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CX747
Posts: 6572
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:09 pm

DLNZ wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Oh, Lord. Just when SkyLease was going to be able to repaint its planes and pay its crews from the incredible amount of work they have been doing -- this. Obviously, if they're still flying they had the equipment installed at some point.

Also, the complaint is that they "didn't have the required version" of ADS-B Out. Whatever that means. They didn't update the software? Of course, the FAA buries that in its story.

Good news is these fines usually get reduced, but you have to pay lawyers, blah-blah. I mean, really, they're finally getting somewhere and Boom! Fined for something that allegedly happened last summer while they were bringing all that PPE in.

904AR is in maintenance at ST Aero Xiamen. Let's hope they can afford to get her out now.

PS Who's calling my favorite little 36 Street Carrier a "fringe" operator? :fight:
:lol:

Agree, and it seems punitive but not my area of expertise. All I san say is that I wish them well. We need all the strong freight operators we can get, especially ones operating Code E main deck freighters. Their 744ERFs are very capable machines whose services will be at a premium for the foreseeable future. Let's hope they can invest against that.


At the end of the day, these matters are usually reduced monetary wise once the lawyers show up. We don't really have any facts of what actually occurred. Overall, if there is a problem, N904AR is currently down for maintenance and the issues have plenty of time to be solved. N903AR continues the strong showing just pounding out trans-Pacific flights.

I came across the article below in regard to National Airlines and their process of bringing (3) 747-400s back from the desert. Article states the overall cost for (3) 747s would be $45 million.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.freigh ... by-150/amp
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
wjcandee
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:01 pm

Thanks! Interesting article. Not a good sign when an article describes a carrier that has long operated passenger charter flights as a "cargo-only carrier" in the first sentence.

$15 million per aircraft sounds VERY high. Even if a 747 D-check took 100,000 man-hours, which is high, that's $5-6 million for labor at an MRO. Add 20 percent for materials... Maybe since this was a return-to-service check, they meant $15 million total for the three?
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:10 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Thanks! Interesting article. Not a good sign when an article describes a carrier that has long operated passenger charter flights as a "cargo-only carrier" in the first sentence.

$15 million per aircraft sounds VERY high. Even if a 747 D-check took 100,000 man-hours, which is high, that's $5-6 million for labor at an MRO. Add 20 percent for materials... Maybe since this was a return-to-service check, they meant $15 million total for the three?


I'd say it depends on if the engines are all rolled up in that. I haven't seen them in their storage state, but if they were stored without engines that can eat up a lot of that cost. I doubt National was storing 12 engines of a type that they didn't use for a rainy day.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
CX747
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:26 pm

I believe all 3 stored National jets came with everything needed. I do think the number given is a little high at $45 million. It does show though the intricate nature of bringing these jets back onto the world stage.

Article below is estimating conservatively 2024 before things get "cargo wise" back to Pre-Covid. That is a long time to make hay while the sun shines with these 747s.

I've beaten the drum before but I don't know if things ever go "back" to how they were. I think certain formats and shipping lanes have been changed permanently. Getting in now and cementing yourself into the new shipping structure is a generational opportunity. Look at National itself. From 2-5 almost overnight and now flying lights out.

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/suppl ... ippers/amp
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
a2b7
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:40 pm

CX747 wrote:
a2b7 wrote:
How many 747-200F are in storage that could still be reactivated?


I had the same question you had after writing my post!

Disclaimer: The viewpoint of this post is that of a company trying to enter the widebody realm and offer cargo lift. I am assuming financing is tight and buying brand new or lightly used assets is not an option.

I did some very low level research on available 747 lift. As we've discussed 747-8F and 747-400F lift is truly soaked up if you are looking to buy/lease an airframe. There are 2 747-8Fs for sale by Saudi Arabia but they are at a price point few can swallow. 747-400F aircraft either conversion or factory are almost all spoken for. The remaining jets in the desert may be beyond repair.

So, no 747-8F, no 747-400F leaves us with 747-100/200F series aircraft. My search was able to find 5+ jets being offered for sale by different companies. 4 of them were 747-200Fs. 1 of them was a 747-100F. 4 jets were P&W powered, while 1 was GE strong.

Aerostan bought 2 ex-Kalitta 747-200Fs. I figure outside of the 5 I found, making calls to Kalitta, Atlas Air and Air Atlanta Icelandic would be a good start. Either, hey do you guys still have anything tucked away or do you have a lead on where I could go? Maybe a buy your jet but engines from someone else type of thing.

These jets should be affordable to buy. Their operating economics are not modern but margins are amazing in freight right now. If you buy a 747-200F and get going, where are you 2 years from now? What clients have you picked up? What routes are you the go to carrier on? With that knowledge you could move on to a more modern solution after saving away your profit margins.

Food for thought, I honestly saw 2 DC-8-62Fs for sale. Ready to go, current checks and turn key for tomorrow.

I had a look on planespotters.net, and it shows many stored 747-200s, but I find it hard to tell which could still be reactivated, because there are many shown as stored whose fate is unknown. I noticed that there are many Southern Air / Atlas Air at MHV, and Kalitta at OSC.
Indeed calling a former large operator would be a good start.

Thanks for pointing out that there are some for sale. I have found some on https://www.myairtrade.com/available/B747
It shows that the Polar Air Cargo -100F that has been stored at ROW since 2006, N858FT, is for sale, as well as the two Northwest -200F that have been stored at MZJ since 2009 / 2007, N617US and N618US. To be honest I don't expect anybody to reactivate one of those after more than 10 years of storage though.
 
jbs2886
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:43 pm

CX747 wrote:
There are 2 747-8Fs for sale by Saudi Arabia but they are at a price point few can swallow.


You have to wonder how outrageous that price is that in this market no one picks them up. Granted, they are long-term assets, so you can't overpay, but still.
 
CX Flyboy
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:59 am

CX747 wrote:
DLNZ wrote:
CX747 wrote:

NOOOOOOOOO. Hopefully she returns to the land of being able to track flights soon. For now, she slips into South America to operate in the dark with her sister ship.


Disappointing indeed. Do we know why South America is a black spot? Lack of ADSB receivers around the place, or do operators work under a different regime? Shame.

wjcandee wrote:
Good catch, CX747, about IAI. Plenty of airlines use Bedek, and it will be interesting to see if any of the Abraham Accords signers decide to send their aircraft there.

This current page from their web site confirms they will maintain and overhaul your JT9Ds. https://www.iai.co.il/p/engines-mro


Indeed great info, thank you. Our pals at Aerostan seem to be doing a freight mission to MFM, hauling back to what maybe KHI or nearby.

I also wonder about the health of the FlyPRO 742F ER-BAT. A regular flyer until DEC19 and has since vanished on arrival in DEL. Occasionally I can pick up an unidentified -281SF which fits the description. Any ideas from our friends in the subcontinent?

The Georgian registered 742Fs of various customer builds and engine options are also interesting:

4L-GEN Old RB211 bird in regular service TBSFRA v.v with the odd trip to the far East.
4L-GEL whereabouts unknown
4L-GEM Last seen in FRU, is this the second Aerostan amchine?
4L-GEO Another Rolls bird, looks to be in maintenance at CGK. a -236B and young at 31 years old so plenty of life in her depending on engines.


Good break down of the the "Stans" cabal of 747-200Fs. It somehow seems a secret meeting occurred and the 747-200F was chosen as the stead of choice for the frozen tundras of large swaths of land.

4L-GEM is indeed now the 2nd Aerostan 747. Still not yet earning its keep for the new owner. 4L-GEO is down in CGK at GMF for maintenance.

ER-BAT is one of the "unspoken ones". Where she goes, when she goes and how she goes...unless you are part of crew good luck finding her.



ER-BAT is in Macau quite often, sometimes 2-3x per week although I've not noticed it the last few weeks.
 
CX Flyboy
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:00 am

CX747 wrote:
I believe all 3 stored National jets came with everything needed. I do think the number given is a little high at $45 million. It does show though the intricate nature of bringing these jets back onto the world stage.

Article below is estimating conservatively 2024 before things get "cargo wise" back to Pre-Covid. That is a long time to make hay while the sun shines with these 747s.

I've beaten the drum before but I don't know if things ever go "back" to how they were. I think certain formats and shipping lanes have been changed permanently. Getting in now and cementing yourself into the new shipping structure is a generational opportunity. Look at National itself. From 2-5 almost overnight and now flying lights out.

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/suppl ... ippers/amp


I think all three "new" 747s for National are now flying.
 
CX747
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:07 am

CX Flyboy wrote:
CX747 wrote:
I believe all 3 stored National jets came with everything needed. I do think the number given is a little high at $45 million. It does show though the intricate nature of bringing these jets back onto the world stage.

Article below is estimating conservatively 2024 before things get "cargo wise" back to Pre-Covid. That is a long time to make hay while the sun shines with these 747s.

I've beaten the drum before but I don't know if things ever go "back" to how they were. I think certain formats and shipping lanes have been changed permanently. Getting in now and cementing yourself into the new shipping structure is a generational opportunity. Look at National itself. From 2-5 almost overnight and now flying lights out.

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/suppl ... ippers/amp


I think all three "new" 747s for National are now flying.


Yes, they are indeed!!! N702CA, N729CA and N756CA are all at different points of a trans-Pacific journey at the moment. They pass through HKG often enough. It is good to see the P&W power!

If you are able to gather more on ER-BAT that would be great. As one of the "unspoken ones" it is hard to track.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
wjcandee
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:09 am

So Skyliner Aviation says that our Sky Lease 744F N904AR is in a new color scheme after paint at XMN. I assumed that if Sky Lease was going to ferry it all the way to XMN, it wouldn't just be for paint. But who knows? She did get a light check in California before Peak (as did 903AR), but it seems like with all the flying she was doing, maybe she was due.

In any event, she is apparently repainted, but of course I can't find a photo anywhere.

SOURCE: https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb. ... av4&page=3
 
QF744ER
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:23 am

Spacepope wrote:
A little activity on the freighter front these past few days in addition to what's described above:

Another freighter delivery this weekend, MD-83 formerly known as N787TW (Ex-Avianca, not TWA) was reported by https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb. ... av4&page=4 to have exited conversion to full freighter for Aeronaves TSM and was delivered to Saltillo. Should be a regular on the auto parts runs.

It also reports our KLM B744M PH-BFW ferried to TLV for conversion for Combi to full freighter. Customer is Longtail, so maybe we'll see it busy next peak.

Also the 744F that 21 Air was supposed to take was delivered to MCI (for MX work) to Eastern as N251KW. This is the former B-HUS of Cathay


Upon researching the history of Longtail’s VQ-BWS, it also carried a KW rego, back for a few months early last year, N875KW to be precise. Whether it was actually applied to the aircraft is undetermined or whether it was just for transactional purposes, based on this could N251KW ex B-HUS be eventually destined for Longtail Aviation?
 
wjcandee
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:54 am

QF744ER wrote:
Upon researching the history of Longtail’s VQ-BWS, it also carried a KW rego, back for a few months early last year, N875KW to be precise. Whether it was actually applied to the aircraft is undetermined or whether it was just for transactional purposes, based on this could N251KW ex B-HUS be eventually destined for Longtail Aviation?


Absolutely. Ken Woolley has a leasing company, KMW Leasing.

But he could be leasing it to anybody, maybe one of his airlines, maybe not.
 
darloscott
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:10 pm

National Airlines are operating Rockford-Munich-Tokyo Narita-Seoul Incheon-Munich-Rockford starting last week with a second flight due to start at the end of February routing to Chennai. Both on behalf of DB Schenker. Article mentions both B747 and B777 will operate these... National don't have any B777F do they?

https://www.aircargonews.net/freight-fo ... ontinents/

Looks like the first rotation flew on N952CA as
NCR890 RFD-MUC-KGF-NRT Sat/Sun
NCR891 NRT-ICN-KGF-MUC-RFD Sun/Mon
 
wjcandee
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:29 pm

darloscott wrote:
National don't have any B777F do they?


Correct.

darloscott wrote:
Looks like the first rotation flew on N952CA as
NCR890 ...KGF...
NCR891 ...KGF...


Niiiiiice!!
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:12 pm

A brief moment of silence as FX Parked N10060 according to https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb. ... av4&page=4 likely for good.

She's barely broken in, with (according the the last SDR from April) with just 68,000 hours and 28,500 cycles.

We've seen 767s with twice the hours head to conversion (I'm looking at you, Cargojet) but the market has spoken and it's moving on from the old 3-holers.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
wjcandee
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:40 pm

wjcandee wrote:
:crying: OB-2059-P flew back to LIM today. :crying: :crying:


Maybe all hope is not lost...

She's back in the air again today, pointing North from LIM, maybe towards Central America (and maybe towards Miami). Stands to reason she might stop for something on the way back to the party in Miami!

Hopeful, anyway.

SOURCE: https://www.flightradar24.com/HVY125/26aba8f5
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:58 pm

Skylinrer also reports here https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb. ... av4&page=3 that the 77W P2F prototype made an air test at SBD AFTER conversion and... that can't be right can it? I was under the impression it was at SBD for MX work and would be converted at TLV. Does Bedek have a conversion line at SBD now?
The last of the famous international playboys
 
HPRamper
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:31 pm

Spacepope wrote:
A brief moment of silence as FX Parked N10060 according to https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb. ... av4&page=4 likely for good.

She's barely broken in, with (according the the last SDR from April) with just 68,000 hours and 28,500 cycles.

We've seen 767s with twice the hours head to conversion (I'm looking at you, Cargojet) but the market has spoken and it's moving on from the old 3-holers.

Hah. She's also universally known among ground crews as a P.O.S. with side rail loading instead of retractable "butterfly" restraints, and no attached doorsill guards, and an oft-broken shuttle beam loading system in the aft belly. We aren't sad to see her parked. PDX was the last station to see her.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:10 pm

Spacepope wrote:
Does Bedek have a conversion line at SBD now?


No. In theory, the aircraft was there to be reverse-engineered, that is, measured, instrumented, have tests run on things, etc. They have to start with a database of everything in/on the aircraft, to calculate what the airframe/materials stresses are and then determine how to get to their goal aircraft. What has to be replaced? What do they want to replace? I also heard they may need some revised flight control software. Presumably the test flights are to gather info, not to test a completed conversion. I don't think metal will be cut until they have an exact and defensible model of what it is now and what it will be and how to get from A to B.
 
DLNZ
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:32 pm

wjcandee wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
:crying: OB-2059-P flew back to LIM today. :crying: :crying:


Maybe all hope is not lost...

She's back in the air again today, pointing North from LIM, maybe towards Central America (and maybe towards Miami). Stands to reason she might stop for something on the way back to the party in Miami!

Hopeful, anyway.

SOURCE: https://www.flightradar24.com/HVY125/26aba8f5


Wonderful news. Currently between Jamaica and Cuba tracking directly to MIA by the looks. Perhaps she simply felt like a weekend away with family? Niice.
 
DLNZ
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:40 pm

wjcandee wrote:
darloscott wrote:
National don't have any B777F do they?


Correct.

darloscott wrote:
Looks like the first rotation flew on N952CA as
NCR890 ...KGF...
NCR891 ...KGF...


Niiiiiice!!


Nice, thanks for the info. Great to see Schenker continuing its confidence in National. I wonder who will operate the 777F route, perhaps LH Group.
 
tofen
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:40 pm

OB-2059-P is back, and not only that, she brought a friend!
She has N873SJ just a short bit behind her, just now crossing the Colombian cost line out over the gulf. Call sign HVY126.
It looks like we might get two DC-8s flying out of MIA soon.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:58 pm

wjcandee wrote:
:crying: OB-2059-P flew back to LIM today. :crying: :crying:


Woo-hoo!! Our favorite DC8-73CF is now crossing Cuba northbound at 34,000 feet, heading straight towards the Miami approach sequence!!

She's coming back! :champagne: :champagne: :champagne:
 
wjcandee
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:12 am

tofen wrote:
OB-2059-P is back, and not only that, she brought a friend!
She has N873SJ just a short bit behind her, just now crossing the Colombian cost line out over the gulf. Call sign HVY126.
It looks like we might get two DC-8s flying out of MIA soon.


Great freaking catch!
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:37 am

tofen wrote:
OB-2059-P is back, and not only that, she brought a friend!
She has N873SJ just a short bit behind her, just now crossing the Colombian cost line out over the gulf. Call sign HVY126.
It looks like we might get two DC-8s flying out of MIA soon.


Fingers crossed there's a ton of asparagus to move north. DL used to fly 764 and 772s to LIM just for the belly capacity for fresh produce.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
wjcandee
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:06 am

DLNZ wrote:
Nice, thanks for the info. Great to see Schenker continuing its confidence in National. I wonder who will operate the 777F route, perhaps LH Group.


Absolutely. And you make a good point that this is a good piece of business for National that Schenker has committed to for a year.

National got those extra 3 747s in service at exactly the right time!

I wonder, too, about who is providing the 777 service. I think that all of the Kalitta and Atlas/Southern 777s are dedicated to, if not owned by or leased to, DHL. But I could be wrong.
 
smartplane
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:28 am

Interesting, informative thread.

Many of these older aircraft are operating to countries / airports which have used emergency powers to approve temporary noise and / or emissions concessions.

We should enjoy while the need and generosity persists.
 
Allee
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:37 am

wjcandee wrote:
DLNZ wrote:
Nice, thanks for the info. Great to see Schenker continuing its confidence in National. I wonder who will operate the 777F route, perhaps LH Group.


Absolutely. And you make a good point that this is a good piece of business for National that Schenker has committed to for a year.

National got those extra 3 747s in service at exactly the right time!

I wonder, too, about who is providing the 777 service. I think that all of the Kalitta and Atlas/Southern 777s are dedicated to, if not owned by or leased to, DHL. But I could be wrong.


The only one not dedicated to DHL is N704GT. That's been doing a HKG-ICN-LAX-GRU-SCL-LAX-HKG rotation since last summer.
 
CX747
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:06 am

wjcandee wrote:
tofen wrote:
OB-2059-P is back, and not only that, she brought a friend!
She has N873SJ just a short bit behind her, just now crossing the Colombian cost line out over the gulf. Call sign HVY126.
It looks like we might get two DC-8s flying out of MIA soon.


Great freaking catch!


2204 EST...01/26/2021...Two, as in Dos, as in Zwei, DC-8-73Fs now cool their heels on the cargo ramp in Miami. We have two resident Airliners.net Douglas nomads to follow. Welcome back to MIA OB-2059-P and N873SJ we are glad you are playing out this calling too.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
CX747
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:39 am

EX-47001, the Aerostan 747-200F was to operate Karachi-Cairo today. Departed out of Karachi and then had #4 engine issues (engine stall). Descended and returned to Karachi with no fan fare. Hopefully not much of an issue and back to work. The routes the jet is flying are definitely fun. The Carribean, Pakistan, the Ex-Portugese territory of Macau!

http://avherald.com/h?article=4e22f75a
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
DLNZ
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:30 am

Allee wrote:
The only one not dedicated to DHL is N704GT. That's been doing a HKG-ICN-LAX-GRU-SCL-LAX-HKG rotation since last summer.


Good info, thank you. Busy ship in its own right so I wonder where the Schenker lift is coming from.

CX747 wrote:
2204 EST...01/26/2021...Two, as in Dos, as in Zwei, DC-8-73Fs now cool their heels on the cargo ramp in Miami. We have two resident Airliners.net Douglas nomads to follow. Welcome back to MIA OB-2059-P and N873SJ we are glad you are playing out this calling too.


What a time to be alive :airplane:

CX747 wrote:
EX-47001, the Aerostan 747-200F was to operate Karachi-Cairo today. Departed out of Karachi and then had #4 engine issues (engine stall). Descended and returned to Karachi with no fan fare. Hopefully not much of an issue and back to work. The routes the jet is flying are definitely fun. The Carribean, Pakistan, the Ex-Portugese territory of Macau!

http://avherald.com/h?article=4e22f75a


Ah ha, that explains the track on FR24. All the more reason to press the other ship into service. Let's hope she is back to work in the coming days.

The other 74's which would make for an interesting P2F conversion would be the QF pax 744ERS, VH-OEE-J. I've lost track of their status following retirement, but if available would be an interesting business case for conversion. Any info available?
 
tofen
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:08 am

CX747 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
tofen wrote:
OB-2059-P is back, and not only that, she brought a friend!
She has N873SJ just a short bit behind her, just now crossing the Colombian cost line out over the gulf. Call sign HVY126.
It looks like we might get two DC-8s flying out of MIA soon.


Great freaking catch!


2204 EST...01/26/2021...Two, as in Dos, as in Zwei, DC-8-73Fs now cool their heels on the cargo ramp in Miami. We have two resident Airliners.net Douglas nomads to follow. Welcome back to MIA OB-2059-P and N873SJ we are glad you are playing out this calling too.


I wonder if this means that we can disregard the rumour that N873SJ was supposed to go to Samaritans Purse?

Maybe it's the other DC8 that they brought out of Kingman a couple of months ago who will go to them instead? But then again, why would they paint her in Skybus regular colours if they weren't planning to keep her too?
Maybe the deal is off all together?
 
wjcandee
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:12 am

tofen wrote:
CX747 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:

Great freaking catch!


2204 EST...01/26/2021...Two, as in Dos, as in Zwei, DC-8-73Fs now cool their heels on the cargo ramp in Miami. We have two resident Airliners.net Douglas nomads to follow. Welcome back to MIA OB-2059-P and N873SJ we are glad you are playing out this calling too.


I wonder if this means that we can disregard the rumour that N873SJ was supposed to go to Samaritans Purse?

Maybe it's the other DC8 that they brought out of Kingman a couple of months ago who will go to them instead? But then again, why would they paint her in Skybus regular colours if they weren't planning to keep her too?
Maybe the deal is off all together?


I guess she could be coming up to be transferred to SP. But if we see her out there working like her sister, than we'll know we can put that to bed for now. I assumed the SP deal, if there ever was one, was dead when she flew back to Peru.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:40 am

I am STILL looking for a photo of what Skyliner Aviation says is a repainted N904AR at XMN. My search took me to places even like Twitter and Instagram, to no avail.

I did find a remarkable video of the removal of the sweet factory F that they ran off the runway in Halifax, though. https://twitter.com/i/status/1064261877293826059

It's better with the sound on. A good reminder that it's probably best to stop on the runway.
 
tofen
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:34 pm

OB-2059-P has gone straight back to work. She's out of MIA heading for what looks to be SDQ.

N873SJ is still sitting pretty at MIA. I'm really curious what her next move will be.
 
CX747
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:26 pm

tofen wrote:
OB-2059-P has gone straight back to work. She's out of MIA heading for what looks to be SDQ.

N873SJ is still sitting pretty at MIA. I'm really curious what her next move will be.


Not to add to the confusion but I wanted to lay out.

DC-8Fs under Skybus's Kingdom.

OB-2059-P: Back to work out of MIA to the Carribean and Central/South America.

N873SJ: Back up to MIA. Painted in Skybus's White & Blue livery. Talk in the past as sold to Samaritan's Purse.

N805SJ: Also painted in Skybus's White and Blue. Departed Victorville, CA in Sept 2020.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
QF744ER
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:59 am

The QF 744ER’s were bought for their GE engines, rumoured at the time to be by General Electric for further use on 767’s.

However.....

OEE is still listed as stored by QF 80380hrs
OEF is listed as sold to GE Aviation Materials, 79622hrs this is the one at SBD
OEG is listed as sold to GE Aviation Materials 80708hrs
OEH is listed as long term storage 79425hrs
OEI is listed as long term storage 78193hrs
OEJ is listed as long term storage 77441hrs.

Dependant on how current this info is, some might still be available for conversion.

I’d be very surprised if some of how beloved ‘36 St Carriers’ aren’t constantly assessing their fleet options moving forward, N919/952CA are both in the vicinity of 29years young.

wjcandee, do you have any hours/cycles handy on these mentioned birds?
 
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UPlog
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:12 am

FedEx to temporarily relocate its HKG based pilots to OAK to avoid them having to quarantine every time they return to HKG from flying.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-fede ... SKBN29X0EA
I fly your boxes
 
wjcandee
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:47 am

QF744ER wrote:

I’d be very surprised if some of how beloved ‘36 St Carriers’ aren’t constantly assessing their fleet options moving forward, N919/952CA are both in the vicinity of 29years young.

wjcandee, do you have any hours/cycles handy on these mentioned birds?


I think that National would bristle at being called a "36th Street Carrier" given that Murray Aviation was their predecessor (auto parts, like IFL, etc.). But certainly Sky Lease can't object... :D :D

N919CA as of August 5, 2020 reported 14,891 cycles and 1,000,020 hours, which is an obvious data entry. She had 98,470 as of April 14, 2020, so figure it's probably intended to be 100,020 hours.

N952CA as of July 14, 2020 showed 15,251 cycles and 101,195 hours, so just a smidge more than her sister.

Over at Sky Lease, their much-younger Factory-Fs have almost-exactly half those hours and cycles. N903AR is about 18 years old, and N904AR is about 15 years old, both coming from Air France Cargo.

[I should mention that, based on what I saw when looking at N952CA, EGAT does beautiful and comprehensive documentation of their work. They did a buttload of sheet metal/corrosion work on her in the coupla months she spent at TPE this summer, with the repairs supervised by Flight Vehicles Consulting, Inc., who National has used for a while.]
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:43 am

QF744ER wrote:
The QF 744ER’s were bought for their GE engines, rumoured at the time to be by General Electric for further use on 767’s.

However.....

OEE is still listed as stored by QF 80380hrs
OEF is listed as sold to GE Aviation Materials, 79622hrs this is the one at SBD
OEG is listed as sold to GE Aviation Materials 80708hrs
OEH is listed as long term storage 79425hrs
OEI is listed as long term storage 78193hrs
OEJ is listed as long term storage 77441hrs.

Dependant on how current this info is, some might still be available for conversion.

I’d be very surprised if some of how beloved ‘36 St Carriers’ aren’t constantly assessing their fleet options moving forward, N919/952CA are both in the vicinity of 29years young.

wjcandee, do you have any hours/cycles handy on these mentioned birds?

Just out of curiosity where did you get the Aussie hour info?
The last of the famous international playboys
 
QF744ER
Posts: 469
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:47 am

Spacepope wrote:
QF744ER wrote:
The QF 744ER’s were bought for their GE engines, rumoured at the time to be by General Electric for further use on 767’s.

However.....

OEE is still listed as stored by QF 80380hrs
OEF is listed as sold to GE Aviation Materials, 79622hrs this is the one at SBD
OEG is listed as sold to GE Aviation Materials 80708hrs
OEH is listed as long term storage 79425hrs
OEI is listed as long term storage 78193hrs
OEJ is listed as long term storage 77441hrs.

Dependant on how current this info is, some might still be available for conversion.

I’d be very surprised if some of how beloved ‘36 St Carriers’ aren’t constantly assessing their fleet options moving forward, N919/952CA are both in the vicinity of 29years young.

wjcandee, do you have any hours/cycles handy on these mentioned birds?

Just out of curiosity where did you get the Aussie hour info?


Have a look at aussieairliners dot org, really valuable site, also has cycle info for the frames mentioned.
 
QF744ER
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 28, 2021 7:42 am

Cheers as always wjcandee...any hours/cycle info on the 3 recent PW birds they’ve resurrected from the boneyard?

On the subject of stored B747F’s is there anything left of those 2 DL bought from SQC, think they were ex 9V-SCA/B?
 
dcs921
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:44 am

QF744ER wrote:
Cheers as always wjcandee...any hours/cycle info on the 3 recent PW birds they’ve resurrected from the boneyard?

On the subject of stored B747F’s is there anything left of those 2 DL bought from SQC, think they were ex 9V-SCA/B?


Only N756CA is showing any entries in the FAA SDR database.

As of 27Aug20: 82,338 hours and 13,417 cycles.

It's only showing 29 records for July and August. I think that sounds a little low for airplane that was sitting in the desert for 7 years.

It can take a few months for SDRs to be published. They have to be reviewed and approved by the FAA before being published.
 
HPRamper
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:40 am

UPlog wrote:
FedEx to temporarily relocate its HKG based pilots to OAK to avoid them having to quarantine every time they return to HKG from flying.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-fede ... SKBN29X0EA


Oh boy. I bet that was annoying.
 
QF744ER
Posts: 469
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:16 pm

The plot thickens with the QF 744ER’s, have read tonight that either -OEE or I might be returning to Australia for use as a static Museum display, pending a decision by the QF board. Possibly even 2 might be returning.

-OEG has been parted out with H to follow, I wouldn’t of thought once the GE CF6’s are removed that the rest of the airframe has a great value, providing the engines still have ‘green time’ left on them.

This does align with a different source.

OEJ interesting enough is rumoured to be sold/process of sale to be converted to a freighter.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:20 pm

Well, the day has finally come. our other 742F, EX-47002 is in service and doing a Manas-Macau out and back today according to Skyliner. Source:https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb.main?LC=nav4&page=3
The last of the famous international playboys
 
DLNZ
Posts: 89
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:14 pm

Spacepope wrote:
Well, the day has finally come. our other 742F, EX-47002 is in service and doing a Manas-Macau out and back today according to Skyliner. Source:https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb.main?LC=nav4&page=3


Excellent news, let's hope '01 is back in service soon after it's adventures in KHI.

QF744ER wrote:
The plot thickens with the QF 744ER’s, have read tonight that either -OEE or I might be returning to Australia for use as a static Museum display, pending a decision by the QF board. Possibly even 2 might be returning.

-OEG has been parted out with H to follow, I wouldn’t of thought once the GE CF6’s are removed that the rest of the airframe has a great value, providing the engines still have ‘green time’ left on them.

This does align with a different source.

OEJ interesting enough is rumoured to be sold/process of sale to be converted to a freighter.


Thanks for this. There's always been a nagging rumour that QF would like to keep an 'ER, presumably to join the fleet at the Founders Museum at LRE. Truly great experience for any of our international friends on this board who are planning a trip downunder for god knows when.

That said, taking the emotion out of it, highest and best use for these birds is not to have them in a museum surely. I have been reading reports from the freight community elsewhere that they expect capacity shortages to run well into 2023. That coupled with IATA analysis and my own work would support at least four to five good years of service for an operator able to invest in another couple of conversions.

Here's one to consider, could there be value in a fringe, let's call them "36th St operator" shall we (!), to take on a couple of cheap MD10s as FX retires them for some short term, short-medium haul lift?
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:42 pm

DLNZ wrote:
Here's one to consider, could there be value in a fringe, let's call them "36th St operator" shall we (!), to take on a couple of cheap MD10s as FX retires them for some short term, short-medium haul lift?


I don't think FX is too keen on selling their retired aircraft, particularly to a competitor.

Never say never, but I have a feeling the parked MD-10-10s will serve as parts donors for the remaining MD-10-30s and some of the interchangeable bits on the still strong MD-11 fleet.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
CX747
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:28 am

Spacepope wrote:
DLNZ wrote:
Here's one to consider, could there be value in a fringe, let's call them "36th St operator" shall we (!), to take on a couple of cheap MD10s as FX retires them for some short term, short-medium haul lift?


I don't think FX is too keen on selling their retired aircraft, particularly to a competitor.

Never say never, but I have a feeling the parked MD-10-10s will serve as parts donors for the remaining MD-10-30s and some of the interchangeable bits on the still strong MD-11 fleet.


The thought of somebody else trying to pick them up now also crossed my mind. I'm always pretty aggressive on that type of thinking but I don't think they return at all in one piece. No one else out there operates the MD-10 at all. There are actually more DC-8 operators out there! Somehow, someway, Skybus has a little ecosystem going in addition to Samaritan's purse.

Glad to see EX-47002 back out on the line. Hopefully sister shop 001 gets #4 righted and joins the fun again pretty soon. So, just to get this right, there are multiple 747-200Fs flying from the "Stans", at least 4 of which we follow. Add on a 727-200F currently chilling in the Carribean. Then our two resident DC-8Fs out of Miami. We also have 2 747-400s in the firing line for cargo conversion, with rumors of a 3rd. No one could of imagined that even 6 months ago.

How the airlines continue to meet the demands of the market will be fascinating. I think we continue to see old metal resurrected and other interesting moves. There just isn't any lift out there that is available and most can't afford to buy new or slightly used.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
DLNZ
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:20 am

CX747 wrote:
The thought of somebody else trying to pick them up now also crossed my mind. I'm always pretty aggressive on that type of thinking but I don't think they return at all in one piece. No one else out there operates the MD-10 at all. There are actually more DC-8 operators out there! Somehow, someway, Skybus has a little ecosystem going in addition to Samaritan's purse.


Me also, but as has been said earlier, the likelihood of FX using them for parts is high. The only other civil DC10 operator I'm aware of is TAB Boliviana with their DC-10-30 CP-2791 which is busy shuttling between Bolivia and MIA most days. And the Orbis Flying Eye ship which from memory is maintained and flown by volunteer FX folks.

I thought a quick stocktake on the current 727F fleet servicing the US, Caribbean and Mexico might be of interest. Be great for others to add to the list as more info comes to hand:

IFL Group:
N281FL: Busy running from MIA to various points around the Caribbean
N215WE: As above
N216WE: Hasn't flown since peak. Shows as parked at PTK.

USA Jet:
N726US: In service operating out of YIP to various domestic and Mexican ports.
N727US: Very active until late DEC and now parked at DHN according to FR24.

Kalitta Charters:
N724CK: Active out of CVG
N725CK: Parked at OSC base since 06JAN. A couple weeks vacation horsing around perhaps.
N726CK: Busy across the domestic network and now resting at OSC.
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