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janders
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Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:51 pm

Welcome to the 2021 Delta Air Lines network thread.

Please continue the discussions below.

Link to the previous edition: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1438137
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
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Boeing757100
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:21 am

ATL-JNB-CPT-ATL is delayed to March 28 2021.
Boeing is bringing back the 707 tomorrow, with Shinkai as the Chief Executive Officer and FLAIRPORT as the Chief Financial Officer.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ub82Xb1 ... iceboxHero
 
hoons90
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:28 am

Boeing757100 wrote:
ATL-JNB-CPT-ATL is delayed to March 28 2021.


Same for ICN-MNL
Flown: 2L 7C 9E 9L AA AB AC AF AY AZ BA BR BX B6 CA CO CP CX DL EK EY JL KE KL LA LH LX MQ NW OZ PD RW SQ TG TP TR TS US WG WN WS XE XJ
 
rjbesikof
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:30 am

hoons90 wrote:
Boeing757100 wrote:
ATL-JNB-CPT-ATL is delayed to March 28 2021.


Same for ICN-MNL


ICN-MNL started today.
 
hoons90
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:57 am

rjbesikof wrote:
hoons90 wrote:
Boeing757100 wrote:
ATL-JNB-CPT-ATL is delayed to March 28 2021.


Same for ICN-MNL


ICN-MNL started today.


Oops. I stand corrected.
Someone posted on Twitter that it was postponed, but I guess not. My apologies.
Flown: 2L 7C 9E 9L AA AB AC AF AY AZ BA BR BX B6 CA CO CP CX DL EK EY JL KE KL LA LH LX MQ NW OZ PD RW SQ TG TP TR TS US WG WN WS XE XJ
 
Ishrion
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:01 am

rjbesikof wrote:
hoons90 wrote:
Boeing757100 wrote:
ATL-JNB-CPT-ATL is delayed to March 28 2021.


Same for ICN-MNL


ICN-MNL started today.


It doesn't seem to be bookable in January though. Is it cargo-only?
 
x1234
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:15 am

So in Asia DL is the only US3 with wide-body service to MNL (there is UA service to GUM). I still think DL has a chance to make SEA-MNL work. Hell I think DL can make SEA-SIN work too. UA has said that in their Pacific network SIN consistently has the highest yield and pre-COVID was sold out on most days in J and Y. SIN is also the most westernized asian country.
 
panamair
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:32 am

Ishrion wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
hoons90 wrote:

Same for ICN-MNL


ICN-MNL started today.


It doesn't seem to be bookable in January though. Is it cargo-only?


It appears only bookable for MNL-USA itineraries but not just the local MNL-ICN segment (for at least Jan and Feb). Local MNL-ICN looks like it's bookable from March 1 onwards. Also note that DL is operating the service out of MNL only 4x weekly (Tue Thu Fri Sun) for now.
 
filipinoavgeek
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:51 am

Any news if PR resumed CTS or is that still suspended? Given the recent travel bans to Japan and all.

panamair wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:

ICN-MNL started today.


It doesn't seem to be bookable in January though. Is it cargo-only?


It appears only bookable for MNL-USA itineraries but not just the local MNL-ICN segment (for at least Jan and Feb). Local MNL-ICN looks like it's bookable from March 1 onwards. Also note that DL is operating the service out of MNL only 4x weekly (Tue Thu Fri Sun) for now.


Given that travel to the US is currently suspended for non-Filipino citizens for a while, the timing is sadly pretty bad.
RIP 9V-SKA
2007 - 2019
 
hoons90
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:01 am

I noticed that ICN-MNL-ICN uses standalone flight numbers 291/290. These flight numbers are not attached to any flight that touches the US. Would that technically make it a 7th freedom flight, and not a 5th freedom one?
Flown: 2L 7C 9E 9L AA AB AC AF AY AZ BA BR BX B6 CA CO CP CX DL EK EY JL KE KL LA LH LX MQ NW OZ PD RW SQ TG TP TR TS US WG WN WS XE XJ
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:00 pm

x1234 wrote:
So in Asia DL is the only US3 with wide-body service to MNL (there is UA service to GUM). I still think DL has a chance to make SEA-MNL work. Hell I think DL can make SEA-SIN work too. UA has said that in their Pacific network SIN consistently has the highest yield and pre-COVID was sold out on most days in J and Y. SIN is also the most westernized asian country.


Can DL's A359 do SEA-SIN nonstop configured as it is? I'd agree it is a route and market DL eventually should be in. Most "westernized" country? What does that mean or have to do with route planning?
 
dcajet
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:18 am

Effective Jan 5th, DL101/110 ATL-EZE-ATL upgauges from the 764 to the A333. The 764 should return to the route in late March.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
onwFan
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:17 am

KE will gain an extra 2x daily ICN-MNL through the merger with OZ. I guess that fixes the original need for the DL segment? Unless they think they need to fly 5x daily ICN-MNL....
 
seat1a
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:22 am

Any info on routes for the new A220-300? Thanks!
 
panamair
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:09 am

dcajet wrote:
Effective Jan 5th, DL101/110 ATL-EZE-ATL upgauges from the 764 to the A333. The 764 should return to the route in late March.


Same with ATL-SCL; will upgauge to an A333 from the 764 starting Jan 6.
 
gsg013
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:56 pm

seat1a wrote:
Any info on routes for the new A220-300? Thanks!


I noticed yesterday it was flying SLC-DEN not saying this is the only route but this is just one I noticed

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL ... /KSLC/KDEN
 
jb1087xna
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:04 pm

seat1a wrote:
Any info on routes for the new A220-300? Thanks!


These are some routes in the last week:

SLC-AUS
SLC-DEN
SLC-DFW
SLC-SMF
SLC-SNA

No clue what the longer term plan is...those are just where they've been flying in the last few days.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:05 pm

2 more A223's are finishing-up induction in ATL and ferrying to SLC today, and will be put into service this week. That will bring it up to 4 A220-300s in service.

Currently on routes out of SLC - AUS, DEN, SMF, SNA.
Occasionally show-up on SLC - DFW, IAH, BOI
 
phatfarmlines
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:34 pm

x1234 wrote:
I still think DL has a chance to make SEA-MNL work. Hell I think DL can make SEA-SIN work too.


(Note this assumes pre- and post-COVID environments) The problem is DL didn't jump on the opportunity when it had a chance. With both PR on SEA-MNL and SQ on SEA-SIN and PR using AA codeshare and SQ using AS codeshare in SEA, it will be tougher for DL to build a viable connection network with existing competition and a potentially growing threat of AA in that region. Not to mention DL doesn't have the 77L anymore which would have been critical for SIN service, and would likely push the legs if using the 359. SEA does have the demand, but not the mass of LAX/SFO/YVR yet to support multiple carriers in West Coast-TPAC markets.
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:40 am

As per next week, DL76 to be integrated into the daily schedule ATL - AMS alongside DL72

01/08 DL72 17:45 ATL - AMS 08:15 (01/09) N815NW planned
01/08 DL76 21:55 ATL - AMS 12:10 (01/09) N812NW planned

01/09 DL72 17:45 ATL - AMS 08:15 (01/10) N810NW planned
01/10 DL72 17:45 ATL - AMS 08:15 (01/11)
01/11 DL72 17:45 ATL - AMS 08:15 (01/12)
01/12 DL76 17:45 ATL - AMS 08:15 (01/13)
01/13 DL72 17:45 ATL - AMS 08:15 (01/14)
01/14 DL76 17:45 ATL - AMS 08:15 (01/15)
01/15 DL72 17:45 ATL - AMS 08:15 (01/16)
 
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klm617
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:36 am

Delta is adding Detroit-Brussels cargo flights.

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/delt ... troit-u-s/
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:47 pm

As per this week, DL reducing frequency of TATL flights to AMS:

DL46 1739 JFK - AMS 0650 - 5 weekly instead of daily
M T T S S

DL 142 - 1333 SEA - AMS 0810 - 5 weekly instead of daily
M T T S S

DL160 1649 MSP - AMS 0815 - 5 weekly instead of daily
M W F S S

DL72 1745 ATL - AMS 0815 - 3 weekly alternating with DL76
T T S

DL76 1745 ATL - AMS 0815 - 4 weekly alternating with DL72
M W F S

DL258 1923 BOS - AMS 0820 - 5 weekly instead of daily
M W F S S

DL134 1850 DTW - AMS 0825 - Daily, no change

DL74 2054 ATL - AMS 1100 - Daily, no change
 
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janders
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:49 pm

Former Bombardier CEO Alain Bellemare will become DL's new President International.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
AC4500
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:48 pm

Delta has updated their interim schedule from March 2 to March 31.

I'm seeing an extra added time bank for SLC flights (the same evening timebank that they scheduled during the holiday season). Perhaps they're relying on a possible slight uptick in traffic for spring break traveling.
 
AC4500
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:56 pm

Their SEA schedule seems to be fairly strong as well (relatively speaking).
 
rjbesikof
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:08 pm

AC4500 wrote:
Delta has updated their interim schedule from March 2 to March 31.

I'm seeing an extra added time bank for SLC flights (the same evening timebank that they scheduled during the holiday season). Perhaps they're relying on a possible slight uptick in traffic for spring break traveling.


Did they add any new international routes in the March schedule?
 
rjbesikof
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:27 pm

AC4500 wrote:
Their SEA schedule seems to be fairly strong as well (relatively speaking).


Internationally, they are switching the 2 weekly Shanghai Pudong flights from SEA to DTW. Why are they doing this?
https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s?__biz=MzAwMD ... t_redirect
 
fly4ever78
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:50 pm

rjbesikof wrote:
AC4500 wrote:
Their SEA schedule seems to be fairly strong as well (relatively speaking).


Internationally, they are switching the 2 weekly Shanghai Pudong flights from SEA to DTW. Why are they doing this?
https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s?__biz=MzAwMD ... t_redirect


Word is they are moving it to DTW to better support customers attempting to get clearance to travel to China.
 
panamair
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:52 am

Some LAX changes loaded this past weekend:

- LAX-IAH gets new 2x daily on the CS1
- LAX-OAK is back 3x daily with the E75
- Additional daily flight on LAX-MCO/TPA/BNA/RDU and MEX
- LAX-CMH appears to be gone ‘permanently’
 
AC4500
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:43 pm

panamair wrote:
Some LAX changes loaded this past weekend:

- LAX-IAH gets new 2x daily on the CS1
- LAX-OAK is back 3x daily with the E75
- Additional daily flight on LAX-MCO/TPA/BNA/RDU and MEX
- LAX-CMH appears to be gone ‘permanently’

It will be interesting seeing DL's LAX strategy going forward, as they seem to be readjusting their LAX network whereas AA is retreating from a lot of their pre-COVID LAX routes.
 
AC4500
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:47 pm

I'm looking at DL's schedule for mid-April (where their interim schedule is updated to so far), and it seems like they are back to pre-COVID levels on a very large portion of their SLC routes. I realize that they're still blocking middle seats and that lots can change between now and mid-April, but it seems like SLC may be the first DL hub to officially fully recover from the COVID-19 downturn.
 
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NCAD95
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:31 pm

AC4500 wrote:
I'm looking at DL's schedule for mid-April (where their interim schedule is updated to so far), and it seems like they are back to pre-COVID levels on a very large portion of their SLC routes. I realize that they're still blocking middle seats and that lots can change between now and mid-April, but it seems like SLC may be the first DL hub to officially fully recover from the COVID-19 downturn.


There is still no TATL flights either.
 
AC4500
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:28 pm

NCAD95 wrote:
AC4500 wrote:
I'm looking at DL's schedule for mid-April (where their interim schedule is updated to so far), and it seems like they are back to pre-COVID levels on a very large portion of their SLC routes. I realize that they're still blocking middle seats and that lots can change between now and mid-April, but it seems like SLC may be the first DL hub to officially fully recover from the COVID-19 downturn.


There is still no TATL flights either.

True, I was referring to domestic routes though.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:31 pm

This summer DEN and SLC were the airports with the least passenger declines. Lots of tourists wanting to go to "outdoor" destinations in the mountains and these are very fast growing young population cities so lots of families live elsewhere. More emergencies where people had to go home or isolated single family members etc common in a fast growing young area.

I think we will see SLC and DEN hubs up to speed much faster than other hubs. Ski demand has been there this winter too. People want to hit the slopes outside wearing a mask instead of visiting NYC or Disneyland or New Orleans etc. They know the national park outdoor demand will be back this summer again.

Traffic for July by a national average was down 73% compared to the same month a year earlier, while Salt Lake was down by 65% and Denver was down by 61%. The Mountain West traffic is doing very well compared to other cities and national averages. IE why we have seen airlines adding small idaho airports, Durango, Grand Junction, Montana they know the leisure mountain outfdoor destinations will have demand. City tourism and business travel, won't be back this year. I bet we see SLC and DEN have much closer to full schedules this summer than other hubs
 
DLASFlyer
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 14, 2021 11:03 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
This summer DEN and SLC were the airports with the least passenger declines. Lots of tourists wanting to go to "outdoor" destinations in the mountains and these are very fast growing young population cities so lots of families live elsewhere. More emergencies where people had to go home or isolated single family members etc common in a fast growing young area.

I think we will see SLC and DEN hubs up to speed much faster than other hubs. Ski demand has been there this winter too. People want to hit the slopes outside wearing a mask instead of visiting NYC or Disneyland or New Orleans etc. They know the national park outdoor demand will be back this summer again.

Traffic for July by a national average was down 73% compared to the same month a year earlier, while Salt Lake was down by 65% and Denver was down by 61%. The Mountain West traffic is doing very well compared to other cities and national averages. IE why we have seen airlines adding small idaho airports, Durango, Grand Junction, Montana they know the leisure mountain outfdoor destinations will have demand. City tourism and business travel, won't be back this year. I bet we see SLC and DEN have much closer to full schedules this summer than other hubs


It will be interesting to see how much SLC's gate situation impacts what Delta does. Bus boarding is terrible for social distancing. Will Delta keep flights artificially reduced because of this? I suspect not.

I'm glad SLC saved hundreds of millions but the next few years are going to be rough.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 14, 2021 11:13 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
TThe Mountain West traffic is doing very well compared to other cities and national averages. IE why we have seen airlines adding small idaho airports, Durango, Grand Junction, Montana they know the leisure mountain outfdoor destinations will have demand. City tourism and business travel, won't be back this year. I bet we see SLC and DEN have much closer to full schedules this summer than other hubs


Ehh. DEN and SLC (even more SLC) have a big fraction of connecting traffic. If, for example, DSM travelers don't want to go to LAX this summer they won't be connecting DSM-SLC-LAX. How much do you think DL wants to trash yields chasing SLC O&D?

You can't push an extra (above 2019 levels) 20 million visitors by air through the western National Parks this summer --- there's no place to put them. NPs had already been operating at seasonal capacity. Metro Denver and metro Salt Lake City already represent an outsize fraction of their respective state's hotel supply, and you're discounting urban trips.
 
jplatts
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 14, 2021 11:29 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
This summer DEN and SLC were the airports with the least passenger declines. Lots of tourists wanting to go to "outdoor" destinations in the mountains and these are very fast growing young population cities so lots of families live elsewhere. More emergencies where people had to go home or isolated single family members etc common in a fast growing young area.

I think we will see SLC and DEN hubs up to speed much faster than other hubs. Ski demand has been there this winter too. People want to hit the slopes outside wearing a mask instead of visiting NYC or Disneyland or New Orleans etc. They know the national park outdoor demand will be back this summer again.

Traffic for July by a national average was down 73% compared to the same month a year earlier, while Salt Lake was down by 65% and Denver was down by 61%. The Mountain West traffic is doing very well compared to other cities and national averages. IE why we have seen airlines adding small idaho airports, Durango, Grand Junction, Montana they know the leisure mountain outfdoor destinations will have demand. City tourism and business travel, won't be back this year. I bet we see SLC and DEN have much closer to full schedules this summer than other hubs


There are still some more nonstop routes that could be added by DL out of its SLC hub such as SLC-BUF/BDL/SDF/ORF/RIC/ROC once demand recovers due to (a) the O&D traffic that DL would be getting on these routes if these routes are added by DL and (b) the connecting opportunities that are available to the West Coast, Idaho, Nevada, and Western Montana through SLC.

SDF-SLC is within the range of E-175 regional jets as DL has previously operated a few nonstop routes that are longer than SDF-SLC such as IAH-LGA and MKE-SEA on E-175 regional jets. DL can also operate SLC-BUF/BDL/ORF/RIC/ROC nonstop service using 109-seat A220-100 aircraft that have fewer seats than AA/UA A319's or WN 737-700's.

BUF, BDL, SDF, ORF, RIC, and ROC were top domestic destinations traveled to from SLC prior to the COVID-19 pandemic that aren't currently served nonstop from SLC, and there is also likely enough O&D to support nonstop service to SLC from BUF, BDL, SDF, ORF, RIC, and ROC on DL if demand were at pre-pandemic levels.
 
deltairlines
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:30 am

jplatts wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
This summer DEN and SLC were the airports with the least passenger declines. Lots of tourists wanting to go to "outdoor" destinations in the mountains and these are very fast growing young population cities so lots of families live elsewhere. More emergencies where people had to go home or isolated single family members etc common in a fast growing young area.

I think we will see SLC and DEN hubs up to speed much faster than other hubs. Ski demand has been there this winter too. People want to hit the slopes outside wearing a mask instead of visiting NYC or Disneyland or New Orleans etc. They know the national park outdoor demand will be back this summer again.

Traffic for July by a national average was down 73% compared to the same month a year earlier, while Salt Lake was down by 65% and Denver was down by 61%. The Mountain West traffic is doing very well compared to other cities and national averages. IE why we have seen airlines adding small idaho airports, Durango, Grand Junction, Montana they know the leisure mountain outfdoor destinations will have demand. City tourism and business travel, won't be back this year. I bet we see SLC and DEN have much closer to full schedules this summer than other hubs


There are still some more nonstop routes that could be added by DL out of its SLC hub such as SLC-BUF/BDL/SDF/ORF/RIC/ROC once demand recovers due to (a) the O&D traffic that DL would be getting on these routes if these routes are added by DL and (b) the connecting opportunities that are available to the West Coast, Idaho, Nevada, and Western Montana through SLC.

SDF-SLC is within the range of E-175 regional jets as DL has previously operated a few nonstop routes that are longer than SDF-SLC such as IAH-LGA and MKE-SEA on E-175 regional jets. DL can also operate SLC-BUF/BDL/ORF/RIC/ROC nonstop service using 109-seat A220-100 aircraft that have fewer seats than AA/UA A319's or WN 737-700's.

BUF, BDL, SDF, ORF, RIC, and ROC were top domestic destinations traveled to from SLC prior to the COVID-19 pandemic that aren't currently served nonstop from SLC, and there is also likely enough O&D to support nonstop service to SLC from BUF, BDL, SDF, ORF, RIC, and ROC on DL if demand were at pre-pandemic levels.


There are some problems with this logic. First - Delta only has 45 A220-100s (40 on property, 5 on order). These planes can do a lot of things in the long and thin area, but long means they take up a lot of flight time. All these routes going in and out of SLC would take up a lot of frame time; I'd expect to see the A220s really play more in the NYC, LAX and SEA markets to really go after higher yield nonstop passengers.

The other issue is on how Delta does their network planning - it takes a lot for them to overfly a hub to go to another hub. This has always been the weak spot in SLC going to the east - Minneapolis stands right in the way. Right now, of the cities you mention, only SDF and BDL have year-round MSP (currently BDL is 2x CR9, SDF is 1x CR7). I'd think you need to see year-round to all these cities to MSP before you even start talking SLC. BDL would be the strongest option to get a flight to SLC, but I don't see it with the others.
 
jplatts
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:29 am

deltairlines wrote:
The other issue is on how Delta does their network planning - it takes a lot for them to overfly a hub to go to another hub. This has always been the weak spot in SLC going to the east - Minneapolis stands right in the way. Right now, of the cities you mention, only SDF and BDL have year-round MSP (currently BDL is 2x CR9, SDF is 1x CR7). I'd think you need to see year-round to all these cities to MSP before you even start talking SLC. BDL would be the strongest option to get a flight to SLC, but I don't see it with the others.


The flight path of the SLC-SDF/RIC/ORF nonstop flights would stay to the south of the MSP and DTW hubs instead of overflying the MSP and DTW hubs. DL also already serves both DTW and MSP nonstop from SDF, RIC, and ORF.

AA, AS, and WN have some nonstop routes that overfly other hubs and where the overflown hub isn't served nonstop from the spoke end of the route, such as DEN-CVG/SDF on WN (overflying STL), HOU-OKC on WN (overflying DAL), MKE-BNA on WN (overflying MDW), JFK-AUS/SAT on AA (overflying DCA), and MRY-SEA on AS (overflying PDX).

Even though SLC-BUF/BDL/ROC would overfly the DTW and MSP hubs, it might still make sense for DL to add SLC-BUF/BDL/ROC nonstop service if demand were at pre-pandemic levels as DL would likely have enough O&D traffic to SLC from BUF, BDL, and ROC and enough passengers making connections to destinations west of SLC from BUF, BDL, and ROC to justify SLC-BUF/BDL/ROC nonstop service.

There are also some smaller regional destinations in the Western U.S. that DL serves nonstop from SLC but not from DTW or MSP, and DL adding SLC-BUF/BDL/SDF/ORF/RIC/ROC nonstop service would provide easier connectivity to these smaller regional destinations from BUF, BDL, SDF, ORF, RIC, and ROC.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:33 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
TThe Mountain West traffic is doing very well compared to other cities and national averages. IE why we have seen airlines adding small idaho airports, Durango, Grand Junction, Montana they know the leisure mountain outfdoor destinations will have demand. City tourism and business travel, won't be back this year. I bet we see SLC and DEN have much closer to full schedules this summer than other hubs


Ehh. DEN and SLC (even more SLC) have a big fraction of connecting traffic. If, for example, DSM travelers don't want to go to LAX this summer they won't be connecting DSM-SLC-LAX. How much do you think DL wants to trash yields chasing SLC O&D?

You can't push an extra (above 2019 levels) 20 million visitors by air through the western National Parks this summer --- there's no place to put them. NPs had already been operating at seasonal capacity. Metro Denver and metro Salt Lake City already represent an outsize fraction of their respective state's hotel supply, and you're discounting urban trips.

This.

A big question I've had with all the airlines ramping up and throwing capacity into these national park and smaller mountain west marekts. In pre-COVID era, these places were already at capacity during peak summer from a lodging perspective. Granted, a lot was regional and/or driving traffic, but the limiting factor in most of these places was lack of hotels/lodging/STRs. Throwing more air service doesn't change the equation. There could be some displacement, but by and large a lot of these places are booked up months in advance outside of shoulder season.

The only thing could be is to serve the COVID refugee crowd that has relocated to these markets to WFH/remote workers in vacation homes.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:39 am

jplatts wrote:
deltairlines wrote:
The other issue is on how Delta does their network planning - it takes a lot for them to overfly a hub to go to another hub. This has always been the weak spot in SLC going to the east - Minneapolis stands right in the way. Right now, of the cities you mention, only SDF and BDL have year-round MSP (currently BDL is 2x CR9, SDF is 1x CR7). I'd think you need to see year-round to all these cities to MSP before you even start talking SLC. BDL would be the strongest option to get a flight to SLC, but I don't see it with the others.


The flight path of the SLC-SDF/RIC/ORF nonstop flights would stay to the south of the MSP and DTW hubs instead of overflying the MSP and DTW hubs. DL also already serves both DTW and MSP nonstop from SDF, RIC, and ORF.

AA, AS, and WN have some nonstop routes that overfly other hubs and where the overflown hub isn't served nonstop from the spoke end of the route, such as DEN-CVG/SDF on WN (overflying STL), HOU-OKC on WN (overflying DAL), MKE-BNA on WN (overflying MDW), JFK-AUS/SAT on AA (overflying DCA), and MRY-SEA on AS (overflying PDX).

Even though SLC-BUF/BDL/ROC would overfly the DTW and MSP hubs, it might still make sense for DL to add SLC-BUF/BDL/ROC nonstop service if demand were at pre-pandemic levels as DL would likely have enough O&D traffic to SLC from BUF, BDL, and ROC and enough passengers making connections to destinations west of SLC from BUF, BDL, and ROC to justify SLC-BUF/BDL/ROC nonstop service.

There are also some smaller regional destinations in the Western U.S. that DL serves nonstop from SLC but not from DTW or MSP, and DL adding SLC-BUF/BDL/SDF/ORF/RIC/ROC nonstop service would provide easier connectivity to these smaller regional destinations from BUF, BDL, SDF, ORF, RIC, and ROC.

At some point yes, but probably not summer 2021 for a variety of reasons.

1) Terminal constraints at SLC until construction is complete.
2) SLC and MSP serve many of the same E-W traffic flows, thus for "eastern markets" until they get sufficient demand/capacity through MSP before they will add SLC

CMH is losing its LAX flight, but gaining year-round SLC instead.
GRR is also a next-up to get SLC service

The challenge, as said, is these longer-thinner SLC flights eat-up a lot of aircraft time. The yield has to be there to effectively eat-up 8-10 hours of aircraft time per roundtrip for such routes versus doing shorter stage lengths to ATL/DTW/MSP
 
DeltaRules
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:15 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
jplatts wrote:
deltairlines wrote:
The other issue is on how Delta does their network planning - it takes a lot for them to overfly a hub to go to another hub. This has always been the weak spot in SLC going to the east - Minneapolis stands right in the way. Right now, of the cities you mention, only SDF and BDL have year-round MSP (currently BDL is 2x CR9, SDF is 1x CR7). I'd think you need to see year-round to all these cities to MSP before you even start talking SLC. BDL would be the strongest option to get a flight to SLC, but I don't see it with the others.


The flight path of the SLC-SDF/RIC/ORF nonstop flights would stay to the south of the MSP and DTW hubs instead of overflying the MSP and DTW hubs. DL also already serves both DTW and MSP nonstop from SDF, RIC, and ORF.

AA, AS, and WN have some nonstop routes that overfly other hubs and where the overflown hub isn't served nonstop from the spoke end of the route, such as DEN-CVG/SDF on WN (overflying STL), HOU-OKC on WN (overflying DAL), MKE-BNA on WN (overflying MDW), JFK-AUS/SAT on AA (overflying DCA), and MRY-SEA on AS (overflying PDX).

Even though SLC-BUF/BDL/ROC would overfly the DTW and MSP hubs, it might still make sense for DL to add SLC-BUF/BDL/ROC nonstop service if demand were at pre-pandemic levels as DL would likely have enough O&D traffic to SLC from BUF, BDL, and ROC and enough passengers making connections to destinations west of SLC from BUF, BDL, and ROC to justify SLC-BUF/BDL/ROC nonstop service.

There are also some smaller regional destinations in the Western U.S. that DL serves nonstop from SLC but not from DTW or MSP, and DL adding SLC-BUF/BDL/SDF/ORF/RIC/ROC nonstop service would provide easier connectivity to these smaller regional destinations from BUF, BDL, SDF, ORF, RIC, and ROC.

At some point yes, but probably not summer 2021 for a variety of reasons.

1) Terminal constraints at SLC until construction is complete.
2) SLC and MSP serve many of the same E-W traffic flows, thus for "eastern markets" until they get sufficient demand/capacity through MSP before they will add SLC

CMH is losing its LAX flight, but gaining year-round SLC instead.
GRR is also a next-up to get SLC service

The challenge, as said, is these longer-thinner SLC flights eat-up a lot of aircraft time. The yield has to be there to effectively eat-up 8-10 hours of aircraft time per roundtrip for such routes versus doing shorter stage lengths to ATL/DTW/MSP


panamair wrote:
Some LAX changes loaded this past weekend:

- LAX-IAH gets new 2x daily on the CS1
- LAX-OAK is back 3x daily with the E75
- Additional daily flight on LAX-MCO/TPA/BNA/RDU and MEX
- LAX-CMH appears to be gone ‘permanently’


SLC-CMH operated for about a year before COVID, so it's not brand new, but encouraging to see back. I would've figured they would've dropped it before LAX.

I wouldn't be surprised to see LAX-CMH back at some point. That route supported three daily flights (2x AA, 1x DL) two summers ago, so there's a market there, both for the route and airline. Don't forget SEA-CMH was announced on the A220 (6/6/20 was the start date), but never started due to COVID.
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deltairlines
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:26 am

jplatts wrote:
deltairlines wrote:
The other issue is on how Delta does their network planning - it takes a lot for them to overfly a hub to go to another hub. This has always been the weak spot in SLC going to the east - Minneapolis stands right in the way. Right now, of the cities you mention, only SDF and BDL have year-round MSP (currently BDL is 2x CR9, SDF is 1x CR7). I'd think you need to see year-round to all these cities to MSP before you even start talking SLC. BDL would be the strongest option to get a flight to SLC, but I don't see it with the others.


The flight path of the SLC-SDF/RIC/ORF nonstop flights would stay to the south of the MSP and DTW hubs instead of overflying the MSP and DTW hubs. DL also already serves both DTW and MSP nonstop from SDF, RIC, and ORF.

AA, AS, and WN have some nonstop routes that overfly other hubs and where the overflown hub isn't served nonstop from the spoke end of the route, such as DEN-CVG/SDF on WN (overflying STL), HOU-OKC on WN (overflying DAL), MKE-BNA on WN (overflying MDW), JFK-AUS/SAT on AA (overflying DCA), and MRY-SEA on AS (overflying PDX).

Even though SLC-BUF/BDL/ROC would overfly the DTW and MSP hubs, it might still make sense for DL to add SLC-BUF/BDL/ROC nonstop service if demand were at pre-pandemic levels as DL would likely have enough O&D traffic to SLC from BUF, BDL, and ROC and enough passengers making connections to destinations west of SLC from BUF, BDL, and ROC to justify SLC-BUF/BDL/ROC nonstop service.

There are also some smaller regional destinations in the Western U.S. that DL serves nonstop from SLC but not from DTW or MSP, and DL adding SLC-BUF/BDL/SDF/ORF/RIC/ROC nonstop service would provide easier connectivity to these smaller regional destinations from BUF, BDL, SDF, ORF, RIC, and ROC.


Yes, on a map SDF/RIC/ORF would fly south of these hubs, but airline network planning isn't that simple. ORF-MSP-SLC is 101 miles more than ORF-SLC; SDF is 184, RIC is 98. For all intents and purposes, serving these cities nonstop would be overflying MSP.

As for SLC-unique destinations, it's pretty small. The cities that have SLC service but no MSP (or ATL) service are Oakland (and that gets ATL back soon, and is an alternate to SFO), Butte MT, Burbank CA (which ATL is coming back and has alternates in LA), Casper WY, Cody WY, Colorado Springs CO, Elko NV, Fresno, Grand Junction, Idaho Falls (which does have MSP seasonal), Lewiston ID, Long Beach (again, alternate LA service), Medford, Eugene, Palm Springs (which does have ATL/MSP seasonal), Pocatello, Redmond, St. George, Sun Valley, and Twin Falls - a total of 17 markets (I'm excluding OAK/LGB/BUR). Of these markets, from RIC/ORF/SDF, the only real single stop connections that work are AA over DFW or UA over DEN - both of which benefit from being much stronger hubs than DL in SLC, as well as a much larger local market to support these flights...Salt Lake City is still only the 22nd largest CSA and is in a muddled grouping with Sacramento, San Antonio, Pittsburgh, Columbus, San Antonio, Indianapolis and Cincinnati - Salt Lake just happens to be one of the few places in that part of the country (only trailing Denver) that has enough of a base to support an airline hub.
 
DeltaRules
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:21 am

Noticing the first outbound CMH-ATL/last inbound ATL-CMH in March is an E175, which is the first time there's been an RJ on that route since the brief 2006-08ish timeframe where it was mostly RJs (before FL came to town and DL promptly threw M88s and 757s back on the route). The other four flights are on 739s and 717s, so that's not much different. By comparison, tomorrow on the same route is 739/739/717/738/739.

Anyone have an idea as to what's up? Are there any other otherwise mainline heavy routes seeing something similar? Maybe they're using CMH as a passthrough point to get the HXD 175s back into the rest of the network like they were with LEX for a bit?
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:41 am

Isn't CMH a maintenance / crew base of YX / Republic and the E75? With some of these DCI bases they have to do that to route aircraft and crews to/from bases.
 
gdavis003
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:26 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Isn't CMH a maintenance / crew base of YX / Republic and the E75? With some of these DCI bases they have to do that to route aircraft and crews to/from bases.


Yes, I believe Republic’s non AA/UA/DL hub bases are at SDF/IND/CMH/PIT. It is likely crew related, in that case. There also seems to be more Republic, DL connection flights out of ATL than I remember in recent years
 
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:11 pm

Excluding flights from SLC to other spots in the western US, can someone please give me a rough rundown of all the other A220 routes for the next few months? Ideally, I'd like to get a flight on the A223. The only other routes I'm aware of are SLC-ORD and DTW-DFW.
Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
 
maps4ltd
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:36 pm

mke717spotter wrote:
Excluding flights from SLC to other spots in the western US, can someone please give me a rough rundown of all the other A220 routes for the next few months? Ideally, I'd like to get a flight on the A223. The only other routes I'm aware of are SLC-ORD and DTW-DFW.

Delta is flying the A220-300 from STL-SLC starting in March. I'm booked on it, as indicated by my signature.
Next flights:
Who knows? :/
 
maps4ltd
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:39 pm

According to Delta's destinations page (https://www.delta.com/us/en/plan-your-n ... ere-we-fly), these are the markets they plan to resume flights to in March:

Bangor, ME (BGR)
White Plains, NY (HPN)
Providence, RI (PVD)
Dublin, Ireland (DUB)
Madrid, Spain (MAD)
Next flights:
Who knows? :/
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5303
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:12 pm

maps4ltd wrote:
According to Delta's destinations page (https://www.delta.com/us/en/plan-your-n ... ere-we-fly), these are the markets they plan to resume flights to in March:

Bangor, ME (BGR)
White Plains, NY (HPN)
Providence, RI (PVD)
Dublin, Ireland (DUB)
Madrid, Spain (MAD)


Just noticed CAK is gone completely from the list. I didn't realize they'd thrown in the towel on returning there.
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