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PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:12 am

Commentary:

- AA periodically flying the 737Max8 on DTW-MIA, first scheduled MAX route to/from DTW
- UA still does not have regular, daily, consistent mainline, flew periodically on DEN in Feb / Mar, and periodically on IAH more recently but no mainline today
- NK has reduced a few departures off its spring break peak in April/May
- B6 swapped a JFK flight for a BOS flight

- DL added back nearly 30 additional flights for June, primarily restoring frequency in a number of markets, bringing most of the large and mid-sized connect markets up to 3-5 per day.
- PDX, PVD, CHA are restored this month
- Big ramp-up in 717 flying again this month, from 8 to 26; destinations include BNA, CLT, GRR, IND, JAX, MCI, MKE, MSY, MYR, RDU, STL, TVC
- Domestic widebody flying down significantly (as international routes resume across the network); today only included 4 flights (ATL - 332, 333, 76W & SAN - 333)

-
 
DTWorld
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:19 am

Water main break reported in the McNamara around 3:30-4pm. All restrooms north of A54 were working, but restaurants were closed early. The Sky Clubs only had bottled water and granola bars.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:18 pm

....ah water main breaks in the terminal....reminisent of the good 'ole Davey Terminal days.
At least the baggage claim doesn't flood everytime there is a heavy rainstorm passing over the airport like the good 'ole days.

In-and-out of DTW again this week a few more observations / comments:

- Self-serve buffet option in the Skyclub is back (as was indicated by a poster up-thread). At least in the main club, its self-serve food hot/cold options just like it was before. They are still using a bartender....I have a suspicion the self-serve bar probably isn't coming back. (Pro's and con's - the bartender is actually more orderly than the free-for-all and people who struggle to serve themselves, but no longer can you make yourself a triple....)

- Any idea what the loading-dock shed/building is they bolted on to the high-end of the closed-off C gates (~C33)? Looks like they dropped in a few portable storage units on the ramp with some type of loading dock doors. Is it for catering?
 
Robert16627
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jul 05, 2021 4:14 am

Speedbird 787-8 dropped into DTW today to take some Golfers who are apart of the PGA Tour to the Open Championship. Nice to see them back here again.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:13 pm

Sign is up in the Center-A / Main Skyclub that the "new" SkyClub across the corridor by A43 is scheduled to open in Fall 2021.
 
highlanderfil
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Jul 14, 2021 2:27 am

Any idea when/if direct LHR flights will return this year?
 
jplatts
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 18, 2021 2:15 am

Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN flights out of DTW in April 2021:
BNA-DTW - 15584 passengers, 18504 seats, 84.22% load factor
BWI-DTW - 13585 passengers, 18207 seats, 74.61% load factor
DEN-DTW - 8444 passengers, 9572 seats, 88.22% load factor
DTW-HOU - 8143 passengers, 10530 seats, 77.33% load factor
DTW-MCO - 2140 passengers, 2751 seats, 77.79% load factor
DTW-MDW - 16079 passengers, 19255 seats, 83.51% load factor
DTW-PHX - 3901 passengers, 4262 seats, 91.53% load factor
DTW-RSW - 418 passengers, 811 seats, 51.54% load factor
DTW-TPA - 1119 passengers, 1208 seats, 92.63% load factor
 
WA707atMSP
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:12 am

jplatts wrote:
Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN flights out of DTW in April 2021:
BNA-DTW - 15584 passengers, 18504 seats, 84.22% load factor
BWI-DTW - 13585 passengers, 18207 seats, 74.61% load factor
DEN-DTW - 8444 passengers, 9572 seats, 88.22% load factor
DTW-HOU - 8143 passengers, 10530 seats, 77.33% load factor
DTW-MCO - 2140 passengers, 2751 seats, 77.79% load factor
DTW-MDW - 16079 passengers, 19255 seats, 83.51% load factor
DTW-PHX - 3901 passengers, 4262 seats, 91.53% load factor
DTW-RSW - 418 passengers, 811 seats, 51.54% load factor
DTW-TPA - 1119 passengers, 1208 seats, 92.63% load factor


Thanks for sharing this information. It's interesting that WN carried almost as many people on BNA as they did on MDW; another reminder of how much the air travel market between Detroit and Chicago has decreased.
 
BowlingShoeDC9
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:26 pm

DL is running an A359 to Minneapolis in about an hour. Had to do a double take when I walked by and saw that on the screen.
 
WidebodyPTV
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:19 pm

BowlingShoeDC9 wrote:
DL is running an A359 to Minneapolis in about an hour. Had to do a double take when I walked by and saw that on the screen.


Yeah, they're running the 359 between DTW & MSP for the summer. The schedule's something like 2x on Wed going West, and 1x Wed & 1x Thur going East.

I see that in September, one of my DTW-SLC flights changed to a 359. I'm too lazy to check & see if it's a one off, but good to see the aircraft in the domestic system.
 
WidebodyPTV
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:07 pm

Over the weekend, DL rolled out its updated September schedule. It appears DL's trimmed a handful a minimal number of flights, but what's noticeable is how low the fares are. Short-haul destinations like CVG, IND & PIT are pricing out from RT$159, without a Saturday night stay. First Class options are available to WAS and NYC from RT$300, and to Florida from RT$338. Crazy -- these are about the lowest I've EVER seen these airfares. DL generally milks the local business market on the short-haul flights, causing the leisure traffic to drive. And crap, you usually can't get an economy ticket into NYC that cheap (it's also worth mentioning that it appears DL dropped a flight into LGA, vs. the previous schedule).

For the a.net posts I read about how business travel is going to come roaring back in September... the fares certainly don't reflect it. Nor is it just DTW experiencing historically low fares. Interestingly, DL did upgauge most of the ATL-LAS flights to widebodies, but fares dropped as low as OW$69.
 
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Keith2004
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:41 pm

highlanderfil wrote:
Any idea when/if direct LHR flights will return this year?


I see it on the schedule for Tuesdays starting in November. Seems random to be only on Tuesdays.
 
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Keith2004
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:11 pm

Update: DTW-LHR is back Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday starting in November, but that far out who knows of it stays on the schedule.
 
highlanderfil
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:58 am

Anyone know if/why DL967 (DTW-LAX) is supposed to switch to the 757 on August 4th? It's been operated by a 321 for the past two weeks (at least), but supposedly flips to the Boeing on Wednesday.
 
umichman
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:20 am

WidebodyPTV wrote:
Over the weekend, DL rolled out its updated September schedule. It appears DL's trimmed a handful a minimal number of flights, but what's noticeable is how low the fares are. Short-haul destinations like CVG, IND & PIT are pricing out from RT$159, without a Saturday night stay. First Class options are available to WAS and NYC from RT$300, and to Florida from RT$338. Crazy -- these are about the lowest I've EVER seen these airfares. DL generally milks the local business market on the short-haul flights, causing the leisure traffic to drive. And crap, you usually can't get an economy ticket into NYC that cheap (it's also worth mentioning that it appears DL dropped a flight into LGA, vs. the previous schedule).

For the a.net posts I read about how business travel is going to come roaring back in September... the fares certainly don't reflect it. Nor is it just DTW experiencing historically low fares. Interestingly, DL did upgauge most of the ATL-LAS flights to widebodies, but fares dropped as low as OW$69.



Fares normally drop-off in September due to big drop-off in leisure travel demand from summer season. Any pickup in business travel is unlikely to make much of a dent compared to leisure dropoff. Airlines have extended reduced schedules into the fall now -- AA/DL through Nov 1st, UA through Oct 31st, WN through Nov 6th, and AS through end of year.
 
WidebodyPTV
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:29 am

umichman wrote:
Fares normally drop-off in September due to big drop-off in leisure travel demand from summer season. Any pickup in business travel is unlikely to make much of a dent compared to leisure dropoff. Airlines have extended reduced schedules into the fall now -- AA/DL through Nov 1st, UA through Oct 31st, WN through Nov 6th, and AS through end of year.


Yes, leisure fares drop off in the fall, but not to the level that I’ve described. LAX is as low as (all RT) $220ish, Florida $100, LAS $200. These are NK-like fares… of course, NK is RT$76 into SNA most of the fall…
 
umichman
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:09 am

WidebodyPTV wrote:
umichman wrote:
Fares normally drop-off in September due to big drop-off in leisure travel demand from summer season. Any pickup in business travel is unlikely to make much of a dent compared to leisure dropoff. Airlines have extended reduced schedules into the fall now -- AA/DL through Nov 1st, UA through Oct 31st, WN through Nov 6th, and AS through end of year.


Yes, leisure fares drop off in the fall, but not to the level that I’ve described. LAX is as low as (all RT) $220ish, Florida $100, LAS $200. These are NK-like fares… of course, NK is RT$76 into SNA most of the fall…


LAX fares are $218.80 VFVQA0BG fares. But they had $178.80 fares (same fare basis code) last May/early June. Cheapest LAS fares have actually not changed since last spring at $198.80 RT. CVG and PIT fares are indeed considerably lower compared to spring/summer. But they are on a par with some heavily discounted fares they had last fall (they were about $4 higher than current $158.80 RT Saturday night stay fares). IND fares (like LAX) are actually higher than they were in spring -- $258.80 RT vs. $218.80 in spring. Historical fare information can be found in ExpertFlyer. So it's a mixed bag, but a lot of it is due to reduced demand in fall compared to summer and more flights have X/V bucket open compared to what you see in the summer where there can be periods where it is never open on flights.
 
WidebodyPTV
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:31 am

umichman wrote:
WidebodyPTV wrote:
umichman wrote:
Fares normally drop-off in September due to big drop-off in leisure travel demand from summer season. Any pickup in business travel is unlikely to make much of a dent compared to leisure dropoff. Airlines have extended reduced schedules into the fall now -- AA/DL through Nov 1st, UA through Oct 31st, WN through Nov 6th, and AS through end of year.


Yes, leisure fares drop off in the fall, but not to the level that I’ve described. LAX is as low as (all RT) $220ish, Florida $100, LAS $200. These are NK-like fares… of course, NK is RT$76 into SNA most of the fall…


LAX fares are $218.80 VFVQA0BG fares. But they had $178.80 fares (same fare basis code) last May/early June. Cheapest LAS fares have actually not changed since last spring at $198.80 RT. CVG and PIT fares are indeed considerably lower compared to spring/summer. But they are on a par with some heavily discounted fares they had last fall (they were about $4 higher than current $158.80 RT Saturday night stay fares). IND fares (like LAX) are actually higher than they were in spring -- $258.80 RT vs. $218.80 in spring. Historical fare information can be found in ExpertFlyer. So it's a mixed bag, but a lot of it is due to reduced demand in fall compared to summer and more flights have X/V bucket open compared to what you see in the summer where there can be periods where it is never open on flights.


…my point is that fares are still near historical lows in spite of the a.net narrative that business travel will be taking off this fall, and we will be smashing travel records. Not sure why you’re comparing fares against the a COVID era…
 
umichman
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:01 am

WidebodyPTV wrote:
…my point is that fares are still near historical lows in spite of the a.net narrative that business travel will be taking off this fall, and we will be smashing travel records. Not sure why you’re comparing fares against the a COVID era…


When you use the term "EVER", I would say that implies both Covid and pre-Covid eras. Fares are certainly generally lower than pre-Covid era, but in most cases are not as low as what was seen when Covid was at it's peak. DL has also been ratcheting up Main Cabin pricing. Prior to Covid, it was generally $30 each-way above BE fares, now it is mostly $40.
 
WidebodyPTV
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:31 am

umichman wrote:
WidebodyPTV wrote:
…my point is that fares are still near historical lows in spite of the a.net narrative that business travel will be taking off this fall, and we will be smashing travel records. Not sure why you’re comparing fares against the a COVID era…


When you use the term "EVER", I would say that implies both Covid and pre-Covid eras. Fares are certainly generally lower than pre-Covid era, but in most cases are not as low as what was seen when Covid was at it's peak. DL has also been ratcheting up Main Cabin pricing. Prior to Covid, it was generally $30 each-way above BE fares, now it is mostly $40.


My context was pretty clear.
 
reasonable
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Aug 04, 2021 3:19 pm

I haven't been at McNamara for a while, but have heard that Delta is building a new Sky Club across from the existing location at mid concourse. I haven't been able to find any news or announcement about this (other than photos of the construction entrance featuring a large rendering). Does anybody have awareness of when it will open and what Delta plans to do with the existing Sky Club?
 
umichman
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Aug 04, 2021 3:38 pm

reasonable wrote:
I haven't been at McNamara for a while, but have heard that Delta is building a new Sky Club across from the existing location at mid concourse. I haven't been able to find any news or announcement about this (other than photos of the construction entrance featuring a large rendering). Does anybody have awareness of when it will open and what Delta plans to do with the existing Sky Club?


It's been reported there's a sign in the main club now indicating that it is supposed to open Fall 2021 -- https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta-a ... lub-5.html
Club will be an addition to current main club and the 3 other Sky Clubs at DTW.
 
reasonable
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:29 pm

It's crazy how there's a whole thread for this on FlyerTalk but so little information. I wonder what would happen if somebody just asked the staff...

@umichman, how do you know if will be an addition and not a replacement?
 
WA707atMSP
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:44 pm

The discussion about Allegiant's new service to FNT made me think about how PTK might have become a regional airport like FNT.

In the 1970s, M-59 was supposed to be upgraded to a freeway from Pontiac to I-96. However, increasing environmental activism in Oakland County (which also killed the northern leg of I-275, which would have run from Novi to Clarkston, and a northwest extension of the Lodge Freeway to meet the unbuilt leg of I-275) prevented M-59's freeway upgrade.

Although PTK is closer to Birmingham and Bloomfield Hills than DTW is, because M-59 is an undivided road between Telegraph and PTK, with many traffic signals, it takes almost as long to drive from Birmingham to PTK as it does to drive from Birmingham to DTW.

PTK's poor road access, and the NIMBYs who have lakeside homes near PTK, make scheduled jet service from PTK unthinkable. If the stretch of M-59 by PTK was a freeway or even a divided surface road like Telegraph, and if the NIMBYs near PTK were less vocal, PTK would be an ideal airport for an airline like Breeze, and it might even be able to support Embraer 175 service on AA* and UA* to places like ORD, CLT, and EWR, because PTK is so close to Birmingham, Bloomfield Hills, and Rochester Hills.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:48 pm

Your M-59 development story predates my time in Michigan. Thanks.

Metro Detroit doesn't need more airport capacity of any form, let alone a new scheduled passenger airport. Both DTW and FNT are underutilized. DTW is a 35-minute drive from Birmingham, with 100+ n/s destinations.
 
WA707atMSP
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:30 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Your M-59 development story predates my time in Michigan. Thanks.

Metro Detroit doesn't need more airport capacity of any form, let alone a new scheduled passenger airport. Both DTW and FNT are underutilized. DTW is a 35-minute drive from Birmingham, with 100+ n/s destinations.


Although DTW is 35 minutes from B'ham, once you get to DTW, you have to allow for additional time to get through security and walk (or take the tram, when it's operational) to your gate. Even though I'm Pre Check, this takes at least 15 to 20 minutes. People who drive to the airport need to allow extra time to park.

If I had a choice between a 20 minute drive from B'ham to PTK (which is how long it would take if M-59 was a freeway), plus five minutes to get through security and walk to the gate, versus 35 or 40 minutes' drive from B'ham to DTW, plus another 20 minutes to get to my gate, I'd gladly choose to fly out of PTK....and I think other people who live in southern Oakland County would feel the same way.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 13, 2021 2:33 pm

I mentioned up-thread, that in July the sign appeared in the DTW Main Skyclub that the new Skyclub across the atrium by A43 is scheduled to open Fall 2021.

This new SkyClub has been in the works and known since at least 2019 and was delayed by COVID.
There was an announcment that DTW was getting a new SkyClub, since in the pre-COVID era, the main center A club was increasingly becoming over-packed during peak times, and also to a lesser extent the North & South A clubs were too. I can tell you that several times, in the North & South A clubs it was impossible to find a seat, pre-renovation during peak times.

The new club started build-out / construction in late 2019 and was originally scheduled to open in Summer 2020. Obviously it was delayed and now based on the signage planning to reopen this fall. It is going to be a new-net club, not a replacement. Although there were rumors that once the new A43 club opens, the Main Center A club may close for a bit for renovations.
My guess is that it has limited hours compared to the Main Center A club, (e.g,. like afternoon & evenings only during when the international departures all go out).
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 13, 2021 2:42 pm

WA707atMSP wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Your M-59 development story predates my time in Michigan. Thanks.

Metro Detroit doesn't need more airport capacity of any form, let alone a new scheduled passenger airport. Both DTW and FNT are underutilized. DTW is a 35-minute drive from Birmingham, with 100+ n/s destinations.


Although DTW is 35 minutes from B'ham, once you get to DTW, you have to allow for additional time to get through security and walk (or take the tram, when it's operational) to your gate. Even though I'm Pre Check, this takes at least 15 to 20 minutes. People who drive to the airport need to allow extra time to park.

If I had a choice between a 20 minute drive from B'ham to PTK (which is how long it would take if M-59 was a freeway), plus five minutes to get through security and walk to the gate, versus 35 or 40 minutes' drive from B'ham to DTW, plus another 20 minutes to get to my gate, I'd gladly choose to fly out of PTK....and I think other people who live in southern Oakland County would feel the same way.

DTW is one of the easiest large airports to navigate. I routinely leave my house 90 minutes before departure, out in Western Oakland county and easily make my flight with time to spare, even having time to duck into the SkyClub. Granted this involved, parking in the terminal garage, carry-on only, TSA precheck. I routinely pull into the garage at T-45 to T-60 before departure. I've done it at T-30 on Monday morning pre-Covid and had a departure from A7 and still made the flight (that was a big of a rush through).

Zero need for additional airline infrastructure at PTK. Its best suited for non-121 service. If niche or boutique service like Lakeshore Express, there are some niche quasi-leisure high-end markets to exploit. Then again, when you start getting into that market, thats more the territory for the NetJets crowd.
 
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tjwgrr
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:48 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Zero need for additional airline infrastructure at PTK. Its best suited for non-121 service. If niche or boutique service like Lakeshore Express, there are some niche quasi-leisure high-end markets to exploit. Then again, when you start getting into that market, thats more the territory for the NetJets crowd.


Wasn't there a "terminal" with a jetway for the Daimler Chrysler A319CJ shuttle between PTK and STR a number of years ago?
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:14 pm

Pentastar Aviation as the FBO has a jetbridge on their Stargate terminal. Granted, the entire building in only about 10,000 sq ft but it has a jet bridge and a baggage carousel.
"The only privately operated jet bridge in the US"

My dad flew on the PTK-STR DCX shuttle a couple of times and said it was awesome. Roll-up 30 minutes before departure, park in the lot at the terminal. Seats were comparable to J-class at the time (recliners, not lie flats) and on-board service was as good as airline J class.

When sports charters were more frequent into PTK, before the Palace closed, I'm pretty sure they were using the Stargate terminal at jetbridge. I feel like I saw one of the DL NBA 757s on there a few years ago.

https://www.pentastaraviation.com/wp-co ... 053019.pdf
 
WA707atMSP
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:44 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Pentastar Aviation as the FBO has a jetbridge on their Stargate terminal. Granted, the entire building in only about 10,000 sq ft but it has a jet bridge and a baggage carousel.
"The only privately operated jet bridge in the US"

My dad flew on the PTK-STR DCX shuttle a couple of times and said it was awesome. Roll-up 30 minutes before departure, park in the lot at the terminal. Seats were comparable to J-class at the time (recliners, not lie flats) and on-board service was as good as airline J class.

When sports charters were more frequent into PTK, before the Palace closed, I'm pretty sure they were using the Stargate terminal at jetbridge. I feel like I saw one of the DL NBA 757s on there a few years ago.

https://www.pentastaraviation.com/wp-co ... 053019.pdf


Lakeshore Express also used the Stargate terminal for their PTK - MDW / PLN flights, although their Saab 340s did not use the jetway.

I flew Lakeshore Express PTK - MDW in 2013, because I felt it would be my only opportunity to log PTK on a scheduled flight; the last time PTK had scheduled service was in the early 1960s, when North Central stopped at PTK on their YIP-PTK-FNT-MBS route. I enjoyed using the Stargate terminal, because it was so convenient - just a few steps from the curb to the aircraft. Because Lakeshore Express was a public charter, it was also nice that I didn't have to go through security.
 
WidebodyPTV
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 13, 2021 6:05 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Metro Detroit doesn't need more airport capacity of any form, let alone a new scheduled passenger airport. Both DTW and FNT are underutilized. DTW is a 35-minute drive from Birmingham, with 100+ n/s destinations.


It was more of a "what if" scenario. Historically, the majority of FNT's passenger traffic is from (Northern) Oakland County. PTK is roughly 15 miles from my house whereas FNT is 40, yet most of the time I can reach FNT just as quick - or even faster - than PTK. If M-59 would've been built as a freeway instead of the hell it currently is, that wouldn't be true, and it'd be quite possible (if not probable) that PTK would serve as the local regional airport. And FNT would've joined Jackson, MI in commercial airport heaven.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 13, 2021 6:18 pm

I mean PTK opened in what the 1950s / early 60s?
By that time, even before I-75 was built through that part of Oakland County, M-59 from PTK into Pontiac was already pretty well-built up and Waterford / Waterford Twp was a sprawlville suburb of that era. There was no way they were going to be able to convert M-59 to a freeway around/through Pontiac. Road access to travel north/south through the Lakes region of Oakland County is a giant CF during rush hour or school traffic.
 
KarlB737
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 13, 2021 6:33 pm

WA707atMSP wrote:
........... made me think about how PTK might have become a regional airport like FNT.


My recollection at the time also included statements from PTK's management that repeatedly wanted the airport to remain just as it is --- just a regional airport. They felt that FNT provided what was needed for airline service in the area and that they were going to support FNT in those efforts.

WA707atMSP wrote:
...........which also killed the northern leg of I-275, which would have run from Novi to Clarkston,


I also heard that one man fought the extension of I-275 further to the north tooth and nail and after that moved out of the area.
 
dtw9
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 13, 2021 7:27 pm

If you go back to the 50’s,60’s and into the early 70’s it was Northwestern Highway that was to be extended to US 23. That plan died in the early 70’s When I-275 was proposed MDOT resurrected the plan for Northwestern to tie into I-275 but by that time all of the property that had been accumulated by MDOT had already been sold off.
 
WA707atMSP
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Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 13, 2021 7:37 pm

WidebodyPTV wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Metro Detroit doesn't need more airport capacity of any form, let alone a new scheduled passenger airport. Both DTW and FNT are underutilized. DTW is a 35-minute drive from Birmingham, with 100+ n/s destinations.


It was more of a "what if" scenario. Historically, the majority of FNT's passenger traffic is from (Northern) Oakland County. PTK is roughly 15 miles from my house whereas FNT is 40, yet most of the time I can reach FNT just as quick - or even faster - than PTK. If M-59 would've been built as a freeway instead of the hell it currently is, that wouldn't be true, and it'd be quite possible (if not probable) that PTK would serve as the local regional airport. And FNT would've joined Jackson, MI in commercial airport heaven.


A North Central ad from 1962 says they served 33 cities (not 33 airports) in Michigan:

Alpena, Battle Creek, Bay City, Benton Harbor, Cadillac, Cheboygan, Detroit, Escanaba, Flint, Grand Rapids, Harbor Springs, Hancock, Houghton, Ironwood, Iron Mountain, Jackson, Kalamazoo, Lansing, Ludington, Manistee, Marquette, Midland, Menominee, Muskegon, Pellston, Petoskey, Port Huron, Pontiac, Reed City, Saginaw, Sault Ste Marie, St Joseph, and Traverse City.

Even though some of these cities (like Bay City, Midland, and Saginaw) were served through one airport, that's still a LOT of cities served in Michigan....and many cities, like Port Huron and Cadillac, are unlikely to ever again have scheduled air service.
 
GSP psgr
Posts: 805
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:09 am

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 13, 2021 7:56 pm

Here's an interesting census map showing growth/decline in the metro Detroit area:

Image
 
jplatts
Posts: 5297
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:56 pm

Here are the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN flights out of DTW in May 2021:
BNA-DTW - 16329 passengers, 19859 seats, 82.22% load factor
BWI-DTW - 13954 passengers, 19556 seats, 71.35% load factor
DEN-DTW - 12505 passengers, 14660 seats, 85.30% load factor
DTW-HOU - 8485 passengers, 10114 seats, 83.89% load factor
DTW-LAS - 800 passengers, 858 seats, 93.24% load factor
DTW-MCO - 1961 passengers, 2655 seats, 73.86% load factor
DTW-MDW - 17941 passengers, 22247 seats, 80.64% load factor
DTW-PHX - 1525 passengers, 1750 seats, 87.14% load factor
DTW-RSW - 711 passengers, 1590 seats, 44.72% load factor
DTW-TPA - 1104 passengers, 1430 seats, 77.20% load factor
 
Web
Posts: 356
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:56 am

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:56 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
- Any idea what the loading-dock shed/building is they bolted on to the high-end of the closed-off C gates (~C33)? Looks like they dropped in a few portable storage units on the ramp with some type of loading dock doors. Is it for catering?

It is indeed for catering. Do&Co cleared out of the north end of A (gate A70 or thereabouts) and is now operating out of these new portable units.

Some recent DL / McNamara updates:
- HPN has returned 1X daily.
- ANC has been running 2X weekly (Fri/Sat), and now on a 752 vs. a 1X weekly 753. Loads have looked very good; hopefully this becomes a seasonal staple.
- BGR, RAP, BZN loads have also looked good throughout the summer.
- PDX seems to operate sporadically, now 3X weekly, often on a 752.
- Ramp resurfacing from ~A15 to A35 looks to be complete minus striping. Now they're working on twy J7 further south, so it'll be a while before those gates reopen.
- Low C gates (C1 - C7) have reopened and are used occasionally.
- P.F. Chang's & Chick-Fil-A have reopened.
 
WidebodyPTV
Posts: 782
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:06 pm

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:16 pm

Web wrote:
- ANC has been running 2X weekly (Fri/Sat), and now on a 752 vs. a 1X weekly 753. Loads have looked very good; hopefully this becomes a seasonal staple.


It'd be nice to see this route return: NW operated seasonal DTW-ANC for many years, occasionally with a DC-10. I once flew the route in the early 2000s, and our ride was upgauged to the 744! DL ended the route shortly after the merger, during the height of the Great Recession. Given the growth in traffic at ANC in the several years (ORD, for example, grew from 2 peak-day departures to 6, pre-COVID), it's somewhat surprising DL hasn't added a seasonal flight in limited frequency.

PDX seems to operate sporadically, now 3X weekly, often on a 752.


This one really stings: for years, DL underserves the market, operating DTW/PDX in limited capacity, largely as a late evening departure westbound and redeye eastbound. AS & NK add the route, DL responds by making the route twice daily & upgauges equipment. AS & NK withdraw from the route, DL goes back to even less frequency/capacity than it offered before they added service. Meanwhile, we're forced to connect every time we travel to/from PDX. ATL/PDX is set to go all 767 next month... DL couldn't move a few seats over to fund a large hub?

Most of my flying has been via FNT on UA. It wasn't planned that way, but it's worked out well...
 
iFlyDTW
Posts: 288
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2016 3:33 pm

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:14 pm

With Frontier recently announcing service to the new Atlanta base, what do you all think the odds are we see an off daily Tampa flight announced for this winter? I saw someone post it on a DTW Facebook page that the market to Tampa is sufficient enough for a second ULCC.
 
WidebodyPTV
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Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:06 pm

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:26 pm

iFlyDTW wrote:
With Frontier recently announcing service to the new Atlanta base, what do you all think the odds are we see an off daily Tampa flight announced for this winter? I saw someone post it on a DTW Facebook page that the market to Tampa is sufficient enough for a second ULCC.


F9 likes to throw darts and see what sticks, and they've been building up TPA, so it's a possibility. OTOH, F9 doesn't appear to be too successful at DTW -- when I was poking around the other day, LAS and MCO were priced at $18 most days throughout the fall. WN will be resuming LAS & PHX shortly, and will keeping MCO, so things will get interesting.
 
iFlyDTW
Posts: 288
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2016 3:33 pm

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Aug 19, 2021 1:57 pm

WidebodyPTV wrote:
iFlyDTW wrote:
With Frontier recently announcing service to the new Atlanta base, what do you all think the odds are we see an off daily Tampa flight announced for this winter? I saw someone post it on a DTW Facebook page that the market to Tampa is sufficient enough for a second ULCC.


F9 likes to throw darts and see what sticks, and they've been building up TPA, so it's a possibility. OTOH, F9 doesn't appear to be too successful at DTW -- when I was poking around the other day, LAS and MCO were priced at $18 most days throughout the fall. WN will be resuming LAS & PHX shortly, and will keeping MCO, so things will get interesting.
I noticed Southwest flies to Tampa on the weekends too. For the higher prices they are charging for these direct Florida flights it makes me wonder what position they will take at DTW moving forward.
 
WidebodyPTV
Posts: 782
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:06 pm

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Aug 19, 2021 6:46 pm

iFlyDTW wrote:
I noticed Southwest flies to Tampa on the weekends too. For the higher prices they are charging for these direct Florida flights it makes me wonder what position they will take at DTW moving forward.


Per @jplatts's postings above, I wouldn't expect the Florida service to last long. Hard to believe that 15 years ago, FL surpassed NK as DTW's #2 airline to Florida!

Ironically, WN was often the least expensive option to MCO throughout the peak summer season. And pricing fluctuates, but they've been very competitive on the route. For most of the fall, their pricing mimics DL's -- $69 to $89 each way. NK & F9's (they may have dropped the route, at least for the season) lowest fare range is $18 to $38. For many families, WN's inclusion of two checked bags makes it by far the best value.

DL's recent modification to Basic Economy deteriorates the product. Previously, once you were assigned a seat -- usually after check-in, but sometimes at the gate -- you could change it through the app. Now, DL locks the seat assignment. This means that as gate agents release seats (no shows, blocked seats, etc.), you can't move into them. Something we usually counted on...
 
DaveMetroD
Posts: 129
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:05 pm

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 20, 2021 4:36 pm

Google has updated the DTW imagery as of March 19, 2021.
It shows Taxiway P, the end-around-taxiway berm at the south end of 21R/3L and the new central deice facility (south of the North Terminal) with taxiway/RON parking changes.

And I have a question. Is the northeast deice pad next to the 21R end going to be removed? It still shows on the airport diagram.
 
iFlyDTW
Posts: 288
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2016 3:33 pm

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 22, 2021 1:44 pm

Lufthansa will be sending the A340 again soon. Friends who work in the belly are loading a lot of auto related cargo on top of decent passenger loads.
 
WidebodyPTV
Posts: 782
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:06 pm

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:49 pm

iFlyDTW wrote:
Lufthansa will be sending the A340 again soon. Friends who work in the belly are loading a lot of auto related cargo on top of decent passenger loads.


The 343 is only briefly scheduled - but LH has rotated between the 333, 343 & 346 in recent years, so I wouldn't be surprised to see it return. But as the 343 is now a rare bird, and won't be around much longer in LH's fleet, it makes for great photo ops.
 
EBiafore99
Posts: 164
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:03 pm

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 24, 2021 12:02 pm

So I was looking at RJ's schedule for an upcoming trip. I found it interesting that RJ is running both AMM-DTW-AMM and AMM-YUL-DTW-YUL-AMM on Mondays and Thursdays (essentially two flights on both days). I had to do a double check because I thought I was reading the schedule wrong, but I'm not. Anyone with insights on this?
 
DaveMetroD
Posts: 129
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:05 pm

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:20 pm

EBiafore99 wrote:
So I was looking at RJ's schedule for an upcoming trip. I found it interesting that RJ is running both AMM-DTW-AMM and AMM-YUL-DTW-YUL-AMM on Mondays and Thursdays (essentially two flights on both days). I had to do a double check because I thought I was reading the schedule wrong, but I'm not. Anyone with insights on this?

Interesting indeed. Thought maybe the YUL stop messed things up.
But no. Flight numbers 267-268 are non-stop and 269-270 are the YUL stops.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 10452
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: DTW Detroit Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:41 pm

EBiafore99 wrote:
So I found it interesting that RJ is running both AMM-DTW-AMM and AMM-YUL-DTW-YUL-AMM on Mondays and Thursdays (essentially two flights on both days). I had to do a double check because I thought I was reading the schedule wrong, but I'm not. Anyone with insights on this?


Have you identified the start and end dates for the 2x services?

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