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LAXffDUB
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Wed Aug 25, 2021 4:21 pm

Noticed today's #40 (SYD/LAX) is delayed by 9 hours. And it has happened several times this summer as well despite the inbound flight being on time. Is there some sort of ongoing problem with SYD airport operations?
 
AC4500
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:45 pm

b777900 wrote:
x1234 wrote:
So in Asia DL is the only US3 with wide-body service to MNL (there is UA service to GUM). I still think DL has a chance to make SEA-MNL work. Hell I think DL can make SEA-SIN work too. UA has said that in their Pacific network SIN consistently has the highest yield and pre-COVID was sold out on most days in J and Y. SIN is also the most westernized asian country.


Well sadly as we know now that is not rue, Stupid Delta keeps pulling out of ASIA we lost HKG, SIN.NRT,MNL all on Delta Metal, so now we have to fly Korean so sad.. Delta left and it hurts...

"Stupid Delta"... Alright then. :roll:
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:11 pm

Looks like some capacity pulldowns for Oct/Nov are in store for this weekend based on the Delta cargo schedules...
 
ibthebigd
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:15 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Looks like some capacity pulldowns for Oct/Nov are in store for this weekend based on the Delta cargo schedules...
Thanks for the heads up I'll be checking constantly to see if my

CVG-SLC-SAN-ATL-CVG for Thanksgiving is affected

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
TW870
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:07 pm

OlympicATH wrote:

DL operated ATH year-round from 1991 (when they took over the PanAm transatlantic routes) until 2012 or so and that was alongside OA and TWA (for some time) who also flew the route year-round. That is over two decades.

Since then air travel has grown massively (look at ATH traffic as an example) so I struggle to believe the route wouldn't work in the 2020s.


The answer is because the industry is far more mature than it was in the 1980s, and the airlines are able to use their assets in ways that make more money and satisfy more demand than they used to satisfy with winter US-Athens routes. Yes, you are very correct that TWA for many years flew JFK-ATH year round, usually with a 747. But at least half the time, those airplanes were completely empty. TWA got into a big fight with its flight attendants in the mid-1970s because they wanted to hire a seasonal flight attendant workforce. While many Europe and Mediterranean routes operated year round, they were so empty in the winter that they only needed an FAA minimum flight attendant crew of 9 on a 747. But they were packed in the summer, requiring a much larger crew. Winter flights were so regularly empty that TW wanted to hire a small permanent flight attendant workforce, and then have a second population of seasonal workers to cover the months in which the planes actually had passengers onboard. The union shut that down, and TWA instead solved the imbalance by reducing block hours, shifting flight attendants into domestic flying, and focusing vacation time in the winter.

Today, airlines can use the winter for aircraft maintenance, crew vacation, and (during non-Covid times) to serve the busier north-south routes such as US-Brazil, Argentina, Australia, etc. There is absolutely business travel year round to ATH from the US, and yes there is much more than there was in the 1980s, but there not enough to pay for those widebody block hours at the rate of return they can capture today.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:22 pm

TW870 wrote:
OlympicATH wrote:

DL operated ATH year-round from 1991 (when they took over the PanAm transatlantic routes) until 2012 or so and that was alongside OA and TWA (for some time) who also flew the route year-round. That is over two decades.

Since then air travel has grown massively (look at ATH traffic as an example) so I struggle to believe the route wouldn't work in the 2020s.


The answer is because the industry is far more mature than it was in the 1980s, and the airlines are able to use their assets in ways that make more money and satisfy more demand than they used to satisfy with winter US-Athens routes. Yes, you are very correct that TWA for many years flew JFK-ATH year round, usually with a 747. But at least half the time, those airplanes were completely empty. TWA got into a big fight with its flight attendants in the mid-1970s because they wanted to hire a seasonal flight attendant workforce. While many Europe and Mediterranean routes operated year round, they were so empty in the winter that they only needed an FAA minimum flight attendant crew of 9 on a 747. But they were packed in the summer, requiring a much larger crew. Winter flights were so regularly empty that TW wanted to hire a small permanent flight attendant workforce, and then have a second population of seasonal workers to cover the months in which the planes actually had passengers onboard. The union shut that down, and TWA instead solved the imbalance by reducing block hours, shifting flight attendants into domestic flying, and focusing vacation time in the winter.

Today, airlines can use the winter for aircraft maintenance, crew vacation, and (during non-Covid times) to serve the busier north-south routes such as US-Brazil, Argentina, Australia, etc. There is absolutely business travel year round to ATH from the US, and yes there is much more than there was in the 1980s, but there not enough to pay for those widebody block hours at the rate of return they can capture today.


That is a great analysis. TWA pulled out permanently from Athens in 1997. It flew 747s that at 339 seats, in winter and off-peak broadly, flew empty. Olympic presumably limbered on for years on state sponsored subsidies as I believe it was a government owned entity. DL ended year-round Athens service well into the Greek Financial Crisis and had earlier this year, announced it would fly JFK-ATH year round, but has now reversed that decision.

The size and scope of business/corporate travel demand to Greece was very different pre-pandemic than it was in the 1980s and 1990s, but it remains a small market and skews overwhelmingly VFR in the winter time. There is virtually no substantive tourism from November to March. In Spring/Summer and early Fall, tourism demand booms.

There is plenty of wide body slack across the fleets of the US3, and many large planes still parked. In normal times, seasonal demand shifts would, as TWA870 correctly points out, result in moving capacity to markets that see increased demand in winter months. We're in an unpredictable time thanks to the pandemic. Demand is already slowing down reflected in guidance from Southwest and American Airlines in the US, and other moves, like UA shifting from 763s to 752s on its small contigent of JFK-LAX/SFO flights. Greece is most definitely not a market that will assure profitability, let alone break-even, even it 3-4 a week, in the November-March time frame, from the US, right now for a US carrier. In the future, maybe.
 
x1234
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:30 pm

How is DL's payload on JNB-ATL on the A359?
 
WidebodyPTV
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:42 pm

x1234 wrote:
How is DL's payload on JNB-ATL on the A359?


The flights are operating with very light loads, which is consistent with the rest of the long-haul network sans a few flights to/from touristy places in Europe... I'm still baffled that this surprises this forum
 
jbs2886
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:16 pm

WidebodyPTV wrote:
The flights are operating with very light loads, which is consistent with the rest of the long-haul network sans a few flights to/from touristy places in Europe... I'm still baffled that this surprises this forum


Unfortunately, so many people are living in parts of the country where things are back to normal and they are baffled by any restrictions. I think there is also a narrative that airlines are filling planes (but its really domestic). People just fundamentally don't understand what is actually happening - particularly for longhaul routes.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:30 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
WidebodyPTV wrote:
The flights are operating with very light loads, which is consistent with the rest of the long-haul network sans a few flights to/from touristy places in Europe... I'm still baffled that this surprises this forum


Unfortunately, so many people are living in parts of the country where things are back to normal and they are baffled by any restrictions. I think there is also a narrative that airlines are filling planes (but its really domestic). People just fundamentally don't understand what is actually happening - particularly for longhaul routes.


"Very light" is relative, TPAC loads are way down, TATL is not down nearly as much. UA's TATL load factor over the past few months was ~70%. Domestic and Latin America is at or above 2019 loads.

Image

https://www.airlines.org/dataset/impact ... -updates/#
https://simpleflying.com/united-airlines-2022-europe/
 
WidebodyPTV
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:55 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
WidebodyPTV wrote:
The flights are operating with very light loads, which is consistent with the rest of the long-haul network sans a few flights to/from touristy places in Europe... I'm still baffled that this surprises this forum


Unfortunately, so many people are living in parts of the country where things are back to normal and they are baffled by any restrictions. I think there is also a narrative that airlines are filling planes (but its really domestic). People just fundamentally don't understand what is actually happening - particularly for longhaul routes.


"Very light" is relative, TPAC loads are way down, TATL is not down nearly as much. UA's TATL load factor over the past few months was ~70%. Domestic and Latin America is at or above 2019 loads.

Image

https://www.airlines.org/dataset/impact ... -updates/#
https://simpleflying.com/united-airlines-2022-europe/


No, it isn't relative. I was very explicit that long-haul loads were very light, sans a few flights to/from touristy places in Europe. Unsurprisingly, these touristy places represent the bulk of long-haul capacity at the moment, so when you lump their data together, it's incredibly misleading. DL can fill up planes headed to touristy places like FCO, MAD, CDG, AMS but not LHR, FRA, JNB, etc. Of course, DL's fortunate that much of its Atlantic capacity is headed to CDG & AMS.

jbs2886 wrote:
Unfortunately, so many people are living in parts of the country where things are back to normal and they are baffled by any restrictions. I think there is also a narrative that airlines are filling planes (but its really domestic). People just fundamentally don't understand what is actually happening - particularly for longhaul routes.


I agree completely, but regular readers of these forums should be aware of the multitudes of restrictions that exist globally, as well as the downturn in business class traffic. I'd love to see DL add and expand service, too, but I recognize that if DL can't come close to filling up any Pacific route, we're not likely to see additional service return anytime soon let alone see DL launch SEA-KUL.
 
n9801f
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 30, 2021 8:07 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
"Very light" is relative, TPAC loads are way down, TATL is not down nearly as much. UA's TATL load factor over the past few months was ~70%. Domestic and Latin America is at or above 2019 loads.

Honestly, in this context load factor tells you very little of the story.

Long haul flights are down hugely vs. 2019.

So LF just tells you that the few flights that operated weren't empty.

Also the yield component is down in most markets due to very limited business travel.

The combination of reduced flights and depressed business travel will likely add up to a big revenue decrease vs. 2019. Especially in long haul. To a lesser extent in domestic.

We'll get a clearer picture when 3Q earnings come out. But given the Delta variant's impact, I doubt it will be a very pretty picture.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 30, 2021 8:15 pm

n9801f wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
"Very light" is relative, TPAC loads are way down, TATL is not down nearly as much. UA's TATL load factor over the past few months was ~70%. Domestic and Latin America is at or above 2019 loads.

Honestly, in this context load factor tells you very little of the story.

Long haul flights are down hugely vs. 2019.

So LF just tells you that the few flights that operated weren't empty.

Also the yield component is down in most markets due to very limited business travel.

The combination of reduced flights and depressed business travel will likely add up to a big revenue decrease vs. 2019. Especially in long haul. To a lesser extent in domestic.

We'll get a clearer picture when 3Q earnings come out. But given the Delta variant's impact, I doubt it will be a very pretty picture.


I don't disagree, but the poster was discussing loads. Not profitability or revenue.

WidebodyPTV wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:

Unfortunately, so many people are living in parts of the country where things are back to normal and they are baffled by any restrictions. I think there is also a narrative that airlines are filling planes (but its really domestic). People just fundamentally don't understand what is actually happening - particularly for longhaul routes.


"Very light" is relative, TPAC loads are way down, TATL is not down nearly as much. UA's TATL load factor over the past few months was ~70%. Domestic and Latin America is at or above 2019 loads.

Image

https://www.airlines.org/dataset/impact ... -updates/#
https://simpleflying.com/united-airlines-2022-europe/


No, it isn't relative. I was very explicit that long-haul loads were very light, sans a few flights to/from touristy places in Europe. Unsurprisingly, these touristy places represent the bulk of long-haul capacity at the moment, so when you lump their data together, it's incredibly misleading. DL can fill up planes headed to touristy places like FCO, MAD, CDG, AMS but not LHR, FRA, JNB, etc. Of course, DL's fortunate that much of its Atlantic capacity is headed to CDG & AMS.


If you have Load Factor by destination please share, otherwise it is conjecture (however true it might be), and it should not be asserted as fact, as the mods have stated multiple times in recent days.
 
WidebodyPTV
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 30, 2021 10:03 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
n9801f wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
"Very light" is relative, TPAC loads are way down, TATL is not down nearly as much. UA's TATL load factor over the past few months was ~70%. Domestic and Latin America is at or above 2019 loads.

Honestly, in this context load factor tells you very little of the story.

Long haul flights are down hugely vs. 2019.

So LF just tells you that the few flights that operated weren't empty.

Also the yield component is down in most markets due to very limited business travel.

The combination of reduced flights and depressed business travel will likely add up to a big revenue decrease vs. 2019. Especially in long haul. To a lesser extent in domestic.

We'll get a clearer picture when 3Q earnings come out. But given the Delta variant's impact, I doubt it will be a very pretty picture.


I don't disagree, but the poster was discussing loads. Not profitability or revenue.

WidebodyPTV wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

"Very light" is relative, TPAC loads are way down, TATL is not down nearly as much. UA's TATL load factor over the past few months was ~70%. Domestic and Latin America is at or above 2019 loads.

Image

https://www.airlines.org/dataset/impact ... -updates/#
https://simpleflying.com/united-airlines-2022-europe/


No, it isn't relative. I was very explicit that long-haul loads were very light, sans a few flights to/from touristy places in Europe. Unsurprisingly, these touristy places represent the bulk of long-haul capacity at the moment, so when you lump their data together, it's incredibly misleading. DL can fill up planes headed to touristy places like FCO, MAD, CDG, AMS but not LHR, FRA, JNB, etc. Of course, DL's fortunate that much of its Atlantic capacity is headed to CDG & AMS.


If you have Load Factor by destination please share, otherwise it is conjecture (however true it might be), and it should not be asserted as fact, as the mods have stated multiple times in recent days.


They're frequently posted (and removed) on APC. Seat maps less than 24-hours out also provide a pretty general idea (e.g. HND shows only a handful of seats occupied, whereas AMS is the opposite).
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:17 am

Please stay on topic. There's no need for comments to get personal or political in nature.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
LAXffDUB
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri Sep 03, 2021 4:48 pm

Does anybody have any idea what's going on with the LAX/SYD/LAX rotation? Last night's outbound cancelled, today's inbound is running 9+ hours late. This has happened several times this summer. Perhaps with problems with the equipment?
 
leginmat
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:52 pm

Is there any plans for DL to return to LGB flying from LAS? I believe the route got shelved due to the pandemic but any plans on a return? Thanks
 
WidebodyPTV
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:24 pm

leginmat wrote:
Is there any plans for DL to return to LGB flying from LAS? I believe the route got shelved due to the pandemic but any plans on a return? Thanks


I doubt either LGB or SNA will return. WN bulked up capacity at LGB, and G4/F9/NK entered the market from SNA. SNA went from having the highest fares to LAS from Southern California to the lowest. And LGB isn’t that far behind: in fact, it frequently has WN’s lowest fares.
 
MSJYOP28Apilot
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sat Sep 04, 2021 6:11 am

DL currently fly SLC, BOS, SEA, ATL, MSP, DTW, JFK to AMS. The Netherlands just imposed a quarantine on vaccinated Americans and a ban on unvaccinated. Will DL be able to maintain AMS service from all these stations with cargo or will they be trimming their AMS schedules?
 
tjerome
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:51 pm

WidebodyPTV wrote:
DL can fill up planes headed to touristy places like FCO, MAD, CDG, AMS but not LHR, FRA, JNB, etc. Of course, DL's fortunate that much of its Atlantic capacity is headed to CDG & AMS.


FRA sometimes does fill up. LHR has had more restrictive requirements than the rest of Europe (some of those countries are changing their requirements). It's not possible for JNB to take a full load, they are running close to/at payload limits even with the plane being at most 200 passengers.
 
ahj2000
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sat Sep 04, 2021 7:09 pm

MSJYOP28Apilot wrote:
DL currently fly SLC, BOS, SEA, ATL, MSP, DTW, JFK to AMS. The Netherlands just imposed a quarantine on vaccinated Americans and a ban on unvaccinated. Will DL be able to maintain AMS service from all these stations with cargo or will they be trimming their AMS schedules?

AMS is still the primary connection to the EU. I can’t see them dropping that much—just like AA flew a ton to LHR when Americans couldn’t do much in the UK. However, I’d imagine anything that’s more than daily is dropped down to 1x for sure and maybe less on some of the less busy routes
 
x1234
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:51 pm

Did DL cancel ICN-MNL? Pre-COVID there was a loyal FF base ex-NW that DL decided MNL was a station DL had physical presence. Now post-COVID it’s easier to flow the traffic to KE.
 
rjbesikof
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:38 pm

Noticed something on DL's LAX-Latin America network. CUN and SJD are both down to one daily and LIR (Guanacaste, Costa Rica) is gone (the only flight is a daily service from ATL). Why is DL trimming down their Latin America schedule from LAX?
 
WidebodyPTV
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:02 pm

rjbesikof wrote:
Noticed something on DL's LAX-Latin America network. CUN and SJD are both down to one daily and LIR (Guanacaste, Costa Rica) is gone (the only flight is a daily service from ATL). Why is DL trimming down their Latin America schedule from LAX?


Most likely due to soft demand. Fall fares are low — most days, LAX-CUN/PVR/SJD have been floating around $100 outbound and $130 inbound, including tax/fees.
 
gsg013
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:44 pm

WidebodyPTV wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
Noticed something on DL's LAX-Latin America network. CUN and SJD are both down to one daily and LIR (Guanacaste, Costa Rica) is gone (the only flight is a daily service from ATL). Why is DL trimming down their Latin America schedule from LAX?


Most likely due to soft demand. Fall fares are low — most days, LAX-CUN/PVR/SJD have been floating around $100 outbound and $130 inbound, including tax/fees.


Currently DL is running daily 3x A330 or sometimes 1x 767-300er and 2x A330 on ATL-SJU... When I look out to February this looks to switch back to all 757 on ATL-SJU is there any guidance if the 757 is a placeholder if if they will continue flying widebodies on ATL-SJU into the new year?
 
rjbesikof
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:12 pm

gsg013 wrote:
WidebodyPTV wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
Noticed something on DL's LAX-Latin America network. CUN and SJD are both down to one daily and LIR (Guanacaste, Costa Rica) is gone (the only flight is a daily service from ATL). Why is DL trimming down their Latin America schedule from LAX?


Most likely due to soft demand. Fall fares are low — most days, LAX-CUN/PVR/SJD have been floating around $100 outbound and $130 inbound, including tax/fees.


Currently DL is running daily 3x A330 or sometimes 1x 767-300er and 2x A330 on ATL-SJU... When I look out to February this looks to switch back to all 757 on ATL-SJU is there any guidance if the 757 is a placeholder if if they will continue flying widebodies on ATL-SJU into the new year?


We don't know. They just freed up a bunch of 330s with the delay of PDX-ICN/HND into NS22.
 
factsonly
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:45 pm

MSJYOP28Apilot wrote:
DL currently fly SLC, BOS, SEA, ATL, MSP, DTW, JFK to AMS. The Netherlands just imposed a quarantine on vaccinated Americans and a ban on unvaccinated. Will DL be able to maintain AMS service from all these stations with cargo or will they be trimming their AMS schedules?


The opposite, Delta is adding a 2nd service DTW-AMS-DTW from 14 September three days a week:

Operates every Tue, Thu, Sun from DTW on A359 in addition to the daily A359 DL134/DL135:

- 14 Sep 2021 DL136 DTW 21.20 - AMS 11.00 A359 N501DN Tue, Thu, Sun
- 15 Sep 2021 DL137 AMS 14.30 - DTW 17.15 A359 N501DN Mon, Wed, Fri
 
factsonly
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:31 pm

MSJYOP28Apilot wrote:
The Netherlands just imposed a quarantine on vaccinated Americans and a ban on unvaccinated.


Today the Netherlands Government announced that from September 22nd vaccinated Americans (and Brits) can enter the country without quarantine.
 
jbs2886
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:39 pm

factsonly wrote:
MSJYOP28Apilot wrote:
The Netherlands just imposed a quarantine on vaccinated Americans and a ban on unvaccinated.


Today the Netherlands Government announced that from September 22nd vaccinated Americans (and Brits) can enter the country without quarantine.


That was a fast change, but numbers have started decreasing again in the US.
 
rjbesikof
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:05 pm

factsonly wrote:
MSJYOP28Apilot wrote:
The Netherlands just imposed a quarantine on vaccinated Americans and a ban on unvaccinated.


Today the Netherlands Government announced that from September 22nd vaccinated Americans (and Brits) can enter the country without quarantine.


Source?
 
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ADent
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:02 pm

x1234 wrote:
Did DL cancel ICN-MNL? Pre-COVID there was a loyal FF base ex-NW that DL decided MNL was a station DL had physical presence. Now post-COVID it’s easier to flow the traffic to KE.

DL was flying the route because KE didn’t have enough traffic rights on that route - at least partly.

Now with KE and OZ combining will KE need DL’s traffic rights?
 
Detroit313
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:18 pm

Updates

Delta drops JFK - Dubrovnik for next year.

Also drops Boston - KEF.

Atlanta - Athens survives and is resuming in May of 2022!
 
LAXffDUB
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:44 pm

I see #40 was cancelled today (09/25). Anybody know why? Been lots of delays and cancellations over the past several weeks on that rotation.
 
socalflyer00
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 30, 2021 12:38 am

Is there any confirmation that DL has cut JFK-DBV for 2022. Anyone know the performance of that route this past summer? I was on it in September and it was 100% full.

Also, is there any news on when DL will bring back DTW-SNA, if ever?
 
DLASFlyer
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:38 am

DL is leaving DRO after just 6 months citing a lack of sustainable demand. The final flight is on Halloween.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:26 am

DLASFlyer wrote:
DL is leaving DRO after just 6 months citing a lack of sustainable demand. The final flight is on Halloween.


As someone who just flew into GJT on Saturday on a packed flight well after summer, it’s hard to believe any CO destination isn’t sustainable. Tourists are flocking to CO, UT, AZ still like crazy! Unlike GJT’s 4x daily SLC flights DL only ran 2x DRO-SLC on a CR2, so the schedule and equip wasn’t great. Meanwhile AA flys DRO to both PHX & DFW with First Class equipped planes.
 
WidebodyPTV
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 30, 2021 5:21 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
DLASFlyer wrote:
DL is leaving DRO after just 6 months citing a lack of sustainable demand. The final flight is on Halloween.


As someone who just flew into GJT on Saturday on a packed flight well after summer, it’s hard to believe any CO destination isn’t sustainable. Tourists are flocking to CO, UT, AZ still like crazy! Unlike GJT’s 4x daily SLC flights DL only ran 2x DRO-SLC on a CR2, so the schedule and equip wasn’t great. Meanwhile AA flys DRO to both PHX & DFW with First Class equipped planes.


SkyWest / Delta were making so much money of the route, they had to end it because they didn’t know what to do with it ;). In this environment, with adjusted average fares near historical lows, load factors can be insanely deceptive. I’m sure Skywest / Delta received plenty of feedback/data for the route before cancelling it.

As I’ve written many times before, ultimately, most of the COVID-era adds by the legacies will be cut, as their networks aren’t built to handle them.
 
Blerg
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Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 30, 2021 5:50 am

socalflyer00 wrote:
Is there any confirmation that DL has cut JFK-DBV for 2022. Anyone know the performance of that route this past summer? I was on it in September and it was 100% full.

Also, is there any news on when DL will bring back DTW-SNA, if ever?


Where did you get that information from? Maybe they still haven't loaded the flights into the system for next summer. United operated EWR flights so loads might have been good but I don't know how great yields were for DL. I think two carriers to a place like DBV is too much.
 
socalflyer00
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 6:19 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:53 pm

Blerg wrote:
socalflyer00 wrote:
Is there any confirmation that DL has cut JFK-DBV for 2022. Anyone know the performance of that route this past summer? I was on it in September and it was 100% full.

Also, is there any news on when DL will bring back DTW-SNA, if ever?


Where did you get that information from? Maybe they still haven't loaded the flights into the system for next summer. United operated EWR flights so loads might have been good but I don't know how great yields were for DL. I think two carriers to a place like DBV is too much.



Someone mentioned the cancellation above 5 or 6 replies back
 
jvlmd81
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:14 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:56 pm

How about PDL any word of it returning?
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 1819
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri Oct 01, 2021 4:09 am

WidebodyPTV wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
DLASFlyer wrote:
DL is leaving DRO after just 6 months citing a lack of sustainable demand. The final flight is on Halloween.


As someone who just flew into GJT on Saturday on a packed flight well after summer, it’s hard to believe any CO destination isn’t sustainable. Tourists are flocking to CO, UT, AZ still like crazy! Unlike GJT’s 4x daily SLC flights DL only ran 2x DRO-SLC on a CR2, so the schedule and equip wasn’t great. Meanwhile AA flys DRO to both PHX & DFW with First Class equipped planes.


SkyWest / Delta were making so much money of the route, they had to end it because they didn’t know what to do with it ;). In this environment, with adjusted average fares near historical lows, load factors can be insanely deceptive. I’m sure Skywest / Delta received plenty of feedback/data for the route before cancelling it.

As I’ve written many times before, ultimately, most of the COVID-era adds by the legacies will be cut, as their networks aren’t built to handle them.


They weren’t making money because they didn’t even attempt to compete. Awful schedule and awful aircraft. They needed to serve an eastern hub like ATL to even attempt to be successful. Otherwise a large chunk of passengers wanting to go to DRO from the east coast would have to double connect. Basically any mid-large markets without SLC service (JAX, CHS, RIC, SDF, IND, etc). Why double connect when all of those cities can single connect on AA via DFW?
 
Blerg
Posts: 5122
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri Oct 01, 2021 5:48 am

socalflyer00 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
socalflyer00 wrote:
Is there any confirmation that DL has cut JFK-DBV for 2022. Anyone know the performance of that route this past summer? I was on it in September and it was 100% full.

Also, is there any news on when DL will bring back DTW-SNA, if ever?


Where did you get that information from? Maybe they still haven't loaded the flights into the system for next summer. United operated EWR flights so loads might have been good but I don't know how great yields were for DL. I think two carriers to a place like DBV is too much.



Someone mentioned the cancellation above 5 or 6 replies back


Thank you, found it. Would be great if someone here knew how they performed on the route this year. I guess yields were trash.
 
WidebodyPTV
Posts: 675
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:06 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri Oct 01, 2021 12:38 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
WidebodyPTV wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:

As someone who just flew into GJT on Saturday on a packed flight well after summer, it’s hard to believe any CO destination isn’t sustainable. Tourists are flocking to CO, UT, AZ still like crazy! Unlike GJT’s 4x daily SLC flights DL only ran 2x DRO-SLC on a CR2, so the schedule and equip wasn’t great. Meanwhile AA flys DRO to both PHX & DFW with First Class equipped planes.


SkyWest / Delta were making so much money of the route, they had to end it because they didn’t know what to do with it ;). In this environment, with adjusted average fares near historical lows, load factors can be insanely deceptive. I’m sure Skywest / Delta received plenty of feedback/data for the route before cancelling it.

As I’ve written many times before, ultimately, most of the COVID-era adds by the legacies will be cut, as their networks aren’t built to handle them.


They weren’t making money because they didn’t even attempt to compete. Awful schedule and awful aircraft. They needed to serve an eastern hub like ATL to even attempt to be successful. Otherwise a large chunk of passengers wanting to go to DRO from the east coast would have to double connect. Basically any mid-large markets without SLC service (JAX, CHS, RIC, SDF, IND, etc). Why double connect when all of those cities can single connect on AA via DFW?


The route was planned and operated at-risk by OO; they didn’t see a path toward profitability so they’re pulling out. DL has sufficient data to determine if they should give it a go.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 10041
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri Oct 01, 2021 1:04 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Basically any mid-large markets without SLC service (JAX, CHS, RIC, SDF, IND, etc). Why double connect when all of those cities can single connect on AA via DFW?


JAX, CHS, RIC, SDF, IND large markets to DRO? Hah hah hah! BTS data put those at #52, 60, 70, 71 and 44, respectively, among U.S. airports for arriving passengers for 12 mos ending 6/2021. Only JAX and IND had more than 1.5 mil total arriving passengers.

SLC's coverage from ACTUAL large markets in the East is really pretty good.
 
zmatt1
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2002 3:35 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri Oct 01, 2021 2:53 pm

Is there any logic to Delta jumping into the PDX-SAN nonstop market? I travel this route frequently. Southwest used to offer 2 a day. Alaska is the only option at the moment.
 
rjbesikof
Posts: 335
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:21 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sat Oct 02, 2021 4:43 pm

DL is going to add new routes out of BOS, which I think warrants its own thread:
-ATH, TLV, BWI, DEN, SAN.
Not loaded into DL's website yet.
https://thepointsguy.com/news/delta-bos ... s-ath-tlv/
Always thought TLV from another city was going to happen.
 
deanva1957
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2016 3:55 pm

When will Delta return to airports suspended due to covid?

Sat Oct 02, 2021 4:59 pm

Anyone know when Delta will be returning to the airports they pulled out at the beginning of the COVID-19? I live near PHF one of those affected.
Last edited by atcsundevil on Sat Oct 02, 2021 5:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Non descriptive title
 
N292UX
Posts: 716
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:08 pm

Re: When will Delta return to airports suspended due to covid?

Sat Oct 02, 2021 7:23 pm

Some are probably permanent and probably won't see DL service for a long, long time, and possibly not at all. I'd imagine they eventually return to MHT, CAK, and AVP, but I'm not so sure about PHF yet.
 
SurfandSnow
Posts: 1676
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:09 am

Re: When will Delta return to airports suspended due to covid?

Sat Oct 02, 2021 7:47 pm

Isn't Delta coming back to ASE in a few months? I wonder if they would ever return to SBA.. but the recent failure of DRO makes me wonder if smaller markets in the West just don't really work from SLC. After all, ASE isn't going to be coming back from SLC; it will just be served from ATL and LAX.
Last edited by SurfandSnow on Sat Oct 02, 2021 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
a320flyer
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 5:28 pm

Re: When will Delta return to airports suspended due to covid?

Sat Oct 02, 2021 7:50 pm

DL has already parked a large chunk of the CRJ-200s, so there is limited aircraft for connection routes. I can't image that many of the small cities that were completely suspend will ever come back.

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