Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
DLNZ
Posts: 126
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:58 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:32 am

wjcandee wrote:
Halifax looks like a scheduled stop. Don't know the reason. Fish? Like Skylease takes to China a couple of times a week? It will be good to see how well this Phreighter does.

EW-465TQ took so long to get back in action after her heavy-check that I was wondering what was up with her. Glad to see she's moving again! Good catch!


Quite possibly to pick up seafood. It's sensible to think there's plenty of work in pharma coming out of Europe, and hauling seafood etc eastbound. Be interesting to see if this is a regular thing.

Agree re: EW-465TQ. She came out of MX at GMF AeroAsia in Feb, worked sporadically through March and has sat ever since. Another one I follow is Ruby Star's 744 EW-556TQ, which is a hard working machine all over Europe and Asia. The past week or so has seen her pick up a line of work between HKG & TLV, and she seems to be running like a clock.
 
FX1816
Posts: 496
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:02 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:43 pm

HPRamper wrote:
FX1816 wrote:
BigPlaneGuy13 wrote:
Hi all, I was wondering if anyone has an explanation about why all the new-build 763s going to UPS and FedEx no longer have winglets? Would love to understand. Thanks!


FedEx has NO 767's with winglets. The UPS ones without winglets are the converted 767's that UPS is leasing and apparently CAM nor UPS deem it necessary to have winglets on these particular 767's

Didn't the LAN planes have winglets? Yes I know they weren't new-build and they aren't with us any more. Never saw one personally, I think GEG got them.


Yup, the 3 LAN 767's had winglets. We used to get them at ONTR often. I personally thought they were much better looking than the non winglet ones but the parking spots at MEM tell a different story.
 
BigPlaneGuy13
Posts: 110
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:01 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:06 am

FX1816 wrote:
HPRamper wrote:
FX1816 wrote:

FedEx has NO 767's with winglets. The UPS ones without winglets are the converted 767's that UPS is leasing and apparently CAM nor UPS deem it necessary to have winglets on these particular 767's

Didn't the LAN planes have winglets? Yes I know they weren't new-build and they aren't with us any more. Never saw one personally, I think GEG got them.


Yup, the 3 LAN 767's had winglets. We used to get them at ONTR often. I personally thought they were much better looking than the non winglet ones but the parking spots at MEM tell a different story.


Thanks for all this info. So are these new build 767s for FedEx without winglets because they deemed them unnecessary for all the domestic hops, or did Boeing have something to do with the decision?
 
wjcandee
Posts: 10710
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:27 am

BigPlaneGuy13 wrote:
FX1816 wrote:
HPRamper wrote:
Didn't the LAN planes have winglets? Yes I know they weren't new-build and they aren't with us any more. Never saw one personally, I think GEG got them.


Yup, the 3 LAN 767's had winglets. We used to get them at ONTR often. I personally thought they were much better looking than the non winglet ones but the parking spots at MEM tell a different story.


Thanks for all this info. So are these new build 767s for FedEx without winglets because they deemed them unnecessary for all the domestic hops, or did Boeing have something to do with the decision?


The issue, as suggested by the FedEx guys above, is the room in the parking spots at MEM. And the fuel savings from the winglets tends to come at longer stage lengths.
 
Boeing727
Posts: 860
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 1:32 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:23 am

BigPlaneGuy13 wrote:
Thanks for all this info. So are these new build 767s for FedEx without winglets because they deemed them unnecessary for all the domestic hops, or did Boeing have something to do with the decision?


FedEx’s B767s are mainly used on US domestic routes (a few operate overseas intra Asia, I believe). All of UPSs newly acquired B767s also come without the winglets (including the leased ones) and are mainly used on US domestic and Intra–European routes. As mentioned before, only at a certain distance do the winglets provide savings and since UPS does fly the aircraft over the Atlantic/Pacific it gives their operation the flexibility to rotate aircraft with winglets on those longer routes.
 
Newark727
Posts: 2483
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:42 pm

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:46 am

Has Kalitta retired their 727s? Haven't seen any on flightaware lately.
 
Allee
Posts: 589
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 1999 5:47 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:23 am

Newark727 wrote:
Has Kalitta retired their 727s? Haven't seen any on flightaware lately.


3 are flying out of CVG today

N725CK CVG-MKE
N726CK CVG-DTW
N729CK CVG-ROC
 
Newark727
Posts: 2483
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:42 pm

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:25 am

Allee wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
Has Kalitta retired their 727s? Haven't seen any on flightaware lately.


3 are flying out of CVG today

N725CK CVG-MKE
N726CK CVG-DTW
N729CK CVG-ROC


Oh good! :D
 
RoyalBrunei757
Posts: 538
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:15 am

Saw a short clip on IG/FB can't remember which one, ex-Eva Air Boeing 747-45E(BDSF) B-16402, now N27063 has received some parts from Terra Avia B747-4F6 ER-BAC and ex-Lufthansa B747-430 D-ABVP. Ready for flight testing. Can someone confirm on this? Or was it a different ex-Eva airframe?
 
DLNZ
Posts: 126
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:58 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:42 am

DLNZ wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Halifax looks like a scheduled stop. Don't know the reason. Fish? Like Skylease takes to China a couple of times a week? It will be good to see how well this Phreighter does.

EW-465TQ took so long to get back in action after her heavy-check that I was wondering what was up with her. Glad to see she's moving again! Good catch!


Quite possibly to pick up seafood. It's sensible to think there's plenty of work in pharma coming out of Europe, and hauling seafood etc eastbound. Be interesting to see if this is a regular thing.

Agree re: EW-465TQ. She came out of MX at GMF AeroAsia in Feb, worked sporadically through March and has sat ever since. Another one I follow is Ruby Star's 744 EW-556TQ, which is a hard working machine all over Europe and Asia. The past week or so has seen her pick up a line of work between HKG & TLV, and she seems to be running like a clock.


Further to this, EW-465TQ ended up back at CGK so likely another visit to the GMF shop.
 
jbs2886
Posts: 3341
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:35 pm

 
User avatar
VCVSpotter
Posts: 1892
Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 6:10 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:51 am

Was bored tonight so I did some digging, there are only 7 unactivated (stored for longer than a year and WFU) 744Fs in the world:
Ex Grandstar Cargo 744F B-2427
WFU December 25, 2011 at PEK

Ex China Airlines Cargo 744F B-18702
WFU February 1, 2012 at VCV

Ex China Airlines Cargo 744F B-18703
WFU August 2, 2012 at VCV

Ex Korean Air Cargo 744F N925BA/HL7608
WFU May 28, 2013 at MZJ

Ex Air China Cargo 744F B-2458
WFU April 1, 2014 at PEK

Ex Suparna 744F B-2435
WFU May 29, 2019 at PVG

Ex Cathay Pacific Cargo 744F N251KW/B-HUS
WFU September 30, 2019
Ferried MZJ-MCI January 17, 2021

The Grandstar and two China Airlines Cargo 744Fs are full factory freighter, the rest are conversions. If freight demand remains super high, I wouldn’t be surprised to see several of these ‘stragglers’ return. Would be pretty easy to put them through a heavy check now/in the coming months and have them ready for the Black Friday/Xmas rush. Out of the above aircraft, I could see the two China Airlines 744Fs return (as has been rumored for forever), the Korean 744F (as her sister returned, N570B), and the ex Cathay Pacific 744F (especially since she’s registered one number under N252KW, which is going to Mesk Air) all return. These aircraft have all been stored in hot/dry environments (VCV/MZJ) and would make good candidates for a return.

If I remember correctly, I saw a photo somewhere of the Air China 744F in a very sad state, while the Grandstar Cargo looks fine, there are likely some issues under the skin (in both terms of corrosion and other issues) that we cannot see. Or else it probably would’ve been reactivated by now (since it’s a factory freighter). Not sure what’s going on with the Suparna, haven’t seen any recent photos of her after she was stored. Again, it is important to note that China is obviously a less favorable place to store an aircraft vs VCV/MZJ (which have the better hot/dry climate), so that definitely plays into whether these aircraft return or not.

Guess we’ll see if my ‘predictions’ come true by the winter holidays, but something to watch over the next coming months, especially as the second ‘wave’ of 744F reactivations begin (N744ST, N452SN, N27063, N570B, & N282JM) which follow the first wave of National 744Fs out of the desert.
 
DLNZ
Posts: 126
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:58 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:23 am

VCVSpotter wrote:
Was bored tonight so I did some digging, there are only 7 unactivated (stored for longer than a year and WFU) 744Fs in the world:
.


Many thanks for this update, very insightful and had been meaning to do something similar. I agree with your summary and likely candidates for return to service.

Another couple I have been keeping an eye on are the CZ 744F, the two factory F birds. B-2473 returned to service after nearly a year a few months back and is operating mostly between CGO & BRU under a wetlease arrangement for China Central Longhao Airlines.

Sistership B-2461 is still reported as being idle at Guangzhou since SEP20 which given the market dynamics I'm curious about. Perhaps she is not airworthy which would be a shame.
 
User avatar
VCVSpotter
Posts: 1892
Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 6:10 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:36 am

DLNZ wrote:
VCVSpotter wrote:
Was bored tonight so I did some digging, there are only 7 unactivated (stored for longer than a year and WFU) 744Fs in the world:
.


Many thanks for this update, very insightful and had been meaning to do something similar. I agree with your summary and likely candidates for return to service.

Another couple I have been keeping an eye on are the CZ 744F, the two factory F birds. B-2473 returned to service after nearly a year a few months back and is operating mostly between CGO & BRU under a wetlease arrangement for China Central Longhao Airlines.

Sistership B-2461 is still reported as being idle at Guangzhou since SEP20 which given the market dynamics I'm curious about. Perhaps she is not airworthy which would be a shame.


You’re welcome, I’m glad that it was helpful :)

I saw that B-2461 was stored, I think that’s the only conclusion because of the market dynamics as you noted. Wouldn’t make sense for them to park a perfectly good 744F during the peak cargo season. Could be witnessing another ‘Grandstar Cargo 744F’ moment, just sitting and slowly collecting dust/dirt/corrosion/rust/etc until weeks turn to months and months turn to years... Hopefully she’ll be back in service but who knows what’s going on with that one.
 
RoyalBrunei757
Posts: 538
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:21 pm

VCVSpotter wrote:
DLNZ wrote:
VCVSpotter wrote:
Was bored tonight so I did some digging, there are only 7 unactivated (stored for longer than a year and WFU) 744Fs in the world:
.


Many thanks for this update, very insightful and had been meaning to do something similar. I agree with your summary and likely candidates for return to service.

Another couple I have been keeping an eye on are the CZ 744F, the two factory F birds. B-2473 returned to service after nearly a year a few months back and is operating mostly between CGO & BRU under a wetlease arrangement for China Central Longhao Airlines.

Sistership B-2461 is still reported as being idle at Guangzhou since SEP20 which given the market dynamics I'm curious about. Perhaps she is not airworthy which would be a shame.


You’re welcome, I’m glad that it was helpful :)

I saw that B-2461 was stored, I think that’s the only conclusion because of the market dynamics as you noted. Wouldn’t make sense for them to park a perfectly good 744F during the peak cargo season. Could be witnessing another ‘Grandstar Cargo 744F’ moment, just sitting and slowly collecting dust/dirt/corrosion/rust/etc until weeks turn to months and months turn to years... Hopefully she’ll be back in service but who knows what’s going on with that one.


Thank you for your research, been meaning to do smae for some time. I did a write up on B-1461 last month, below was the post. It no longer belongs to Korean Air. I am very curious what the owner will do with it. AMECO Beijing seems to be moving it around from time to time perhaps to keep it service ready. It has been idled for very long time, not sure how much cycle it has left.

Coming back to your post, if the cargo demand is really high I could see SF Express, Longhao Cargo Airlines picking those few China registered B744/F. There are few A330-600F stored at Guangzhou too, but in very poor condition.

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Great to see another B744BCF returning to service.

I was looking at B744F factory made freighter, there is one frame that caught my attention MSN 26401/ Ln 1087. It was delivered to Korean Air 6th Sept 1996, and was reassigned to Grandstar Cargo (a joint venture between Sinotrans Air transportation Development Company and Korean Air Cargo). It began operation on 27th June 2008, having served Frankfurt, Shanghai and Seoul from Tianjin.

However, it ended operation in May 2012. In June 2013, Korean Air agreed to sell the cargo airline to China's Uni-top Airlines for USD0.16. Deal was completed in Nov 2014. Uni-top itself went bankrupt on 20th Nov 2019.

The airframe has been in storage at PEK since 25th Dec 2011, last photo was taken earlier last month looking pretty intact minus the engines.


Airliners.net's latest photo is dated 2019. Competitor's has the latest from May 2021.

Anyone knows any insider information regarding the airframe? She was just 15 years old when she was abandoned. She was spotted being pushed into Beijing Ameco for checks occassionally. Would be a waste if she is scrapped prematurely.
 
RoyalBrunei757
Posts: 538
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:25 pm

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Saw a short clip on IG/FB can't remember which one, ex-Eva Air Boeing 747-45E(BDSF) B-16402, now N27063 has received some parts from Terra Avia B747-4F6 ER-BAC and ex-Lufthansa B747-430 D-ABVP. Ready for flight testing. Can someone confirm on this? Or was it a different ex-Eva airframe?

VCVSpotters managed to capture this Queen leacing desert yesterday! Engine cowling from ER-BAC! Long live the Queen!! Back from the death!

https://www.instagram.com/p/CR_1q1Bl3sB ... _copy_link
 
wjcandee
Posts: 10710
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:14 pm

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Saw a short clip on IG/FB can't remember which one, ex-Eva Air Boeing 747-45E(BDSF) B-16402, now N27063 has received some parts from Terra Avia B747-4F6 ER-BAC and ex-Lufthansa B747-430 D-ABVP. Ready for flight testing. Can someone confirm on this? Or was it a different ex-Eva airframe?

VCVSpotters managed to capture this Queen leacing desert yesterday! Engine cowling from ER-BAC! Long live the Queen!! Back from the death!

https://www.instagram.com/p/CR_1q1Bl3sB ... _copy_link


JetTest brought her to SBD. That's likely to be for some paint at AeroPro; it's where Western Global sent their ships for light work (paint?) a while back.

Could also be to Unical for a light check, although that doesn't strike me as the most-likely.
 
User avatar
Spacepope
Posts: 5417
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:27 pm

wjcandee wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Saw a short clip on IG/FB can't remember which one, ex-Eva Air Boeing 747-45E(BDSF) B-16402, now N27063 has received some parts from Terra Avia B747-4F6 ER-BAC and ex-Lufthansa B747-430 D-ABVP. Ready for flight testing. Can someone confirm on this? Or was it a different ex-Eva airframe?

VCVSpotters managed to capture this Queen leacing desert yesterday! Engine cowling from ER-BAC! Long live the Queen!! Back from the death!

https://www.instagram.com/p/CR_1q1Bl3sB ... _copy_link


JetTest brought her to SBD. That's likely to be for some paint at AeroPro; it's where Western Global sent their ships for light work (paint?) a while back.

Could also be to Unical for a light check, although that doesn't strike me as the most-likely.


Jet Test has done this run recently with another 744. They were in SBD just for a little bit, loaded up humanitarian cargo and then flew to India, where the cargo was delivered and the aircraft went into MX there. I think the aid was carried cost-free on behalf of the aircraft owner, which got around JTN running it as a revenue flight.
 
TUGMASTER
Posts: 1397
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:56 pm

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:09 pm

Wasn’t that The ex KE bird N570B that ended up in HHN…
Not sure what she’s up too now.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 10710
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:23 pm

TUGMASTER wrote:
Wasn’t that The ex KE bird N570B that ended up in HHN…
Not sure what she’s up too now.


That's the one.. It's supposed to go to Aerotranscargo with an ER registration, according to planespotters and other scoop we had on here. The N registration hasn't moved from HHN.
 
User avatar
VCVSpotter
Posts: 1892
Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 6:10 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:50 pm

Spacepope wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
VCVSpotters managed to capture this Queen leacing desert yesterday! Engine cowling from ER-BAC! Long live the Queen!! Back from the death!

https://www.instagram.com/p/CR_1q1Bl3sB ... _copy_link


JetTest brought her to SBD. That's likely to be for some paint at AeroPro; it's where Western Global sent their ships for light work (paint?) a while back.

Could also be to Unical for a light check, although that doesn't strike me as the most-likely.


Jet Test has done this run recently with another 744. They were in SBD just for a little bit, loaded up humanitarian cargo and then flew to India, where the cargo was delivered and the aircraft went into MX there. I think the aid was carried cost-free on behalf of the aircraft owner, which got around JTN running it as a revenue flight.


Thanks for sharing my post! :) Yesterday's takeoff was one of the most beautiful 747 takeoffs I've ever seen, so majestic leaping into the skies again with a tight bank almost right after departure with the gear hangin'. Some pretty cool stuff.

From what I've been told, SBD is indeed to pick up donated covid aid. The owner is the same as ex Korean 744F N570B that went to HHN. N570B carried 50 tons of PPE/oxygen concentrators, I'd imagine the payload for N27063 would be around the same. Check out this instagram page, it has some cool info and several posts about that flight:
https://www.instagram.com/skyonefze/
 
MO11
Posts: 1849
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:06 pm

Kalitta Charters II bought a 737-300 freighter from South Africa yesterday. Not sure if it will be a new addition to the fleet, or more for the parts bin.
 
jeffrey0032j
Posts: 1022
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:11 pm

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:24 am

MO11 wrote:
Kalitta Charters II bought a 737-300 freighter from South Africa yesterday. Not sure if it will be a new addition to the fleet, or more for the parts bin.

I would imagine that it is easier to get parts from retired pax 737 classics.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 10710
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:39 pm

So I was in Cincinnati today, and decided to drive up to Hooterville (KILN) to see it in person. Nice drive, pretty day.

I could see the yellow-banana 757s that will be going to some other carrier. I saw the Ribway DC8. I could see the tail of what must be N152DL, parked in line with a couple of less-identifable tails. I saw the Cappy 727s and former-ATI DC8s. But that was about all I could make out clearly.

I don't know if I will have time to head back before I leave, but where do people go where they can (legally) see interesting things? (PM me if you don't want to say publicly.) I did see the interesting stuff I mentioned from one parking lot, and waaaay-across a cornfield while driving up a 2-lane road, but otherwise, most views are blocked by buildings. Nevertheless, to appreciate its remoteness and access, it was worth the drive. Also can see the effect of DHL pulling out, all these years later, in the economic condition of the area. I returned through the town of Wilmington itself. Cute town, with the Courthouse in the middle of town square, like so many cities of the era.

One thing that intrigued me: from I-71, you exit onto Ohio Rt. 73, which for the first about-4-miles from the Interstate is a hilly, winding, 2-lane country road that semi-trucks have to navigate carefully, then it opens up into an Interstate-quality, 4-lane, straight, divided highway with bridges and overpasses and the like (and little traffic). I wonder why it was never connected those last 4 miles all the way to the Interstate? (I can guess...) If it was, it would have made ILN a much-more-desireable place to load stuff from the area onto aircraft and the reverse as well, and a much-easier commute. It would be a very-easy in-and-out.
 
User avatar
Boeing757100
Posts: 730
Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 10:09 pm

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:17 pm

wjcandee wrote:
I saw the Ribway DC8.



Wonder if this frame will ever enter service?? Has been announced for years now?
 
User avatar
Spacepope
Posts: 5417
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:46 pm

MO11 wrote:
Kalitta Charters II bought a 737-300 freighter from South Africa yesterday. Not sure if it will be a new addition to the fleet, or more for the parts bin.


It's a fairly high line number at 2300 or so, these sorts of airframes are still just getting converted for freighter right now so I'll stick my neck out and guess it's going to enter service with K2
 
MO11
Posts: 1849
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:34 am

K9. K2 is Paklook Air.

The -300 kind of threw me for a moment, but its certainly not the first.
 
CoThG
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:24 pm

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:14 pm

wjcandee wrote:
So I was in Cincinnati today, and decided to drive up to Hooterville (KILN) to see it in person. Nice drive, pretty day.

I could see the yellow-banana 757s that will be going to some other carrier. I saw the Ribway DC8. I could see the tail of what must be N152DL, parked in line with a couple of less-identifable tails. I saw the Cappy 727s and former-ATI DC8s. But that was about all I could make out clearly.

I don't know if I will have time to head back before I leave, but where do people go where they can (legally) see interesting things? (PM me if you don't want to say publicly.) I did see the interesting stuff I mentioned from one parking lot, and waaaay-across a cornfield while driving up a 2-lane road, but otherwise, most views are blocked by buildings. Nevertheless, to appreciate its remoteness and access, it was worth the drive. Also can see the effect of DHL pulling out, all these years later, in the economic condition of the area. I returned through the town of Wilmington itself. Cute town, with the Courthouse in the middle of town square, like so many cities of the era.

One thing that intrigued me: from I-71, you exit onto Ohio Rt. 73, which for the first about-4-miles from the Interstate is a hilly, winding, 2-lane country road that semi-trucks have to navigate carefully, then it opens up into an Interstate-quality, 4-lane, straight, divided highway with bridges and overpasses and the like (and little traffic). I wonder why it was never connected those last 4 miles all the way to the Interstate? (I can guess...) If it was, it would have made ILN a much-more-desireable place to load stuff from the area onto aircraft and the reverse as well, and a much-easier commute. It would be a very-easy in-and-out.


That is the State Route 73 Bypass. It was designed and budgeted when ILN was still Airborne Express. It was designed for the trucks and fuel tankers destined for ILN to bypass going through downtown Wilmington. The usual delays resulted in it being completed after DHL pulled out of ILN. Locals call it "The road to nowhere". Interestingly, ILN does not have an underground fuel pipeline to it's fuel farm, even though there is a large pipeline terminal nearby in Lebanon. All the fuel tanker truck had to travel right through the downtown portion of Wilmington. That hazard and the constant noise the trucks made all night and the traffic congestion caused, where enough for the state to design the bypass. Unfortunately for Wilmington, it came too late.
 
User avatar
Spacepope
Posts: 5417
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:16 pm

Considering how active the freighter fleets have been it's amazing we've had so few mishaps these past 18 months. Looking at AvHerald the worst things recently were a cargo fire indication for National at NRT and an ASL 734 with a cargo door seal issue.

Of note on Skyliner: Everts took delivery of N963CE, a fresh MD-83F conversion. The Mexican changeover to 734Fs continies for Aeronaves TSM, and the conversion pace of A321s continues to be glacial.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 10710
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:23 pm

CoThG wrote:

That is the State Route 73 Bypass. It was designed and budgeted when ILN was still Airborne Express. It was designed for the trucks and fuel tankers destined for ILN to bypass going through downtown Wilmington. The usual delays resulted in it being completed after DHL pulled out of ILN. Locals call it "The road to nowhere". Interestingly, ILN does not have an underground fuel pipeline to it's fuel farm, even though there is a large pipeline terminal nearby in Lebanon. All the fuel tanker truck had to travel right through the downtown portion of Wilmington. That hazard and the constant noise the trucks made all night and the traffic congestion caused, where enough for the state to design the bypass. Unfortunately for Wilmington, it came too late.


Thanks for that! It sure did seem to be a "road to nowhere", but it's a very nice road! Had Ohio ever realized how big Amazon air was going to be, and how serious Amazon was about it, it would have behooved them to offer the completion of that as an incentive to keep ILN as their air hub, rather than losing the business to Kentucky. A failure of vision by Ohio, Clinton County, etc.

I also noticed what looked like a little park and ride lot, not too old, that seemed basically abandoned. I guess that was extra employee parking?

The good news is that the ATSG operation is going well; I guess the place is destined basically to become another OSC, albeit closer to civilization. Planes fly in to get fixed, then they fly out. Can't see Amazon keeping the little old-style sort there once they open at CVG with the whizbang new-tech sort that they're shaking out in the facility at LAL, rather than ILN.

One thing that is quite-evident as I have run around Northern Cincinnati the last few days is how tight the employment situation is. I know it was tight pre-Covid here -- the area was doing well -- but it's worse. Everybody has signs in the window begging people to come work. My hotel is short-staffed. The Waffle house opens at 7 and closes at 2, and they have trouble staffing that 7 days a week. Every food chain, every department store, every business with a sign facing the road is advertising job opportunities. There's a latent boom ready to explode here once people want to work again.
 
CoThG
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:24 pm

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Aug 04, 2021 3:31 am

wjcandee wrote:
CoThG wrote:

That is the State Route 73 Bypass. It was designed and budgeted when ILN was still Airborne Express. It was designed for the trucks and fuel tankers destined for ILN to bypass going through downtown Wilmington. The usual delays resulted in it being completed after DHL pulled out of ILN. Locals call it "The road to nowhere". Interestingly, ILN does not have an underground fuel pipeline to it's fuel farm, even though there is a large pipeline terminal nearby in Lebanon. All the fuel tanker truck had to travel right through the downtown portion of Wilmington. That hazard and the constant noise the trucks made all night and the traffic congestion caused, where enough for the state to design the bypass. Unfortunately for Wilmington, it came too late.


Thanks for that! It sure did seem to be a "road to nowhere", but it's a very nice road! Had Ohio ever realized how big Amazon air was going to be, and how serious Amazon was about it, it would have behooved them to offer the completion of that as an incentive to keep ILN as their air hub, rather than losing the business to Kentucky. A failure of vision by Ohio, Clinton County, etc.

I also noticed what looked like a little park and ride lot, not too old, that seemed basically abandoned. I guess that was extra employee parking?

The good news is that the ATSG operation is going well; I guess the place is destined basically to become another OSC, albeit closer to civilization. Planes fly in to get fixed, then they fly out. Can't see Amazon keeping the little old-style sort there once they open at CVG with the whizbang new-tech sort that they're shaking out in the facility at LAL, rather than ILN.

One thing that is quite-evident as I have run around Northern Cincinnati the last few days is how tight the employment situation is. I know it was tight pre-Covid here -- the area was doing well -- but it's worse. Everybody has signs in the window begging people to come work. My hotel is short-staffed. The Waffle house opens at 7 and closes at 2, and they have trouble staffing that 7 days a week. Every food chain, every department store, every business with a sign facing the road is advertising job opportunities. There's a latent boom ready to explode here once people want to work again.


That was the DHL sort parking lot. The building in the back was the security building and the pick up/drop off for the busses to take the workers into the sort.

Fat chance of that with the current administration.
 
RoyalBrunei757
Posts: 538
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:48 pm

VCVSpotter wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
wjcandee wrote:

JetTest brought her to SBD. That's likely to be for some paint at AeroPro; it's where Western Global sent their ships for light work (paint?) a while back.

Could also be to Unical for a light check, although that doesn't strike me as the most-likely.


Jet Test has done this run recently with another 744. They were in SBD just for a little bit, loaded up humanitarian cargo and then flew to India, where the cargo was delivered and the aircraft went into MX there. I think the aid was carried cost-free on behalf of the aircraft owner, which got around JTN running it as a revenue flight.


Thanks for sharing my post! :) Yesterday's takeoff was one of the most beautiful 747 takeoffs I've ever seen, so majestic leaping into the skies again with a tight bank almost right after departure with the gear hangin'. Some pretty cool stuff.

From what I've been told, SBD is indeed to pick up donated covid aid. The owner is the same as ex Korean 744F N570B that went to HHN. N570B carried 50 tons of PPE/oxygen concentrators, I'd imagine the payload for N27063 would be around the same. Check out this instagram page, it has some cool info and several posts about that flight:
https://www.instagram.com/skyonefze/

Yes indeed, judging from your photos, she looks all mighty to be airborne again! Despite being a Frankenstien (Parts from many other sisters), she took off effortlessly. I sure hope she will fly many years to come. Thanks for sharing skyonefze's IG.
 
MO11
Posts: 1849
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Aug 05, 2021 4:41 pm

Spacepope wrote:

Of note on Skyliner: Everts took delivery of N963CE, a fresh MD-83F conversion. The Mexican changeover to 734Fs continies for Aeronaves TSM, and the conversion pace of A321s continues to be glacial.


Yesterday it purchased the two 737-400s that Southern was using as trainers.
 
User avatar
Spacepope
Posts: 5417
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Aug 05, 2021 5:37 pm

MO11 wrote:
Spacepope wrote:

Of note on Skyliner: Everts took delivery of N963CE, a fresh MD-83F conversion. The Mexican changeover to 734Fs continies for Aeronaves TSM, and the conversion pace of A321s continues to be glacial.


Yesterday it purchased the two 737-400s that Southern was using as trainers.


Apparently the DC-9 well has run dry.
 
User avatar
UPlog
Posts: 743
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:45 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 06, 2021 12:36 am

With todays strong earnings report, Atlas reported they would be purchasing 8 B744 freighters coming off leases through end of 2022.

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/atlas ... n-capacity
 
maaspotter
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 5:41 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 06, 2021 8:53 am

DLNZ wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Halifax looks like a scheduled stop. Don't know the reason. Fish? Like Skylease takes to China a couple of times a week? It will be good to see how well this Phreighter does.

Longtail is flying to MST with a fresh load of lobsters twice a week, so most likely that's the reason they stop at Halifax.

VQ-BWS has been sitting at the MST tarmac for more then a week as well, it got an engine change and some maintenance work, so most likely VQ-BZV was it's (temporary?) replacement. VQ-BWS flew back to Karaganda yesterday, most likely for some more maintenance.

Longtail-engines and MST are not the best combo over the last year..
 
CX747
Posts: 6664
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 06, 2021 12:13 pm

UPlog wrote:
With todays strong earnings report, Atlas reported they would be purchasing 8 B744 freighters coming off leases through end of 2022.

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/atlas ... n-capacity


Beat me to it!!!

Out of the 8 leased in frames to be purchased, 3 have already been bought. The remaining 5 will end up the same way when their leases expire. Good news for the overall fleet, as this keeps 747-400Fs on property, even as the new 4 747-8Fs arrive.

This doesn't help operators further down the line that were hoping to pick up used 747-400Fs when Atlas's 747-8Fs arrived. It could be good news for us though, as the creative return of Leviathans from the desert may continue.
 
bigb
Posts: 1417
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:30 pm

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 06, 2021 12:24 pm

CX747 wrote:
UPlog wrote:
With todays strong earnings report, Atlas reported they would be purchasing 8 B744 freighters coming off leases through end of 2022.

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/atlas ... n-capacity


Beat me to it!!!

Out of the 8 leased in frames to be purchased, 3 have already been bought. The remaining 5 will end up the same way when their leases expire. Good news for the overall fleet, as this keeps 747-400Fs on property, even as the new 4 747-8Fs arrive.

This doesn't help operators further down the line that were hoping to pick up used 747-400Fs when Atlas's 747-8Fs arrived. It could be good news for us though, as the creative return of Leviathans from the desert may continue.


I also wouldn’t be surprised to see attempted 777 expansion once the contract is ruled on by the Arbitrator. I am hearing rumblings of the 74s coming off of the Polar cert to be replaced by the triple down the road for the 74s can pick up more contract flying outside of the Polar cert.
 
MO11
Posts: 1849
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:49 pm

bigb wrote:
CX747 wrote:
UPlog wrote:
With todays strong earnings report, Atlas reported they would be purchasing 8 B744 freighters coming off leases through end of 2022.

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/atlas ... n-capacity


.


I also wouldn’t be surprised to see attempted 777 expansion once the contract is ruled on by the Arbitrator. I am hearing rumblings of the 74s coming off of the Polar cert to be replaced by the triple down the road for the 74s can pick up more contract flying outside of the Polar cert.


N450PA already there.
 
CoThG
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:24 pm

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 06, 2021 5:55 pm

UPlog wrote:
With todays strong earnings report, Atlas reported they would be purchasing 8 B744 freighters coming off leases through end of 2022.

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/atlas ... n-capacity


And a soon to be favorable ruling from the arbitrator....
 
User avatar
Spacepope
Posts: 5417
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 06, 2021 6:23 pm

CX747 wrote:
UPlog wrote:
With todays strong earnings report, Atlas reported they would be purchasing 8 B744 freighters coming off leases through end of 2022.

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/atlas ... n-capacity


Beat me to it!!!

Out of the 8 leased in frames to be purchased, 3 have already been bought. The remaining 5 will end up the same way when their leases expire. Good news for the overall fleet, as this keeps 747-400Fs on property, even as the new 4 747-8Fs arrive.

This doesn't help operators further down the line that were hoping to pick up used 747-400Fs when Atlas's 747-8Fs arrived. It could be good news for us though, as the creative return of Leviathans from the desert may continue.


Indeed, the thought crossed my mind that they were securing these 8 rather than letting them go up for grabs on the open market to keep airframes away from potential competitors. Though with all the random shortages and continual supply chain disruptions persisting for the foreseeable future, perhaps the business case looks rosy for them.

That and when they eventually park them, they have 16 spare shipsets of engines for the 767 fleet.
 
bigb
Posts: 1417
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:30 pm

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:06 pm

Spacepope wrote:
CX747 wrote:
UPlog wrote:
With todays strong earnings report, Atlas reported they would be purchasing 8 B744 freighters coming off leases through end of 2022.

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/atlas ... n-capacity


Beat me to it!!!

Out of the 8 leased in frames to be purchased, 3 have already been bought. The remaining 5 will end up the same way when their leases expire. Good news for the overall fleet, as this keeps 747-400Fs on property, even as the new 4 747-8Fs arrive.

This doesn't help operators further down the line that were hoping to pick up used 747-400Fs when Atlas's 747-8Fs arrived. It could be good news for us though, as the creative return of Leviathans from the desert may continue.


Indeed, the thought crossed my mind that they were securing these 8 rather than letting them go up for grabs on the open market to keep airframes away from potential competitors. Though with all the random shortages and continual supply chain disruptions persisting for the foreseeable future, perhaps the business case looks rosy for them.

That and when they eventually park them, they have 16 spare shipsets of engines for the 767 fleet.


Those Engines will be timed out for ETOPs by the time those birds are retired.
 
User avatar
Spacepope
Posts: 5417
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:23 pm

bigb wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
CX747 wrote:

Beat me to it!!!

Out of the 8 leased in frames to be purchased, 3 have already been bought. The remaining 5 will end up the same way when their leases expire. Good news for the overall fleet, as this keeps 747-400Fs on property, even as the new 4 747-8Fs arrive.

This doesn't help operators further down the line that were hoping to pick up used 747-400Fs when Atlas's 747-8Fs arrived. It could be good news for us though, as the creative return of Leviathans from the desert may continue.


Indeed, the thought crossed my mind that they were securing these 8 rather than letting them go up for grabs on the open market to keep airframes away from potential competitors. Though with all the random shortages and continual supply chain disruptions persisting for the foreseeable future, perhaps the business case looks rosy for them.

That and when they eventually park them, they have 16 spare shipsets of engines for the 767 fleet.


Those Engines will be timed out for ETOPs by the time those birds are retired.


So they'll be just fine for all of Atlas' Amazon flying then is what you're saying.
 
CX747
Posts: 6664
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Sat Aug 07, 2021 12:57 am

I would assume, that the 747 birds Atlas just bought are going to be run at minimum another 7+ years. I'd love to have this same thread running for that amount of time. A great place of sharing knowledge and insight.
 
bigb
Posts: 1417
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:30 pm

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Sat Aug 07, 2021 1:11 am

Spacepope wrote:
bigb wrote:
Spacepope wrote:

Indeed, the thought crossed my mind that they were securing these 8 rather than letting them go up for grabs on the open market to keep airframes away from potential competitors. Though with all the random shortages and continual supply chain disruptions persisting for the foreseeable future, perhaps the business case looks rosy for them.

That and when they eventually park them, they have 16 spare shipsets of engines for the 767 fleet.


Those Engines will be timed out for ETOPs by the time those birds are retired.


So they'll be just fine for all of Atlas' Amazon flying then is what you're saying.


Not when they maintained to ETOP standards, they have to keep them all ETOPs certified for the AMZ ONT-HNL runs.
 
Flying-Tiger
Posts: 4126
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 1999 5:35 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:40 pm

Cargofacts reports that ATSG has signed for no fewer than 20 A330 slots at EFW from mod-2023 to 2025.

https://cargofacts.com/allposts/business/strategy/atsg-looks-to-future-growth-with-efw-a330-slots/
 
wjcandee
Posts: 10710
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Sat Aug 07, 2021 11:04 pm

Flying-Tiger wrote:
Cargofacts reports that ATSG has signed for no fewer than 20 A330 slots at EFW from mod-2023 to 2025.
https://cargofacts.com/allposts/business/strategy/atsg-looks-to-future-growth-with-efw-a330-slots/


I saw that. Apparently, they perceive a market for the thing. It didn't sell well as a new-build freighter, but I guess the 767 didn't initially sell particularly-well as a new-build freighter, either.
 
User avatar
Spacepope
Posts: 5417
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:16 am

wjcandee wrote:
Flying-Tiger wrote:
Cargofacts reports that ATSG has signed for no fewer than 20 A330 slots at EFW from mod-2023 to 2025.
https://cargofacts.com/allposts/business/strategy/atsg-looks-to-future-growth-with-efw-a330-slots/


I saw that. Apparently, they perceive a market for the thing. It didn't sell well as a new-build freighter, but I guess the 767 didn't initially sell particularly-well as a new-build freighter, either.


The line at Dresden was supposed to do 12-14 conversions a year as I remember, but the first few years they never got close to hitting capacity. 20 is a huge order for this line.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 10710
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 08, 2021 2:04 am

Spacepope wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Flying-Tiger wrote:
Cargofacts reports that ATSG has signed for no fewer than 20 A330 slots at EFW from mod-2023 to 2025.
https://cargofacts.com/allposts/business/strategy/atsg-looks-to-future-growth-with-efw-a330-slots/


I saw that. Apparently, they perceive a market for the thing. It didn't sell well as a new-build freighter, but I guess the 767 didn't initially sell particularly-well as a new-build freighter, either.


The line at Dresden was supposed to do 12-14 conversions a year as I remember, but the first few years they never got close to hitting capacity. 20 is a huge order for this line.


Giving it some more thought, ATSG is highly-opportunistic. They always reserve a lot of slots at IAI, who is happy to give them to them. (I was intrigued to see in the CargoFacts article that they have 32 slots at IAI still. That's a lot; 10-12 per year.) The cost to reserve 20 A330 slots at EFW is probably pretty-low, given the excess capacity of that line, and there are probably escape clauses if ATSG can't find lessees or suitable feedstock.

Still, it's a bold move, just like optioning those ex-AA 767s from Jetran was.

The media all said that ATSG "bought" those 767s, which wasn't really true: what they did was, for a relatively-small investment, obtain options to buy as many as 20 of the retiring aircraft, within a time frame, at a fixed, favorable price. Smart. As it turned out, very-smart given the ultimate demand for those aircraft and slots. As orders came and slots were available, ATSG bought the aircraft one-by-one until they went through all 20.

So it will be interesting to see what kind of orders CAM gets (I assume, actually, that they have some in the pipeline if they're pulling the trigger), and we can see where CAM starts acquiring feedstock. Fun!

The article says ATSG plans to place 9 767-300s on lease in the second half of 2021. That seems a bit ambitious. I can see 8, but 9 is a lot.

You have 233AZ and 239AZ both now delivered to Amazon in June. So that's two already.
Then you have 399AN, which is the one for DHL UK that was just painted in Malta. Three.
Then you have 432AX, which is painted and ready to go to Amerijet. Saw that one in ILN last week. Four.
At TLV, you have 391AA (since Jan), 398AN (since Feb), 397AN (since March), 396AN (since May), and 391CM (since July 5). The first four could be ready by year-end, but the July one is ambitious, if you consider that it's usually 2 weeks at least at ILN for post-conversion maintenance and then 2 weeks at a painting contractor. She would have to be out of TLV by November 30 to be ready to lease before year-end. Four months is a bit fast for TLV. The norm is six. I have seen it done as fast as five.

Maybe I'm missing an aircraft that they're counting as a second-half delivery, or maybe there's one at TLV that I missed. In any event, it will be interesting.
Last edited by wjcandee on Sun Aug 08, 2021 2:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
jbs2886
Posts: 3341
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 08, 2021 2:17 am

wjcandee wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
wjcandee wrote:

I saw that. Apparently, they perceive a market for the thing. It didn't sell well as a new-build freighter, but I guess the 767 didn't initially sell particularly-well as a new-build freighter, either.


The line at Dresden was supposed to do 12-14 conversions a year as I remember, but the first few years they never got close to hitting capacity. 20 is a huge order for this line.


Giving it some more thought, ATSG is highly-opportunistic. They always reserve a lot of slots at IAI, who is happy to give them to them. (I was intrigued to see in the CargoFacts article that they have 32 slots at IAI still. That's a lot; 10-12 per year.) The cost to reserve 20 A330 slots at EFW is probably pretty-low, given the excess capacity of that line, and there are probably escape clauses if ATSG can't find lessees or suitable feedstock.

Still, it's a bold move, just like optioning those ex-AA 767s from Jetran was.

The media all said that ATSG "bought" those 767s, which wasn't really true: what they did was, for a relatively-small investment, obtain options to buy as many as 20 of the retiring aircraft, within a time frame, at a fixed, favorable price. Smart. As it turned out, very-smart given the ultimate demand for those aircraft and slots. As orders came and slots were available, ATSG bought the aircraft one-by-one until they went through all 20.

So it will be interesting to see what kind of orders CAM gets (I assume, actually, that they have some in the pipeline if they're pulling the trigger), and we can see where CAM starts acquiring feedstock. Fun!


Is that 32 slots for 767s?! The A330 move is incredibly interesting and definitely hedging on the 767 supply drying up. Definitely will be interesting which aircraft. Is the EFW line -200s and -300s or just one?

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos