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DTWorld
Posts: 193
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 02, 2021 11:38 am

South Sky Club by A18 is scheduled to reopen on June 15. The covid testing site that was on the platform has now been relocated near gates A17-A19.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:24 pm

LH returns to DTW today, LH442 is scheduled to land in about 3.5 hours
 
kavok
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:46 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
LH returns to DTW today, LH442 is scheduled to land in about 3.5 hours


Really glad to see LH return. Even if demand is still down currently, it shows the long term commitment LH has to the DTW market, which is very valuable for DTW flyers.

In addition to the value of having a Star Alliance TATL option (for both local & European point of sale), it also keeps DL honest on the DTW-FRA market also, as opposed to forcing the DTW cachement to all connect in ATL/JFK/AMS/CDG when going to FRA. Competition is good.
 
DaveMetroD
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:12 pm

Was Air Georgian, on behalf of Air Canada Express, the last operator of scheduled prop service to DTW?
Any idea when it ended?
 
FlydetroitJets
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:46 am

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:39 pm

No one cares about Lufthansa, they are gonna be a daily by next year, Let's care more about Antonov's and Ilyushin's that might be dropping in soon;)
 
N415XJ
Posts: 911
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:58 pm

DaveMetroD wrote:
Was Air Georgian, on behalf of Air Canada Express, the last operator of scheduled prop service to DTW?
Any idea when it ended?


Yes. B1900D flights out of Toronto stopped in October 2018, but I think DTW went CRJ-exclusive earlier, around 2015/16 I think. Would love to see if someone has actual schedules to back that up. But they were the last turboprop operator.

In the near/medium term it looks like DTW won't have scheduled prop service unless 1) Porter starts service or 2) Some small EAS carrier like Boutique or Southern wins some routes. Would be interested to know how likely either of those are from people more in the know than I am. Based on my username I'm sure you can tell I have fond memories of props at DTW...
 
WidebodyPTV
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:05 pm

It appears DL's trimming more July capacity. I've noticed a handful of flights that are either zero'd out, or selling full-Y only on many days in July. The morning SAN-DTW flight is a good example of this. As of last week, DTW/SAN was scheduled at three daily nights - a 321, 753 and 333. Now, SAN-DTW is scheduled with a daily 757, supplemented by a 753 several days of the week.

N415XJ wrote:
Yes. B1900D flights out of Toronto stopped in October 2018, but I think DTW went CRJ-exclusive earlier, around 2015/16 I think. Would love to see if someone has actual schedules to back that up. But they were the last turboprop operator.


AC issued several press releases through the year, beginning in the early 2000s, announcing DTW/YYZ would go all jet. And there were several periods where the service would go all jet, but the turoprops would always find their way back into the schedule.
 
DaveMetroD
Posts: 113
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jun 04, 2021 10:31 pm

N415XJ wrote:
DaveMetroD wrote:
Was Air Georgian, on behalf of Air Canada Express, the last operator of scheduled prop service to DTW?
Any idea when it ended?


Yes. B1900D flights out of Toronto stopped in October 2018, but I think DTW went CRJ-exclusive earlier, around 2015/16 I think. Would love to see if someone has actual schedules to back that up. But they were the last turboprop operator.

In the near/medium term it looks like DTW won't have scheduled prop service unless 1) Porter starts service or 2) Some small EAS carrier like Boutique or Southern wins some routes. Would be interested to know how likely either of those are from people more in the know than I am. Based on my username I'm sure you can tell I have fond memories of props at DTW...

Thanks for the info. I flew in the Air Rarotonga SAAB 340. I could fit my camera case in the overhead on the 2 seat side with a little bit of effort.
I was able to stuff my daypack under the seat in front on the single seat side. That flight was the limiting factor for my luggage(domestic first class/international business class).
They didn't complain about the second checked suitcase. Helped to be on a full fare ticket I guess.

Looking forward to the day I'll be departing DTW for another South Pacific trip.
But like before, it's likely to be through Chicago on United given the premium fare Delta charges.
 
DaveMetroD
Posts: 113
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:05 pm

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jun 04, 2021 10:43 pm

WidebodyPTV wrote:
AC issued several press releases through the year, beginning in the early 2000s, announcing DTW/YYZ would go all jet. And there were several periods where the service would go all jet, but the turoprops would always find their way back into the schedule.


I didn't realize or maybe just don't remember they had gone to all jet before.

DTW held a press conference regarding the return of Lufthansa. The local CBS station covered it.
https://detroit.cbslocal.com/video/program/1488/5654859-lufthansa/

No coverage found regarding exotic cargo flights ;)
 
umichman
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:42 am

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:32 am

WidebodyPTV wrote:
It appears DL's trimming more July capacity. I've noticed a handful of flights that are either zero'd out, or selling full-Y only on many days in July. The morning SAN-DTW flight is a good example of this. As of last week, DTW/SAN was scheduled at three daily nights - a 321, 753 and 333. Now, SAN-DTW is scheduled with a daily 757, supplemented by a 753 several days of the week.



According to Enilria's schedule change updates, DTW-SAN was reduced to 2x daily in June/July back at the end April. August was later reduced from 4x to 3x daily.
Last edited by umichman on Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
WidebodyPTV
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:41 am

umichman wrote:
According to Enilria's schedule change updates, DTW-SAN was reduced to 2x daily in June/July back at the end April. August was later reduced from 4x to 3x daily. According to ExpertFlyer, DL922 will only operate Mo/Th in July, but I'm still seeing seats for sale on it daily.


Thank you for that, but as of early last week, DL was selling three departures on the eastbound flight (~7AM = 321, ~12PM = 753, ~10PM = 764). Earlier this week, I noticed that the 12PM had been pulled (and 7AM went to 753, 10PM to 757). This morning, I noticed that most of the 7AM departures are either zero'd out or limited to full Y/F. :)
 
umichman
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:42 am

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:44 am

WidebodyPTV wrote:
umichman wrote:
According to Enilria's schedule change updates, DTW-SAN was reduced to 2x daily in June/July back at the end April. August was later reduced from 4x to 3x daily. According to ExpertFlyer, DL922 will only operate Mo/Th in July, but I'm still seeing seats for sale on it daily.


Thank you for that, but as of early last week, DL was selling three departures on the eastbound flight (~7AM = 321, ~12PM = 753, ~10PM = 764). Earlier this week, I noticed that the 12PM had been pulled (and 7AM went to 753, 10PM to 757). This morning, I noticed that most of the 7AM departures are either zero'd out or limited to full Y/F. :)


I was wrong about ExpertFlyer. Flight Timetables search just displays DL922 oddly depending on which day you search and makes it looks less than daily. It's actually daily and looks pretty full on many days.
 
Robert16627
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:52 pm

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:55 am

N415XJ wrote:
DaveMetroD wrote:
Was Air Georgian, on behalf of Air Canada Express, the last operator of scheduled prop service to DTW?
Any idea when it ended?


Yes. B1900D flights out of Toronto stopped in October 2018, but I think DTW went CRJ-exclusive earlier, around 2015/16 I think. Would love to see if someone has actual schedules to back that up. But they were the last turboprop operator.

In the near/medium term it looks like DTW won't have scheduled prop service unless 1) Porter starts service or 2) Some small EAS carrier like Boutique or Southern wins some routes. Would be interested to know how likely either of those are from people more in the know than I am. Based on my username I'm sure you can tell I have fond memories of props at DTW...

In late 2019, early 2020, they also used a early version of the Dash 8 for a week on the YYZ-DTW route then it was switched back to the CRJ-200 until they stopped flying here in March.
 
WidebodyPTV
Posts: 721
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:06 pm

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jun 05, 2021 2:00 am

In July, on DTW-MSP, DL will be operate rating a 359 on Wednesday night and Thursday evening; on MSP-DTW, DL will be operating a pair of 359 on Thursday morning and then in the evening.

umichman wrote:
I was wrong about ExpertFlyer. Flight Timetables search just displays DL922 oddly depending on which day you search and makes it looks less than daily. It's actually daily and looks pretty full on many days.


It could be a derivative of the reduction in capacity (e.g. the flights are actually sold out, or close to being sold out).
 
umichman
Posts: 286
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jun 05, 2021 2:31 am

WidebodyPTV wrote:
In July, on DTW-MSP, DL will be operate rating a 359 on Wednesday night and Thursday evening; on MSP-DTW, DL will be operating a pair of 359 on Thursday morning and then in the evening.

umichman wrote:
I was wrong about ExpertFlyer. Flight Timetables search just displays DL922 oddly depending on which day you search and makes it looks less than daily. It's actually daily and looks pretty full on many days.


It could be a derivative of the reduction in capacity (e.g. the flights are actually sold out, or close to being sold out).


No, it just shows DL922 as M,Th if you search for flights on a Mon or Thu, and W,F,Su if you search for flights on a Wed, Fri, Sun, and so on. Not sure why it displays it this way instead of just showing Daily as it is the same aircraft (752). DL2219 shows as Daily in the Flight Schedule search.
 
WidebodyPTV
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jun 06, 2021 3:27 am

It took me forever to find this image, so I thought I’d share:

Image
 
WA707atMSP
Posts: 2110
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:16 pm

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:56 am

WidebodyPTV wrote:
In July, on DTW-MSP, DL will be operate rating a 359 on Wednesday night and Thursday evening; on MSP-DTW, DL will be operating a pair of 359 on Thursday morning and then in the evening.


It would be nice if DL operated the 359 between DTW and MSP for the Nov / Dec holiday peak. Remember when NW flew 747-451s DTW-MSP in the 1980s and 1990s?

PTV, the picture of DTW you just posted is great. There's a FB group called "Detroit Metro Airport History and Photo Page", where many historic images of DTW are posted. If you're a FB member, check it out, and please post your picture there.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8990
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:21 am

General observations and thoughts from my travels out of DTW yesterday. A few changes since I last was there before Memorial Day weekend.

- The north helix is now reopened in the McNamera garage
- Despite flights and passenger numbers up, the parking garage is still relatively empty once getting up to floors 7+; a tell-tale sign that still not a lot of business travelers back on expense accounts as in the pre-covid era the garage would be near-full midweek.
- Why is the long-term parking area of Level 7 in the center area, still tarped off, as it has been since last March?

- The slowest TSA experience I've ever seen yesterday. No one in line when I go there but I think they had some new trainees working the checkpoint in the pre-check line it literally took me 20 minutes from ID check until through the checkpoint. The new dude literally took 2-3 minutes per bag and was pulling off about 50% of the bags for re-runs or secondary screening. It was a literal joke. Finally some supervisor came out and took over to keep things moving.

- Main A38 Skyclub has changed-up the food serving situation. Previously it was all single-serve grab-and-go items. Now, they have the food station roped-off and you have to tell a server what you want. Basically its the buffet set-up but you have to have the attendent / server get your food. While the food options are a whole lot better, its a heck of a lot slower and inefficient. When I got the to the club it was empty, but when I left the line for the single bartender was 10+ deep, and the line for the food server was 10+ deep as well. This set-up doesn't work very well with passenger counts climbing upward

- The tram is running again, although it seems to at a bit slower frequency. It may be just me, but it seemed like it was waiting longer in the stations between departures.

- Gates on the lower side, inner alley; odd # gates A17-A35 are currently closed from concrete / ramp reconstruction. They were literally in the process or ripping out the concrete down to the base. The jet bridges have been positioned up to the terminal and the ends are tarped-over for dust control.

- The I-275 reconstruction project from 6 Mile (I-96/M-14 area) down past the airport is scheduled to begin in June. 2 lanes in each direction from Eureka to 6 Mile, 1 lane open south of the airport. Multiple ramps from I-275 to/from I-94 to be closed. This is going to be a royal PITA for those using the airport in western Wayne or western Oakland county from the rest of summer and next few years.
 
WA707atMSP
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Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:16 pm

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:47 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
- The I-275 reconstruction project from 6 Mile (I-96/M-14 area) down past the airport is scheduled to begin in June. 2 lanes in each direction from Eureka to 6 Mile, 1 lane open south of the airport. Multiple ramps from I-275 to/from I-94 to be closed. This is going to be a royal PITA for those using the airport in western Wayne or western Oakland county from the rest of summer and next few years.


Thanks for the updates.

The I-275 roadwork is an extra-big problem because the interchange between Telegraph Road and 8 Mile is being rebuilt this summer. Many of the people who would have taken Telegraph will be taking the Southfield Freeway, which is already pretty busy.

Next month, when I fly back to visit my parents, who live near Seaholm High School in B'ham, I'll probably take Middlebelt to 12 Mile to Cranbrook / Evergreen, or take Middlebelt to 15 Mile. Although there are a lot of traffic lights between the airport and 12 Mile or 15 Mile on Middlebelt, it will probably still be faster than the alternatives.

Going totally OT, not long ago I was looking at Google Maps of the area north of DTW, and realized how Van Born Road got its name. It runs from VAN Buren township to dearBORN.
 
DaveMetroD
Posts: 113
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:53 am

WA707atMSP you really want to check the local road construction map before coming. Maple Road is closed along your proposed route and 12 Mile is/will be under construction in several locations.

PSU.DTW.SCE while increasing the headway would save some energy, I doubt it would save enough to implement such a reduction in service.
So it must just be you :D
 
WA707atMSP
Posts: 2110
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:16 pm

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:16 pm

DaveMetroD wrote:
WA707atMSP you really want to check the local road construction map before coming. Maple Road is closed along your proposed route and 12 Mile is/will be under construction in several locations.

PSU.DTW.SCE while increasing the headway would save some energy, I doubt it would save enough to implement such a reduction in service.
So it must just be you :D


DaveMetroD, thank you VERY much for the update. I had no idea about the roadwork on Maple and 12 Mile.

My parents live near the intersection of Cranbrook and 15 Mile. I saw online that Cranbrook will also be closed between 14 Mile and 15 Mile this summer.

I'm thinking of taking Middlebelt to 10 Mile, to Telegraph, to 15 Mile. This would avoid the construction zones on Telegraph, Cranbrook, and 15 Mile. Do any of you know of roadwork on 10 Mile or Middlebelt this summer, or does this seem like a good route?
 
DaveMetroD
Posts: 113
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:05 pm

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:50 pm

WA707atMSP wrote:
I'm thinking of taking Middlebelt to 10 Mile, to Telegraph, to 15 Mile. This would avoid the construction zones on Telegraph, Cranbrook, and 15 Mile. Do any of you know of roadwork on 10 Mile or Middlebelt this summer, or does this seem like a good route?


As it stands right now, that would work. But there has been quite a bit of pop-up work going on. Check the traffic before leaving the airport.
Not sure if 8 & Telegraph will be done this year. MDOT has absolutely no info on their website about it. Major projects should rate an entry.

I just checked the airport construction map. Appears DTW is still using the lull to get more work done on the runways and taxiways.
 
umichman
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:42 am

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:55 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:

- Main A38 Skyclub has changed-up the food serving situation. Previously it was all single-serve grab-and-go items. Now, they have the food station roped-off and you have to tell a server what you want. Basically its the buffet set-up but you have to have the attendent / server get your food. While the food options are a whole lot better, its a heck of a lot slower and inefficient. When I got the to the club it was empty, but when I left the line for the single bartender was 10+ deep, and the line for the food server was 10+ deep as well. This set-up doesn't work very well with passenger counts climbing upward

- The tram is running again, although it seems to at a bit slower frequency. It may be just me, but it seemed like it was waiting longer in the stations between departures.



I heard the servers at the Sky Club will only be there through June 15th and then it will go back to original, pre-Covid self-serve buffet. They also have servers at SEA and LAX when I went through them. Hopefully they will be go back to self-serve system-wide as it is definitely a pain.

They were using gates A1-A5 this past weekend when I went through which is new, but a number of the concessions in Easter Market on south end were still closed (although some looked like they might be re-opening). The large eatery down there still had all the chairs upside down and sitting on the tables which was kind of a depressing look. It'd be nice if they could store the chairs somewhere else if they are not going to re-open it.
 
dtw9
Posts: 1021
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 10:09 am

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:04 pm

WA707atMSP wrote:
DaveMetroD wrote:
WA707atMSP you really want to check the local road construction map before coming. Maple Road is closed along your proposed route and 12 Mile is/will be under construction in several locations.

PSU.DTW.SCE while increasing the headway would save some energy, I doubt it would save enough to implement such a reduction in service.
So it must just be you :D


DaveMetroD, thank you VERY much for the update. I had no idea about the roadwork on Maple and 12 Mile.

My parents live near the intersection of Cranbrook and 15 Mile. I saw online that Cranbrook will also be closed between 14 Mile and 15 Mile this summer.

I'm thinking of taking Middlebelt to 10 Mile, to Telegraph, to 15 Mile. This would avoid the construction zones on Telegraph, Cranbrook, and 15 Mile. Do any of you know of roadwork on 10 Mile or Middlebelt this summer, or does this seem like a good route?



Middlebelt at 11 and Middlebelt between Northwestern and 14 being worked on. Was just up that way last week. I’d take middlebelt to 10. 10 to Lahser and straight up from there
 
goboeing
Posts: 2583
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 5:31 am

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:18 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
- The I-275 reconstruction project from 6 Mile (I-96/M-14 area) down past the airport is scheduled to begin in June. 2 lanes in each direction from Eureka to 6 Mile, 1 lane open south of the airport. Multiple ramps from I-275 to/from I-94 to be closed. This is going to be a royal PITA for those using the airport in western Wayne or western Oakland county from the rest of summer and next few years.


I'm trying to picture on the map here where you mean as it relates to right by the airport but I guess I can't figure it out.

Will it affect coming in to DTW from the west via 94/275? (like from Jackson/Ypsi/Ann Arbor)
 
drdisque
Posts: 1488
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:57 am

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:52 pm

goboeing wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
- The I-275 reconstruction project from 6 Mile (I-96/M-14 area) down past the airport is scheduled to begin in June. 2 lanes in each direction from Eureka to 6 Mile, 1 lane open south of the airport. Multiple ramps from I-275 to/from I-94 to be closed. This is going to be a royal PITA for those using the airport in western Wayne or western Oakland county from the rest of summer and next few years.


I'm trying to picture on the map here where you mean as it relates to right by the airport but I guess I can't figure it out.

Will it affect coming in to DTW from the west via 94/275? (like from Jackson/Ypsi/Ann Arbor)


It will affect anyone who enters the airport off 275. People from Washtenaw County often take 94 to 275 to enter the airport if flying DL and not parking off-site, since going over to Merriman would be out of their way. People from Novi/Northville/Farmington often take 275 all the way to the airport.

This will less affect people coming from the East on I-94 and/or people who were going to Merriman anyway for the North Terminal or Off-site parking.

It will affect anyone who typically takes 275 to the airport as the entire stretch from 96 to 94 will be under construction. I can see people from Farmington taking Middlebelt to the airport.
 
kavok
Posts: 994
Joined: Wed May 11, 2016 10:12 pm

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:58 pm

The SkyClub at A18 is reopening on June 15. Supposably on that date, the main SkyClub will return to a self serve buffet (without the current servers). We shall see, but good to see some return to normalcy… even if there still remains a lot of “dead periods” in the McNamara terminal these days.
 
Dtw757
Posts: 1271
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2003 10:05 am

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:13 pm

WidebodyPTV wrote:
It took me forever to find this image, so I thought I’d share:

Image


Nice picture, must be around summer 2002 or so. I always wished they would have found a way to incorporate the Davey Terminal into what is now the North Terminal
 
Seat1F
Posts: 201
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:42 pm

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:23 pm

Dtw757 wrote:
WidebodyPTV wrote:
It took me forever to find this image, so I thought I’d share:

Image


Nice picture, must be around summer 2002 or so. I always wished they would have found a way to incorporate the Davey Terminal into what is now the North Terminal


Agreed. The Davey Terminal building itself was considered quite something at the time. It was very aesthetically pleasing in the early days before it got cluttered as NW based it's hub from there. The concourse area behind it was nothing special with the exception of the F concourse in the early days when United occupied it. Those were the days.
 
nwjet
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:21 am

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:27 pm

Anyone know why their is a Swiss Airlines jet at DTW right now?
 
dtw9
Posts: 1021
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 10:09 am

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:32 pm

nwjet wrote:
Anyone know why their is a Swiss Airlines jet at DTW right now?


Same reason there’s a Emirates 773. Chicago diversion. Ual 789 on the way too
 
WidebodyPTV
Posts: 721
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:06 pm

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:17 pm

A couple random observations regarding the peak summer stretch:

* DTW's recovery is seemingly slower than the rest of the nation. For example, WN peaks at 10 - 11 (peak day) departures -- that's down from 22-24 pre-COVID.

* AA is scheduling a MAX on DTW/MIA. I believe this is the first time they've scheduled the MAX into DTW. IIRC, only WN has previously done so.

* Surprisingly, UA "choose" IAH for its sole mainline flight. I'm surprised DEN remains scheduled with the E75.

WA707atMSP wrote:
It would be nice if DL operated the 359 between DTW and MSP for the Nov / Dec holiday peak. Remember when NW flew 747-451s DTW-MSP in the 1980s and 1990s?


Yes I do! I'm pretty certain service lasted (on a more limited basis) into the 2000s. One of the primary reasons NW operated the aircraft on the route (for most of its life, it was the sole scheduled 744 flight to/from MSP) was because it purchased all of its alcohol and canned beverages in Minnesota, and needed an efficient way to transport them to DTW. Alcohol was significantly cheaper in Minnesota, and if NW purchased canned beverages in Michigan, it had to adhere to the bottle deposit law. NW later started trucking the product into DTW, which triggered a lawsuit, although I'm uncertain as to its outcome.

PTV, the picture of DTW you just posted is great. There's a FB group called "Detroit Metro Airport History and Photo Page", where many historic images of DTW are posted. If you're a FB member, check it out, and please post your picture there.


I've never had a FB account, but I'm enticed to sign up for one to view the group! If you or anyone else is interested in posting the pic to the group, please feel free to do so!
 
kavok
Posts: 994
Joined: Wed May 11, 2016 10:12 pm

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:46 pm

WidebodyPTV wrote:
A couple random observations regarding the peak summer stretch:

* DTW's recovery is seemingly slower than the rest of the nation. For example, WN peaks at 10 - 11 (peak day) departures -- that's down from 22-24 pre-COVID.

* AA is scheduling a MAX on DTW/MIA. I believe this is the first time they've scheduled the MAX into DTW. IIRC, only WN has previously done so.

* Surprisingly, UA "choose" IAH for its sole mainline flight. I'm surprised DEN remains scheduled with the E75.

WA707atMSP wrote:
It would be nice if DL operated the 359 between DTW and MSP for the Nov / Dec holiday peak. Remember when NW flew 747-451s DTW-MSP in the 1980s and 1990s?


Yes I do! I'm pretty certain service lasted (on a more limited basis) into the 2000s. One of the primary reasons NW operated the aircraft on the route (for most of its life, it was the sole scheduled 744 flight to/from MSP) was because it purchased all of its alcohol and canned beverages in Minnesota, and needed an efficient way to transport them to DTW. Alcohol was significantly cheaper in Minnesota, and if NW purchased canned beverages in Michigan, it had to adhere to the bottle deposit law. NW later started trucking the product into DTW, which triggered a lawsuit, although I'm uncertain as to its outcome.

PTV, the picture of DTW you just posted is great. There's a FB group called "Detroit Metro Airport History and Photo Page", where many historic images of DTW are posted. If you're a FB member, check it out, and please post your picture there.


I've never had a FB account, but I'm enticed to sign up for one to view the group! If you or anyone else is interested in posting the pic to the group, please feel free to do so!


I suspect that much of the slow DTW recovery is due to:
1- Delta dominates DTW point-of-sale. Even with cheaper fares, it is hard for AA/UA and to a lesser extent WN from attracting DTW based pax. This is more true in the summer, and less true in the winter when Florida/Beach/Sun routes come into play.

2- Being that any route to/from DTW is so heavily skewed toward local DTW O/D compared to visitors, it makes it very difficult for AA/UA to complete with DL on DTW routes. Detroit is still a big enough market that AA/UA need to serve it.., but a few RJs a day is currently all they need to meet that demand, given the current business travel market.
 
WidebodyPTV
Posts: 721
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:14 pm

kavok wrote:
I suspect that much of the slow DTW recovery is due to:
1- Delta dominates DTW point-of-sale. Even with cheaper fares, it is hard for AA/UA and to a lesser extent WN from attracting DTW based pax. This is more true in the summer, and less true in the winter when Florida/Beach/Sun routes come into play.

2- Being that any route to/from DTW is so heavily skewed toward local DTW O/D compared to visitors, it makes it very difficult for AA/UA to complete with DL on DTW routes. Detroit is still a big enough market that AA/UA need to serve it.., but a few RJs a day is currently all they need to meet that demand, given the current business travel market.


IMO, it appears as if DL's limiting capacity into DTW, which is resulting in higher fares, and other carriers are matching. DL maintains about a 50% share of the local market.

For example, consider LAX. During the summer stretch (peak days), most RT on DL are pricing at $499 - $650 (which is a sharp reduction from where it's been pricing out at before). For the same dates, MSP is pricing out from $299, and ATL from $370. NK wants from $305 from DTW, and from $181 from ATL.

More telling: consider LAX during the fall (peak days). DL is pricing MSP from $149, and ATL from $198. DTW is pricing out from $335. However... AA, UA and WN have flights from $198 RT.
 
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:58 pm

I've been meaning to run my analysis on actual flights for June, but been kind of slammed. I might do so tonight or tomorrow if I have a chance.

DL seems to be at the phase in the recovery now where they are trying more increase their yields.
Like said, some stuff is pricing out pretty crazy, but very route dependent.
 
jplatts
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:24 am

WidebodyPTV wrote:
A couple random observations regarding the peak summer stretch:

* DTW's recovery is seemingly slower than the rest of the nation. For example, WN peaks at 10 - 11 (peak day) departures -- that's down from 22-24 pre-COVID.


WN increasing DTW-LAS nonstop service back to daily nonstop service is a possibility as WN was getting over 90% load factors on DTW-LAS nonstop service prior to reducing DTW-LAS nonstop service to Saturday-only nonstop service in June 2019.

The return of WN DTW-DAL nonstop service is also a possibility since DTW was one of the top destinations traveled to from DAL that isn't currently served nonstop from DAL and since WN had a decent amount of O&D traffic on DTW-DAL nonstop flights prior to dropping DTW-DAL nonstop service. WN CEO Gary Kelly also said in and interview that WN wants to restore some of the routes that were suspended during the COVID-19 pandemic.
 
kavok
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:04 am

DTW North Terminal is being named after county executive Warren Evans. So beginning sometime next year, there will be the Evans Terminal (North) and McNamara Terminal.

If I recall correctly, at one point during the Great Recession DTW tried to sell the naming rights to the North Terminal, but given the economic situation at the time, there were no corporate offers that made it worthwhile. Hence the North Terminal name stuck, until now.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/ ... 721173002/
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:11 am

Surprised they even bothered giving it a name at this point. Too bad the name kinda sucks, haha. Not making fun of the gentleman’s name, Evans Terminal doesn’t come of the tongue that well IMO
 
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:23 am

kavok wrote:
DTW North Terminal is being named after county executive Warren Evans. So beginning sometime next year, there will be the Evans Terminal (North) and McNamara Terminal.

If I recall correctly, at one point during the Great Recession DTW tried to sell the naming rights to the North Terminal, but given the economic situation at the time, there were no corporate offers that made it worthwhile. Hence the North Terminal name stuck, until now.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/ ... 721173002/


DTW tried to many years to sell the naming rights to the North Terminal; I wouldn't be surprised if they were still trying until recently. It was an innovative idea -- is there any other domestic terminal (or concourse) that sold its naming rights? The closest thing I can think of was MIA -- I recall traveling through the then-new AA terminal about a decade ago, and HSBC signage was prominent. It was on the jetways, on the jetbridges, plastered throughout the terminal (both printed and electronic signage), etc. Ironically, I don't think HSBC ever had a branch retail presence in MIA. (I wouldn't have minded if Comerica was the corporate sponsor... they could call the terminal colors 'Comerica Blue' instead of 'DTW blue.')

That said, I don't understand the thinking that we have to name the terminals after local Wayne County officials. How many people in the area know who L.C. Smith, Davey or Berry were? Why not:

- The (Robert James) Ritchie Terminal
- The (Elizabeth) Berkley Terminal
- The (Marshall) Mathers Terminal
- The (Tim) Allen Terminal
- The Drew & Mike Terminal
- The (Barry) Sanders Terminal
- The (Steve) Yzerman Terminal
- The Mike Poser Cooler Than You Terminal (which would be known locally as the Mike Terminal).

I’d also suggest The Babcock Terminal, but it may try to bully and harass the McNamara Terminal.
 
DaveMetroD
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:27 am

I think everyone knew in the end be it would be named after a local politician.
Wouldn't it be nice if that person had a squeaky clean background.
Maybe next time.
 
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:51 am

DaveMetroD wrote:
I think everyone knew in the end be it would be named after a local politician. Wouldn't it be nice if that person had a squeaky clean background. Maybe next time.

Seems it's always a toss up between a little-known politician or, since the trend began in the 1990s, a corporate sponsor. Oh well, at least Rosa Parks has been deservedly memorialized with a transit center, and Gordie Howe is getting a bridge.
 
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:28 pm

I really don’t understand why the heck airports name terminals after local politicians. It’s one thing to name a building that serves the jurisdiction but it’s another to name a global facility with name of a local politician than no one knows outside of the region.

Terminal names should be intuitive and based on some sort of way finding method. North and South etc. most people are going to just call it the Delta terminal and the North terminal for decades.

Just like we still refer to Pine Knob or Metro Beach. Heck I still say the Palace or Joe Louis Arena at times.
 
DaveMetroD
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:55 pm

Michigan no longer uses names on freeway signage.
Only to be replaced by all those roadside signs memorializing/honoring someone.

I'm sure I will always call them the Delta and North Terminals.
Along with it being Pine Knob.
But I do know the Palace and JLA are in building heaven.

I wonder will they replace the roadway signs or just sticker them over?
I think replace will occur because stickers likely would be an affront to the local politician.
I'm sure the change will occur quickly.
 
WA707atMSP
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:06 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
I really don’t understand why the heck airports name terminals after local politicians. It’s one thing to name a building that serves the jurisdiction but it’s another to name a global facility with name of a local politician than no one knows outside of the region.

Terminal names should be intuitive and based on some sort of way finding method. North and South etc. most people are going to just call it the Delta terminal and the North terminal for decades.

Just like we still refer to Pine Knob or Metro Beach. Heck I still say the Palace or Joe Louis Arena at times.


A downside of naming anything after a person is that, when public opinion of that person turns negative, anything named after them has to get a new name.

For many years, Charles Lindbergh was an aviation hero, so Minneapolis named the main terminal at MSP after him. Now, most people associate Lindbergh with his anti Semitic views, so the former Lindbergh terminal at MSP is now "Terminal 1".
 
WidebodyPTV
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:21 pm

WA707atMSP wrote:
A downside of naming anything after a person is that, when public opinion of that person turns negative, anything named after them has to get a new name.

For many years, Charles Lindbergh was an aviation hero, so Minneapolis named the main terminal at MSP after him. Now, most people associate Lindbergh with his anti Semitic views, so the former Lindbergh terminal at MSP is now "Terminal 1".


Same with John Wayne. But in fairness, in today's "woke society," even George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and Abraham Lincoln are having their likeness stripped.

But then again, this is Detroit. Several of our terminals are/were named for people who were/should be controversial, and nobody seems to care...
 
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:27 pm

WidebodyPTV wrote:
WA707atMSP wrote:
A downside of naming anything after a person is that, when public opinion of that person turns negative, anything named after them has to get a new name.

For many years, Charles Lindbergh was an aviation hero, so Minneapolis named the main terminal at MSP after him. Now, most people associate Lindbergh with his anti Semitic views, so the former Lindbergh terminal at MSP is now "Terminal 1".


Same with John Wayne. But in fairness, in today's "woke society," even George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and Abraham Lincoln are having their likeness stripped.

But then again, this is Detroit. Several of our terminals are/were named for people who were/should be controversial, and nobody seems to care...


It's surprising that I-275 has never been named after anybody. It's the only Detroit area freeway that hasn't been given a name.
 
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:36 pm

With all the discussion about airline flight cancellations, you might appreciate a cancellation I thought was a good thing:

Now that I've been vaccinated, I'm trying to get back to B'ham to visit my elderly parents more often. Three weeks ago, I was booking a fall trip MSP-DTW. I saw that DL's 6:10 AM departure from MSP was $70 less than any other flight on my travel date. I didn't want to get up at 3 AM to take this flight, but I thought it was pretty likely that, if DL was pricing this flight so low, they were going to cancel it.

Sure enough, on Saturday, I got an email from DL that they were cancelling my flight, and had moved me to the flight I'd originally wanted to book. I saved $70 on my trip by gambling that DL was going to cancel a flight I didn't want to take, and move me to my preferred flight.
 
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:31 am

Ok, I finally got around to running an updated analysis of flight activity using today Wednesday 6/23/21 actual departures. I last did a similar analysis in May, using Monday 5/10/21.
Again this using actuals from this Wednesday may miss anything that does not operate on that day (e.g., less-than daily or Sat-only)

Parenthesis (+1), (-1), etc indicate changes since May (5/10/21(in flights). I did most, I only did equipment types for DL.

By Brand

Air France 1 (-)
Alaska 1 (-)
American 24 (+4)
Delta 328 (+27)
Frontier 4 (+1)
JetBlue 3 (-)
Southwest 9 (-1)
Spirit 27 (-3)
United 13 (-1)
Total Scheduled Passenger: 410(+28)*
*Does not include flights that operate less-than-daily (e.g, RJ AMM, DL NGO, ANC, BZN, JAC, RAP) that don't operate on Wednesday.
----
Cargo 14
GA / Other 10
Non-Scheduled / Charter 1
Grand Total 435

By Destination:
Brand Dest Count of ID
Air France
CDG 1
Air France Total 1

Alaska
SEA 1
Alaska Total 1

American
CLT 5 (-1)
DCA 2 (+1)
DFW 4
MIA 1
ORD 6 (+2)
PHL 5 (+2)
PHX 1
American Total 24 (+4)

Delta
ABE 3
ALB 3
AMS 1
APN 2
ATL 11
ATW 3
AUS 3
AZO 3
BDL 4 (+1)
BGM 1
BHM 2
BMI 1
BNA 4
BOS 4
BTV 4 (+2)
BUF 5 (+2)
BWI 4
CDG 1 (+1)
CHA 1 (+1)
CHS 2
CID 3 (+1)
CIU 1
CLE 4
CLT 5 (+1)
CMH 5 (+1)
CUN 2
CVG 5 (+1)
CWA 3 (+1)
DAY 4 (+1)
DCA 4
DEN 4
DFW 4 (+1)
DSM 4 (+2)
ELM 2
ESC 1
EVV 2
EWR 5 (+1)
FLL 5 (-1)
FWA 3 (+1)
GRB 3
GRR 5
GSO 2 (+1)
GSP 2
HND 1
HSV 1
IAD 3
IAH 4
ICN 1
IMT 1
IND 4
ITH 1
JAX 2
JFK 4 (+1)
LAN 4 (+1)
LAS 6
LAX 6
LEX 2
LGA 4
LSE 1
MBS 4
MCI 4
MCO 7 (-1)
MDT 3
MDW 3
MEM 3 (+1)
MEX 1
MIA 2
MKE 4 (+1)
MSN 5 (+2)
MSP 5 (-1)
MSY 2
MYR 1
OKC 0 (-1)
OMA 3
ORD 6 (+3)
ORF 3
PBI 1
PDX 1 (+1)
PHL 4
PHX 4
PIT 5 (+2)
PLN 4 (+2)
PVD 2 (+2)
PWM 3 (-1)
RDU 4
RIC 3 (+1)
ROC 3
RSW 4 (-1)
SAN 2
SAT 2
SAV 1
SAW 2
SBN 3
SDF 3
SEA 4
SFO 2 (-1)
SLC 4 (-1)
SRQ 1
STL 4 (+1)
SYR 3 (-1)
TPA 5 (-1)
TVC 4 (-1)
TYS 3 (+1)
UNV 2 (+1)
YUL 1
YYZ 3 (+1)
Delta Total 328 (+27)

Frontier
DEN 1
LAS 1
MCO 1
MIA 1
Frontier Total 4

JetBlue
BOS 2 (+1)
JFK 1 (-1)
JetBlue Total 3

Southwest
BNA 2
BWI 2 (-1)
DEN 1 (-1)
HOU 1
MDW 3 (+1)
Southwest Total 9 (-1)

Spirit
ATL 2
AUS 1
CUN 1
FLL 4
IAH 1
LAS 3
LAX 2
LGA 1
MCI 1
MCO 4
MSY 1
MYR 2
RSW 2 (-1)
SAN 1
TPA 1 (-2)
Spirit Total 27 (-3)

United
DEN 2
EWR 2 (-1)
IAD 2
IAH 3
ORD 4
United Total 13 (-1)
 
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:37 am

Brand Equip Count of ID
Air France
B789 1
Air France Total 1

Alaska
B739 1
Alaska Total 1

American
A319 1
A320 2
B738 7* (AAL 1020 MIA some days is a Max 8)
CRJ7 2
CRJ9 1
E145 1
E170 3
E75L 3
E75S 4
American Total 24

Cargo
A306 2
B734 1
B752 4
B763 3
B789 1
DC10 1
MD11 2
Cargo Total 14

Frontier
A20N 2
A321 2
Frontier Total 4

GA / Other
BE40 1
C560 2
C68A 2
CRJ2 1
E55P 1
LJ60 1
P28B 1
PA32 1
GA / Other Total 10

JetBlue
E190 3
JetBlue Total 3

Southwest
B737 6
B738 3
Southwest Total 9

Spirit
A20N 4
A319 7
A320 10
A321 6
Spirit Total 27

United
CRJ7 2
E170 2
E75L 9
United Total 13

Non-Scheduled / Charter
B752 1
Non-Scheduled / Charter Total 1
 
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:59 am

Delta Ops:
Comparison to May 2021

Delta
CRJ2 68 (+10)
CRJ7 19 (-6)
CRJ9 72 (+13)
E170 6 (+1)
E75S 23 (-9)
B712 26 (+18)
BCS1 4 (-11)
BCS3 4 (+4)
A319 10 (-1)
A320 4 (+1)
B738 3 (+3)
B739 19 (-3)
A321 41 (+14)
B752 15 (-1)
B753 6 (-2)
B763 2 (+1)
B764 0 (-1)
A332 1 (-5)
A333 2 (+1)
A359 3 (-)

Delta Total 328 (+27)

---
Comparison to Summer 2019
CRJ2 86 / 68 (-18)
CRJ7 52 / 19 (-33)
CRJ9 113 / 72 (-41)
E170 6 / 6 (-)
E75S 0 / 23 (+23)
B712 33 / 26 (-7)
BCS1 7 / 4 (-3)
BCS3 0 / 4 (+4)
A319 28 / 10 (-18)
A320 24 / 4 (-20)
B738 2 / 3 (+1)
B739 28 / 19 (-9)
A321 38 / 41 (+3)
B752 21 / 15 (-6)
B753 6 / 6 (-)
B763 6 / 2 (-4)
B764 1 / 0 (-1)
A332 2 / 1 (-1)
A333 3 / 2 (-1)
A359 5 / 3 (-2)

Delta Total 461 / 328 (-133)

Mainline: 204 / 140 (-64)
DCI: 257 / 188 (-69)
% Mainline: 44.2% vs. 42.6% (based on # of departures)

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