Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
jbs2886
Posts: 4015
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: DL Adds JFK-ARN

Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:00 pm

acavpics wrote:
I know this is a bit off topic, but is it safe to assume that omicron is mild enough so that it won't hamper such TATL additions for S22?


Seems premature, particularly as that assumes no other variant after omicron for 6 months out.
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 14739
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

Re: DL Adds JFK-ARN

Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:02 pm

acavpics wrote:
I know this is a bit off topic, but is it safe to assume that omicron is mild enough so that it won't hamper such TATL additions for S22?


The reporting is that this variant is going to sky rocket cases, possibly to pandemic highs, but that it will quickly collapse around February/March.
 
SESGDL
Posts: 3135
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:25 am

Re: DL Adds JFK-ARN

Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:06 pm

acavpics wrote:
I know this is a bit off topic, but is it safe to assume that omicron is mild enough so that it won't hamper such TATL additions for S22?


Travel is impacted more by restrictions, not as much by perceived severity of the variant. If there are heavy travel restrictions, then demand will plummet.

Jeremy
 
gsg013
Posts: 663
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:03 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:30 pm

USAirALB wrote:
Clipper73 wrote:
More Delta cuts.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/d ... hp&pc=U531


Origin Destination Operated by
Atlanta (ATL) Rochester, Minnesota (RST) Endeavor Air CRJ900
Boston (BOS) Bermuda (BDA) Delta A319
Minneapolis-St. Paul (MSP) Lansing, Michigan (LAN) Endeavor Air CRJ200
Minneapolis-St. Paul (MSP) Freeland, Michigan (MBS) Endeavor Air CRJ200
Minneapolis-St. Paul (MSP) Tulsa (TUL) SkyWest E175
Salt Lake City (SLC) Cleveland (CLE) Delta Airbus A319/A320 mix
Salt Lake City (SLC) Columbus (CMH) Delta Airbus A319/A320 mix
Salt Lake City (SLC) Des Moines (DSM) SkyWest E175
Salt Lake City (SLC) Madison, Wisconsin (MSN) SkyWest E175
Salt Lake City (SLC) Pittsburgh (PIT) Delta Airbus A319

Fascinating to me that outside Florida and DL hubs, really the only destinations in the East that seem to support DL/SLC service are WAS, CLT, PHL, and RDU.


SLC-BNA has been long standing and has done pretty well!
 
gsg013
Posts: 663
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:03 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:41 pm

jplatts wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Assuming EWR was excluded because if fell into the NYC category?


The PDEW of EWR-SEA was 285 passengers/day in Q2 2021, and EWR is one of the top airports traveled to from SEA that DL doesn't currently serve nonstop from SEA. However, DL already has nonstop service to JFK from SEA.


UA has the fortress hub at EWR flying 3x daily EWR-SEA, Alaska also flies 3x daily EWR-SEA. Just think the yields would be too low for DL to fly EWR-SEA, especially with DL on JFK-SEA... not saying they'd never do it but I'd think business travel would need to return significantly before that happens. Could be an A220-300 Route
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 5355
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: DL Adds JFK-ARN

Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:24 pm

acavpics wrote:
I know this is a bit off topic, but is it safe to assume that omicron is mild enough so that it won't hamper such TATL additions for S22?


It depends on border restrictions, entry requirements (and exit requirements) and where we are with the pandemic, omicron spread, and so forth around February. If demand drops, cancellations pile up, etc...then I can see some serious pruning of the S22 TATL network but it is still a bit early to tell. That said, DL has already warned that operational disruptions, staff shortages, etc...are a very likely outcome of this latest phase of the pandemic and such operational issues can and would also trigger network changes, and so it's not just border issues.
 
Joeblow
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:28 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Wed Dec 22, 2021 2:36 am

Surprised to see BOS-BDA on that list. That was a route that came from the Northeast Airlines merger in the early 70s. Pretty sure it has operated continuously in the 50 years since that merger.
 
HanCholo
Posts: 66
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:12 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:33 am

USAirALB wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
SurfandSnow wrote:

Remember, there have been plenty of other failures for DL at SLC in recent years as well. Others include:

SLC-ACV
SLC-BFL
SLC-FAR
SLC-FSD
SLC-GUC
SLC-ICT
SLC-KOA
SLC-NRT
SLC-SBA
SLC-SBP
SLC-SLE
SLC-XNA
SLC-YEG
SLC-YXC
SLC-YUM

SLC-SAF was proposed, but IIRC never even came to fruition.


SLC-BLI
SLC-YKM
SLC-YYJ

These were also tried briefly along with SLE as you mentioned.

They also did SLC-BDL at one point around 2006 or so as well.

SLC-ELP has been tried at least twice, maybe more. I feel that ELP-DTW would have better chances of success. The twin-plant industry in the city of CJS across from ELP has car part manufacturing facilities and there could be a business demand, but I'm curious as to what the PDEW figures are.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 9327
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:37 am

HanCholo wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

SLC-BLI
SLC-YKM
SLC-YYJ

These were also tried briefly along with SLE as you mentioned.

They also did SLC-BDL at one point around 2006 or so as well.

SLC-ELP has been tried at least twice, maybe more. I feel that ELP-DTW would have better chances of success. The twin-plant industry in the city of CJS across from ELP has car part manufacturing facilities and there could be a business demand, but I'm curious as to what the PDEW figures are.

Moot point in the current near/medium term demand environment. DTW-ELP isn't happening anytime soon.

Need to get service back to MTY, plus the E90 AM flying into secondary Mexico markets.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 9327
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:42 am

I was flying out of IAD tonight, I didn't realize (or more likely) had forgotten that DL was flying IAD-SEA on the A221.
Didn't realize DL was fly the A220 on anything of that stage length.
I thought this route was typically either B738 or A319 in the past.
 
User avatar
NWAESC
Posts: 1711
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:02 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Wed Dec 22, 2021 1:52 pm

Legend757 wrote:
Here's the SLAPRASM for these routes for CY 2019 compared to DL's domestic average.


I know what PRASM is, but what does SLA imply? "Salt Lake Airport?"
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 9327
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Wed Dec 22, 2021 2:00 pm

Stage length adjusted
 
Clipper73
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:21 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Wed Dec 22, 2021 2:09 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
HanCholo wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
They also did SLC-BDL at one point around 2006 or so as well.

SLC-ELP has been tried at least twice, maybe more. I feel that ELP-DTW would have better chances of success. The twin-plant industry in the city of CJS across from ELP has car part manufacturing facilities and there could be a business demand, but I'm curious as to what the PDEW figures are.

Moot point in the current near/medium term demand environment. DTW-ELP isn't happening anytime soon.

Need to get service back to MTY, plus the E90 AM flying into secondary Mexico markets.


DTW-MTY is loaded on Delta but let's see if it sticks.
 
User avatar
NWAESC
Posts: 1711
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:02 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Wed Dec 22, 2021 2:29 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Stage length adjusted


Thank you!! Google was not my friend...
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 11154
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Wed Dec 22, 2021 2:35 pm

HanCholo wrote:
SLC-ELP has been tried at least twice, maybe more. I feel that ELP-DTW would have better chances of success. The twin-plant industry in the city of CJS across from ELP has car part manufacturing facilities and there could be a business demand, but I'm curious as to what the PDEW figures are.


I've been surprised for a decade on DTW-ELP, with the same argument that it should. That strikes me as a perfect A221 route, with auto/supplier traffic that values time and would be happy to skip the DFW connection - especially when they're sending overtime-eligible hourly and salaried people. And yet it hasn't happened.

Legend757 wrote:
And once Phase 3 of the project is complete in 2025, there indeed will be more contact gates (key word contact) than there was in the formal facility. This does not include additional expansion of Concourse B, which I wouldn't be surprised to be added to the project soon. And none of it would be happening if DL's blessing. The airport is smarter than that.


Thanks for your posts with LF and fare data.

Why is the key word contact?

It's been a while since I looked at the SLC plans, but as I remember it wasn't adding a lot of gates (single digits?) in the approved phases of construction. Is that correct? Are other carriers giving up gates so DL gets meaningfully more?

I have no hate for SLC, but I think it's in a tough spot, with both UA and WN committed to significant growth in DEN, which in 2019 had about 3x the domestic O&D of SLC, IIRC. (My data source is gone for that timeframe.) If DL were trimming SLC to try to preserve the hubs at LAX and SEA I wouldn't disagree with that as a long-term strategy.

Oh, and SLC has more domestic O&D than CLT, despite being a (modestly) smaller CSA. CLT's proximity to other Southeast cities means that a lot of people drive rather than fly. CLT sees a lot of flights - but at much smaller avg gauge than ATL, meaning higher CASM. Anybody have a rank of stage-length-adjusted yield of AA hubs? CLT had the largest fraction of connecting traffic for any of the thirty largest U.S. airports in 2019 (again, IIRC). In available passenger mile profitability I suspect CLT is no great prize, but it gets volume and helps AA leverage overhead.
 
Legend757
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 6:59 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Wed Dec 22, 2021 3:50 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Legend757 wrote:
And once Phase 3 of the project is complete in 2025, there indeed will be more contact gates (key word contact) than there was in the formal facility. This does not include additional expansion of Concourse B, which I wouldn't be surprised to be added to the project soon. And none of it would be happening if DL's blessing. The airport is smarter than that.


Thanks for your posts with LF and fare data.

Why is the key word contact?

It's been a while since I looked at the SLC plans, but as I remember it wasn't adding a lot of gates (single digits?) in the approved phases of construction. Is that correct? Are other carriers giving up gates so DL gets meaningfully more?

I have no hate for SLC, but I think it's in a tough spot, with both UA and WN committed to significant growth in DEN, which in 2019 had about 3x the domestic O&D of SLC, IIRC. (My data source is gone for that timeframe.) If DL were trimming SLC to try to preserve the hubs at LAX and SEA I wouldn't disagree with that as a long-term strategy.

Oh, and SLC has more domestic O&D than CLT, despite being a (modestly) smaller CSA. CLT's proximity to other Southeast cities means that a lot of people drive rather than fly. CLT sees a lot of flights - but at much smaller avg gauge than ATL, meaning higher CASM. Anybody have a rank of stage-length-adjusted yield of AA hubs? CLT had the largest fraction of connecting traffic for any of the thirty largest U.S. airports in 2019 (again, IIRC). In available passenger mile profitability I suspect CLT is no great prize, but it gets volume and helps AA leverage overhead.


In the former facility, a number of the RJ gates were ground load only. In the new facility, all of the gates will be connected with jet bridges and the gate apron will be able to accommodate various sizes of aircraft. So, although the gate count when Phase 3 is completed will actually be less than the former facility, the gates are much more versatile/efficient, which makes them much more useful. While not part of the program yet, Concourse B has the ability to build out an additional 15-16 gates, which will be 10+ more than the former facility.

DEN is a powerhouse, no doubt about it. SLC's O&D is growing quickly, however, and represented 62% of the airport's total passenger share in 2019. Historically, SLC's connecting share was much higher. While LAX and SEA are critical components of DL's network, SLC plays its own role that I don't believe can be adequately replicated through LAX and SEA alone. Rather the three work in tandem and provide DL a solid western network.

Here's the AA data you requested in addition to DL (SLAPRASM for hubs CY2019)

AA
JFK 15.62
DCA 15.12
DFW13.70
MIA 13.61
PHL 13.48
LAX 13.44
ORD 13.33
CLT 12.85
PHX 12.27

DL
DTW 14.49
LGA 14.40
ATL 14.25
JFK 14.17
MSP 14.15
SLC 13.74
LAX 13.45
BOS 12.74
SEA 11.63
 
reasonable
Posts: 135
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:27 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:33 pm

Is SLAPRASM/PRASM a metric of yield or just raw revenue without factoring operating costs?
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 6844
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Wed Dec 22, 2021 5:24 pm

reasonable wrote:
Is SLAPRASM/PRASM a metric of yield or just raw revenue without factoring operating costs?


SLAPRASM

Stands for Stage Length Adjusted Passenger Revenue Per Available Seat Mile.

So it is a yield related metric, not factoring in operating costs.
 
User avatar
FlyingJhawk
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:26 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Wed Dec 22, 2021 7:48 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
I was flying out of IAD tonight, I didn't realize (or more likely) had forgotten that DL was flying IAD-SEA on the A221.
Didn't realize DL was fly the A220 on anything of that stage length.
I thought this route was typically either B738 or A319 in the past.


Actually it's an A220-300, but to your point I didn't realize the flew them transcon. In January DL is finally making the MCI-SEA switch to the A221 - a move that was supposed to happen last year.

I've done many A221 flights on DL, albeit in F, but I'd take this over any other DL narrow body other than the 752/753. Love, love the A220!
 
jbs2886
Posts: 4015
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Wed Dec 22, 2021 7:51 pm

FlyingJhawk wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
I was flying out of IAD tonight, I didn't realize (or more likely) had forgotten that DL was flying IAD-SEA on the A221.
Didn't realize DL was fly the A220 on anything of that stage length.
I thought this route was typically either B738 or A319 in the past.


Actually it's an A220-300, but to your point I didn't realize the flew them transcon. In January DL is finally making the MCI-SEA switch to the A221 - a move that was supposed to happen last year.

I've done many A221 flights on DL, albeit in F, but I'd take this over any other DL narrow body other than the 752/753. Love, love the A220!


Huh? It’s definitely been a -100 at least the past few days, today, and tomorrow.
 
Deltran757
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:37 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Wed Dec 22, 2021 8:44 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
FlyingJhawk wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
I was flying out of IAD tonight, I didn't realize (or more likely) had forgotten that DL was flying IAD-SEA on the A221.
Didn't realize DL was fly the A220 on anything of that stage length.
I thought this route was typically either B738 or A319 in the past.


Actually it's an A220-300, but to your point I didn't realize the flew them transcon. In January DL is finally making the MCI-SEA switch to the A221 - a move that was supposed to happen last year.

I've done many A221 flights on DL, albeit in F, but I'd take this over any other DL narrow body other than the 752/753. Love, love the A220!


Huh? It’s definitely been a -100 at least the past few days, today, and tomorrow.


Today and tomorrow, it’s showing A220-300. It goes back to A220-100 Friday and Sunday. No flight on Saturday.
 
BoeingG
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:01 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri Dec 24, 2021 1:03 am

OPERATIONAL CHALLENGES THAT MIRROR UNITED'S:
ALLEGED MESSAGE TO PILOTS:
"We are experiencing an increased impact on trip coverage due to a combination of factors, including Omicron and weather in certain locations. If available to fly in support of your fellow pilots and getting customers where they need to go for the holidays, please update your slip request."

SOURCE: https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1474 ... 29248?s=20
 
Detroit313
Posts: 743
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri Dec 24, 2021 1:35 am

Omicron causing many cancellations.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 9327
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri Dec 24, 2021 1:38 am

Its COVID / Omnicron...... you go to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200....10 day quarentine for you.

The next 1-2 weeks are going to be an epic CF in the industry.....you heard it here first.
 
trueblew
Posts: 399
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri Dec 24, 2021 1:56 am

BoeingG wrote:
OPERATIONAL CHALLENGES THAT MIRROR UNITED'S:
ALLEGED MESSAGE TO PILOTS:
"We are experiencing an increased impact on trip coverage due to a combination of factors, including Omicron and weather in certain locations. If available to fly in support of your fellow pilots and getting customers where they need to go for the holidays, please update your slip request."

SOURCE: https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1474 ... 29248?s=20


How exactly is working on your day off "in support of your fellow pilots" and not merely in support of greedy, manipulative executives?
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6880
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri Dec 24, 2021 2:01 am

trueblew wrote:
BoeingG wrote:
OPERATIONAL CHALLENGES THAT MIRROR UNITED'S:
ALLEGED MESSAGE TO PILOTS:
"We are experiencing an increased impact on trip coverage due to a combination of factors, including Omicron and weather in certain locations. If available to fly in support of your fellow pilots and getting customers where they need to go for the holidays, please update your slip request."

SOURCE: https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1474 ... 29248?s=20


How exactly is working on your day off "in support of your fellow pilots" and not merely in support of greedy, manipulative executives?


Maybe it’s about the traveling public. While I personally tend to support the workers and unions over greedy management, your apparent attitude is concerning. It’s not about greedy executives, it’s about getting the traveling public on their flights on-time.
 
trueblew
Posts: 399
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri Dec 24, 2021 2:11 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
trueblew wrote:
BoeingG wrote:
OPERATIONAL CHALLENGES THAT MIRROR UNITED'S:
ALLEGED MESSAGE TO PILOTS:
"We are experiencing an increased impact on trip coverage due to a combination of factors, including Omicron and weather in certain locations. If available to fly in support of your fellow pilots and getting customers where they need to go for the holidays, please update your slip request."

SOURCE: https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1474 ... 29248?s=20


How exactly is working on your day off "in support of your fellow pilots" and not merely in support of greedy, manipulative executives?


Maybe it’s about the traveling public. While I personally tend to support the workers and unions over greedy management, your apparent attitude is concerning. It’s not about greedy executives, it’s about getting the traveling public on their flights on-time.


Then they should just say that instead of this manipulative BS about supporting "your fellow pilots." But if Delta management truly cared about the traveling public they wouldn't have a meltdown every holiday peak for the past 18 months and guilt their employees into making up for their ineptitude.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 9327
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri Dec 24, 2021 2:14 am

Well.....the past 18 months have been anything but normal, for a variety of reasons.....just sayin'
 
Clipper73
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:21 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri Dec 24, 2021 2:17 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
trueblew wrote:
BoeingG wrote:
OPERATIONAL CHALLENGES THAT MIRROR UNITED'S:
ALLEGED MESSAGE TO PILOTS:
"We are experiencing an increased impact on trip coverage due to a combination of factors, including Omicron and weather in certain locations. If available to fly in support of your fellow pilots and getting customers where they need to go for the holidays, please update your slip request."

SOURCE: https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1474 ... 29248?s=20


How exactly is working on your day off "in support of your fellow pilots" and not merely in support of greedy, manipulative executives?


Maybe it’s about the traveling public. While I personally tend to support the workers and unions over greedy management, your apparent attitude is concerning. It’s not about greedy executives, it’s about getting the traveling public on their flights on-time.


Don't schedule more flights than you have staff for plain and simple. This is not a new situation so schedule according to what you have staff for. It's not about getting people where they need to go it's about selling inventory than you physically are capable of delivering and then pressuring you staff to cover these flights
 
trueblew
Posts: 399
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri Dec 24, 2021 2:17 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Well.....the past 18 months have been anything but normal, for a variety of reasons.....just sayin'


And many airlines have handled the past 18 months *much* better than others (such as DL).
 
Clipper73
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:21 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri Dec 24, 2021 2:18 am

trueblew wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
trueblew wrote:

How exactly is working on your day off "in support of your fellow pilots" and not merely in support of greedy, manipulative executives?


Maybe it’s about the traveling public. While I personally tend to support the workers and unions over greedy management, your apparent attitude is concerning. It’s not about greedy executives, it’s about getting the traveling public on their flights on-time.


Then they should just say that instead of this manipulative BS about supporting "your fellow pilots." But if Delta management truly cared about the traveling public they wouldn't have a meltdown every holiday peak for the past 18 months and guilt their employees into making up for their ineptitude.


Well said it's beyond me why this concept is so hard to grasp for so many.
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6880
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri Dec 24, 2021 2:40 am

Clipper73 wrote:
trueblew wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

Maybe it’s about the traveling public. While I personally tend to support the workers and unions over greedy management, your apparent attitude is concerning. It’s not about greedy executives, it’s about getting the traveling public on their flights on-time.


Then they should just say that instead of this manipulative BS about supporting "your fellow pilots." But if Delta management truly cared about the traveling public they wouldn't have a meltdown every holiday peak for the past 18 months and guilt their employees into making up for their ineptitude.


Well said it's beyond me why this concept is so hard to grasp for so many.


I feel you guys. I work for Boeing. Not like I don’t know a little about greedy self-serving leadership who blames and guilts others for their own bad leadership.

When I go to work, I do it for my co-workers and traveling public, not management.
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 6844
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri Dec 24, 2021 5:15 am

Clipper73 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
trueblew wrote:

How exactly is working on your day off "in support of your fellow pilots" and not merely in support of greedy, manipulative executives?


Maybe it’s about the traveling public. While I personally tend to support the workers and unions over greedy management, your apparent attitude is concerning. It’s not about greedy executives, it’s about getting the traveling public on their flights on-time.


Don't schedule more flights than you have staff for plain and simple. This is not a new situation so schedule according to what you have staff for. It's not about getting people where they need to go it's about selling inventory than you physically are capable of delivering and then pressuring you staff to cover these flights


Not this argument again, Delta is flying the smallest % of its 2019 schedule out of the US airlines by a long shot. They are not over scheduling.
 
Cactusjuba
Posts: 315
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:06 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri Dec 24, 2021 6:06 am

Midwestindy wrote:
Clipper73 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

Maybe it’s about the traveling public. While I personally tend to support the workers and unions over greedy management, your apparent attitude is concerning. It’s not about greedy executives, it’s about getting the traveling public on their flights on-time.


Don't schedule more flights than you have staff for plain and simple. This is not a new situation so schedule according to what you have staff for. It's not about getting people where they need to go it's about selling inventory than you physically are capable of delivering and then pressuring you staff to cover these flights


Not this argument again, Delta is flying the smallest % of its 2019 schedule out of the US airlines by a long shot. They are not over scheduling.


If it’s relying on a large share of crews picking up overtime multi-day work trips, short notice, over Christmas… then yes they are scheduling too much with insufficient reserves. It’s like dispatching a flight without reserve fuel. Got to have enough in the tank for contingencies. My perception is that omicron is being given too much credit here.
 
Clipper73
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:21 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri Dec 24, 2021 11:20 am

Cactusjuba wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Clipper73 wrote:

Don't schedule more flights than you have staff for plain and simple. This is not a new situation so schedule according to what you have staff for. It's not about getting people where they need to go it's about selling inventory than you physically are capable of delivering and then pressuring you staff to cover these flights


Not this argument again, Delta is flying the smallest % of its 2019 schedule out of the US airlines by a long shot. They are not over scheduling.


If it’s relying on a large share of crews picking up overtime multi-day work trips, short notice, over Christmas… then yes they are scheduling too much with insufficient reserves. It’s like dispatching a flight without reserve fuel. Got to have enough in the tank for contingencies. My perception is that omicron is being given too much credit here.


I agree 100% if omicron were the culprit than every airline would be suffering the same fate, but that's not the case some airlines scheduled better than others. In the name of chasing profits many people's Christmas's are going to be ruined for employees and customers alike.
 
User avatar
AVLAirlineFreq
Posts: 1631
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:31 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri Dec 24, 2021 3:22 pm

I noticed last night quite a few flights departing massively late from most airports despite excellent weather in the eastern three-quarters of the U.S.
 
jetlanta
Posts: 1685
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2001 2:35 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri Dec 24, 2021 3:34 pm

It is amazing to me how many of the last few comments indicate a complete unawareness of the the actual situation at hand. The flights scheduled for the holidays were done so months ago. Omicron wasn't a factor at the time. But I'm sure the "greedy, manipulative executives" find deep satisfaction in planning operational meltdowns over the holidays. FFS. Do you people think that this is GOOD for management? Do they get bigger bonuses when the operation crumbles?

No one wants this. All the intelligent planning in the world can't account for all of the variables at play now. Acting as if this is happening out of greed or incompetence is as ridiculous as it is decisive. Before the week is over, this is going to be affecting all airlines.
 
TW870
Posts: 1439
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:01 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri Dec 24, 2021 7:09 pm

[photoid][/photoid]
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Its COVID / Omnicron...... you go to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200....10 day quarentine for you.

The next 1-2 weeks are going to be an epic CF in the industry.....you heard it here first.


I fear you are very correct. The number of people in my friend group who have gotten Covid in the last 72 hours is striking. So far, everyone has had mild symptoms for 24 hours or less, but they are all stuck in isolation. The number of block hours a 10-day isolation takes off an airline schedule is very substantive - about 30 flight hours per crew member, and more than that for folks who work on the ground. The story of this part of the pandemic is - thankfully - going to be much less about mass casualties. But it is going to be about operational disruption in every part of the economy. I am guessing the US is going to follow the UK in reducing the isolation period with so many mild infections but intense disruption of basic functions.
 
n9801f
Posts: 562
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:29 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri Dec 24, 2021 7:31 pm

jetlanta wrote:
It is amazing to me how many of the last few comments indicate a complete unawareness of the the actual situation at hand. The flights scheduled for the holidays were done so months ago. Omicron wasn't a factor at the time. But I'm sure the "greedy, manipulative executives" find deep satisfaction in planning operational meltdowns over the holidays. FFS. Do you people think that this is GOOD for management? Do they get bigger bonuses when the operation crumbles?

No one wants this. All the intelligent planning in the world can't account for all of the variables at play now. Acting as if this is happening out of greed or incompetence is as ridiculous as it is decisive. Before the week is over, this is going to be affecting all airlines.

Yes, this was planned long ago.

What was also decided then was what level of operational risk to take. How many spare aircraft and crews? What assumptions about crews picking up trips? Etc. And these decisions influence costs, with more reliability generally costing more.

So there definitely IS some element of competence involved: judging operational risk vs. cost. It's hardly the case that Delta or any other airline is completely a "victim of circumstances". All airlines, including Delta, can influence their schedule robustness and resilience through their planning assumptions.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 11154
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Fri Dec 24, 2021 9:54 pm

n9801f wrote:
So there definitely IS some element of competence involved: judging operational risk vs. cost. It's hardly the case that Delta or any other airline is completely a "victim of circumstances". All airlines, including Delta, can influence their schedule robustness and resilience through their planning assumptions.


Yes, there is, but DL cancelling 188 flights (Flightaware's count as of 1651 EDT today; UA cancelled the same number) isn't the same as WN cancelling 800 flights one day and 1000 the next, as happened in October.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/so ... t-n1281182

Anybody have a Flightaware subscription (or other) and want to count on how many days AA or WN cancelled more than 200 flights this year?
 
AntonioMartin
Posts: 964
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:58 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sat Dec 25, 2021 4:48 pm

Why isnt Delta one of the airlines returning to India yet?
 
TW870
Posts: 1439
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:01 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sat Dec 25, 2021 4:49 pm

It looks like Delta has cancelled about 14% of its schedule right now (noon on Christmas), and United and Jetblue cancelling about 12%. Does anyone know how challenging it has been to re-accommodate passengers given what I assume is also a relatively high passenger no-show rate? I have multiple friends who have cancelled holiday flying at the very last minute after testing positive for Covid. Are last minute no-shows giving the Delta any room to maneuver?
 
Clipper73
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:21 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sat Dec 25, 2021 4:51 pm

AntonioMartin wrote:
Why isnt Delta one of the airlines returning to India yet?


Because Delta doesn't chase low yielding traffic. They cannot get the yields they want charging ME3 fares to compete.
 
x1234
Posts: 1260
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:50 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sat Dec 25, 2021 5:10 pm

Is DL resuming ICN-MNL yet? Does China still have the quarantine problem for crews making DL serve PVG via ICN? What about serving PEK/PKX via ICN also?
 
AntonioMartin
Posts: 964
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:58 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sat Dec 25, 2021 5:18 pm

Clipper73 wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
Why isnt Delta one of the airlines returning to India yet?


Because Delta doesn't chase low yielding traffic. They cannot get the yields they want charging ME3 fares to compete.

Nods
 
rjbesikof
Posts: 465
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:21 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sat Dec 25, 2021 7:16 pm

Can DL's 359 or 339 do ATL-DEL?
 
dcajet
Posts: 5343
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sat Dec 25, 2021 9:30 pm

On 3JAN22 Delta is returning to its full pre pandemic schedule @ EZE with the resumption of daily 764 service from ATL. Currently it's 4x w with A333 equipment.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 11154
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sat Dec 25, 2021 9:35 pm

DL did ATL-BOM on the 77L, but somehow today I think they would rather run an Indian route out of JFK which would make a meaningful reduction in distance against A359 capability. Everywhere from ATL wasn't a universally successful strategy.
 
tjerome
Posts: 395
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sun Dec 26, 2021 4:53 am

dcajet wrote:
On 3JAN22 Delta is returning to its full pre pandemic schedule @ EZE with the resumption of daily 764 service from ATL. Currently it's 4x w with A333 equipment.


Looks like SCL is going daily as well (just checked the full week of January 10th) on the 333. Surprised it took them this long to bring both of those daily, often going out at max payload.
 
dcajet
Posts: 5343
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: Delta Network Thread - 2021

Sun Dec 26, 2021 5:32 am

tjerome wrote:
dcajet wrote:
On 3JAN22 Delta is returning to its full pre pandemic schedule @ EZE with the resumption of daily 764 service from ATL. Currently it's 4x w with A333 equipment.


Looks like SCL is going daily as well (just checked the full week of January 10th) on the 333. Surprised it took them this long to bring both of those daily, often going out at max payload.


And more so considering that the competition has been flying their full schedule for quite some time now, at least @ EZE.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos