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mxaxai
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Re: Delta to launch flights to Dubrovnik, Croatia from JFK this summer

Fri May 07, 2021 12:11 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
I wonder how it works with COVID travelling from Dubrovnik to "mainland Croatia" (Split, etc.) since travelling by car means crossing the Bosnian border.

Theoretically they could take the ferry Trpanj - Ploce to avoid crossing through Bosnia.
 
Web
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri May 07, 2021 12:41 pm

DL launching JFK-DBV from 02JUL21...

https://news.delta.com/delta-debut-new- ... tia-summer

4x/week, 763 equipment. Great add!
 
boston5555
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Re: Delta to launch flights to Dubrovnik, Croatia from JFK this summer

Fri May 07, 2021 12:44 pm

It's a beautiful city and country. The islands are wonderful - Hvar, Korcula - and Split is a neat city as well. And, yes, inland has some neat things to see and do. I think it's a mix between Italy and Greece. We were there for 10 days in 2019 and very much enjoyed it. One challenge that we had is the layout of the country is such that you really want to fly into SPU and out of DBV (or vice versa) as driving up and down the country is not easy - Bosnia actually splits the country in two and crossing through there to get either north or south is very difficult in popular summer months. So, ideally, you fly into SPU, explore inland from there (Plitivice Falls), cruise the islands and end up in DBV, then fly out of there.

I guess my point is that a n/s to DBV, while nice, is not the end all, especially if you consider that you will have to connect through JFK, EWR or PHL to begin with. We opted for LH, going BOS-MUC-SPU and then DBV-FRA-BOS.
 
SESGDL
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri May 07, 2021 12:45 pm

So happy to see DL adding flights to new places again. Hope these are successful.

Jeremy
 
simairlinenet
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Re: Delta to launch flights to Dubrovnik, Croatia from JFK this summer

Fri May 07, 2021 1:23 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
I wonder how it works with COVID travelling from Dubrovnik to "mainland Croatia" (Split, etc.) since travelling by car means crossing the Bosnian border.

I drove it last September. You have to exit within an hour of entering, so there's time to stop in the town of Neum for a quick look around.

Croatia is building a new highway that avoids this necessity.
 
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Boeing757100
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Re: Delta to launch flights to Dubrovnik, Croatia from JFK this summer

Fri May 07, 2021 2:07 pm

Wonder what will be next in the next 5-15 years?
Boeing is re-engining the 707 tonight, with Shinkai as the CEO and FLAIRPORT as the CFO. He has the 757 tooling in giant snowglobe that tracks flights.
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Sightseer
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri May 07, 2021 3:04 pm

panamair wrote:
More transatlantic changes:

Another daily JFK-TLV flight starting September so there will be 3x daily JFK-TLV!


That's impressive, but I'm a little surprised they're going with 3 JFK flights before resuming ATL. Maybe it's because AA is in the market now?
 
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Polot
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri May 07, 2021 3:20 pm

Sightseer wrote:
panamair wrote:
More transatlantic changes:

Another daily JFK-TLV flight starting September so there will be 3x daily JFK-TLV!


That's impressive, but I'm a little surprised they're going with 3 JFK flights before resuming ATL. Maybe it's because AA is in the market now?

ATL would require a A339 or A350. Less of those to go around especially with the 777 fleet gone.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri May 07, 2021 3:41 pm

There is probably also a desire to pump International connections over JFK vs ATL as much as feasible in the near term to prop-up the domestic connecting feed into JFK.
ATL is a lot easier to prop up with domestic connections when international is down.
 
rjbesikof
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Re: Delta to launch flights to Dubrovnik, Croatia from JFK this summer

Fri May 07, 2021 5:11 pm

JFK-DBV is not a surprise. It is also smart because people won't have to transit at CDG to get to Croatia.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Delta to launch flights to Dubrovnik, Croatia from JFK this summer

Fri May 07, 2021 5:35 pm

I'm not too surprised. Delta has the capacity. Business travel isnt coming back, they will have the capacity.

If the city is open to americans you might see people feeling safer then a large city like paris or london. It's how people feel going there not actual rates or anything like that. Outdoor leisure spots "feel" safer then large known cities. Definitely risky but there will people itching to get away and the planes aint free sitting there not flying either.
 
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airzim
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Re: Delta to launch flights to Dubrovnik, Croatia from JFK this summer

Fri May 07, 2021 5:42 pm

boston5555 wrote:
It's a beautiful city and country. The islands are wonderful - Hvar, Korcula - and Split is a neat city as well. And, yes, inland has some neat things to see and do. I think it's a mix between Italy and Greece. We were there for 10 days in 2019 and very much enjoyed it. One challenge that we had is the layout of the country is such that you really want to fly into SPU and out of DBV (or vice versa) as driving up and down the country is not easy - Bosnia actually splits the country in two and crossing through there to get either north or south is very difficult in popular summer months. So, ideally, you fly into SPU, explore inland from there (Plitivice Falls), cruise the islands and end up in DBV, then fly out of there.

I guess my point is that a n/s to DBV, while nice, is not the end all, especially if you consider that you will have to connect through JFK, EWR or PHL to begin with. We opted for LH, going BOS-MUC-SPU and then DBV-FRA-BOS.


Agree completely. I flew NYC on JFK-LHR-SPU (BA) then return on DBV-FCO(OU)-FRA-JFK (LH). The Split Airport is right next to the sea, so if you can arrange it, we were met at baggage claim, took a two minute ride to the dock and jumped on a private speed boat to Hvar. Wonderful! Spent a week at a villa outside Hvar overlooking the sea. Took day side trips to neighboring islands, and a ferry from Hvar to DBV and spent 3 days and 2 nights right in the heart of the walled city. Wonderful place and especially amazing since Croatia was in the semi finals of the WorldCup while we were in DBV. It's a very nice and reasonably inexpensive place for a 10 day relaxing holiday.
 
maps4ltd
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri May 07, 2021 5:44 pm

Was looking at Delta flights on FR24 to get an idea of the May schedule change. There are quite a few routes/flights that caught my eye, such as DTW-SRQ on a 717 (was an A321) and DTW-SAN on an A330 (was also an A321). Any other notable gauge changes.

On another note, flightradar24 looks very similar to what it did in May 2019. So that's a plus.
Next flights:
Who knows? :/
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Delta to launch flights to Dubrovnik, Croatia from JFK this summer

Fri May 07, 2021 5:48 pm

Cases of Covid per million people are really rather high in Croatia right now. Deaths per million people (doesn't depend on how much testing a country does) are 5 times that of the USA - a comparable level is the USA in January 2021
I would not be booking to go there until things are a little more controlled

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... y/croatia/
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
 
timf
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri May 07, 2021 6:08 pm

maps4ltd wrote:
Was looking at Delta flights on FR24 to get an idea of the May schedule change. There are quite a few routes/flights that caught my eye, such as DTW-SRQ on a 717 (was an A321) and DTW-SAN on an A330 (was also an A321). Any other notable gauge changes.

On another note, flightradar24 looks very similar to what it did in May 2019. So that's a plus.

The changes from A321s have been noted for a while. While I understand wanting to get some use out of aircraft and crews that would otherwise be sitting idle, I'm wondering where the A321s have gone that would otherwise be operating these routes?
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: Delta to launch flights to Dubrovnik, Croatia from JFK this summer

Fri May 07, 2021 6:27 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Cases of Covid per million people are really rather high in Croatia right now. Deaths per million people (doesn't depend on how much testing a country does) are 5 times that of the USA - a comparable level is the USA in January 2021
I would not be booking to go there until things are a little more controlled

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... y/croatia/
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/


Which is a great example of why this will not be the summer of Europe travel, except for the truly adventurous. Much of the continent will be tough to navigate restrictions wise. It is foolish to think it will be open to all by August 1. The airlines need it to be and are desperate, but that does not translate to reality. If bookings don't climb, a lot of TATL, and non-core TATL, will get cut back.
 
Scarebus34
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Re: Delta to launch flights to Dubrovnik, Croatia from JFK this summer

Fri May 07, 2021 6:41 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
Cases of Covid per million people are really rather high in Croatia right now. Deaths per million people (doesn't depend on how much testing a country does) are 5 times that of the USA - a comparable level is the USA in January 2021
I would not be booking to go there until things are a little more controlled

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... y/croatia/
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/


Which is a great example of why this will not be the summer of Europe travel, except for the truly adventurous. Much of the continent will be tough to navigate restrictions wise. It is foolish to think it will be open to all by August 1. The airlines need it to be and are desperate, but that does not translate to reality. If bookings don't climb, a lot of TATL, and non-core TATL, will get cut back.

Spain, Italy, and France plan to reopen to vaccinated Americans. Germany will follow and the UK will move the US to it's 'green list' next month. So not quite sure what you're talking about.
 
factsonly
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Re: Delta to launch flights to Dubrovnik, Croatia from JFK this summer

Fri May 07, 2021 7:08 pm

In addition to DL's 4x weekly non-stop JFK-DBV service, DL also offers service to Croatia via:

- USA-AMS-ZAG KL 2x daily
- USA-AMS-SPU KL daily from May 15th
- USA-AMS-DBV KL daily from July 3rd

- USA-CDG-ZAG AF 5x weekly
- USA-CDG-SPU AF 4x weekly from June 15th, 6x weekly from July
- USA-CDG-DBV AF daily from July 3rd

Thus allowing travellers to make very flexible itineraries.

Source: AF/KLM
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Delta to launch flights to Dubrovnik, Croatia from JFK this summer

Fri May 07, 2021 7:13 pm

Scarebus34 wrote:
Spain, Italy, and France plan to reopen to vaccinated Americans. Germany will follow and the UK will move the US to it's 'green list' next month. So not quite sure what you're talking about.


'Open to' doesn't mean they will see traffic at typical 2018/2019 levels this summer. We've seen how carriers keep pushing out flight resumptions.
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Delta to launch flights to Dubrovnik, Croatia from JFK this summer

Fri May 07, 2021 7:15 pm

Delta and United may be better off sending capacity to Portugal instead of Croatia. It may not be quite as fashionable right now, but jounalists at major news organisations will pick up on Covid data, and relay this to the public.

There is only so much the Croatian National Tourist Board can do to promote confidence if enough news media, health insurers or US State Dept are saying "Cases are high, go somewhere else"

Disclaimer - I last went to both Croatia and Portugal in summer 2020. I have no personal or business ties to either Croatia or Portugal
 
Wacko55
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri May 07, 2021 7:40 pm

timf wrote:
maps4ltd wrote:
Was looking at Delta flights on FR24 to get an idea of the May schedule change. There are quite a few routes/flights that caught my eye, such as DTW-SRQ on a 717 (was an A321) and DTW-SAN on an A330 (was also an A321). Any other notable gauge changes.

On another note, flightradar24 looks very similar to what it did in May 2019. So that's a plus.

The changes from A321s have been noted for a while. While I understand wanting to get some use out of aircraft and crews that would otherwise be sitting idle, I'm wondering where the A321s have gone that would otherwise be operating these routes?


DL added A321's into the schedule on LAX-AUS (2x daily) and MSP-AUS (1x daily) recently.
 
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TripleDelta
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Re: Delta to launch flights to Dubrovnik, Croatia from JFK this summer

Fri May 07, 2021 8:26 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
I'm not too surprised. Delta has the capacity. Business travel isnt coming back, they will have the capacity.


Personally, for what it's worth, I suspect this is a "get your foot in the door" maneuver; with enough underused planes (as you said) it may make sense to go for the service, accepting it'll run at a loss for a year, maybe even two - but when things stabilize, you've been present on the market and on that route long enough for people to associate you with the East Coast-DBV (or indeed USA-Croatia) run. Perhaps not the cheapest way to get PR in the long run nowadays, but it may work; on the other end of the scale, it is possible that Windrose of the Ukraine had started services to ZAG during the worst of it precisely for that very reason...
Hawkeye: "It doesn't make any sense."
Radar: "Well, none of it makes any sense. You just have to send in the right number of forms." - MASH 4077
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: Delta to launch flights to Dubrovnik, Croatia from JFK this summer

Sat May 08, 2021 12:22 am

Scarebus34 wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
Cases of Covid per million people are really rather high in Croatia right now. Deaths per million people (doesn't depend on how much testing a country does) are 5 times that of the USA - a comparable level is the USA in January 2021
I would not be booking to go there until things are a little more controlled

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... y/croatia/
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/


Which is a great example of why this will not be the summer of Europe travel, except for the truly adventurous. Much of the continent will be tough to navigate restrictions wise. It is foolish to think it will be open to all by August 1. The airlines need it to be and are desperate, but that does not translate to reality. If bookings don't climb, a lot of TATL, and non-core TATL, will get cut back.

Spain, Italy, and France plan to reopen to vaccinated Americans. Germany will follow and the UK will move the US to it's 'green list' next month. So not quite sure what you're talking about.


You're missing the point. They may be reopening but people who travel to Europe make plans in advance, well in advance and those that are bound to corporate vacation schedules, kids, etc...Sure there will be last minute takers, but these trips are planned long in advance. It is so unclear as to what will be open, what the protocols will be (how many people can enter the Louvre, or the Prado?) Restaurant capacity, tours, etc...Did you think about that or did you just read a headline that says they're reopening. The UK won't allow US citizens in. Those that can go on a Summer vacation have already planned for the most part and booked closer to home.
 
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lesfalls
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sat May 08, 2021 12:44 am

panamair wrote:
More transatlantic changes:

Another daily JFK-TLV flight starting September so there will be 3x daily JFK-TLV!

JFK-FRA/BRU/ZRH/NCE restart pushed from 7 July to 5 August
ATL-MUC pushed from 7 July to 8 September

JFK-LIS restart still for 7 July; upgauged from 75S to 763ER


How many frequencies in total including all carriers ERW/JFK-TLV? What has led to the following ramp-up (business-friendly regulations in Israel?)?
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
Ishrion
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sat May 08, 2021 1:00 am

lesfalls wrote:
panamair wrote:
More transatlantic changes:

Another daily JFK-TLV flight starting September so there will be 3x daily JFK-TLV!

JFK-FRA/BRU/ZRH/NCE restart pushed from 7 July to 5 August
ATL-MUC pushed from 7 July to 8 September

JFK-LIS restart still for 7 July; upgauged from 75S to 763ER


How many frequencies in total including all carriers ERW/JFK-TLV? What has led to the following ramp-up (business-friendly regulations in Israel?)?


Week of September 19:

- Delta 27x weekly JFK-TLV
- EL AL 8x weekly EWR-TLV, 14x weekly JFK-TLV
- United 13x weekly EWR-TLV (pretty sure this should be 14x, but one frequency doesn't operate Sept. 19)
- American 7x weekly JFK-TLV

I'm also interested in this apparent increase in demand. This doesn't represent all NYC-TLV flights, but it looks like on September 18 AA's JFK-TLV is sold out in Premium Economy and Business Class. Economy class is now $2,500+ one-way.
 
jbs2886
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sat May 08, 2021 1:29 am

Ishrion wrote:
lesfalls wrote:
panamair wrote:
More transatlantic changes:

Another daily JFK-TLV flight starting September so there will be 3x daily JFK-TLV!

JFK-FRA/BRU/ZRH/NCE restart pushed from 7 July to 5 August
ATL-MUC pushed from 7 July to 8 September

JFK-LIS restart still for 7 July; upgauged from 75S to 763ER


How many frequencies in total including all carriers ERW/JFK-TLV? What has led to the following ramp-up (business-friendly regulations in Israel?)?


Week of September 19:

- Delta 27x weekly JFK-TLV
- EL AL 8x weekly EWR-TLV, 14x weekly JFK-TLV
- United 13x weekly EWR-TLV (pretty sure this should be 14x, but one frequency doesn't operate Sept. 19)
- American 7x weekly JFK-TLV

I'm also interested in this apparent increase in demand. This doesn't represent all NYC-TLV flights, but it looks like on September 18 AA's JFK-TLV is sold out in Premium Economy and Business Class. Economy class is now $2,500+ one-way.


That’s almost 4 daily flights on DL. I thought it was 3x, which is 21x weekly.
 
Ishrion
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sat May 08, 2021 1:34 am

jbs2886 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
lesfalls wrote:

How many frequencies in total including all carriers ERW/JFK-TLV? What has led to the following ramp-up (business-friendly regulations in Israel?)?


Week of September 19:

- Delta 27x weekly JFK-TLV
- EL AL 8x weekly EWR-TLV, 14x weekly JFK-TLV
- United 13x weekly EWR-TLV (pretty sure this should be 14x, but one frequency doesn't operate Sept. 19)
- American 7x weekly JFK-TLV

I'm also interested in this apparent increase in demand. This doesn't represent all NYC-TLV flights, but it looks like on September 18 AA's JFK-TLV is sold out in Premium Economy and Business Class. Economy class is now $2,500+ one-way.


That’s almost 4 daily flights on DL. I thought it was 3x, which is 21x weekly.


Sorry, I meant 21, not 27.
 
alohashirts
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sat May 08, 2021 1:39 am

DL330 from DTW-SLC diverted to PVU today due to strong winds at SLC. Leaving PVU-SLC was about a ten minute flight.
 
audidudi
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sat May 08, 2021 2:48 am

alohashirts wrote:
DL330 from DTW-SLC diverted to PVU today due to strong winds at SLC. Leaving PVU-SLC was about a ten minute flight.

It was operated by A321 N394DX.
 
rbavfan
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Re: Delta to launch flights to Dubrovnik, Croatia from JFK this summer

Sat May 08, 2021 3:59 am

SCQ83 wrote:
I wonder how it works with COVID travelling from Dubrovnik to "mainland Croatia" (Split, etc.) since travelling by car means crossing the Bosnian border.


You can drive along the coast without going through Bosnia.
 
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TripleDelta
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Re: Delta to launch flights to Dubrovnik, Croatia from JFK this summer

Sat May 08, 2021 4:12 am

rbavfan wrote:
You can drive along the coast without going through Bosnia.


To/from Dubrovnik you can't - not yet, until the Pelješac bridge is completed anyway (and that'll take some time still).
Hawkeye: "It doesn't make any sense."
Radar: "Well, none of it makes any sense. You just have to send in the right number of forms." - MASH 4077
 
dstblj52
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Re: Delta to launch flights to Dubrovnik, Croatia from JFK this summer

Sat May 08, 2021 4:33 am

TripleDelta wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
I'm not too surprised. Delta has the capacity. Business travel isnt coming back, they will have the capacity.


Personally, for what it's worth, I suspect this is a "get your foot in the door" maneuver; with enough underused planes (as you said) it may make sense to go for the service, accepting it'll run at a loss for a year, maybe even two - but when things stabilize, you've been present on the market and on that route long enough for people to associate you with the East Coast-DBV (or indeed USA-Croatia) run. Perhaps not the cheapest way to get PR in the long run nowadays, but it may work; on the other end of the scale, it is possible that Windrose of the Ukraine had started services to ZAG during the worst of it precisely for that very reason...

a lot of these flights probably cover marginal costs and if they do more thats good but if not and business travel returns these planes will get moved in a hurry
 
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TripleDelta
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Re: Delta to launch flights to Dubrovnik, Croatia from JFK this summer

Sat May 08, 2021 4:42 am

dstblj52 wrote:
a lot of these flights probably cover marginal costs and if they do more thats good but if not and business travel returns these planes will get moved in a hurry


Maybe; but business demand will not return instantly as if someone threw a switch. Given experiences so far, It'll develop very gradually, maybe over a significant number of months - and, since people have now seen and adapted to alternative means (videoconferences and such), may never rebound to the levels of 2019. Certainly in the near future it doesn't look like anybody will be moving airplanes around in a hurry.
Hawkeye: "It doesn't make any sense."
Radar: "Well, none of it makes any sense. You just have to send in the right number of forms." - MASH 4077
 
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TripleDelta
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Re: Delta to launch flights to Dubrovnik, Croatia from JFK this summer

Sat May 08, 2021 5:55 am

boston5555 wrote:
So, ideally, you fly into SPU, explore inland from there (Plitivice Falls), cruise the islands and end up in DBV, then fly out of there.


Or you can go to ZAG with its more numerous European connections and then take a domestic flight to ZAD/PUY, SPU, DBV and even BWK once it starts. There are more flights and continental sights (Plitvice in particular since you mention them) are closer.
Hawkeye: "It doesn't make any sense."
Radar: "Well, none of it makes any sense. You just have to send in the right number of forms." - MASH 4077
 
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TripleDelta
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Re: Delta to launch flights to Dubrovnik, Croatia from JFK this summer

Sat May 08, 2021 5:57 am

simairlinenet wrote:
Croatia is building a new highway that avoids this necessity.


That's at least a year from completion (and likely two+), so it doesn't help with this issue.
Hawkeye: "It doesn't make any sense."
Radar: "Well, none of it makes any sense. You just have to send in the right number of forms." - MASH 4077
 
dstblj52
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Re: Delta to launch flights to Dubrovnik, Croatia from JFK this summer

Sat May 08, 2021 6:08 am

TripleDelta wrote:
dstblj52 wrote:
a lot of these flights probably cover marginal costs and if they do more thats good but if not and business travel returns these planes will get moved in a hurry


Maybe; but business demand will not return instantly as if someone threw a switch. Given experiences so far, It'll develop very gradually, maybe over a significant number of months - and, since people have now seen and adapted to alternative means (videoconferences and such), may never rebound to the levels of 2019. Certainly in the near future it doesn't look like anybody will be moving airplanes around in a hurry.

Maybe im more bullish on business travel than you are just due to tragedy of the commons but it won't be back fully till 2022 when all the conferences start up again at a miniumum
 
Blerg
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Re: Delta to launch flights to Dubrovnik, Croatia from JFK this summer

Sat May 08, 2021 6:11 am

TripleDelta wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
I'm not too surprised. Delta has the capacity. Business travel isnt coming back, they will have the capacity.


Personally, for what it's worth, I suspect this is a "get your foot in the door" maneuver; with enough underused planes (as you said) it may make sense to go for the service, accepting it'll run at a loss for a year, maybe even two - but when things stabilize, you've been present on the market and on that route long enough for people to associate you with the East Coast-DBV (or indeed USA-Croatia) run. Perhaps not the cheapest way to get PR in the long run nowadays, but it may work; on the other end of the scale, it is possible that Windrose of the Ukraine had started services to ZAG during the worst of it precisely for that very reason...


Yeah but Windrose is not doing all that well in ZAG. They initially planned to boost it to three weekly and not only did they decide against it but they ended up canceling several flights in May. I believe all flights are cancelled until the 19th. They also reduced capacity on the route from ATR to E45.
 
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TripleDelta
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Re: Delta to launch flights to Dubrovnik, Croatia from JFK this summer

Sat May 08, 2021 6:19 am

Blerg wrote:
Yeah but Windrose is not doing all that well in ZAG. They initially planned to boost it to three weekly and not only did they decide against it but they ended up canceling several flights in May. I believe all flights are cancelled until the 19th.


That's precisely my point: the route's performing poorly, but it still is going along, and they're present on that route for all to see. Maybe for them that presence is, long term, worth the short term financial loss.

Blerg wrote:
They also reduced capacity on the route from ATR to E45.


The E45 is a regular ever since the second flight. Just the inaugural run (and I believe just a handful of others) had been operated by the ATR.
Hawkeye: "It doesn't make any sense."
Radar: "Well, none of it makes any sense. You just have to send in the right number of forms." - MASH 4077
 
Blerg
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Re: Delta to launch flights to Dubrovnik, Croatia from JFK this summer

Sat May 08, 2021 6:38 am

TripleDelta wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Yeah but Windrose is not doing all that well in ZAG. They initially planned to boost it to three weekly and not only did they decide against it but they ended up canceling several flights in May. I believe all flights are cancelled until the 19th.


That's precisely my point: the route's performing poorly, but it still is going along, and they're present on that route for all to see. Maybe for them that presence is, long term, worth the short term financial loss.

Blerg wrote:
They also reduced capacity on the route from ATR to E45.


The E45 is a regular ever since the second flight. Just the inaugural run (and I believe just a handful of others) had been operated by the ATR.


Yes but costs are not the same. For Windrose losses to ZAG might be manageable since the sector is short and a small plane operates the route. JFK-DBV is a whole different game. I could understand if this was a year-round service but like this it seems to me like they are taking a big risk hoping it will work out in the end. They have too much spare capacity so why not try, just like they brought back ATL-ATH this summer.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5869
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: Delta to launch flights to Dubrovnik, Croatia from JFK this summer

Sat May 08, 2021 9:38 am

ContinentalEWR wrote:
Which is a great example of why this will not be the summer of Europe travel, except for the truly adventurous. Much of the continent will be tough to navigate restrictions wise. It is foolish to think it will be open to all by August 1. The airlines need it to be and are desperate, but that does not translate to reality. If bookings don't climb, a lot of TATL, and non-core TATL, will get cut back.


I am also not sure Dubrovnik is a great destination if borders are not still completely open.

Dubrovnik is an exclave surrounded by Bosnia and Montenegro. Bosnia is literally a few kilometres from the old town of Dubrovnik and the Montenegro border also a few minutes from the airport.

Kotor (Montenegro) which is sometimes named as the "next Dubrovnik" and Kotor Bay and Mostar (Bosnia) are not that far away, and are very interesting places to visit. If borders are not fully open, I would feel a bit frustrated to fly all the way from the US and not being able to visit those places. IMO as a tourist one thing that makes unique that part of the world (former Yugoslavia) are the contrasts... the change of languages, religions and influences within a few kilometres.

Then of course you can travel to "mainland" Croatia via Neum (Bosnia) which others have mentioned you have a 1-hour pass. Or take a ferry. IMO that adds some unnecessary stress.
 
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TripleDelta
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Re: Delta to launch flights to Dubrovnik, Croatia from JFK this summer

Sat May 08, 2021 12:10 pm

Blerg wrote:
Yes but costs are not the same. For Windrose losses to ZAG might be manageable since the sector is short and a small plane operates the route. JFK-DBV is a whole different game. I could understand if this was a year-round service but like this it seems to me like they are taking a big risk hoping it will work out in the end. They have too much spare capacity so why not try, just like they brought back ATL-ATH this summer.


Maybe it's equally (or nearly as) manageable for Delta. We're not in their boardroom and we do not have any insight into their figures and plans. It could be a blind stab at a map, or it could be a long game... the point is, it's not impossible, especially when carriers are getting more and more audacious (by necessity) with their operations.
Hawkeye: "It doesn't make any sense."
Radar: "Well, none of it makes any sense. You just have to send in the right number of forms." - MASH 4077
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4306
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: Delta to launch flights to Dubrovnik, Croatia from JFK this summer

Sat May 08, 2021 12:25 pm

TripleDelta wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Yes but costs are not the same. For Windrose losses to ZAG might be manageable since the sector is short and a small plane operates the route. JFK-DBV is a whole different game. I could understand if this was a year-round service but like this it seems to me like they are taking a big risk hoping it will work out in the end. They have too much spare capacity so why not try, just like they brought back ATL-ATH this summer.


Maybe it's equally (or nearly as) manageable for Delta. We're not in their boardroom and we do not have any insight into their figures and plans. It could be a blind stab at a map, or it could be a long game... the point is, it's not impossible, especially when carriers are getting more and more audacious (by necessity) with their operations.


Routes like this do not happen without some planning. The airlines though have plenty of wide body capacity and need to send them somewhere. Thankfully, fuel is manageable, and there is a need to sustain pilot ratings on larger jets for safety and training purposes. This is essentially an experiment as there are limited places airlines can fly long haul right now. If the situation were to ever normalize, or return to pre-pandemic levels, I can see routes like this disappearing but we're so far from that, and may not even get there quickly so this is simply airlines doing what they can with the assets they have.
 
gwrudolph
Posts: 527
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:46 pm

Re: Delta to launch flights to Dubrovnik, Croatia from JFK this summer

Sat May 08, 2021 1:34 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
Weird to see DL be the follower, not the leader, into a new market.


Actually, it seems over the last 5 years or so United has been the leader of the big three in opening up new international markets as well as connecting additional points to existing international destinations
 
skymiler
Posts: 331
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:00 am

Re: Delta to launch flights to Dubrovnik, Croatia from JFK this summer

Sat May 08, 2021 2:07 pm

The announcement states 4 trips weekly, but I can not find the flights on the Delta Web site, searching after July 2. Are they bookable yet? It is possible that I am missing something. I see that there are connections available via AF ... Thank you for any information
I love to fly, and it shows!
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: Delta to launch flights to Dubrovnik, Croatia from JFK this summer

Sat May 08, 2021 2:31 pm

gwrudolph wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
Weird to see DL be the follower, not the leader, into a new market.


Actually, it seems over the last 5 years or so United has been the leader of the big three in opening up new international markets as well as connecting additional points to existing international destinations


Yes. United I think flies more international routes of the US3 (pre-pandemic). When UA and CO merged, they combined rather large international footprints. In terms of new P2P international routes, UA has added quite a number in recent years, including some I've listed below (partial list from memory), not all of which are currently operating of course (they are not in any particular order):

EWR-NAP
EWR-PMO (never started, but would have launched in June 2020)
EWR-PRG
EWR-NCE (announced for Summer 2020 but didn't launch)
EWR-CPT
EWR-OPO
EWR-KEF
EWR-JNB (announced, but didn't launch, I think)
EWR-DBV
SFO-MEL
SFO-DEL
ORD-DEL
SFO-BLR (announced, not started)
SFO-CDG (launched a while back, not operating now)
SFO-TLV
ORD-TLV
IAD-TLV
IAD-ATH (announced for Summer 2021)
EWR-IST (operated 2012-2013, then cancelled)
EWR-EZE* (operated on and off, starting in 2012, cancelled in 2013, and then resumed in 2017 and then suspended in 2019).
This route has moved around a lot. The origins of it are JFK-EZE, which then moved to IAD-EZE and then moved to EWR-EZE.
LAX-SIN (started, then suspended, and transferred to SFO for 2 x daily until the pandemic)
 
ContinentalEWR
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Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: Delta to launch flights to Dubrovnik, Croatia from JFK this summer

Sat May 08, 2021 2:38 pm

DL has also had a strong track record of secondary TATL from JFK in the past, with PSA, VLA, EDI, CPH (not secondary but seasonally served), ARN (also, not secondary, but seasonally served), OTP, PDL, TXL, AGP, LYS (very, very briefly flown), NCE, to name a few. Beyond Europe, there was JFK-DKR-CPT-DKR-JFK, flown on a 767-300ER/400ER.
 
gwrudolph
Posts: 527
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:46 pm

Re: Delta to launch flights to Dubrovnik, Croatia from JFK this summer

Sat May 08, 2021 10:32 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
gwrudolph wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
Weird to see DL be the follower, not the leader, into a new market.


Actually, it seems over the last 5 years or so United has been the leader of the big three in opening up new international markets as well as connecting additional points to existing international destinations


Yes. United I think flies more international routes of the US3 (pre-pandemic). When UA and CO merged, they combined rather large international footprints. In terms of new P2P international routes, UA has added quite a number in recent years, including some I've listed below (partial list from memory), not all of which are currently operating of course (they are not in any particular order):

EWR-NAP
EWR-PMO (never started, but would have launched in June 2020)
EWR-PRG
EWR-NCE (announced for Summer 2020 but didn't launch)
EWR-CPT
EWR-OPO
EWR-KEF
EWR-JNB (announced, but didn't launch, I think)
EWR-DBV
SFO-MEL
SFO-DEL
ORD-DEL
SFO-BLR (announced, not started)
SFO-CDG (launched a while back, not operating now)
SFO-TLV
ORD-TLV
IAD-TLV
IAD-ATH (announced for Summer 2021)
EWR-IST (operated 2012-2013, then cancelled)
EWR-EZE* (operated on and off, starting in 2012, cancelled in 2013, and then resumed in 2017 and then suspended in 2019).
This route has moved around a lot. The origins of it are JFK-EZE, which then moved to IAD-EZE and then moved to EWR-EZE.
LAX-SIN (started, then suspended, and transferred to SFO for 2 x daily until the pandemic)


Yep and there are even others like SFO-PPT, SFO-AMS, and I think they were looking at ZRH from ORD and SFO until the pandemic hit
 
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tlecam
Posts: 1511
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:38 pm

Re: Delta to launch flights to Dubrovnik, Croatia from JFK this summer

Sat May 08, 2021 11:53 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
Which is a great example of why this will not be the summer of Europe travel, except for the truly adventurous. Much of the continent will be tough to navigate restrictions wise. It is foolish to think it will be open to all by August 1. The airlines need it to be and are desperate, but that does not translate to reality. If bookings don't climb, a lot of TATL, and non-core TATL, will get cut back.


I am also not sure Dubrovnik is a great destination if borders are not still completely open.

Dubrovnik is an exclave surrounded by Bosnia and Montenegro. Bosnia is literally a few kilometres from the old town of Dubrovnik and the Montenegro border also a few minutes from the airport.

Kotor (Montenegro) which is sometimes named as the "next Dubrovnik" and Kotor Bay and Mostar (Bosnia) are not that far away, and are very interesting places to visit. If borders are not fully open, I would feel a bit frustrated to fly all the way from the US and not being able to visit those places. IMO as a tourist one thing that makes unique that part of the world (former Yugoslavia) are the contrasts... the change of languages, religions and influences within a few kilometres.

Then of course you can travel to "mainland" Croatia via Neum (Bosnia) which others have mentioned you have a 1-hour pass. Or take a ferry. IMO that adds some unnecessary stress.


Mostar is awesome. Very unique and the different cultures that have claimed it over the centuries are on full display. Watching the locals dive off the bridge is something.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1361
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Delta to launch flights to Dubrovnik, Croatia from JFK this summer

Sun May 09, 2021 12:15 am

So UA is starting DBV from EWR and Pragusa is flying DBV-EWR and DBV-LAX. People talked about ATH but this is clearly a sign of overkill. There wasn't this much demand to DBV even in good times. Yes, I know it may get some book away traffic from other Euro destinations but I still find this to be a whole lot.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4306
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: Delta to launch flights to Dubrovnik, Croatia from JFK this summer

Sun May 09, 2021 12:27 am

gwrudolph wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
gwrudolph wrote:

Actually, it seems over the last 5 years or so United has been the leader of the big three in opening up new international markets as well as connecting additional points to existing international destinations


Yes. United I think flies more international routes of the US3 (pre-pandemic). When UA and CO merged, they combined rather large international footprints. In terms of new P2P international routes, UA has added quite a number in recent years, including some I've listed below (partial list from memory), not all of which are currently operating of course (they are not in any particular order):

EWR-NAP
EWR-PMO (never started, but would have launched in June 2020)
EWR-PRG
EWR-NCE (announced for Summer 2020 but didn't launch)
EWR-CPT
EWR-OPO
EWR-KEF
EWR-JNB (announced, but didn't launch, I think)
EWR-DBV
SFO-MEL
SFO-DEL
ORD-DEL
SFO-BLR (announced, not started)
SFO-CDG (launched a while back, not operating now)
SFO-TLV
ORD-TLV
IAD-TLV
IAD-ATH (announced for Summer 2021)
EWR-IST (operated 2012-2013, then cancelled)
EWR-EZE* (operated on and off, starting in 2012, cancelled in 2013, and then resumed in 2017 and then suspended in 2019).
This route has moved around a lot. The origins of it are JFK-EZE, which then moved to IAD-EZE and then moved to EWR-EZE.
LAX-SIN (started, then suspended, and transferred to SFO for 2 x daily until the pandemic)


Yep and there are even others like SFO-PPT, SFO-AMS, and I think they were looking at ZRH from ORD and SFO until the pandemic hit


SFO-ZRH was operated already pre-pandemic, seasonally on a 787-8.

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