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jeffrey1970
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When UPS Flew Passengers

Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:51 am

I remember back in the 90's UPS had passenger service for a short while. Where did they fly to? What was their service like?
 
7673mech
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Re: When UPS Flew Passengers

Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:17 am

 
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adamblang
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Re: When UPS Flew Passengers

Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:36 am

This doesn't really answer your question but this writeup, with photos and video of the quick change process, is fascinating:

https://aerosavvy.com/ups-727-passenger-flights/
 
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DL_Mech
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Re: When UPS Flew Passengers

Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:44 am

I seem to remember UPS doing a lot of Mexico flights for package tour operators on the weekends.

They only used former 727QCs to fly passenger flights. I suppose certification was easier since the airplanes once held a passenger interior even though it was ripped out and disposed of 15+ years earlier. You can see that the seats sat a little higher than normal since they were mounted on pallets. Normal 727 seat backs sat just below the top of the cabin windows.

Image
From : https://i0.wp.com/aerosavvy.com/wp-cont ... .jpg?ssl=1
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.

Former AMT on A220,A310,A319/20/21,A330,A350,B707,B717,B727,B737,B747,B757,B767,B777,DC-9,DC-10,L-1011,
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cedarjet
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Re: When UPS Flew Passengers

Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:27 am

The planes were so old that they were beaten out of shape by many landings etc, so the interiors weren’t really interchangeable, and they initially suffered delays and cancellations because the QC interior waiting at a station on a Friday afternoon wouldn’t fit. They figured out pretty quickly that each jet had to have its own interior.

The banana-ing process isn't unique to the 727, BA 747 FO buddy said that in recent years, the first thing you would do after liftoff would be to reach down and give the rudder trim half a turn to correct the plane’s natural desire to wander off to one side. Quite charming really!
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: When UPS Flew Passengers

Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:51 am

It was quite the forward thinking operation. I've never understood why airlines don't use contracted flight attendants. Much more efficient.
 
SteelChair
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Re: When UPS Flew Passengers

Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:21 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
It was quite the forward thinking operation. I've never understood why airlines don't use contracted flight attendants. Much more efficient.


Scope clauses?
 
MartijnNL
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Re: When UPS Flew Passengers

Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:51 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
I've never understood why airlines don't use contracted flight attendants. Much more efficient.

Why would it be much more efficient? Where I work we also use contracted workers. Per year they cost three to four times more than colleagues with a permanent job.
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: When UPS Flew Passengers

Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:58 pm

cedarjet wrote:
The planes were so old that they were beaten out of shape by many landings etc, so the interiors weren’t really interchangeable, and they initially suffered delays and cancellations because the QC interior waiting at a station on a Friday afternoon wouldn’t fit. They figured out pretty quickly that each jet had to have its own interior.

The banana-ing process isn't unique to the 727, BA 747 FO buddy said that in recent years, the first thing you would do after liftoff would be to reach down and give the rudder trim half a turn to correct the plane’s natural desire to wander off to one side. Quite charming really!


haha, just like my mum's old car.
 
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klm617
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Re: When UPS Flew Passengers

Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:22 pm

They ran a lot of charters out of Detroit with the 727.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
wedgetail737
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Re: When UPS Flew Passengers

Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:25 pm

A little off the subject of UPS, but Fedex also briefly carried passengers on MAC flights after they merged with Flying Tigers.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: When UPS Flew Passengers

Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:44 pm

adamblang wrote:
This doesn't really answer your question but this writeup, with photos and video of the quick change process, is fascinating:

https://aerosavvy.com/ups-727-passenger-flights/


That gives a pretty good outline. Chasing utilization with old, fuel-guzzling aircraft in 1996. Bold. (Not calling it smart.) Fuel was cheap in 1996.
 
SteelChair
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Re: When UPS Flew Passengers

Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:35 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
adamblang wrote:
This doesn't really answer your question but this writeup, with photos and video of the quick change process, is fascinating:

https://aerosavvy.com/ups-727-passenger-flights/


That gives a pretty good outline. Chasing utilization with old, fuel-guzzling aircraft in 1996. Bold. (Not calling it smart.) Fuel was cheap in 1996.


The article says that they had already been re-engined by this point. The re-engining itself was another questionable decision.
 
BHM
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Re: When UPS Flew Passengers

Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:32 am

Threads like this is why I love visiting here.

Were the oxygen masks part of the overhead bin package?
 
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flyPIT
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Re: When UPS Flew Passengers

Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:12 am

Seaboard World also carried military passengers on the upper deck of their 747s cargo flights.

Image

Image
FLYi
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5578
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: When UPS Flew Passengers

Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:48 am

SteelChair wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
adamblang wrote:
This doesn't really answer your question but this writeup, with photos and video of the quick change process, is fascinating:

https://aerosavvy.com/ups-727-passenger-flights/


That gives a pretty good outline. Chasing utilization with old, fuel-guzzling aircraft in 1996. Bold. (Not calling it smart.) Fuel was cheap in 1996.


The article says that they had already been re-engined by this point. The re-engining itself was another questionable decision.


They were outfitted with RR Tay engines (like the Fokker F100's)...interesting sound coming from a 727-100 indeed.
 
smokeybandit
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Re: When UPS Flew Passengers

Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:50 am

DL_Mech wrote:
I seem to remember UPS doing a lot of Mexico flights for package tour operators on the weekends.



UPS doing "package" tours made me chuckle.
 
USAirKid
Posts: 800
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:42 am

Re: When UPS Flew Passengers

Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:33 am

smokeybandit wrote:
DL_Mech wrote:
I seem to remember UPS doing a lot of Mexico flights for package tour operators on the weekends.



UPS doing "package" tours made me chuckle.


If you've been watching the tracking history of a 3 Day Select package, you'd realize they still give packages tours through the UPS system...
 
Flow2706
Posts: 300
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:20 pm

Re: When UPS Flew Passengers

Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:06 pm

cedarjet wrote:
The planes were so old that they were beaten out of shape by many landings etc, so the interiors weren’t really interchangeable, and they initially suffered delays and cancellations because the QC interior waiting at a station on a Friday afternoon wouldn’t fit. They figured out pretty quickly that each jet had to have its own interior.

The banana-ing process isn't unique to the 727, BA 747 FO buddy said that in recent years, the first thing you would do after liftoff would be to reach down and give the rudder trim half a turn to correct the plane’s natural desire to wander off to one side. Quite charming really!

It is also an issue when doing major structural repairs on aging airplanes. In one of the previous companies I worked for there was an incident involving a fire in a Cargo compartment of an A330 (on the ground, during loading/unloading). The damage apparently wasn’t too bad, but it was necessary to replace some structural panels. According to maintenance it was impossible to use new panels as it just wouldn’t fit as the structure was „bent“ from all the pressurisation cycles.
 
Italianflyer
Posts: 717
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:06 pm

Re: When UPS Flew Passengers

Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:21 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
It was quite the forward thinking operation. I've never understood why airlines don't use contracted flight attendants. Much more efficient.


For a cargo airline it makes perfect sense. Why would UPS add a cadre of > 100 FAs to payroll (who would be unionized by IBT immediately)? I believe Atlas did the same thing with their IAH-Lunada venture.
I met the gentleman who ran the contract operation. Was called ISI IIRC. His pic is in that article. He was career Eastern based at DCA then was involved with getting the short-lived USAfrica certified. The primary domicile was SDF with smaller bases at PIT, CVG and PHL (I think). Rotations for Inflight were all scheduled as day trips like G4.
 
WayexTDI
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Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: When UPS Flew Passengers

Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:50 pm

BHM wrote:
Threads like this is why I love visiting here.

Were the oxygen masks part of the overhead bin package?

O2 masks (and chemical generators) are still today part of the overhead bin package.
 
LASVegan
Posts: 87
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2020 5:29 pm

Re: When UPS Flew Passengers

Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:47 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
A little off the subject of UPS, but Fedex also briefly carried passengers on MAC flights after they merged with Flying Tigers.


Glad someone brought up the Tigers/Fedex MAC charters. I believe it was a single ghost 747. My mother worked for Tigers and FedEx 25 or so years. She took me on the MAC scheduled charter LAX-STL a number of times around the late 80s-early 90s. They used the TBIT in LAX and the east terminal in STL before Southwest was large there. The East terminal was pretty much a 3 or so gate outpost before Southwest built it up. The Flying Tiger MAC charter didn’t seem like the best run service, the fights were always very delayed, I mean like many hours delayed. I remember also having the hardest landing I’ve ever experienced going into STL once. Several masks deployed, not pretty.

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