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gdavis003
Topic Author
Posts: 1129
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:59 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:29 pm

eightcone wrote:
gdavis003 wrote:
gdavis003 wrote:
N23FF is headed to DHN today. En route from SLW to LRD to clear customs, then headed to DHN. This is one of the 737-400s due to Aeronaves, so presumably N102FF is headed out soon to free up a spot. It’s been there quite a while, but DHN has much more space to keep an aircraft before conversion than some of our other facilities that we follow so might not indicate much about the status about 102FF. 31 year old 737-400s headed off to conversion, you love to see it!


Like clockwork. Looks like the same crew, probably, is taking N102FF back to Saltillo today. This will probably be the first 737-400 that Aeronaves puts into service. They’re really bustling with work right now
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N102FF




You beat me to it man, lol, props for being vigilant. I was going to roll that into this update.

I'm going to have to break down and order a Rebel T7 with a 250mm or something. iPhone photos aren't cutting it.

So N102FF was delivered, I'm curious if is was painted in the last few days it was here or if it went to SLW green and white?

N23FF was parked in the alley after arrival by the Maddogs '36 and '37.

The painted USA JET '32 was moved to the back of the big hanger where N102FF had been sitting. This might be the QC and final touchwork spot?

I saw '33 in the medium hanger, still in delta livery. Vexingly, the hanger wasn't open enough to tell if the SCD work has begun.

'35 is still right outside '33s hanger and I haven't seen '34 in two weeks. I'm assuming with '32 being nearly done, '33 or '34 must be ready to rotate to the next step and that's why '35 is near there.

N444HE was moved out of her hanger and parked in the "storage area" of the tarmac. She is sitting next to another newcomer, B738 2-GATE, which is in Summer airways livery. Flightaware shows it coming Thailand-Russia-ANC-?-DHN. 2004 vintage, owned by Tokyo Century Corp. https://flightaware.com/live/flight/2GATE

Lastly, I finally saw N616AJ, she's in the big hanger and her port side looked rough. Hard to tell with shadows and distance but might have been her windows out and bracing in place for the SCD cut?

Image
Image
Image
Image


Thanks for the report. New USA Jet livery looks quite nice, although it feels far too modern for a carrier with an exclusively MD/DC fleet! I actually have the JetTip alerts for DHN activated, since I’m not too far from the facility. Helps to make sure I don’t miss any movements at the facility, as it’s fun to watch what goes on there. Always enjoy taking a quick detour by it on the way down to the beach. It’s quite a neat operation.
 
gdavis003
Topic Author
Posts: 1129
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:59 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:38 am

Was searching through Frontera Flight Holdings' acquisitions today after seeing that N102FF left DHN today, and I noticed that they now have 9 737 classics registered to them, all acquired within the last year. Snatching up whatever is available. Of course, it's likely that not all of these will undergo conversion, but one has now finished conversion, another one is entering conversion, and two were converted before purchase. Quite the undertaking
 
RoyalBrunei757
Posts: 698
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:49 am

LATAM B767-316ER CC-CXE MSN 35696/ Line 968 is now heading to Singapore for conversion

https://twitter.com/JTTsteve/status/1448054608136482818

On the fleet movement update:
Boeing 737 -8F2(F) 29788 791 TF-BBP BlueBird Nordic at KUN 10oct21 with full tail cs & titl prior delivery ex LY-FBA
Boeing 737 -8Q8 30694 1863 HL8295 Jeju Air ferried 07oct2 GMP-TSN, for freighter cnversion ex VT-SJG
Boeing 737 -804 32904 1302 OY-JZL ASL Airlines Belgium ferried 01/09-11oct21 CPH-QLA-OVB prior freighter conversion, reg N329BB res ex SE-DZV
Boeing 737 -8AS(F) 33718 1311 VQ-BFP Atran delivery 11-12oct21 PVG-ICN-NQZ ex N242GE
Boeing 737 -8AS 33813 1617 2-GATE Tokyo Century Aviation Capital ferried 08-09oct21 UTP-KHV-ANC-DHN, for freighter cconversion ex HS-TSS
Boeing 737 -8EH(F) 34267 2311 9M- Kargo Express at TNA11oct21, N-reg, full cs prior delivery ex N248GE
Boeing 737 -8AS(F) 35553 2279 OE-IWF ASL Airlines Belgium delivery 12oct21 TNA-OVB-OSR-SNN, for paint ex EI-DPX
Boeing 757 -204 28836 861 N28836 AerCap ferried 07oct21 MZJ-HNL prior freighter conversion ex G-BYAY
Boeing 757 -28A(F) 33099 1028 B-220Z SF Airlines delivery 08oct21 CTU-SZX ex N202DP
Boeing 767 -333 25586 599 N898CU Cargo Aircraft Management delivery 07oct21 MZJ-ILN, prior freigther conversion ex C-FMWV
Boeing 767 -316 41996 1052 PT-MOE Latam Brasil ferried 11oct21 SCL-BRO prior freighter conversion ex CC-BDO
Boeing 777 -212 28532 407 N822KW Eastern Airlines Cargoo in full cs at MCI 06oct21 after paint ex VP-BDR
Source: https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb. ... av4&page=4
Last edited by RoyalBrunei757 on Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
RoyalBrunei757
Posts: 698
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:58 am

wjcandee wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Thank you to all the contributors on this thread..


Thank YOU for your active participation, including the great movement summary. I agree the MD11 would be fun to catch before she goes to Western Global.

Thank you for your kind words. Glad to be part of this aviation community, looking forward to contribute more.
 
RoyalBrunei757
Posts: 698
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:06 am

Eastern Air Cargo is getting their first B777-212ER makeshift freighter, taking up mostly Singapore Airlines B772ER, and Emirates B773.

First photo is up: https://www.facebook.com/PA-Coastal-Air ... 948760485/

There is a Twitter thread on the subject: https://twitter.com/JetTipNet/status/14 ... 3444090880
Jet Midwest has reserved 14 registration reserved for Eastern's B777 fleet.
1. N806KW
2. N807KW
3. N808KW
4. N809KW
5. N810KW
6. N811KW
7. N813KW
8. N814KW
9. N815KW
10. N817KW
11. N819KW
12. N820KW
13. N821KW
14. N822KW (refer fleet list below)

Current Eastern/Alta Airlines Holdings B777 fleet as per airfleets.net:
1. N508BC 30873 / 431 Boeing 777-212(ER) 28 Jul 2021 Stored 18.7 Years
2. N519BC 32321 / 447 Boeing 777-212(ER) 27 Jul 2021 Stored 18.3 Years
3. N785BC 33373 / 487 Boeing 777-212(ER) 27 Jul 2021 Stored 17.2 Years
4. N822KW 28532 / 407 Boeing 777-212(ER) 30 Aug 2021 Stored 19.4 Years
5. N825KW 32318 / 441 Boeing 777-212(ER) 28 Aug 2021 Stored 18.4 Years
6. N868BC 32316 / 412 Boeing 777-212(ER) 27 Jul 2021 Stored 19.2 Years
7. N771KW 28530 / 390 Boeing 777-212(ER) 29 May 2020 Parked 19.6 Years
8. N783KW 33683 / 522 Boeing 777-2U8(ER) 15 Oct 2020 Parked 16.3 Years
9. N821JT 28410 / 78 Boeing 777-2H6(ER) 15 Oct 2020 Parked 24.3 Years
10. N805KW 29395 / 326 Boeing 777-31H 19 Feb 2021 Stored MCI 20.7 Years
 
gdavis003
Topic Author
Posts: 1129
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:59 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:49 pm

Haven't talked about Asia Pacific in quite some time, so I did some checking to see what their fleet of 4 757s was up to.

N688SL: hasn't done a revenue flight since the end of August, did two test flights at HNL in early September, ferried to MCI on 9/10 for mx, has its transponder on currently at MCI
N757QM: seems to be operating smoothly at the moment, based in GUM and operating to HNL, MAJ, NRT, and TKK
N888LT: has been operating GUM-HNL-GUM the last few days, has been to HKG, MAJ and PPG as well in recent weeks
N922TS: newest of the fleet but broken at HNL currently? has been there for three days, and they don't usually rest that long, was on USPS duty between GSO and ONT for quite a long time but ferried back to Pacific duty about a week and a half ago

They haven't operated the ONT-GSO run since October 2nd, which is quite interesting as we are getting closer to peak. Aloha is still running it with a 737-300, but it will be interesting to see if someone else takes over that or if Asia Pacific can get another 757 back on it. Maybe N688SL will take over it after mx at MCI. Hopefully, it will finish up work at MCI soon before peak
 
wjcandee
Posts: 10953
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:31 pm

gdavis003 wrote:
Haven't talked about Asia Pacific in quite some time, so I did some checking to see what their fleet of 4 757s was up to....


Great work! I was wondering about them the other day, but didn't check.
 
RoyalBrunei757
Posts: 698
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:53 pm

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
LATAM B767-316ER CC-CXE MSN 35696/ Line 968 is now heading to Singapore for conversion

https://twitter.com/JTTsteve/status/1448054608136482818

On the fleet movement update:
Boeing 737 -8F2(F) 29788 791 TF-BBP BlueBird Nordic at KUN 10oct21 with full tail cs & titl prior delivery ex LY-FBA
Boeing 737 -8Q8 30694 1863 HL8295 Jeju Air ferried 07oct2 GMP-TSN, for freighter cnversion ex VT-SJG
Boeing 737 -804 32904 1302 OY-JZL ASL Airlines Belgium ferried 01/09-11oct21 CPH-QLA-OVB prior freighter conversion, reg N329BB res ex SE-DZV
Boeing 737 -8AS(F) 33718 1311 VQ-BFP Atran delivery 11-12oct21 PVG-ICN-NQZ ex N242GE
Boeing 737 -8AS 33813 1617 2-GATE Tokyo Century Aviation Capital ferried 08-09oct21 UTP-KHV-ANC-DHN, for freighter cconversion ex HS-TSS
Boeing 737 -8EH(F) 34267 2311 9M- Kargo Express at TNA11oct21, N-reg, full cs prior delivery ex N248GE
Boeing 737 -8AS(F) 35553 2279 OE-IWF ASL Airlines Belgium delivery 12oct21 TNA-OVB-OSR-SNN, for paint ex EI-DPX
Boeing 757 -204 28836 861 N28836 AerCap ferried 07oct21 MZJ-HNL prior freighter conversion ex G-BYAY
Boeing 757 -28A(F) 33099 1028 B-220Z SF Airlines delivery 08oct21 CTU-SZX ex N202DP
Boeing 767 -333 25586 599 N898CU Cargo Aircraft Management delivery 07oct21 MZJ-ILN, prior freigther conversion ex C-FMWV
Boeing 767 -316 41996 1052 PT-MOE Latam Brasil ferried 11oct21 SCL-BRO prior freighter conversion ex CC-BDO
Boeing 777 -212 28532 407 N822KW Eastern Airlines Cargoo in full cs at MCI 06oct21 after paint ex VP-BDR
Source: https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb. ... av4&page=4


Some additional updates:
Boeing 737 -46J(F) 27213 2585 G-CKUZ West Atlantic UK in svc at EMA 11oct21 with HM Coastguard titl & logo, basic all white ex N120WF
Boeing 737 -476(F) 28150 2773 XA- Aeronavees TSM delivery 12oct21 DHN-SLW, N-reg ex N102FF
Boeing 767 -316 35696 968 CC-CXE Latam Chile ferried 12oct21 MIA-ANC prior freighter conversion ex HC-CKY
Boeing 777 -36N 32788 532 OE-ILS GECAS ferried 13oct21 CQM-TLV for freighter conversion ex A6-EBE
MD Douglas MD-11 (F) 48476 510 N522FE FedEx ferried 08-10oct21 VCV-HNL-QPG after sorage prior rtn to svc ex N805DE
Source: https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb. ... av4&page=2
 
wjcandee
Posts: 10953
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:43 pm

Cool that IAI is taking in another 777 to convert! Glad to see them moving on it!
 
User avatar
Spacepope
Posts: 5546
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:23 am

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
LATAM B767-316ER CC-CXE MSN 35696/ Line 968 is now heading to Singapore for conversion

https://twitter.com/JTTsteve/status/1448054608136482818

On the fleet movement update:
Boeing 737 -8F2(F) 29788 791 TF-BBP BlueBird Nordic at KUN 10oct21 with full tail cs & titl prior delivery ex LY-FBA
Boeing 737 -8Q8 30694 1863 HL8295 Jeju Air ferried 07oct2 GMP-TSN, for freighter cnversion ex VT-SJG
Boeing 737 -804 32904 1302 OY-JZL ASL Airlines Belgium ferried 01/09-11oct21 CPH-QLA-OVB prior freighter conversion, reg N329BB res ex SE-DZV
Boeing 737 -8AS(F) 33718 1311 VQ-BFP Atran delivery 11-12oct21 PVG-ICN-NQZ ex N242GE
Boeing 737 -8AS 33813 1617 2-GATE Tokyo Century Aviation Capital ferried 08-09oct21 UTP-KHV-ANC-DHN, for freighter cconversion ex HS-TSS
Boeing 737 -8EH(F) 34267 2311 9M- Kargo Express at TNA11oct21, N-reg, full cs prior delivery ex N248GE
Boeing 737 -8AS(F) 35553 2279 OE-IWF ASL Airlines Belgium delivery 12oct21 TNA-OVB-OSR-SNN, for paint ex EI-DPX
Boeing 757 -204 28836 861 N28836 AerCap ferried 07oct21 MZJ-HNL prior freighter conversion ex G-BYAY
Boeing 757 -28A(F) 33099 1028 B-220Z SF Airlines delivery 08oct21 CTU-SZX ex N202DP
Boeing 767 -333 25586 599 N898CU Cargo Aircraft Management delivery 07oct21 MZJ-ILN, prior freigther conversion ex C-FMWV
Boeing 767 -316 41996 1052 PT-MOE Latam Brasil ferried 11oct21 SCL-BRO prior freighter conversion ex CC-BDO
Boeing 777 -212 28532 407 N822KW Eastern Airlines Cargoo in full cs at MCI 06oct21 after paint ex VP-BDR
Source: https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb. ... av4&page=4


Another massive update with Airbus conversions conspicuously absent. I figured with several companies offering the A321 conversion that output would be much higher.
 
RoyalBrunei757
Posts: 698
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:18 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:42 am

Spacepope wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
LATAM B767-316ER CC-CXE MSN 35696/ Line 968 is now heading to Singapore for conversion

https://twitter.com/JTTsteve/status/1448054608136482818

On the fleet movement update:
Boeing 737 -8F2(F) 29788 791 TF-BBP BlueBird Nordic at KUN 10oct21 with full tail cs & titl prior delivery ex LY-FBA
Boeing 737 -8Q8 30694 1863 HL8295 Jeju Air ferried 07oct2 GMP-TSN, for freighter cnversion ex VT-SJG
Boeing 737 -804 32904 1302 OY-JZL ASL Airlines Belgium ferried 01/09-11oct21 CPH-QLA-OVB prior freighter conversion, reg N329BB res ex SE-DZV
Boeing 737 -8AS(F) 33718 1311 VQ-BFP Atran delivery 11-12oct21 PVG-ICN-NQZ ex N242GE
Boeing 737 -8AS 33813 1617 2-GATE Tokyo Century Aviation Capital ferried 08-09oct21 UTP-KHV-ANC-DHN, for freighter cconversion ex HS-TSS
Boeing 737 -8EH(F) 34267 2311 9M- Kargo Express at TNA11oct21, N-reg, full cs prior delivery ex N248GE
Boeing 737 -8AS(F) 35553 2279 OE-IWF ASL Airlines Belgium delivery 12oct21 TNA-OVB-OSR-SNN, for paint ex EI-DPX
Boeing 757 -204 28836 861 N28836 AerCap ferried 07oct21 MZJ-HNL prior freighter conversion ex G-BYAY
Boeing 757 -28A(F) 33099 1028 B-220Z SF Airlines delivery 08oct21 CTU-SZX ex N202DP
Boeing 767 -333 25586 599 N898CU Cargo Aircraft Management delivery 07oct21 MZJ-ILN, prior freigther conversion ex C-FMWV
Boeing 767 -316 41996 1052 PT-MOE Latam Brasil ferried 11oct21 SCL-BRO prior freighter conversion ex CC-BDO
Boeing 777 -212 28532 407 N822KW Eastern Airlines Cargoo in full cs at MCI 06oct21 after paint ex VP-BDR
Source: https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb. ... av4&page=4


Another massive update with Airbus conversions conspicuously absent. I figured with several companies offering the A321 conversion that output would be much higher.

I guess the call between Boeing and Airbus is the latter's airframes are better in hauling passengers or in parts, not really optimal for hauling cargo. Especially now that A321ceo/neo will be more in demand post pandemic era doing short regional/international flight. To date only 27 A321ceo have been scrapped, mostly were really early airframes that could have reach their cycle. Boeing was few decades ahead of Airbus when they were one of the three dominant players (the other two being Douglas and Lockheed) in 1970s-1990s even up till early 2000s, selling bucketloads of B737Classics, and NG, which comes in handy now for freighter conversions.
 
CX747
Posts: 6700
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:11 am

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
LATAM B767-316ER CC-CXE MSN 35696/ Line 968 is now heading to Singapore for conversion

https://twitter.com/JTTsteve/status/1448054608136482818

On the fleet movement update:
Boeing 737 -8F2(F) 29788 791 TF-BBP BlueBird Nordic at KUN 10oct21 with full tail cs & titl prior delivery ex LY-FBA
Boeing 737 -8Q8 30694 1863 HL8295 Jeju Air ferried 07oct2 GMP-TSN, for freighter cnversion ex VT-SJG
Boeing 737 -804 32904 1302 OY-JZL ASL Airlines Belgium ferried 01/09-11oct21 CPH-QLA-OVB prior freighter conversion, reg N329BB res ex SE-DZV
Boeing 737 -8AS(F) 33718 1311 VQ-BFP Atran delivery 11-12oct21 PVG-ICN-NQZ ex N242GE
Boeing 737 -8AS 33813 1617 2-GATE Tokyo Century Aviation Capital ferried 08-09oct21 UTP-KHV-ANC-DHN, for freighter cconversion ex HS-TSS
Boeing 737 -8EH(F) 34267 2311 9M- Kargo Express at TNA11oct21, N-reg, full cs prior delivery ex N248GE
Boeing 737 -8AS(F) 35553 2279 OE-IWF ASL Airlines Belgium delivery 12oct21 TNA-OVB-OSR-SNN, for paint ex EI-DPX
Boeing 757 -204 28836 861 N28836 AerCap ferried 07oct21 MZJ-HNL prior freighter conversion ex G-BYAY
Boeing 757 -28A(F) 33099 1028 B-220Z SF Airlines delivery 08oct21 CTU-SZX ex N202DP
Boeing 767 -333 25586 599 N898CU Cargo Aircraft Management delivery 07oct21 MZJ-ILN, prior freigther conversion ex C-FMWV
Boeing 767 -316 41996 1052 PT-MOE Latam Brasil ferried 11oct21 SCL-BRO prior freighter conversion ex CC-BDO
Boeing 777 -212 28532 407 N822KW Eastern Airlines Cargoo in full cs at MCI 06oct21 after paint ex VP-BDR
Source: https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb. ... av4&page=4


Another massive update with Airbus conversions conspicuously absent. I figured with several companies offering the A321 conversion that output would be much higher.

I guess the call between Boeing and Airbus is the latter's airframes are better in hauling passengers or in parts, not really optimal for hauling cargo. Especially now that A321ceo/neo will be more in demand post pandemic era doing short regional/international flight. To date only 27 A321ceo have been scrapped, mostly were really early airframes that could have reach their cycle. Boeing was few decades ahead of Airbus when they were one of the three dominant players (the other two being Douglas and Lockheed) in 1970s-1990s even up till early 2000s, selling bucketloads of B737Classics, and NG, which comes in handy now for freighter conversions.


To a certain degree, Airbus didn't ever truly focus on the freighter aspect of the industry. Even when they did have some concentrated efforts A300/310, it didn't meet with as much success as other manufacturer's offerings. The upcoming potential 777XF vs A350F will be interesting to watch.

Your posts do, show a current, cut through the "nonsense" and talk numbers ability. The 737/767 programs right now are just gangbusters. I agree with Spacepope on the A32XP2F programs. Something is just not adding up. 737s are in hot, hot demand AND 2 additional 757 lines are being set up. Let me repeat that, 2 new 757P2F lines are being setup. We are seeing more action on 757s than A32XP2Fs.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. The 757 is a marvelous aircraft. I've never heard anyone that flew it say a bad thing about it or leave it due to dislike. The fact the same can not be said for either the 737 or A32X family shows you the respect that bird gets.
 
jeffrey0032j
Posts: 1079
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:11 pm

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:31 am

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
LATAM B767-316ER CC-CXE MSN 35696/ Line 968 is now heading to Singapore for conversion

https://twitter.com/JTTsteve/status/1448054608136482818

On the fleet movement update:
Boeing 737 -8F2(F) 29788 791 TF-BBP BlueBird Nordic at KUN 10oct21 with full tail cs & titl prior delivery ex LY-FBA
Boeing 737 -8Q8 30694 1863 HL8295 Jeju Air ferried 07oct2 GMP-TSN, for freighter cnversion ex VT-SJG
Boeing 737 -804 32904 1302 OY-JZL ASL Airlines Belgium ferried 01/09-11oct21 CPH-QLA-OVB prior freighter conversion, reg N329BB res ex SE-DZV
Boeing 737 -8AS(F) 33718 1311 VQ-BFP Atran delivery 11-12oct21 PVG-ICN-NQZ ex N242GE
Boeing 737 -8AS 33813 1617 2-GATE Tokyo Century Aviation Capital ferried 08-09oct21 UTP-KHV-ANC-DHN, for freighter cconversion ex HS-TSS
Boeing 737 -8EH(F) 34267 2311 9M- Kargo Express at TNA11oct21, N-reg, full cs prior delivery ex N248GE
Boeing 737 -8AS(F) 35553 2279 OE-IWF ASL Airlines Belgium delivery 12oct21 TNA-OVB-OSR-SNN, for paint ex EI-DPX
Boeing 757 -204 28836 861 N28836 AerCap ferried 07oct21 MZJ-HNL prior freighter conversion ex G-BYAY
Boeing 757 -28A(F) 33099 1028 B-220Z SF Airlines delivery 08oct21 CTU-SZX ex N202DP
Boeing 767 -333 25586 599 N898CU Cargo Aircraft Management delivery 07oct21 MZJ-ILN, prior freigther conversion ex C-FMWV
Boeing 767 -316 41996 1052 PT-MOE Latam Brasil ferried 11oct21 SCL-BRO prior freighter conversion ex CC-BDO
Boeing 777 -212 28532 407 N822KW Eastern Airlines Cargoo in full cs at MCI 06oct21 after paint ex VP-BDR
Source: https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb. ... av4&page=4


Another massive update with Airbus conversions conspicuously absent. I figured with several companies offering the A321 conversion that output would be much higher.

I guess the call between Boeing and Airbus is the latter's airframes are better in hauling passengers or in parts, not really optimal for hauling cargo. Especially now that A321ceo/neo will be more in demand post pandemic era doing short regional/international flight. To date only 27 A321ceo have been scrapped, mostly were really early airframes that could have reach their cycle. Boeing was few decades ahead of Airbus when they were one of the three dominant players (the other two being Douglas and Lockheed) in 1970s-1990s even up till early 2000s, selling bucketloads of B737Classics, and NG, which comes in handy now for freighter conversions.

When Boeing design planes, they design it with a cargo variant or conversion in mind. This is the reason why the 787 has a provision in the cabling layout for a cargo door, so that if and when a cargo conversion is launched (whether Boeing BCF or third party eg. IAI), it will be more straightforward (ie cheaper) than having to reengineer that altogether.
 
aristoenigma
Posts: 222
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:28 pm

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:24 am

It looks like Saudia sold their two stored 748 freighters to AirBridgeCargo per Planespotters:

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/AirBridgeCargo
 
wjcandee
Posts: 10953
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:47 am

aristoenigma wrote:
It looks like Saudia sold their two stored 748 freighters to AirBridgeCargo per Planespotters:

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/AirBridgeCargo


Awesome! Somebody was willing to pay the big $$$ they wanted just to get that lift. Wonder how fast they'll be in service. They've been sitting almost 2 years.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 10953
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:40 am

Did I miss a post, or did nobody notice that National's sixth 747-400 freighter, N936CA, went into service today? Woo-hoo! I was kind of confused when I typed in her tail number just now and saw her in the air.

This former Global Supertanker, in a snazzy red-and-gold livery, flew from MCO today (10/13/21) to SUU, and she's now headed West from there off the California coast to destinations unknown on a Camber flight. (military) https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N936CA
 
DLNZ
Posts: 168
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:58 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:51 am

wjcandee wrote:
Did I miss a post, or did nobody notice that National's sixth 747-400 freighter, N936CA, went into service today? Woo-hoo! I was kind of confused when I typed in her tail number just now and saw her in the air.

This former Global Supertanker, in a snazzy red-and-gold livery, flew from MCO today (10/13/21) to SUU, and she's now headed West from there off the California coast to destinations unknown on a Camber flight. (military) https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N936CA


You didn't, it's been on the tip of my tongue all day but haven't had a minute to post. Fantastic to see, she looks stunning. She stopped in at SUU (Fairfield) and is now off to HNL/HIK. I would bet she will then cross the Pacific to Guam or Okinawa. Great to see, and LinkedIn tells me that National Cargo (the freight forwarding arm) celebrated their 30th anniversary this week, so a nice milestone.
 
DLNZ
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:23 am

wjcandee wrote:
DLNZ wrote:
In WGN news, N411SN which was the ANC diversion on 8/27 has lit up just now, so perhaps she is fixed, or at least flyable, and soon to be on the move.


That would be a good sign. 581JN is still stuck there as well.

I agree that National's 744s seem to be running very-reliably. Obviously, there's a ton of military and commercial business for them, and they're keeping them moving. Seems like the National and VT-Aero teams at SAT did a great job of readying them for reliable service.

Meanwhile, Sky Lease's N903AR has been at SBD for a couple of days. That's as long as it has stayed on the ground for a while. Presumably, she's getting some light work done at Unical (or maybe Certified, but I think they have previously had some work done at Unical).


Quick update to the above, both machines still at ANC. What a shame. I'm sure their customers aren't pleased, or else they are just leaving a lot of business on the table for others. Shame as I sense that many of us just want them to do well. I also read this week that VT Aero are doing A321 P2F conversions, unsure if that is new news, as I haven't followed the narrowbody stuff as closely as I should.

In better news, TF-AAJ continues to enjoy her new lease on life, running strongly on TPAC hauling boxes out of Vietnam alongside Longtail's VQ-BZV. Two nice ships I enjoy following. Nothing has exited GMF Aero Asia for a while now, so some can't be far off.
 
RoyalBrunei757
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:26 am

Thanks wjcandee and DLNZ for the update. Great to see some more Queens flying in the skies.

I really like the energy here in this freighter thread! So much positive energy than the usual A vs. B vs. C argument! LOL

Some updates from cargofacts website:
1. Sine Draco inducts third A321 for conversion: MSN 963 from AtlasGlobal
2. Bluebird Nordic takes first of twenty-five 737-800Fs: MSN 29788 (ex-Turkish Airlines) -> I think Bluebird Nordic is taking mostly ex-TK Group airframes
3. SF Airlines taken delivery of 37th B757-200F: MSN 33099 (ex-TUI Airways). They have another MSN 28836 G-BYAY now waiting at HNL for conversion
4. DHL to have youngest 767 and A330 conversion: MSN 1477 (ex-Hi Fly) and MSN 40592 and MSN 41746 (both ex-LATAM)
5. NordStar to become Russia’s third 737-800BCF operator: leasing two B737-800BCF from third party (unidentified for now)
6. iAero prepares to add 737-800F pair: both are from BlackRock, currently at DHN. MSN 29916 (ex-Anadolu Jet) and one of these three:
- MSN 30704 (ex-Regent Airways)
- MSN 30671(ex-Aeromexico)
- MSN 29040 (ex-Ukraine International Airlines)
 
RoyalBrunei757
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:21 am

Challenge Group to expand fleet with new types

https://www.scramble.nl/civil-news/chal ... FBsjyvmxxY

"The Group signed an Memorandum of Understanding with IAI for four B767-300ERBDSFs and four B777-300ERSFs. Conversion of the first B767 for Challenge is due to begin in 2022 and the first B777 in 2025."
 
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:15 pm

wjcandee wrote:
aristoenigma wrote:
It looks like Saudia sold their two stored 748 freighters to AirBridgeCargo per Planespotters:

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/AirBridgeCargo


Awesome! Somebody was willing to pay the big $$$ they wanted just to get that lift. Wonder how fast they'll be in service. They've been sitting almost 2 years.


Both airframes have (just) past their 8 years threshold fot the first D-check, so a HMV, incl. all due AD's.
HZ-AI3, delivered at 23 Mar 2013
HZ-AI4, delivered at 27 Jun 2013
 
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:28 pm

CX747 wrote:
Your posts do, show a current, cut through the "nonsense" and talk numbers ability. The 737/767 programs right now are just gangbusters. I agree with Spacepope on the A32XP2F programs. Something is just not adding up. 737s are in hot, hot demand AND 2 additional 757 lines are being set up. Let me repeat that, 2 new 757P2F lines are being setup. We are seeing more action on 757s than A32XP2Fs.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. The 757 is a marvelous aircraft. I've never heard anyone that flew it say a bad thing about it or leave it due to dislike. The fact the same can not be said for either the 737 or A32X family shows you the respect that bird gets.


This is more of what I am getting at. Airbus products have multiple conversion lines already up and running for A330 and A32X freighters and the demand seems to be there for them right now. The output seems to be painfully slow though, with fewer than a half dozen A321F in service so far.
 
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:14 pm

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
6. iAero prepares to add 737-800F pair: both are from BlackRock, currently at DHN. MSN 29916 (ex-Anadolu Jet) and one of these three:
- MSN 30704 (ex-Regent Airways)
- MSN 30671(ex-Aeromexico)
- MSN 29040 (ex-Ukraine International Airlines)



I'd bet a beer that the other iAero frame will be MSN 30671. It's REG'd at N858AM, and is a former AM sister-ship to N859AM which is already in iAero possession. Plus they would share the same linage of conversion at MIA with pre-delivery work done at DHN.
 
RoyalBrunei757
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:14 pm

747classic wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
aristoenigma wrote:
It looks like Saudia sold their two stored 748 freighters to AirBridgeCargo per Planespotters:

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/AirBridgeCargo


Awesome! Somebody was willing to pay the big $$$ they wanted just to get that lift. Wonder how fast they'll be in service. They've been sitting almost 2 years.


Both airframes have (just) past their 8 years threshold fot the first D-check, so a HMV, incl. all due AD's.
HZ-AI3, delivered at 23 Mar 2013
HZ-AI4, delivered at 27 Jun 2013

Both are also ex-Atlas Air ntu, during their service with Saudia they were also often in periodic storage. These who birds have lots of hours left, might be able to fly another 30 years easily!
 
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:46 pm

Spacepope wrote:
CX747 wrote:
Your posts do, show a current, cut through the "nonsense" and talk numbers ability. The 737/767 programs right now are just gangbusters. I agree with Spacepope on the A32XP2F programs. Something is just not adding up. 737s are in hot, hot demand AND 2 additional 757 lines are being set up. Let me repeat that, 2 new 757P2F lines are being setup. We are seeing more action on 757s than A32XP2Fs.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. The 757 is a marvelous aircraft. I've never heard anyone that flew it say a bad thing about it or leave it due to dislike. The fact the same can not be said for either the 737 or A32X family shows you the respect that bird gets.


This is more of what I am getting at. Airbus products have multiple conversion lines already up and running for A330 and A32X freighters and the demand seems to be there for them right now. The output seems to be painfully slow though, with fewer than a half dozen A321F in service so far.


It's kinda expected for a program that only delivered the first conversion a year ago. And A321 conversions likely won't ever reach the volume that 738 has right now just cause of the feedstock availabilities, as airlines still hang on to their 20+ years old A321s like American does. The ramp up is happening though, on the ST side:
1199, 1408, 815, 3504 are being worked on at XSP/QPG. 2912 and 2342 for Smartlynx are under conversion at St Enginnering Guangzhou.

On the Precision side:
1204 is nearly done at Avocet at SFB. 775 and 1972 for CAM are getting worked on at Pemco at TPA. 1438 and 1953 for GlobalX will enter Precision's new line at Lake City in 2 months.
 
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:05 pm

On another note, first 737-800 B-221L for JD Express has been converted by STAECO in Jinan and was painted there in full colors (Eerowhite with red tail). Will be operated based at NTG.
 
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:06 am

CX747 wrote:
The MD-80, 737 Classic, 737NG and 757 are voraciously sought after.


Who's buying MD-80 freighter conversions right now? USA Jet, Aeronaves TSM, others? Reading this thread I get some sense of the demand for the other three types you mention, but less so the MD-80.
 
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:10 am

wjcandee wrote:
Did I miss a post, or did nobody notice that National's sixth 747-400 freighter, N936CA, went into service today? Woo-hoo! I was kind of confused when I typed in her tail number just now and saw her in the air.

This former Global Supertanker, in a snazzy red-and-gold livery, flew from MCO today (10/13/21) to SUU, and she's now headed West from there off the California coast to destinations unknown on a Camber flight. (military) https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N936CA


Congrats to N936CA for its first trans-Pacific crossing in quite some time. She is now departing South out of The Land of The Rising Sun, at 38k and 550.
 
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:22 am

Newark727 wrote:
CX747 wrote:
The MD-80, 737 Classic, 737NG and 757 are voraciously sought after.


Who's buying MD-80 freighter conversions right now? USA Jet, Aeronaves TSM, others? Reading this thread I get some sense of the demand for the other three types you mention, but less so the MD-80.


If my chart is correct for AEI, 2 conversions are underway and 6 more orders presently await their conversion line. No where near the 737/757 but still clocking in for a much "older" jet.
 
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:48 am

With all the talk the last few days about types, I wanted to check that this is an accurate list for capacities. I know there is a little apples to oranges with 88vs96 and heights, but every caveat would get us to an incomparable list. The only one I really specified as small pallets was the CRJ.

Can y’all confirm my understanding and suggest any edits or additions?

C408-3LD3
ATR72-5 pallets or 7LD3
CRJ2-8 small pallets
MD80-8 pallets
B721-8 pallets
B733-8 or 9 pallets
B734-10 pallets
A320-10 pallets-7LD3/45
B722-11 pallets
B738-10.5 or 11.5 pallets
A321-13.5 or 14 pallets-10LD3/45
B752-14 or 15 pallets
DC8-18 pallets
B762-19 pallets-22LD2
A306-15 or 21 pallets-23LD3
MD10-22 pallets-26LD3
A332-22 or 23 pallets-26LD3
B763-24 pallets-30LD2
MD11-26 pallets-32LD3
A333-26 or 27 pallets-32LD3
B77F-37 pallets
B742-39 pallets
B744-39 pallets
B748-46 pallets
B77W-47 pallets
 
wjcandee
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:25 am

Eightcone: Great list! Are we taking into account what they can carry in the belly? Like you typically bulk-load a 757 below, but the A321 can take cans. Stuff like that. And the 763 takes a goodly amount of stuff in the lower hold. Same for the 747s. Maybe that's in there.
 
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:36 am

Fleet movement over the the past three days October 15, 2021

Boeing 737 -86N 36804 3374 M-ABOL BBAM Aircraft Leasing ferried 14oct21 TNN-CJU-TNA, for freighter conversion ex PK-GFE
Boeing 737 -84P 36781 3278 N381AR AerCap ferried 13oct21 GYR-CWF prior delivery to? ex 2-AERH
Boeing 737 -86N 35212 2277 N315SL ICBC Financial Leasing ferried 14-15oct21 KUN-ALA-TNA, for freighter conversion ex 5R-EBA
Boeing 737 -7K2(F) 34170 1701 A9C-SJW Texel Air first in svc 06oct21 BAH-ADJ-BAH ex N732CE
Boeing 737 -86N(F) 32687 2229 B-221L JD Airlines in full cs at TNA 14oct21 prior delivery ex N251GE
Boeing 757 -23N 30886 945 N204UW Bank of Utah ferried 12oct21 ROW-ABQ ex N643UW
Boeing 767 -281(F) 23146 121 SP-MRE Sky Taxi first in sc 15oct21 WAW-LWO-HAM ex N706AX
Boeing 757 -2G5 30394 922 G-OOBP TUI Airways ferried 15oct21 BHX-DGX prior freighter conversion, for Swiftair group ex HB-IHS
Boeing 777 F 67031 1704 B-16787 Eva Air delivery 14oct21 PAE-TPE
Source: https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb. ... av4&page=4
 
wjcandee
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:15 am

Nice list, RoyalBrunei757!

On the Sky Taxi 767 going in service...interesting. We knew that CAM was going to lease a second one to them. What appears to have happened is that DHX-operated A9C-DHJ flew to WAW at the end of February, and I guess was then transferred from a lease by CAM to DHX to a lease by CAM to Sky Taxi, without passing through ILN or TPA. Seven months is a long time on the ground, but that appears to be what happened.

Also, there's a typo because this frame used to be N796AX before it was leased to DHX. No big deal; just wanted to make it accurate because the stated tail number threw me at first.

Saw a photo of it from yesterday, and it's still in DHL colors, with an SP-MRE tail number.
 
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:17 am

Please post respectfully and if the post is A vs. B, it will be deleted.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:10 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Please post respectfully and if the post is A vs. B, it will be deleted.


Participants in this forum are generally quite-respectful of each other. I guess I missed the posts of concern, because I haven't seen one on here or in the Amazon thread in months that would give rise to such an admonition.
 
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:22 pm

There is no A vs B in this thread, just the Mods looking for something to do IMHO.
This is a very well self moderated thread of quality content from all.
No need for Mods to get involved what so ever.
 
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:00 pm

It's the mod's prerogative to be as uneven in enforcement of rules in any thread they see fit. It is what it is. It is what it is, we just gotta make sure we're comparing the conversion programs of various manufacturers aircraft instead of the relative successes of those cargo conversions.

In any case, this may cross the line since it happened to a DHL 763, but we have had our first CF-6 failure on the cargo fleet of this early peak on 763 A9C-DHU. https://avherald.com/h?article=4eeac62e&opt=0 Former AA, converted and entered service just this past July. I'm interested in how increased utilization fleetwide for nearly 2 years will affect reliability (hopefully not safety) as we are now entering the busy season, especially with operators that seem to be more frugal with their engine sourcing options. This is also compounded with additional airframes in service further increasing demand for green time.
 
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:04 pm

TUGMASTER wrote:
There is no A vs B in this thread, just the Mods looking for something to do IMHO.
This is a very well self moderated thread of quality content from all.
No need for Mods to get involved what so ever.


There may have been some posts that caught the Mods' attention that have been deleted. There has necessarily been some discussion about the progress that particular aircraft have made in cargo conversion, and the suitability and availability of some frames over others for that conversion, as well as discussion of the ever-evolving capacity for conversion of one frame over another. And some about how great the 757 is as a freighter (which it is). I don't personally view this as "A vs B" discussion as much as a discussion of the likelihood of ultimate market share of any particular frame in the cargo conversion marketplace, which I think is legit.

Perhaps this is just a prophylactic warning given how many threads on a.net devolve into silliness, and when they see anything trending towards A vs B they post a friendly warning. I agree that virtually-all of us who post here are careful to respect that this thread is a serious and friendly one. But the Mods will help in the event that people jump on here and post things that break the rules. And as with other "law enforcement", the less we do to draw their attention (except as a model of how a thread should run!!), the better!!

Have a great Friday, everyone!
Last edited by wjcandee on Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:12 pm

Spacepope wrote:
We have had our first CF-6 failure on the cargo fleet of this early peak on 763 A9C-DHU. https://avherald.com/h?article=4eeac62e&opt=0 Former AA, converted and entered service just this past July. I'm interested in how increased utilization fleetwide for nearly 2 years will affect reliability (hopefully not safety) as we are now entering the busy season, especially with operators that seem to be more frugal with their engine sourcing options. This is also compounded with additional airframes in service further increasing demand for green time.


This is interesting. The frame is formerly N346AN, which was one of the newest AA 763s. Converted at QPG into a BCF by the cargo integrator; not one leased from CAM. DHX, the operator, appears to be replacing CAM-leased 767-200s with a number of cargo-integrator owned 767-300s. This is an engine issue, apparently, but it's interesting that an issue would pop up with a 3-months-since-conversion BCF when the 762SFs were soldiering along until they started moving out, in this case back to ILN and also one to Sky Taxi.
 
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:18 pm

eightcone wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
6. iAero prepares to add 737-800F pair: both are from BlackRock, currently at DHN. MSN 29916 (ex-Anadolu Jet) and one of these three:
- MSN 30704 (ex-Regent Airways)
- MSN 30671(ex-Aeromexico)
- MSN 29040 (ex-Ukraine International Airlines)



I'd bet a beer that the other iAero frame will be MSN 30671. It's REG'd at N858AM, and is a former AM sister-ship to N859AM which is already in iAero possession. Plus they would share the same linage of conversion at MIA with pre-delivery work done at DHN.


N916BR was handed over to Swift yesterday (Thursday).
 
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747classic
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:57 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
We have had our first CF-6 failure on the cargo fleet of this early peak on 763 A9C-DHU. https://avherald.com/h?article=4eeac62e&opt=0 Former AA, converted and entered service just this past July. I'm interested in how increased utilization fleetwide for nearly 2 years will affect reliability (hopefully not safety) as we are now entering the busy season, especially with operators that seem to be more frugal with their engine sourcing options. This is also compounded with additional airframes in service further increasing demand for green time.


This is interesting. The frame is formerly N346AN, which was one of the newest AA 763s. Converted at QPG into a BCF by the cargo integrator; not one leased from CAM. DHX, the operator, appears to be replacing CAM-leased 767-200s with a number of cargo-integrator owned 767-300s. This is an engine issue, apparently, but it's interesting that an issue would pop up with a 3-months-since-conversion BCF when the 762SFs were soldiering along until they started moving out, in this case back to ILN and also one to Sky Taxi.


Engine issues can always pop up (the cause is not known yet) and the engine involved could be an older replacement engine on a relative new airframe.
 
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:53 pm

Last LH MD-11F D-ALCC making a low pass at FRA after its final flight from JFK operating as LH8161 on Oct-15:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnJIaLDanrg
 
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:42 pm

747classic wrote:
Engine issues can always pop up (the cause is not known yet) and the engine involved could be an older replacement engine on a relative new airframe.


Of course you are correct. Reading the avherald article, this could have resulted from an exogenous cause, like FOD on the runway or a bird strike.

And apparently the high-utilization of GEs these days, combined with the practice of swapping out engines to "use up green time", can certainly contribute to some level of reliability reduction.

As I understand it, an expensive full-overhaul of a CF6 has a lifespan that exceeds the expected remaining useful life of many airframes. As frames with engines on them will now certainly retire before the lifetime of a fully-overhauled engine, a little dance is taking place to use up that green time. The idea is that although SOME (and more and more) CF6-fitted frames are being converted, a lot of aircraft that are being retired will not be converted, and those aircraft have engines on them with remaining hours that have value to people.

However, as we see more aircraft like 763s converted such that they now have another 20 years of expected life on them, one might wonder whether, with respect to the newly-converted aircraft, for some high-reliability-required carriers, it would make sense to bring them out of conversion with newly-overhauled engines mounted.

One could then "arbitrage" the remaining green time on the engines that the frame came with by leasing those engines to others. So I get newly-overhauled engines on my newly-converted freighter, paid for in part by my leasing or selling the engines (or the time remaining on them) to others.

I guess the "green time squeeze" hasn't brought us to that point, yet, because nobody wants to be left standing when the music stops.
 
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:06 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Of course you are correct. Reading the avherald article, this could have resulted from an exogenous cause, like FOD on the runway or a bird strike.

And apparently the high-utilization of GEs these days, combined with the practice of swapping out engines to "use up green time", can certainly contribute to some level of reliability reduction.

As I understand it, an expensive full-overhaul of a CF6 has a lifespan that exceeds the expected remaining useful life of many airframes. As frames with engines on them will now certainly retire before the lifetime of a fully-overhauled engine, a little dance is taking place to use up that green time. The idea is that although SOME (and more and more) CF6-fitted frames are being converted, a lot of aircraft that are being retired will not be converted, and those aircraft have engines on them with remaining hours that have value to people.

However, as we see more aircraft like 763s converted such that they now have another 20 years of expected life on them, one might wonder whether, with respect to the newly-converted aircraft, for some high-reliability-required carriers, it would make sense to bring them out of conversion with newly-overhauled engines mounted.

One could then "arbitrage" the remaining green time on the engines that the frame came with by leasing those engines to others. So I get newly-overhauled engines on my newly-converted freighter, paid for in part by my leasing or selling the engines (or the time remaining on them) to others.

I guess the "green time squeeze" hasn't brought us to that point, yet, because nobody wants to be left standing when the music stops.

Great summary, just a few things I'll add.

I'm not sure the music stops for quite a while. I'd guess the buyer of last resort will end up being FX, since they run 767s with CF6s and they are an "opportunistic buyer" / "bottom feeder" when it comes to buying aging engines. They've bought older airframes off other airlines just to scavenge the engines off them. Need to have FADEC of course, but can imagine there won't be a ton of non-FADEC engines with green time on them for very long.

One issue is as we see fewer overhauls in favor of scavenging, prices on the overhauls go up due to less volume and certain parts get very hard to find and/or expensive. Some overhaul shops may let their certificate lapse due to lack of business. Then the pool of green time engines runs out and you have a double whammy, expensive and rare parts with few shops willing/able to do overhauls. This scenario led to the early death of the MD-90 and its unique IAE engine, and it could happen to CF6 depending on future market dynamics. The good news for CF6 is that the engines are still being made so the supply chain is still intact. Yet at some point there will be "last calls" as the production line winds down. It should make for interesting market dynamics.
 
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:22 pm

WGN9411, Western Global's N411SN just passed overhead, ferrying ANC-SHV in an apparent effort to get repaired.
 
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Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:17 pm

Spacepope wrote:
WGN9411, Western Global's N411SN just passed overhead, ferrying ANC-SHV in an apparent effort to get repaired.


Good luck to her. Glad she's moving after a month and a half on the ground.
 
CX747
Posts: 6700
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:24 am

wjcandee wrote:
TUGMASTER wrote:
There is no A vs B in this thread, just the Mods looking for something to do IMHO.
This is a very well self moderated thread of quality content from all.
No need for Mods to get involved what so ever.


There may have been some posts that caught the Mods' attention that have been deleted. There has necessarily been some discussion about the progress that particular aircraft have made in cargo conversion, and the suitability and availability of some frames over others for that conversion, as well as discussion of the ever-evolving capacity for conversion of one frame over another. And some about how great the 757 is as a freighter (which it is). I don't personally view this as "A vs B" discussion as much as a discussion of the likelihood of ultimate market share of any particular frame in the cargo conversion marketplace, which I think is legit.

Perhaps this is just a prophylactic warning given how many threads on a.net devolve into silliness, and when they see anything trending towards A vs B they post a friendly warning. I agree that virtually-all of us who post here are careful to respect that this thread is a serious and friendly one. But the Mods will help in the event that people jump on here and post things that break the rules. And as with other "law enforcement", the less we do to draw their attention (except as a model of how a thread should run!!), the better!!

Have a great Friday, everyone!


"Two"

I stated in a previous post that I come from a land of harsh debriefs.

I made a post that was deleted and potentially responses to it. I take responsibility for the post and its content. It regarded the A321P2F and the overall P2F market. I enjoy this thread immensely and hope to continue its great conversation.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 10953
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:46 am

CX747 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
TUGMASTER wrote:
There is no A vs B in this thread, just the Mods looking for something to do IMHO.
This is a very well self moderated thread of quality content from all.
No need for Mods to get involved what so ever.


There may have been some posts that caught the Mods' attention that have been deleted. There has necessarily been some discussion about the progress that particular aircraft have made in cargo conversion, and the suitability and availability of some frames over others for that conversion, as well as discussion of the ever-evolving capacity for conversion of one frame over another. And some about how great the 757 is as a freighter (which it is). I don't personally view this as "A vs B" discussion as much as a discussion of the likelihood of ultimate market share of any particular frame in the cargo conversion marketplace, which I think is legit.

Perhaps this is just a prophylactic warning given how many threads on a.net devolve into silliness, and when they see anything trending towards A vs B they post a friendly warning. I agree that virtually-all of us who post here are careful to respect that this thread is a serious and friendly one. But the Mods will help in the event that people jump on here and post things that break the rules. And as with other "law enforcement", the less we do to draw their attention (except as a model of how a thread should run!!), the better!!

Have a great Friday, everyone!


"Two"

I stated in a previous post that I come from a land of harsh debriefs.

I made a post that was deleted and potentially responses to it. I take responsibility for the post and its content. It regarded the A321P2F and the overall P2F market. I enjoy this thread immensely and hope to continue its great conversation.


Oh yeah. I read those and didn't find them even remotely-offensive. And you're a great contributor to this and other threads. A great deal of very-well-reasoned work, lost forever. Makes me sad.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 10953
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:50 am

Revelation wrote:
Great summary, just a few things I'll add.

I'm not sure the music stops for quite a while. I'd guess the buyer of last resort will end up being FX, since they run 767s with CF6s and they are an "opportunistic buyer" / "bottom feeder" when it comes to buying aging engines. They've bought older airframes off other airlines just to scavenge the engines off them. Need to have FADEC of course, but can imagine there won't be a ton of non-FADEC engines with green time on them for very long.

One issue is as we see fewer overhauls in favor of scavenging, prices on the overhauls go up due to less volume and certain parts get very hard to find and/or expensive. Some overhaul shops may let their certificate lapse due to lack of business. Then the pool of green time engines runs out and you have a double whammy, expensive and rare parts with few shops willing/able to do overhauls. This scenario led to the early death of the MD-90 and its unique IAE engine, and it could happen to CF6 depending on future market dynamics. The good news for CF6 is that the engines are still being made so the supply chain is still intact. Yet at some point there will be "last calls" as the production line winds down. It should make for interesting market dynamics.


Thanks for all this! So interesting!
 
CX747
Posts: 6700
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

Re: Air Cargo (non-Amazon/DHL) Thread - 2021

Sat Oct 16, 2021 2:48 am

Focusing on the two resident DC-8Fs of this thread...

OB-2509-OP seems to have last flown into MIA on 10/5/21. Since then, it is believed to be resting on the sunny cargo ramp.

OB-2158-T continues to plug away each day, operating a MIA-MGA-MIA workday on 10/15/21. In the past week or so, the jet has operated sectors from MIA to SAL, SDQ, SAP and BGI.

I haven't been following the two jets as closely as I would like, but is seems OP has been taking more time off than T in the past 30-45 days. That is an interesting role reversal.

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