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RoyalBrunei757
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:27 am

gdavis003 wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Notice this update which is kind of surprising. Is it heading for scrapping? That is one long way to get from one desert to another???
Boeing 747 -428 32869 1327 TF-AAJ Air Atlanta Icelandic posn / in svc 29sep-02oct21 JED-DWC-ICN-HAN-HKG-ICN-ANC after storage ex F-GITI


It must be operating as a preighter now. Routing would seem to indicate that it carried a load from DWC to ICN and then from HAN to RFD. It's now scheduled to fly back to ANC from RFD in a little while.

Thanks for the input. I was guessing the same. According to FR24, it has stopped at RFP and went into storage again.
https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... dic/rojwv3
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/tf-aaj
 
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ghost77
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:40 am

Hello everyone!

MasAir it's getting its 4th B767 (due this month supposedly), it's been hard to track, anyone here knows which frame could be?

As well, any news regarding conversion and status of their 4 Airbus 330s due (854, 868, 958 & 964)?

g77
 
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ghost77
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:42 am

747classic wrote:
A contender for resurrection, after a visit to GMF ?
L/N 878, C/N 25266, 747-228F, N54VP, White Walker Holdings, SJH. July 22th 2021
Image

Original uploaded by Aviafan at flickr, see : https://www.flickr.com/photos/superspotter/51332408151
N54VP, since April 2021 owned by White Walker Holdings, has been stored at SJH since september 2014, previous registations : F-GCBN (Air france NTU), PH-MCN (Martinair),A6-MDG (MIDEX)
Delivered in September 1991, as one of the last assembled 747-200F'S, built after 128 747-400's and 25 747-400M's were assembled, so structurally a 747-400 frame with the 3 crew cockpit configuration
The aircraft seems in a more or less complete condition, without any robbed parts, however corrosion due non protected storage could be an issue, together with the availability of four servicable GE CF6-50E2 engines.


It might seem crazy, but seems like Estafeta (Mexico) is looking for getting a B747-200. That would be the first ever mexican 747 operator and maybe lasting nothing, but would be awesome to have it a few years until maybe a 773 comes after!

g77
 
eightcone
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:45 am

Royalbrunei757,

Thanks for the updates. Can confirm N858AM is now on the tarmac in DHN with her green door.

She is parked behind N102FF and they look like twins with white primer and the green cargo doors.
 
gdavis003
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:02 am

eightcone wrote:
Royalbrunei757,

Thanks for the updates. Can confirm N858AM is now on the tarmac in DHN with her green door.

She is parked behind N102FF and they look like twins with white primer and the green cargo doors.


Guessing N858AM will receive a fresh coat of paint then in Dothan and then will head off, likely to GSO for DHL/iAero, as sister ship N859AM did a few months back
 
wjcandee
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:55 am

ghost77 wrote:
Hello everyone!
MasAir it's getting its 4th B767 (due this month supposedly), it's been hard to track, anyone here knows which frame could be?


Well, if it's coming from CAM and it's a 767-300, the only thing it could be would be N396AN, and that would mean that IAI really pushed that frame out quickly. In the extremely-unlikely event that ABX was going to lose N226CY, I suppose that's a possibility as well. But given that ABX seems to be expanding and not contracting, I wouldn't put money on it. 226CY has been in TPA for over 3 months now, which is odd, and the only reason I point it out.

If it's coming from CAM and it's a 767-200, the options are greater.
SP-MRF came back to ILN from Sky Taxi on 9/11, but that could be for maintenance. I had them as adding another, not shrinking.
A9C-DHO (former N793AX) came back from DHX, and we're expecting a few lease returns from them, so that's one possibility for a re-lease to MAS.
A9C-DHJ has been stored at WAW since 2/28/21, and CAM recently reserved its old number N796AX for it to slide back into.
A9C-DHM (former N769AX) has been stored at WAW since 6/29/21, so another possibility.

Those are the obvious candidates from CAM, but it also could be coming from another lessor.
Last edited by wjcandee on Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:59 am

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
[Re: TF-AAJ] According to FR24, it has stopped at RFP and went into storage again.
https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... dic/rojwv3
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/tf-aaj


You can never believe these guys when they say something is "stored".

It's currently at 38000 feet on its way back to ANC on 10/4/21. https://flightaware.com/live/flight/TFAAJ
 
Flying-Tiger
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:45 am

Challenge Air Cargo is reported to have signed a MoU with IAI for four 767-300 and four 777-300ER conversions.

And lessor Avolon has contracted 30 (!!) A330-300P2F conversions with IAI.
https://us.acrofan.com/detail.php?number=540514
 
RoyalBrunei757
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:13 am

Flying-Tiger wrote:
Challenge Air Cargo is reported to have signed a MoU with IAI for four 767-300 and four 777-300ER conversions.

And lessor Avolon has contracted 30 (!!) A330-300P2F conversions with IAI.
https://us.acrofan.com/detail.php?number=540514

Looks like B77W/ A3330P2F conversion is now in full swing. Avolon itself owns and manages 54 A330-200/300. Was wondeirng with all the B77W and A330 conversion, will be market be saturated with widebody freigthers in near future? Pretty much dent A350F case.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Mon Oct 04, 2021 1:51 pm

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Flying-Tiger wrote:
Challenge Air Cargo is reported to have signed a MoU with IAI for four 767-300 and four 777-300ER conversions.

And lessor Avolon has contracted 30 (!!) A330-300P2F conversions with IAI.
https://us.acrofan.com/detail.php?number=540514

Looks like B77W/ A3330P2F conversion is now in full swing. Avolon itself owns and manages 54 A330-200/300. Was wondeirng with all the B77W and A330 conversion, will be market be saturated with widebody freigthers in near future? Pretty much dent A350F case.


And here we also see why IAI is setting up 777 and 767 conversion lines in 2 other locations: They're gonna need them!

Not sure what effect this will have on the A350F case though. Capacity is needed, and converted freighters, while great, have nowhere near the capability or service life of a factory freighter. This current binge of flying anything with wings to haul boxes will continue for another year (I see these issues continuing till next peak) but in the meantime, all this fleet, most of it pretty old metal, is no getting any younger.

747s for example, don't have a very high cycle LOV, and the ICN stopover on some Asia runs are plugging 1-2 more cycles per round trip on the already well used airframes. That can be an additional 50% increase per trip in cycle count. That's gonna catch up to a few airframes.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:36 pm

Spacepope wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Flying-Tiger wrote:
Challenge Air Cargo is reported to have signed a MoU with IAI for four 767-300 and four 777-300ER conversions.

And lessor Avolon has contracted 30 (!!) A330-300P2F conversions with IAI.
https://us.acrofan.com/detail.php?number=540514

Looks like B77W/ A3330P2F conversion is now in full swing. Avolon itself owns and manages 54 A330-200/300. Was wondeirng with all the B77W and A330 conversion, will be market be saturated with widebody freigthers in near future? Pretty much dent A350F case.

And here we also see why IAI is setting up 777 and 767 conversion lines in 2 other locations: They're gonna need them!

Not sure what effect this will have on the A350F case though. Capacity is needed, and converted freighters, while great, have nowhere near the capability or service life of a factory freighter. This current binge of flying anything with wings to haul boxes will continue for another year (I see these issues continuing till next peak) but in the meantime, all this fleet, most of it pretty old metal, is no getting any younger.

747s for example, don't have a very high cycle LOV, and the ICN stopover on some Asia runs are plugging 1-2 more cycles per round trip on the already well used airframes. That can be an additional 50% increase per trip in cycle count. That's gonna catch up to a few airframes.

I guess I'm more optimistic. 747s getting excessive cycles now is good news for 77W conversions in the future. 767 feedstock has pretty much been exhausted, A330 is the best choice to take its place. A330/77W being pushed out of passenger service by 787/A350 means lots more A330/77W available for conversion going forward. 744 conversions will go back to the desert in a year or two when the current surge passes. The general shift to e-commerce and the now evident shortcomings of harbors which serve as giant bottlenecks should all be good news for air freight going forward. I don't see the toothpaste going back into the tube.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:45 pm

The interesting part about the Avolon deal is the involvement of IAI.

ATSG, which is IAI's largest conversion customer, recently secured a buttload of conversion slots at EFW for the A330.

EFW, not IAI.

Plainly, at that time, IAI didn't have a comparable offering, or it would seem that ATSG would have seriously considered it. Perhaps because EFW already has a certified, flying solution?

In any event, interesting.
 
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747classic
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:49 pm

Spacepope wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Flying-Tiger wrote:
Challenge Air Cargo is reported to have signed a MoU with IAI for four 767-300 and four 777-300ER conversions.

And lessor Avolon has contracted 30 (!!) A330-300P2F conversions with IAI.
https://us.acrofan.com/detail.php?number=540514

Looks like B77W/ A3330P2F conversion is now in full swing. Avolon itself owns and manages 54 A330-200/300. Was wondeirng with all the B77W and A330 conversion, will be market be saturated with widebody freigthers in near future? Pretty much dent A350F case.


And here we also see why IAI is setting up 777 and 767 conversion lines in 2 other locations: They're gonna need them!

Not sure what effect this will have on the A350F case though. Capacity is needed, and converted freighters, while great, have nowhere near the capability or service life of a factory freighter. This current binge of flying anything with wings to haul boxes will continue for another year (I see these issues continuing till next peak) but in the meantime, all this fleet, most of it pretty old metal, is no getting any younger.

747s for example, don't have a very high cycle LOV, and the ICN stopover on some Asia runs are plugging 1-2 more cycles per round trip on the already well used airframes. That can be an additional 50% increase per trip in cycle count. That's gonna catch up to a few airframes.


I'm curious about the cycle LOV of the 777-300ERSF, seen the increased operating weights.

Note : the cycle LOV of the factory produced 777F is lowered to 37.500 from 60.000 cycles for all other 777 pax series (-200/-300/-200ER/-200LR and -300ER)
 
jbs2886
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:12 pm

wjcandee wrote:
The interesting part about the Avolon deal is the involvement of IAI.

ATSG, which is IAI's largest conversion customer, recently secured a buttload of conversion slots at EFW for the A330.

EFW, not IAI.

Plainly, at that time, IAI didn't have a comparable offering, or it would seem that ATSG would have seriously considered it. Perhaps because EFW already has a certified, flying solution?

In any event, interesting.


Perhaps timing? The IAI frames don't begin until 2025 and run through 2028. Also, the PR reads like the GECAS partnership with the 77W conversions - "The agreement will see Avolon partner with IAI on its STC development and take 30 A330-300 conversion slots..." So its possible ATSG wanted the aircraft and not the partnership expense for development.
 
MD80MKE
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:40 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
The interesting part about the Avolon deal is the involvement of IAI.

ATSG, which is IAI's largest conversion customer, recently secured a buttload of conversion slots at EFW for the A330.

EFW, not IAI.

Plainly, at that time, IAI didn't have a comparable offering, or it would seem that ATSG would have seriously considered it. Perhaps because EFW already has a certified, flying solution?

In any event, interesting.


Perhaps timing? The IAI frames don't begin until 2025 and run through 2028. Also, the PR reads like the GECAS partnership with the 77W conversions - "The agreement will see Avolon partner with IAI on its STC development and take 30 A330-300 conversion slots..." So its possible ATSG wanted the aircraft and not the partnership expense for development.


I think CAM need the A330s sooner than IAI can provide. Their 20 A330P2F order with EFW will run from mid 2023 to end 2025 as the 767 feedstock dwindles. After 2025, I see a possibility that CAM orders IAI version from 2025 and so on, but the question is how fast can IAI ramp up the A330 conversion. EFW will ramp up to 20+ per year by 2023 and 30+ per year by 2025, the conversion cost will go down with that much of a volume spread across lines in Shanghai, Mobile and Dresden. IAI will have to compete on pricing as well being a late-comer.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:19 pm

MD80MKE wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
The interesting part about the Avolon deal is the involvement of IAI.

ATSG, which is IAI's largest conversion customer, recently secured a buttload of conversion slots at EFW for the A330.

EFW, not IAI.

Plainly, at that time, IAI didn't have a comparable offering, or it would seem that ATSG would have seriously considered it. Perhaps because EFW already has a certified, flying solution?

In any event, interesting.


Perhaps timing? The IAI frames don't begin until 2025 and run through 2028. Also, the PR reads like the GECAS partnership with the 77W conversions - "The agreement will see Avolon partner with IAI on its STC development and take 30 A330-300 conversion slots..." So its possible ATSG wanted the aircraft and not the partnership expense for development.


I think CAM need the A330s sooner than IAI can provide. Their 20 A330P2F order with EFW will run from mid 2023 to end 2025 as the 767 feedstock dwindles. After 2025, I see a possibility that CAM orders IAI version from 2025 and so on, but the question is how fast can IAI ramp up the A330 conversion. EFW will ramp up to 20+ per year by 2023 and 30+ per year by 2025, the conversion cost will go down with that much of a volume spread across lines in Shanghai, Mobile and Dresden. IAI will have to compete on pricing as well being a late-comer.


I'm going to take a wait and see approach with EFW and their output claims. They have been at 12-14 per year output capability (on paper) for several years now and only have managed to hit 7 annual deliveries just recently. 30 seems to be an MBA's pipe dream, especially with how quickly *cough* the A321 conversions are rolling out.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:07 am

N751CX, an ATI 757 Combi that usually does BWI-THU, among others, embarked on a trip today that I had not seen run before with a Combi: PWM-RMS-UAB. It might be a one-time thing, or it might be a new cargo/pax route for them. Will be interesting to watch.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:16 am

RE: TF-AAJ. Flew ANC-ICN-HAN. We'll see where she goes next. I'm guessing CONUS again. Vietnam has had some difficulty getting some of its manufactured products into the supply chain recently, and I suspect that there are some customers who are happy to fly stuff out.
 
TUGMASTER
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:12 pm

Just watching the current airborne 200’s ply their trade .
AeroStan’s EX-47001 is just airborne from BKK with a SV call sign ,SV744, so presume heading to JED or RUH
USAF E4B, 74-0787 just landed at DYS after a flight from LNK, also saw 50125 land there last week.
And one of Fly Pro’s hidden 747’s ER-BAT is heading Eastbound from GRU having arrived at GRU from CKY & CMB.
 
eightcone
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:39 pm

New USA Jet livery on N832US. Lower case block letters on the tail.

Image
 
TUGMASTER
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Oct 06, 2021 2:14 pm

TUGMASTER wrote:
Just watching the current airborne 200’s ply their trade .
AeroStan’s EX-47001 is just airborne from BKK with a SV call sign ,SV744, so presume heading to JED or RUH
USAF E4B, 74-0787 just landed at DYS after a flight from LNK, also saw 50125 land there last week.
And one of Fly Pro’s hidden 747’s ER-BAT is heading Eastbound from GRU having arrived at GRU from CKY & CMB.


Further to this,
4L-GEN currently in the air inbound FRA
And a rare ship for you ,
EP-SIP currently inbound to somewhere in Iran, I guess THR, but tracking didn’t show up till in Iraq airspace, so I guess ex Syria.
Also, the transponder for N708SA is currently showing airborne at 19000ft above Arkansas .
I imagine this is totally wrong, and being used by another aircraft .
 
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GCT64
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Oct 06, 2021 2:28 pm

TUGMASTER wrote:
Also, the transponder for N708SA is currently showing airborne at 19000ft above Arkansas .
I imagine this is totally wrong, and being used by another aircraft .


N708SA is now a PA-31T based at Winnsboro, LA. I'm sure that was what you saw.
 
TUGMASTER
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Oct 06, 2021 2:43 pm

Ha ha… that makes perfect sense.
However, that Iranian 747 is nearly 44 years old.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:23 pm

TUGMASTER wrote:
Ha ha… that makes perfect sense.
However, that Iranian 747 is nearly 44 years old.


According to https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... air/eydkke

"Broken up Jan 2019 at MHV"
 
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747classic
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:48 pm

TUGMASTER wrote:
TUGMASTER wrote:
Just watching the current airborne 200’s ply their trade .
AeroStan’s EX-47001 is just airborne from BKK with a SV call sign ,SV744, so presume heading to JED or RUH
USAF E4B, 74-0787 just landed at DYS after a flight from LNK, also saw 50125 land there last week.
And one of Fly Pro’s hidden 747’s ER-BAT is heading Eastbound from GRU having arrived at GRU from CKY & CMB.


Further to this,
4L-GEN currently in the air inbound FRA
And a rare ship for you ,
EP-SIP currently inbound to somewhere in Iran, I guess THR, but tracking didn’t show up till in Iraq airspace, so I guess ex Syria.
Also, the transponder for N708SA is currently showing airborne at 19000ft above Arkansas .
I imagine this is totally wrong, and being used by another aircraft .


EP-SIP, one of the few remaining 742F aircraft with only a nose cargo door installed for main deck cargo loading.

EP-SIP, no SCD installed, THR, May 03th 2021
Image

 
HPRamper
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:10 pm

Forgot to note, FX now has an active ramp at PAER. First revenue flight was on the night of 10/4, 757 only for now. Layover during the day currently, December will see one turn per shift.
 
TUGMASTER
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:29 pm

That IIIAF 200 is Gorgeous.!

3 200’s currently plying their trade
ER-BAT just leaving Santiago for a fuel stop somewhere in West Africa,
And our regulars
4L-GEN out of FRA & EX 47001 out of SVO.

Long May they grace our air..!!
 
N27UADIESEL8
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:10 am

wjcandee wrote:
ghost77 wrote:
Hello everyone!
MasAir it's getting its 4th B767 (due this month supposedly), it's been hard to track, anyone here knows which frame could be?


Well, if it's coming from CAM and it's a 767-300, the only thing it could be would be N396AN, and that would mean that IAI really pushed that frame out quickly. In the extremely-unlikely event that ABX was going to lose N226CY, I suppose that's a possibility as well. But given that ABX seems to be expanding and not contracting, I wouldn't put money on it. 226CY has been in TPA for over 3 months now, which is odd, and the only reason I point it out.

If it's coming from CAM and it's a 767-200, the options are greater.
SP-MRF came back to ILN from Sky Taxi on 9/11, but that could be for maintenance. I had them as adding another, not shrinking.
A9C-DHO (former N793AX) came back from DHX, and we're expecting a few lease returns from them, so that's one possibility for a re-lease to MAS.
A9C-DHJ has been stored at WAW since 2/28/21, and CAM recently reserved its old number N796AX for it to slide back into.
A9C-DHM (former N769AX) has been stored at WAW since 6/29/21, so another possibility.

Those are the obvious candidates from CAM, but it also could be coming from another lessor.



N226CY is coming back to operate in the DHL Network. Undergoing HMV.
 
CX747
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:40 am

Our resident DC-8Fs have continued to hum along but today was a quieter day.

OB-2059-P: SDQ-MIA
OB-2158-T: Snoozing on the MIA ramp after a three leg journey on Oct 5th.

That usa jet Douglas tail from a few posts above sums up my feelings on DC/MD jets (Always been a Boeing guy)...Douglas/MD jets just don't die, they may fade away but they never die. God bless that time and place in Southern California and St. Louis. They probably couldn't build that awesomeness today as Califorinia would ban it, on the grounds of being offensive to Boeing & Airbus!

I'm 100% positive the boys at ATSG know more than me. Probably have some sniffs for people looking for freighters or maybe specifically A330s. I think they are attempting to push the market to the A330 and control that flow. I think the market demands the cowbell and more 767s. We shall have to see how that works out between now and 2025.

Looks as if Boeing is going to pull the trigger on the 777XF. Qatar/FEDEX/Lufthansa/DHL are said to be in the mix. If that occurs, will we begin to see early model 777Fs become available in 3-5 years? Could be an interesting competition. Used 777F vs IAI converted 777-300ERSF. I would also look for Atlas and Cargolux to jump on the 777XF. That "could" loosen up some older 747-400P2F types but we shall see. On the 777 front, a used 777F for sale is a mythical creature, like a unicorn. Sure Purple can snap one up, but mere mortals, no way. Plus, if Purple snapped it up, after it was being leased, was it ever really available?!?!

On Team 747, the Queens, in 200F or 400F form, get no rest. I recall Gann's comment on getting into cockpits with chairs still warm from the previous crew....holds very true today.
 
DLNZ
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:12 am

wjcandee wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
[Re: TF-AAJ] According to FR24, it has stopped at RFP and went into storage again.
https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... dic/rojwv3
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/tf-aaj


You can never believe these guys when they say something is "stored".

It's currently at 38000 feet on its way back to ANC on 10/4/21. https://flightaware.com/live/flight/TFAAJ


She seems to have slotted into a line of flying between RFD & HAN, via the usual stops in ICN & ANC. As has been mentioned previously, there's a huge amount of airlift coming out of Vietnam at the moment, it's probably an all hands on deck scenario for those who have capacity. Longtail are doing similar with preighter VQ-BZV.

There are also reports that JetOneX has acquired a second, ex-CI 744 pax. This time ex B-18211 now reg'd N373JX. Still in TPE, but interesting to see if she joins or follows sistership N337JX to VCV.

ghost77 wrote:
It might seem crazy, but seems like Estafeta (Mexico) is looking for getting a B747-200. That would be the first ever mexican 747 operator and maybe lasting nothing, but would be awesome to have it a few years until maybe a 773 comes after!


I don't know what is crazy anymore after the prolonged period we are seeing where nearly anything goes. There aren't many 742Fs available, and those in service are working hard. ER-BAU is for sale and freshly D-checked. If I was this Mexican firm and I really wanted a classic (and let's face it, who wouldn't?), I would be talking to Fly Pro Aerostan about acquiring and operating -BAU and pressing her into service. For something more modern, there are a few operators who could get them some interim 744 preighter capacity. Possibly some full freighters but everything is so tight.
 
RoyalBrunei757
Posts: 726
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:22 am

DLNZ wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
[Re: TF-AAJ] According to FR24, it has stopped at RFP and went into storage again.
https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... dic/rojwv3
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/tf-aaj


You can never believe these guys when they say something is "stored".

It's currently at 38000 feet on its way back to ANC on 10/4/21. https://flightaware.com/live/flight/TFAAJ


She seems to have slotted into a line of flying between RFD & HAN, via the usual stops in ICN & ANC. As has been mentioned previously, there's a huge amount of airlift coming out of Vietnam at the moment, it's probably an all hands on deck scenario for those who have capacity. Longtail are doing similar with preighter VQ-BZV.

There are also reports that JetOneX has acquired a second, ex-CI 744 pax. This time ex B-18211 now reg'd N373JX. Still in TPE, but interesting to see if she joins or follows sistership N337JX to VCV.

ghost77 wrote:
It might seem crazy, but seems like Estafeta (Mexico) is looking for getting a B747-200. That would be the first ever mexican 747 operator and maybe lasting nothing, but would be awesome to have it a few years until maybe a 773 comes after!


I don't know what is crazy anymore after the prolonged period we are seeing where nearly anything goes. There aren't many 742Fs available, and those in service are working hard. ER-BAU is for sale and freshly D-checked. If I was this Mexican firm and I really wanted a classic (and let's face it, who wouldn't?), I would be talking to Fly Pro Aerostan about acquiring and operating -BAU and pressing her into service. For something more modern, there are a few operators who could get them some interim 744 preighter capacity. Possibly some full freighters but everything is so tight.

Thank you wjcandee and DLNZ for the update. Glad to see TF-AAJ back in service rather than hopping over to somewhere else for storage again. Glad to see another B744 being picked up. I wonder if JetX is the buyer behind TG's 10 B744s. They have mentioned all are sold, perhaps to a single party, waiting for government approval now.
 
DLNZ
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:58 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:27 am

I have been keeping an eye on AeroTransCargo's newest machine, ER-BBE, and her lack of movement since exiting HMV from our friends at GMF AeroAsia back in May. She has been parked at LGG ever since. For those who haven't followed, she is the ex-TG HS-TGH, which was in long term storage at UTP.

It now looks like (and her decals support this) she is going to work out of Romania, being re-registered YR-FSA. The first 747 on the Romanian registry apparently.
 
jjbiv
Posts: 1328
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2001 10:58 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:44 am

HPRamper wrote:
Forgot to note, FX now has an active ramp at PAER. First revenue flight was on the night of 10/4, 757 only for now. Layover during the day currently, December will see one turn per shift.

What airport is this? I don't see PAER listed as an airport code in the usual places. I see some references to Merrill Pass West but am not familiar with that airport. Thank you!
 
jjbiv
Posts: 1328
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2001 10:58 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:54 am

ghost77 wrote:
747classic wrote:
A contender for resurrection, after a visit to GMF ?
L/N 878, C/N 25266, 747-228F, N54VP, White Walker Holdings, SJH. July 22th 2021
Image

Original uploaded by Aviafan at flickr, see : https://www.flickr.com/photos/superspotter/51332408151
N54VP, since April 2021 owned by White Walker Holdings, has been stored at SJH since september 2014, previous registations : F-GCBN (Air france NTU), PH-MCN (Martinair),A6-MDG (MIDEX)
Delivered in September 1991, as one of the last assembled 747-200F'S, built after 128 747-400's and 25 747-400M's were assembled, so structurally a 747-400 frame with the 3 crew cockpit configuration
The aircraft seems in a more or less complete condition, without any robbed parts, however corrosion due non protected storage could be an issue, together with the availability of four servicable GE CF6-50E2 engines.


It might seem crazy, but seems like Estafeta (Mexico) is looking for getting a B747-200. That would be the first ever mexican 747 operator and maybe lasting nothing, but would be awesome to have it a few years until maybe a 773 comes after!

g77

Why would Estafeta need a 747? They are an integrator, like FedEx, UPS and DHL, and their current fleet consists of 737 classics and CRJ-200s. I'd be very surprised to see this come to pass.
 
DLNZ
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:58 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 07, 2021 5:00 am

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Thank you wjcandee and DLNZ for the update. Glad to see TF-AAJ back in service rather than hopping over to somewhere else for storage again. Glad to see another B744 being picked up. I wonder if JetX is the buyer behind TG's 10 B744s. They have mentioned all are sold, perhaps to a single party, waiting for government approval now.


That's an interesting pick up. It's hard to see what 10 pax 744s would be used for quite frankly. Other posters on this forum who I respect suggest that it's unlikely there will be any more 744 P2F full conversions due to the IAI line being used to tool up for the 777-300ERSF programme. There is a short term use for them as preighters perhaps, so perhaps the likely very low acquisition cost may make that feasible. Rising fuel price environment will be a concern also, +120% YoY.
https://www.iata.org/en/publications/ec ... l-monitor/
 
travaz
Posts: 1141
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 1:03 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 07, 2021 5:04 am

jjbiv wrote:
HPRamper wrote:
Forgot to note, FX now has an active ramp at PAER. First revenue flight was on the night of 10/4, 757 only for now. Layover during the day currently, December will see one turn per shift.

What airport is this? I don't see PAER listed as an airport code in the usual places. I see some references to Merrill Pass West but am not familiar with that airport. Thank you!

I think he is talking about PAE
https://newsroom.fedex.com/newsroom/fed ... le-market/
 
gdavis003
Topic Author
Posts: 1152
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:59 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 07, 2021 5:32 am

DLNZ wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
[Re: TF-AAJ] According to FR24, it has stopped at RFP and went into storage again.
https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... dic/rojwv3
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/tf-aaj


You can never believe these guys when they say something is "stored".

It's currently at 38000 feet on its way back to ANC on 10/4/21. https://flightaware.com/live/flight/TFAAJ


She seems to have slotted into a line of flying between RFD & HAN, via the usual stops in ICN & ANC. As has been mentioned previously, there's a huge amount of airlift coming out of Vietnam at the moment, it's probably an all hands on deck scenario for those who have capacity. Longtail are doing similar with preighter VQ-BZV.

There are also reports that JetOneX has acquired a second, ex-CI 744 pax. This time ex B-18211 now reg'd N373JX. Still in TPE, but interesting to see if she joins or follows sistership N337JX to VCV.


I was searching around today to try to find some more footage on the loading process of a preighter, specifically these 747 and A340 preighters of companies like JetOneX and the like, which seem to be growing in number these days, but to no avail. Seems like it would be rather time-consuming to load items onto the main deck without a cargo door, presume a lot is carried in the belly. Then, I do wonder about the economics of it all if the bulk of the payload is only able to be carried in the belly, but again, it seems like they’re only growing in number. Complex
 
Cardude2
Posts: 355
Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 1:55 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 07, 2021 5:54 am

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
DLNZ wrote:
wjcandee wrote:

You can never believe these guys when they say something is "stored".

It's currently at 38000 feet on its way back to ANC on 10/4/21. https://flightaware.com/live/flight/TFAAJ


She seems to have slotted into a line of flying between RFD & HAN, via the usual stops in ICN & ANC. As has been mentioned previously, there's a huge amount of airlift coming out of Vietnam at the moment, it's probably an all hands on deck scenario for those who have capacity. Longtail are doing similar with preighter VQ-BZV.

There are also reports that JetOneX has acquired a second, ex-CI 744 pax. This time ex B-18211 now reg'd N373JX. Still in TPE, but interesting to see if she joins or follows sistership N337JX to VCV.

ghost77 wrote:
It might seem crazy, but seems like Estafeta (Mexico) is looking for getting a B747-200. That would be the first ever mexican 747 operator and maybe lasting nothing, but would be awesome to have it a few years until maybe a 773 comes after!


I don't know what is crazy anymore after the prolonged period we are seeing where nearly anything goes. There aren't many 742Fs available, and those in service are working hard. ER-BAU is for sale and freshly D-checked. If I was this Mexican firm and I really wanted a classic (and let's face it, who wouldn't?), I would be talking to Fly Pro Aerostan about acquiring and operating -BAU and pressing her into service. For something more modern, there are a few operators who could get them some interim 744 preighter capacity. Possibly some full freighters but everything is so tight.

Thank you wjcandee and DLNZ for the update. Glad to see TF-AAJ back in service rather than hopping over to somewhere else for storage again. Glad to see another B744 being picked up. I wonder if JetX is the buyer behind TG's 10 B744s. They have mentioned all are sold, perhaps to a single party, waiting for government approval now.


Im sorry I'm a bit new but is tg Thai airways? If it Is I know one of the possible people that hinted a year ago that they would by those aircraft is avatar. Also there are more than just one conversion company that can convert 744 pax to phreighter.
 
LTEN11
Posts: 316
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:09 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 07, 2021 5:56 am

DLNZ wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Thank you wjcandee and DLNZ for the update. Glad to see TF-AAJ back in service rather than hopping over to somewhere else for storage again. Glad to see another B744 being picked up. I wonder if JetX is the buyer behind TG's 10 B744s. They have mentioned all are sold, perhaps to a single party, waiting for government approval now.


That's an interesting pick up. It's hard to see what 10 pax 744s would be used for quite frankly. Other posters on this forum who I respect suggest that it's unlikely there will be any more 744 P2F full conversions due to the IAI line being used to tool up for the 777-300ERSF programme. There is a short term use for them as preighters perhaps, so perhaps the likely very low acquisition cost may make that feasible. Rising fuel price environment will be a concern also, +120% YoY.
https://www.iata.org/en/publications/ec ... l-monitor/


I think these 747's have been purchased for their engines and for the spares market. The G.E. engines would be prized for 767 freighters.
 
RoyalBrunei757
Posts: 726
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:02 am

Cardude2 wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
DLNZ wrote:

She seems to have slotted into a line of flying between RFD & HAN, via the usual stops in ICN & ANC. As has been mentioned previously, there's a huge amount of airlift coming out of Vietnam at the moment, it's probably an all hands on deck scenario for those who have capacity. Longtail are doing similar with preighter VQ-BZV.

There are also reports that JetOneX has acquired a second, ex-CI 744 pax. This time ex B-18211 now reg'd N373JX. Still in TPE, but interesting to see if she joins or follows sistership N337JX to VCV.



I don't know what is crazy anymore after the prolonged period we are seeing where nearly anything goes. There aren't many 742Fs available, and those in service are working hard. ER-BAU is for sale and freshly D-checked. If I was this Mexican firm and I really wanted a classic (and let's face it, who wouldn't?), I would be talking to Fly Pro Aerostan about acquiring and operating -BAU and pressing her into service. For something more modern, there are a few operators who could get them some interim 744 preighter capacity. Possibly some full freighters but everything is so tight.

Thank you wjcandee and DLNZ for the update. Glad to see TF-AAJ back in service rather than hopping over to somewhere else for storage again. Glad to see another B744 being picked up. I wonder if JetX is the buyer behind TG's 10 B744s. They have mentioned all are sold, perhaps to a single party, waiting for government approval now.


Im sorry I'm a bit new but is tg Thai airways? If it Is I know one of the possible people that hinted a year ago that they would by those aircraft is avatar. Also there are more than just one conversion company that can convert 744 pax to phreighter.

Yes, TG is Thai Airways, in last quarter briefings, they have mentioned they have found buyer for the ten B744. Currently the owner identity remains unknown. On the conversation company, I think only few companies used to do it. IAI does for BDSF, Taikoo Aircraft Engineering Co. Ltd/ HAECO in Xiamen, KAL Aerospace in Seoul, SIA Engineering Company in Singapore and GAMECO in Beijing did it for BCF. However all these conversion lines are currently fully booked for B737NG, B763, and B77W conversion. They may not have the certificate anymore to do the conversion too.
 
RoyalBrunei757
Posts: 726
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:04 am

LTEN11 wrote:
DLNZ wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Thank you wjcandee and DLNZ for the update. Glad to see TF-AAJ back in service rather than hopping over to somewhere else for storage again. Glad to see another B744 being picked up. I wonder if JetX is the buyer behind TG's 10 B744s. They have mentioned all are sold, perhaps to a single party, waiting for government approval now.


That's an interesting pick up. It's hard to see what 10 pax 744s would be used for quite frankly. Other posters on this forum who I respect suggest that it's unlikely there will be any more 744 P2F full conversions due to the IAI line being used to tool up for the 777-300ERSF programme. There is a short term use for them as preighters perhaps, so perhaps the likely very low acquisition cost may make that feasible. Rising fuel price environment will be a concern also, +120% YoY.
https://www.iata.org/en/publications/ec ... l-monitor/


I think these 747's have been purchased for their engines and for the spares market. The G.E. engines would be prized for 767 freighters.

Honest question here, can 747 GE engines be used for 767?
 
jbs2886
Posts: 3505
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:04 am

Cardude2 wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
DLNZ wrote:

She seems to have slotted into a line of flying between RFD & HAN, via the usual stops in ICN & ANC. As has been mentioned previously, there's a huge amount of airlift coming out of Vietnam at the moment, it's probably an all hands on deck scenario for those who have capacity. Longtail are doing similar with preighter VQ-BZV.

There are also reports that JetOneX has acquired a second, ex-CI 744 pax. This time ex B-18211 now reg'd N373JX. Still in TPE, but interesting to see if she joins or follows sistership N337JX to VCV.



I don't know what is crazy anymore after the prolonged period we are seeing where nearly anything goes. There aren't many 742Fs available, and those in service are working hard. ER-BAU is for sale and freshly D-checked. If I was this Mexican firm and I really wanted a classic (and let's face it, who wouldn't?), I would be talking to Fly Pro Aerostan about acquiring and operating -BAU and pressing her into service. For something more modern, there are a few operators who could get them some interim 744 preighter capacity. Possibly some full freighters but everything is so tight.

Thank you wjcandee and DLNZ for the update. Glad to see TF-AAJ back in service rather than hopping over to somewhere else for storage again. Glad to see another B744 being picked up. I wonder if JetX is the buyer behind TG's 10 B744s. They have mentioned all are sold, perhaps to a single party, waiting for government approval now.


Im sorry I'm a bit new but is tg Thai airways? If it Is I know one of the possible people that hinted a year ago that they would by those aircraft is avatar. Also there are more than just one conversion company that can convert 744 pax to phreighter.


There aren’t really “conversions” for “phreighter” - that’s really just pulling out the passenger interior. Full conversions are significant.
 
LTEN11
Posts: 316
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:09 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:08 am

gdavis003 wrote:
DLNZ wrote:
wjcandee wrote:

You can never believe these guys when they say something is "stored".

It's currently at 38000 feet on its way back to ANC on 10/4/21. https://flightaware.com/live/flight/TFAAJ


She seems to have slotted into a line of flying between RFD & HAN, via the usual stops in ICN & ANC. As has been mentioned previously, there's a huge amount of airlift coming out of Vietnam at the moment, it's probably an all hands on deck scenario for those who have capacity. Longtail are doing similar with preighter VQ-BZV.

There are also reports that JetOneX has acquired a second, ex-CI 744 pax. This time ex B-18211 now reg'd N373JX. Still in TPE, but interesting to see if she joins or follows sistership N337JX to VCV.


I was searching around today to try to find some more footage on the loading process of a preighter, specifically these 747 and A340 preighters of companies like JetOneX and the like, which seem to be growing in number these days, but to no avail. Seems like it would be rather time-consuming to load items onto the main deck without a cargo door, presume a lot is carried in the belly. Then, I do wonder about the economics of it all if the bulk of the payload is only able to be carried in the belly, but again, it seems like they’re only growing in number. Complex


Loading the cabin of a preighter would be a major pain in the backside, but the economics must be working otherwise the practice would've stopped. The good thing about what is mostly carried in the cabin is that it is usually fairly light, but while the boc may only weigh 10 kgs, it may volume out to 20 kgs and that's what the shipper will get charged for. That's the only good thing about fluffy cargo and that volume weight could well be making the difference between profit and loss on each flight.
 
jeffrey0032j
Posts: 1083
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:11 pm

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:15 am

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
LTEN11 wrote:
DLNZ wrote:

That's an interesting pick up. It's hard to see what 10 pax 744s would be used for quite frankly. Other posters on this forum who I respect suggest that it's unlikely there will be any more 744 P2F full conversions due to the IAI line being used to tool up for the 777-300ERSF programme. There is a short term use for them as preighters perhaps, so perhaps the likely very low acquisition cost may make that feasible. Rising fuel price environment will be a concern also, +120% YoY.
https://www.iata.org/en/publications/ec ... l-monitor/


I think these 747's have been purchased for their engines and for the spares market. The G.E. engines would be prized for 767 freighters.

Honest question here, can 747 GE engines be used for 767?

Not just the GEs, even the PWs and RR can be used on the 767s (which must be fitted with the same engine type). This was something BA did, they swapped their RR engines on some of their 747s and 767s towards the end of their service lives.
 
LTEN11
Posts: 316
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:09 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:23 am

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
LTEN11 wrote:
DLNZ wrote:

That's an interesting pick up. It's hard to see what 10 pax 744s would be used for quite frankly. Other posters on this forum who I respect suggest that it's unlikely there will be any more 744 P2F full conversions due to the IAI line being used to tool up for the 777-300ERSF programme. There is a short term use for them as preighters perhaps, so perhaps the likely very low acquisition cost may make that feasible. Rising fuel price environment will be a concern also, +120% YoY.
https://www.iata.org/en/publications/ec ... l-monitor/


I think these 747's have been purchased for their engines and for the spares market. The G.E. engines would be prized for 767 freighters.

Honest question here, can 747 GE engines be used for 767?


It was reported when G.E. bought the last 6 QF 747's that besides keeping one as a test bed, the wanted the engines for 767's. Now I honestly don't know if it is indeed possible, or if that was even G.E. intent, they may have had a customer for other 747's, but that's what the reports at the time said.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 10975
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:39 am

This is a great discussion!

As to the Vietnam stuff, I was thinking that one might not even bother to carry much in the cabin. One thing that Vietnam produces a lot of is textiles. Textiles are heavy. Just as a thought, there are kinds of heavy cargo that when maxing out the belly space in a 747 are going to be considered to be a substantial load. Of course, unless they're filling the belly with osmium, they're not taking off at max weight, but it may be that for certain cargo, just maxing out the belly may be enough to make the trip worthwhile to a shipper.
 
JayinKitsap
Posts: 2692
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:55 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:54 am

jeffrey0032j wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
LTEN11 wrote:

I think these 747's have been purchased for their engines and for the spares market. The G.E. engines would be prized for 767 freighters.

Honest question here, can 747 GE engines be used for 767?

Not just the GEs, even the PWs and RR can be used on the 767s (which must be fitted with the same engine type). This was something BA did, they swapped their RR engines on some of their 747s and 767s towards the end of their service lives.


I recall from back when the 748 was coming to fruition, that the 747 and 767 engines were done so the engines were interchangeable, that allowed for far fewer spares being needed for an airline that flew both. The GE's happen to be the one with the largest common engine fleet between the two planes.
 
User avatar
747classic
Posts: 4043
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:13 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:40 am

Regarding the interchange of the GE CF6-80C2 engines from the 744 to 767 and visa versa, the following :
Only FADEC equipped engines (with the sufffix -F) can be interchanged, after some (minor) engine modifications, depending rating change required.
The non-FADEC engines, that are installed at early built 767 aircraft cannot be used at the 744.
FADEC engines, installed at the 744 cannot be used at early built 767's. Only after expensive wire and pwr control modifications, this would be possible..
 
User avatar
Spacepope
Posts: 5553
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:49 pm

Also the MD-11 engines are interchangeable between the 767 and 747. Delta bought 6 MD-11F years ago just to supply engines for their 767 fleet. This was of course pre-COVID when MD-11Fs were red headed stepchildren and some of these airframes were recently mentioned upthread in a resurrection discussion. This batch included the former Aeroflot and Ethiopian freighters.
 
User avatar
DL757NYC
Posts: 433
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:07 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:39 pm

FlapOperator wrote:
747classic wrote:
AFAIK three PW powered MD11F's are part of the five to be activated FedEx MD11's
- N578FE, already activated
- N521FE, at Singapore for HMV
- N522FE, still at VCV

The other two are TBD ex LH- birds, both are GE powered.


Combined with likely 12-20 MD-10s sticking around, that's a significant tri-jet fleet into the next 7-10 years at least.


What about the LH MD-11’s from recent photos they are wrapped with their engines still on. It wouldn’t seem like much work to get them online as opposed to MD-11’s stores for 5 years.

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