Indy wrote:Going to the DC area for the first time ever. Flying in/out of BWI. Anything of note I should check out at the airport while I am there?

It is a pretty nice but unfortunately unremarkable airport. Southwest concourse is the nicest.

**Moderators:** jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

Indy wrote:Going to the DC area for the first time ever. Flying in/out of BWI. Anything of note I should check out at the airport while I am there?

It is a pretty nice but unfortunately unremarkable airport. Southwest concourse is the nicest.

Maybe I missed it here.

Qatar is adding a 2nd daily for the summer to IAD

QR709 arriving at 8:45 AM

QR710 departing at 11:05 PM

Flight starting Monday July 12th will be operated using A350-900. (Interesting that the a/c will be at IAD for more than 13 hours)

-R

Qatar is adding a 2nd daily for the summer to IAD

QR709 arriving at 8:45 AM

QR710 departing at 11:05 PM

Flight starting Monday July 12th will be operated using A350-900. (Interesting that the a/c will be at IAD for more than 13 hours)

-R

N415XJ wrote:I flew through IAD this past Saturday July 3rd and was surprised to see Delta 767-300 N1201P parked at the B gates. According to FR24 it was flying LAX-JFK but got diverted to IAD, where it stayed on the ground for almost 6 hours before resuming its flight. Out of curiosity would anyone happen to know the reason for the diversion? I'd imagine a medical or passenger disturbance would have been up again much more quickly.

Issues at JFK - a water leak that forced them to switch to the secondary control tower, combined with weather. Far from the only flight that was diverted.

Indy wrote:Going to the DC area for the first time ever. Flying in/out of BWI. Anything of note I should check out at the airport while I am there?

There is an observation gallery outside of security. Mainly you can watch what's happening on the ramp between terminal B and C.

You can check out the Thomas Dixon observation area for spotting 33L arrivals or 15R departures depending on which way they are going (33L arrivals with 28 departures is the preferred configuration winds/weather allowing, 10 arrivals, 15R departures is choice #2).

If you really want a hike (or bike ride, my preferred method - but those are hard to bring on a plane) there's the BWI Trail - and 11 mile loop trail around the airport.

- Noreastshuttle
**Posts:**32**Joined:**

zuckie13 wrote:

There is an observation gallery outside of security. Mainly you can watch what's happening on the ramp between terminal B and C.

You can check out the Thomas Dixon observation area for spotting 33L arrivals or 15R departures depending on which way they are going (33L arrivals with 28 departures is the preferred configuration winds/weather allowing, 10 arrivals, 15R departures is choice #2).

If you really want a hike (or bike ride, my preferred method - but those are hard to bring on a plane) there's the BWI Trail - and 11 mile loop trail around the airport.

There are bike rentals as well at the end of international terminal next to the light rail to bike the loop. Halfway through the loop there’s an observation area with picnic tables to watch planes land on 33L. Pretty dope. Their version of Gravely Point. Not as close obviously, however still dope.

capitalflyer wrote:winstonavgeek wrote:USAirALB wrote:Say what now!

The document is somewhat confusing IMO as it doesn't give mention to Tier II or a future buildout of the concourse. Furthermore, there are several points in the document that this expansion is being driven by UA, with the document statingThe existing connection between the Concourse A regional aircraft gates and Concourse C/D requires bussing or difficult pedestrian movements with numerous level changes, resulting in a poor level of service for passengers. I can't imagine MWAA would care how UA connecting pax move throughout the airport. I'm not really sure how this project improves passenger flow as one will still have to use the "temporary" underground walkway if connecting to the new gates...I guess it just cuts out the need for a ride on the APM for UA connecting pax.

The document says the new facility will have 14 narrow body gates. I believe the Tier II C/D replacement pier called for 44 gates in total IIRC.

I guess I am confused on where this leaves the future of C/D, especially considering UA is still moving forward with the Polaris lounge.

IMO, what this means is that United sees that Concourse A's regional gates would see low utilization, due to the retirement of most of its CRJ200/E145 fleet. Also, with United's upgauging scheme with United Next, United probably needs more narrowbody gates to facilitate its operation during its banks. During the COVID-19 pandemic, United utilized two of the widebody gates in Concourse A/B for the 5/6 P.M. bank (though they might not need them anymore when they start adding more banks back). Even pre-pandemic, United started using the Z gates for a small portion of its regional operation. As for Tier II, United is probably pushing it back until 2030+ based on this and it looks like it's perfectly content with the C/D Concourse. Chances are, United doesn't want to risk pushing the CPE too high, with a full buildout of Tier II, especially since the Concourse C/D facilities are somewhat "usable." Sounds like they are kind of kicking the can down the road, but I guess this is a step in the right direction nonetheless.

Amazing. Great news. The trek between A and C/D never made any sense. This is a logical first step made possible by elimination of 50 seat fleet. This is definitely step one towards new C/D concourse. Instead of 2050 perhaps we will see a new concourse by 2040!!

The proposed concourse footprint is interesting. You would think a simple rectangle would be enough. But it is all artsy curvy. Even though it is sold in the document as a regional concourse, this curve enables its near term use by widebodies given the schematic. Narrowbodies would fit no problem between Echo and the concourse. But looks like widebodies would have tail encroaching the taxiway. Perhaps better to think of it for now as a spill over concourse rather than a true regional concourse, even if that is what it is primarily used for.

Or maybe this is the new concourse for Allegiant!

This all makes sense - it's a great way to start the incremental development of Tier 2 (rather than biting it all off (and paying for it) all at once.

Demolishing the Low A gates makes sense given the now public United Next fleet plans. I'd imagine what will replace that area will eventually be similar to the B-west extension - which, in the future, could provide more swing space for additional replacement capacity for future additions onto the new Tier 2.

I checked the MWAA environmental review website and they don't have anything posted on this... maybe I'm missing it? https://www.mwaa.com/about/environmental-information

blockski wrote:This all makes sense - it's a great way to start the incremental development of Tier 2 (rather than biting it all off (and paying for it) all at once.

Demolishing the Low A gates makes sense given the now public United Next fleet plans. I'd imagine what will replace that area will eventually be similar to the B-west extension - which, in the future, could provide more swing space for additional replacement capacity for future additions onto the new Tier 2.

I checked the MWAA environmental review website and they don't have anything posted on this... maybe I'm missing it? https://www.mwaa.com/about/environmental-information

Indeed. IIRC, I believe that the A/B concourse was constructed in a similar manner in that phases were build out incrementally. It is somewhat bizarre how the MWAA website (then again the MWAA website and its search function is trash) doesn't have information on the project, nor have any local media outlets picked up on the project. Seems strange to me given that this is a pretty big project and almost everyone in the DC area (even non frequent-flyers) knows how nasty the B/C concourse is.

I just read the document again, and I don't think they plan on extending the footprint of the high-A gates to take over the low-A space, but rather use that space as hardstand space.

What's not clear to me is if United signed off on this project, and if these gates will be CUTE or leased by United. As has been mentioned before, they are continuing to build out the new Polaris Lounge on the present C/D gates, and I can't see why they would undertake such a capital expenditure if they plan on only using the current concourse for another decade or so. Its been mentioned on other forums (I think Flyertalk is where I saw it) that the lounge is being built in a way that it can somehow be used on a C/D replacement concourse but I don't see how that's possible.

As I mentioned above, the original Tier II plans called for a facility housing 44 gates IIRC. This addition has 14, so after the opening of this concourse, the new facility will essentially be 30% complete.

If UA wanted to continue using the new lounge at the present C/D gates, I wonder if it would be possible to somehow construct a new replacement concourse over the footprint of the current C/D gates. For example, I believe the lounge is being built next to the stairs leading to the tunnel to the APM between gates C18 and C14. Once the concourse opens you could knock down gates C1-28 (keeping the new lounge intact) and then build a new 30 gate facility in its place. During construction, UA flights would use the present D gates only, the new concourse, and could overflow to the A/B/Z gates. FIS flights could use A/B for arrivals or mobile lounges if need be.

Once that section is complete, you would have 44 new gates, and could then decommission and demolish the D concourse and build a new facility over it.

Once of the biggest issues to IAD right now is that *A carriers aren't under one roof. If a UA pax is connecting from LH/OS/TP/NH/TK/AV/SN/CM/MS/SK, they have to take a mobile lounge to the IAB for processing, then re-clear security at the main terminal building, and then go all the way to A/C/D to catch their connecting UA flight.

USAirALB wrote:I just read the document again, and I don't think they plan on extending the footprint of the high-A gates to take over the low-A space, but rather use that space as hardstand space.

It's not included in the scope of this project, but it's definitely the obvious long-term plan - they'll build a new A extension eventually.

What's not clear to me is if United signed off on this project, and if these gates will be CUTE or leased by United. As has been mentioned before, they are continuing to build out the new Polaris Lounge on the present C/D gates, and I can't see why they would undertake such a capital expenditure if they plan on only using the current concourse for another decade or so. Its been mentioned on other forums (I think Flyertalk is where I saw it) that the lounge is being built in a way that it can somehow be used on a C/D replacement concourse but I don't see how that's possible.

I would presume that UA has signed off on all of this; MWAA only gets to this stage after already planning the concepts extensively with their key tenants.

As I mentioned above, the original Tier II plans called for a facility housing 44 gates IIRC. This addition has 14, so after the opening of this concourse, the new facility will essentially be 30% complete.

If UA wanted to continue using the new lounge at the present C/D gates, I wonder if it would be possible to somehow construct a new replacement concourse over the footprint of the current C/D gates. For example, I believe the lounge is being built next to the stairs leading to the tunnel to the APM between gates C18 and C14. Once the concourse opens you could knock down gates C1-28 (keeping the new lounge intact) and then build a new 30 gate facility in its place. During construction, UA flights would use the present D gates only, the new concourse, and could overflow to the A/B/Z gates. FIS flights could use A/B for arrivals or mobile lounges if need be.

Once that section is complete, you would have 44 new gates, and could then decommission and demolish the D concourse and build a new facility over it.

Once of the biggest issues to IAD right now is that *A carriers aren't under one roof. If a UA pax is connecting from LH/OS/TP/NH/TK/AV/SN/CM/MS/SK, they have to take a mobile lounge to the IAB for processing, then re-clear security at the main terminal building, and then go all the way to A/C/D to catch their connecting UA flight.

Yes, developing a plan that can be constructed incrementally is a huge benefit - the broader question is if the original scope of Tier 2 is what UA wants or not. The midfield FIS is going to be a big part of that vision. I'm not sure if they have enough space to actually get all the Star Alliance Partners under one roof, but they can certainly work to improve the connecting experience.

USAirALB wrote:Once of the biggest issues to IAD right now is that *A carriers aren't under one roof. If a UA pax is connecting from LH/OS/TP/NH/TK/AV/SN/CM/MS/SK, they have to take a mobile lounge to the IAB for processing, then re-clear security at the main terminal building, and then go all the way to A/C/D to catch their connecting UA flight.

Not entirely true, *A passengers upon arrival into IAD at Concourse A or B are segregated into DC bound and Connecting passengers; the latter of which takes a mobile lounge directly to the FIS facility in Concourse C and re-clear TSA there in order to facilitate connections with UA. Not sure if this is currently happening with COVID, but this has been the standard practice for a long time

zuckie13 wrote:

There is an observation gallery outside of security. Mainly you can watch what's happening on the ramp between terminal B and C.

You can check out the Thomas Dixon observation area for spotting 33L arrivals or 15R departures depending on which way they are going (33L arrivals with 28 departures is the preferred configuration winds/weather allowing, 10 arrivals, 15R departures is choice #2).

If you really want a hike (or bike ride, my preferred method - but those are hard to bring on a plane) there's the BWI Trail - and 11 mile loop trail around the airport.

There's also a small exterior observation deck in the connector between D and E Pier. However, I don't think it has EVER been open to the public since construction was completed in 2016. There has always been a "temporarily closed" printed sign on the doors every time I passed by.

iadadd wrote:USAirALB wrote:Once of the biggest issues to IAD right now is that *A carriers aren't under one roof. If a UA pax is connecting from LH/OS/TP/NH/TK/AV/SN/CM/MS/SK, they have to take a mobile lounge to the IAB for processing, then re-clear security at the main terminal building, and then go all the way to A/C/D to catch their connecting UA flight.

Not entirely true, *A passengers upon arrival into IAD at Concourse A or B are segregated into DC bound and Connecting passengers; the latter of which takes a mobile lounge directly to the FIS facility in Concourse C and re-clear TSA there in order to facilitate connections with UA. Not sure if this is currently happening with COVID, but this has been the standard practice for a long time

Since when?

I flew VIE-IAD in January 2020 and upon arrival in Concourse B everyone took the same mobile lounge to the IAB. There was no distinguishing lounge for terminating/connecting traffic everyone just folded into two awaiting lounges.

USAirALB wrote:iadadd wrote:USAirALB wrote:Once of the biggest issues to IAD right now is that *A carriers aren't under one roof. If a UA pax is connecting from LH/OS/TP/NH/TK/AV/SN/CM/MS/SK, they have to take a mobile lounge to the IAB for processing, then re-clear security at the main terminal building, and then go all the way to A/C/D to catch their connecting UA flight.

Not entirely true, *A passengers upon arrival into IAD at Concourse A or B are segregated into DC bound and Connecting passengers; the latter of which takes a mobile lounge directly to the FIS facility in Concourse C and re-clear TSA there in order to facilitate connections with UA. Not sure if this is currently happening with COVID, but this has been the standard practice for a long time

Since when?

I flew VIE-IAD in January 2020 and upon arrival in Concourse B everyone took the same mobile lounge to the IAB. There was no distinguishing lounge for terminating/connecting traffic everyone just folded into two awaiting lounges.

That's pretty random. I've seen that happen once, but it was a snowy day and many flights were cancelled so Midfield FIS was likely closed

iadadd wrote:

Not entirely true, *A passengers upon arrival into IAD at Concourse A or B are segregated into DC bound and Connecting passengers; the latter of which takes a mobile lounge directly to the FIS facility in Concourse C and re-clear TSA there in order to facilitate connections with UA. Not sure if this is currently happening with COVID, but this has been the standard practice for a long time

This is correct, I came into IAD in Nov 2020 on OS from VIE and while the plane pulled into A as soon as we stepped off the jetway into A there were signs pointing to either IAD bound pax or connecting on UA. I took the connecting mobile lounge to C/D where I collected my bags and flew onwards to IAH on UA. Its actually a very pleasant experience, as by the time I cleared immigration my bags were sitting on the side of the belt. By the time we arrived at the gate until I took the escalator into C after TSA was less than 30 minutes..

This is obviously going back 20+ years, but does anyone remember the focus city US used to have at IAD?

I think at its heyday they served ALB/ATL/BHM/BOS/BUF/CLT/MDW/CMH/DAY/FLL/GSO/BDL/IND/ITH/MIA/SWF/LGA/MCO/PHL/PIT/PVD/RDU/RIC/ROA/ROC/STL/SYR/TPA/SWF nonstop. I believe ATL, Floridian cities, MDW, CMH, RDU, BHM, STL were flown by MetroJet, BOS/LGA/PHL/PIT/CLT were mainline (or a mix of express and mainline) and everything else was Express.

What was the point of the operation? Outside of BHM/ATL/STL/MDW/SWF/ITH, every single route ex IAD was also flown by US out of DCA at the time. Likewise, US also served every destination from IAD at BWI, outside of ATL/BHM/STL/ITH/SWF/DAY/ROA. Did US hope to build out a hub at IAD to supplement DCA, for perhaps beyond-perimeter flights?

The Dulles operation is fascinating to me, especially given that US still had a ~150 flight/day hub up at BWI that still (at the time) featured transcon, Caribbean, and Canadian service.

I think at its heyday they served ALB/ATL/BHM/BOS/BUF/CLT/MDW/CMH/DAY/FLL/GSO/BDL/IND/ITH/MIA/SWF/LGA/MCO/PHL/PIT/PVD/RDU/RIC/ROA/ROC/STL/SYR/TPA/SWF nonstop. I believe ATL, Floridian cities, MDW, CMH, RDU, BHM, STL were flown by MetroJet, BOS/LGA/PHL/PIT/CLT were mainline (or a mix of express and mainline) and everything else was Express.

What was the point of the operation? Outside of BHM/ATL/STL/MDW/SWF/ITH, every single route ex IAD was also flown by US out of DCA at the time. Likewise, US also served every destination from IAD at BWI, outside of ATL/BHM/STL/ITH/SWF/DAY/ROA. Did US hope to build out a hub at IAD to supplement DCA, for perhaps beyond-perimeter flights?

The Dulles operation is fascinating to me, especially given that US still had a ~150 flight/day hub up at BWI that still (at the time) featured transcon, Caribbean, and Canadian service.

- capitalflyer
**Posts:**683**Joined:**

blockski wrote:USAirALB wrote:I just read the document again, and I don't think they plan on extending the footprint of the high-A gates to take over the low-A space, but rather use that space as hardstand space.

It's not included in the scope of this project, but it's definitely the obvious long-term plan - they'll build a new A extension eventually.What's not clear to me is if United signed off on this project, and if these gates will be CUTE or leased by United. As has been mentioned before, they are continuing to build out the new Polaris Lounge on the present C/D gates, and I can't see why they would undertake such a capital expenditure if they plan on only using the current concourse for another decade or so. Its been mentioned on other forums (I think Flyertalk is where I saw it) that the lounge is being built in a way that it can somehow be used on a C/D replacement concourse but I don't see how that's possible.

I would presume that UA has signed off on all of this; MWAA only gets to this stage after already planning the concepts extensively with their key tenants.As I mentioned above, the original Tier II plans called for a facility housing 44 gates IIRC. This addition has 14, so after the opening of this concourse, the new facility will essentially be 30% complete.

If UA wanted to continue using the new lounge at the present C/D gates, I wonder if it would be possible to somehow construct a new replacement concourse over the footprint of the current C/D gates. For example, I believe the lounge is being built next to the stairs leading to the tunnel to the APM between gates C18 and C14. Once the concourse opens you could knock down gates C1-28 (keeping the new lounge intact) and then build a new 30 gate facility in its place. During construction, UA flights would use the present D gates only, the new concourse, and could overflow to the A/B/Z gates. FIS flights could use A/B for arrivals or mobile lounges if need be.

Once that section is complete, you would have 44 new gates, and could then decommission and demolish the D concourse and build a new facility over it.

Once of the biggest issues to IAD right now is that *A carriers aren't under one roof. If a UA pax is connecting from LH/OS/TP/NH/TK/AV/SN/CM/MS/SK, they have to take a mobile lounge to the IAB for processing, then re-clear security at the main terminal building, and then go all the way to A/C/D to catch their connecting UA flight.

Yes, developing a plan that can be constructed incrementally is a huge benefit - the broader question is if the original scope of Tier 2 is what UA wants or not. The midfield FIS is going to be a big part of that vision. I'm not sure if they have enough space to actually get all the Star Alliance Partners under one roof, but they can certainly work to improve the connecting experience.

As mentioned, the plan will leave the demolished A concourse empty for RON/hard stand, and the new concourse will be built over the Aerotrain Station for C/D. This indeed lines up with UA's operational needs with elimination of 50 seat jets. The need more jetways for larger jets. This doesn't conflict with finishing Polaris build out as with this new "stinger/satellite" regional concourse they could continue in the pole barn indefinitely. No one is ready to commit capital/debt service to new C/D yet, but this will help continue to make the pole barn functional. I imagine that this new concourse will be nicer than the mainline concourse!! Its design will be important as they will want it to make sure any new full C/D concourse matches the then existing architecture of the new regional concourse. So it might be more fancy that a typical satellite/regional concourse might be otherwise.

capitalflyer wrote:As mentioned, the plan will leave the demolished A concourse empty for RON/hard stand, and the new concourse will be built over the Aerotrain Station for C/D. This indeed lines up with UA's operational needs with elimination of 50 seat jets. The need more jetways for larger jets. This doesn't conflict with finishing Polaris build out as with this new "stinger/satellite" regional concourse they could continue in the pole barn indefinitely. No one is ready to commit capital/debt service to new C/D yet, but this will help continue to make the pole barn functional. I imagine that this new concourse will be nicer than the mainline concourse!! Its design will be important as they will want it to make sure any new full C/D concourse matches the then existing architecture of the new regional concourse. So it might be more fancy that a typical satellite/regional concourse might be otherwise.

The new concourse isn't a regional concourse. It'll be a full fledged facility capable of handling both widebody and narrowbody aircraft. It'll likely handle both mainline and regional jets, the same way C/D does now. IIRC all CR7s and E-Jets use C/D/Z currently, leaving the A Gates for CR2s and E145s.

By the time the new concourse opens, most CR2s/E145s will have likely been retired from serving IAD and any remaining will just have to be accommodated elsewhere.

I am excited to see the rendering of the facility. The original rendering of the C/D replacement concourse called for a pier with floor to ceiling windows and an extremely high sloped ceiling (view the renderings here: https://www.cannonarchitecturestudio.co ... thcjss69an)...for some reason it reminds me of PEK or PVG. It looks magnificent, although given how old these renderings are, and considering the new concourse has a curved design to accommodate widebody aircraft, I doubt it'll look anything like the renderings above.

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but UA added back a third bank at IAD. The late night bank (~10pm) has been up and running this month. The only bank yet to be restored is the early morning 8 am bank, which I could easily see coming back in September/October. As for UA's plans of adding additional banks to IAD, I think it's plausible that a fifth bank begins to emerge next spring.

Here were the load factors, number of passengers, and number of seats for WN flights out of DCA in April 2021:

ATL-DCA - 10180 passengers, 16876 seats, 60.32% load factor

AUS-DCA - 5633 passengers, 10212 seats, 55.16% load factor

BNA-DCA - 14708 passengers, 24517 seats, 59.99% load factor

DAL-DCA - 9827 passengers, 17273 seats, 56.89% load factor

DCA-FLL - 6114 passengers, 9502 seats, 64.34% load factor

DCA-HOU - 6977 passengers, 11647 seats, 59.90% load factor

DCA-JAX - 4371 passengers, 8612 seats, 50.75% load factor

DCA-MCI - 2286 passengers, 3146 seats, 72.66% load factor

DCA-MCO - 15912 passengers, 18308 seats, 86.91% load factor

DCA-MDW - 18054 passengers, 29462 seats, 61.28% load factor

DCA-MKE - 4767 passengers, 8612 seats, 55.35% load factor

DCA-MSY - 2355 passengers, 3178 seats, 74.10% load factor

DCA-OMA - 4573 passengers, 8580 seats, 53.30% load factor

DCA-PBI - 1682 passengers, 2892 seats, 58.16% load factor

DCA-PVD - 2382 passengers, 3146 seats, 75.72% load factor

DCA-RSW - 2137 passengers, 3116 seats, 68.58% load factor

DCA-STL - 6790 passengers, 8580 seats, 79.14% load factor

DCA-TPA - 8487 passengers, 12268 seats, 69.18% load factor

ATL-DCA - 10180 passengers, 16876 seats, 60.32% load factor

AUS-DCA - 5633 passengers, 10212 seats, 55.16% load factor

BNA-DCA - 14708 passengers, 24517 seats, 59.99% load factor

DAL-DCA - 9827 passengers, 17273 seats, 56.89% load factor

DCA-FLL - 6114 passengers, 9502 seats, 64.34% load factor

DCA-HOU - 6977 passengers, 11647 seats, 59.90% load factor

DCA-JAX - 4371 passengers, 8612 seats, 50.75% load factor

DCA-MCI - 2286 passengers, 3146 seats, 72.66% load factor

DCA-MCO - 15912 passengers, 18308 seats, 86.91% load factor

DCA-MDW - 18054 passengers, 29462 seats, 61.28% load factor

DCA-MKE - 4767 passengers, 8612 seats, 55.35% load factor

DCA-MSY - 2355 passengers, 3178 seats, 74.10% load factor

DCA-OMA - 4573 passengers, 8580 seats, 53.30% load factor

DCA-PBI - 1682 passengers, 2892 seats, 58.16% load factor

DCA-PVD - 2382 passengers, 3146 seats, 75.72% load factor

DCA-RSW - 2137 passengers, 3116 seats, 68.58% load factor

DCA-STL - 6790 passengers, 8580 seats, 79.14% load factor

DCA-TPA - 8487 passengers, 12268 seats, 69.18% load factor

Here were the load factors, number of passengers, and number of seats for WN flights out of IAD in April 2021:

ATL-IAD - 5163 passengers, 12298 seats, 41.98% load factor

DEN-IAD - 7138 passengers, 9378 seats, 76.11% load factor

IAD-MDW - 8613 passengers, 22632 seats, 38.06% load factor

ATL-IAD - 5163 passengers, 12298 seats, 41.98% load factor

DEN-IAD - 7138 passengers, 9378 seats, 76.11% load factor

IAD-MDW - 8613 passengers, 22632 seats, 38.06% load factor

jplatts wrote:Here were the load factors, number of passengers, and number of seats for WN flights out of IAD in April 2021:

ATL-IAD - 5163 passengers, 12298 seats, 41.98% load factor

DEN-IAD - 7138 passengers, 9378 seats, 76.11% load factor

IAD-MDW - 8613 passengers, 22632 seats, 38.06% load factor

Anyone have any idea if WN is planning to start back up IAD-MCO again? Seeing that’s MCO is one of WNs best preforming route from DCA I think it would also do well from IAD.

KMCOFlyer wrote:Anyone have any idea if WN is planning to start back up IAD-MCO again? Seeing that’s MCO is one of WNs best preforming route from DCA I think it would also do well from IAD.

WN currently operates Saturday-only nonstop service between IAD and MCO.

WN was also getting an average load factor of 87.44% on IAD-MCO nonstop service in 2019.

jplatts wrote:Here were the load factors, number of passengers, and number of seats for WN flights out of IAD in April 2021:

ATL-IAD - 5163 passengers, 12298 seats, 41.98% load factor

DEN-IAD - 7138 passengers, 9378 seats, 76.11% load factor

IAD-MDW - 8613 passengers, 22632 seats, 38.06% load factor

Impressive that DEN is that strong, considering the amount of flights UA has on the route, including WBs.

DCA350 wrote:jplatts wrote:

ATL-IAD - 5163 passengers, 12298 seats, 41.98% load factor

DEN-IAD - 7138 passengers, 9378 seats, 76.11% load factor

IAD-MDW - 8613 passengers, 22632 seats, 38.06% load factor

Impressive that DEN is that strong, considering the amount of flights UA has on the route, including WBs.

DEN is also outside of the DCA perimeter, whereas ATL and MDW are within the DCA perimeter. WN also doesn't currently hold any beyond-perimeter slot exemptions that could be used to serve DEN nonstop from DCA.

WN adding IAD-PHX nonstop service is a possibility with PHX being outside of the DCA perimeter along with the connections that WN would be offering to Vegas and Southern California through PHX. WN also already has significant FF bases in both the WAS and PHX markets to support IAD-PHX nonstop service on WN.

UA is also currently the only airline serving PHX nonstop from IAD, even though HP and US had previously served PHX nonstop from IAD.

Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN flights out of BWI in April 2021:

ABQ-BWI - 1077 passengers, 1304 seats, 82.59% load factor

ALB-BWI - 31205 passengers, 35202 seats, 88.65% load factor

ATL-BWI - 30828 passengers, 35265 seats, 87.42% load factor

AUS-BWI - 13002 passengers, 17360 seats, 74.90% load factor

BDL-BWI - 27599 passengers, 33740 seats, 81.80% load factor

BNA-BWI - 23978 passengers, 33237 seats, 72.14% load factor

BOS-BWI - 32351 passengers, 40717 seats, 79.45% load factor

BUF-BWI - 30836 passengers, 35523 seats, 86.81% load factor

BWI-CHS - 18055 passengers, 20662 seats, 87.38% load factor

BWI-CLE - 14929 passengers, 18216 seats, 81.96% load factor

BWI-CLT - 13972 passengers, 17804 seats, 78.48% load factor

BWI-CMH - 14916 passengers, 19383 seats, 76.95% load factor

BWI-CVG - 13169 passengers, 19582 seats, 67.25% load factor

BWI-DAL - 29215 passengers, 34131 seats, 85.60% load factor

BWI-DEN - 29589 passengers, 37368 seats, 79.18% load factor

BWI-DTW - 13585 passengers, 18207 seats, 74.61% load factor

BWI-ECP - 1360 passengers, 1573 seats, 86.46% load factor

BWI-FLL - 45518 passengers, 57275 seats, 79.47% load factor

BWI-GRR - 4115 passengers, 8601 seats, 47.84% load factor

BWI-GSP - 5966 passengers, 8900 seats, 67.03% load factor

BWI-HOU - 22191 passengers, 25562 seats, 86.81% load factor

BWI-IND - 15577 passengers, 19827 seats, 78.56% load factor

BWI-ISP - 19948 passengers, 24111 seats, 82.73% load factor

BWI-JAX - 22104 passengers, 25163 seats, 87.84% load factor

BWI-LAS - 24962 passengers, 29947 seats, 83.35% load factor

BWI-LAX - 10016 passengers, 10754 seats, 93.14% load factor

BWI-MCI - 11795 passengers, 15947 seats, 73.96% load factor

BWI-MCO - 61996 passengers, 73246 seats, 84.64% load factor

BWI-MDW - 27540 passengers, 41964 seats, 65.63% load factor

BWI-MEM - 452 passengers, 811 seats, 55.73% load factor

BWI-MHT - 26913 passengers, 35412 seats, 76.00% load factor

BWI-MIA - 27582 passengers, 33351 seats, 82.70% load factor

BWI-MKE - 11543 passengers, 17213 seats, 67.06% load factor

BWI-MSP - 376 passengers, 572 seats, 65.73% load factor

BWI-MSY - 11930 passengers, 14711 seats, 81.10% load factor

BWI-OAK - 3447 passengers, 3818 seats, 90.28% load factor

BWI-ORD - 9828 passengers, 27456 seats, 35.80% load factor

BWI-ORF - 22687 passengers, 27007 seats, 84.00% load factor

BWI-PBI - 24578 passengers, 28656 seats, 85.77% load factor

BWI-PHX - 20644 passengers, 24161 seats, 85.44% load factor

BWI-PIT - 15628 passengers, 19560 seats, 79.90% load factor

BWI-PNS - 330 passengers, 572 seats, 57.69% load factor

BWI-PVD - 32373 passengers, 40790 seats, 79.37% load factor

BWI-PWM - 19520 passengers, 28332 seats, 68.90% load factor

BWI-RDU - 22945 passengers, 26868 seats, 85.40% load factor

BWI-ROC - 17076 passengers, 17911 seats, 95.34% load factor

BWI-RSW - 34873 passengers, 42693 seats, 81.68% load factor

BWI-SAN - 10798 passengers, 12530 seats, 86.18% load factor

BWI-SAT - 13436 passengers, 17633 seats, 76.20% load factor

BWI-SAV - 13316 passengers, 17160 seats, 77.60% load factor

BWI-SDF - 10628 passengers, 15740 seats, 67.52% load factor

BWI-SJU - 17476 passengers, 20864 seats, 83.76% load factor

BWI-SLC - 7481 passengers, 9252 seats, 80.86% load factor

BWI-SRQ - 21703 passengers, 25947 seats, 83.64% load factor

BWI-STL - 19659 passengers, 24384 seats, 80.62% load factor

BWI-TPA - 52513 passengers, 63445 seats, 82.77% load factor

ABQ-BWI - 1077 passengers, 1304 seats, 82.59% load factor

ALB-BWI - 31205 passengers, 35202 seats, 88.65% load factor

ATL-BWI - 30828 passengers, 35265 seats, 87.42% load factor

AUS-BWI - 13002 passengers, 17360 seats, 74.90% load factor

BDL-BWI - 27599 passengers, 33740 seats, 81.80% load factor

BNA-BWI - 23978 passengers, 33237 seats, 72.14% load factor

BOS-BWI - 32351 passengers, 40717 seats, 79.45% load factor

BUF-BWI - 30836 passengers, 35523 seats, 86.81% load factor

BWI-CHS - 18055 passengers, 20662 seats, 87.38% load factor

BWI-CLE - 14929 passengers, 18216 seats, 81.96% load factor

BWI-CLT - 13972 passengers, 17804 seats, 78.48% load factor

BWI-CMH - 14916 passengers, 19383 seats, 76.95% load factor

BWI-CVG - 13169 passengers, 19582 seats, 67.25% load factor

BWI-DAL - 29215 passengers, 34131 seats, 85.60% load factor

BWI-DEN - 29589 passengers, 37368 seats, 79.18% load factor

BWI-DTW - 13585 passengers, 18207 seats, 74.61% load factor

BWI-ECP - 1360 passengers, 1573 seats, 86.46% load factor

BWI-FLL - 45518 passengers, 57275 seats, 79.47% load factor

BWI-GRR - 4115 passengers, 8601 seats, 47.84% load factor

BWI-GSP - 5966 passengers, 8900 seats, 67.03% load factor

BWI-HOU - 22191 passengers, 25562 seats, 86.81% load factor

BWI-IND - 15577 passengers, 19827 seats, 78.56% load factor

BWI-ISP - 19948 passengers, 24111 seats, 82.73% load factor

BWI-JAX - 22104 passengers, 25163 seats, 87.84% load factor

BWI-LAS - 24962 passengers, 29947 seats, 83.35% load factor

BWI-LAX - 10016 passengers, 10754 seats, 93.14% load factor

BWI-MCI - 11795 passengers, 15947 seats, 73.96% load factor

BWI-MCO - 61996 passengers, 73246 seats, 84.64% load factor

BWI-MDW - 27540 passengers, 41964 seats, 65.63% load factor

BWI-MEM - 452 passengers, 811 seats, 55.73% load factor

BWI-MHT - 26913 passengers, 35412 seats, 76.00% load factor

BWI-MIA - 27582 passengers, 33351 seats, 82.70% load factor

BWI-MKE - 11543 passengers, 17213 seats, 67.06% load factor

BWI-MSP - 376 passengers, 572 seats, 65.73% load factor

BWI-MSY - 11930 passengers, 14711 seats, 81.10% load factor

BWI-OAK - 3447 passengers, 3818 seats, 90.28% load factor

BWI-ORD - 9828 passengers, 27456 seats, 35.80% load factor

BWI-ORF - 22687 passengers, 27007 seats, 84.00% load factor

BWI-PBI - 24578 passengers, 28656 seats, 85.77% load factor

BWI-PHX - 20644 passengers, 24161 seats, 85.44% load factor

BWI-PIT - 15628 passengers, 19560 seats, 79.90% load factor

BWI-PNS - 330 passengers, 572 seats, 57.69% load factor

BWI-PVD - 32373 passengers, 40790 seats, 79.37% load factor

BWI-PWM - 19520 passengers, 28332 seats, 68.90% load factor

BWI-RDU - 22945 passengers, 26868 seats, 85.40% load factor

BWI-ROC - 17076 passengers, 17911 seats, 95.34% load factor

BWI-RSW - 34873 passengers, 42693 seats, 81.68% load factor

BWI-SAN - 10798 passengers, 12530 seats, 86.18% load factor

BWI-SAT - 13436 passengers, 17633 seats, 76.20% load factor

BWI-SAV - 13316 passengers, 17160 seats, 77.60% load factor

BWI-SDF - 10628 passengers, 15740 seats, 67.52% load factor

BWI-SJU - 17476 passengers, 20864 seats, 83.76% load factor

BWI-SLC - 7481 passengers, 9252 seats, 80.86% load factor

BWI-SRQ - 21703 passengers, 25947 seats, 83.64% load factor

BWI-STL - 19659 passengers, 24384 seats, 80.62% load factor

BWI-TPA - 52513 passengers, 63445 seats, 82.77% load factor

jplatts wrote:Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN flights out of BWI in April 2021:

ABQ-BWI - 1077 passengers, 1304 seats, 82.59% load factor

ALB-BWI - 31205 passengers, 35202 seats, 88.65% load factor

ATL-BWI - 30828 passengers, 35265 seats, 87.42% load factor

AUS-BWI - 13002 passengers, 17360 seats, 74.90% load factor

BDL-BWI - 27599 passengers, 33740 seats, 81.80% load factor

BNA-BWI - 23978 passengers, 33237 seats, 72.14% load factor

BOS-BWI - 32351 passengers, 40717 seats, 79.45% load factor

BUF-BWI - 30836 passengers, 35523 seats, 86.81% load factor

BWI-CHS - 18055 passengers, 20662 seats, 87.38% load factor

BWI-CLE - 14929 passengers, 18216 seats, 81.96% load factor

BWI-CLT - 13972 passengers, 17804 seats, 78.48% load factor

BWI-CMH - 14916 passengers, 19383 seats, 76.95% load factor

BWI-CVG - 13169 passengers, 19582 seats, 67.25% load factor

BWI-DAL - 29215 passengers, 34131 seats, 85.60% load factor

BWI-DEN - 29589 passengers, 37368 seats, 79.18% load factor

BWI-DTW - 13585 passengers, 18207 seats, 74.61% load factor

BWI-ECP - 1360 passengers, 1573 seats, 86.46% load factor

BWI-FLL - 45518 passengers, 57275 seats, 79.47% load factor

BWI-GRR - 4115 passengers, 8601 seats, 47.84% load factor

BWI-GSP - 5966 passengers, 8900 seats, 67.03% load factor

BWI-HOU - 22191 passengers, 25562 seats, 86.81% load factor

BWI-IND - 15577 passengers, 19827 seats, 78.56% load factor

BWI-ISP - 19948 passengers, 24111 seats, 82.73% load factor

BWI-JAX - 22104 passengers, 25163 seats, 87.84% load factor

BWI-LAS - 24962 passengers, 29947 seats, 83.35% load factor

BWI-LAX - 10016 passengers, 10754 seats, 93.14% load factor

BWI-MCI - 11795 passengers, 15947 seats, 73.96% load factor

BWI-MCO - 61996 passengers, 73246 seats, 84.64% load factor

BWI-MDW - 27540 passengers, 41964 seats, 65.63% load factor

BWI-MEM - 452 passengers, 811 seats, 55.73% load factor

BWI-MHT - 26913 passengers, 35412 seats, 76.00% load factor

BWI-MIA - 27582 passengers, 33351 seats, 82.70% load factor

BWI-MKE - 11543 passengers, 17213 seats, 67.06% load factor

BWI-MSP - 376 passengers, 572 seats, 65.73% load factor

BWI-MSY - 11930 passengers, 14711 seats, 81.10% load factor

BWI-OAK - 3447 passengers, 3818 seats, 90.28% load factor

BWI-ORD - 9828 passengers, 27456 seats, 35.80% load factor

BWI-ORF - 22687 passengers, 27007 seats, 84.00% load factor

BWI-PBI - 24578 passengers, 28656 seats, 85.77% load factor

BWI-PHX - 20644 passengers, 24161 seats, 85.44% load factor

BWI-PIT - 15628 passengers, 19560 seats, 79.90% load factor

BWI-PNS - 330 passengers, 572 seats, 57.69% load factor

BWI-PVD - 32373 passengers, 40790 seats, 79.37% load factor

BWI-PWM - 19520 passengers, 28332 seats, 68.90% load factor

BWI-RDU - 22945 passengers, 26868 seats, 85.40% load factor

BWI-ROC - 17076 passengers, 17911 seats, 95.34% load factor

BWI-RSW - 34873 passengers, 42693 seats, 81.68% load factor

BWI-SAN - 10798 passengers, 12530 seats, 86.18% load factor

BWI-SAT - 13436 passengers, 17633 seats, 76.20% load factor

BWI-SAV - 13316 passengers, 17160 seats, 77.60% load factor

BWI-SDF - 10628 passengers, 15740 seats, 67.52% load factor

BWI-SJU - 17476 passengers, 20864 seats, 83.76% load factor

BWI-SLC - 7481 passengers, 9252 seats, 80.86% load factor

BWI-SRQ - 21703 passengers, 25947 seats, 83.64% load factor

BWI-STL - 19659 passengers, 24384 seats, 80.62% load factor

BWI-TPA - 52513 passengers, 63445 seats, 82.77% load factor

So ORD is having a rough start. Is this uniform across all ORD routes?

ahj2000 wrote:So ORD is having a rough start. Is this uniform across all ORD routes?

WN was actually getting load factors of over 85% on ORD-PHX nonstop service in April 2021.

Might have missed this somewhere in the news, but did Sun Air Express pull out of Baltimore?

USAirALB wrote:This is obviously going back 20+ years, but does anyone remember the focus city US used to have at IAD?

I think at its heyday they served ALB/ATL/BHM/BOS/BUF/CLT/MDW/CMH/DAY/FLL/GSO/BDL/IND/ITH/MIA/SWF/LGA/MCO/PHL/PIT/PVD/RDU/RIC/ROA/ROC/STL/SYR/TPA/SWF nonstop. I believe ATL, Floridian cities, MDW, CMH, RDU, BHM, STL were flown by MetroJet, BOS/LGA/PHL/PIT/CLT were mainline (or a mix of express and mainline) and everything else was Express.

What was the point of the operation? Outside of BHM/ATL/STL/MDW/SWF/ITH, every single route ex IAD was also flown by US out of DCA at the time. Likewise, US also served every destination from IAD at BWI, outside of ATL/BHM/STL/ITH/SWF/DAY/ROA. Did US hope to build out a hub at IAD to supplement DCA, for perhaps beyond-perimeter flights?

The Dulles operation is fascinating to me, especially given that US still had a ~150 flight/day hub up at BWI that still (at the time) featured transcon, Caribbean, and Canadian service.

I remember flying CRW-DCA-BWI in 1991. I was trying to explain to my son yesterday how that was logical. Didn’t get very far.

jplatts wrote:DCA350 wrote:

ATL-IAD - 5163 passengers, 12298 seats, 41.98% load factor

DEN-IAD - 7138 passengers, 9378 seats, 76.11% load factor

IAD-MDW - 8613 passengers, 22632 seats, 38.06% load factor

Impressive that DEN is that strong, considering the amount of flights UA has on the route, including WBs.

DEN is also outside of the DCA perimeter, whereas ATL and MDW are within the DCA perimeter. WN also doesn't currently hold any beyond-perimeter slot exemptions that could be used to serve DEN nonstop from DCA.

WN adding IAD-PHX nonstop service is a possibility with PHX being outside of the DCA perimeter along with the connections that WN would be offering to Vegas and Southern California through PHX. WN also already has significant FF bases in both the WAS and PHX markets to support IAD-PHX nonstop service on WN.

UA is also currently the only airline serving PHX nonstop from IAD, even though HP and US had previously served PHX nonstop from IAD.

UA had regular 757 DCA to DEN at some time before Covid

JHCRJ700 wrote:Might have missed this somewhere in the news, but did Sun Air Express pull out of Baltimore?

If by Sun Air you mean its current owner Southern Air Express, then yes, it left BWI for Dulles in June and launched an interline agreement with United.

It’s to bad, I flew them from BWI HGR PIT and the flights were super fun and cheaper than the Southwest nonstop.

I may have missed this information - but does anyone know when BA will resume service to BWI? It seems to keep getting pushed back. Thanks!

- BWIAirport
**Posts:**1082**Joined:**

Tropixx wrote:I may have missed this information - but does anyone know when BA will resume service to BWI? It seems to keep getting pushed back. Thanks!

I think I've seen Q2 2022. That's also when FI and DE are set to resume.

I know UA said that IAD would also be getting some CRJ-550 service, but what cities are they serving from IAD with the CRJ-550? I know STL and CMH are getting 550 service but I'm not sure about any others.

Also based on what we're seeing with the SCASD, I'd imagine IAD will be getting a lot of new CRJ-200 routes if everything works out. BGM, HVN, MLB, MOB, PHF, HTS, and IPT all mentioned IAD as a market they want on UA. I'd imagine all of these would be flown on CRJ-200, but I'd also think UA may need to do some upgauging of some other 50 seat routes if they want to have space to operate it. I'd imagine a lot, if not all of these flights would operate at the afternoon bank, which is already extremely tight on space as it is.

Also based on what we're seeing with the SCASD, I'd imagine IAD will be getting a lot of new CRJ-200 routes if everything works out. BGM, HVN, MLB, MOB, PHF, HTS, and IPT all mentioned IAD as a market they want on UA. I'd imagine all of these would be flown on CRJ-200, but I'd also think UA may need to do some upgauging of some other 50 seat routes if they want to have space to operate it. I'd imagine a lot, if not all of these flights would operate at the afternoon bank, which is already extremely tight on space as it is.

N292UX wrote:I know UA said that IAD would also be getting some CRJ-550 service, but what cities are they serving from IAD with the CRJ-550? I know STL and CMH are getting 550 service but I'm not sure about any others.

Also based on what we're seeing with the SCASD, I'd imagine IAD will be getting a lot of new CRJ-200 routes if everything works out. BGM, HVN, MLB, MOB, PHF, HTS, and IPT all mentioned IAD as a market they want on UA. I'd imagine all of these would be flown on CRJ-200, but I'd also think UA may need to do some upgauging of some other 50 seat routes if they want to have space to operate it. I'd imagine a lot, if not all of these flights would operate at the afternoon bank, which is already extremely tight on space as it is.

MOB, BGM, IPT, PHF, and HTS were selected for SCASD; HVN and MLB were not: https://www.transportation.gov/sites/do ... 1-7-13.pdf

There's a thread here too: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1454827

I'm still irrationally holding out hope for eventual HVN-IAD service on Avelo.

N292UX wrote:Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but UA added back a third bank at IAD. The late night bank (~10pm) has been up and running this month. The only bank yet to be restored is the early morning 8 am bank, which I could easily see coming back in September/October. As for UA's plans of adding additional banks to IAD, I think it's plausible that a fifth bank begins to emerge next spring.

The 4th bank is returning on Labor day. So that returns the timing of all 4 banks to the pre pandemic schedule. I would think a 5th bank wouldn't arrive before business travel returns to a more profitable level.

bloxomo wrote:N292UX wrote:I know UA said that IAD would also be getting some CRJ-550 service, but what cities are they serving from IAD with the CRJ-550? I know STL and CMH are getting 550 service but I'm not sure about any others.

Also based on what we're seeing with the SCASD, I'd imagine IAD will be getting a lot of new CRJ-200 routes if everything works out. BGM, HVN, MLB, MOB, PHF, HTS, and IPT all mentioned IAD as a market they want on UA. I'd imagine all of these would be flown on CRJ-200, but I'd also think UA may need to do some upgauging of some other 50 seat routes if they want to have space to operate it. I'd imagine a lot, if not all of these flights would operate at the afternoon bank, which is already extremely tight on space as it is.

MOB, BGM, IPT, PHF, and HTS were selected for SCASD; HVN and MLB were not: https://www.transportation.gov/sites/do ... 1-7-13.pdf

There's a thread here too: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1454827

I'm still irrationally holding out hope for eventual HVN-IAD service on Avelo.

Not sure why Avelo would run HVN-IAD as a P2P when Amtrak covers the NE corridor well from New Haven. It would make more sense for UA to start service again to HVN with flights to IAD and ORD.

uconn99 wrote:bloxomo wrote:N292UX wrote:

Also based on what we're seeing with the SCASD, I'd imagine IAD will be getting a lot of new CRJ-200 routes if everything works out. BGM, HVN, MLB, MOB, PHF, HTS, and IPT all mentioned IAD as a market they want on UA. I'd imagine all of these would be flown on CRJ-200, but I'd also think UA may need to do some upgauging of some other 50 seat routes if they want to have space to operate it. I'd imagine a lot, if not all of these flights would operate at the afternoon bank, which is already extremely tight on space as it is.

MOB, BGM, IPT, PHF, and HTS were selected for SCASD; HVN and MLB were not: https://www.transportation.gov/sites/do ... 1-7-13.pdf

There's a thread here too: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1454827

I'm still irrationally holding out hope for eventual HVN-IAD service on Avelo.

Not sure why Avelo would run HVN-IAD as a P2P when Amtrak covers the NE corridor well from New Haven. It would make more sense for UA to start service again to HVN with flights to IAD and ORD.

I would certainly be satisfied with UA HVN-IAD, and New Haven is around the point where the balance starts to shift from Amtrak back to air travel for some DC-bound travellers (but maybe I'm crazy for driving up to BDL for flights to the DC area). And the CEO of Avelo has mentioned "maybe DC" as a destination from HVN.

bloxomo wrote:uconn99 wrote:bloxomo wrote:

MOB, BGM, IPT, PHF, and HTS were selected for SCASD; HVN and MLB were not: https://www.transportation.gov/sites/do ... 1-7-13.pdf

There's a thread here too: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1454827

I'm still irrationally holding out hope for eventual HVN-IAD service on Avelo.

Not sure why Avelo would run HVN-IAD as a P2P when Amtrak covers the NE corridor well from New Haven. It would make more sense for UA to start service again to HVN with flights to IAD and ORD.

I would certainly be satisfied with UA HVN-IAD, and New Haven is around the point where the balance starts to shift from Amtrak back to air travel for some DC-bound travellers (but maybe I'm crazy for driving up to BDL for flights to the DC area). And the CEO of Avelo has mentioned "maybe DC" as a destination from HVN.

I feel you in regards to traveling by plane between CT and DC as I fly IAD/DCA-BDL multiple times per year and seldom take the train mainly because my destination is east of Hartford and travel time from BDL to my family is about 15-30 minutes quicker than driving to New Haven to catch a train. I feel people in the New Haven area are better positioned to take the train as it is just about as fast when you figure in airport security, 30-45 minutes waiting for boarding, another hour flight plus if the destination is DC figure another 45 minutes to an hour drive time into the district. HVN-DCA would be a much better option but no way is Avelo going into DCA. Maybe AA would try 1-2x daily into DCA if they can find the slots and don't end of canceling service to HVN as it appears there is nothing on the schedule past 9/30 for HVN-PHL.

I'm not sure if this has been discussed before. I'm currently flying through BWI and walking through C concourse and noticed the AA above wing employees were wearing an odd/outdated uniform tops with an early 1990s look. The men were wearing a white long sleeve shirts with red vertical stripes, along with a tie. This made me think, does AA outsource its above-wing employees in BWI or is this the new type of uniform for their mainline employees?

Based on current schedules, the CRJ-550 is going to become much more common at IAD in November. UA currently has the 550 scheduled on IAD-STL/CVG/PWM/RIC/SYR/YYZ/ROC/LGA/GRR. STL/PWM/GRR will be routes strictly operated by the 550.

Other interesting notes based on current/future schedules:

-UA is currently operating 3x IAD-LGA using only the A319, which is pretty rare. In November however, UA will run IAD-LGA 9x daily using a mix of E175s and CRJ-550s.

-IAD-PHL will see mainline service in November with one of the 4 flights being operated by a 737

-IAD-ORF is seeing 2 daily mainline flights on 737s

-One of the MCO flights will continue to be a 753 for the foreseeable future

-DL will be operating exclusively A320s on IAD-ATL beginning in September

-AA will be operating less than 10 daily departures from IAD for the foreseeable future. 5x CLT, 2x DFW, 2x AUS

-F9's IAD operations consists of 3x weekly service from MCO and that's it

-TAP's IAD-LIS service is operating daily this summer, don't think that's happened in the past

-UA is back up to double daily on IAD-FRA/LHR

-UA is operating 787-10s to FRA/BRU

-SAS is operating the A350 into IAD instead of the A330 beginning in September

Other interesting notes based on current/future schedules:

-UA is currently operating 3x IAD-LGA using only the A319, which is pretty rare. In November however, UA will run IAD-LGA 9x daily using a mix of E175s and CRJ-550s.

-IAD-PHL will see mainline service in November with one of the 4 flights being operated by a 737

-IAD-ORF is seeing 2 daily mainline flights on 737s

-One of the MCO flights will continue to be a 753 for the foreseeable future

-DL will be operating exclusively A320s on IAD-ATL beginning in September

-AA will be operating less than 10 daily departures from IAD for the foreseeable future. 5x CLT, 2x DFW, 2x AUS

-F9's IAD operations consists of 3x weekly service from MCO and that's it

-TAP's IAD-LIS service is operating daily this summer, don't think that's happened in the past

-UA is back up to double daily on IAD-FRA/LHR

-UA is operating 787-10s to FRA/BRU

-SAS is operating the A350 into IAD instead of the A330 beginning in September

Here are the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN flights out of BWI in May 2021:

ABQ-BWI - 1633 passengers, 1750 seats, 93.31% load factor

ALB-BWI - 36360 passengers, 38979 seats, 93.28% load factor

ATL-BWI - 31288 passengers, 34915 seats, 89.61% load factor

AUS-BWI - 15386 passengers, 17326 seats, 88.80% load factor

BDL-BWI - 34862 passengers, 40676 seats, 85.71% load factor

BNA-BWI - 31174 passengers, 38865 seats, 80.21% load factor

BOS-BWI - 40584 passengers, 45098 seats, 89.99% load factor

BUF-BWI - 33527 passengers, 37661 seats, 89.02% load factor

BWI-CHS - 21646 passengers, 24542 seats, 88.20% load factor

BWI-CLE - 17847 passengers, 20691 seats, 86.25% load factor

BWI-CLT - 15099 passengers, 17885 seats, 84.42% load factor

BWI-CMH - 17098 passengers, 19569 seats, 87.37% load factor

BWI-CVG - 17226 passengers, 20899 seats, 82.42% load factor

BWI-DAL - 32639 passengers, 36602 seats, 89.17% load factor

BWI-DEN - 39144 passengers, 43877 seats, 89.21% load factor

BWI-DTW - 13954 passengers, 19556 seats, 71.35% load factor

BWI-ECP - 3853 passengers, 6330 seats, 60.87% load factor

BWI-FLL - 46535 passengers, 62679 seats, 74.24% load factor

BWI-GRR - 5257 passengers, 8027 seats, 65.49% load factor

BWI-GSP - 7107 passengers, 9344 seats, 76.06% load factor

BWI-HOU - 24542 passengers, 27045 seats, 90.75% load factor

BWI-IND - 16592 passengers, 19859 seats, 83.55% load factor

BWI-ISP - 23060 passengers, 25987 seats, 88.74% load factor

BWI-JAX - 23179 passengers, 25539 seats, 90.76% load factor

BWI-LAS - 32258 passengers, 35844 seats, 90.00% load factor

BWI-LAX - 10160 passengers, 10690 seats, 95.04% load factor

BWI-MCI - 15184 passengers, 17025 seats, 89.19% load factor

BWI-MCO - 69491 passengers, 83051 seats, 83.67% load factor

BWI-MDW - 37198 passengers, 46595 seats, 79.83% load factor

BWI-MEM - 1327 passengers, 1590 seats, 83.46% load factor

BWI-MHT - 30255 passengers, 34894 seats, 86.71% load factor

BWI-MIA - 29095 passengers, 35035 seats, 83.05% load factor

BWI-MKE - 13856 passengers, 16750 seats, 82.72% load factor

BWI-MSP - 4301 passengers, 4881 seats, 88.12% load factor

BWI-MSY - 11255 passengers, 12073 seats, 93.22% load factor

BWI-MYR - 4603 passengers, 7293 seats, 63.12% load factor

BWI-ORD - 12119 passengers, 21164 seats, 57.26% load factor

BWI-ORF - 25304 passengers, 27946 seats, 90.55% load factor

BWI-PBI - 25451 passengers, 29704 seats, 85.68% load factor

BWI-PHX - 24581 passengers, 27742 seats, 88.61% load factor

BWI-PIT - 17332 passengers, 19966 seats, 86.81% load factor

BWI-PNS - 3110 passengers, 5434 seats, 57.23% load factor

BWI-PVD - 35773 passengers, 40100 seats, 89.21% load factor

BWI-PWM - 25546 passengers, 30261 seats, 84.42% load factor

BWI-RDU - 25018 passengers, 28093 seats, 89.05% load factor

BWI-ROC - 21159 passengers, 23968 seats, 88.28% load factor

BWI-RSW - 29160 passengers, 37288 seats, 78.20% load factor

BWI-SAN - 13602 passengers, 15031 seats, 90.49% load factor

BWI-SAT - 15949 passengers, 18382 seats, 86.76% load factor

BWI-SAV - 13728 passengers, 17589 seats, 78.05% load factor

BWI-SDF - 13556 passengers, 18115 seats, 74.83% load factor

BWI-SJU - 16975 passengers, 20986 seats, 80.89% load factor

BWI-SLC - 9218 passengers, 10240 seats, 90.02% load factor

BWI-SRQ - 21386 passengers, 26312 seats, 81.28% load factor

BWI-STL - 22700 passengers, 26117 seats, 86.92% load factor

BWI-TPA - 51261 passengers, 62760 seats, 81.68% load factor

BWI-VPS - 4717 passengers, 7884 seats, 59.83% load factor

ABQ-BWI - 1633 passengers, 1750 seats, 93.31% load factor

ALB-BWI - 36360 passengers, 38979 seats, 93.28% load factor

ATL-BWI - 31288 passengers, 34915 seats, 89.61% load factor

AUS-BWI - 15386 passengers, 17326 seats, 88.80% load factor

BDL-BWI - 34862 passengers, 40676 seats, 85.71% load factor

BNA-BWI - 31174 passengers, 38865 seats, 80.21% load factor

BOS-BWI - 40584 passengers, 45098 seats, 89.99% load factor

BUF-BWI - 33527 passengers, 37661 seats, 89.02% load factor

BWI-CHS - 21646 passengers, 24542 seats, 88.20% load factor

BWI-CLE - 17847 passengers, 20691 seats, 86.25% load factor

BWI-CLT - 15099 passengers, 17885 seats, 84.42% load factor

BWI-CMH - 17098 passengers, 19569 seats, 87.37% load factor

BWI-CVG - 17226 passengers, 20899 seats, 82.42% load factor

BWI-DAL - 32639 passengers, 36602 seats, 89.17% load factor

BWI-DEN - 39144 passengers, 43877 seats, 89.21% load factor

BWI-DTW - 13954 passengers, 19556 seats, 71.35% load factor

BWI-ECP - 3853 passengers, 6330 seats, 60.87% load factor

BWI-FLL - 46535 passengers, 62679 seats, 74.24% load factor

BWI-GRR - 5257 passengers, 8027 seats, 65.49% load factor

BWI-GSP - 7107 passengers, 9344 seats, 76.06% load factor

BWI-HOU - 24542 passengers, 27045 seats, 90.75% load factor

BWI-IND - 16592 passengers, 19859 seats, 83.55% load factor

BWI-ISP - 23060 passengers, 25987 seats, 88.74% load factor

BWI-JAX - 23179 passengers, 25539 seats, 90.76% load factor

BWI-LAS - 32258 passengers, 35844 seats, 90.00% load factor

BWI-LAX - 10160 passengers, 10690 seats, 95.04% load factor

BWI-MCI - 15184 passengers, 17025 seats, 89.19% load factor

BWI-MCO - 69491 passengers, 83051 seats, 83.67% load factor

BWI-MDW - 37198 passengers, 46595 seats, 79.83% load factor

BWI-MEM - 1327 passengers, 1590 seats, 83.46% load factor

BWI-MHT - 30255 passengers, 34894 seats, 86.71% load factor

BWI-MIA - 29095 passengers, 35035 seats, 83.05% load factor

BWI-MKE - 13856 passengers, 16750 seats, 82.72% load factor

BWI-MSP - 4301 passengers, 4881 seats, 88.12% load factor

BWI-MSY - 11255 passengers, 12073 seats, 93.22% load factor

BWI-MYR - 4603 passengers, 7293 seats, 63.12% load factor

BWI-ORD - 12119 passengers, 21164 seats, 57.26% load factor

BWI-ORF - 25304 passengers, 27946 seats, 90.55% load factor

BWI-PBI - 25451 passengers, 29704 seats, 85.68% load factor

BWI-PHX - 24581 passengers, 27742 seats, 88.61% load factor

BWI-PIT - 17332 passengers, 19966 seats, 86.81% load factor

BWI-PNS - 3110 passengers, 5434 seats, 57.23% load factor

BWI-PVD - 35773 passengers, 40100 seats, 89.21% load factor

BWI-PWM - 25546 passengers, 30261 seats, 84.42% load factor

BWI-RDU - 25018 passengers, 28093 seats, 89.05% load factor

BWI-ROC - 21159 passengers, 23968 seats, 88.28% load factor

BWI-RSW - 29160 passengers, 37288 seats, 78.20% load factor

BWI-SAN - 13602 passengers, 15031 seats, 90.49% load factor

BWI-SAT - 15949 passengers, 18382 seats, 86.76% load factor

BWI-SAV - 13728 passengers, 17589 seats, 78.05% load factor

BWI-SDF - 13556 passengers, 18115 seats, 74.83% load factor

BWI-SJU - 16975 passengers, 20986 seats, 80.89% load factor

BWI-SLC - 9218 passengers, 10240 seats, 90.02% load factor

BWI-SRQ - 21386 passengers, 26312 seats, 81.28% load factor

BWI-STL - 22700 passengers, 26117 seats, 86.92% load factor

BWI-TPA - 51261 passengers, 62760 seats, 81.68% load factor

BWI-VPS - 4717 passengers, 7884 seats, 59.83% load factor

Here are the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN flights out of DCA and IAD in May 2021:

ATL-DCA - 12782 passengers, 16302 seats, 78.41% load factor

AUS-DCA - 8224 passengers, 10498 seats, 78.34% load factor

BNA-DCA - 18707 passengers, 24882 seats, 75.18% load factor

DAL-DCA - 13335 passengers, 17367 seats, 76.78% load factor

DCA-FLL - 6571 passengers, 8866 seats, 74.11% load factor

DCA-HOU - 10016 passengers, 13013 seats, 76.97% load factor

DCA-JAX - 4729 passengers, 8723 seats, 54.21% load factor

DCA-MCO - 16906 passengers, 19305 seats, 87.57% load factor

DCA-MDW - 23956 passengers, 30555 seats, 78.40% load factor

DCA-MKE - 6071 passengers, 8866 seats, 68.48% load factor

DCA-OMA - 5983 passengers, 8866 seats, 67.48% load factor

DCA-STL - 7946 passengers, 9009 seats, 88.20% load factor

DCA-TPA - 10078 passengers, 14157 seats, 71.19% load factor

ATL-IAD - 7846 passengers, 14332 seats, 54.74% load factor

DEN-IAD - 9053 passengers, 10223 seats, 88.56% load factor

IAD-MDW - 14237 passengers, 24894 seats, 57.19% load factor

ATL-DCA - 12782 passengers, 16302 seats, 78.41% load factor

AUS-DCA - 8224 passengers, 10498 seats, 78.34% load factor

BNA-DCA - 18707 passengers, 24882 seats, 75.18% load factor

DAL-DCA - 13335 passengers, 17367 seats, 76.78% load factor

DCA-FLL - 6571 passengers, 8866 seats, 74.11% load factor

DCA-HOU - 10016 passengers, 13013 seats, 76.97% load factor

DCA-JAX - 4729 passengers, 8723 seats, 54.21% load factor

DCA-MCO - 16906 passengers, 19305 seats, 87.57% load factor

DCA-MDW - 23956 passengers, 30555 seats, 78.40% load factor

DCA-MKE - 6071 passengers, 8866 seats, 68.48% load factor

DCA-OMA - 5983 passengers, 8866 seats, 67.48% load factor

DCA-STL - 7946 passengers, 9009 seats, 88.20% load factor

DCA-TPA - 10078 passengers, 14157 seats, 71.19% load factor

ATL-IAD - 7846 passengers, 14332 seats, 54.74% load factor

DEN-IAD - 9053 passengers, 10223 seats, 88.56% load factor

IAD-MDW - 14237 passengers, 24894 seats, 57.19% load factor

Interesting that DCA load factors are far below BWI on average even though it's considered the "premier" DMV airport. But WN has been established at BWI for decades, vs only a few years at DCA so I imagine that plays a role.

DCA350 wrote:Interesting that DCA load factors are far below BWI on average even though it's considered the "premier" DMV airport. But WN has been established at BWI for decades, vs only a few years at DCA so I imagine that plays a role.

In addition to the longstanding WN presence at BWI, WN also offers connections to and from Upstate New York, ISP on Long Island, and New England through BWI.

BWI also serves parts of the Baltimore/Washington region that are further from DCA, including Baltimore City, the northern Baltimore suburbs, and the eastern Baltimore suburbs.

IS runway 4/22 ever used at DCA?

b777900 wrote:IS runway 4/22 ever used at DCA?

Very infrequently. It was closed for years for work, but is open again. You can find some videos on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXDKK_8hEFE

The 2019 noise report (last regular year) shows 0.5% of all departures using Runway 4, and just 0.1% of all arrivals using Runway 22.

https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/default ... report.pdf (go to page 8 of the PDF)

And I only ever see operations either taking off to or arriving from the north - never anyone heading south or arriving from the south. I live in Hill East in DC and we occasionally get flights overhead - I don't think I've ever seen anything larger than a E175. My impression is that Runway 4 is basically used only for those RJs heading to eastern destinations as a way to depart along the Anacostia River and stay south of the restricted airspace, so you can immediately head east, rather than having to take a longer route to the west if you depart via Runway 1.

blockski wrote:b777900 wrote:IS runway 4/22 ever used at DCA?

Very infrequently. It was closed for years for work, but is open again. You can find some videos on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXDKK_8hEFE

The 2019 noise report (last regular year) shows 0.5% of all departures using Runway 4, and just 0.1% of all arrivals using Runway 22.

https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/default ... report.pdf (go to page 8 of the PDF)

And I only ever see operations either taking off to or arriving from the north - never anyone heading south or arriving from the south. I live in Hill East in DC and we occasionally get flights overhead - I don't think I've ever seen anything larger than a E175. My impression is that Runway 4 is basically used only for those RJs heading to eastern destinations as a way to depart along the Anacostia River and stay south of the restricted airspace, so you can immediately head east, rather than having to take a longer route to the west if you depart via Runway 1.

That explains that thank you for that, OF all my flying into and out of DCA I never ever seen runway 4 used, so you can land a E175 on 4 ok cool.

- washingtonflyer
**Posts:**1731**Joined:**

Rwy 4 used to see some action when there were Q400s and the older models of Dash-8 at DCA. They're long gone. The only other example is that there is a charter / government contracted J31 that flies to/from DCA. That is the one that will use 4/22.

- slowrambler
**Posts:**154**Joined:**

Listening to LiveATC the other day with a band of weather moving through the area - an E170 asked for rwy 4, tower said ok, but then Potomac Departure said no. I guess the traffic flows for some reason don't make it a good option.

- capitalflyer
**Posts:**683**Joined:**

Lots of unusual operations at IAD with the evacuation. Egyptair from Baghdad just landed. When they arrive, are they off loading at a gate or on hardstand onto moon buggies to IAB?

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