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SkySailor
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Beechcraft Starship

Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:07 pm

I saw my first Beechcraft Starshipfly over back in the 1990's when I was in San Diego. I lived 2 blocks from the Montgomery Field Airport. A couple years later I saw a Starship fly over with a turboprop on one side and a jet engine on the other side. It was low enough to see the two distinct engines clearly. I figured it was some sort of test. Since then I have mentioned that incident to several people, and none of them ever heard of it. I was unable to find anything on the internet about it. Does anyone here have any information or confirmation regarding that test flight?
 
VSMUT
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Re: Beechcraft Starship

Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:23 pm

SkySailor wrote:
A couple years later I saw a Starship fly over with a turboprop on one side and a jet engine on the other side. It was low enough to see the two distinct engines clearly. I figured it was some sort of test. Since then I have mentioned that incident to several people, and none of them ever heard of it. I was unable to find anything on the internet about it. Does anyone here have any information or confirmation regarding that test flight?


It could just as well be some sort of photo shoot for an enthusiasts magazine and/or aircraft spotters with enough money.
 
11C
Posts: 283
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Re: Beechcraft Starship

Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:35 pm

VSMUT wrote:
SkySailor wrote:
A couple years later I saw a Starship fly over with a turboprop on one side and a jet engine on the other side. It was low enough to see the two distinct engines clearly. I figured it was some sort of test. Since then I have mentioned that incident to several people, and none of them ever heard of it. I was unable to find anything on the internet about it. Does anyone here have any information or confirmation regarding that test flight?


It could just as well be some sort of photo shoot for an enthusiasts magazine and/or aircraft spotters with enough money.


I think he means the Starship had two different forms of propulsion. I don’t recall that either. I remember the MD with the fan prop on one side.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Beechcraft Starship

Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:33 pm

If, bit IF, Beech had a test vehicle with intermixed engines, it would not have been operated over San Diego or other heavily populated areas. It would have been at Wichita, Mojave under a “experimental” certificate with lots of restrictions on crew, operating areas and hours.

Production ended in 1995.
 
texl1649
Posts: 1898
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Re: Beechcraft Starship

Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:43 pm

I still cringe a bit when it does sporadically come up. An exemplar of perhaps Rutan’s brilliant mind not being linked to economics/certification/logistics/production realities. I really doubt they ever threw even more money at one with a turbojet engine.

https://airfactsjournal.com/2018/01/why ... -disaster/
 
SkySailor
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Re: Beechcraft Starship

Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:48 am

11C wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
SkySailor wrote:
A couple years later I saw a Starship fly over with a turboprop on one side and a jet engine on the other side. It was low enough to see the two distinct engines clearly. I figured it was some sort of test. Since then I have mentioned that incident to several people, and none of them ever heard of it. I was unable to find anything on the internet about it. Does anyone here have any information or confirmation regarding that test flight?


It could just as well be some sort of photo shoot for an enthusiasts magazine and/or aircraft spotters with enough money.


I think he means the Starship had two different forms of propulsion. I don’t recall that either. I remember the MD with the fan prop on one side.


That is correct. It clearly had a turboprop pusher on one side and a jet engine on the other side. My brother flew a Starship once in a trial for one of the companies for which he was a pilot. He had not heard of that test configuration either.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Beechcraft Starship

Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:12 am

You’re need to provide a link because there’s no information of that and, as I said, experimental aircraft are not normally operated at civil fields other than ones permitted.
 
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ADent
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Re: Beechcraft Starship

Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:13 am

There was a twin jet in the family - the Triumph NGCT (Model 143). http://stargazer2006.online.fr/aircraft ... riumph.htm

I don't see anything about test flights with a mixed setup - though the Triumph was originally designed to have prop and jet versions.

There is a photo of a Starship w/o engines and the nacelle alone looks jet-engine like. But can't think of a scenario they would like w/o an engine or have one fall off.

What year did this sighting happen?
 
11C
Posts: 283
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Re: Beechcraft Starship

Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:28 pm

SkySailor wrote:
11C wrote:
VSMUT wrote:

It could just as well be some sort of photo shoot for an enthusiasts magazine and/or aircraft spotters with enough money.


I think he means the Starship had two different forms of propulsion. I don’t recall that either. I remember the MD with the fan prop on one side.


That is correct. It clearly had a turboprop pusher on one side and a jet engine on the other side. My brother flew a Starship once in a trial for one of the companies for which he was a pilot. He had not heard of that test configuration either.


The only info I could find on a Starship being used in testing recently was the NASA/Langley AGATE drop test. That Starship had no engines. https://www.niar.wichita.edu/agate/Docu ... 0(REV%20NC).pdf
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Beechcraft Starship

Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:38 pm

SkySailor wrote:
11C wrote:
VSMUT wrote:

It could just as well be some sort of photo shoot for an enthusiasts magazine and/or aircraft spotters with enough money.


I think he means the Starship had two different forms of propulsion. I don’t recall that either. I remember the MD with the fan prop on one side.


That is correct. It clearly had a turboprop pusher on one side and a jet engine on the other side. My brother flew a Starship once in a trial for one of the companies for which he was a pilot. He had not heard of that test configuration either.

So, it would appear that no one has ever heard of this, including those involved with Beechcraft and/or the development of the aircraft.
This usually means that it is most likely that you made a mistake in identifying the engines on that plane, especially since you're talking about something that might have happen over 25 years ago.
 
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zeke
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Re: Beechcraft Starship

Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:49 pm

It might have been a Model 143 Triumph, that was to be a piston, turboprop, and jet powered family. One prototype was built, N143SC but I don’t know if it had multiple engine types tested.,it was flown with the Williams FJ44 jet engines.
 
SkySailor
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Re: Beechcraft Starship

Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:59 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
If, bit IF, Beech had a test vehicle with intermixed engines, it would not have been operated over San Diego or other heavily populated areas. It would have been at Wichita, Mojave under a “experimental” certificate with lots of restrictions on crew, operating areas and hours.

Production ended in 1995.

Thank you for your reply. The sighting to which I referred was somewhere around the late 80's to early 90's. I moved to SD in 1981 and left in 1996. I moved to near the Montgomery Field in 1986. There is no doubt in my mind for what I saw. Since I was very young I was always interested in aircraft, making models and identifying aircraft from about age 10. The Starship I saw was flying near the Montgomery Field, which is just South of Miramar Naval Air Station. I knew exactly what it was because a couple years earlier I had seen one at Montgomery Field.I went and researched what I could find on the Starship since it was so unusual, and so similar in configuration to Burt Rutan's VariEze and Long-Ez of which I was a huge fan. Even though this happened about 30 years ago, I remember how certain I was at the time. IMO, there is no way I mistook it for anything other than Turbo prop on one side, Jet on the other. It was very remarkable since it was such a strange thing.
I understand restrictions on test aircraft and other aircraft, and why they are necessary. Perhaps a deviation into restricted air space might not be recorded or hidden. I don't know. All I know about this is that I know what I saw.
Having said that, I suppose if the entire prop assembly was missing from one side, I might have mistaken it for a jet engine from that angle. This is one of those mysteries I would like to have a definitive answer for.
I appreciate all the replies. Thank you all.
 
SkySailor
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Re: Beechcraft Starship

Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:05 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
You’re need to provide a link because there’s no information of that and, as I said, experimental aircraft are not normally operated at civil fields other than ones permitted.

I have been looking for such a link since search engines on the internet became popular.
 
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Strebav8or
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Re: Beechcraft Starship

Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:37 pm

ADent wrote:
There was a twin jet in the family - the Triumph NGCT (Model 143). http://stargazer2006.online.fr/aircraft ... riumph.htm

I don't see anything about test flights with a mixed setup - though the Triumph was originally designed to have prop and jet versions.

There is a photo of a Starship w/o engines and the nacelle alone looks jet-engine like. But can't think of a scenario they would like w/o an engine or have one fall off.

What year did this sighting happen?


Looks like the granddad to an HJ-420.
 
FlyHossD
Posts: 2213
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:45 pm

Re: Beechcraft Starship

Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:26 am

SkySailor wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
You’re need to provide a link because there’s no information of that and, as I said, experimental aircraft are not normally operated at civil fields other than ones permitted.

I have been looking for such a link since search engines on the internet became popular.


I'm left wondering what you saw. Coincidentally, I spent a fair amount of time in at Beech Field in Wichita during the Starships production run and didn't see anything like you described in your first post.
 
SkySailor
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Re: Beechcraft Starship

Wed Jan 06, 2021 6:19 am

FlyHossD wrote:
SkySailor wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
You’re need to provide a link because there’s no information of that and, as I said, experimental aircraft are not normally operated at civil fields other than ones permitted.

I have been looking for such a link since search engines on the internet became popular.


I'm left wondering what you saw. Coincidentally, I spent a fair amount of time in at Beech Field in Wichita during the Starships production run and didn't see anything like you described in your first post.

I understand. Imagine me wondering about this for 30 years. I am so sure about this because I was so absolutely sure at the time, and which I essentially relived so many time since, which leaves out memory fading over time.
Maybe someone else saw it and might also see this discussion. After 30 years its not like I am in any big hurry.
Thank you for your replies.
 
crownvic
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Re: Beechcraft Starship

Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:56 am

Perhaps one engine had the prop feathered giving the appearance of a jet engine?
 
TruNorth
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:25 pm

Re: Beechcraft Starship

Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:04 pm

Maybe try searching for Burt Rutan starship it is a rutan design and if i not mistaken he had 2 models, the 2000A (Beech production model) and model 115 i think maybe that will help i may also look myself later Stay safe from the great white north TruNorth
 
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ADent
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Re: Beechcraft Starship

Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:41 am

TruNorth wrote:
Maybe try searching for Burt Rutan starship it is a rutan design and if i not mistaken he had 2 models, the 2000A (Beech production model) and model 115 i think maybe that will help i may also look myself later Stay safe from the great white north TruNorth

http://stargazer2006.online.fr/aircraft/pages/ngba.htm

Model 115 is basically 85% scale prototype of Starship.

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