemic. I can see SFO-CMH, SFO-SDF, SFO-BHM, SFO-CLT, SFO-RIC, SFO-BUF, SFO-CHS
 
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AVENSAB727
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:34 pm

mjba257 wrote:
Predictions for 2021:
- Demand will increase faster and larger than expected. The COVID vaccine, combined with the fact that people just are simply not as scared as they were when the pandemic first began.
- More international expansion out of ORD. With OZ leaving Star Alliance, it is possible UA starts an ORD-ICN flight, as well as an EWR-ICN flight. Both are high-yielding TPAC routes that UA does not fly its metal on. Plus, with more 787's on the way, I can even foresee ORD-KIX, ORD-NGO, and even ORD-SYD and ORD-SIN. Both routes are possible with 787s. Of course, i don't expect that to happen this year, but in the near future (next 5 years)
- More East Coast-SFO routes, like UA was doing prior to the pandemic. I can see SFO-CMH, SFO-SDF, SFO-BHM, SFO-CLT, SFO-RIC, SFO-BUF, SFO-CHS

More likely scenario, for international route additions, will be the resumption of IAH-SYD, ORD-ZRH/TLV and most of the other TPACS out of SFO. I do believe, with the vaccine out, demand will begin to bounce back.
Always look on the bright side of Life!
 
avi8
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 9:07 pm

I also believe IAH will get more love, considering how it out preformed the other hubs with DEN and how relatively stable the economy is in Texas compared to other states.
avi8
 
CFBFrame
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 9:13 pm

I find it interesting that the airlines are not using their time to look at their operations and determining a more nimble future? After reading the EK interview and John Leahy's comments about the A380 and engines, I find it interesting that airlines are not speaking with their customers to define future needs in a better and different way. Leahy said that customers could be talked in to using hub and spoke and not point to point? Really? For United, it seems to moving to a model which is customer focused and frame right sized post COVID makes so much sense. And, to use this change period to get Airbus and Boeing to produce aircraft focused on that new model will put the company in the driver seat for a more interesting future? Cut the fleet where needs define, change the staff to support the correct fleet, and use the overall loss of revenue to place yourself in a winning position. Get with Boeing and Airbus, define a migration strategy allowing you to pull things out of service as your strategy gets more defined. This is the best time to define needs. Don't waste it by trying to re-introduce the crap that Leahy and EK are trying to sell customers. If I don't have to stand in another immigration room with 4 A380s, and 4 777Ws arriving while I'm coming from Canada on a A319, and getting out just in time to run to my connection, I will be far more happy with my life. Make the industry to meet the needs of your most important revenue source, customers and we will fly the hell out of it.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 9:15 pm

This years focus will certainly be on IAH and DEN. SFO will most likely continue to be cut back and the same is probably true for IAD. The two probably won’t get above 70% of pre-Covid levels. Now in my opinion it gets interesting when looking at EWR, LAX, and ORD. ORD certainly won’t be going anywhere anytime soon but I feel like a lot of the flying done from ORD can be done via DEN. UA isn’t giving up on LAX. This year I certainly see LHR coming back. LAX-TLV wouldn’t surprise me either. Lastly, for EWR, I really do wonder if we will see the demand shift from JFK to EWR like some others have highlighted. If this holds to be true, it could be very beneficial for UA.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:09 pm

AVENSAB727 wrote:
mjba257 wrote:
Predictions for 2021:
- Demand will increase faster and larger than expected. The COVID vaccine, combined with the fact that people just are simply not as scared as they were when the pandemic first began.
- More international expansion out of ORD. With OZ leaving Star Alliance, it is possible UA starts an ORD-ICN flight, as well as an EWR-ICN flight. Both are high-yielding TPAC routes that UA does not fly its metal on. Plus, with more 787's on the way, I can even foresee ORD-KIX, ORD-NGO, and even ORD-SYD and ORD-SIN. Both routes are possible with 787s. Of course, i don't expect that to happen this year, but in the near future (next 5 years)
- More East Coast-SFO routes, like UA was doing prior to the pandemic. I can see SFO-CMH, SFO-SDF, SFO-BHM, SFO-CLT, SFO-RIC, SFO-BUF, SFO-CHS

More likely scenario, for international route additions, will be the resumption of IAH-SYD, ORD-ZRH/TLV and most of the other TPACS out of SFO. I do believe, with the vaccine out, demand will begin to bounce back.


It is very unlikely that IAH-SYD will resume this year as the Australian border will remain closed at least until the second half of the year. October/November seems like the best guess for reopening at this stage, but there have been no definitive statements.

I guess there could be a surge in demand to Australia over winter 2021/22, but IMHO its more likely that ULH demand won’t fully return right away. I really doubt that we will see Australia-US demand fully return to 2019 levels until winter 2022/23.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
CWL757
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:32 pm

Sorry if this was discussed in the last thread, but I'm curious about the Easyjet A319s joining UA, The EZY frames are CFM whereas UA use IAE. surely introducing a new engine type, especially during COVID doesn't make much sense? I know the 738s use CFM too but is there really that much of a similarity between them?
A319, A320, 738, 743, 744, 752, 772, 788, C150, E175, E190, F70, R22
 
GmoneyCO
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:14 am

jetblastdubai wrote:
UAinAUS wrote:

E175 fleet: 153 total (65 SkyWest, 60 Mesa, 28 Republic) – currently all in 70-seat configuration due to scope clause, will revert to 76-seats when contract allows



United is spending money taking seats out of A/C which makes them potentially less productive just to comply with scope.

Is there any point at which United and/or ALPA simply agree to just let mainline crews fly some E175s (in a 76-seat configuration)? Do the additional costs associated with mainline crews (flight deck, cabin, training and ground etc.) offset the costs to reconfigure perfectly good aircraft in the long run?

I'm well aware of the "new narrowbody" clause that would release more 76-seat flying but probably the last thing any airline needs now is the introduction of a new variant in their fleet when they still have similar-sized A/C parked.


The costs that you are describing to downsize the 76 seat aircraft to 70 seats to meet the scope requirements are very minimal, it involves removing 1.5 rows of seats at the back of the plane, nothing more. UA is not repositioning the other seats on the aircraft, just leaving the empty space there.

Also, all of the 76 --> 70 seat mods that are occurring have already been completed.
 
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ADent
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Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:36 am

No problem putting UA pilots in the RJs. Just not going to happen.
- Crew costs are higher
- UA proper would have to add ERJ175 to its operating certificate.
Develop flight Ops procedures, maintenance plans, etc.
Train FAs and pilots and mechanics. Update dispatch SW. Spare parts.

Lots of costs to fly a plane your brand is already flying, but now more expensively.

Would be better off picking up more A319/737-700 or going A220-300.
 
LGeneReese
Posts: 310
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:36 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:04 am

CWL757 wrote:
Sorry if this was discussed in the last thread, but I'm curious about the Easyjet A319s joining UA, The EZY frames are CFM whereas UA use IAE. surely introducing a new engine type, especially during COVID doesn't make much sense? I know the 738s use CFM too but is there really that much of a similarity between them?

The deal was made before Covid showed up obviously but UA determined the engine would not be a problem. The deal was for 20 aircraft so the economy of scale apparently applied. I don’t recall the details but the two CFM56 subtypes do have a good number of differences. The aircraft so far delivered have just been parked...and most likely remain so for the time being. It will be interesting to see how this will sort out in the end.
Formerly IAHCSR
 
LGeneReese
Posts: 310
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:36 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:09 am

GmoneyCO wrote:
jetblastdubai wrote:
UAinAUS wrote:

E175 fleet: 153 total (65 SkyWest, 60 Mesa, 28 Republic) – currently all in 70-seat configuration due to scope clause, will revert to 76-seats when contract allows



Mesa very recently took delivery of 20 additional UA E175s to their total should now be 80.
Formerly IAHCSR
 
UAinAUS
Posts: 291
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:11 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:10 am

LGeneReese wrote:
GmoneyCO wrote:
jetblastdubai wrote:


Mesa very recently took delivery of 20 additional UA E175s to their total should now be 80.


Those new ones are E175SCs. 16 of the 20 delivered so far. Listed under the E175SC title.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6352
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:06 pm

Yeah IAH-SYD won’t be back for a long time.

What I’m more interested in would be the resumption or addition of more domestic routes from IAH like GRR and BDL.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
EssentialBusDC
Posts: 194
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:06 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:13 pm

ADent wrote:
No problem putting UA pilots in the RJs. Just not going to happen.
- Crew costs are higher
- UA proper would have to add ERJ175 to its operating certificate.
Develop flight Ops procedures, maintenance plans, etc.
Train FAs and pilots and mechanics. Update dispatch SW. Spare parts.

Lots of costs to fly a plane your brand is already flying, but now more expensively.

Would be better off picking up more A319/737-700 or going A220-300.


Yes there would be costs. But there are also benefits of mainline flying the 170/175:

No scope restrictions. So no limit on the number of aircraft, no artificial seat limit (most likely would be a 80+ seat configuration for the 175), no 86,000 lb weight limit (hello E2!), no route or block hour restrictions either, no paying a third party a guaranteed profit margin, no more labor disputes over the issue.

One has to consider both sides of the equation to determine if it makes business sense. So far United has said it doesn’t. IMO it is primarily due to the issue of trying to get a weakening of the scope clause and allow the 90 seaters to be flown at Express. But once 70 seaters+ are flown at mainline, that potential would be impossible. So United holds out, hoping that someday the pilots will give it up.
Last edited by EssentialBusDC on Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
jayunited
Posts: 3440
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:13 pm

FlyPNS1 wrote:
If there’s any silver lining for UA in this pandemic, it’s that UA can leverage it to close the narrow body gap with DL and AA. As demand returns, UA could finally catch up and have a narrow body fleet that is more appropriately gauged to its network and provide a better CASM.



Exactly this pandemic as terrible as it is has provided UA an opportunity to close the narrow body gap with DL and AA, and should provide UA some flexibility as we enter the recovery phase later on this year (I hope).

LAXdude1023 wrote:
Yeah IAH-SYD won’t be back for a long time.

What I’m more interested in would be the resumption or addition of more domestic routes from IAH like GRR and BDL.


I think you will see more domestic routes out of IAH and DEN probably beginning with Spring Break 2021. Also I 100% agree I don't see IAH-SYD coming back until at least the start of IATA winter 2022.

Back to domestic routes out of IAH what I would like to see is UA get back on those intra-Texas routes in a big way. It was just reported on the news a few days ago, of all the major cites in the northern half of this country no city has witness a larger mass exodus than San Francisco and the Bay Area, this was followed closely by Manhattan in New York City, Chicago was on the list as well. But lets forget about New York and Chicago for now and focus on San Francisco, because the number one destination for people leaving San Francisco was Texas. To be a bit more specific people are moving either temporarily or permanently (not even the news could answer that question still to early) to mid and southern Texas. From my own observation from this past Christmas and New Year travel period the number of O&D GS and 1K passengers traveling out of places like SAT, AUS, and of IAH has jump significantly. If some of the news reports are to be believed people are not just relocating to the big cities in Texas they are also filtering into smaller and midsize cities and towns as well. Pre-pandemic AA cleaned up on these intra-Texas routes. If this migration from Northern California (San Francisco and Bay Area) to Texas is permanent United can't afford to cede this important intra-Texas market to American. I know UA has people looking at this studying where people are migrating trying to figure out if this is permanent. But I personally think work from home will still be a major factor well into 2022, and you will see UA add/resume more domestic flights out of IAH as we get deeper into 2021.

On the eastern side of the US thanks to migration the stations that are seeing an increase in O&D GS and 1K passengers are BNA, RDU, CHS, surprisingly ATL (no way UA is happy about ATL you really can't challenge Delta out of ATL that is a suicide mission) and lastly every station UA serves on Florida's panhandle on both the eastern and western sides.

I think in 2021 we know UA is going to be full steam ahead at DEN, IAH will also be a benefactor. However, in my opinion UA must figure out intra-Texas routes and not let AA run away on those routes and equally important but immeasurably more difficult for UA the Southeastern part of the US. With nothing but small and midsize line station in the southeastern region of the US, our network planners have their work cut out for them.
 
CALMSP
Posts: 3649
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:36 pm

jayunited wrote:
FlyPNS1 wrote:
If there’s any silver lining for UA in this pandemic, it’s that UA can leverage it to close the narrow body gap with DL and AA. As demand returns, UA could finally catch up and have a narrow body fleet that is more appropriately gauged to its network and provide a better CASM.



Exactly this pandemic as terrible as it is has provided UA an opportunity to close the narrow body gap with DL and AA, and should provide UA some flexibility as we enter the recovery phase later on this year (I hope).

LAXdude1023 wrote:
Yeah IAH-SYD won’t be back for a long time.

What I’m more interested in would be the resumption or addition of more domestic routes from IAH like GRR and BDL.


I think you will see more domestic routes out of IAH and DEN probably beginning with Spring Break 2021. Also I 100% agree I don't see IAH-SYD coming back until at least the start of IATA winter 2022.

Back to domestic routes out of IAH what I would like to see is UA get back on those intra-Texas routes in a big way. It was just reported on the news a few days ago, of all the major cites in the northern half of this country no city has witness a larger mass exodus than San Francisco and the Bay Area, this was followed closely by Manhattan in New York City, Chicago was on the list as well. But lets forget about New York and Chicago for now and focus on San Francisco, because the number one destination for people leaving San Francisco was Texas. To be a bit more specific people are moving either temporarily or permanently (not even the news could answer that question still to early) to mid and southern Texas. From my own observation from this past Christmas and New Year travel period the number of O&D GS and 1K passengers traveling out of places like SAT, AUS, and of IAH has jump significantly. If some of the news reports are to be believed people are not just relocating to the big cities in Texas they are also filtering into smaller and midsize cities and towns as well. Pre-pandemic AA cleaned up on these intra-Texas routes. If this migration from Northern California (San Francisco and Bay Area) to Texas is permanent United can't afford to cede this important intra-Texas market to American. I know UA has people looking at this studying where people are migrating trying to figure out if this is permanent. But I personally think work from home will still be a major factor well into 2022, and you will see UA add/resume more domestic flights out of IAH as we get deeper into 2021.

On the eastern side of the US thanks to migration the stations that are seeing an increase in O&D GS and 1K passengers are BNA, RDU, CHS, surprisingly ATL (no way UA is happy about ATL you really can't challenge Delta out of ATL that is a suicide mission) and lastly every station UA serves on Florida's panhandle on both the eastern and western sides.

I think in 2021 we know UA is going to be full steam ahead at DEN, IAH will also be a benefactor. However, in my opinion UA must figure out intra-Texas routes and not let AA run away on those routes and equally important but immeasurably more difficult for UA the Southeastern part of the US. With nothing but small and midsize line station in the southeastern region of the US, our network planners have their work cut out for them.


intra-Texas as solely into IAH or true intra-tex routes like WN?

As for the reports of CA moving to TX, its a permanent thing and its only going to continue. While the DFW metro will take a lot, there is a large amount moving to the I35 corridor, which will be AUS/SAT/GRK/ACT. But regardless, UA needs to get back into a number of TX markets like DAL/TYR/SJT/DRT/TXK/ACT, and no reason why UA couldn't get into HOU with the core hub routes and make it a UAX station.
 
NJHoboken
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 1:21 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:39 pm

jayunited wrote:
FlyPNS1 wrote:
If there’s any silver lining for UA in this pandemic, it’s that UA can leverage it to close the narrow body gap with DL and AA. As demand returns, UA could finally catch up and have a narrow body fleet that is more appropriately gauged to its network and provide a better CASM.



Exactly this pandemic as terrible as it is has provided UA an opportunity to close the narrow body gap with DL and AA, and should provide UA some flexibility as we enter the recovery phase later on this year (I hope).

LAXdude1023 wrote:
Yeah IAH-SYD won’t be back for a long time.

What I’m more interested in would be the resumption or addition of more domestic routes from IAH like GRR and BDL.


I think you will see more domestic routes out of IAH and DEN probably beginning with Spring Break 2021. Also I 100% agree I don't see IAH-SYD coming back until at least the start of IATA winter 2022.

Back to domestic routes out of IAH what I would like to see is UA get back on those intra-Texas routes in a big way. It was just reported on the news a few days ago, of all the major cites in the northern half of this country no city has witness a larger mass exodus than San Francisco and the Bay Area, this was followed closely by Manhattan in New York City, Chicago was on the list as well. But lets forget about New York and Chicago for now and focus on San Francisco, because the number one destination for people leaving San Francisco was Texas. To be a bit more specific people are moving either temporarily or permanently (not even the news could answer that question still to early) to mid and southern Texas. From my own observation from this past Christmas and New Year travel period the number of O&D GS and 1K passengers traveling out of places like SAT, AUS, and of IAH has jump significantly. If some of the news reports are to be believed people are not just relocating to the big cities in Texas they are also filtering into smaller and midsize cities and towns as well. Pre-pandemic AA cleaned up on these intra-Texas routes. If this migration from Northern California (San Francisco and Bay Area) to Texas is permanent United can't afford to cede this important intra-Texas market to American. I know UA has people looking at this studying where people are migrating trying to figure out if this is permanent. But I personally think work from home will still be a major factor well into 2022, and you will see UA add/resume more domestic flights out of IAH as we get deeper into 2021.

On the eastern side of the US thanks to migration the stations that are seeing an increase in O&D GS and 1K passengers are BNA, RDU, CHS, surprisingly ATL (no way UA is happy about ATL you really can't challenge Delta out of ATL that is a suicide mission) and lastly every station UA serves on Florida's panhandle on both the eastern and western sides.

I think in 2021 we know UA is going to be full steam ahead at DEN, IAH will also be a benefactor. However, in my opinion UA must figure out intra-Texas routes and not let AA run away on those routes and equally important but immeasurably more difficult for UA the Southeastern part of the US. With nothing but small and midsize line station in the southeastern region of the US, our network planners have their work cut out for them.

I’m an EWR-based GS that works on Wall Street. I can tell you that myself and other senior professionals in investment banking have already positioned 1H21 as a no travel period (other than via private plane, when needed). I think some travel may resume in 2H, but candidly, most of our clients will probably opt to stick with virtual meetings through the balance of the year. I know it is too early to make a call, but I would hope that United rolls our GS status again through 2022.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6302
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:52 pm

EssentialBusDC wrote:
ADent wrote:
No problem putting UA pilots in the RJs. Just not going to happen.
- Crew costs are higher
- UA proper would have to add ERJ175 to its operating certificate.
Develop flight Ops procedures, maintenance plans, etc.
Train FAs and pilots and mechanics. Update dispatch SW. Spare parts.

Lots of costs to fly a plane your brand is already flying, but now more expensively.

Would be better off picking up more A319/737-700 or going A220-300.


Yes there would be costs. But there are also benefits of mainline flying the 170/175:

No scope restrictions. So no limit on the number of aircraft, no artificial seat limit (most likely would be a 80+ seat configuration for the 175), no 86,000 lb weight limit (hello E2!), no route or block hour restrictions either, no paying a third party a guaranteed profit margin, no more labor disputes over the issue.

One has to consider both sides of the equation to determine if it makes business sense. So far United has said it doesn’t. IMO it is primarily due to the issue of trying to get a weakening of the scope clause and allow the 90 seaters to be flown at Express. But once 70 seaters+ are flown at mainline, that potential would be impossible. So United holds out, hoping that someday the pilots will give it up.


The economics of flying 76 or even 70 seat RJs are getting worse and worse. I did a look at this on the JetBlue thread, but just to point some obvious issues:
- New generation narrowbody mainline are getting continued engine/aerodynamic updates, which continue to improve their efficiency.
- This is especially true for GTF powered aircraft which have a lot of room for efficiency gain.
- Due to scope clause, no need RJs are getting developed. The new E2 with GTF engine are not scope compliant.
- With little resources devoted to RJ worldwide, the maintenance cost on them will also be increasingly costly vs mainline aircraft
- RJs were only workable vs A319/717s/737s due to the low salary scale of regional fleet
- Against something like A220-300 with just 1 additional FA and salary scale lower than 737/320 series, RJs are going to be increasingly uncompetitive.
- RJ economics also worsens on longer segment flights, which is not the case for new E2 or A220 series.
- In the end, you have a case where total trip cost may be just slightly higher on A220/A320/737 series vs RJs. And you can get longer maintenance cycle and higher utilization. The only advantage of RJs would be lower cost of acquisition.
- On routes like SEA-LAX where AS will be flying MAX9 and UA is flying RJ, AS will be able to lower fare to a price point that UA simply would not be able to compete.

So, UA should be trying to find a sub 150 seat mainline solution long term. Kirby already said 50 seat economics are not unworkable. I don't see how CRJ900/E75 economics will be workable in a few years.
-
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6352
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:39 pm

jayunited wrote:
FlyPNS1 wrote:
If there’s any silver lining for UA in this pandemic, it’s that UA can leverage it to close the narrow body gap with DL and AA. As demand returns, UA could finally catch up and have a narrow body fleet that is more appropriately gauged to its network and provide a better CASM.



Exactly this pandemic as terrible as it is has provided UA an opportunity to close the narrow body gap with DL and AA, and should provide UA some flexibility as we enter the recovery phase later on this year (I hope).

LAXdude1023 wrote:
Yeah IAH-SYD won’t be back for a long time.

What I’m more interested in would be the resumption or addition of more domestic routes from IAH like GRR and BDL.


I think you will see more domestic routes out of IAH and DEN probably beginning with Spring Break 2021. Also I 100% agree I don't see IAH-SYD coming back until at least the start of IATA winter 2022.

Back to domestic routes out of IAH what I would like to see is UA get back on those intra-Texas routes in a big way. It was just reported on the news a few days ago, of all the major cites in the northern half of this country no city has witness a larger mass exodus than San Francisco and the Bay Area, this was followed closely by Manhattan in New York City, Chicago was on the list as well. But lets forget about New York and Chicago for now and focus on San Francisco, because the number one destination for people leaving San Francisco was Texas. To be a bit more specific people are moving either temporarily or permanently (not even the news could answer that question still to early) to mid and southern Texas. From my own observation from this past Christmas and New Year travel period the number of O&D GS and 1K passengers traveling out of places like SAT, AUS, and of IAH has jump significantly. If some of the news reports are to be believed people are not just relocating to the big cities in Texas they are also filtering into smaller and midsize cities and towns as well. Pre-pandemic AA cleaned up on these intra-Texas routes. If this migration from Northern California (San Francisco and Bay Area) to Texas is permanent United can't afford to cede this important intra-Texas market to American. I know UA has people looking at this studying where people are migrating trying to figure out if this is permanent. But I personally think work from home will still be a major factor well into 2022, and you will see UA add/resume more domestic flights out of IAH as we get deeper into 2021.

On the eastern side of the US thanks to migration the stations that are seeing an increase in O&D GS and 1K passengers are BNA, RDU, CHS, surprisingly ATL (no way UA is happy about ATL you really can't challenge Delta out of ATL that is a suicide mission) and lastly every station UA serves on Florida's panhandle on both the eastern and western sides.

I think in 2021 we know UA is going to be full steam ahead at DEN, IAH will also be a benefactor. However, in my opinion UA must figure out intra-Texas routes and not let AA run away on those routes and equally important but immeasurably more difficult for UA the Southeastern part of the US. With nothing but small and midsize line station in the southeastern region of the US, our network planners have their work cut out for them.


YES!

I have been harping for years about how UA needs to make a better effort in smaller markets Texas. ABI was a great start, now if we could get ACT, TYR, and DRT that would be great!!!
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
TrafficCop
Posts: 84
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:00 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:08 pm

VC10er wrote:
jayunited wrote:
VC10er wrote:
How many more 787’s does United have coming? And which size?

Oh, and I hope some of the MAX’s replace some 738’s!


United's 738s range in age from 21 years to 3 years old, and are by no means United oldest narrowbody that honor goes to a few of our A320s.

I will admit some of the 738 first class seats are in bad shape, United was supposed to update the interior of the oldest frames after the A320/19 fleet was finished.

Hopefully at some point in 2022 UA will get around to the refurbishing the interiors of our oldest 738s but I don't think a single 738 should be retired.


Thanks!!! That is interesting, some 738s were factory fresh deliveries? United’s 738s are my least favorite airframe. Why? They are kind of silly reasons; I fly a lot with United (a whole lot!) so I do find myself upfront...and shame on me for complaining about anything, I know that I’m very fortunate to almost always be in First. But given the enormous amount of 738s, I just find those F seats and cabins to be so inferior vs the Airbus fleet (especially the new “used” Airbuses with the whole newly designed
Interiors and seats) currently they look and feel very old even if spotlessly clean. Although I understand now is not the time to put the new F seat in both the 738 & 739 (although the 739 has a nice seat even if they aren’t consistent and up to date with the “brand new look and smell of United’s new interiors)

I am curious why the 738 & 739 have different seats, were they not both delivered to CO over the same span of years?

Last, as I am very rarely on Delta and AA, do they have about the same mix of old and new (Eg; inconsistent interiors) flying side by side?

Thanks again!


Re the 787's.

There are 3 787-9's in CHS waiting delivery. I believe but cant say for sure that they be part of the recent issues with 787's. These 3 are the last 787-9's for now. In 2021 UA was expected to take 8 787-10's. Of course some may slip to 2022. This would give UA a total of 71 787's. 12-8's, 38-9's and 21 -10's.

Some of the 737-9's are pre-merger UA orders. The best way to tell difference is the nose numbers. All 34XX were CO orders and the 38XX were UA, Could explain the different seats in that fleet.
 
jayunited
Posts: 3440
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:25 pm

NJHoboken wrote:
I’m an EWR-based GS that works on Wall Street. I can tell you that myself and other senior professionals in investment banking have already positioned 1H21 as a no travel period (other than via private plane, when needed). I think some travel may resume in 2H, but candidly, most of our clients will probably opt to stick with virtual meetings through the balance of the year. I know it is too early to make a call, but I would hope that United rolls our GS status again through 2022.



No one stated people are traveling for work. Your status as a G.S. or 1K member applies even if you are traveling for leisure, and the migration has happened and continues to happen there is no questioning it the migration is on as people continue to work remotely.
 
NJHoboken
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 1:21 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:51 pm

jayunited wrote:
NJHoboken wrote:
I’m an EWR-based GS that works on Wall Street. I can tell you that myself and other senior professionals in investment banking have already positioned 1H21 as a no travel period (other than via private plane, when needed). I think some travel may resume in 2H, but candidly, most of our clients will probably opt to stick with virtual meetings through the balance of the year. I know it is too early to make a call, but I would hope that United rolls our GS status again through 2022.



No one stated people are traveling for work. Your status as a G.S. or 1K member applies even if you are traveling for leisure, and the migration has happened and continues to happen there is no questioning it the migration is on as people continue to work remotely.

No doubt. I was just offering up the comment that business related travel will be slow to come back, particularly from the NY/Wall Street crowd.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
gwrudolph
Posts: 527
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:46 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:16 am

NJHoboken wrote:
jayunited wrote:
NJHoboken wrote:
I’m an EWR-based GS that works on Wall Street. I can tell you that myself and other senior professionals in investment banking have already positioned 1H21 as a no travel period (other than via private plane, when needed). I think some travel may resume in 2H, but candidly, most of our clients will probably opt to stick with virtual meetings through the balance of the year. I know it is too early to make a call, but I would hope that United rolls our GS status again through 2022.



No one stated people are traveling for work. Your status as a G.S. or 1K member applies even if you are traveling for leisure, and the migration has happened and continues to happen there is no questioning it the migration is on as people continue to work remotely.

No doubt. I was just offering up the comment that business related travel will be slow to come back, particularly from the NY/Wall Street crowd.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


However, clearly, most satisfy the requirements with business, not leisure travel. Most of the upper statuses will be impossible to achieve based solely on one’s leisure travel
 
CALMSP
Posts: 3649
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:36 am

gwrudolph wrote:
NJHoboken wrote:
jayunited wrote:


No one stated people are traveling for work. Your status as a G.S. or 1K member applies even if you are traveling for leisure, and the migration has happened and continues to happen there is no questioning it the migration is on as people continue to work remotely.

No doubt. I was just offering up the comment that business related travel will be slow to come back, particularly from the NY/Wall Street crowd.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


However, clearly, most satisfy the requirements with business, not leisure travel. Most of the upper statuses will be impossible to achieve based solely on one’s leisure travel


agreed, I think it will be interesting to see what UA (and others) will do for 2022 status. Business travel isn't going to be here for 2021. Would UA extend everyone again at the same level for '22??
 
gwrudolph
Posts: 527
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:46 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:54 am

CALMSP wrote:
gwrudolph wrote:
NJHoboken wrote:
No doubt. I was just offering up the comment that business related travel will be slow to come back, particularly from the NY/Wall Street crowd.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


However, clearly, most satisfy the requirements with business, not leisure travel. Most of the upper statuses will be impossible to achieve based solely on one’s leisure travel


agreed, I think it will be interesting to see what UA (and others) will do for 2022 status. Business travel isn't going to be here for 2021. Would UA extend everyone again at the same level for '22??


I am going to guess that despite the wishful thinking, they will all have no choice but to extend status for another year. Unfortunately, no one is going to be doing any considerable business travel in 2021
 
UAinAUS
Posts: 291
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:11 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:32 am

UAX Update:

E175:
N93305 returned to service in 70-seat Version 3
N89308 returned to service in 70-seat Version 3
N85340 returned to service in 70-seat Version 3

CR7:
N502MJ ferried TUS
 
User avatar
cosyr
Posts: 1596
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:23 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:25 pm

CALMSP wrote:
gwrudolph wrote:
NJHoboken wrote:
No doubt. I was just offering up the comment that business related travel will be slow to come back, particularly from the NY/Wall Street crowd.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


However, clearly, most satisfy the requirements with business, not leisure travel. Most of the upper statuses will be impossible to achieve based solely on one’s leisure travel


agreed, I think it will be interesting to see what UA (and others) will do for 2022 status. Business travel isn't going to be here for 2021. Would UA extend everyone again at the same level for '22??

I wouldn't mind that, as I earned higher status for 2021 than normal, through the need to use up expiring Flex PQP's and having several large projects on my Credit Card (bought a new furnace, 2 heat pumps, and installed Solar, all on my credit card.) However, I doubt it. UA already lowered the 22 requirements, and not as low as they did for 21. AA did the same, and DL did even less. The next few months are going to be rough, but I think the vaccine rollout this Spring will start the recovery by this summer. I'm not saying we'll be back to 2019 pax levels, but as numbers start trending up, airlines will have less need to incentivize us to fly again.

In fact, given the number of people that flew over Thanksgiving and the Winter holidays this month, I think summer travel is going to pick up whether people have gotten their vaccine or not (unless Vaccine passports happen).
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6352
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021 (Q1)

Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:52 pm

Question thats on topic but a little not too. For UA flights to FRA for transit, are Americans allowed to still go through FRA or is that out?
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
User avatar
prchan
Posts: 129
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:16 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021 (Q1)

Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:07 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
Question thats on topic but a little not too. For UA flights to FRA for transit, are Americans allowed to still go through FRA or is that out?


I would say yes, since FRA have international transit area in which you do not enter Germany/EU
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4306
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, and Discussion Thread - 2021 (Q1)

Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:05 pm

Has UA announced what TATL will look like for Summer 2021?
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